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Topic: Criss Angel Flying Without Edits
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:01PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFlaaKwJrG0

Awhile ago he said that he would fly again in the new season and prove everyone that he's not using any camera edits and stooges.. I had my doubts, until I saw the show.

One continuous shot, just unbelievable.
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Jun 7, 2007 05:08PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 18:01, DJM wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFlaaKwJrG0

One continuous shot, just unbelievable.
[/quote]
No it wasn't.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:10PM)
Thanks for the punchline! ;)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:22PM)
Alright, I counted about 35 edits from the time he starts flying.. and no more than 20 people watching.

He's even better than I thought!
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Jun 7, 2007 05:26PM)
Still takes man bits to hang that far up in the air! I will give him that! Huuhhh if that was him up in the air....double......?
Message: Posted by: MagicMarker (Jun 7, 2007 05:29PM)
He needs to think a little about consistancy. Do you think birds get nervous before lift off? No. Why? Because they can fly, that's why.
Enough with the deep breaths and gulps, just do the magic already.

I don't know, fair play to the guy for achieving what he has, but I just can't watch it. Recently for the first time ever I was flicking through the TV channels, found a magic show and kept flipping.

The character just leaves me completely cold.
Still 90% of what I see on TV leaves me cold, so I'm hardly the target audience.
He's doing well for himself, and who can argue with that.

-Rd
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jun 7, 2007 05:35PM)
Here is my point with this one. With all the money he has to do this stuff, why does he need the camera edits? You can sure do that minus the edits.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:36PM)
The annoying thing is that he doesn't even try to make it seem real.. 35 edits in 2 minutes? I don't even see that in MTV clips.

Isn't magic about making things look real?
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Jun 7, 2007 05:38PM)
Wow! What a beautiful hotel.

Oh,what was the point?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:38PM)
Chichi, you beat me to that. :)
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jun 7, 2007 05:41PM)
I think I missed the part where he looks straight at the camera at the end and says 'Totally impromptu!' before mincing off.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 05:44PM)
What you see is what you get..

He probably told that to those 10 people that caught him at the end.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 7, 2007 05:45PM)
There is this direct shot from a camera directly in front of him while he is hyperventilating...However, the camera is no where to be seen when the shot from below is taken. THE CAMERAMAN MUST BE ABLE TO LEVITATE AND FLY AWAY TOO :)
Even MORE amazing!

Check these out :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baHxmkiuptg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRybVvTR9Gc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQeTmqQHLJI&mode=related&search=
Message: Posted by: John C (Jun 7, 2007 06:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 18:08, Magical Dimensions wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 18:01, DJM wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFlaaKwJrG0

One continuous shot, just unbelievable.
[/quote]
No it wasn't.
[/quote]
It wasn't what: 1) One continuous shot or 2) just unbelievable

John
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Jun 7, 2007 06:06PM)
BOTH! LOL
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 06:07PM)
http://cliquemerch.sparkart.com/crissangel/viewmerch.php?merch_id=1101

Here's a great magic trick to make a wallet get bigger and bigger.
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Jun 7, 2007 06:11PM)
Holy Cow $100 for a dumb T-Shirt!

DJM, how many T-shirts do you have? LOL


Ray
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 06:17PM)
I'm still waiting for them to sell a shirt with his signature.. Hope it won't be fake. :)
Message: Posted by: howdoidisconnect (Jun 7, 2007 06:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 18:45, Slim King wrote:
There is this direct shot from a camera directly in front of him while he is hyperventilating...However, the camera is no where to be seen when the shot from below is taken. THE CAMERAMAN MUST BE ABLE TO LEVITATE AND FLY AWAY TOO :)
Even MORE amazing!

Check these out :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baHxmkiuptg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRybVvTR9Gc&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQeTmqQHLJI&mode=related&search=
[/quote]

Yeah I counted at least 3 different levitation's during that shot, if you re watch, you can see different levels being achieved, then cutting to a higher float, etc,etc.

