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Topic: Video of martial arts demonstration...
Message: Posted by: DJP (Jan 7, 2007 11:44AM)
Hi guys,

Your thoughts on this video:

http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/qigong-with-qiu-fuyi-evening-news/

It has hit the headlines, anyone know much about this?

Best

David
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 11:49AM)
A bit overdone, especially with the bowl of water.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Jan 7, 2007 11:50AM)
I really enjoyed the video.

-Jim

Creator of
G.O.D.

Available in the late spring.
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Jan 7, 2007 11:55AM)
I really liked the bit with the bricks. but I think the bowl moved way to much

overall a pretty cool vid
Message: Posted by: Malchat (Jan 7, 2007 11:58AM)
I've been telling you guys, tai-chi and chi-qong is full of killer PK ideas waiting to be mined.

Somebody should compile [i]Sifu Mantra[/i]. ;)
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 12:04PM)
One was done in the late 1970s in Inside Karate magazine.

During the 70's 80's and early 90's I participated in similar demonstrations thoughout Hong Kong, the US, Japan, Korea, and the Phillipines. My specialty was the one and 2 inch punch and the contact palm strike, as well as Iron Palm technique. All legit!

Tony
Message: Posted by: Malchat (Jan 7, 2007 12:07PM)
Tony: respect.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 12:14PM)
Matt:

Thank you.

The Inside Karate issue concentrated on psudo-hypnotic stunts, there was the sword and watermellon demonstration, cinder block and sledge hammer, bed of nails, the spear to the neck, some breaking techniques, all designed as an expose on frauds in the martial arts community. After that issue was published, the number of similar demonstrations exploded across the US. I cannot provide more detail on the issue as it has been about 30 years since I've seen it.

There is currently a street performer using this type of material as his act, I've never seen him live, but by the video footage, he is very impressive. I believe he goes my the name Sifu Lee. If you get a chance to see him, do.

Tony
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jan 7, 2007 12:15PM)
Ya the bowl of water was a bit to much, but I enjoyed watching that. Gave me a new idea. ;)
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 7, 2007 04:02PM)
Standards, lets see under the table...

I have been using Qi GONG in my show for years. I love the iron shirt demonstrations. Since hitting the gym, I have been allowing the audience to kick and punch me in the abs as hard as they'd like. It's kind of houdini meets bruce lee. I also perform strength sapping demonstrations, pyro kinesis, and other chi kung like spectacles...

But like Jack, theres no trick to it. Im the real deal. ;-)
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 7, 2007 04:32PM)
Forgot to post this. Do a search for qigong on youtube and you'll get a lot of these.
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Jan 7, 2007 04:58PM)
The bowl moves so much because of the inertia of the water (is that proper english?!)

Anyways... really nice video!
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 06:20PM)
Yes, but it came to an almost complete stop at the half way point, then excellerated.
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Jan 7, 2007 06:49PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-07 19:20, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Yes, but it came to an almost complete stop at the half way point, then excellerated.
[/quote]

Yes, I know what you mean. The immediate stop looked very fake.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 7, 2007 07:03PM)
I just read the quote on that page: "Have you ever seen an old man move a brick from 4 feet away, without touching it? Or slide a butcher knife across his belly without getting cut?"

Uh how about a young fit man move a shaprie from 12 feet away, cause a book to fall over, pens to move, and how about a razor sharp samurai sword acriss the abdomen? Then yes ive seen it...
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 07:07PM)
The sword and knife demos, seen them, done them.
The "PK" stuff, I've seen limited demonstrations, nothing like this, that was real.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 7, 2007 07:12PM)
You must have missed my salem mass. show, otherwise youd be a convert.
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 7, 2007 07:22PM)
A lot of this is explained in the two volume books entitled, "Skills of the Vagabonds." Here is a link to the 2 volumes http://www.amazon.com/Skills-Vagabonds-Ting-Leung/dp/9627284173

Hope this helps for anyone who is looking for material on this subject.
-Kyle.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 7, 2007 07:42PM)
I studied under Leung Ting when I was in Hong Kong.
So I'm sure it is a good book.

Tony
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 7, 2007 08:07PM)
I thoroughly enjoyed it. While a lot of the material is far too dangerous to attempt to replicate the overall information is the book is excellent. Tony you are lucky to have had the opportunity to study under someone with such a vast knowledge of the subject.

