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Topic: Phsycological Forces...
Message: Posted by: magicboy111 (Feb 8, 2002 06:02PM)
Hello Everyone,

I am aware that there are some forces, that are used in a psychological way, to influence the spec to pick a certain card. I am aware of only one psychological way, to have a spectator stop dealing, right before he reaches his own card, but was wondering if anyone knew of ways to spread the cards in a way to influence a spec to pick a card (other than spreading that card more than the others...), or any other way, such as timing, to influence a selection.

Thanks in Advance,

Message: Posted by: Julien (Feb 8, 2002 07:24PM)
Buy Green's videotape on the classic force.
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Feb 8, 2002 08:02PM)
Thanks Julian,

The idea of forcing a card in a psychological way has been discussed for a long time. Obviously, if the spectator feels as if he or she has been manipulated, then the value of the force has been compromised.

My technique for the Classic Force is based on apparently having the card selected in a non-manipulative way.

Whether it is the Classic or the "3rd from the right" techniques, it should appear as if there is no manipultion.

Good luck in your search.


Paul Green
Message: Posted by: Gary Alford (Feb 9, 2002 03:38AM)
Derren Brown shows some psychological forces on his new video. If you read them in a book it would not have the same impact as seeing him do them. However I don't think these would work 100% of the time. You would also need to have a certain forceful manner and so would not be for everyone. Excellent to see though!
Also try dealing the cards down slowly one at a time and timing it so the spectator says stop on the 7th card. Not hard, but you do need an out if it fails.
Message: Posted by: magicboy111 (Feb 9, 2002 02:25PM)
Well thanks guys,

Very nice to meet all of you, and Paul Green, I was thinking of getting the classic force video from magicsmith, It is definitely worth 30 bucks for a force that almost always works, under any conditions, and I guess it has ways to work with uncooperative specs, sounds really good. The force I know of that is semi-phsychological, and semi-luck, consists of getting the specs card to the tenth position from the top, having them deal them into your hand, telling them to stop anywhere, on the third card telling them to go faster, and the 5 telling them to stop anytime, works about 95 percent of the time with normal specs, and about 40 or so with other magis. Of course, you use a side steal if it doesn't work out.

Thanks again guys,

Corey Herndon
Message: Posted by: andyhurst (Feb 9, 2002 03:04PM)
On 2002-02-09 04:38, Gary Alford wrote:
Also try dealing the cards down slowly one at a time and timing it so the spectator says stop on the 7th card. Not hard, but you do need an out if it fails.

Ken Krenzel has the best outs for that in Close-up Impact.

Andy Hurst
An Alternative Magic Magazine!
Message: Posted by: Allan Olive (Feb 11, 2002 11:43AM)
Mark Mason has a video our called "Real World Magic", Volume 2. It has several effects on it, but he also has his thoughts on what he calls his "attitude force".

Prior to learning it, I did not even do a classic force. His technique works great and gets them every time.

Message: Posted by: Joe M. Turner (Feb 11, 2002 11:51AM)
Howie Marmer offers a set of lecture notes on the mental force.

This is an admittedly "out there" force based on his experiences with certain visualization techniques. It's very ethereal but he claims 85% success with it and has demonstrated it. He lectured on it briefly at the South Carolina Association of Magicians convention last month.

and you should be able to find an email address to get in touch with him. Tell him I sent you. This is not a "handling" or technique -- again, it's strictly mental and I was/am still admittedly quite skeptical. But for some of you, this may be your cup of tea.
Message: Posted by: Fon (Feb 12, 2002 05:04AM)
The clasic force is a very natural looking/feeling force.

Well worth the practice,

Message: Posted by: Rolando Santos (Feb 12, 2002 05:19AM)
Howie's force is excellent and mind blowing.--though it requires a great deal of confidence in what you are doing.
He does it very well.

Spanish Magician, Rafael Benatar is also working on a similar totally mental force.

He has been working on it for several years. You may be able to get him to help you with this topic.
Message: Posted by: magicboy111 (Feb 15, 2002 11:34PM)
Hello Rolando,

I was wondering if you could let me know how to get in touch with this man, it would be very helpful. Also, does he speak some English? This would also be helpful!...lol I know quite a bit of Spanish, but just wanted to know. Well, thanks, you are looking to be a very knowledgable, and legitimate magician to ask questions...

Message: Posted by: Joe M. Turner (Feb 16, 2002 07:41AM)

Rolando is great. You all should be jealous that I've got him here in town with me!

Hey Rolando -- I'm looking forward to San Diego! :)

Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Feb 16, 2002 04:46PM)

Rafael Benetar's English is excellent. He has a series of three videos from A-1 Magicalmedia called "The Elegant Card Magic of Rafael Benetar." They are very good.
Message: Posted by: Julien (Feb 17, 2002 12:24AM)
Benatar happens to participate in the Genii forum, I guess you could try to contact him there if you wish so...

The url is:
Message: Posted by: Rolando Santos (Feb 17, 2002 02:09PM)
On 2002-02-16 00:34, magicboy111 wrote:
Hello Rolando,

I was wondering if you could let me know how to get in touch with this man, it would be very helpful. Also, does he speak some English?


Rafa, as I call him, speaks excellent English and has several videos out. He is part of the Genii forum at Geniimagazine.com That's the best way to get in contact with him.

although I tell you what --- Send me an email with a note to him at rolando.santos @ cnn.com, I will forward it to him.

I am not comfortable giving his out to general distribution without his permission.

He is a super friendly guy, but I like to protects people's privacy.

And thanks for the compliment.


Hey Rolando -- I'm looking forward to San Diego!


me too--- This will be two in a row for the Laurel and Hardy look a likes from Atlanta.

Message: Posted by: Mr Secret-ary (Feb 18, 2002 04:37PM)
I hesitate to open my mouth in such illustrious company, but it is on-topic to mention the psy force using a small row of cards. Attributed to Vernon I think, and mentioned in Paul Clive's Card Tricks Without Skil. However, having viewed Derren's extraordinary efforts today, one card out of five suddenly seems a bit lame... :fruity: