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Topic: Ultimately Under Book by Kenton Knepper
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Aug 24, 2007 06:08PM)
Hmmmmm....

Read this today, put people into trances in your performances tomorrow. Kenton's new "Ultimately Under" does for hypnosis what Completely Cold has done for telephone psychics.

Literally overnight you will get spectators to close their eyes, levitate their arm, see imaginary balloons and all manner of things - without stooges, hypnosis, or tons of practice.

Spectator's hands get stuck to a table, they cannot move from a spot on the floor, their fingers seem glued together and more.

No memorizing special hypnotic scripts or fancy words.

No funny props required, though you may want to use your cell phone or make up a thing or two.

Most of the effects can be performed up close, in a living room or on stage.

Unlike what all the others teach you, Kenton tips how mentalists and magicians can use trance work TODAY without worry or failure.

Forget being taught how to be a clinical therapist or stage hypnotist when all you really want to do is apparently put people under INSTANTLY while doing your usual effects.

You learn how to do all of this and more right away. This work is for MAGICIANS AND MENTALISTS BY a renown MAGICIAN and MENTALIST. You don't need to be an expert in hypnosis when all you really want to do is show how you put people into a trance instantly.

No dangerous methods, no difficult work.

Read it today, perform trance effects with ease and complete confidence tomorrow!

No worries, and no fear required.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Aug 24, 2007 06:08PM)
http://hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?hn=1
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Aug 24, 2007 06:40PM)
The claims seem to good to be true, and you know what they say!
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Aug 24, 2007 06:44PM)
I have a feeling it is going to be somewhat like the locked eyes test (which I love) and things of that nature.

And no when things seem to good to be true...that rule doesn't apply anywhere. I got into cloudbusting and it wasn't too good to be true. Everything was true, I can change the weather and swirl clouds.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Aug 24, 2007 06:52PM)
That's very good blindside 785, then you better get it and review it for us, it's cheap. And by the way I got cloudbusting too. I look forward to your review.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Aug 24, 2007 09:27PM)
I can't change the weather, but I can put on a jacket.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Aug 24, 2007 11:11PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-24 19:52, takeachance wrote:
That's very good blindside 785, then you better get it and review it for us, it's cheap. And by the way I got cloudbusting too. I look forward to your review.
[/quote]Hehe if you can wait a full 4 months for that to happen that will be superb. It's on me christmas list.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Aug 25, 2007 12:36AM)
No problem!
Message: Posted by: Waters (Aug 25, 2007 07:00AM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-24 22:27, gabelson wrote:
I can't change the weather, but I can put on a jacket.


[/quote]
Nice!
Message: Posted by: mota (Aug 25, 2007 07:41AM)
I remember another pseudo-hyp book by Knepper (which I no longer have). In this book he suggests using itching powder to get the hypnotic effect of itching.

So, think about your body now...notice if you have any sensations...any itches. Notice also that when you pay attention to them they start to spread to other parts of your body.

Like I've said before if you have to fake the itching suggestion you suk as a hypnotist.

This isn't to say this book might not be good but based on my past experience with Knepper's pseudo-hyp there is no way I'll spend fifty bucks to find out.

Again, he seems to be selling the dream of fake hypnotism to magicians...if someone actually gets this who really does hypnotism I would be very interested in a review.
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Aug 25, 2007 09:39AM)
I love doing this stuff with waking hypnosis, but I can't do it to everyone....Maybe this book will help out with that. I never was really into much of Kentons other things but I might look into getting this sometime.
Message: Posted by: E.C. Valdemar (Aug 31, 2007 07:00AM)
I'm very interested in this book as well. Hopefully there'll be a review soon and hopefully this won't just be another book of recycled pseudo-hypnosis effects.

Robert EC
Message: Posted by: mark townsend (Sep 1, 2007 02:39AM)
Hi all,
Here's what I'll say as a contributer (which I consider to be the greatest honour): The book clearly will not suit everyone, but then nor will ANY book or effect. For some Mind Readers the whole hypno-premis would cut across their general performing persona and rob them of credibilty... A magic analogy of this would be if 'Mr. Super Elegant Card Sharp' miraculously turned his Ace of Spades into a sponge banana! Just wouldn't work hey.

HOWEVER for Mentalistic performers whose persona can carry it off this book will contain some PURE GOLD as far as pseudo-hypnotic techniques go [trust me , I'm a Priest!] . NEW ideas, tried and tested, worked on by many minds and put together as a delightful Menu of Mentalism from which to select choose some potentially astonishing starters, powerful main courses and satisfying deserts.

I myself just have one (and 1/2) effects in the book. It began as an idea... was tested out in the real world, worked on by Kenton's incredibly creative mind, and POW a cool sure fire effect that will blow away both audience and volunteer!

