(Close Window)
Topic: Clocking a Deck, The Epitome Location, Etc.
Message: Posted by: sgrossberg (Aug 2, 2007 10:39PM)
There has been a lot of discussion surround various effects that involve clocking the deck. Perhaps it would be interesting if we could compile a list of effects that utilize this principle(s) (similar to the phenomenal job that Scott Cram has done on his site with Memory Effects).

As some background, here is what I have been able to reconstruct from an historical perspective:

1888 - Kunard's "Book of Card Tricks" describes a casting-out-13's system.

1905 - Satya Ranjan Roy provides a technique for one pass through of the deck that produces both the value and color of the card removed by the spectator. It appeared in the March 1905 issue of Stanyon's Magic. Neither the 10's or 13's approach is used.

1937 - Joe Berg releases his "Coincidental Location" effect in "Here's New Magic." Although I have not seen this effect, in print, I am informed it involved a casting-out-10's approach.

1950 - Charles Jordan's effect, "The Memory Test," appears in "Scarne on Card Tricks" and discusses a rudimentary casting-out-10's approach with the concept that court cards are given a ½ value (e.g., Jack - 1 1/2, Queen - 2 1/2, King - 3 1/2).

1976 - "The Epitome Location" is originally published by Harry Lorayne. He references the casting-out-13's system which is, as he puts it, "older than you and I." The casting-out-10's system is then fully explored.

1982 - Fulves publishes his "Card Counting" book. It references the casting-out-10's system but spends most of the time focused on casting-out-13's.

2005 - "Lorayne: The Classic Collection" is published with, among other things, republication of and refinements/additions to TEL.

Finally, take a look at the following Genii thread from 2001-2003 (and note the people who contributed to that thread):

http://geniimagazine.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000002

As far as effects, I offer the following obviously incomplete list:

"An Amazing Memory" - J.W. Sarles' version of Jordan/Scarne "The Memory Test." "Card Counting," Karl Fulves.

"Commitment" - Performer looks at the deck and claims to be committing every card to memory. Spectator is handed the deck, selects a card, and then displaces its order in the deck. The performer is able to determine the card. As Fulves claims, "the deck may be borrowed and need not be complete." "Card Counting," Karl Fulves.

"Indexed Poker" - With the performer's back turned, the spectator removes any straight flush from the deck and hides it in his pocket. The performer turns around, looks through the deck and is able to reveal all five cards removed. "Card Counting," Karl Fulves.

"The Memory Test" - Performer gives a memory demonstration with the spectator shuffling the deck and cutting it into two piles. One pile is chosen for memorization and, after the performer scans the cards, he turns away. The spectator selects one card from the memorized group and puts it in his pocket. The performer is able to tell which card was chosen. "Scarne on Card Tricks," Charles Jordan.

"No Sleight Stalemate" - Two spectators' chosen cards are determined by the performer. "The Epitome Location," Harry Lorayne.

"Novel Memory Trick with Cards" - Satya Ranjan Roy's effect where a card is taken from the deck and the performer is able to glance at the deck only once and determine both the suit and value of the card chosen. "Card Counting," Karl Fulves.

"Parallax II" - A hidden card is revealed before the performer gets to the end of the deck. "Card Counting," Karl Fulves.

"Poker Face" - A freely selected card is remembered and placed in a spectator's pocket. The deck is shuffled and, after dealing poker hands, the performer is able to determine the mate of the chosen card. "The Epitome Location," Harry Lorayne.

"Triple Mate" - Three spectators’ chosen cards are determined by the performer. "The Epitome Location," Harry Lorayne.

Any suggestions from anyone else? - Scott
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Aug 2, 2007 11:50PM)
The Memory Expert Outdone by Frank Garcia, The Close-up Magic Part 1 (Frank Garcia, 1982).

The Magi's Detection by Charles Jordan, Encyclopedia of Card Tricks (Jean Hugard, 1038).

Move a Card by Morris Sidenstein, Miracles of Morris Sidenstein (William Miesel, ?).

Speed Limit by Gavin Ross, Impromptu Card Magic (Aldo Colombini, 2003).

I contributed a method to count values and suits in one counting in some issue of MAGIC magazine but forgot which issue.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Aug 3, 2007 08:41AM)
Great references, thanks guys!
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Aug 3, 2007 09:09AM)
Re: Having spec. remove ANY five cards - one run-through of deck, or cards are called off to you RAPIDLY, see HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY, 1956! I've taught it in other books through the years. Has nothing to do with "clocking." hl
Message: Posted by: Denis Behr (Aug 3, 2007 04:28PM)
Fulves' publications that focus on card counting are [i]The Parallel Principle[/i] (1979), [i]Parallel Lines[/i] (1980), [i]Card Counting[/i] (1982/2005) and most recently [i]Clockwork[/i] (2005).

(Other current effects include effects by Aronson ([i]Aronson Approach[/i]), Marlo ([i]Marlo's Magazine 6[/i]), Hartling ([i]Little Green Lecture[/i]).)

Denis
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 3, 2007 08:49PM)
Didn't Martin Gardner discuss a method where you used your feet, in [i]Mathematics, Magic, Mystery[/i]?

Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: uri (Aug 4, 2007 10:51AM)
Pit Hartling has an application of this strategy in his "Little Green Lecture notes" called "Triathlon". It's a triple impossible location of a peeked card, a thought of card, and a card that was placed unseen in the spectator's pocket.

