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Topic: How to apply fanning powder
Message: Posted by: Froste (Jun 21, 2007 09:23PM)
Howdy folks!

I am looking for some tips on applying fanning powder to a deck. I am familiar with the methods shown on Jeff McBride's Card Manipulation videos... shaking the cards in a bag with the powder (Shake N Bake!) and putting some powder on the top edge and faro shuffling a ton... but I'm wondering if any of you had a favorite method you use.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jun 22, 2007 10:46AM)
I do the Shake N Bake myself, but there IS a device you can use called a Soo Zee. I'm curious as to whether its worth the trouble (you end up powdering each card separately). But maybe this thread will turn some one up who's tried it.

Jeff
Message: Posted by: Froste (Jun 27, 2007 12:57AM)
And there you have it, folks! 76 views and but one reply. Shake and Bake is the way to do it. ;)

Nobody's tried it any other way? How about card presses... does anybody use those? Are they nice? Shiny?
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jun 27, 2007 11:56AM)
Froste, don't be too disappointed. This forum is not particularly active. I don't know why, but my guess is that the XCM people spend most of their time elsewhere, like at godzhandzlordz and 23Aces and Deckniki. Too many magicians around here at the Café.

As for myself, I stopped experimenting with methods of applying powder because I haven't used powder in six months. I have VERY mixed feelings about it. It is super for fanning, and it is probably super for a few things I don't do (like armspread catches. I don't throw anything into the air, because I am too lazy to pick up cards that fall). But if you take the same deck and start doing faros, you find it hard to square the packets after shuffling. What I do is keep one specific kind of deck (Tally fanbacks) powdered, and nothing else. And lately I've been working on sleights rather than flourishes, so there has been very little powder in my life.

I think that "The Workers" forum would have gotten more responses, but THIS is the forum where the participants should be powder experts. Where are the powder experts?

Jeff
Message: Posted by: MinnesotaChef (Jun 28, 2007 04:00AM)
I have an old video where Bill Tarr himself applies fanning powder with a Q-Tip one at a time to each card. I wouldn't take the time to do it that way, but it is a different way. I have also seen a guy do a ribbon spread sprinkle the powder right on them and then shuffle for about 5 minutes straight. It seemed to work fine.

As for card presses, I don't use them unless I've "Broken" a deck, when you scrape them individually under a ruler to make them bendy. I don't know if that's the industry term, but that's what I was told it was called. I made my card press from two pieces of wood and some nut and bolts.

Hopefully, some of this helps.
Message: Posted by: Chris_Black (Jul 1, 2007 03:22AM)
I have applied powder to cards individually....the very first time I ever powdered cards was about 12 years ago, I didn't know any other way..so I just sprinkled some on each card...also, I used foot powder back then.
Nowadays, I do powder all my cards, right out of the box..whether they are going to be used for magic or card manipulations. I do use the bag method. It does take awhile to get used to, and squaring can be an issue. but I would rather have to put in a little effort to square the cards than have them slipping and sliding all over the place.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Ree (Jul 23, 2007 08:02PM)
Scan down 2 or 3 posts in the thread mentioned below.
There are several detailed comments about
applying fanning powder.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=217932&forum=10

Hope this helps.

I will be trying the "cotton pad/cotton ball" method
instead of "shake and bake". We'll see what happens.
Message: Posted by: closeupcardician (Aug 17, 2007 11:28PM)
Very Carefully.
Message: Posted by: shek (Aug 31, 2007 07:36PM)
I use the method described on the XB DVD :)
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Sep 7, 2007 01:38AM)
In the past, I used the method of putting the cards loosely into a paper bag, apply powder and give the low a big shake. After that, I started a modified version, adding cards one by one into the bag. That worked like a charm.
Message: Posted by: phillipsje (Sep 7, 2007 04:52AM)
Does the powder really work? All I ever had was a mess after I put them in a bag and shook everything up.
Message: Posted by: Gary Dayton (Sep 7, 2007 05:46AM)
Fanning powder works very well. You can use a paper bag or a cotton ball/pad. The bag is quicker; the cotton ball probably more effective. In either case, use only a small amount of powder. Using too much causes the cards to clump up. Also, when using the bag method, try putting in a few cards (5-10) at a time, rather than the whole deck at once. Use a small amount of powder, and shake gently.
Message: Posted by: phillipsje (Sep 7, 2007 06:12AM)
Is the powder for regular decks? I bought some Nielsen Manipulation Cards and they seemed to fan fine on their own.
Message: Posted by: Gary Dayton (Sep 7, 2007 08:55AM)
They may have already been treated.
Message: Posted by: phillipsje (Sep 8, 2007 12:14AM)
The Nielsen cards came from Nielsen and were in plastic.
Message: Posted by: owln_1 (Apr 9, 2008 08:43AM)
I've powdered 2 or 3 decks with Nielsen's fanning powder the shake and bake method and it seems to me to make the cards sticky and they don't fan as well as they do right out of the new case these are Hoyle cards any help on this sticky problem or is that how they are suppose to be? Owln_1
Message: Posted by: martini (Apr 9, 2008 01:33PM)
Greetings Froste:
I have found that what works best for me is using a make up brush. It is very soft, I dip it into my container of zinc Sterate and just twirl it covering the entire card.
This gives a nice even coat without too much powder which could cause clumping.

