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Topic: Stacked Major Arcana
Message: Posted by: mrehula (Jun 26, 2007 11:56AM)
I've found some interesting effects with Tarot cards (in Burger's Strange Ceremonies and Chelman's Carpicornian Tales). Chelman opened up what should have been obvious to me: a stacked tarot deck of the major arcana. He suggests a stack, but I'm wondering -- before I commit any stack to memory -- what kind of things I should consider.

Chelman's stack doesn't look mixed (which would make it easy to memorize). I've got the Aronson stack memorized, but with Tarot you don't stack for poker deals! I've searched past topics and they've been helpful, but I still want more information on tarot stacks. I could just shuffle and memorize a random stack, but I'd appreaciate any thoughts (here or PM) about stacks. Not just what stack you use with Tarot cards, but why.
Message: Posted by: JonWhite (Jun 26, 2007 01:32PM)
The "Book of Thoth" by Stephen Minch has an effect called The Justice of the Gypsies which is based on using the Major Arcana arranged in a Si Stebbins type style (& many thanks Baba for putting me onto this in the first place).

PM'ed you.
Message: Posted by: ptbeast (Jun 26, 2007 01:57PM)
I too use Minch's stack. It works very well.

Dave
Message: Posted by: Jerome Finley (Jun 26, 2007 02:27PM)
Paolo Cavalli's "Psychometrack" is absolutely incredible. Highly, HIGHLY recommended. It is the most convincing and powerful psychometry routine I have ever used. For me, it is the very best . . .

-J.
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Jun 26, 2007 03:46PM)
One I use all the time and is a guaranteed winner is ' QUINTASENSE ' from 'mind myth and magic', T.A Waters. this uses 25 cards and the matrix force. It gives a tarot reading prophecy and in the right hands can be quiet powerful. He credits stephen minches Fortunes of a wise fool from his book of thoth...
Message: Posted by: Allan Bright (Jun 28, 2007 02:11AM)
You can also use a Koran stack, works pretty well.
Message: Posted by: The Bean (Jun 28, 2007 11:19AM)
This stack that I'm talking about you will be able to use live and on the radio... I did and I got a GREAT response!
it's a si stebbins stack but with tarot cards... you see each tarot card has a number 0-21 they were stacked 0,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,2,5,8,11,14,17,20,1,4,7,10,13,16,19... and then back around...OMG its sheer genius!!! LOL!!! :) all I did was memorize the cards and their numbers... its really easy and fun 2 watch the great reactions that people give!!!! so ya um... feel free to ask me questions about it! got to go! buh-bye!!! :cuteangel:
Message: Posted by: Jon_Thompson (Jun 29, 2007 05:42AM)
Hello everyone. Great discussion. The Stebbins stack is something I've done a lot of analysis of. I perform a tarot reading routine using a stebbins-stacked Rider-Waite Major Arcana. I haymow the deck a symbolic number of times, have the spec cut the cards and take seven. I tell her that a real psychic doesn't need to see the cards, then go on to describe the ones she holds, their symbolism and their meaning for her. It's a complete shocker. :)
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Jan 20, 2008 12:12PM)
Interesting ideas. I've got to get out my Tarot and start to Faro!
Message: Posted by: Roth (Jan 20, 2008 04:43PM)
Carny Tarot is coming soon. Marked and one way. Hand aged 22 major arcana.
shameless plug #41


(if you have the witch book you know what the backs look like, except we added two more colors.)
shameless plug #42

RR
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 20, 2008 06:19PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-26 12:56, mrehula wrote:
I've found some interesting effects with Tarot cards (in Burger's Strange Ceremonies and Chelman's Carpicornian Tales). Chelman opened up what should have been obvious to me: a stacked tarot deck of the major arcana. He suggests a stack, but I'm wondering -- before I commit any stack to memory -- what kind of things I should consider.

Chelman's stack doesn't look mixed (which would make it easy to memorize). I've got the Aronson stack memorized, but with Tarot you don't stack for poker deals! I've searched past topics and they've been helpful, but I still want more information on tarot stacks. I could just shuffle and , memorize a random stack, but I'd appreaciate any thoughts (here or PM) about stacks. Not just what stack you use with Tarot cards, but why.
[/quote]

For a set routine, I'd say a stack is a great thing. Choose your favorite!

