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Topic: Phenomenon
Message: Posted by: Roy (Sep 29, 2007 09:01AM)
I was one of the nine mentalists competing at the Israeli 'The Successor' with Uri Geller.
This so cool that NBC bought the format which now calls 'Phenomenon'. It was also been sold to Germany.
In Israel the show got so much criticism as well as VERY high rating.
I believe that anywhere else the show will get more respect for it's art.
What do you think about that TV show?

BTW, if you want to see what I've done at the show, look at the links below (it's in Hebrew, but not hard to understand what's going on):

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbabmckvck]Book Test [/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmfmi3fwSkk&mode=related&search=]Mind Reading (I got what was the childhood experience which the model was thinking of) [/url]

:dance:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 29, 2007 10:16AM)
Very good!!!
Did they have Chat Rooms set up to discuss your performances?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Sep 30, 2007 12:01AM)
Keshet TV networks had message board for opinions and talkbacks. Basically it became 'low level' message board.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Sep 30, 2007 07:16AM)
Hey, that show looks actually very nice... love all the lights flashing and the dark set...

I am glad I know my hebrew... great performance, Roei! I almost feel like saying Yosher Corach!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 30, 2007 12:26PM)
Who was on "The Successor" ????
Message: Posted by: Roy (Sep 30, 2007 12:30PM)
Amir Lustig, Ehud Segev, Roei Zaltsman, Shimi Atias, Assaf Nissim, Menny Lindenfeld, Yoni Garcin, Lior Suchard & shimon Nahmani
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 30, 2007 12:32PM)
I saw Ehud Segev in Hollywood.
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Sep 30, 2007 12:35PM)
Yes it looks extremely well done, I hope this is a sign of what we are to see in America. Roei how did you place? Nice set by the way...
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 02:05AM)
The production invested lots of $$$ producing the show. The intro was amazing. I heard that NBC makes an intro that looks alike.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 08:28AM)
It looked like everyone was dressed in a similar fashion. Did they have you wear similar cloths or was that your choice?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 08:50AM)
It seems so. I think there was no apparent reason for that...This is hot out from the oven, a new TV show called Phenomenon to replicate our Israeli version of the successor with Uri Geller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5sRA6typn4
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 08:55AM)
Are some of those clips from your show?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 09:13AM)
The clips at the very first post are the items I did at the Successor show.
The book test is a thing I do on regular basis.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 09:28AM)
I meant the clips on the promo.
There are four dudes and a chic.....I didn't remember seeing any of them in Hollywood either.
Is the US promo clips from the first show
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:35AM)
Slim, I think the people in the deseret are there as "stooges" just for the promo, not part of the show.. notice that Criss is near by. ;)

The parts in the studio are from the Israeli show.
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Oct 2, 2007 11:49AM)
I'm sorry, but the NBC promo is pretty ordinary. It doesn't compare to the extremely entertaining promo for the Israel version: http://www.uri-geller.com/Uri_Show.htm
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 01:02PM)
I like the funny music and theme. Very enjoyable! I put a Spell on You is the background music that The Bean and I use sometimes :)
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Oct 2, 2007 01:19PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 14:02, Slim King wrote:
I like the funny music and theme. Very enjoyable! I put a Spell on You is the background music that The Bean and I use sometimes :)
[/quote]
Screamin' Jay Hawkins, "I put a spell on you" is my ringtone on my handy.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 2, 2007 01:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-29 10:01, Roei wrote:
I was one of the nine mentalists competing at the Israeli 'The Successor' with Uri Geller.
[/quote]

Congradulations Roei.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 02:04PM)
I will not be in the American show.
BTW, four out of the 10 competitors are originally from Israel. At the Phenomenon clip you can see: Menny Lindefeld, Yoni Garcin, Amir Lustig & Shimi Atias who participated with me in the Israeli show 'The Successor'
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 02:21PM)
Hold it now.......
Are you telling me that 40% of the American show are LOSERS from the Israeli show?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 2, 2007 02:22PM)
Wow
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 05:45PM)
No, I'm saing tht four of the new competitors are Israelies who have Green Card and live in USA.
Message: Posted by: fib (Oct 2, 2007 06:00PM)
Outsourcing mentalism.
fib
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 06:18PM)
So these are four guys who didn't make it on the "Successor" show?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 2, 2007 06:20PM)
Slim King, Are you asking this for REAL?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 2, 2007 06:26PM)
I am if he is not.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 06:50PM)
I guess that I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that there are four Israeli Mentalists on the Phenomenon show? Were they contestants on "Successor" or did they just try out for it? I was wondering because I saw Ehud in Hollywood. Of course I'm for REAL. Why wouldn't I have these questions?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 07:11PM)
Slim, Roei just told you that they are not from the Israeli show, but ones who live in the US and have Green Card.

I believe Yigal Meskia is one.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 2, 2007 07:20PM)
So none of these guys were on the show in your world?

Ehud was not on the show in Isreal?

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 07:30PM)
In our world? It's called a country, Jim.

And yes he was, I didn't know that he lives in the US. He deserves to be on the new show if he got chosen, a very talented guy.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 07:34PM)
He already said that Ehud was on the other show.

I’m curious, why are you so concerned whether contestants succeeded or failed at becoming a finalist on the Israeli show?

The fact is that, regardless of past failures or successes, they beat out the present competition to be a finalist on this show.


[quote]
On 2007-10-02 20:20, Jim-Callahan wrote:
So none of these guys were on the show in your world?

Ehud was not on the show in Isreal?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 07:50PM)
I was under the concept of an American show. There were no mentalists auditioning from the UK, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa or any place else. I'm even more confused now. So I guess my question is this..."Did these contestants audition for the SUCCESSOR show in Isreal?" If so, were any of them good enough to make that show? That's all I'm asking.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 07:58PM)
Are you saying that you believe that contestants not born in the USA are banned from auditioning?

Where did you get that impression? Can you provide a link?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 2, 2007 08:01PM)
Elliott B,

I asked a question that was all.

Sorry if ya don't like it.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 08:03PM)
And I asked you a question as well….
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 2, 2007 08:08PM)
Good for you.

Well done.

But since your question is based upon missunderstanding it is an act of futilty to answer it for it will only make sense possibly to the lost.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 08:10PM)
Very well. No problem, then.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 08:16PM)
I see no problem at all. I just thought that this was NBC's "adaptation" of an Israeli show.
http://magicfriend.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/nbcs-new-show-phenomenon-uri-gellercriss-angel/
I wasn't aware that it was also part of the Israeli show. See the difference and how it may be confusing?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 08:29PM)
Slim, just because those mentalists were born in Israel, doesn't mean they were chosen just because of that. It probably means that the producers enjoyed what they saw.

Shouldn't Meskia be allowed there just because of where he was born?
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 08:33PM)
It certainly seems that Israel produces quite a lot of great mentalists!
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 08:34PM)
The search for America's top mentalist has to take in all of the USA and its territories. Perhaps the staff at NBC do not know geography.

But come on, how many did not see this coming?

It would be like Banachek not being part of the show.
And then Gerry not being selected...
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 08:39PM)
But they all live there and have Green Card.. how does that not make them part of the USA?