-Kyle
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 7, 2007 08:32PM)
I have attempted 99% and am working on that 15 now. ;-)

SSHHH! Its a secret!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Jan 8, 2007 12:36AM)
Tony:

What did you study under Dr. Ting? WingTsun Kung Fu? Simulated superhuman martial arts feats? or the "real deal" feats?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 8, 2007 06:24AM)
Arnon:

I spent a year studying Wing Chun.

Tony
Message: Posted by: ceeswing (Jan 8, 2007 09:11AM)
The Video is impressing (is it real?) but has noting to do with Wing Chun.

Regards
Cornelius
France
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 8, 2007 12:25PM)
No, it did not. Not sure where you got the idea that it might.
Message: Posted by: GeorgeG (Jan 8, 2007 12:47PM)
I am currently studying Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu (grandmaster is William Cheung who introduced Bruce Lee to the art back in the 1950's). I agree that video is impressive "magic" with a martial art overtone. This isn't any Kung Fu I know of. I thought they only did this kind of stuff in those Hong Kong movies.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 8, 2007 12:50PM)
George:

It is supposed to be a demonstration of Chi Kung.

Tony
Message: Posted by: GeorgeG (Jan 8, 2007 01:02PM)
Thanks Tony. Chi is a vital teaching in Wing Chun, as is in many kung fu style. As you know it deals with that internal force that does not dissipate with age and allows a practioner skills beyond the frailty of our physical bodies. Whether this reaches out to such an external force as portrayed in the video...I am not too sure. Could be called Jedi Kung ;)
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jan 8, 2007 01:28PM)
What is portrayed in the video is trickery and nothing to do with 'chi'.
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jan 8, 2007 01:54PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-08 14:28, The Doctor wrote:
What is portrayed in the video is trickery and nothing to do with 'chi'.
[/quote]
No you are wrong. I am everywhere. ;)
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 8, 2007 03:17PM)
LOL Chi...

Tony, I take back all those mean things I said about you.

I am starting a new philosophy religion and spioritualistic martial arts movement called psionix it will encompass all the stunts above with out having to be old or drinking weird kool aid.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 8, 2007 03:49PM)
Scott:

You are one of the reasons I enjoy coming here. :)

Pass the Koolaide. :drinkup:
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 8, 2007 10:56PM)
Anyone got any ideas how the newspaper fire portion of the video was done?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZBfEZLbNhI&mode=related&search=
Message: Posted by: Al Straker (Jan 8, 2007 11:15PM)
Interesting video...

I have been a student of wing chun for 10 years in the linage of William Cheung (who now lives and teaches in Melbourne Australia). My Sifu Ian Protheroe was Cheung's best student and received an official blessing from Cheung to teach Wing Chun in Queensland where I live. He is also one of the the only Australian Sifu to be a full member of the original Hong Kong 'Ving Tsun Athletic Association' and has Authored several books etc.

Protheroe has a saying 'There are no tricks' by which he means that so called CHI PK (no touch) type demonstations are all BS. However he does acknowledge that a subtle yet powerful internal strength and energy can be greatly enhanced and cultivated with CHI development exercises (Chi Kung, Postural aligment, accupuncture, etc).

Cheers,
Al
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 9, 2007 01:22AM)
Kyle, buy an electric touch. I use to light torches off my tongue when I toured with the side show using the old electric chair gizzmo which is basically an et on crack (Super charged step down transformer, negative ion generator).
Message: Posted by: Richie Dagger (Jan 9, 2007 01:41AM)
I've got one of William Cheung's books around here somewhere. I studied WingChun under Augustine Fong for about a year. One of these days I hope to return.
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Jan 9, 2007 06:32AM)
Wow!
I am a JKD student here in Taiwan. This is really exciting to know you guys are martial artists.

We also do the 1 and 2 inch punch, no chi here just applied physics.

Al, William Cheung and Leung Ting are serious rivals. About 20 years ago, they had some serious showdowns for who was the legitimate heir to the Wing Chun legacy.

Both are seriously great martial artists.

My teacher, Sammy Chung, is a really great JKD man. He went to Hong Kong in the 70's and studided with Bruce Lee for a few months and caught the bug hard. Finished his training here in Taiwan and now teaches. His floating punch is devastating. He can actually hit you at a very slow speed and the force will travel into your body coiling like a spring. Another interesting thing about Sammy, he is totally deaf!