For "readings" I wouldn't bother. Culling cards, Magician's Choice, and a false shuffle/cut will serve you much better for the "on-the-fly", impromptu nature of a reading. Heck, even just a "gift of gab" can make you seem like an Enlightened Master- if that's the route you want to go...

Tarot cards are not playing cards and I think most people perceive a difference between the two. You can get away with stuff with a tarot deck that would make regular card guys form a lynch mod against you.

Exactly what did you have in mind?
Message: Posted by: christiancagigal (Jan 21, 2008 03:14PM)
If it's the effect I'm thinking of in Capricornian-I've done the effect with my own stack. No real change just a set that I myself could remember. No one ever questioned whether they were stacked. I don't think people think of Tarot that way.

I actually start with the Chelman effect stacked on top of the Minor Arcana in Si-Stebbin's (minus the Page cards). I talk about the history of cards. Show a few faces in a spread. Again it's just a spread of colors no real patter to quickly spot.
I finish my speech with a casual false cut and then invite the member of the audience to give cards a cut as well. I do the cross-cut force.

Talk a bit more and then go to my top stack and quickly and casually hand out the smaller stacks to the five individuals. In other words I force the Chelman Stack(I hope you get what I mean if you own Capricornian.)

When done with those cards and that effect-which plays really strong by the way, I set those aside back into the nice wooden box from which they came and continue with the Minor's and do a short set of Si Stebbins effects divining peoples cards and thoughts more quickly and directly.

As part of a regular magic show you might have to worry about people crying out 'cheater' or 'you have them memormized' .

In the context of mentalism/bizarre you should be ok.

-C
Message: Posted by: Magicmike1949 (Feb 17, 2008 12:37PM)
Seems to me that somewhere towards the end of Tarot routine a haunted pack effect might be really powerful.
Message: Posted by: sparks (Feb 18, 2008 04:41PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-20 17:43, Roth wrote:
Carny Tarot is coming soon. Marked and one way. Hand aged 22 major arcana.
shameless plug #41


(if you have the witch book you know what the backs look like, except we added two more colors.)
shameless plug #42

RR
[/quote]

Fantastic! Just what I need... let us know when we can pre-order.
Message: Posted by: psychic (Feb 26, 2008 10:47AM)
I am sooooo glad Outlaw is releasing the Carny Tarot for all of us bizzarists and readers out there ....

Please Rick, please ... you gotta limit the releases...
Message: Posted by: Dr Mage (Feb 26, 2008 11:51AM)
Any word on when we will see these?
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Oct 6, 2019 06:25PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2007, The Bean wrote:
This stack that I'm talking about you will be able to use live and on the radio... I did and I got a GREAT response!
it's a si stebbins stack but with tarot cards... you see each tarot card has a number 0-21 they were stacked 0,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,2,5,8,11,14,17,20,1,4,7,10,13,16,19... and then back around...OMG its sheer genius!!! LOL!!! :) all I did was memorize the cards and their numbers... its really easy and fun 2 watch the great reactions that people give!!!! so ya um... feel free to ask me questions about it! got to go! buh-bye!!! :cuteangel: [/quote]
The Si Stebbins Major Arcana stack was written up in a magic periodical, The Snake-Oil Almanack. Either in 1990 or 1991.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 6, 2019 09:07PM)
[quote]On Oct 6, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
[quote]On Jun 28, 2007, The Bean wrote:
This stack that I'm talking about you will be able to use live and on the radio... I did and I got a GREAT response!
it's a si stebbins stack but with tarot cards... you see each tarot card has a number 0-21 they were stacked 0,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,2,5,8,11,14,17,20,1,4,7,10,13,16,19... and then back around...OMG its sheer genius!!! LOL!!! :) all I did was memorize the cards and their numbers... its really easy and fun 2 watch the great reactions that people give!!!! so ya um... feel free to ask me questions about it! got to go! buh-bye!!! :cuteangel: [/quote]
The Si Stebbins Major Arcana stack was written up in a magic periodical, The Snake-Oil Almanack. Either in 1990 or 1991. [/quote]
The Bean was only 12 when she wrote her post in 2007. She's my daughter and she actually came up with the idea after I taught her the Si-Stebbins .. Smart and gifted child. Miss her being underfoot!!!!! :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Oct 7, 2019 08:48AM)
Slim, it isn't the first time nor the last time the same idea has been discovered independently.
It would not be surprising that others had used the stack but never shared it.
The Bean has a brilliant mind and you know what they say... An apple does not fall far from the tree.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Oct 7, 2019 08:58AM)
[quote]On Oct 7, 2019, Wravyn wrote:
Slim, it isn't the first time nor the last time the same idea has been discovered independently.
It would not be surprising that others had used the stack but never shared it.
The Bean has a brilliant mind and you know what they say... An apple does not fall far from the tree. [/quote]