Weird stuff.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 08:42PM)
My prediction skills are limited. I HONESTLY did not see this coming.
When this was happening there was talk of a show in the UK, Germany and everywhere else. It gave the "Illusion" that each area had it's own show coming.
I was wrong again :)
Message: Posted by: Richie Dagger (Oct 2, 2007 08:45PM)
I was under the same impression as you, Slim.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 08:48PM)
But they are all CITIZENS of the USA. I believe Mesika has lived there for many many years, and so has Segev. Their only "crime" is that they were born in Israel. There's no reason for them to be on the shows in the UK, or Germany because they don't live there.

I could use a certain word here but don't want to upset anyone.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 08:52PM)
Speaking of foreign born mentalism legends, did someone say Banachek would be involved with the show?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 08:52PM)
If there is no reason for them to be on the shows in the UK and Germany, since they are citizens of the US, then why were they on the Israeli show?
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 2, 2007 08:54PM)
Take a chill pill DJM. I know what you're suggesting and it's insulting.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 08:58PM)
I don't see anything odd about foreign born US citizens making it onto an American show whatsoever, even (or especially, considering what the USA is all about) a show billed as the "Search For America's Next Great Mentalist".

There may be some misunderstandings going on here...

(as I understand it) - None of the contestants were on the original Israeli show, they are all US citizens so what's the issue?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:00PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:52, Slim King wrote:
If there is no reason for them to be on the shows in the UK and Germany, since they are citizens of the US, then why were they on the Israeli show?
[/quote]

Who is they? The only one was Segev, and I believe it's because over here we don't really care where every person lives or born.

We had a mentalist on the show named Yaniv Garsin, who I think was born in France. And yet not one seemed to care about it.


[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:54, ALEXANDRE wrote:
Take a chill pill DJM. I know what you're suggesting and it's insulting.
[/quote]

Not sure what you thought I meant, I was talking about jealousy.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 09:01PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 15:10, Roei wrote:
At the Phenomenon clip you can see: Menny Lindefeld, Yoni Garcin, Amir Lustig & Shimi Atias who participated with me in the Israeli show 'The Successor'.
[/quote]

I think Roel is reffering to the clips they used in the promo, NOT the new set of competitors.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:04PM)
Sorry, I meant Yoni Garcin.
Message: Posted by: Oyama (Oct 2, 2007 09:08PM)
DJM- that's exactly what I thought you were suggesting and that is insulting.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:10PM)
Well, that's why I didn't say it the first time.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 09:11PM)
I hope you all realize that this argument is based on a misunderstanding.

Slim thinks (I think he thinks, anyway) that the participants from the original Israeli show will also be in the new US show Phenomenon, right? Which would be a bit odd, of course.

DJM thinks (I think) that Slim is saying that foreign born (especially Israeli) US citizens shouldn't be allowed to participate (or at least that they were unfairly chosen) in the US show.

Dual Reality effect.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 09:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:48, DJM wrote:
But they are all CITIZENS of the USA. I believe Mesika has lived there for many many years, and so has Segev. Their only "crime" is that they were born in Israel. There's no reason for them to be on the shows in the UK, or Germany because they don't live there.

I could use a certain word here but don't want to upset anyone.
[/quote]

Why were they on the show is Israel? Just using your logic...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 09:17PM)
I am so happy to have had the privilage of auditioning for Phenomenon. For a fellow of limited experience and time invested in the art I feel fortunate to have made it as far as I did. I met a bunch of cool cats at the auditions. Getting out of the Florida heat was great!
It seems that Roei has the inside track on who IS and who ISN'T on the show. That intrigues me. I've asked a few questions. No one has answered them yet. Just a bunch of Smoke and false assumptions.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 2, 2007 09:20PM)
Could be pure speculation. I haven't heard a definitive NO from them to this day as far as my participation on the show.

We'll find out soon enough.
Message: Posted by: Oyama (Oct 2, 2007 09:20PM)
DJM- It was the second time that was insulting.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 09:22PM)
DJM -

Were any of the participants that made it to the finals in the show Phenomenon also participants in the Israeli show?

Slim -

I still think Roei was referring to the fact that some promo clips used in the Phenomenon teaser were from the Israeli show.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:24PM)
[quote]

Why were they on the show is Israel? Just using your logic...
[/quote]

Tony, what are you saying?

In all the reality shows here we usually get people who were born in Russia (in fact many Russians can be seen on the same show), Ethiopia, America, Asia or anywhere else. And they are Israeli citizens.


Why is it such a big deal for you where the people were born? You were talking about georgraphy earlier, but I think you mean ethnics.

Tone, Segev was the only one in the Israeli show, but he's also a US citizen. I explained it in the previous pages.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 09:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 22:24, DJM wrote:
[quote]

Why were they on the show is Israel? Just using your logic...
[/quote]

Tony, what are you saying?

In all the reality shows here we usually get people who were born in Russia (in fact many Russians can be seen on the same show), Ethiopia, America, Asia or anywhere else. And they are Israeli citizens.

Why is it such a big deal for you where the people were born? You were talking about georgraphy earlier, but I think you mean ethnics.
[/quote]

What I'm saying is, if they compete in one country as a citizen, representing the best of that country, how can they compete in another as the best of that country?

If they compete in Israel as Israeli citizens, how can they also compete as US citizens?

And no, I said and meant geography. I’m the last person you want to infer anything concerning ethnic-anything about unless it is diversity.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 09:38PM)
Tone...Roei said this
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 3:04pm
I will not be in the American show.
BTW, four out of the 10 competitors are originally from Israel.
Mentalist |Corporate Entertainer |MARS 2007 Seminar

Seems to say that four of the Phenomenon contestants are originally from Israel.

My qestion was this
"Did these contestants audition for the SUCCESSOR show in Isreal?" If so, were any of them good enough to make that show? That's all I'm asking.

That's all I'm asking?
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 09:39PM)
I guess I'll admit that I, too, am now a bit confused...
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:42PM)
[quote]

What I'm saying is, if they compete in one country as a citizen, representing the best of that country, how can they compete in another as the best of that country?

If they compete in Israel as Israeli citizens, how can they also compete as US citizens?

And no, I said and meant geography. I’m the last person you want to infer anything concerning ethnic-anything about unless it is diversity.
[/quote]


I believe the exact same way a foreign basketball player in the NBA can both represent the US and a few months later do the same for his home country in the Olympics or any other International competition. Not much different.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 09:44PM)
Israel is like the NBA?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 09:46PM)
Working in one county (as in the NBA) and representing his home country in the Olympics makes sense. But representing both countries as an Olympic participant does not.

BIG DIFFERENCE (caps to make it big, not yell)

Here is a different question, is NBC so hard up for contestants that they have to draft losers from the original show to complete it's cast? Or is this what was meant when we were told that Uri would bring some people to the show and that letting they in is the payoff to Uri?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 2, 2007 09:51PM)
...oh oh... I detect a pie tossing contest brewing....
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 09:53PM)
Sorry, I gave up pie for a while.

BTW, I was not inferring in any way, shape, or form that anyone selected for the show is not talented. But we all know there are many things that go into picking a cast.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 09:56PM)
Tony, Segev has had an Off-Broadway show in NY in the last few years, and some other plays... I think that's pretty good to get him on the show.

I'm sure you know that Mesika is a great mentalist who has contributed a lot to the art.

It seems to me like they are more than just some people that the producers did a favor to get on the show.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:00PM)
Yes, and Angela Funovits is a top notch mentalist too.
There are many things that go into picking a cast.

Segev had his shot when he competed in Isreal. My opinion.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 10:07PM)
Segev did a great job all through the episodes, and was very close to win in the finals.