Nice to be among Kung Fu Brothers!

James
Message: Posted by: Malchat (Jan 9, 2007 07:12AM)
I've been a FMA/silat guy for the past 10 years. All of my teachers have been very grounded. Nobody ever taught me to stop a machete with the power of my mind. :)

I've had some extremely painful pressure point techniques used on me during live sparring. The other esoteric techniques are wonderful for demonstrations and psychological/spiritual growth (I love watching it) but I've never seen any of it hold up under realistic fighting conditions.

Most of the masters who do these special techniques don't actually [i]need[/i] them to beat you into a pulp. ;)
Message: Posted by: fooksau (Jan 9, 2007 10:21AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-08 07:24, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Arnon:

I spent a year studying Wing Chun.

Tony
[/quote]

Then you would know what my name means. 5-6 years study under Sifu Hawkins Cheung:)
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jan 9, 2007 11:17AM)
William Cheung took a serious pasting from a punk a few years ago. The tape did the rounds of the clubs a while back. He certainly did not look like a serious martial artist in any way, shape or form judging from the pitiful account he gave of himself. The whole Ving Tsun/Wing Chun saga is going to run and run.
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jan 9, 2007 11:20AM)
Reminds me of the Van Dam show when the "master" punches at that bucket of water and makes the water move, or splash, or something. I wish my Chi could do that.
Message: Posted by: GeorgeG (Jan 9, 2007 11:39AM)
I am amaze how this little video has brought out so many Wing Chun aficionados. I was studying under Master Joe Sayah before he returned to Australia. The [url=http://www.wingchuncalifornia.com/]school[/url] is now under Master Alon Peterson. Yep, the whole legit "inheritance" of the art from Yip Man is quite an unresolved issue.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jan 9, 2007 12:39PM)
I've done martial arts over 50 years, and I'm executive director of one of the largest martial arts organizations in the U.S. I trained with a pre WWII Okinawan sensei, Chinese sensei, Korean sensei and American sensei. I've seen many such demonstrations, and done quite a few myself. I've been in magic about as long as well, and consider myself pretty experienced in most forms of illusion. The reality is a lot is simply what it appears to be, illusion. Some is simply principles of physics that are not obvious to most observers. Some involve aspects of human anatomy and physiology which is not well investigated. Some involve psychology. But there are some that cannot be so easily explained. In the way it was presented in the clip, I cannot say whether what was done was illusion or real. But from having seen thousands of such demos, I'd say most of it was illusion, simply based on the nature of how it was being presented. The real demonstrations I've seen of fa-jing, chi-kung, dim-mak, kyusho jutsu etc, simply were just done. The practitioner just did it, no elaborate set up, no show. Plus the situations where I have observed or done breaks done without contact or deeply penetrated in a stack without disturbing the ones above it were simply done, impromptu, no showmanship. Showmanship in martial arts always raises my suspicion. I saw a long kong jin sifu make some bruises disappear off the arms of one of my students before my eyes. The sifu was of the opinion the bruises he was being asked to "heal" were fresh and recent bruises. They were, in fact, very old bruises, as the student has a blood disorder in which she has an extremely low platelet count. Those bruises had been on her arms for years. All he did was pass his hands a few inches over the top of them. No preparation, no apparent exertion of "energy" just passed his hands over them and they in a few seconds faded before our eyes and returned the skin to what should have been its normal healthy appearance. Having worked in the medical field, in psychology, in magic and marital arts I cannot explain that one. The student was a skeptic. She did not believe this "hoodo" would do anything, after all she had tried everything modern medicine has to offer trying to get rid of those bruises (which were quite large, not small fingerprint size). Her physician was not able to explain it either.
So yes there are some things which our science has yet to discover how it is done, and some of what is done in martial arts or its related areas is based in reality, but we do not yet know the actual mechanism by which it happens.
Yet, the orient is long steeped in magic and shamanism, and these "tricks" have been passed down through generations of martial artist. I know a good number of "chi" or "ki" demos done quite regularly which are nothing more than simply application of applied physics, but the observer is not likely to pick up on that. The demonstrators have been taught that this is caused by chi and believe such, they don't realize they are doing a "trick" So there is no fraud in such types of demos. In others, the demonstrator has to know how to set it up, and as such knows that the demo isn't real. How many people watching a martial arts demo have advanced knowledge and experience in martial arts, psychology, medicine, magic and an undergraduate degree in physics? Not many. Thus, it is like the situation of so called psychics who fool scientist. How? Scientists aren't magicians, they don't know what to control or what to look for. Same with many of these martial arts demos. Some are real and we don't at present have an explaination. Others are illusions being presented as martial arts feats. After all the Chinese words Gong Fu or Kung Fu literally mean "earth master", this also could be translated as "doctor" or "sorceror" or "magician" Wu Shu refers to fighting arts, the use of Gong Fu got attached because they were the arts practiced by the "Gong Fu" Elements of illusion are well documented in some of those ancient practices.
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jan 9, 2007 01:00PM)
You really are a fighting priest aren't you? Great post Grasshopper.
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 9, 2007 01:24PM)
His method is if you fail to agree with his religious standpoint he will beat it into you :P Resistance is Futile.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Jan 9, 2007 01:33PM)
If you think he's bad, you should see the nuns!

