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Topic: Drunk, Stoned, or High at Ring Meetings?
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 9, 2007 09:54PM)
Hello, Everyone. I am wondering what would you do if you had a person or persons who was coming to your Ring Meetings under the influence of a substance. You know drunk, stoned, or high? Not just once but a few times a year.

Thanks,

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 9, 2007 10:50PM)
The offending person should be pulled aside by a club officer and put on notice that their behavior is not acceptable at a magic club meeting and will not be tolerated, especially if there are children or teenagers at your meeting.

If they then continue to exhibit their irresponsible behavior, they should be removed from the club. By their continuing to act that way, they are showing total disregard for the club and those who actively participate and they should not be allowed to stay.

One question that I'm curious about is where does your group meet? Are you meeting in a bar or nightclub environment where drinking normally takes place? If so, you might be paying the price for meeting is such a location.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 9, 2007 11:03PM)
Thanks for the reply. Our meeting is held in an Auction House at the Myrtle Beach Indoor Flea Market.
Thanks
Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 9, 2007 11:07PM)
Hi Michael,

I should have realized that. I knew you guys meet there and have for several years.


Take care, Mark.
Message: Posted by: docmagik (Jan 10, 2007 10:12AM)
This is simply unacceptable. I find it in horrendous taste, even practically unthinkable that someone would come to a meeting of a respectable magic organization under the influence of some controlled substance and not offer to share.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 10, 2007 11:33AM)
I think I need to write somthing else for this post. One thing I have to get straight. I never said anything about our ring or anyone elses I just know that it happens sometimes. I am trying to write up some new lecture notes and one of the things that I am talking about in the lecture is Meeting Manners. I am trying to get feedback from other memebers so that I can look and research what others think. You know how some people are at meetings, they fall asleep, play with coins, cards, not giving the performer their attention when they are performing,etc. I just thought I would write an essay about it and pass it along to our club members and put it in my notes. The name of the essay would be something like, "Pretend it was You." I hope this clears it up. Thanks for the for the feedback in advance. Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Jan 10, 2007 12:53PM)
Crystal Clear.

It would be a vary valuable point to make in ones lecture notes. Good Luck with you new Lecture. I hope you sell a thousand notes. Joe :)
Message: Posted by: munkywrench (Jan 10, 2007 01:09PM)
Glad that is cleared up. I was worried that coming to meetings after a long day of work was being seen as someone that might be under the influence because I am tired. Getting ones attention is a two way street. Both performer and spectator must interact on some level. An analogy would be like being in a boring English class in High School. Make your performance fun and I doubt anyone would not pay attention. Now for the person that doesn't pay attention divert your energy to him/her that will insure that they pay attention. I know this will work as I have seen it work.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 10, 2007 04:28PM)
Hate to tell this but, Munkywrench it doesn't always work out that way. I can tell this by all the emails I have been getting. Thanks for your input.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: Dynomite Magic (Jan 10, 2007 06:46PM)
We had this happen once. The guy was removed by our Sergeant at Arms. The man was interrupting magicians performances and about every other topic during our business meeting. Everyone in the club was extremely offended. Our Club President even had to jump in and tell the guy to be quiet before we could remove him. He won't be coming back. Especially since he wasn't a member, he was just visiting. After we threw him out, he went out into the restaurant that we were meeting at. The manager promptly removed him as well.
In times like this, I really wish I could make people disappear for good. (legally)
He he!
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 10, 2007 08:28PM)
Hey Dynomite. That is funny. Glad to see that your club took care of the problem. If you ever need someone to throw someone else out just give me call. LOL

Michael Bairefoot
"Magic Police"
Message: Posted by: MDS (Jan 10, 2007 11:36PM)
This is an interesting topic and it is sad that it happens. WOW!
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Jan 11, 2007 06:18AM)
A Ring that I used to be a member of long ago had a spell of bad behavior at meetings, stopping short of substance abuse. There was very bad heckling and loud joking by other members during member performances. Anything that wasn't low comedy magic or a simple demonstration with no performance framework was subject to this. I think that this tone was set by rambling, disorganized business meetings before the magic. I don't know how you would cure this once it got established.

Our new Ring has the business meeting following the magic performances. The meetings have a level of formality to them that I think discourages bad behavior. So far, all performers have been treated with respect. They have reciprocated by being extremely generous in explaining effects, citing sources, and bringing in their best material. If we can keep this up, this atmosphere will become the Ring's culture. We have had new people show up at our meetings and join the Ring, and the I.B.M., on the spot, because they loved what they saw.

Once everybody sees the advantages of good behavior at meetings, members won't tolerate bad behavior. It's nice to know that we could get our Sergeant At Arms to escort somebody out, though. I hope that never happens!

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 12, 2007 11:05PM)
What ifs:

What if there were no young members in the club?

What if the drunk or stoned person didn't interrupt anyone and always paid attention?