Can't wait to see him again on the new show.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:12PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 22:46, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Working in one county (as in the NBA) and representing his home country in the Olympics makes sense. But representing both countries as an Olympic participant does not.

BIG DIFFERENCE (caps to make it big, not yell)

Here is a different question, is NBC so hard up for contestants that they have to draft losers from the original show to complete it's cast? Or is this what was meant when we were told that Uri would bring some people to the show and that letting they in is the payoff to Uri?
[/quote]


Since when is Phenomenon the Olympics?

It’s not even “American Mentalist” or “America’s Top Mentalist”

Of course, as far as I am aware, the idol and model shows do not require a contestant to be born in America…and those shows have “America” in the title.

There seems to be an implication that, because Segev was on the other show or was born in Israel, that he got a free pass…and did not have to worry about competing like every other contestant..that “REAL” Americans with better skills were turned down in his stead

That’s a pretty strong allegation. Do you have any proof to back it up?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 10:18PM)
There are about 300 Million US citizens in the US. About 5 Million are of Israeli decent (Please correct me if I'm wrong on semantics here)......(Or the mathematics :) )
That's about 2% at the most.
There are 10 contestants in the American version of the show.
What is the statistical probability of four Israeli's on the same show?
Just a Mathematical question.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 10:18PM)
Elliott, not only that. I get the impression from Tony that he thinks also the other Israelis on the new show got a free pass, just because of where they were born.

[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:34, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
The search for America's top mentalist has to take in all of the USA and its territories. Perhaps the staff at NBC do not know geography.

But come on, how many did not see this coming?
[/quote]

Posted: Oct 2, 2007 11:21pm
And now Slim confirmed that this is what he himself thinks.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:23PM)
It was not my allusion, criticize DJM for it if you don't like it, it's his.

Nope, you are right, America's Top Mentalist does not really mean America's, or even America, it does not mean Top, or anywhere near the best (as most refused the show), Mentalist is not really meant, because they are not all mentalists.

Thank's for putting it into perspective. :righton:

No allegation was made. I asked a fairly direct question.

Here is another, if the show ends up in the UK next year, how many people will discover their Irish roots and compete there?

Posted: Oct 2, 2007 11:28pm
Quote:


On 2007-10-02 23:18, DJM wrote:
Elliott, not only that. I get the impression from Tony that he thinks also the other Israelis on the new show got a free pass, just because of where they were born.

Quote:


On 2007-10-02 21:34, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
The search for America's top mentalist has to take in all of the USA and its territories. Perhaps the staff at NBC do not know geography.

But come on, how many did not see this coming?




I was told directly by a casting director that Uri Geller was bringing people to the show. They were not competing with the rest through the initial audition and evaluation phases.

But hey, that's show biz!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 10:31PM)
I am only asking questions. Do you fear to answer them? I met Segev. Have you? He impressed the execs to no end. He's a great guy. I don't have a bad thing to say about him. I also met several of the other contestants...all great fellows. Unfortunately I didn't get to meet all the guys from the UK. I'd love to have met Looch and the rest. They weren't there. Tom Baxter would have been cool too. Plenty of Canadians I would like to have met! I would have enjoyed meeting some Germans and South African mentalists...I hear they are fantastic!
I think the general idea was that everyone would eventually get their own shot. That's what most of us thought.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:34PM)
[quote]

I was told directly by a casting director that Uri Geller was bringing people to the show. They were not competing with the rest through the initial audition and evaluation phases.
[/quote]

What makes you assume it was Ehud? Is it that they are both Israeli's?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:39PM)
Where did I say I did? What I said about him DIRECTLY was that he had his shot. FACT, he competed in Israel and did not win as Israel's top mentalist. Now he is competing as America's top mentalist.

My opinion, he had his shot.

Just because Uri said he was going to bring people, and Ehud impressed Uri during his appearence in the previous version of this show does not mean that Uri brought him.

Also on a personal note, I've seen the Mentalizer show and enjoyed it.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 10:39PM)
Slim, do you know exactly where every person was born? Did you check the biography of each one of the people who were there?
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:39PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 23:18, Slim King wrote:
There are about 300 Million US citizens in the US. About 5 Million are of Israeli decent (Please correct me if I'm wrong on sematics here)......(Or the mathematics :) )
That's about 2% at the most.
There are 10 contestants in the American version of the show.
What is the statistical probability of four Israeli's on the same show?
Just a Mathematical question.
[/quote]

Are you saying that just because 4 Israeli Americans beat the odds, the producers should fill their slots with weaker performers of nationalities more representative of the population?

Are you saying that you or other applicants are more skilled than Ehud, and should have been selected in his place?

I guess we’ll see how Ehud compares to the rest soon enough. If he makes it past the first round, all arguments will be moot.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:42PM)
First rounds will be the most difficult, very short time periods.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 10:43PM)
Maybe that they both worked on the same show? DAAAAAA
Why do you go there? Tony is as fair and balanced as they get!
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:44PM)
[quote]

My opinion, he had his shot.

[/quote]

If the rules of the competition bar candidates who competed in the Israeli competition, then I agree with you 100%

If there is no such rule for the competition, then we are just making up our own rules.

Here, I’ll make one up…

Rule 1: All competitors must submit their life savings to ElliottB as an entrance fee
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:45PM)
EB

What is surprising is not that Ehud made the show but
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 15:10, Roei wrote:
At the Phenomenon clip you can see: Menny Lindefeld, Yoni Garcin, Amir Lustig & Shimi Atias who participated with me in the Israeli show 'The Successor'.
[/quote]

Near half the cast of the Israeli show SEEMS to be in the show.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:46PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 23:43, Slim King wrote:
Maybe that they both worked on the same show? DAAAAAA
Why do you go there? Tony is as fair and balanced as they get!
[/quote]

I am sure Uri and Mr. Angel know MANY people in the mentalism community.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 10:47PM)
And Eliot...All this ARE YOU SAYING stuff gets anoying. Are you trying to flame this by putting trying to put words in everyones mouth?
I asked a mathematical question.
On an even playing field the odds are over 20 to 1.
Just the facts :)
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:48PM)
I think SEEMS is the operative word. I guess we'll find out.


[quote]
On 2007-10-02 23:45, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
EB

What is surprising is not that Ehud made the show but
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 15:10, Roei wrote:
At the Phenomenon clip you can see: Menny Lindefeld, Yoni Garcin, Amir Lustig & Shimi Atias who participated with me in the Israeli show 'The Successor'.
[/quote]

Near half the cast of the Israeli show SEEMS to be in the show.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 2, 2007 10:48PM)
Yes, they are only in the promo for the show.

(That was why I capitalized it...) ;)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 10:52PM)
It has already been explained a few times that what you see on the promo is to describe what the show is about. The mentalists there won't be on the new one.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 10:55PM)
I am sorry that you find a recap of your own statements annoying. I am trying to be polite.

You know the top three students in my undergraduate class were members of just 2% of the population. Not only that, but a member of said population was #1 in both undergrad and grad (we won’t name this fellow.) I am sure that, as part of a vast conspiracy, his teachers must have given him an unfair edge.