Tony
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 9, 2007 02:18PM)
I would certainly enjoy that more than you realize :D
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jan 9, 2007 04:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-09 14:00, The Doctor wrote:
You really are a fighting priest aren't you? Great post Grasshopper.
[/quote]

Yes, I suppose you could say that. LOL judge for yourself
http://www.akbba.com
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jan 9, 2007 04:33PM)
Kicking ass in the name of the lord....I love it
Message: Posted by: InvisibleMonkey (Jan 9, 2007 05:10PM)
How old are you Scott Xavier?
As you seem to have been doing EVERYTHING "for years"...
I'm just wondering as you look about 18 maximum.
Message: Posted by: shinobi (Jan 10, 2007 02:17AM)
Your kung fu is obsolete! only ninjas have real ultimate power!
Message: Posted by: Xiqual (Jan 10, 2007 02:27AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-10 03:17, shinobi wrote:
Your kung fu is obsolete! only ninjas have real ultimate power!
[/quote]

A ninja with a sjambok! Interesting idea.
James
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jan 10, 2007 11:54AM)
I don't know about obsolete. I once stepped in Kung Fu, liked to have never got it off my shoes, very obsinate stuff. :)
[quote]
On 2007-01-10 03:17, shinobi wrote:
Your kung fu is obsolete! only ninjas have real ultimate power!
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: cardima (Jan 14, 2007 01:51AM)
Woow I am impressed!!!
is this guy really use the "chi technique" or its a "trick"
anyway it looks real!
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 14, 2007 11:06AM)
It is a trick and I can tell you how its done if you pm me. Best Wishes!
Message: Posted by: MentaThought (Jan 14, 2007 11:22AM)
Whew! Very interested to see all the other mentalism afficionados who are also into the martial arts.

I've been studying Gracie/Brasilian Jiu-jitsu for almost a decade myself.
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 14, 2007 11:42AM)
MentaThought I have studied a similar style to you for the last 16 years. I began in Ryu Kyu Shotokan Karate but soon found out that Karate was fine to fight someone in similar style but not that effective on the street. I then began to study Daito Ryu AikiJujutsu. Not only was it totally effective in real world situations but it has served me very well as a police officer for years. Funny how people who share one interest often find out that they are more similar than they first had thought and later find out that they share many many common interest. Mentalism and Martial Arts...what a combination lol.
Message: Posted by: MentaThought (Jan 14, 2007 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-14 12:42, kyle_freemason wrote:
Funny how people who share one interest often find out that they are more similar than they first had thought and later find out that they share many many common interest. Mentalism and Martial Arts...what a combination lol.
[/quote]

I hear ya!
I figure that if I can't read their minds at least, with my Jiu-jitsu skills, I can choke them.
Message: Posted by: Montethrower (Jan 14, 2007 07:21PM)
This may be a little unrelated...but are there any books on Qi (Ki, Chi) Gong that I could buy or at least look for?? Or do you have to learn in a studio, like other martial arts (Tai Chi, Jeet Kune Do)?? Just wondering, as you all say some of the material could be used for PK demonstration, and the one and two inch punch have got me stunned.

Interested,
Monte
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 14, 2007 08:14PM)
Monte,

Please check out the book, "Skills of the Vagabonds" and " Behind The Incredibles-Skills of the Vagabonds" part two. Both of these books were written Ting Leung who is very well versed on this subject. Both books teach all of the little tricks demonstrated in the Chinese circus and by Shaolin Monks. I think you will be most pleased with both books. The subject of pk is also covered in great detail. Hope this helps!