However I simply cannot wait until I receive my copy own of the WHOLE book because the material that Kenton and the School produces is truly incredible... and I KNOW I'll be using it in my shows, but then (going back to what I said above) it suits my persona!

Cheers my friends,
Mark
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 1, 2007 08:15AM)
Sounds great, I'll most likely get it then....I love pseudo hypnotic effects just as much as using waking hypnosis and suggestion.

Mike
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Sep 1, 2007 10:42AM)
Sounds a bit like "Act of Imagination".
Message: Posted by: Kurundur (Sep 3, 2007 05:05AM)
Just a quick note: Jheff has just put out his review of UU.
[url=http://www.marketplaceofthemind.com/Ultimately_Under.html]Jheff's Review[/url]
Message: Posted by: rinpoche (Sep 3, 2007 08:43PM)
I don't believe in fake hypnosis - we're all already in trance.

BTW - as a trained hypnotist, I'd caution untrained people from screwing around with stage hypnosis just believing it is suggestion and people aren't "under". I come from the school that says that people go into and out of altered states all day, and mostly don't realize it.

That being said, I have seen very real hypnotic abreaction during a stage show. The hypnotist, who was trained handled it well. Even if the subject isn't in trance, the belief that he or she is can open them to revivify very traumatic memories. Imagine unknowing;y doing that to someone with PTSD.

I should also say that if you don't know how to recognize someone exhibiting psychosis, best to stay clear of any kind of induction - false or not.

It doesn't matter if you don't even believe in hypnosis. You can cause psychological trauma to someone who does believe.

My $0.02
Message: Posted by: E.C. Valdemar (Sep 4, 2007 12:57AM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-03 06:05, Kurundur wrote:
Just a quick note: Jheff has just put out his review of UU.
[url=http://www.marketplaceofthemind.com/Ultimately_Under.html]Jheff's Review[/url]
[/quote]

Well, it's nice reading a positive review about this new Kenton book. But the review really don't say much, did it?

~Robert EC Valdemar
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 4, 2007 11:22AM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-03 21:43, rinpoche wrote:
I don't believe in fake hypnosis - we're all already in trance.

BTW - as a trained hypnotist, I'd caution untrained people from screwing around with stage hypnosis just believing it is suggestion and people aren't "under". I come from the school that says that people go into and out of altered states all day, and mostly don't realize it.

That being said, I have seen very real hypnotic abreaction during a stage show. The hypnotist, who was trained handled it well. Even if the subject isn't in trance, the belief that he or she is can open them to revivify very traumatic memories. Imagine unknowing;y doing that to someone with PTSD.

I should also say that if you don't know how to recognize someone exhibiting psychosis, best to stay clear of any kind of induction - false or not.

It doesn't matter if you don't even believe in hypnosis. You can cause psychological trauma to someone who does believe.

My $0.02
[/quote]

Agree 100% with Rinpoche.....hope Lee Darow also chime on this, as he is also one of the Board member from NGH (National Guild Of Hypnosis)...and he talks about the safety when doing Hypnosis...not many people think abaout this nowdays

about this Book...I just order it from Hocus-Pocus few min ago...I'll be givng you guys a review when its arrive
as I am familiar with Kenton Style & Approach...I Know this kind of work is my cup of tea....after major modification to suit my style....most of what Kenton Publish goes staright in to my Working Repertoire...
Message: Posted by: mentalv (Sep 4, 2007 01:45PM)
I think it is a rework of Kenton Knepper's -"trance this" book
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Sep 4, 2007 01:54PM)
I hope not! I ordered it this morning.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 4, 2007 05:16PM)
YES...I hope NOT!.....
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 5, 2007 02:59PM)
Anyone have anything to say about how practical this stuff is??
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 5, 2007 04:56PM)
By cracker, do you mean that it's good??? lol

Mike
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 6, 2007 02:45AM)
Abraxus, could you please give us a review of this Book
Thank You
Message: Posted by: rohff (Sep 6, 2007 06:19AM)
Yes a review please, it seems to be amazing!

Ty
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 6, 2007 07:08AM)
Probably the best way to describe it as is a hypnosis magic book.
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 6, 2007 02:32PM)
I got a bit of money so I just ordered this and Rick Maues Imagine! Couldn't wait for a review so hopefully it's not a let down!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Sep 6, 2007 02:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-06 08:08, Dynamike wrote:
Probably the best way to describe it as is a hypnosis magic book.
[/quote]

Mike

Have you read it? (Mine is still in the post)

Tony
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Sep 6, 2007 02:41PM)
As I said, I've not really had enough time to relax and read it thoroughly, the weekend maybe...

I read the first 20 or so pages last night, then woke up naked in the street handing out money to strangers...

The way its laid out though seems clearly done. You get a deep explanation of a "how-to", then an effect using those principles. I reckon if you like Kentonism and Trance This! by Kenton, then you'll love this...