[quote]
On 2007-10-02 23:47, Slim King wrote:
And Eliot...All this ARE YOU SAYING stuff gets anoying. Are you trying to flame this by putting trying to put words in everyones mouth?
I asked a mathematical question.
On an even playing field the odds are over 20 to 1.
Just the facts :)
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 11:00PM)
So you are saying that only a small percent of the population attend your school so it is obvious that anyone who excelled would be from an even smaller percentage.
Makes sense but it doesn't apply here at all.
Keep trying :)
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 11:02PM)
My school had a fair representation of the population of the USA. Your assumption that the top of the class could not be represented by 2% of said population is faulty.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 11:04PM)
Keep trying :)
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 11:06PM)
Keep trying what?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 2, 2007 11:10PM)
What I don't get is that Geller has lived in England for the last 35 years, more than he ever lived in Israel. Doesn't it make more sense that he would also choose some British mentalists if it's all up to him?

Criss of course chose all his American friends.

Jim Callahan must have gotten there by mistake.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 2, 2007 11:34PM)
...and while you guys were continuing this thread, you missed another mind blowing episode of "Mindfreak"!
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 2, 2007 11:36PM)
Good point.

Well folks, I think we all agree that this discussion is going around in circles. At this point, it’s all speculation any which way. I, for one, would like to end the discussion…or at least my contribution (if you want to call it that) to our great debate and head to sleep.

I suppose the show will be either good or bad. I remember reading that most of top caliber mentalists declined to audition. Hopefully, the fellows that showed up will be sufficiently entertaining.

At the very least, I hope that no significant exposure results from the program.

And that’s all I have to say about Phenomenon...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 2, 2007 11:53PM)
New Orleans calls in a few hours. I'm glad we've solved the worlds problems :)
I will get new VooDoo dolls for all of the contestants so that the outcome will remain in my hands! :)
:cheers:
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 12:13AM)
Have a safe trip down Bourbon Street, and keep your top on. :)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 3, 2007 01:06AM)
Wow I am surprised that over night (in Israel) that post made such a big debate.
Here is the answer: I know for SURE that four of the ten competitors at 'Phenomenon' are FORMER Israelis who now live and work in USA.
Three of them did not audition for the 'Successor'. One of them was in the 'Successor' show.
I believe that we all see who is in the show (which NBC keeps as a top secret) on October 24th.

Now, for the sake of WHY four Israelis are the show: I believe that's because many Israelis are very good mentalists. They didn't go to the audition with ESP card tricks or card to pocket effects.
Also…remember were Uri Geller originally came from….

I guess that the production really wants mentalist on the border of 'maybe do have something in them' and not ordinary magicians that will be overlooked.
Message: Posted by: mystic1 (Oct 3, 2007 01:38AM)
It is funny and sad--more sad than funny--to see people arguing about factors which pale in significance to the fiasco of this show being on in the first place. "Phenomenon" can only hurt mentalists. (No matter where they hail from!)

Exposure of methods in various manners. Mental magic tarring more legitimate mentalism. And most likely some botched performances a la "America's Got Talent." Almost all of us will regret "Phenomenon."

So much will seem less special, less mystifying, less unique to the public.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 01:57AM)
What I find funny is that certain people on this forum have been idolizing Geller, and couldn't say any bad things about him. But the second that he does something that is against them, then that's when the criticism comes.

Life can be pretty ironic sometimes. :D
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 3, 2007 02:07AM)
In Israel the show made a big noise. Every week there were at least 3 articles at the main newspapers AGAINTS the show. Some magicians who weren't accepted to the show exposed gimmicks like clipboards in other TV shows.

There was a morning show host who went to magic store and purchased gimmicks as the invisable loops. He did tricks on his show every day claiming HE doesn't have special powers.

The funniest thing about that is that none of the mentalists at 'the Successor' claimed to have supernatural abilities at the first place.

I don't know if the 'Phenomenon' will get as much publicity and/or criticism.
One thing is for sure: in USA the show will get more respect because Americans admit the enjoy magic/mentalism way more then Israelis.
Message: Posted by: Virungan (Oct 3, 2007 02:25AM)
I see the ad campaign is up and running...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5sRA6typn4
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 02:32AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 03:07, Roei wrote:
The funniest thing about that is that none of the mentalists at 'the Successor' claimed to have supernatural abilities at the first place.

[/quote]

There were a couple there who claimed it in the first episodes, during the short biograhpy video clips. Though I remember you were not one of them.
Message: Posted by: RIMA2282 (Oct 3, 2007 02:39AM)
Roei,
If I did answer the question I wasn't going to say anything bad, but in today's society you can't say anything without offending or ****ing off someone so that is why I didn't say it.

Also you said in Israeli a morning talk show host went to a magic store and bought stuff to expose it. See that is what I am afraid of happening in the US if this show become popular. I hope the people on this show you very clever and devious methods that you can't buy at magic stores or find online. If I was the producer I would say everything has to be original and you can't do stuff that can be purchased at "magic stores."

I rather see some good strong mentalism and not mental magic. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE between the two and if you disagree you are not a mentalist, you are a magician. Also it looks like they gave it a supernatural spin trying to find a person who has "powers" if that is the case the heck did they want magicians, everyone in society knows that magicians don't have powers, but they might believe a mentalist does.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 3, 2007 03:09AM)
I don't get it. When mentalist come to perform in America, there is not a lot of drama. So what is wrong with mentalist performing in other countries? We are all God's children.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 3, 2007 03:54AM)
- Dynamike, ? ? ? I didn't get it. What did you mean?

- The host at the morning TV show did not expose the secrets he bought. He said: You see, I can do it too and don't have supernatural abilities.

- RIMA2282, thank you for explaining your other post. I believe that TV producers can't know what is original. There are gimmicks which are not the effects as the invisible loops and you can get it at magic stores and dealers...

If you want to see all the numbers we did on the show, get to the following link, press on any competitor's picture and you'll get to his page with everything he did as well as clips hat were made for the successor web page only.

http://www.keshet-tv.com/geller/Candidates.aspx

Oh, you'll have to overcome the fact it's all in Hebrew (not that hard to understand though).
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 3, 2007 04:03AM)
Thanks for all of the information Roei. You've been a great help!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 3, 2007 07:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 04:54, Roei wrote:
- Dynamike, ? ? ? I didn't get it. What did you mean?
[/quote]
I meant the same thing Slim King put; "Thank you, you are a big help."
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 3, 2007 09:08AM)
I'm 41 years old and have worked in television for nearly 20 years as a voice over talent.

I won't say who, what or when, but I can tell you that many times, as an experienced voice over talent, I've been told that they HAVE to have an audition process but that I already had the job.

Why? Because people with influence liked me, my voice and my work ethics.

I have always felt weird about this because I wondered how many times I auditioned for something in the early days and had my hopes up, when in fact someone already had the gig.

Did this happen on this show to some? It's very possible that it has ... then again maybe not.

I've had producers say they will work with me on a particular job and only me and they make it difficult for people to chose anyone else. Did this happen here? Could have ... then again maybe not.

Uri Geller or even Criss Angel could've said "Look, I want this person in or I won't do this or that, or I walk, or etc...."

I use to fight that old saying "it's who you know", but as I get older I realize that "who you know" can be a HUGE help in anything you do.

The reality is we might've thought we were all competing for ten spots when in reality there were only six, or seven, or eight, or five. Who knows.

If there is a Phenomenon in England you bet your sweet *ss I'll be there auditioning, so I don't particularly see anything wrong with that. The only problem I see is from the production standpoint, if they want America to vote, don't have a show with eight foreigners and two Americans (for instance) because Americans won't be inspired and motivated to vote, and the show makes money when people vote.