A related strategy is provided by Rusduck in "Scarne on card tricks" where the performer and spectator randomly remove cards from a face up spread until just one remains by which the magician claims to deduce the identity of a previously removed card.

Both of these references are out of my posession right now so I can't provide further information regarding dates, pages and the name of the Rusduck trick.
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Aug 5, 2007 09:55PM)
More information :

1. Casting '13' in Clocking was introduced in "Greater Magic" by J.N.Hilliard (1938).

2. Casting '20' is written in "Mathematics Magic and Myster" by Martin Gardner (1956).

3. Charles Jordan's totaling different suites in different digits was mentioned in above Gardner's book.

4. Rusduck method mentioned by uri-san above was first appeared in "Phoenix #77" (1945).

5. There is a similar method like Rusduck method. That was in an old French book I forgot its name. In that method, magician takes a card by card from face up piles on the table, and can guess missing card after picking up all cards.

Hideo Kato

Although some likes casting 10, others like casting 13 or 20, casting 30 has a different function than others. You can detect if one card was taken from the pile or added to the pile by casting 30.
Message: Posted by: themagicofdrew (Aug 6, 2007 09:50PM)
How about Tap a Lak? A classic from Mr. Paul Cummins, published in Magic Magazine July 2005 as well as the TSD freebie from that same year...The effect is INCREDIBLE
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Aug 6, 2007 10:52PM)
Yes, 'Tap a Lak' is a very nice trick.
Maybe it will be better if you don't look the card when spectator pick out to guess your selection. After he picked out a card, he hide it somewhere. If you are allowed to see it (back of it), you can do the effect more directly with a Marked Deck.

In this trick, Casting 10 works very fine as you only need to clock black cards. And Clocking proceedure is well covered by the presentation.

One more alteration : Maybe you'd better detect spectator's selection when you act to select your card. Thus the deck can be shuffled.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: closeupcardician (Aug 17, 2007 07:00PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-06 22:50, themagicofdrew wrote:
How about Tap a Lak? A classic from Mr. Paul Cummins, published in Magic Magazine July 2005 as well as the TSD freebie from that same year...The effect is INCREDIBLE
[/quote]

I just saw him do this live and it's a killer.
Message: Posted by: Mark Wood (Mar 20, 2013 07:47PM)
Re Paul Cummins Tap A Lack, if you email Paul at pcummins@fasdiu.com he very generously will send you a copy of the routine.

Mark.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Mar 21, 2013 01:08PM)
You can add to the publication list:

2010 - "Tick Tock Too: Card Clocking for Connoisseurs", from [i][url=http://www.deceptionary.com/tricyclic.html]Tricyclic[/url],[/i] by Doug Dyment (Deceptionary.com, pp. 35–39)
Message: Posted by: Mark Wood (Mar 21, 2013 02:56PM)
[quote]
On 2013-03-21 14:08, ddyment wrote:
You can add to the publication list:

2010 - "Tick Tock Too: Card Clocking for Connoisseurs", from [i][url=http://www.deceptionary.com/tricyclic.html]Tricyclic[/url],[/i] by Doug Dyment (Deceptionary.com, pp. 35–39)
[/quote]

Hi Doug,

Is this in the form of a book or PDF?

Best.

Mark
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Mar 21, 2013 06:55PM)
Mark asked:[quote]Is this in the form of a book or PDF?[/quote]
All of [url=http://www.deceptionary.com/]my publications[/url] are proper books; I don't release PDFs.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Mar 21, 2013 07:36PM)
Thanks God ... :) Jan
Message: Posted by: Mark Wood (May 2, 2013 05:16PM)
The Epitome Location by Harry Lorayne PDF.

Product Details
The Epitome Location is a treatise on one of Harry Lorayne's most versatile card creations. This principle allows you to identify a card that has been selected from the deck under any conditions. It provides a fantastic out to use with challenging spectators and makes for a powerful magician fooler.



The Epitome Location has never before been offered as a PDF download. The Conjuring Arts Research Center is proud to have partnered up with Harry Lorayne to be the exclusive retailer of this exciting, new format.

http://shop.conjuringarts.org/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=330&idcategory=82#details

Best,

Mark
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 2, 2013 05:46PM)
You can order the PDFs directly from me, of course. Go to my personal email address - first one listed under this post - for a list of them all, prices, etc. HL.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Dec 7, 2019 12:13PM)
Did anyone see Ondrej Psenicka perform on Penn and Teller his second time. It looked like he did this type of routine but with lightning speed. I can speed the deck in about 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oj0tR6UQ8

Best,

Steve
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Dec 18, 2019 09:10AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2019, Steven Conner wrote:
Did anyone see Ondrej Psenicka perform on Penn and Teller his second time. It looked like he did this type of routine but with lightning speed. I can speed the deck in about 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oj0tR6UQ8

Best,

Steve [/quote]
Yes, it could be clocking, Steve. Or...something along the lines of Ben Harris X-Ray, if you know what I mean. Then Ondrej would only need to search for one out of five (or maybe six) cards. Look at the selection process again and tell me what you think!
Message: Posted by: Andy Moss (Feb 22, 2020 06:17AM)
It would be wonderful to have such an agile brain that one could clock simply by riffling through a face down Boris Wild deck, or by ribbon spreading the cards face down on a surface.

I wonder what the speed record would be for that! In theory it must be possible due to the convenient locations of the markings on the cards. In practice perhaps this is only possible for the superhuman!
Message: Posted by: Chollet (Mar 17, 2020 11:41PM)
Add to the list "Diplopia" by Paul Vigil. Fantastic use of clocking along with a few other ruses to ease the process, albeit only slightly.
Message: Posted by: uzimaki35 (Mar 24, 2020 07:37AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2019, Steven Conner wrote:
Did anyone see Ondrej Psenicka perform on Penn and Teller his second time. It looked like he did this type of routine but with lightning speed. I can speed the deck in about 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oj0tR6UQ8

Best,

Steve [/quote]

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/card-magic/butterfly-deck-ondrej-psenicka/
Message: Posted by: kardillusions (Mar 30, 2020 10:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 4, 2007, uri wrote:
Pit Hartling has an application of this strategy in his "Little Green Lecture notes" called "Triathlon". It's a triple impossible location of a peeked card, a thought of card, and a card that was placed unseen in the spectator's pocket.[/quote]

This also sounds exactly like the description of Simon Aronson's "Two Minds and a Mate" from the Aronson Approach.
Message: Posted by: Powell (Apr 27, 2020 06:55PM)
Is anyone who is suggesting "clocking" able to do actually do it nearly as fast as they assume Psenicka is? I've been practicing for over 600 hours and I have a hit rate of only about 75% at 45 seconds in the quiet of my own practice room. I think it's naive for anyone to think it could be done that fast, consistently, under "Fool US" kind of pressure.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Apr 27, 2020 09:14PM)
Clocking speed is very much a function of the actual technique being used. As I discuss in my piece in [i]Tricyclic[/i], deck clocking is a technique that has evolved much over the years.

Paul Vigil's "Diplopia", for example, popularized the methodology published by Harry Lorayne in his [i]The Epitome Location[/i], which was certainly the epitome in 1976, but significant improvements have been made since then. If you have not read Karl Fulves' [i]The Parallel Principle[/i] (1970) and my own "Tick Tock Too" (2010), you haven't seen the level to which this technique has been brought.

The late Barrie Richardson wrote, "For many years I used rote memory to find cards missing from a deck because I could not clock a deck with speed -- or confidence. [Doug's] approach opens up many new avenues. [He is] the brightest person I know."
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Apr 29, 2020 01:46PM)
If you learned y missing card stunt in one of the few book in which I teach it - you can have someone remove any five cards, call off the other 47 cards RAPIDLY - and you'll know the five missing cards as you go through all in your mind. Start reading the good stuff, guys!!

Oh, and I've seen NO improvements to my The Epitome Location.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Apr 29, 2020 02:38PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2020, Harry Lorayne wrote:
If you learned y missing card stunt in one of the few book in which I teach it - you can have someone remove any five cards, call off the other 47 cards RAPIDLY - and you'll know the five missing cards as you go through all in your mind. Start reading the good stuff, guys!!

Oh, and I've seen NO improvements to my The Epitome Location. [/quote]

Hi Harry, couldn't agree more. As you know I've been using your systems for years and appreciate being mentioned in your book, Memory Makes Money.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Apr 30, 2020 06:11PM)
Harry Lorayne wrote:[quote]... I've seen NO improvements to my The Epitome Location.[/quote]
Perfectly understandable, and nothing to feel concerned about. There are hundreds of magical creators, and scores of outlets for their creations, so it's pretty much impossible to keep abreast of everything.

Deck clocking is a technique that dates back to 1744, and has been written about many times since then (there are 54 mentions in [i]Potter's Master Index[/i] alone). In recent years, though, there have been four significant improvements to the original method, each of which involves some piece of cleverness to simplify the arithmetic that must be done in one's head.

In 1975, James Randi revealed the first improvement, which can be found in Marvin Kaye's [i]The Handbook of Mental Magic.[/i]

Harry's [i]The Epitome Location[/i] dramatically advanced the art in 1976, and remained the standard for some time. It is likely that more people know this technique through Harry's typically excellent teaching than any other approach. But it's not only the exposition that is good: there were also significant advances in dealing with the math.

In 1979, Karl Fulves added another piece to the puzzle in his [i]The Shamrock Code / The Parallel Principle[/i], simplifying the math even further.

Finally, I published in the January 1981 issue of the Psychic Entertainers Association journal [i]PSYCHIKOS[/i] yet another simplification of the mathematics. This was reprinted (in expanded form) in the publicly available [i]Tricyclic[/i] in 2010.

To my knowledge, nothing has been added to the methodology since then, though none of us can lay claim to knowing everything that's out there!
Message: Posted by: The_MetalMaster (May 1, 2020 10:18PM)
I've been practicing this all day! I first came to this technique after reading Simon Aronson's Two Minds and a Mate from the Aronson Approach book. I went and bought Harry's Epitome Location book which helped simplify it but I was still having trouble with the addition and always coming up wrong. Today I came across Doug's mention of his way in his Tricycic book which I have. With practice, rereading Harry's book, and reading Doug's book I think I've finally got the hang of it. Very excited with the possibilities with this.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (May 7, 2020 05:10AM)
Thanks Doug for your informed post, great information as always.
BTW, I found that Fulves' "Line of Sight" (in Clockworks) helps increasing the clocking speed immensely. Sure, you need a quick preparation but especially when clocking a full deck the tiny 'intervention' might be well worth the hassle.
Message: Posted by: hcs (May 11, 2020 11:44AM)
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the method I learned in the late 1960 years from an old gambler in Germany. In my childhood, "Schorsch" teaches me a lot.