What if he/she would perform well and do a good show.. even stoned?

Whats bothering the members? The smell of alcohol or pot? Because its a social setting?

What if more than half the members went for a few beers before the meeting? What would you do then?

What if the club sells beer at meetings?

I think it depends on the club itself and its members. Especially if they meet in a bar or restaurant, in which case it shouldn't even be an issue with anyone. If the person isn't a nuisance, just let it be... If its in someone else's house. Well that's a different story.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jan 14, 2007 01:21AM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-11 07:18, drwilson wrote:

A Ring that I used to be a member of long ago had a spell of bad behavior at meetings, stopping short of substance abuse. There was very bad heckling and loud joking by other members during member performances. Anything that wasn't low comedy magic or a simple demonstration with no performance framework was subject to this. I think that this tone was set by rambling, disorganized business meetings before the magic. I don't know how you would cure this once it got established.

[/quote]

So you've been to our ring then?
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Jan 14, 2007 01:44PM)
Dear Payne,

You have a strong need to be liked by other people...

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 14, 2007 01:46PM)
Our magic clubs met for a long time at the meeting hall of a fraternal organization. There was an open bar. It was not uncommon for the members to have a drink or two before or during the meeting. However, it was an unspoken rule that drunkenness would not be tolerated. So nobody got drunk. That happened after the meetings.

Some of the members behave worse, now that we are no longer meeting in the bar.

Regarding the use of marijuana. That's a touchy subject. If someone comes into a club meeting reeking of marijuana, and one of the members is a police officer, it may lead to a bust, and from that a possible problem between the club and the authorities. It's best to leave illegal substances at home.

Laws are much more lax now than they were during the 1960's. But there are hundreds of people whose lives were ruined because they were in the same room with someone who possessed marijuana. I have a friend who did three years at the state penitentiary in Huntsville on just such a charge. Did he blame the police? No. He told me this: "I knew it was illegal to be in the same room with him. I knew the cops had busted people like this before. I was stupid. I didn't get out when he brought out the first joint. I did my time. Now, I'm still paying for it."

Ironically, the law he was busted on was the Harrisson act. It has been since declared unconstitutional because it is considered to be self-incriminatory. But Buddy doesn't get his three years back.

So, why risk it?
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (Jan 14, 2007 02:40PM)
The key note here is protocol of the ring. By having a set formal meeting format members knbow what to expect and how to act. The image that is set by the other members will tell the other memebers how to act. We at our ring Like so many others meet in a place where food and drink is available and the food part is encouraged prior to the meeting. However our membership for the largest part sets a high standard of conduct that is instilled on everyone as they become members.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 14, 2007 09:36PM)
Wow! Thanks for all the help fellows.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: Gordon (Jan 19, 2007 11:22AM)
Drunken magicians? Shocking. Who would have guessed that magicians like alcohol, it is practically unheard of in the magic world. <tongue-in-cheek for the humor impaired.>
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 25, 2007 09:23AM)
I think some of the greats even today, like to drink and smoke up for sessions.. This is going to cause some *&%# I know but whatever... I know for a fact, its not a secret
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 25, 2007 11:36AM)
Eric you are right. I have been getting email to me talking about how just some people ignore it. Are these greats rude when they are under the influnce?

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 26, 2007 08:13AM)
Personally, I [b]do[/b] think it is rude. Just because one is considered a "great" is no excuse.

If one is hired to do a job, whether it is teaching a magic lecture, painting a house or driving a school bus, one should have the decency to display appropriate behavior while "at work." Being "under the influence" is [b]not[/b] that.

What they do on their own time, in the privacy of their own home, is their business. In public...well, that's another story.

Just MY 2 cents! Mark.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jan 26, 2007 03:50PM)
With all due respect, driving a school bus is not showbusiness. Magic is show business. There are many comedians and others who find having a few drinks an important part of their pre-show work. Not my taste, but I don't think we should be so quick to judge, especially if the person's behavior is not out of line. My 2cents.
Message: Posted by: docmagik (Jan 26, 2007 07:08PM)
While I understand the sentiment behind "not judging," I also think that "not judging" can go too far.

How many people could have helped out guys like Belushi, Chris Farley, or Mitch Hedberg, but didn't, because they didn't want to "judge," and figured that the drug use was part of the "price these guys paid" to be "artists."

I say, forget about not judging, and worry about helping. I wish somebody would have had enough judgement to step in and help these guys, so I could still be enjoying their stuff today.

Not saying to rush out and hand out AA cards to everybody holding a Coors. I understand that many people can have a couple of drinks to loosen themselves up and have it not be an issue. But I am saying that your options aren't limited to either "judging them" or "leaving them alone."

The thread was not started about how to deal with people who were coming to ring meetings a little "loose" from a couple of drinks. It's about people who are obviously high or stoned--as in, they're so far under the influence that, were they performing in a respectable venue, they'd probably get fired.