Also, it sounds weird to have AMERICA'S TOP MENTALIST be a young girl from Turkey, as an example.

If England's Phenomenon has three Americans, two Mexicans, two Israelis, and one Brazilian, English citizens might not be too excited about voting week after week on the show. Why would they care?

I don't speak German, but wouldn't it be unlikely that American ALEXANDRE from Miami Florida would win German's Phenomenon show? Can you imagine me there with the balloons and confetti dropping, holding the big check in the end?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 09:40AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 10:08, ALEXANDRE wrote:

Also, it sounds weird to have AMERICA'S TOP MENTALIST be a young girl from Turkey, as an example.

If England's Phenomenon has three Americans, two Mexicans, two Israelis, and one Brazilian, English citizens might not be too excited about voting week after week on the show. Why would they care?

I don't speak German, but wouldn't it be unlikely that American ALEXANDRE from Miami Florida would win German's Phenomenon show? Can you imagine me there with the balloons and confetti dropping, holding the big check in the end?
[/quote]


America's Got Talent has 2 judges that are British.. that also doesn't make sense to you?

Dania from the Quick Change was born in Russia, and yet it didn't prevent people watching her and David over 20 million times on Youtube. They were a big success.

We had our own version of that show a few weeks ago, and we had partcipants from other countries like, Russia, France, Georgia (the country), and America.. no one seemed to have a problem about it.

So maybe your claims are pretty baseless that viewers don't want to see foreigns on shows like this.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 3, 2007 09:43AM)
ALEXANDRE, all 4 Israelis on the show are US citizens (having Green Card), which makes them American, right?
If you ever attend the German Phenomenon and win a check, I'll split it with you (or at least, save me some confetti).... :)
Message: Posted by: Lior (Oct 3, 2007 09:44AM)
They are all citizens of the USA now
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 09:47AM)
Roei

[quote] all 4 Israelis on the show are US citizens (having Green Card), which makes them American, right? [/quote]

No, it does not. It just means that they are legal immigrants, they are not US citizens.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 3, 2007 09:50AM)
I never said viewers don't want to see foreigners on these shows, sure they do.

From a production standpoint I'm just suggesting that the majority of contestants would have to be from the country where the show is being produced, that's all.

Especially here in America where all things American are very important.

But that wasn't the main point of my post anyway....
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 10:01AM)
[quote]
From a production standpoint I'm just suggesting that the majority of contestants would have to be from the country where the show is being produced, that's all.
[/quote]

They are, they live there.

[quote]
Especially here in America where all things American are very important.[/quote]

Sorry, I doubt that Americans are that shallow.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 3, 2007 10:01AM)
Arnold (The Terminator) isn't an American citizen?????

Watch out...... KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK

"Tony Eye?"

"Yes?"

.....
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 10:12AM)
He has gone through the process, taken the tast, sworn the oath and renounce citizenship in any other country.

Much different than having a green card or visa.

(I went through this process when we moved to the US, my wife was a foreign national.)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 10:18AM)
Does it say in the contract of the show that you need to be a US citizen to perform there, or it's just a Magic Café rule?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 10:25AM)
No, why do you ask?
If this upsets you, address it to Roei as he brought up the question this morning.

The show is just being billed as the search for America's next great mentalist.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 10:30AM)
I ask because some people make it seem like that show is actually looking for the next great American mentalist.

Thanks for your answer.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 10:33AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 11:30, DJM wrote:
I ask because some people make it seem like that show is actually looking for the next great American mentalist.

[/quote]

That IS how the show has been billed and promoted thus far.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 10:40AM)
NBC has announced Phenomenon, a new reality competition series that will follow mentalist Uri Geller and Criss Angel Mindfreak illusionist Criss Angel as they search for "the next great mentalist," will premiere on Wednesday, October 24 at 8PM ET/PT


Where was it billed as looking for American mentalists? I'd love to see.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 3, 2007 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 11:01, Dr Spektor wrote:
Arnold (The Terminator) isn't an American citizen?????
[/quote]

I'll be back.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 10:50AM)
I'll send you the copies I made of the casting notices and description posted on NBC.COM at the original announcement of the show, and initial casting information.

That will be PMed to you tonight when I get home and have access to it.

Then you can look to your heart's content.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 10:50AM)
Heck I did not know it was just for mentalists.


J ack'

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 10:53AM)
It isn't. One time it was for psychics, another magicians, illusionists, and mentalists (heck, possibly lions, tigers, and bears) BUT it was not for Psychic Entertainers.

Now it is for mentalists (according to DJM's post), not sure why magicians are on the show though. ;)
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 3, 2007 10:58AM)
Hey Tony, is it for Dynamike-ist too? If so, I'm in.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 11:00AM)
No Mike. Season Two might be though. ;)

DJM's message says mentalist.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 3, 2007 12:18PM)
Gentlemen, I can assure you all, as a bonafide englishman, we would welcome one and all to our shores...we are afterall, a sponge like migrant group of people, we would indeed vote for just about anyone or anything that entertained us...chimps in hats drinking tea would go down massively well for example..

anyone with a massive ego with nothing to back it up would be instantly berated though..look what we did to your Blaine when he sat in that box being all glum for a week..we played golf at the lad to try and cheer him up...

come on over, no matter what your creed, or credo, though we'll pelt your ego with eggs if needs be...

I hope they do an english phenom...we'll show you how it's done!

please take that previous comment in good humour...being american is purely a state of mind as far as I'm concerned..without reservations that is...

tally ho!
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 3, 2007 12:44PM)
Reading this thread I am struck by how it has descended into pettiness. Even dragging in some of our more respected and usually thoughtful members.

The fact is that we don't really know what the producers are thinking/planning/promising. All we know is that they are going to try to produce a show to get the biggest ratings they can. And they are going to choose the performers whom they think will garner them those ratings. Period.

All the rest is commentary.

Bob
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Oct 3, 2007 12:49PM)
I am reserving my opinion of the show until it debuts. I will be rooting for one or two contestants that I know.

I really hope this results in a positive spin for working magicians/mentalists.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 3, 2007 12:50PM)
Pettiness, bitterness, fragile egos...

anway...be careful what you wish for folks...good luck to all who made it through, best of british to you all...do yourself proud...
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 12:52PM)
Bob,

I would say in many respects it is speculation of what might be in the big box with the bow.

I also can see were some guys might be riled if they took the trip and then found out it was not an even playing feild.
Some were allready on the team just becouse of who they know, etc.

Who would not be?

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: TheGreatGalling (Oct 3, 2007 01:02PM)
Post deleted
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 3, 2007 01:09PM)
J ack:

I agree. I suppose this is one of the frustrations of show business. It's never a level playing field. When my son was acting in TV commercials, we learned that the SAG and AFTRA contracts require that there be open auditions even when the commercial or TV show or movie was already virtually cast. (Note Alexandre's comments above.)

And I, too, would be annoyed if I later found out that the deck was stacked against me. Of course, we don't know if the Israeli guys were on board from the beginning, or were brought in later to add variety, or what.

Best,

Bob
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 01:26PM)
Bob

Tell me about it, my daughter was in modeling for a few years (print and commercial).

Tony
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 3, 2007 02:20PM)
So clearly she get her good looks from her mother! ;)

B
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 02:24PM)
Truer words!

My niece (wife's niece) was Junior Miss Korea.
(Probably the inspiration for my daughter)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 3, 2007 03:38PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 13:44, Bob Baker wrote:
Reading this thread I am struck by how it has descended into pettiness. Even dragging in some of our more respected and usually thoughtful members.