I actually didn't see all the show, I for got it was on, so I only say this one effect. But his brother drives me nuts, is he aware that he comes off as a complete idiot on these shows?
Message: Posted by: Alexander Marsh (Jun 7, 2007 06:55PM)
... but he does have nice hair.
Message: Posted by: Harlequin (Jun 7, 2007 07:21PM)
No sane person would believe that anyone could levitate with that much heavy jewelry on. ;)
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jun 7, 2007 08:43PM)
I'm still waiting for them to sell a Costa-style white wifebeater emblazoned with 'Mindfreak'.
Message: Posted by: Illucifer (Jun 7, 2007 09:02PM)
Slim King, as for camera shots in front of Cris, there are long lenses for cameras that aloow them to zoom in close and such. One needn't actually be directly in front of the subject to acquire such a shot.

What really takes the cake with this is the reaction it receives. Am I to believe that these are real, unsolicited spectators who just saw a man fly from 15 (or however many) stories up and their only reaction is to clap their hands and high-five him after this event?
Jesus, these people should be offering to follow him to the ends of the earth, right?
Seems a rather lackluster response to what would be a bonafide miracle to someone who really saw what we saw at home (and was not a hired hand).
I'm picturing Christ raising Lazarus from the dead and the crowd of people clapping as he emerges from the grave.
Silly. Just silly.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jun 7, 2007 09:21PM)
If he is levitating, why did he come down? One would think if you could fly you would go up.
Message: Posted by: The Doctor (Jun 7, 2007 09:30PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 20:21, Harlequin wrote:
No sane person would believe that anyone could levitate with that much heavy jewelry on. ;)
[/quote]

No sane person would believe that anyone could levitate with that much ego.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 7, 2007 09:53PM)
So Illucifer, are you saying that the cameraman didn't really fly either? :)
Message: Posted by: Occams Razor (Jun 7, 2007 09:55PM)
One thing I think most people missed is the religious overtones when Angel levitates. First is when he descends into the depths of the pryramid with his arms outstretched and feet together in a sort of "crucified" pose. Later when he floats in the light above the pyramid he is wearing all white and while using the same pose ascends into the heavens on a white beam of light as if resurrected. Methinks that Angel wants to be seen as the magic messiah.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 7, 2007 10:00PM)
If I could really fly I'd be Swimming through the air doing summersaults and fun acrobatic stuff (Envision Dory in Finding Nemo :) ) But NOT looking as if I'd loose my balance every second.
Where's the fun in that?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 10:03PM)
Slim, you mean the Copperfield flying stuff? :)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 7, 2007 10:13PM)
I'd mean like a Flying Monkey delivering my [b]Tea With Jack and Alice DVD....[/b]
All over the place having [b]primal fun!!![/b]
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 7, 2007 10:16PM)
Hmmm That sounds a bit complicated.. I think he would need about 50 edits for that, instead of 35!
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Jun 7, 2007 11:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 22:02,Illucifer wrote:
Slim King, as for camera shots in front of Cris, there are long lenses for cameras that aloow them to zoom in close and such. One needn't actually be directly in front of the subject to acquire such a shot.

What really takes the cake with this is the reaction it receives. Am I to believe that these are real, unsolicited spectators who just saw a man fly from 15 (or however many) stories up and their only reaction is to clap their hands and high-five him after this event?
Jesus, these people should be offering to follow him to the ends of the earth, right?
Seems a rather lackluster response to what would be a bonafide miracle to someone who really saw what we saw at home (and was not a hired hand).
I'm picturing Christ raising Lazarus from the dead and the crowd of people clapping as he emerges from the grave.
Silly. Just silly.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I was thinking. If this guy could really do that and you witnessed it first hand, me thinks one would be ####ing ones pants. For a miracle of that magnitude the reactions were quite lame and rather relaxed. Besides, if this was the real deal and he really did supposedly do this for real then why wasn't the media all over this with Criss on the front page of every national and global newspaper as well as the leading story on every newscast on the face of the earth? Just in case anyone thought that this crap was real, just think about that fact.

;)

Phil
Message: Posted by: jaymeswhite (Jun 7, 2007 11:49PM)
There was def edits he has so much money that he can do anything
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 8, 2007 08:33AM)
The big question is why only 20 people can be seen at one of the greatest hotels in this world? That's the most absurd part.

Like I said, they don't even try to make it seem real.
Message: Posted by: MagicMarker (Jun 8, 2007 09:48AM)
[quote]
The big question is why only 20 people can be seen at one of the greatest hotels in this world? That's the most absurd part.
[/quote]
Maybe he did it while Copperfield and Burton were on stage.

-Rd
Message: Posted by: Virungan (Jun 8, 2007 09:48AM)
This one was missing my favorite ghastly Criss staple... His fretting mother wringing her hands and his two skeezy brothers with their Guns N Roses hair saying "I do'wanna even watch"...

And now he's dating Cameron Diaz.... Or is she just a stooge?

Maybe his pick-up line was "We've never met have we?... What you see is what you get..."

:)
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jun 8, 2007 09:53AM)
Phil your post struck me as odd in a lot of ways, but do you honestly think when someone makes a blue card turn red that people think it is real? I could go on and on with magic examples here, but I don't feel like I need to. Only a small percentage of people actually think "holly crap Criss just flew". Go read the thread talking about if the audience is smarter then we think they are?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 8, 2007 10:11AM)
Well, looks like he does try to make certain things seem real, especially the ones that are impossible to do. "What you see is what you get," "No camera tricks and stooges." This whole effect in the last episode was to prove that there's no illusion in what does.

The audience isn't stupid, but Criss sure thinks they are.
Message: Posted by: Jordan Waller (Jun 8, 2007 10:12AM)
I like the home movie footage.
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jun 8, 2007 10:24AM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-08 11:11, DJM wrote:
Well, looks like he does try to make certain things seem real, especially the ones that are impossible to do. "What you see is what you get," "No camera tricks and stooges." This whole effect in the last episode was to prove that there's no illusion in what does.

The audience isn't stupid, but Criss sure thinks they are.
[/quote]

Of course he tries to make it "real". don't we all try and make it real? I sure hope you do. Sure some of us give a disclaimer, but then we do everything we can to make the audience believe. It seems sometimes we get upset with Angel over things we do as well. He is just on a bigger stage, so it bugs us.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 8, 2007 10:30AM)
What I mean is that tries to make it real in ineterviews and such, but it looks pretty fake during the effects themselves.

Copperfield flying seems very real, and he doesn't even say anything during that. Criss says it's real, but the effect looks like some bad Hollywood movie.

That's the difference between a good magician who wants people to be amazed, and one who only wants to show off.
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Jun 8, 2007 10:34AM)
Ya I can certainly understand and agree with that point. It would have been much better had it been ONE shot.
Message: Posted by: Harry H (Jun 8, 2007 11:08AM)
The video page wont even load for me.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 8, 2007 11:34AM)
So get a new computer.
Message: Posted by: Phil Thomas (Jun 8, 2007 03:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-08 10:53, chichi711 wrote:
Phil your post struck me as odd in a lot of ways, but do you honestly think when someone makes a blue card turn red that people think it is real? I could go on and on with magic examples here, but I don't feel like I need to. Only a small percentage of people actually think "holly crap Criss just flew". Go read the thread talking about if the audience is smarter then we think they are?
[/quote]

Hey Chichi,

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I meant by the "audience reaction". It looked too fake for an effect of the magnatude he was trying to bring forth. I know if I actually saw someone do that for real, I wouldn't just stand there and say "holy crap...look at that" and then go about my business. I know for a fact that I would be freaking out. The reactions just didn't seem real enough for the effect. But yeah, I agree with you 100%. We all need to make our magic look real. If it doesn't look real, then we are doing something wrong. You make a great point my friend!

:cheers:

Phil
Message: Posted by: Adam Milestone (Jun 8, 2007 05:15PM)
They don't always get it right about CA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4S5trKZMM

BTW he didn't levitate 15 (or whatever) stories. It seemed to me that he was perched 15 stories in the air and then floated another 20-30 feet and suspended himself there. The decent looked better in my mind even with its faults!
IMHO Flying is still the world's champion as far levitations are concerned! ;)
Message: Posted by: Donny Orbit (Jun 8, 2007 09:15PM)
I think what we all seem to be missing is that this show is for LAYMEN. Yes, we can analyze his performance and lack of presentation, but I doubt everyone that witnessed the illusions that he showed were stooges. All it takes is one person to be amazed and he has done his job. The moment of astonishment.