Unless they were David Blaine. He'd get fired if he [i]didn't[/i] come across as mildly strung out.

But again, that just goes back to my point about other entertainers.

Talented performers with serious substance abuse problems shouldn't get a "pass" in the name of their art. They should be helped and supported in the name of our love and respect for the things they do.
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 26, 2007 08:52PM)
Well said Doc.

Driving a school bus is [b]not[/b] show business. You are correct and that was not the point.

The point is they are hired to do a show. Out of respect for those who are paying them, and those attending, should be enough courtesy to do a job sober. Not "drunk, stoned or high" as is the name of this thread.

It's ridiculous to think someone should get a pass from common courtesy just because they might be "great" or not. If they can't do their job without having to "be loose" or "drunk, stoned or high," then they have a lot more issues to deal with and hopefully will figure that out before it is too late.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 26, 2007 08:55PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-26 16:50, bsears wrote:
With all due respect, driving a school bus is not showbusiness. Magic is show business. There are many comedians and others who find having a few drinks an important part of their pre-show work. Not my taste, but I don't think we should be so quick to judge, especially if the person's behavior is not out of line. My 2cents.

[/quote]
Right on...

I can assure you if someone has smoked some pot..They will not be a nuisance in any way.. It just doesn't make sense.. When drunk, to be annoying, you really have had to overdone it. And it would be very apparent, not just the smell. Behavior style

Its a personal choice..as long as its not a nuisance to anyone.

I think many people would be very surprised to know just how many people "they look up to" in the magic world use substances to enhance their creative process in sessions.


[quote]
On 2007-01-26 21:52, mrunge wrote:
Well said Doc.

Driving a school bus is NOT show business. You are correct and that was not the point.

The point is they are hired to do a show. Out of respect for those who are paying them, and those attending, should be enough courtesy to do a job sober. Not "drunk, stoned or high" as is the name of this thread.

It's ridiculous to think someone should get a pass from common courtesy just because they might be "great" or not. If they can't do their job without having to "be loose" or "drunk, stoned or high," then they have a lot more issues to deal with and hopefully will figure that out before it is too late.

Mark.
[/quote]
No one is talking about when they are hired to perform. We are talking about casual situations like ring meetings and attending lectures etc. That's the whole point of this disscussion... (I think!) hehehe
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 26, 2007 09:14PM)
I like the way you think. If it feels good, do it. Who cares? It doesn't bother anyone, they can do whatever they want, there is no respect for others or the situations they find themselves in, etc...Who cares?

After all, maybe they can be more creative in the process. Wow...what could I have been thinking?

Maybe we can all meet and get loose, smoke some pot and whatever else we can find and go hang out at a meeting. After all, it's just a magic meeting or a lecture. You know...casual. What's the big deal about showing up drunk, stoned or high? Why people will just look up to them even more.

Hmmm...what a great idea. Wished I had thought of that.

hehehe
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 26, 2007 11:06PM)
Mrunge that is a great reply. Everyone here has been a great help. By looking back at some of the replies it is very clear that some people just ignore it. that's fine if they want to I guess. But I wonder how many of the greats I mean greats were had substance abuse. I am talking about people who have done magic working for the people in the real world. I think when it happens in meetings some people's thoughts are Well I will over look that because he has done so much for our club or magic and maybe I can learn somthing. Thanks again everyone.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Jan 27, 2007 06:29AM)
One of the stages of a serious substance abuse problem is the point at which the person can no longer "handle it." It might start with a drink or two to get loose, and for some people, it never progresses. For others, they get to the point that they are obviously impaired.

As for Ring meetings being no big deal, I have seen some people treat them that way. I have also seen some very talented people who approach a performance at a Ring meeting with the same standards that they bring to their professional work. I admire these people. They are cultivating a habit of professionalism and excellence.

Sometimes, I have to refer a potential booking to someone else. It's not hard to pick out the people worthy of a referral.

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 27, 2007 04:19PM)
[quote]

Sometimes, I have to refer a potential booking to someone else. It's not hard to pick out the people worthy of a referral.

Yours,

Paul
[/quote]
Again...That is very stereotypical..

Are you saying you would refer a magician who you know would do an [b]"ok"[/b] job over a very good magician who you [b]know[/b] would do a killer show..because he smokes pot or drinks? Makes no sense... sounds like you are bitter.
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Jan 27, 2007 07:23PM)
Dear Eric,

It's not that I am bitter, and I don't admire temperance over performing ability. It's just that the best performers that I have seen are not knocking back a few before their performances. If it makes you feel better, we can think of that as a coincidence. Now everybody's happy!