In the last centuries in Germany existed a vibrant culture of card gaming. In any German pub (Kneipe), one could, until the 1990 years officially play card games like Skat, Doppelkopf, and Schafkopf. Every severe card player could do mentally the necessary clocking work in this games during the game. Skat and Schafkopf have an overall count of 120, Doppelkopf of 240. Skat is an German national heritage!

This way, I'm sure that my Clocking the Deck approach goes back to the First World War, maybe it is older.

No casting out of 13! Not slower and complicated than the discussed calculation approaches.
Nevertheless, ALL values are identifiable in half the deck (red or black) as well as in the complete deck! No fishing for values!
The determination of the suit is extremely simple since a maximum of one (half deck), or three cards (full deck) of the determined value must be checked.

I will write a small script, "The Mingau Location," about this clocking the deck method.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (May 12, 2020 06:34AM)
Sounds great, hcs.
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (May 14, 2020 04:31AM)
[quote]On May 11, 2020, hcs wrote:
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the method I learned in the late 1960 years from an old gambler in Germany. In my childhood, "Schorsch" teaches me a lot.

In the last centuries in Germany existed a vibrant culture of card gaming. In any German pub (Kneipe), one could, until the 1990 years officially play card games like Skat, Doppelkopf, and Schafkopf. Every severe card player could do mentally the necessary clocking work in this games during the game. Skat and Schafkopf have an overall count of 120, Doppelkopf of 240. Skat is an German national heritage!

This way, I'm sure that my Clocking the Deck approach goes back to the First World War, maybe it is older.

No casting out of 13! Not slower and complicated than the discussed calculation approaches.
Nevertheless, ALL values are identifiable in half the deck (red or black) as well as in the complete deck! No fishing for values!
The determination of the suit is extremely simple since a maximum of one (half deck), or three cards (full deck) of the determined value must be checked.

I will write a small script, "The Mingau Location," about this clocking the deck method. [/quote]

Sounds really good. Let us know when we can check it out!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jun 20, 2020 04:39PM)
Coming soon - in in the first week of July.
Stay tuned!
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Jun 29, 2020 04:19AM)
Can't wait.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jun 30, 2020 11:23AM)
I just finished the ebook I promised. The following is the table of contents:

Gaukelwerk with Cards
by Dr. Hans-Christian Solka

Table of Contents

I The Mingau Location

1 History 1
2 Key Aspects 2
2.1 Card Count Values 2
2.2 Count Value Examples 3
2.3 Missing Card Detection 3
3 Detection Examples 4
3.1 Red Card Detection 1, Half-Deck 4
3.2 Red Card Detection 2, Half-Deck 4
3.3 Black Card Detection, Half-Deck 5
3.4 Red Card Detection, Full Deck 5
3.5 Full Deck Detection 6

II The Mingau Cull

1 Application 9
2 Technique 9
3 Example 10

III The Hans False Shuffle

1 Handling 13
2 Alternative Handling 14

IV The Solka Location

1 A Real Clocking Thing 17
2 Card Count Values 17
3 Count Value Examples 18
4 Missing Card Detection 19
5 Detection Examples 19
5.1 Red Card Detection 1, Half-Deck 19
5.2 Red Card Detection 2, Half-Deck 20
5.3 Black Card Detection, Half-Deck 20
5.4 Red Card Detection, Full Deck 20

About 20 pages, pdf-file, A4-format
I just finished the ebook I promised. The following is the table of contents:
About 20 pages, pdf-file, A4-format
Available directly from the author until July 8th, 2020.
Send 5,00 USD via PayPal to ozmd(at)solka.de and note your email-address!
Usually, I will send you the file within 24 hours.

Best regards
Hans-Christian
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jun 30, 2020 01:53PM)
This pdf offered by hcs is excellent. If you have any interest in this topic, I would recommend it. It's way underpriced.
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Jun 30, 2020 02:34PM)
The Hans False shuffle (page 13 and 14) is a very easy (but deceptive!) false shuffle that is very interesting for memdeck workers.
The whole deck stays in order!

The "Solka location" I still have to read but it looks promising at first site.
Message: Posted by: pnerd (Jun 30, 2020 02:45PM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2020, hcs wrote:
Available directly from the author until July 8th, 2020.
Send 5,00 USD via PayPal to ozmd(at)solka.de and note your email-address![/quote]
Sadly, PayPal is not available in my country. Is there any other way to pay, for example, with a credit card?
.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jun 30, 2020 02:47PM)
Dear friends,

You will receive your ebook as an email with an attachment within 24 hrs of us receiving payment.
Please let me know if you do not receive your ebook within 24 hrs of ordering.

Important! I received payments without an email address.
Please let me know your email address, otherwise I couldn't send you the ebook!

Thank you for understanding.
Hans-Christian
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Jun 30, 2020 03:10PM)
This is a most incredible advancement in this type of effect. Not hard to learn, and really amazing how fast you will get it. I give it 5 stars.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jun 30, 2020 03:14PM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2020, pnerd wrote:
[quote]On Jun 30, 2020, hcs wrote:
Available directly from the author until July 8th, 2020.
Send 5,00 USD via PayPal to ozmd(at)solka.de and note your email-address![/quote]
Sadly, PayPal is not available in my country. Is there any other way to pay, for example, with a credit card?
. [/quote]
I'm sure that the ebook will be available next week at Lybrary.com
Chris Wasshuber accepts credit cards.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 1, 2020 06:54AM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2020, Steven Conner wrote:
This is a most incredible advancement in this type of effect. Not hard to learn, and really amazing how fast you will get it. I give it 5 stars.