The fact is that we don't really know what the producers are thinking/planning/promising. All we know is that they are going to try to produce a show to get the biggest ratings they can. And they are going to choose the performers whom they think will garner them those ratings. Period.

All the rest is commentary.

Bob
[/quote]


Bob, you couldn't be more accurate!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 3, 2007 05:36PM)
Wish I'd known a few of these things before my "Vacation" in Hollywood. :)
Thanks again Roei for giving us the inside track. Why does no one else "In The Know" help clarify this situation? Many of us are still confused. Not hard to be in my case :)
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 3, 2007 07:15PM)
Slim

It would not have made any difference. All we can do is do what we do as best we can, and present ourselves as we wish to be seen. Other considerations are outside our control.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 08:19PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 13:52, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Bob,

I would say in many respects it is speculation of what might be in the big box with the bow.

I also can see were some guys might be riled if they took the trip and then found out it was not an even playing feild.
Some were allready on the team just becouse of who they know, etc.

Who would not be?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

That's funny, Jim. You have an old article posted on Geller's website, full of thanks and compliments as usual. In addition, you've been posting threads dedicated to him on this board in the last year, the most famous one was the long "Have You Thanked Uri?" thread.

Are you sure it was an even playing field for you?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 08:33PM)
No it was not and this is well documented.

It was much much worse for me.
I had the longest and most intenese of the intervuiws.

If you are real you are not treated the same as the mentalists.

I am the only person of my type to audition.


J ack

H.o.A-X
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 08:39PM)
I'm sure Uri and Criss think you are real.. You've beaten the odds, such a big surprise.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 08:51PM)
Not to me or those who know me.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 08:55PM)
So it wasn't a surprise to Geller?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 09:04PM)
Do not know the man personaly.
Also why do you think I am oN
the show?

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 3, 2007 09:13PM)
Because I know I'll be quite sad if you aren't :(

I want a paranormalist in the running!!!!
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 3, 2007 09:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 22:04, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Do not know the man personaly.
Also why do you think I am oN
the show?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]


I don't know, I wasn't there.

I just hope you didn't forget to send him another thank you email, and to remind how much he's influenced you.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 3, 2007 09:25PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 22:04, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Also why do you think I am oN
the show?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

An iTricks rumor mentions your name as being part of the show, J ack, along with Gerry McCambridge, Wayne Hoffman, Yigal Mesika, Angela Funovits and Jim Karol. I also heard that Dr. Wendy Woo and possibly Raymond P. Hill might be on there too.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 3, 2007 09:30PM)
Oh my it looks like they have quite the guest list.
(However it is not confirmed)

Alice will be vexed that she was overlooked.
Well possibly next year.

J ack
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 3, 2007 09:51PM)
I plan to be there next year J ack ... hopefully with a few wise words from you and Dr. Wendy Woo's psychological/mentalism therapy sessions I will be more ready than ever to "mindfreak" the producers.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 4, 2007 08:33AM)
How did the birthplace of anyone get involved in the discussion? Man talk about not relevant. I am hoping despiratly to be entertained. I have no care WHERE anyone is from.

I will be upset (not shocked mind you) if it is not entertaining. I don't give a rats hind parts where people are from. Bring them from everywhere! Heck what could be more "American" than that?
Message: Posted by: stanalger (Oct 4, 2007 08:42AM)
On a related note....

America's Psychic Challenge premieres on Lifetime Oct. 12.
(10/9c)

From TV Guide:
"Sixteen alleged clairvoyants compete against one another to see
whose powers are the greatest. This, of course, begs the question
of why 15 of them don't know right from the start that they're
wasting their time."
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 4, 2007 10:22AM)
Gee, how come we didn't hear about THESE auditions?

Another season 2 for me to go for.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 4, 2007 10:33AM)
Alexandre

Knowing about the auditions was the first part of the audition. ;)
Message: Posted by: J.Dunaway (Oct 4, 2007 10:40AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-04 11:33, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Alexandre

Knowing about the auditions was the first part of the audition. ;)
[/quote]

Hahahahaaaaaaa... Great... J ACK you are indeed on the show then?
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 4, 2007 10:46AM)
See ... looking back I did have a prophetic dream about the show, but I couldn't quite decipher it. My bad.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 4, 2007 12:34PM)
What other Networks are putting together a show right now?....We should find out!

Posted: Oct 4, 2007 1:49pm
The math smarties figured the odds.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=228505&forum=99&3
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 4, 2007 09:41PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-03 22:04, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Do not know the man personaly.
Also why do you think I am oN
the show?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

Jim/J ack:

Did you perform your balloon animal or linking rings routines any time during the audition process?

Did you see Uri at all?

Did he thank you for having thanked him?

Were you Jim Callahan or Jack Galloway or both at different or the same times?

Did both fill out applications for the show?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 4, 2007 09:47PM)
Does it matter?

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 4, 2007 09:51PM)
I am confused, are you denying that you're on the show Jim? It wouldn't be the first time something on the internet turned out not to be true...
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 4, 2007 10:02PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-04 22:47, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Does it matter?

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

It interests me, it probably would interest others, and to that extent it matters.

So go ahead and answer.

Do I need to get signatures on a petition for you to share your experiences with us?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 4, 2007 10:05PM)
Arnon,

I was myself.

No to all other questions.

J ack
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 4, 2007 10:08PM)
What effects did you perform for your audition(s)?

Are they on your DVDs?

Arnon
Message: Posted by: J.Dunaway (Oct 5, 2007 01:46AM)
Hey Jim I thought I'd just pass it your way that a member of another former, named Gambit at Ellusionist, said you were a real nice guy and pretty interesting, and not arrogant at all.
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Oct 5, 2007 04:13AM)
Must be another side we havent seen then. Because on here, when you name call and act so full of yourself, it seems very disrespectful. I couldn't imagine Banachek, Eugene Burger, Larry Becker, Docc Hilford, etc. make snide comments like the ones I have seen. Okay, so you are BETTER than all of us, we get it now!
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 5, 2007 07:08AM)
Mystification,

That is your opinion.
Thanks for participating.

Kreate,

Please pass my thanks and best wishes onto Sam 'Gambit'.

Arnon,

I created new experiments for the audition.


J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 5, 2007 07:26AM)
Mystification...You don't think those guys are on here with their real names do you. They rarely if ever use their real names. We acually have no idea who YOU are, since you don't use your real name and there is no information in your bio.
Anyone who uses a pre-published effect for this show might be doomed :)
Jim is not that stupid.
Sam's a cool cat too!
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Oct 5, 2007 08:04AM)
Hey Slim,

Banachek and Osterlind, just to name the first two off hand that popped into my mind uses their real names. Both have been very helpful to myself and others on here. Im sure you may be right, that some do not. However, I have pm'd Max Maven, Richard Osterlind, Banachek, Eugene Burger, and others on here and they have always been very respectful, as have I been respectful to them. It is called professionalism. I have even conversed with you several times and I always came away feeling that you are a nice guy that is not selfish at all. I thank you for that.

As far as Jim, I have pm'd him several times to not even get a reply. That's cool, no problem. However, why call names? Why be rude?