Maybe I just read the Paul Harris article in MAGIC one to many times this month...


XX
Message: Posted by: edh (Jun 8, 2007 10:43PM)
[quote] ...All it takes is one person to be amazed and he has done his job. The moment of astonishment. [/quote]

Not according to the suits at A&E.

Better be more than one person.
Message: Posted by: Harry H (Jun 9, 2007 04:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 22:02, meauxfeaux wrote:
Slim King, as for camera shots in front of Cris, there are long lenses for cameras that aloow them to zoom in close and such. One needn't actually be directly in front of the subject to acquire such a shot.
*snip*
[/quote]

That camera shot in fromt of him up close isn't a zoom from a distant camera.As a photographer I can confirm,looking at depth of field and other unimportant rubbish :)
Message: Posted by: Jazz (Jun 10, 2007 12:14AM)
The Levitations seemed too "mechanic" for my taste. Didnīt care much for them. I have always liked "The bike to girls" illusion. Hardly original, but pretty cool. Thanks for getting rid of the SPOV cam. At least the "continuous shot cam" is less annoying. I see that the "hi Mom" and "these has never been attempted before" has been brought back from last season. Ouchh! And his "NOW!!!" screams also. Could have done without them. Wow, I sound like a hard critic. Still I really like the guy, honest. What I liked most was the Cirque du Soleil preview.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jun 10, 2007 08:57AM)
Very interesting, Criss. Good luck with the stage show.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 10, 2007 12:16PM)
I hope some of his fans will ask him to do his Mindfreak effects on stage.

That should be funny.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jun 12, 2007 06:48AM)
I don't know of any performer who does an on-request stage show, though. Sounds like this production will feature the Cirque troupe quite heavily as well, so I'm sure it will be less of a 'light entertainment' family magic show, and more of a 'spectacle'.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Jun 12, 2007 09:25AM)
I'd like to know how many people here have ever actually edited any type of video themselves? In my experience editing video, if that was done as one shot ... it would be exteremely BORING!

The human mind expects to see multiple angles when watching video. You watch a baseball game and you see the pitcher wind up ... then they cut to show you the batter hit the ball ... then you see the outfielder assume the pose ... they cut to show you the batter running for the base, then back to the outfielder scrambling to recover the ball and throw it to the baseman ... then you see batter's foot hit the bag just as the ball is caught ... you see the umpire motion "SAFE" and a final cut shows the fans on their feet cheering.

Now, imagine the same thing only as one shot ... BORING! To get all of that in one frame the ball would be so tiny you wouldn't even be able to see it.

Regardless of what your opinion of Chris Angel is, you should at least acknowledge that to present magic on TV it must be done in an entertaining way for the audience to enjoy it.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jun 12, 2007 12:14PM)
Criss's original "Mindfreak" show off of Broadway was pretty "Cirque"-ish already.
Message: Posted by: Danny Diamond (Jun 12, 2007 12:55PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-12 13:14, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
Criss's original "Mindfreak" show off of Broadway was pretty "Cirque"-ish already.
[/quote]

It was also much more impressive and entertaining than the stuff I see him do on tv lately, imo.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 12, 2007 01:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 20:21, Harlequin wrote:
No sane person would believe that anyone could levitate with that much heavy jewelry on. ;)
[/quote]
You fool that is HOW HE LEVITATES!!!!!
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 12, 2007 01:28PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-12 10:25, JoeJoe wrote:

Regardless of what your opinion of Chris Angel is, you should at least acknowledge that to present magic on TV it must be done in an entertaining way for the audience to enjoy it.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

People like to watch magic as if it happened right before their eyes.. it's not going to happen if the shot changes every 2 seconds because that would make it seem very suspicious and ruin the illusion. There's a big difference between watching sports and watching a magic show.

