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Topic: A Presentation Phenomenon
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Aug 9, 2007 10:49AM)
Effective presentation is like a combination lock. If each tumbler falls into place, the lock will open.

Seldom are any two locks the same.

Their physical appearance might be identical, but the combination of numbers necessary to open each is different.

No one can teach another a combination that is his own, for it would not work. Each person possesses his own inclinations.

How does one go about discovering these combinations?

One doesn't.

They discover him if he is responsive to their appearance.

Sensitivity is essential.

Recognition is key.

The harder one looks, the less one will find.

"Seek and ye shall find" is a platitude as half-truthful as "the truth will make you free".

One can seek until one drops and pass up the answers many times if he hasn't the sensitivity to recognize them when confronted by them.

The "truth" can be screamed from a thousand rooftops, and unless it is convenient to hear, it will fall on deaf ears.

Spatial concepts contribute three dimensions to the combination.

The fourth dimension exists in time.




(a public response to a private question)
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 9, 2007 11:43AM)
Another way to look at it:

The real lock isn't in the presentation. Its in the minds of the audience. The presentation is the key to those locks.

Every audience the same combination, the same number of twists and in the same sequential order. It can be easily taught.

When you know that combination and sequence you can apply it to any presentation.
Not only will you now what effects to use but also how to "frame" them for maximum impact.

You will also have a clearer insight into what will and what won't work...
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 9, 2007 12:29PM)
Every audience the same???????
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 9, 2007 01:56PM)
No but every mind needs the same doors opened before they will be receptive to your performance..

Its when we fail to open them that the problems start. The presentations is the key to those doors. Leave something out in the structure and sequence and you don'thave as receptive an audience as you could've had..

Because you haven't got them into a receptive state.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 9, 2007 02:35PM)
I would disagree on this point you are trying to make... and I can mold it one of two ways. Either different people will have different doors, OR different people have different keys to open the door we wish to open. Your post seems to over simplify the process.

Every person is not the same, nor do they respond and react to things in the same way. Ask any well trained sales person and they will likely tell you they have been trained to pick up on the tell tale differences which tell you how to tailor your (sales) presentation to open the door that leads to "yes" as the response to your sales pitch.

It is little different in what we do. IF you believe everyone is the same I guarantee you are missing the best possible reactions to portions of your audience.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 03:53AM)
I work with sales people and business people. I train them to create presentations that by pass resistance. They get huge returs out of it. Yet I am not a "sales" trainer. In fact traditional sales training is weak.

You are not making the distinction between content and process.

On the process level everyone is the same and sequence and structure are the keys with which to hang your content.

Its only the content that varies from audience to audience, Once you understand the most effective process then you can create the most effective presentations..

And that process and structure remain the same..

This is where most mentalist are weak they put too much emphasis on effect (content) rather than the process or structure they are taking their audience through.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 11:20AM)
Can you more clearly define what you mean by process?

I'm not sure I agree that everyone is the same on teh process level, but that depepnds on your definition of process.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 11:49AM)
Ok the most simplest process or structure would be

begining middle and end...

That is universal in all presentations of any kind....
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 11:58AM)
How does that pertain to what we are talking about? When you say "On the process level everyone is the same..." what specifically do you mean?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 12:11PM)
Ok here is a simple but effective process for the first half of "presentation" could be a show.

You start by "de-railing" the audience by doing some completely unexpected. Something that no one was anticipating. With no preconcieved ideas of whats next the minds of the audience having nothing to hang on to. I would also think of the effects as complete stories rather than effects. You then move on to start next effect but don't complete the story before going on to the next one. This again keeps the audience hanging for the conclusion another door open.

The effects themselves can be structured as "stories" in a way that appeals to the different way people assimulate information and sequenced for maximum assimulation of those different styles.

that's just some examples.

I have seen these techniques in all kinds of presentations from sales to seminars to comedians even Derren Brown's first live show.

They are mechanisms to open the minds of the audience and keep them with you right up until the end.

They will work for any audience so long as you pick and structure the right content.

I teach business people to this in business presentations pitches etc..
Message: Posted by: John C (Aug 10, 2007 12:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-10 13:11, mindpunisher wrote:
Ok here is a simple but effective process for the first half of "presentation" could be a show.

You start by "de-railing" the audience by doing some completely unexpected. Something that no one was anticipating. With no preconcieved ideas of whats next the minds of the audience having nothing to hang on to. I would also think of the effects as complete stories rather than effects. You then move on to start next effect but don't complete the story before going on to the next one. This again keeps the audience hanging for the conclusion another door open.

The effects themselves can be structured as "stories" in a way that appeals to the different way people assimulate information and sequenced for maximum assimulation of those different styles.

that's just some examples.