I use the same type of brush to coat the insides of my rising units on my rising cards, although there I use a mixture for a specific reason.

Just about every magic dealer carries fanning powder and a container will probably last you a lifetime. Do not use baby powder as it is talc with sharp microscopic points that will do the opposite of what you wish to achieve.

I know some may say that doing one card at a time is very time consuming, but anything worth doing, is worth doing right the first time. I personally have never been a fan of the shake and bake method of coating cards, you end up using too much powder, bend corners of cards, and get clumping.

Just my two cents
All the Best
Marty
Message: Posted by: Solitaire (Apr 10, 2008 03:47AM)
@martini,
I like your idea with the make up brush, until now I have either used the shake & bake method or a cotton pad.

I only put one card in a zip log baggy and use very little fanning powder. Yes, it is time consuming, but I love my tarot cards.
Message: Posted by: stuartmagic (Apr 16, 2008 12:11PM)
Having tried many different ways with varied success I have to say that for me the "shake and bake" as many people call it is the best method.

Here is how I have done it for the past 5 years .

You use a very large plastic bag ( I use a strong bin liner ),do not fall into the trap of using a small bag as it won't work as well. Place the whole pack / deck inside , yep all 52 of them . Now comes the very important bit. Into the bag place some fanning powder not too much and not too little. The way to do it is hold the fanning powder container over the bag and give it three gentle taps with the index finger which will release enough powder into the bag. It may not look like enough but it is. DO NOT over powder the cards.

Gather up the top of the bag so that it now looks like a large balloon and shake it for about 20 seconds. Now that's your exercises over for today. Take the pack / deck out of the bag, sort them out so they all face the same way and do a couple of faro shuffles ( they don't have to be perfect) and that's it your ready to go.

The large bag can be saved for next time you need it.

Hope this helps you as much as it has me.

Stuart Brown
British Magical Champion
Of Stage Manipulation 2007
Message: Posted by: trashmanf (Apr 18, 2008 02:28PM)
As you are the champion of Stage Manipulation, I am sure you are an expert, but this is the "flourishing" forum and for many flourishes, the more fanning powder the better, so I respectfully disagree with your warning to NOT over-powder the cards. In fact I don't know if it's possible to over-powder them!

Jerry "The Flourishman" uses tons of fanning powder and so I have been using this method as well, it takes a lot more Faro shuffles to tune the deck after that but it's really nice for armspread aerials, giant fan twirls, and other difficult moves.
Message: Posted by: stuartmagic (Apr 19, 2008 06:41AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-18 15:28, trashmanf wrote:
As you are the champion of Stage Manipulation, I am sure you are an expert, but this is the "flourishing" forum and for many flourishes, the more fanning powder the better, so I respectfully disagree with your warning to NOT over-powder the cards. In fact I don't know if it's possible to over-powder them!

Jerry "The Flourishman" uses tons of fanning powder and so I have been using this method as well, it takes a lot more Faro shuffles to tune the deck after that but it's really nice for armspread aerials, giant fan twirls, and other difficult moves.
[/quote]

Thankyou for your comments. I hope it didn't come over as a blatant warning concerning the powdering of the cards. I am in no way claiming to be an authority on the way you should powder and prepare cards I am merely as I said explaining the way that works for me in the hope that someone just starting out or having difficulty with fanning cards will try and see if it works for them. Some people like to use loads of fanning powder and I have to say ( personally ) that yes you can overpowder cards.