Besides, it's pretty obvious that most of the edits are made for the effect to work, just like in this case. Notice how the shot changes helped them add the m*****.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cfg1SCHKwp0
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 12, 2007 01:56PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-12 10:25, JoeJoe wrote:
Regardless of what your opinion of Chris Angel is, you should at least acknowledge that to present magic on TV it must be done in an entertaining way for the audience to enjoy it.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

This is true. I agree completly. I believe that Criss' OVERUSE of the camera crutch, takes away from its entertainment value for everyone. Note I say OVERUSE. Not USE.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jun 12, 2007 10:24PM)
Out of interest, Danny, where would you draw the 'usage' line? When does it become overuse? Just curious; 'tis quite a topical question in today's TV climate. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 12, 2007 10:42PM)
Watched tonights show. Just wondered why he had to put "Towels" behind the Crusher...to protect the crowd from flying glass, when he'd just broken whole bottles that would "fly" much more when breaking...and wouldn't they be more apt to fly from the front of the crusher rather than AFTER they'd been broaken..
MY GIRLFRIEND LAUGHED :)
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 12, 2007 11:53PM)
Why does he do such dangerous "DEMONSTRATIONS". Why every week he says it might be his last moment breathing? Why Banachek? Why Sankey? WHY WHY WHY.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 13, 2007 12:54AM)
Wait, so was he alive at the end?
Message: Posted by: Jazz (Jun 13, 2007 01:10AM)
I liked the crusher stunt. Lots of stunts this new season and not that many illusions. I guess the ratings go higher with stunts. I think that some of the illusions are being repeated only with different looks. DO they ran out already? Itīs only the second day of the season. Agh, the SPOV is back! Well at least it is not as annoying as last season. Cute black fingernails.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 13, 2007 10:27AM)
Well I do not know how it still runs.

I wonder why he dosn't seem to learn anything.

Now the question is this. Do you really think the stunts are done for ratings or "EGO"?
Message: Posted by: Jazz (Jun 13, 2007 03:13PM)
Maybe ego for himself, but I think the suits at the network think of ratings
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 13, 2007 03:18PM)
I find "danegrous" stunts not done live pretty boring, since you know exaclty how it all turned out.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 13, 2007 07:44PM)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ISmCJZA3I1A


God, is he going to fly in every episode from now on? It's getting pathetic, especially when it's the exact same thing every time only at different locations.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Jenson (Jun 13, 2007 10:58PM)
I personaly think he's trying to make himself the best magician out there, even when people find out that
I'm a magician they ask me if I can do the stuff that Criss Angel does, my reply to that is only if I had a
camera crew!!! Then I do something that will blow them away. I am really getting sick and tired of his so called stunts and so called magic, It's all bunk!!! I know that I have harsh feeling about the subject but now I see that next week he's going to move a man's eyebrow to the man's chin, WHAT? come on Criss knock this stuff off and get back to the real ruts of magic if you are a magician.
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jun 14, 2007 08:51AM)
Summer of '08, looks like he'll be on stage again, like many of us.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jun 15, 2007 12:47AM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 22:02, meauxfeaux wrote:

I'm picturing Christ raising Lazarus from the dead and the crowd of people clapping as he emerges from the grave.
Silly. Just silly.

[/quote]

You're right, that would definately warrant a high five or two...
Message: Posted by: Robert Apodaca (Jun 15, 2007 01:34AM)
You guys are right, it does come off as pretty fake.

I guess his target audience are laymen and not magicians. Who would of thought.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Jun 15, 2007 02:44AM)
The problem is that a lot of laymen also see it as pretty fake.. so what's the point?

People are not stupid, they can see the difference between magic tricks and Harry Potter special effects.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Feb 15, 2008 11:54AM)
Is CA still claiming "No Camera Tricks"?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 15, 2008 12:07PM)
No he is too busy fending off unwarranted attacks against him.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Feb 15, 2008 01:14PM)
Haven't heard of those. I did hear him, CA , say he'd put someone in the hospital, but I didn't hear anyone say they'd put HIM in one... So who doing the attacking?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 15, 2008 02:43PM)
I am still waiting for the "boxing match" someone heard of to be linked.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Feb 18, 2008 01:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-07 22:02, Illucifer wrote:
Slim King, as for camera shots in front of Cris, there are long lenses for cameras that aloow them to zoom in close and such. One needn't actually be directly in front of the subject to acquire such a shot.