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 27, 2007 09:29PM)
Hi Paul

I am not talking about paid performances.. I am talking about casual situations... like ring meetings and lectures etc... I would never drink or smoke before a show..
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Jan 27, 2007 10:11PM)
Eric I think you are missing the point. A ring meeting or some ring meetings are trying to make better performers and for some just a chance to perform. If someone is visting the ring or new and sees someone under the influence at a public meeting like a Ring Meeting this could be trouble. I would not want those people saying yeah that had this guy who was high but he did great stuff. And sure would not reccomend anyone who came high or stoned to a club meeting for a paid performance or let them be on any public show that the ring is doing. Becuase how do I know he want show up that way?

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jan 27, 2007 10:41PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-09 22:54, Bairefoot wrote:
Hello, Everyone. I am wondering what would you do if you had a person or persons who was coming to your Ring Meetings under the influence of a substance. You know drunk, stoned, or high? Not just once but a few times a year.

Thanks,

Bairefoot
[/quote]
I think you should ask what's so bad about the ring meetings that they feel they have to get inebriated to get through them!
Message: Posted by: Gordon (Jan 28, 2007 12:13PM)
Oh! This reminds me of a story that the late, great Robert Anton Wilson liked to tell:

A little boy sat on a park bench, eating a candy bar. When he finished the first bar, he reached into his bag and removed another. He ate that one too. This continued until he reached for his sixth candy bar. Then, the man sitting on the bench across the way, said "Hey little boy, you shouldn't eat so much candy."

The little boy replied, "You think so? My grandfather lived to be 106 years old."

The man said, "And did he eat six candy bars at a time?"

"No. He minded his own ******* business."

(Censored for Magic Café policy.)

From the mouths of babes, as they say.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jan 28, 2007 04:27PM)
Gordon - very funny, and I agree completely. I'll have to remember that one!

I will say that there is one "big name" that I have never seen sober, and it bothers me. His name is Steve Barbetzee or something like that. I swear this guy is loaded at every convention he works. His speech is so slurred you can hardly tell what he's saying most of the time. His friends should do an intervention.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 28, 2007 07:14PM)
Omg are you serious? He has a Speech Impediment... I cant imagine it being a joke on your part. Because that would be one of the cruelest comments I have ever seen on the Café.

He has done major work along the years and now his speech is almost perfect. He's been written about many times in magazines and even had the cover of The Linking Ring recently. He's amazingly tight and I wonder how you could have even thought he was drunk with all the great reactions and laughs he gets.

Michael, thanks for clearing it up. I understand your point. All ring meetings have different formats. Where it takes place is a considerable factor in substances being consumed. Let it be a beer [b]before[/b] or [b]during[/b] the meeting, or some pot before coming to the meeting. I still say its a personal choice, if they are not a nuisance. Some magicians see a ring meeting as a night out. Away from their wives/work etc. They want to unwind a little..

As long as there are no children and it's done in good taste. No one should complain about a thing.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jan 28, 2007 09:28PM)
I will back up Eric here. Steve was bit by a dog when a child and left permanently disfigured. He had many reconstructive surgeries and has worked tirelessly to improve his speech. I know for a fact that he does vocal excercizes daily. Bad form, Bsears. You owe Steve an apology.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jan 29, 2007 11:24AM)
My intent was not to offend, if that was the case, I appologize.

My intent was to make a point about judging people. Others in this thread have suggested that those who appear under the influence at IBM events should be confronted. Can you imagine if someone approached a person they thought was drunk or stoned only to find out they have a medical condition?!

Often we don't know peoples backgrounds, or if they have just had surgery and are on pain killers, etc, so it we should use caution when making assumptions that someone is "loaded."

For the record, I have a huge amount of respect for Steve. I know he has a great sense of hunor and I would hope that he saw the point I was trying to make. If I recall correctly, he has actually been accused of being drunk while performing in the past. That's wrong, and that's my point.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jan 29, 2007 12:34PM)
The point was not clear in your first post. Ah, the joys of internet communication. Thanks for clearing that up.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Jan 29, 2007 01:11PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-28 17:27, bsears wrote:
I will say that there is one "big name" that I have never seen sober, and it bothers me. His name is Steve Barbetzee or something like that. I swear this guy is loaded at every convention he works. His speech is so slurred you can hardly tell what he's saying most of the time. His friends should do an intervention.
[/quote]