Best

Steve [/quote]Thank you very much for your kind words!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 1, 2020 07:06AM)
[quote]On Jun 30, 2020, Waterloophai wrote:
The Hans False shuffle (page 13 and 14) is a very easy (but deceptive!) false shuffle that is very interesting for memdeck workers.
The whole deck stays in order!

The "Solka location" I still have to read but it looks promising at first site. [/quote]Thank you very much for your kind words!
I use the Hans False Shuffle - it is not a usual shuffle - as a card display under the guise to explain the french suits to the German public (sometimes the public is only familiar with german card suits). This way, I'm able to maintain my stacked deck of jumbo cards.
Message: Posted by: Pasteboard Alchemist (Jul 1, 2020 11:52AM)
The Solka Location took me a bit longer to get used to (compared to the Mingau Location, explained early I the PDF, which I was able to pic up instantly given that it's close to what I already do) but, once I did and got accustomed to the huge amount of cards I can ignore and that cancel each other out, I can see how this will be more speedy than my current method once I put the time into it.

I'll echo what Hans said about his shuffle in the above post by adding: it really is more of a "display" than a shuffle. While I wouldn't ever use it in place of one of my go-to false shuffles, there are specific instances where I want to show faces (or, for that matter, show a some-face-up-some-face-down "mixed" situation) where this would work well, and give the added benefit of looking like you're further shuffling the deck.
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (Jul 1, 2020 03:40PM)
I must have missed the link. How do we get this?
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Jul 1, 2020 04:02PM)
Bobby,

There's a pay pal address above on where to send it( 5 threads up). Is it $5
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (Jul 2, 2020 08:59PM)
[quote]On Jul 1, 2020, magicthree wrote:
Bobby,

There's a pay pal address above on where to send it( 5 threads up). Is it $5 [/quote]

Appreciate it my man.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 4, 2020 01:21PM)
Here's a little something that might help out with this or other methods of clocking.

In a lot of these kinds of methods you have to do another pass, to further eliminate some possible candidates.

For example, suppose in the first pass you've narrowed down the missing card to either Jack, Queen, King of Spades or Jack, Queen, King of Clubs. With a second pass you're supposed to keep track of which five cards you see, and then by process of elimination you would know the sixth.

I found I was having difficulty with this part--I couldn't keep track of what I had seen.

So I came up with this method which made it very easy for me. Maybe it will help you, too.

Let's use the example above. Now imagine in your mind a piece of paper which has a vertical fold down the middle. The left hand side will be Spades and the right hand side of the paper will be Clubs. Now imagine there's a place for each card on the page: The JS at the left top, the QS at the left middle, the KS at the left bottom. Likewise, the JC is right top, QC is right middle, KC is right bottom.

Now as you go through the deck, and see a card, imagine seeing that card pasted onto your page in the proper spot. When you finish, one spot will be missing--that's your card! It's like the guys who have a tool shed and the picture of the tool is on the wall so they know where to put it back.

I know it sounds silly, but it's much easier than it sounds, and it really made a difference for me!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 4, 2020 04:10PM)
You are welcome!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 5, 2020 05:44AM)
I just updated the ebook. It is now version 1.01. Thank you very much to the contributors.

-------------
The mail system at host *****.pobox.com informed me that my message could not be delivered to the recipient.
Mr. 1**9, please submit a valid email address.

Best,
Hans-Christian
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Jul 6, 2020 02:33AM)
What's so great in this new approach is that - once you're accustomed to the principle - one round of clocking is so ultra fast that it doesn't resemble any clocking we used to know before.
So the effort of going thru the deck twice or thrice is compensated by the fact the it goes by so nonchalantly as one can imagine. Good job, hcs!
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 6, 2020 08:17AM)
As an alternate to the Mingau cull for putting the deck into alternating colors, here's something I came up with in 2004 that I posted on the Café. It's similar to the Mingau cull but I think the moves are better covered and more natural. I don't know that I explained it that well back then; the key thing to understand about it is that rather than spreading the cards left to right as in a cull, you are thumbing the cards one by one (as if counting the cards) into your right hand.

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=59558&forum=37

It's the post towards the end of the page.

If you'd like me to put up a video of it, let me know.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jul 6, 2020 08:26AM)
Remove s card from a shuffled deck and in one run-through of the deck I'll tell you that card. That's what I teach inl my books. Last time a friend checked me the run-through took 28 seconds. I'd do it faster if my arthritic fingers would let me spread faster. So, forgive the repetition:


"If you learned my missing card stunt in one of the few book in which I teach it - you can have someone remove any five cards, call off the other 47 cards RAPIDLY - and you'll know the five missing cards as you go through all in your mind. Start reading the good stuff, guys!!
"Oh, and I've seen NO improvements to my The Epitome Location."
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Jul 6, 2020 08:36AM)
Hcs,

I ordered this from the LIBRARY yesterday. Will they have the updates there also?

I just read the first chapter so far but wanted to say I love this. Just a few things getting used to, compared to my old way of counting but I love how you can narrow it down to just one value, no matter picture or court card. Best $5 I spent in a long time, worth much more and I have only read the Mingau Location.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Jul 6, 2020 09:04AM)
[quote]On Jul 6, 2020, Harry Lorayne wrote:
"Oh, and I've seen NO improvements to my The Epitome Location." [/quote]
Of course not. "We are only as blind as we want to be." (Maya Angelou)
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Jul 6, 2020 09:21AM)
My post should say spot or picture card
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jul 6, 2020 10:01AM)
Right. As blind as those who don't read the good stuff - or understand it when they do read it!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 7, 2020 03:31PM)
Revisited Version 1.02 is out.