What really takes the cake with this is the reaction it receives. Am I to believe that these are real, unsolicited spectators who just saw a man fly from 15 (or however many) stories up and their only reaction is to clap their hands and high-five him after this event?
Jesus, these people should be offering to follow him to the ends of the earth, right?
Seems a rather lackluster response to what would be a bonafide miracle to someone who really saw what we saw at home (and was not a hired hand).
I'm picturing Christ raising Lazarus from the dead and the crowd of people clapping as he emerges from the grave.
Silly. Just silly.
[/quote]


I know [i]I[/i] would have wanted to touch the hem of his garment....

TW
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Feb 18, 2008 09:00PM)
Some have been accused of having an agenda here. Some I see just want to argue.

I have always let it be known that I dislike [b]Criss[/b] Angel. When I first read about him I was living in Germany so I was not subjected to his Cable show. I think his use of [i]tricks[/i] to make believe that he can perform [i]tricks[/i] and acting like he is the last word in Magic is deplorable. His behavior on Phenomenon was reprehensible and since then, every magician I have spoken with in person agrees. I doubt I have ever heard his name brought up at the Magic Castle without someone laughing out loud. Heís a joke in our circle and I am amazed that some people with magic knowledge still admire him.

Besides The Masked Magician, Valentino, I think [b]Criss[/b] Angel is the only magician in 100 years that is openly disliked within the magic circle.

His view of what a Magician is and what my view are completely different. As long as [b]Criss[/b] Angel spouts his false talents are genuine and as long as he looks down at fellow conjurers, I will point out his flaws.

So what are your agendas? Anyone that is participating in this on-going discussion about [b]Criss[/b] Angel has an agenda. You must since you are spending your valuable time in the forums and posting your opinion.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 18, 2008 09:37PM)
I'm no fan of Criss Angel but your post begs the question; what was the Magic Castle's agenda in giving him the "Magician of the Year" award?
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Feb 18, 2008 09:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-18 22:37, Randwill wrote:
I'm no fan of Criss Angel but your post begs the question; what was the Magic Castle's agenda in giving him the "Magician of the Year" award?
[/quote]
They gave it to him twice, believe it or not! I was not a member of the AMA at the time so I really cannot say. Iím sure many AMA members are thinking the same as American voters that elected their last president. I had my ballot for this year, but I feel unqualified to vote since I have not seen most of the nominees perform.


[b]Criss[/b] Angelís portrait used to be on the wall of fame at the Castle, but it has been unceremoniously moved to the basement behind a player piano.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 18, 2008 10:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-18 22:59, DerZauberer wrote:
[b]Criss[/b] Angelís portrait used to be on the wall of fame at the Castle, but it has been unceremoniously moved to the basement behind a player piano.
[/quote]I guess that says something.

Out here in the hinterlands, I'm not privileged to be in the Southern Cal magic circles. So I wonder when I see people like Lance Burton, Penn Jillette, Johnny Thompson and Banachek supporting Angel. I'm sure they have agendas as well. Agendas which probably revolve around the thinking that it's good to be on TV, no matter what the circumstances.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Feb 19, 2008 12:08PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-18 23:19, Randwill wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-02-18 22:59, DerZauberer wrote:
[b]Criss[/b] Angelís portrait used to be on the wall of fame at the Castle, but it has been unceremoniously moved to the basement behind a player piano.
[/quote]I guess that says something.

Out here in the hinterlands, I'm not privileged to be in the Southern Cal magic circles. So I wonder when I see people like Lance Burton, Penn Jillette, Johnny Thompson and Banachek supporting Angel. I'm sure they have agendas as well. Agendas which probably revolve around the thinking that it's good to be on TV, no matter what the circumstances.
[/quote]
You got that right!
And now that they've been on TV they've all left for one reason or another .... (Lance and Penn have shows there but they weren't on the staff)