Reading between the lines (not the effect) it seems as if he's put this out with his students, cos they're all sick of the bad advice given by certain shonky stage hypnotists..my opinion only....
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 6, 2007 02:42PM)
Tony,

You should have your copy before I get mine, If you don't mind would you share your thoughts on it after reading it?? Thanks!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 6, 2007 02:44PM)
Abraxus,

Is this all Psuedo Hypnosis???
Thanks!

Mike
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Sep 6, 2007 02:57PM)
Well, it depends on how you define hypnosis in the first place, I'd place it under the term "suggestion"...its kinda like the Completely Cold of suggestion if that makes it any less mud like...

And as we know, even faking hypnosis can infact cause people to really experience a trance-like state...

I'm surprised you american fellas havent got it before me, its been out in America a lot longer than over here, across the pond...
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 6, 2007 03:00PM)
Will it work on everyone or do you have to find the most suggestible people (Will these work everytime?) Thanks alot!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Sep 6, 2007 03:29PM)
I do hope it isn't like Completely Cold (I found that a Steaming Piece of Poo).

Mental Mike, will do. I was actually thinking DynaMike had read it because of his comment. I should have been more specific.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 6, 2007 03:56PM)
Tony, I knew you were talkin to Dynamike. Just very interested...Thanks!

Mike
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Sep 8, 2007 01:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-06 15:34, Tony Iacoviello wrote:

Mike

Have you read it? (Mine is still in the post)

Tony
[/quote]
Nope. Let me know how you like it.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Sep 8, 2007 01:33PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-08 14:18, Dynamike wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-09-06 15:34, Tony Iacoviello wrote:

Mike

Have you read it? (Mine is still in the post)

Tony
[/quote]
Nope. Let me know how you like it.
[/quote]


So you comment on a book you havent read just to post another string of nonsense:Mike let me tellyou ive read your posts since you came back and most of them if not all are just silly comments;empty nonsense and provocative posts trying to insult other members.I just wonder when moderators will be bored soon and will BAN you again forever !!
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Sep 8, 2007 01:57PM)
His just annoying really...maybe once upon a time Mike was slightly amusing but dear god these days I'd rather read a phone book begining to end than any of his posts.

Pete
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Sep 8, 2007 02:20PM)
God that was totally pointless. Testosterone must be high over there.
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 11, 2007 11:30AM)
I should have my copy friday...Anyone recieve theirs yet??

Mike
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Sep 11, 2007 01:33PM)
Yes, I've only had the chance to look over the first section, so no opinions yet.
Message: Posted by: cougar261084 (Sep 14, 2007 05:16AM)
So any reviews yet
Message: Posted by: Sensio (Sep 14, 2007 05:52AM)
I am a piece of nothing compared to Kenton but I never appreciated any of his stuff except Wonder Words...

So let's see how this one rates...
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Sep 14, 2007 07:56AM)
Thumbs down.this is all I will say on this book.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 14, 2007 08:04AM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-14 08:56, Mariagi wrote:
Thumbs down.this is all I will say on this book.
[/quote]

Do explain .......

for me Thumbs Down for Kenton "Miracles By Association"
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 15, 2007 09:59PM)
I've got the book in my possesion now...let me digest this few times before I can put an Honest review
Message: Posted by: cougar261084 (Sep 16, 2007 05:31AM)
Read man read like you've never read before,

it's about time someone gave a review instead of: Thumbs down.this is all I will say on this book. without saying why
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Sep 16, 2007 07:26AM)
I'll be mean and review this, cos I can just see how it'll just descend into the old arguments of what seperates real and fake hypnosis, when suggestion crosses over to hypnosis and so on...a pointless circular argument that'll get the review locked...

I think I can sum it up as this "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then it is..."

I really liked it though, that's all I can say, and a few things in it that I'll definately incorporate into my work. For any newbie looking to be yet another derren clone, stay well clear, cos you'll end up crying and saying it's not fair...

for those that do bother to think through an effect and presentation angle, there's some great things you can apply and some strong routines to mess around with..

I enjoyed it, I learnt something from it, 8/10...
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 16, 2007 09:07AM)
I only liked one thing from it.... I skimmed through it and will read through it again, But from what I read, only one thing stood out to me.
Message: Posted by: mota (Sep 16, 2007 10:09AM)
Is it basically magic tricks dressed up to supposedly look like hypnotism?

Is it a basic suggestion course?