BTW: Clocking a unknown deck with several missing cards (even five cards) is possible in less then one second. See my new chapter "clues for professionals"!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 8, 2020 01:24AM)
IMPORTENT NOTICE!

The price of the book has risen to 10 USD as the contents have increased.
You can buy the book at Lybrary.com and get all updates there.
https://www.lybrary.com/gaukelwerk-with-cards-p-923855.html

Early birds will further get their updates directly from me.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 8, 2020 01:30AM)
As a buyer at Lybrary.com, you can always renew your ebook-version on the digital shelf if there is an updated version available.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 8, 2020 11:18AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2020, hcs wrote:
Revisited Version 1.02 is out.

BTW: Clocking a unknown deck with several missing cards (even five cards) is possible in less then one second. See my new chapter "clues for professionals"! [/quote]
Martin Eisele, FISM World Close-up Champion 2006 from Germany, permitted me to include the guarded pro secret about the existence of his app.
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (Jul 8, 2020 01:55PM)
Just ordered from Lybrary.com. This is awesome! Makes it way faster for me and I've only been playing with it for about 20 minutes. I originally learned it from Loraynes write up which is great as well.
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Jul 8, 2020 03:37PM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2020, hcs wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2020, hcs wrote:
Revisited Version 1.02 is out.

BTW: Clocking a unknown deck with several missing cards (even five cards) is possible in less then one second. See my new chapter "clues for professionals"! [/quote]
Martin Eisele, FISM World Close-up Champion 2006 from Germany, permitted me to include the guarded pro secret about the existence of his app. [/quote]

I don't think Martin's making a secret of it as he's selling the app. Here's a [url=https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=649864&forum=218]multi-page thread[/url] about it.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jul 8, 2020 04:19PM)
Possible in less than one second?! No way, Ray - is that legit, obviously. I'm talking about running through a deck and RWALLY knowing which five cards are missing.
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Jul 8, 2020 04:33PM)
Yes, it's possible but it's not a human doing it, but an iPhone application as explained in the link I posted above.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 8, 2020 04:41PM)
Best secrets are kept in public. The app was intended for severe mem deck people. Not all features are public.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 10, 2020 07:13AM)
I noticed the small error in the Wasshuber method. Add 5 to the total. I will correct it in the next version.
Message: Posted by: Claudio (Jul 10, 2020 09:22AM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2020, hcs wrote:
Best secrets are kept in public. The app was intended for severe mem deck people. Not all features are public. [/quote]

Sorry for digressing, but ...

As Martin posted in Latest and Greatest in 2017 and is still selling his application, it's a fair bet that he's trying to make it as public as possible.

Anyway, I believe that the app is much more than that. It actually relieves the performer from knowing any stack or from doing any men work for that matter, as it does all by itself. For example here's Shuffle Bored from a spectator-shuffled deck. Amazing.

[youtube]AHZ39b3SYYc[/youtube]. .
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 10, 2020 03:23PM)
The "missing card" stunt by Martin Eisele.
Message: Posted by: Martin_Eisele (Jul 11, 2020 05:03AM)
Hello,

I have seen that there were some questions regarding Vision. It is right, I made that public to be used by other magicians.

Although it could be seen as a replacement to learning a stack it is way more than that. Finding the missing card(s) is just the simplest and most basic application. The real power of Vision becomes visible when some extra computational powers are added, as you have seen with the Shuffle-Bored Example from above.

Also dealing any poker hand called for is a perfect example (for Pit Hartling's 'The Pokerformulas'). You can deal any poker hand called for from a shuffled deck!
You can do way more than you could do with a memdeck! I have several applications and ideas for that.

The most concerns other magicians have, are about using the iPhone in the performance. And I can assure you, that this is no issue at all, since I have several ways how to integrate it with no suspicion at all! Also the 'capture' is done very quickly (in a fraction of a second) and you don't even have to press anything on the phone, since the iPhone is in video mode and the analysis is done from the video stream of the camera. Still for me it is amazing how quickly it captures. It has to be just held quickly above the spread and that's it.

Here you get a good impression about its power:

[youtube]cQicP-5QQOE[/youtube]

I have built in various ways, on how you can interact with the iPhone. By entering info, swiping them with a remote or even by voice recognition. The output can be peeked on the iPhone, spoken to your in-ear piece or can be peeked on an external device like the PeekSmith. As mentioned above, the capture itself is very cool, but it is the starting point for more complex things, which wouldn't be possible, with a memdeck or any other technique.

I also use this in a hidden context, so it is not visible to the spectators. They don't have the feeling, that I have a magic app which does the work. The iPhone is always used in a logical context (which makes sense and is not suspicious). By adding other layers on top, real miracles can be achieved ‐ even if spectators would assume computer vision (which nobody did so far).

If you have any questions, please le me know, I'm more than happy to answer!

All details about the app and its applications and my ideas can be found here:
[url]https://www.vision-tricks.com/secret[/url]

Best regards
Martin
Message: Posted by: ltrblst (Jul 13, 2020 06:52AM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2020, Martin_Eisele wrote:


If you have any questions, please le me know, I'm more than happy to answer!