Concerning Jerry "The Flourishman" he has a very good DVD out concerning the preparation of cards for general flourishes and fans on which he shows how to prepare cards , similar to myself , and I have again watched this DVD and he also does not use too much fanning powder.

It really is trial and error to find what works for yourself and also see what works for other people.

Obviously there will be people like yourself who feel that you should use loads of powder and I say if it works for you then use that method I am not trying to say that my method is the best and only way and I am sorry if it came over that way but that is not how it was intended.

Stuart Brown
British Magical Champion
Of Stage Manipulation 2007
Message: Posted by: trashmanf (Apr 21, 2008 03:15PM)
No problem there, I was only stating that because in many cases it can be advantageous to actually purposefully "over-powder" the cards... I believe that the cards reach a saturation point where they will simply not hold any more powder in their pores, and anything you apply beyond this amount will come off fairly quickly in break-in ... this is great for a performance because the extra powder comes off on your hands and forearms , keeping them dry for better aerials ! when you're trying to nail spinning armspread catches, this is very important!

I also find it can be nice to REALLY douse a deck in powder, keep it messy (don't knock off the excess), then when another deck needs a quick tune-up, simply do a faro push-thru shuffle with the two decks and it'll transfer a nice little amount of powder between them :)
Message: Posted by: EVILDAN (Jun 1, 2008 08:22PM)
One other method that I've heard of is to sprinkle a small amount of fanning powder on a sheet of glass. You then take the card and rub it over the glass. Not sure if you need to one side or two. I imagine that if you do one side, once you restack the deck and give a few riffle shuffles, it should distribute the powder to the other side.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Jun 23, 2008 12:41PM)
It was also discused here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=263350&forum=41&13
Message: Posted by: alibaba (Jun 29, 2009 10:51PM)
Well, to toss in my $00.02, I've tried virtually all the above-mentioned methods and the differences between them were so small (to me) that I've gone back to shaking and baking. I use a huge green rubbish bag, a very small amount of powder (couple of shakes), shake until done (twenty seconds or so, as Mr. Brown recommends). But after taking the cards out and arranging them, I go out into the yard and riffle them, both ends, until no more powder comes off.
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (Jul 12, 2009 06:17PM)
I scanned the posts and did not see it mentioned, but there is a device put out by a company called Delben. I own one. It is a wooden "box", lined with velveteen. The velveteen barely touches on the inside of the box and you sprinkle fanning powder (zinc stearate) on top of the box and slide the cards individually though the applicator. Takes me about a minute and a half to powder a deck. I could probably do it faster, just don't need to rush it. It applies the powder perfectly, uniformly and doesn't apply too much.

Don't know if they are around anymore. Mine is over 30 years old probably.
Message: Posted by: Tortuga (Jul 12, 2009 06:19PM)
Unless he put out some other make of card, Nielsen's cards were paper. I have two decks. Later, the same type card was put out with Lance Burton's image on them. Definitely paper and a flesh colored back. No apparent finish and they would not fan at all without powder.
Message: Posted by: Jia Truong (Oct 17, 2009 02:30AM)
Wow. I never knew there were so many ways to apply fanning powder. I just thought you put cards and a bit of fanning powder in a plastic bag and shake it up.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Oct 21, 2009 04:48AM)
[quote]
On 2009-10-17 03:30, Jia Truong wrote:
Wow. I never knew there were so many ways to apply fanning powder. I just thought you put cards and a bit of fanning powder in a plastic bag and shake it up.
[/quote]

Well, that's where this thread started: shake 'n' bake method.

My own thoughts on overpowdering the cards is that excess powder tends to come off with the first few shuffles. Thus the only real problem is waste--not that too much powder will ruin a good fan.

Having a cloud of the stuff in the air probably ain't a very good idea either, health-wise.

I asked a chemist friend what the stuff is and whether inhaling it would be dangerous, and he told me it's basically soap. (Maybe he said "detergent". It's been a long time since this conversation.) He said it shouldn't be dangerous. But you know how it is. I still don't like the idea of sucking detergent into my lungs on a regular basis.