Or...?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Sep 16, 2007 10:18AM)
Or!
Message: Posted by: cougar261084 (Sep 16, 2007 12:59PM)
Still not really a review that really tells us what's in the book
Message: Posted by: Mental_Mike (Sep 16, 2007 02:14PM)
It has a couple magic tricks to use "suggetion" in. There is no actual hypnosis. I don't think a lot of this will make people believe someone is in a trance but I never tried anything yet to see. The only idea I'm going to use is the one where someone gets stuck to the floor and can't move, It the best effect in there to me. There's other ideas in there that could easily be blown if someones says something, but there's an out and I really didn't like it. There's probably people out there who will like this book. I still need to read a bit more before I can say too much.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 23, 2007 02:17AM)
Like I said before, here is a brief review....if you want to call this a review

in essence this book will help you to create the illusion of the ability to make your Spectator go into Trance...and the Abbility to do Trance Effects
(Read this again please)

rather than using Real Instant Induction wich can fail, this book is NOT, because even if you fail there is an out that make it seems that that is the desire results that you want to happen

this book is not intended to be Speed Read/Skim trough, it is suppose to be read Slowly and carefully with a Marker in hand, sometimes I have to repeat certain sentences that Kenton Says to get the idea of what he actualy meant...to get the Gist of the Book, I need to read this more than two times...and again Re-Reading it create ANOTHER new Ideas

if you are a Hypnotist or Suggestionist, then this book is a MUST...I underline many important wording and theory from ALMOST every pages of this book...not to mention lots of Footnote of Fresh idea that I add in almost every pages...

if you are a Mentalist and want to make the Impressions of genuine TRANCE, then the material in this book will certainly help you

I study ALL Kenton Publish Work, and I've been a Stage Hypnotist & Suggestionist & Certified Hypnotherapist for more than 10 Years, I use "Language Pattern" in every Work that I do,.... and even now I still learn a lot and find pages of Pages of New & Fresh Material from ULTIMATELY UNDER

Combine the material from this Book with others Kenton Works & Publish Material, than you have a killer Principle to help you elevate your work into another level of Realism & Believability

if you want to make your perfomance the FEEL of TRANCE or HYPNOSIS, or the LOOKS of TRANCE.....rather than spending your money on Jermay Instant Industion, spend it on this book

this book is NOT for begginer in Suggestion, Hypnosis or Mentalism, as the perfromer doing this type of work need to have an undertsanding of other Trance/Hypnotism Principle,....not to mention Certain Maturity in his Character Development, along with the performer ability to understand his/her Performing Character......this book intended to be a suplemental of others Kenton material

10 out of 10, I give this book 10, only if you already studied others Kenton Works
I give this book 5 if I am a begginer and this Type of Work is NEW to me...
Message: Posted by: v_alfano (Sep 23, 2007 04:06AM)
Thank you for the honest rewiew.
Message: Posted by: psychicturtle (Sep 23, 2007 04:49AM)
Yes, thank you Mesmer. This has persuaded me to get it.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Sep 23, 2007 05:09AM)
Again....beware that this Book is NOT for Begginer.......the least is that you Master Kenton WONDER WORDS and Studied Enrique ART OF IMAGINATION.....otherwise you wont be able to reap the Maximum Results from it
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Oct 1, 2007 03:27PM)
I'll be posting my review in the....review section. If you are a big fan of Kenton I really advise you not read the review.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 1, 2007 03:55PM)
MagicSanta should change his name to Jamy Ian Santa.

I have not finished the book, and have only read the first 1/4 of it, and what I've seen so far are fairly sound principles of mentalism and PE brought to the performance of what appears (and sometimes is) stage hypnotism.

I have not finished the book, but just based on what I read, and some of the comments made by MagicSanta (such as not recognizing a standard in stage mentalism and referring to it as a child's game not believing it would work on stage) not recognizing DR, and some of the other principles, I question the applicability of his review for those who perform mystery entertainment vs those who standard magic fare.

Some of his comments mirror my thinking of other products produced by Kenton, but as I said, I have yet to finish this book, I may yet agree with him, but at this point in time, we are miles apart.

Tony
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 1, 2007 04:47PM)
I'd echo Mesmer's and especially mr.Iacoviello's comments...

as an aside,for anyone reading this thinking "hmmm, if I buy this, it'll turn me into derren brown *or whoever*...."

save your pocket-money and don't buy it...that's not the way forward, I found Ultimately under full of good, usuable nuances and straight-forward explanations and some very strong effects if performed with due care and attention...

emphasis on "performed", as you feel your right arm now slowly lifting up as you sit there reading this allowing that sensation to grow and elevate your mind...

whose holding the baloon anyway?

back to the book - yeah, its a jolly fine read...8.5/10
Message: Posted by: teejay (Mar 16, 2008 06:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-06 15:57, abraxus wrote:
Well, it depends on how you define hypnosis in the first place, I'd place it under the term "suggestion"...its kinda like the Completely Cold of suggestion
[/quote]

That kinda puts the kiss of death on it lol
:)
Message: Posted by: Athos (Mar 17, 2008 06:51AM)
Duh,

My wishlist just hit two pages
:lol:

If there is someone who own WW, pm me.

~Max