All details about the app and its applications and my ideas can be found here:
[url]https://www.vision-tricks.com/secret[/url][/quote]

I'm a developer and I think that merging magic and technology in this way is super cool!

Do you plan an Android version?

Android is much more flexible and you can use the camera even when the screen is apparently turned off.
Message: Posted by: Martin_Eisele (Jul 13, 2020 07:52AM)
[quote]Do you plan an Android version?[/quote]

Not decided yet, iOS was/is so much work for me as a single developer...

But the main code is written in Cpp, so I think that it could be "easily" used in Android. But besides the main functionality there are so many other things (UI, Settings, ...). I don't know much about Android, so it would be a complete new field/start (with man pitfalls) for me. From what I heared it is not so "protected" as iOS, so software gets pirated easily and very often...
Message: Posted by: Martin_Eisele (Jul 13, 2020 07:54AM)
[quote]Android is much more flexible and you can use the camera even when the screen is apparently turned off.[/quote]

I have this feature already built into the iOS version:
A fake homescreen (or calculator) can be shown
a blank (dark) screen can be shown
or it can be used as a real camera (to take a picture of the spectator, his hand, ...)
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 31, 2020 02:15PM)
I just updated the ebook. It is now version 1.04.
Buyers can download the revisited book everytime on the digital shelf at Lybrary.com.
https://www.lybrary.com/gaukelwerk-with-cards-p-923855.html
Message: Posted by: ltrblst (Jul 31, 2020 07:47PM)
[quote]On Jul 31, 2020, hcs wrote:
I just updated the ebook. It is now version 1.04.
Buyers can download the revisited book everytime on the digital shelf at Lybrary.com.
https://www.lybrary.com/gaukelwerk-with-cards-p-923855.html [/quote]

Thank you, I really appreciate how you take care of updating your ebook.
Message: Posted by: Robert P. (Oct 4, 2020 08:34PM)
So I was introduced to clocking watching Sal Piacente's At The Table lecture where he deals four separate piles (4 cards, 7 cards, 11 cards, and the remaining deck) and does a memory routine where he memorizes each pile and after a card is removed from each packet he is able to call out the value of each card. It is a fantastic routine, and a very good introduction into clocking as he simplifies the process with the number of cards in each pile. One downside could be that all of the court cards are counted as being worth 10 (like in Blackjack), but the simplicity of it far outweighs this weakness and I give it my biggest recommendation to anyone who may be interested in learning how to clock because it lets you practice with small packets.

I've now started to do more research into the subject and I'm trying to further develop skills in this area and purchased [url=https://www.lybrary.com/gaukelwerk-with-cards-p-923855.html]Gaukelwerk with Cards[/url]. Trying to learn the Solka method, and Dr. Hans-Christian Solka mentions that he only counts one color. I am not sure the reason for this. I can understand the case if you are doing an effect and you are able to narrow down the selection by one of the two colors to help with the effect but I am not sure the reason for it being stated in the ebook. I'm assuming you are using a force with the spectator to help define the clocking process down to one color but if I am missing something please let me know.

I'm going to start practicing the Solka method, it will be a bit of a learning curve as the assigned values are so different to what I am used to but I think it will help streamline the process after I become more comfortable.

I've added some references below that I have used when researching the subject. This will help when I revisit in the future but also may help others with possible resources and effects.

Sal Piacente's At The Table lecture (1:44:51 time stamp)
Harry Lorayne's Epitome Location - The Classic Collection pg. 351
Roberto Giobbi - Ask Roberto #48
Patrick Redford's Card Counter - Applesause pg. 101
Paul Cummin's Tap a Lack - MAGIC Magazine - July 2005, pg. 96
Paul Vigil's Diplopia - MAGIC Magazine - November 2011, pg. 66
Message: Posted by: ltrblst (Oct 4, 2020 09:16PM)
[quote]On Oct 5, 2020, Robert P. wrote:
Sal Piacente's At The Table lecture (1:44:51 time stamp)
Harry Lorayne's Epitome Location - The Classic Collection pg. 351
Roberto Giobbi - Ask Roberto #48
Patrick Redford's Card Counter - Applesause pg. 101
Paul Cummin's Tap a Lack - MAGIC Magazine - July 2005, pg. 96
Paul Vigil's Diplopia - MAGIC Magazine - November 2011, pg. 66 [/quote]

Very useful, thank you for sharing your notes.
Message: Posted by: pulpscrypt (Oct 6, 2020 07:13AM)
Might be interested in an Android version.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Oct 6, 2020 07:51AM)
[quote]Dr. Hans-Christian Solka mentions that he only counts one color. I am not sure the reason for this. [/quote]

This is an approach taken by quite a few clockers, notably Harry Lorayne in the Epitome Location. It allows for *much* quicker clocking. Typically the color of the card is obtained beforehand, either covertly or quite openly, through a number of strategies.
Message: Posted by: Robert P. (Oct 6, 2020 05:34PM)
[quote]On Oct 6, 2020, landmark wrote:
[quote]Dr. Hans-Christian Solka mentions that he only counts one color. I am not sure the reason for this. [/quote]

This is an approach taken by quite a few clockers, notably Harry Lorayne in the Epitome Location. It allows for *much* quicker clocking. Typically the color of the card is obtained beforehand, either covertly or quite openly, through a number of strategies. [/quote]

Thanks, I figured that was the case but just wanted to make sure. Also wanted to say thanks for the contribution to the Landmark Cull!
Message: Posted by: JonHackl (Feb 24, 2021 10:47AM)
I just got Gaukelwerk and read through it a couple times. Very cool book!