-Kyle

Oh and by the way MentaThought....like I always say when in doubt choke em out!
Message: Posted by: MentaThought (Jan 14, 2007 09:37PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-14 21:14, kyle_freemason wrote:
Oh and by the way MentaThought....like I always say when in doubt choke em out!
[/quote]

I used to have a bumper sticker from the Gracie Academy bearing that exact saying on one of my vehicles. LOL
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (Jan 14, 2007 09:44PM)
And to think I always thought that was an original saying of mine in law enforcement...perhaps I will just stick with locked cocked loaded ready and devoted since the latter is already taken. :D
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Apr 29, 2009 01:54PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-09 07:32, Xiqual wrote:
Wow!
I am a JKD student here in Taiwan. This is really exciting to know you guys are martial artists.

We also do the 1 and 2 inch punch, no chi here just applied physics.

James
[/quote]

I agree James. I think the thing to bear in mind is that of a belief system, if you believe it is Qi or you believe it is Physics, it still works... no matter what you call it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ6z4bK0nXI
Bri
Message: Posted by: tangle (Apr 30, 2009 03:54PM)
Wow so many pugilists!
I too have trained with william cheung.
I think much of martial arts are themselves an illusion.
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (Apr 30, 2009 03:56PM)
Ok I am coming in late here, I tried to view the video and it does not play it ask's to accept the senders request, can someone explain to me. Thanks dave
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Apr 30, 2009 04:41PM)
Wow, this is like a Wing Tsun reunion. I took seminars from Dr Leung Ting back
in the 90's.
Message: Posted by: Brane (Apr 30, 2009 11:09PM)
Hmmm. All you young, feisty martial arts folks . . . Was it W.C. Field that said, 'Speak loudly and carry a small pistol'?? Or was it me. I forget.
brane
Message: Posted by: Jumbopenny (May 2, 2009 02:54AM)
Tell me if you think this for real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Jumbopenny (May 2, 2009 03:04AM)
If you want the answer watch this. This is a real challenge match with a legit opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBrus&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (May 2, 2009 04:49AM)
The old guy does the same opening move both times and gets nailed the same way both times. Pantomime? Or maybe he does not learn from his mistakes.

[3 to my fellow WC Gung Fu Brothers. You are right there are lots of mentalists interested in Wing Chun. I am a grasshopper of Randy Williams CRCA club.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: The Baldini (May 2, 2009 07:11AM)
It looks like the same fight only from 2 angles.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (May 2, 2009 07:13AM)
The old guy was conned. The young guy was wearing tin foil underwear and vest.
This made his pk abilities useless. I would've thought that was obvious?

I think anyone thinking about making PK or chi the main weapon should check the opponents underwear before committing to a public demonstration.
Message: Posted by: kyle_freemason (May 2, 2009 11:07AM)
"You broked my nose grasshopper AIIIIIIII!"
Message: Posted by: Tom G (May 2, 2009 11:48AM)
It sure seemed like the old man believed in his technique, especially getting into a ring with a non believer. Must be it was only his students that fell down for him.
Message: Posted by: Jumbopenny (May 3, 2009 01:34AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-02 08:11, dave wrote:
It looks like the same fight only from 2 angles.
[/quote]

You're right, it's 2 vids of the same fight from different angles. I found a clearer version, and just added it the post. The first vid showed the priceless expression of the old master so I left it in the post.
Message: Posted by: Jumbopenny (May 3, 2009 02:27AM)
I forgot to mention this. The guy won $5000 for beating the old master. Why didn't I fight him first?! Dam* it!

Here's another one for all us martial artists/mentalists to enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4

and you didn't think Tai Chi masters could really fight.
Message: Posted by: Michael Peterson (May 8, 2009 01:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-03 03:27, Jumbopenny wrote:
I forgot to mention this. The guy won $5000 for beating the old master. Why didn't I fight him first?! Dam* it!

Here's another one for all us martial artists/mentalists to enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4

and you didn't think Tai Chi masters could really fight.
[/quote]

:rotf:

That was good.

Mike
Message: Posted by: hypno_illusionist (May 26, 2009 12:49PM)
Holyyy cowww......!!!!1 is tahii chii real??