It is disheartening to me that someone with his obvious talent feels the need to become rude and arrogant.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 5, 2007 08:16AM)
Maybe J ack is the arrogant one, not Jim. Sometimes it's hard to tell.
Message: Posted by: burst (Oct 5, 2007 08:24AM)
Maybe he was just busy and lost your PM? Since I have joined here, my private messages have been randomly lost quite a few times. Try emailing him. Keep in mind he's a busy guy and it could take awhile.

He's called me when I've had questions that he could have answered with an email, or not at all. We've also just talked. The first time we talked he didn't really know who I was.

I don't see you're talking about at all.

/paul.f
Message: Posted by: Dr. Wendy Woo (Oct 5, 2007 08:30AM)
I can tell you personally that Jim is a wonderful man. Very generous, helpful, and handsome.

Unlike some on here I choose to use my real name. I'm an open book. Why not let us know who some of you are who make these comments about others? If no one knows you what difference does it make to put your real name? Bart? Larry? Frank? Whatever.... People who don't use their real names, have no email address or contact information are without question using pseudonyms to hide their real identity.

As a Dr. of psychology I can see through a lot of bs from some of you guys....
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 5, 2007 08:39AM)
Dave, you have the doomed part correct I think.
(And not just the performers on the show.)

A person googles your name and a bunch of exposure clips and posts come up because you used 'effects' from a magic shop or a well known DVD / book in your act on the show.

From reading it looks as though exposure was a problem in the first show.

Can you imagine the potential blood letting that will go on in the USA?
Just the shear size of our country to Israel almost guarantees an amplification of the events from the first show.

I know several auditioned with store bought work.
If they use the same things on show the rest of the country
will know this also I fear.

I do not doubt some magicians will be more than happy to expose on chat shows.
The radio, television, print, their own websites.

And then there is You Tube.
Were if you have things posted people will be able to post explanations that will come up when your videos come up if they use the same descriptive words.

It will be an interesting six weeks.

-Jim

I thank those who have shown me kindness and their public support.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 5, 2007 11:03AM)
Good luck to you Jim! Nice to see another 'southerner' doing well!

Chad
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Oct 5, 2007 11:45AM)
Coming from a fellow Israeli(myself), magic is a very popular hobby and interest in Israel
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 5, 2007 12:39PM)
After seven pages of petty and ugly speculation on this thread, complaining of the alleged uneven playing field for Israelis and Jim/J ack the Gellerite (sounds biblical :lol:), I suggest you check out Ehud Segev's statement at his website, dated [i][b]yesterday[/i],[/b] that:

"I auditioned for a new PRIMETIME tv show - "PHENOMENON" - that will air on NBC.
This show will be hosted by Criss Angel and Uri Geller as they search for the world's greatest mentalist!
I believe I will get an answer from them soon - so cross your fingers for me!!!"
http://www.mentalizer.com/News/NewsItem.aspx?i=59
The foregoing seems to contradict most of the irresponsible posts here.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 5, 2007 12:46PM)
Why?

Did you not see his posts on YouTube?

Not that there is anything wrong with them.

Just that it looks like he just aint telling the real deal on his site.

J ack

H.o.A-X
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 5, 2007 03:28PM)
I've seen his show on DVD. He's good.

And I'm sure he was out there being close to his family, but he was also "continuing his mission as a performer" on the Israeli version of the show this past year because he got second place.

By coincidence I had visited his site just days ago because a friend let me borrow his DVD and it was posted in a couple of places that he got second place on Israel's "Phenomenon" as he called it. That info is no longer there, or at least I couldn't find it now.

I find it kind of funny that he doesn't know if he's going to be on the show but he starts calling himself Phenomenon Mentalist when just days ago it was different.

I think he was already on and he knew it. Which is fine, because like I said in a previous post, as a voice over talent I've gone to auditions just to be told they HAD to have auditions but I already had the job, so I know how it works.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 5, 2007 03:52PM)
And that was all I was commenting on and only did so becouse of Arnons posting.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Dr. Wendy Woo (Oct 5, 2007 03:58PM)
I don't know about the other contestants but having Jim Callahan and guys like Ehud (who I have seen on Montel Williams with Sylvia Brown - great stuff) on the Phenomenon show will be very interesting to watch.

These two guys know how to handle themselves interestingly.

I predict Ehud will get second place again.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 5, 2007 05:29PM)
I am very sorry that Ehuds brother was killed in battle. I stated so when it happened.
However the rest, or the majority of the email that I got this morning and the information on his site is NOT correct. I'm sure it will be removed as being grilled about it looms closer, just as the other was removed.
Alex has already pointed out that Ehud did NOT take a hiatus from his profession. In fact he placed second on one the the biggest TV shows in Isreal. Very good indeed, but to say he is resuming his career is just not quite true is it then. To say that he doesn't know if he's on the show is a blatant FIB :) (Not to be confused with a member here on the Café.)
I wouldn't call these Café post irresponsible in the least.
Yes, that site does contradict what everyone seems to be saying, so Arnon, be careful where you place your bet.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 5, 2007 07:29PM)
I was working with Ehud some heavy duty stuff for the show. Beware... :stare:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 5, 2007 07:34PM)
Heavy duty stuff is exactly what I want to see. I am "Wary" of Ehud claiming that he doesn't know if he's on the show. Wouldn't he have transportation plans by now? :)
Wish I could attend MARS!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 5, 2007 07:42PM)
[quote]
On 2007-08-10 22:00, Jim-Callahan wrote:
I find you very off Dave AkA (Fez Boy)!

Not enlightening at all.
A bit dim mayhap.

Yep that is what I will go with, dim yes th.ats it
dim.

J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 6, 2007 03:46AM)
Jim, are you saying that people will have a problem to debunk your methods, or to debunk the fact that you are actually just a mentalist like all the other people who were chosen on the show?

If it's the second option then I don't think the viewers will have much problem proving you are just a mentalist.. The first clue is that you have 2315 posts on a major MAGIC forum.. a quick search will make people find you here. And not to mention that you have the tags Mentalist, Magician, Master Magician, Magic Show, Entertainer on your own website.


You sure seem more real than all the other performers.. ;)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 6, 2007 05:33AM)
Slim King, Ehud in the US now.

Coming to MARS 2007 convention will be VERY educational for everey mentalist.
If you can some how make it, you are invited!
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 6, 2007 05:57AM)
As an outsider looking in on this, reading all this thread makes very entertaining reading..i hope Phenom is more so though, and less !@#$%y and bitter..

this thread has turned into some kind of mentalistic soap-opera...

tune in next time when...

I must admit though, going on a show and performing something straight out of the box, and not wanting to perform your own work seems a bit of a missed opportunity to me...
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 6, 2007 10:48AM)
Abraxus, wait and see what happens to this thread when Phenomenon begins ! ! !
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Oct 6, 2007 11:50AM)
I am using my psychic powers to predict that the 'winner' will be from a somewhere beyond the USA. I am getting a 'B'. Yes, now it is becoming clear. I believe someone from Belgium will come out on top.

Write this down.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 6, 2007 11:54AM)
The song C.C. Rider just popped into my head.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 6, 2007 12:04PM)
I have to see who else is on to make my call, but I like Callahan because he'll bring the most controversy into this thing and he's a likable guy to top it off. America will like him and be intrigued by him.

Someone from Israel will come second.

For season two, Roel will be on and most likely two or three other people even before the auditions begin.

The rest will compete for the five or six spots available (not unlike this first season).