It really reads like you are serious..I cant even detect one hint of sarcasm.. Anyways.. Glad we cleared that up......
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jan 29, 2007 01:18PM)
Yeah, I thought it would be so over-the-top that the tongue-in-cheek would be hard to miss. Never seems to work like that in text :) I can assure you my intentions were not malicious in the least.
Message: Posted by: docmagik (Jan 29, 2007 04:13PM)
Bsears, for what it's worth, although I don't know Steve, the second people started describing his condition, I realized instantly the [i]real[/i] point of your post. So at least somebody "got it."
Message: Posted by: dbolan (Jan 30, 2007 05:05AM)
[quote]
With all due respect, driving a school bus is not showbusiness...
[/quote]
Never mind the drinking magician, I think we need to talk to this person driving the school bus after a few. 8^)
Message: Posted by: ttorres (Feb 3, 2007 02:15PM)
I think it boils down to this the comfort/needs of the many out weights that of the few. If someone can't conduct himself or herself in such away that is respectful to everyone else than why should everyone (the group the many) tolerate them? Remove them and continue to remove them each and every time until the get it right.
Message: Posted by: Gordon (Feb 5, 2007 04:33PM)
I didn't know that South Carolina allowed socialists to live in Rock Hill. Cool. :)
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Feb 5, 2007 11:30PM)
Hey Tony. It was nice to see you the other night at the meeting. I hoped you liked the 4 Ace trick.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: ttorres (Feb 11, 2007 10:37AM)
Hi Michael,

Thank you, it was good to be seen. But seriously… it always feels like coming home when I am there.

I have always been a fan of the “Leader Cards” effects.

Talk to you soon,

Tony
Message: Posted by: Dizzy (Feb 18, 2007 01:46PM)
I never perform drunk, but usually conventions and lectures are a time for me to let my hair down, relax and enjoy my favourite thing, magic. To be honest most of the people I hang-out with at conventions start drinking as soon as they get up and don't interupt performances or lectures. It's an excuse. People who are disrespectful at these times would still be disrespectful whether there are coming up or down, drunk, stoned or sober. People who continually do it might have a genuine problem with drugs or other substances. I don't bother people and I'm always polite. I think it'd more to do with the person

Diane
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Feb 22, 2007 08:07AM)
Today our Board approved a new section of our Policy and Program Manual dealing with this issue as part of a larger policy on member conduct. I hope that other Rings will be able to use this as a guide to their policy. Please see:

http://www.ibmring362.org/policyandprogram2007.html#conduct

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Feb 22, 2007 10:46AM)
Thank you DRwilson. May I use some of this in my writing?

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Feb 22, 2007 11:45AM)
Dear Bairefoot,

Absolutely. Anyone from any magic club can use any of this. There are a couple of things that are specific to our Ring, like which part of the Bylaws deals with removal of officers, and suspension and expulsion of members. The nature of the contests is also specific to our Ring. I suspect that most of the rest would transport well to most other magic clubs.

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: sclitsome (Mar 4, 2007 06:52PM)
Ok I've been to a meeting drunk. But guess what. Nobody noticed. Or at least nobody said anything. And for a good reason. I wasn't being a nuisance.

I know a few people in our Ring who are annoying and loud and obnoxious and make stupid comments at regular intervals. But is alcohol or drugs really a factor? No. That's the point.

Those substances are just one of many, many personal choices. The bottom line is, if a person is disrespectful, then they are what they are. Do you kick people out of your meeting for wearing trashy clothing? Of course not. But it's a personal choice. The real issue is about prejudice. To find out what should be done in those situations, you must first determine what is collectively "right" or "wrong".

Maybe you were raised believing drugs and alcohol are wrong. But guess what....It's not your call to make. Until those people become a nuisance regardless of substance abuse, that is when anyone should be able to ask them to leave. Until then, mind your own business.

I ride the bus everyday. I see people on every available drug daily! (Vanier!) But that doesn't deter me from taking the bus. That doesn't even affect the view I have of that person! Someone is not inherently "bad" because they smoke crack or shoot up in the morning. I am able to understand that those people are a result of their surroundings and upbringing. It's too bad they weren't raised by some of you so they could be just as close-minded and prejudiced!

Think about it.
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Mar 4, 2007 07:31PM)
We did think about it. That's why our policy addresses behavior at Ring meetings, contests, and public shows, not whether someone shows up drunk and sits there quietly. We are more concerned with people who are jerks, whether or not that problem is connected to substance abuse.

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Mar 5, 2007 06:04AM)
Does your policy cover people talking loudly while others perform? What if they were talking loudly during the business discussion for the ring?
Do you get a majority vote?
What if this has been presented before the board members.
What if a member tries to pick a fight at a public show.

These are all good questions. Everyone has their way of handling situations.

How would your club take action?
-
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Mar 5, 2007 09:10AM)
http://www.ibmring362.org/policyandprogram2007.html#conduct
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Mar 5, 2007 09:32AM)
Thanks for the link...again drwilson. :)
Message: Posted by: Habu (Mar 5, 2007 10:06AM)
[quote]
On 2007-03-04 19:52, sclitsome wrote:
Ok I've been to a meeting drunk. But guess what. Nobody noticed. Or at least nobody said anything. And for a good reason. I wasn't being a nuisance.


Those substances are just one of many, many personal choices.

Maybe you were raised believing drugs and alcohol are wrong. But guess what....It's not your call to make.

It's too bad they weren't raised by some of you so they could be just as close-minded and prejudiced!