I have seen these techniques in all kinds of presentations from sales to seminars to comedians even Derren Brown's first live show.

They are mechanisms to open the minds of the audience and keep them with you right up until the end.

They will work for any audience so long as you pick and structure the right content.

I teach business people to this in business presentations pitches etc..
[/quote]

This is exactly how my elementary school programs are designed. This also carries over into my corporate program.

John
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 01:10PM)
OK, there we go.

"appeals to the different way people assimulate information" and "On the process level everyone is the same" could be seen to be in conflict, but if I understand you... I was thinking of the first (people are different) while you were talking about the latter (Everyone the same) and we were on two different frames or levels of a performance. I still don't buy the "everyone the same" thinking though I believe audiences have a higher tendency to react in common on the level you used that phrase.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 01:38PM)
On a process level every audience is the same providing you have all the elements in place. Ie your structure caters for the differnt ways audience members assimulate information.

In other words you can see the same structures with different types of audiences and different presentations have a powerful impact. In general people are the same. In specifics we differ.

Now whether you have the right content is another matter.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 01:48PM)
It is the word "process" and your claims being so absolute which I can't grab hold of. What do you mean specifically by "process level"?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Aug 10, 2007 03:45PM)
Everyone is the same if you are hitting biologically hard wired directives.

I have several tools I use (not offered on my DVD's but having to do with Group Organism Dynamics) that strip an entire audience/group down to primate/primitive level for an instant and in that instant you become the Alpha human in that environment.

In the Thought Broadcast clip on my site I used it on the high school kids to create the proper respect and interactive dynamic . http://www.JimClass.Com

It works if you are doing balloons, card tricks, or reading thoughts live or on TV or film.
(It is not for sale. I only mention this to avoid the PM's asking about it)

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 04:04PM)
You watch movies for example they all follow about a dozen or less processes.

They are basically the same but use different characters and locations.

However they take the audience through the same sequence of emotions.

Watching a movie is being taken through a psychological and emotional process.

So is reading a novel

Or being pitched to by a sales person.
Message: Posted by: Dr Desmond Jones (Aug 10, 2007 04:06PM)
I suspect there will be a "Dinner with the JabberWocky" that will sell it soon enough. ;0)

But in the end I have to ask how trivial do you find your audience when you are performing at them and not with them. Each performance is about entertaining them not about ego.

Allowing an audience to become a part of a show is a wonderful thing.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 04:16PM)
Allowing an adudience to "become part of a show" is a process. And the more you understand that process the more effective you can do it.

Where does ego come into it? Getting into the minds and hearts of your audience is what we are talking about.

Ego comes into it when we just want to show effects..actually anyone who says they perform and have no ego is lying,
Message: Posted by: Dr Desmond Jones (Aug 10, 2007 04:21PM)
"I Perform and Have NO Ego!"

What I was referring to is J acks assumption of being able to break down an audience to a level of numbers and stats. Seems so mundane. Some of the best moments and scripts I have gotten are from the audience.

Their resourcefulness and originality in performance is GOLDEN! Breaking them down and being an alpha male makes the performance less about them and more about you. Look at why hypnosis is such a success! Its about the audience. Why is Q & A a sucess its about the audience. Anytime you involve the audiences originality, you make the show 10 X better.

Alpha Males are for a pack of dogs (female?) not for an audience.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 04:48PM)
I see thought you were referring to my post..

Tom:

There are no absolutes in anything.

No sales pitch will sell everyone
No piece of litrature will capture everyone
And no performance will please everyone in the audience.

However it is possible to win an audience most of the time. And even then its unlikely you will win everyone in the audience.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 05:14PM)
Yes, that was my point in pointing out the absolutes I felt you posted.

"You watch movies for example they all follow about a dozen or less processes." Some movie processes simply don't work for some people but do work for others, which is where the line "On the process level everyone is the same..." crosses me up on the way to what we agree on...

That being people assimilate information (process it) in different ways. In my framework if we want to open a certain door, we need to know which key will open that door for which people. Then I work all the different keys possible to open as many versions of that door as possible.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 05:17PM)
Yes but in any audience you won't do it for everybody. But you might be able to do it for the audience (most people attending).

having an understanding of the doors and sequence etc: will enable you to open as many as possible. Hopefully most (which is more than half).

that's where an understanding of process comes in.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 05:42PM)
I now have a better understanding of your use of the word process to describe your structure.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 10, 2007 05:48PM)
I think most if not all people respond to the same process. Its the content that causes the biggest differences.

getting everyone happy with the content is another thing. But change the content stick to a structure and you get other types of people.

But again there are no absolutes these are just tools to do the best job.