I suspect the reason the Solka Location focuses on one colour is due to the potential number of ambiguities. Your second pass could be very cumbersome if you didn't know the colour.

Because it's more readily useful for a both-colour clocking as well as a single-colour, I think I'm going to focus on the Mingau Location. When the colour is known I may apply to Mingau the "Wasshuber's Addendum" to Solka. Wasshuber+Mingau seems like a powerful combination when the colour is known.

I'm still toying with the culls. Initially the Hans False Shuffle didn't appeal to me, but playing with it further I think I really like the Barry Ray variation. I guess I've turned this into a mini-review when my intention was to comment on the colour restriction in Solka. For what it's worth, I very much recommend this ebook!
Message: Posted by: hcs (Mar 5, 2021 05:54AM)
[quote]On Feb 24, 2021, JonHackl wrote:
I just got Gaukelwerk and read through it a couple times. Very cool book!

I suspect the reason the Solka Location focuses on one colour is due to the potential number of ambiguities. Your second pass could be very cumbersome if you didn't know the colour.

Because it's more readily useful for a both-colour clocking as well as a single-colour, I think I'm going to focus on the Mingau Location. When the colour is known I may apply to Mingau the "Wasshuber's Addendum" to Solka. Wasshuber+Mingau seems like a powerful combination when the colour is known.

I'm still toying with the culls. Initially the Hans False Shuffle didn't appeal to me, but playing with it further I think I really like the Barry Ray variation. I guess I've turned this into a mini-review when my intention was to comment on the colour restriction in Solka. For what it's worth, I very much recommend this ebook! [/quote]Thank you very much for the kind words regarding Gaukelwerk.

Found out more here.
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=727250&forum=159&2&start=0#1
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Apr 29, 2021 09:25AM)
Doug Canning came up with a nice way to clock a deck much faster by asking two questions. It's in the latest Steve Beam book. I did a video on my you tube channel if you want to check it out.


https://youtu.be/zlRgMYo_i-w
Message: Posted by: pnerd (Apr 29, 2021 10:26AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2021, magicthree wrote:
It's in the latest Steve Beam book.[/quote]
Which book is it?
.
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Apr 29, 2021 11:06AM)
It's in his latest SACT book series.
Message: Posted by: Nikodemus (Jun 23, 2021 03:54PM)
[quote]On Oct 6, 2020, landmark wrote:
[quote]Dr. Hans-Christian Solka mentions that he only counts one color. I am not sure the reason for this. [/quote]

This is an approach taken by quite a few clockers, notably Harry Lorayne in the Epitome Location. It allows for *much* quicker clocking. Typically the color of the card is obtained beforehand, either covertly or quite openly, through a number of strategies. [/quote]


Even if you don't know the colour of the selection, it could still be a useful strategy to clock the colours separately.
Let's say you always count the reds first, then spread through a second time to count the blacks. It will presumably take the same time roughly to count the reds-then-blacks vs counting the whole deck in one pass. But if the selection happens to be red (which should be 50% of the time) then you can halve the counting time. The price you pay is that if the card is black you need to go through the cards another time. So it depends whether your priority is to have the fewest passes through the deck, or to (sometimes) speed up the search.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jul 4, 2021 10:28AM)
[quote]On Jun 23, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
Even if you don't know the colour of the selection, it could still be a useful strategy to clock the colours separately.
Let's say you always count the reds first, then spread through a second time to count the blacks. It will presumably take the same time roughly to count the reds-then-blacks vs counting the whole deck in one pass. But if the selection happens to be red (which should be 50% of the time) then you can halve the counting time. The price you pay is that if the card is black you need to go through the cards another time. So it depends whether your priority is to have the fewest passes through the deck, or to (sometimes) speed up the search. [/quote]In my book Gaukelwerk with playing cards, I describe that strategy (Wasshuber’s Suit Addendum).

I also describe a similar but more innovative strategy (Refurbished Method). After the first run, I know whether the missing card is a spot card of a specific suit or a court card of unknown value and suit. Anyway, I have nar¬rowed for the second run the lost card down to a group of 10 or 12 possible cards.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Jul 5, 2021 08:00AM)
Oh please!!! I state the removed card after running through the shuffled deck in 23/24 seconds Start reading the good stuff - like The Epitome Location.
Message: Posted by: Pyppo100 (Jul 5, 2021 09:30AM)
[quote]On Jul 5, 2021, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Oh please!!! I state the removed card after running through the shuffled deck in 23/24 seconds Start reading the good stuff - like The Epitome Location. [/quote]

In 23/24 seconds are you able to do the clocking by counting only the red (or black) cards of a deck of 52 cards?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: JonHackl (Jul 5, 2021 10:45AM)
Speed is only so important. It's best to use clocking, no matter how fast, when the spectator thinks you're doing something else anyway.

But to compare the speed of different methods, you'd have to factor in the skill of the performer. With his agile mind, Mr. Lorayne could no doubt clock faster than most of us with just about any clocking method! He can probably do the whole deck, not limiting the colours, in 23 seconds with his Epitome Location, but that says at least as much about his giftedness as a performer as it does about the effectiveness of the method.

The question for me is not whether another performer is faster with another method than I am with the method I use. The question for me is whether switching methods will make a difference for me when I use it. Same performer, different method is the relevant test; not different performer, different method.