Think about it.
[/quote]
I cut out some parts of the post you wrote just to get to the point I believe you were trying to make. I hope I did not take you too far out of context, if so I apologize.

So now, [b]ok[/b], I thought about it. And it [b]is[/b] there call to make!

Use of illegal substances are, well, illegal. Public intoxication is, illegal. [b]If[/b] an organization or business is allowing individuals to break the law then they are subject to the laws applicable to them.

It's not about predjudice, it's about an organization upholding standards.
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Mar 5, 2007 10:12AM)
I agree. It's amazing to me the lengths some people go to in order to justify their own actions!

If you show up at a meeting drunk, and nobody notices, what is that supposed to say? Do you not have more respect for yourself, or those you are around, than that?

What a ridiculous statement to make. If this is normal behavior, I can only hope you get the treatment you obviously need before it's too late.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (Mar 5, 2007 09:38PM)
Hence the By laws that affect behavior of the members. We as a group have to reserve the right to exclude members if they are participating in illegal activities or are impaired enough to cause a nuisance. I can not stress how far this can go as a single impaired member driving out of the parking lot can land you in court. Here in DC (there are two lawyers for each person) Legal suits are a way of life and DUI laws are tough. This isn't the 60's anymore gang.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Mar 6, 2007 11:23AM)
Wow! I did not know that this thread would bring up so many different ideas what people think is ok and what isn't when it comes to going to a ring meeting under the infulence. Some people I notice need everything spelled out to them to understand. If you are causing problems and embarassing the club in or out of the meeting you are causing a problem. What I mean out of the meeting is that if you are performing and someone comes up to you and ask you do you know magician so and so. You say "Yes. He is a nice guy." Then they tell you about how high he or she was at this magic show that they were hired for and that they were selling drugs to their friends. This just is not right. By reading these replies it is easy to see that some people do not understand what a true professional is when it comes to performing for others. My conclusion is if you are making it uncomfortable for others because of the way you use your substance and are going to a club or representing a magic club don't get ****ed when someone tries to talk to you about it. Also, fighting a club meeting or club event is uncalled for. Now, if one of the guys if drunk or high or showing his a-- someone should tell this person about it. How the under the influence person acts because he might not be all there at the moment he may not remember or cannot recall what was really happening if he or she thinking might be impaired. I have been performing magic professionally for 22 years. I have never drank alochol, used drugs, or smoked. So I am sorry if I come off strong about this topic. I just believe now that if no one tells the person or people about what's going on they might never know how and why they are acting the way. Finally, by us all being in the Brotherhood in the end we all should care about each other.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: Dredz (Mar 6, 2007 07:07PM)
Maybe if this is such a problem it should be addressed at your [b]next[/b] meeting.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Mar 6, 2007 07:14PM)
Dredz, Like I have said before in past post about this topic. I only posted this thread to see hows rings would and do deal with this Drunk, Stoned, or High in their ring and if its ever happened before. I have never said anything about my and your Ring. Again thanks to everyone that has answered the post and sent me private emails. All the best.

One more thing Dredz I have never said that there is a problem in our Ring. Everyone to my knowledge have great behavior in the Ring and problems that people had in the past are in the past. Am I missing something? By the way this post has to be one of the all time viewed list. Just wondering if it does.

That did not sound right. What is the highest viewed post ever and which one has the most replies ever? That is what I was trying to say.


Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: Jim Poor (Mar 9, 2007 09:18AM)
[quote]
Right on.......

I can assure you if someone has smoked some pot..They will not be a nuisance in any way... It just doesn't make sense..

[/quote]
Tell that to the two toddlers in the news recently because their uncle gave them pot to smoke. Not a nuisance, I'm sure you can assure us of that.

Pure Lunacy!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Trois (Mar 9, 2007 12:28PM)
I've been involved with a few rings. They all seem to have someone that make others uneasy. I figure every organiztion has that problem. It does make the meetings not quite as enjoyable. I hope I'm not one of those people. Some folks like to show off, some like to sit there and just watch. Different strokes. I myself can get chatty at time, hopefully not at the wrong time. And my lines may not sound as witty to others as they do to me.......must be the low grade drugs. Sorry just had to pop that in for a laugh. Don't flame me...with your fire wallet. see it goes on and on. Mr. Straight (and not so funny).. Trois
ps.. I'll go to Charleston for a lecture to. I've got some orginal stuff I'll share and some takes on some classic, plus my son lives there.
Message: Posted by: Hoagini (Apr 1, 2007 10:05AM)
Just have the meetings in the morning. Guaranteed the people will only hungover at the very least. If they're under the influence at time of day they are probably even less likely to show up anyways. The night seems to bring out the ugly in people.
Message: Posted by: ssucahyo (Apr 2, 2007 02:36AM)
Hi,

We just reactive our ring 321.
We have written club rule, members who influence under drunk, stone is not allowed enter the room. The sergeant at arm can warn them.