Even then occasionally it can fall completely flat..
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Aug 10, 2007 05:53PM)
There are absolutes and to ignore that fact is folly for those in engaged in this art.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Aug 10, 2007 05:53PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-10 16:45, Jim-Callahan wrote:

I have several tools I use (not offered on my DVD's but having to do with Group Organism Dynamics) that strip an entire audience/group down to primate/primitive level for an instant and in that instant you become the Alpha human in that environment.

It works if you are doing balloons, card tricks, or reading thoughts live or on TV or film.
(It is not for sale. I only mention this to avoid the PM's asking about it)

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

It's funny you should write this J ack, because I'm just about to put an eBook up with this description:

Strip an entire audience/group down to primate/primitive level for an instant and in that instant become the Alpha human in that environment!

Perform like J ack in the Thought Broadcast clip on his site used on high school kids to create the proper respect and interactive dynamic! http://www.JimClass.Com

It works if you are doing balloons, card tricks, or reading thoughts live or on TV or film!

Don't be fooled anymore, everyone is the same if you are hitting biologically hard wired directives!

For sale! (not cheap)

Coming Soon! http://www.eyesandminds.com/store2.htm



Is it some kind of telepathy???
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 10, 2007 06:02PM)
Mindpunisher,

What you call structure I believe I call content. There in lies the difficulty. My content is what some would call delivery, and I think of that as the content beause it is what gives the performance meaning and emotional engagement.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Aug 11, 2007 07:02PM)
Genteleman.....this is a very good post indeed!
keep them coming.....
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 12, 2007 04:27PM)
Tom content is the material effects jokes stories etc

Structure is how they are put together to create a certain effect in the minds of the audience.

You can change the content but keep the structure to have a similar effect on different audiences...

They are two completely different things. structure and process are higer level thinking. Content is the details..
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 12, 2007 06:27PM)
Yeah, I know that is your language. It's not mine. For me the content of a show is that which gives it meaning and emotional engagement. In my performance what gives it meaning is the delivery. The rest is the structure or framework on which the content is built.

Two people can perform the same "trick" and get entirely different reactions. In my language the content is what affects that reaction. Ergo the the thing which remains constant (the trick) becomes the rigid element (structure) on which different presentations (content) can be hung. One of the elements which is malleable is the process or steps which are adapted to include as many different methods of audiences' assimilations of the experience as possible. This is particularily adaptable specifically because people assimilate the experience in different ways in my experience.

Just different ways of looking at the same thing. If we toss out the nomenclature we have adopted, you and I agree on many levels.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 13, 2007 05:44AM)
Yes we do agree. For me the presentation is the whole completed thing. The structure is how its put togeher the content is the effects. Delivery would also be content Ie humouress serious etc.

You can have the same structure but use it many presentations. Not just mentalism. The only thing that changes is the content. Instead of effects you have information intended for your target audience.
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 13, 2007 11:43AM)
Some people believe there is a template and they construct their performances around that template. I disagree with that philosophy. I believe the material and the audience will tell you the structure if you listen and are knowledgeable on the subject. As content (your definition) changes, so may the structure (your definition), in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: CAROLINI (Aug 13, 2007 11:57AM)
Before presenting an effect I try to HONESTLY put myself in the place of the audience and try to determine how I would react to the effect. We cannot but be impressed with the mentality of the creators of many effects. This can deceive us into believing that the audience must likewise be impressed. Not so! I have seen magicians do things with cards and coins that I can't help but admire their skills. But I also admire jugglers and acrobats just as much. But admiration is not necessarily entertainment. We should always try to consider the entertainment value of our effects. And, we should only try to do effects that will entertain everyone in the audience. That is a challenge to make us worthy of the title ENTERTAINER.
Message: Posted by: chris_johnson_au (Aug 13, 2007 02:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-10 17:04, mindpunisher wrote:
You watch movies for example they all follow about a dozen or less processes.

They are basically the same but use different characters and locations.

However they take the audience through the same sequence of emotions.

Watching a movie is being taken through a psychological and emotional process.

So is reading a novel

Or being pitched to by a sales person.
[/quote]

I'm still trying to understand what you're trying to say in terms of sales here (since I used to be in sales and a sales trainer).

If what you said were true, that means some people will end up with some products they don't need because they already have them at home. What about qualifying? What about the different buying personalities?

In a one-on-one situation, you probably would be able to have greater success by finding those buttons and moving accordingly through the presentation.

In a situation where you are performing for more than one person at a time, you will have a problem where you are going to have some personalities not receptive.

People aren't all made through the same mould.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Aug 13, 2007 02:58PM)
Of course people are not made of the same mold that's why you need a process....

Process instructions allow all types of people to put their intepretation into things.

sales presentations are beyond this thread

Seriously its far to big a subject.