You are correct. More than one patent has had multiple applications for the same or similar device around the same time, sometimes by only a few hours.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 7, 2019 03:36PM)
Thanks .. You got it!!!!!! I'm just proud she is thinking like a Mentalist!!!! She recently did a Mind Reading stunt in her job application interview .. Got the gig hands down. :dancing: :dancing:
They asked her if there was anything special that they should consider for her employment .. She said "Shure. I'm a Mind Reader from a long line of Mind Readers, I can read peoples minds under various conditions!"
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Oct 7, 2019 04:35PM)
[quote]On Oct 7, 2019, Slim King wrote:
Thanks .. You got it!!!!!! I'm just proud she is thinking like a Mentalist!!!! She recently did a Mind Reading stunt in her job application interview .. Got the gig hands down. :dancing: :dancing:
They asked her if there was anything special that they should consider for her employment .. She said "Shure. I'm a Mind Reader from a long line of Mind Readers, I can read peoples minds under various conditions!" [/quote]

I love it.
Message: Posted by: Wravyn (Oct 7, 2019 06:29PM)
[quote]On Oct 7, 2019, Slim King wrote:
Thanks .. You got it!!!!!! I'm just proud she is thinking like a Mentalist!!!! She recently did a Mind Reading stunt in her job application interview .. Got the gig hands down. :dancing: :dancing:
They asked her if there was anything special that they should consider for her employment .. She said "Shure. I'm a Mind Reader from a long line of Mind Readers, I can read peoples minds under various conditions!" [/quote]
:heavymetal: :dancing:
Message: Posted by: dclxvinyc (Jan 25, 2020 08:13PM)
I'd like to chime in -- I do a three phased tarot routine with the major arcana that was inspired by Doc Shiels.

First, my "stack" is keeping the major arcana in 0-21 order. That's it. I do true cuts, reveal a card or two, explain the interpretations, even spread them ITH face up. No one, not even dyed-in-the-wool tarot people, think of the cards as having an order like playing cards do.

Allowing the spectator to cut the cards, spread them and select one is perfectly deceptive. Cut at the selection, glimpse the bottom card and there you go.

I have seen a few decks of the major arcana where the number isn't printed along with the name and image. This could maybe be of interest to some. But I have to stress again: I've done effects for new-agers and "psychics" who don't catch on that the arcana is in order. There isn't any need to make things harder than they need to be.

Another fun fact: if you come up with a nice script for explaining the meaning of each card in a succinct way, you can set up the stack openly in front of the spectator as part of your patter in under 90 seconds.

Shuffling is not as necessary as with regular cards. I find that a false hindu shuffle and some true cuts are all that are needed. Remember, when you're doing Tarot routines, there is so much less heat on you as a performer because the focus has been shifted to the spectator. By making it about them, they're more anxious to see the reading and experience the mystery than obsessed with burning you.

Another important point to consider -- the major arcana of every deck I've ever seen will function as a ONE WAY deck ON THE FACE.
So immediately following a stack effect, the spectator can make a true selection and be given the cards to shuffle.

Things like Jean Hugard's "Psychic Stop!" in the spectator's hands and the cross cut force have so much more resonance when done with tarot.


---------

I could see a stack being a consideration if you were using the major and minor arcana as NDO would be way too transparent.
But please remember, there are people -- tens of thousands of people -- who make good money and captivate their audiences using Tarot cards and and absolutely zero magic tricks. So approaching these styles of magic with a better understanding of the Tarot and what the audience expects and brining only a little magic to it will go a very long way.



----

TL;DR: stack 0-21, true cuts and a false hindu. Don't worry so much. There's no heat.


Best,
-alex