CC
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (Apr 2, 2007 10:24PM)
Wow Ssucahyo. Did this thread have anything to do with this written club rule that ring 321 has now? Thanks

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: fingerflickin (Apr 12, 2007 04:54PM)
Well, I think I found our spokesperson for every ring meeting around the world..
LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGvMGUa26k
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Apr 12, 2007 06:36PM)
That one really got me thinking. Just say no to drugs and booze, for sure, but really say [b]no[/b] to fat guys in mesh shirts!

Thanks for the laugh. So many ways up the mountain...

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (Apr 12, 2007 09:59PM)
I'm going to the ford clinic for bad attire.
Message: Posted by: Bairefoot (May 9, 2007 04:17PM)
Hello everyone,

I would like to thank everyone for their input on my thread. So here it goes.

I would like for Ring 334 and other Café members to know at no time was I talking about Ring 334. Ring 334 is a great ring with great members. I started the thread just to know how others would handle this type of situtation. Someone asked me the other day how I would handle it and this is what I said. I would go directly to the person or persons causing the problems and talk directly to them.

Again Thanks goes to everyone who has help and replied to Drunk, Stone, or High.

Once again. I belong to a great Ring Ring 334 and my question at the start of Drunk, Stoned, or High had nothing to do with my Ring 334. They only thing is that maybe I could have worded that first question a little better. Again, Drunk, Stoned, or High had nothing to do with Ring 334.

Thanks for reading and eveyone here have a Magical Day.

Bairefoot
Message: Posted by: sclitsome (Nov 16, 2008 05:28PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-27 23:11, Bairefoot wrote:
Eric I think you are missing the point. A ring meeting or some ring meetings are trying to make better performers and for some just a chance to perform. If someone is visting the ring or new and sees someone under the influence at a public meeting like a Ring Meeting this could be trouble. I would not want those people saying yeah that had this guy who was high but he did great stuff. And sure would not reccomend anyone who came high or stoned to a club meeting for a paid performance or let them be on any public show that the ring is doing. Becuase how do I know he want show up that way?

Bairefoot
[/quote]

The funny thing about our ring is that they're not "trying to make better performers" they just go to hang out and heckle each other. I am 21 and WAS the youngest member. And as far as worrying about getting recommended for shows, well that won't happen because all our members are hobbyists. That's why it's not even worth going to the ring now. No artistic, social or professional merit. Just a bunch of people doing the same tricks every night and making the same bad jokes at each other's expense. So why not have a few beers?
Message: Posted by: JRob (Nov 17, 2008 06:50AM)
[quote]
On 2008-11-16 18:28, sclitsome wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-01-27 23:11, Bairefoot wrote:
Eric I think you are missing the point. A ring meeting or some ring meetings are trying to make better performers and for some just a chance to perform. If someone is visting the ring or new and sees someone under the influence at a public meeting like a Ring Meeting this could be trouble. I would not want those people saying yeah that had this guy who was high but he did great stuff. And sure would not reccomend anyone who came high or stoned to a club meeting for a paid performance or let them be on any public show that the ring is doing. Becuase how do I know he want show up that way?

Bairefoot
[/quote]

The funny thing about our ring is that they're not "trying to make better performers" they just go to hang out and heckle each other. I am 21 and WAS the youngest member. And as far as worrying about getting recommended for shows, well that won't happen because all our members are hobbyists. That's why it's not even worth going to the ring now. No artistic, social or professional merit. Just a bunch of people doing the same tricks every night and making the same bad jokes at each other's expense. So why not have a few beers?
[/quote]
Then why bother going at all. Seriously, if it's all that tedious, there are more pleasant excuses for having a few beers.
Message: Posted by: fxdude (Nov 18, 2008 07:34PM)
Man I'm going to be in trouble then. I've started writing a show for myself that involves a drunk magician. I walk out on stage drunk (acting at first), drink throughout the show, do tricks based around beer bottles, drinking, and shots, and will actually end up a little tipsy at the end of the show. Guess I shouldn't practice the routine at one of the meetings ;-)

And yes I know I can do the whole routine with colored water but what fun would that be :)

I'd have to agree that as long as you're not breaking any laws (driving drunk, acting intoxicated in public) and you're not being obnoxious during the meeting it shouldn't really matter. There are such things as medical marijuana prescriptions (at least in California) so it's not always illegal. Being intoxicated and acting intoxicated in public are two different things.

I will say if you're completely intoxicated then it would be a waste to go to a meeting anyways since you wouldn't get much out of it and in that case should stay home. I don't think anyone should attend anything completely intoxicated but I don't have a problem if someone has had a few drinks, smoked a little, and is sitting quietly or contributing good things to the meeting. I've seen plenty of people that prove you can be completely sober and still be completely annoying.

After saying all of that, if the IBM has made it a rule then it should be followed.
Message: Posted by: harris (Nov 19, 2008 12:49PM)
FX...reminds me of a routine called Guzzler's Gin..(now done brilliantly by Tom Mullica as Red Skelton..

In theatre, I have played one who enjoys his liquor(including brother Stanley in Smoke on the Mountain) One can act, without having the inspiration coming from liquid spirits.

Besides meetings, I am guessing that I am not the only one that has also observed this at conventions..(magic and other types)

As one who used to work in Reno, I have seen alcohol lead to interesting behavior.
Of course this is not restricted to magic. This also includes churchs, malls, comedy clubs, business luncheons...and as the King of Siam said..

Ect, Ect, Ect...


Harris
Message: Posted by: fxdude (Nov 19, 2008 02:01PM)
I've contemplated performing the routine without any alcohol involved. I don't feel that I actually need the alcohol for inspiration but I think it actually adds to the act if people know that I actually get a little tipsy by the end of the show, it just adds to the humor. If someone asks me after the show I want to say that it is real alcohol without having to lie about it. If people know that it is all an act I believe that in some way it will take away from the magic I've performed as well (fake alcohol must mean the rest of the show must be fake, which it is of course but you don't want to validate it any more than you have to).

I love watching Ron White perform (Blue Collar comedy guy). As the show goes on you can really see it in his face that he's feeling the alcohol a bit more. I read an interview with him saying that the fans are also really forgiving if he flubs a line or forgets what he was talking about since he's been drinking, might be a good way to cover up any minor mistakes I could make in the show. I don't plan on getting wasted during the show, just enough to get a good buzz but still be able to drive home an hour or two after the show (meet and greets, packing up the show).
Message: Posted by: harris (Nov 20, 2008 11:53AM)
FX....Humor and laughter are wonderful things...They are among the things I am thankful for these days/daze.

Ah the joys of acting including magic shows...

Being able to handle "hecklers", can help. Over the years, they have come up everywhere for me. This includes kids at birthday parties, 8 AM shows for middle school students, comedy clubs and even at Church events....

re: artistic inspiration with "spirits"...

Reminds me of my earlier theatre years doing Cuckoo's Nest...(one flew over that is)

Do you think Thorazine would have helped?...(smile, and mini lol.)


Isn't it great to have a place to share ...agree..and at times agree to disagree....

With tongue somewhere near my cheek.....

Harris
Message: Posted by: fxdude (Nov 20, 2008 03:17PM)
Yes I totally agree, it's great to have a place to share thoughts and agree or disagree. I work in film but I'm not much of an actor (I've acted in plenty of student films, it's just not my thing). I don't like playing characters when I perform my magic either, I don't like saying "On my last trip to China an old wise man gave me these magical coins", or "This deck of cards used to be my great grandfather's until he was shot in a dual", I like being myself. Right now I'm a 28 year old who likes to drink with friends, head out to bars and clubs, crack a few jokes, and perform a little magic. I just want my show to reflect that. I'm sure once I'm older my attitude and presentations will change, once I actually do get to visit China :)
Message: Posted by: harris (Nov 21, 2008 08:24AM)
Although I have met a lot of folks from around the world, I have not traveled much..

Putting yourself into your routines is a wise choice.(it is what you know most)

Re:my last trip to China...My trips are most likely to Walmart, Home Depot or the gas station....

Hope to make a trip to our local ring 129...as I haven't made it there in a while.
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Nov 29, 2008 12:20PM)
What about playing an aging hippie, stoned and surprising himself at the various miracles that happen at his fingertips?

I've thought that it could be humorous, although the market for such an act would likely be very small.
Message: Posted by: fxdude (Nov 29, 2008 01:56PM)
Haha, would go over well in northern California and Vancouver, Canada :)

I've actually thought about using some of that in my drunk act, I keep surprising myself. I had originally thought about doing the act as a homeless bum who drinks too much but can do magic.
Message: Posted by: Loggerhead (Jan 16, 2009 08:46AM)
IBM Application: two tricks,and a Urinalysis test...
Message: Posted by: Craig Dickson (Jan 29, 2009 01:11PM)
Hey Michael. Another serious aspect is what do you do when the lecturer/performer shows up stoned, drunk, or high? Let me count the times.........
Message: Posted by: iugefu (Feb 2, 2009 09:52AM)
As has been stated often on this thread: its how you behave, not whats inside you.
Take the Netherlands, where I am from, for example, where pot is de facto legal, and compare it to Uncle Sam where some 800 000 souls languish in jail on POSSESSION ( admittedly not all pot)charges. If someone wants to inhale before a meeting, not reek of the **** or light up anywhere on the premises its OK by me.

Now did I tell you about a very high profile dude in the community whose nostrils could only be described as a vacuum cleaner?
Message: Posted by: bsears (Feb 2, 2009 11:18AM)
Remove someone for being a nuisance? I imagine most clubs would lose 20 percent of their members.