Naturally this is all speculation....
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 6, 2007 01:07PM)
Anyone thought how this place might influence any voting? if someone searches for Phenom might this site's thread come up in the search?

then they'd read the thread..

then they'd make up their minds...

you might all end up indirectly suggesting something you may not wish too...
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 6, 2007 01:11PM)
Nah, the general public is not going to search under "magician" or "magic" for presumed "psychics" nor are they going to expend the energy. They will vote for who and what they like.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 6, 2007 01:52PM)
ALEXANDRE, I Live in Israel. I didn't audition for 'Phenonmenon' and I am not in the show.

Posted: Oct 6, 2007 2:54pm
Oh. I've got it: Season TWO.... ok!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 6, 2007 02:28PM)
I took four years of high school German and I've performed for the troops there. Perhaps I could qualify for the German show? :)
Lot's of beer there too!
:cheers:

Posted: Oct 6, 2007 3:41pm
Just got a call from the Preview Center at Universal Studio's ( Where people watch TV pilots etc. for NBC ) ....They are reviewing Phenomenon. I was at a BB gig this afternoon so I didn't get a chance to see it. They said it was mostly about Angel and Geller
They expect more. Perhaps they are shooting more current segments this weekend? Too bad Segev doesn't know if he's on the show yet
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 6, 2007 04:03PM)
It would be funny if after all of this, Ehud turned out not to be on the show after all :)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 6, 2007 04:31PM)
Perhaps you could take up a collection for a small wager, and I bet Roei and I would cover the amount :)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 6, 2007 05:01PM)
I double the pot!
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 6, 2007 05:16PM)
I just asked my Magic 8 Ball, he is on the show.

As for posts and messages, didn't you guys ever study theater?
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 7, 2007 02:22AM)
Man, I better start scraping my money together. My winnings will fit nicely next to the car I buy from backing the Phillies to win the World Series!
Message: Posted by: qichi (Oct 7, 2007 07:11PM)
Wow, just saw a commercial for this smack dab in the middle of nbc's sunday night football coverage. that's incredibly hi profile.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 7, 2007 07:21PM)
Wait till ya see whats comming.

j acK

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 7, 2007 09:24PM)
I have to say, the comercial, REALLY was not only high profile, but aside from Criss, really made me want to watch it!

It for the first time swings the pendulum to a good direction as far as I am concerned. If the show and the production values and the hype live up, I have a napkin around my neck to eat my words! (Which believe it or not I will gladly do!)

Good luck to all who are involved by the way!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 8, 2007 01:07AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-07 20:21, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Wait till ya see whats comming.

j acK

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

Wow - looks like Jim/J ack is not himself - he can't even spell his own name, or... is it a new incarnation or discarnate entity?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 8, 2007 07:53AM)
Arnon...It's a Forum, not a legal document...but perhaps you don't know the difference?
You go a long way to be Nit Picky :)
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 8, 2007 08:06AM)
Kill da wabbit...

:bunny:
Message: Posted by: leapinglizards (Oct 8, 2007 10:17AM)
What a lovely analogy Mister I. :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 8, 2007 03:26PM)
...someone will be using the Magic Helmet.... :)

"LEOPOLD!" (Yes, I know, another episode - but thematically I felt needed to be uttered)
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 8, 2007 04:22PM)
Jim, are the phenomenon contestants going to pick the Sunday Night Football games for NBC? That's something I could put my money behind!
Message: Posted by: edh (Oct 8, 2007 06:19PM)
I heard that callers would be encouraged to expose the methods behind the mentalism effects.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 8, 2007 06:58PM)
Where have you heard that?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 8, 2007 07:31PM)
Edh, not likely.
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 8, 2007 08:04PM)
No matter what the network and producers tell everyone, a show like this will definitely have some exposure. After all, the Israeli version had quite a bit of exposure even if you don't include the bit where Uri Gellar put the magnet on his finger.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 8, 2007 08:19PM)
Posted on Reality TV World:

"In addition to its two-hour Halloween broadcast on Wednesday, October 31, NBC will broadcast each of Phenomenon's one-hour episodes live and also implores home viewers to try and debunk the contestants' tricks.

"We hope viewers will watch with their friends and talk about and debate what they see, making this a truly interactive television experience," added Plestis."

- entity
Message: Posted by: Papa David (Oct 8, 2007 08:49PM)
NBC will not likely destroy any opportunity for additional seasons... so I strongly suspect exposure will not be a major problem at all.

All you are looking for here is someone who can tell a good story with conviction and then manage to entertain us while feigning abilities.

If Mr. Callahan is indeed a participant then toss the "feigning abilities" aside.
It has been noticed that when ultimately pressed, Mr. Callahan has indeed managed to demonstrate the unexplainable even to himself. He more than likely worries to reveal that. Tricks or truth is his likely concern.

Exposure is no worry. The art of Mentalism has evolved well beyond the techniques that many fear will be exposed. The general public has no use for the office supply store secrets. They cannot nor desire to retain those mundane details even if exposed weekly. They care not. They want only to be entertained.

As for the other true secrets? Those are always well hidden...hidden in the same box that hides the secrets to great theatre, poetry, music, film and all the other arts. Yet it is a tiny box. Must be magic to hold at all :)

Popcorn might be appropriate for watching this show and I'll pop some into your mind.
On October 24 during daylight hours you WILL remember to be certain to have popcorn on hand for when you watch the broadcast. Those of you not fond of popcorn will merely string it for Phenomenon decorations.
Done.

I'll just step back to the corner and continue to listen while popping corn.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 9, 2007 04:01AM)
The Israeli network is not having a second season even though the show was a big hit. I feel the exposure was too much and they have to let it cool down a bit. I'm not too sure NBC is aiming for another season...Besides, this is more like a mini-series.
What Jim did at the auditions was head over heels beyond anyone else! You are right about that. Unless the others step up to the plate and get rid of their store bought shenanigans, they're in trouble :)
I'll stock up on the popcorn too!
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 9, 2007 04:28AM)
I have found all too often, that those who impress fellow entertainers (Mentalists, Magicians, etc.) are not always the favorites of lay audiences. We tend to look at the performances differently.

I cant wait to see what Jim comes up with. Talk about pressure!
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 9, 2007 08:17AM)
People like to be entertained, yes, but I get asked on a daily basis "how was that done?". It is the rare few I bump into who don't care to know and just like being entertained.

In the past, every time I tried showing the performance section of my favorite Magic/Mentalism DVDs to friends, I would always hear "Just skip to the explanations". Naturally I wouldn't, removing the DVD and moving the conversation towards politics or something else.

This is just one example, but I have a friend who will happen to be here on Halloween, so I said we'd watch the two-hour special of Phenomenon, and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Great, you can tell me how they're all doing their stuff."

The exact same thing happened when another friend was over during a Derren Brown episode. Immediately wanting to know how he did something.

It's going to be up to us to NOT SAY, to throw people off, and to uphold the respect of our art, for no one else will.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 9, 2007 08:33AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 05:01, Slim King wrote:
The Israeli network is not having a second season even though the show was a big hit. I feel the exposure was too much and they have to let it cool down a bit. I'm not too sure NBC is aiming for another season...Besides, this is more like a mini-series.
What Jim did at the auditions was head over heels beyond anyone else! You are right about that. Unless the others step up to the plate and get rid of their store bought shenanigans, they're in trouble :)
I'll stock up on the popcorn too!
[/quote]

I think that Uri moved it to a different market with hopes of increased success and reclaiming world recognition.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 9, 2007 09:59AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 09:33, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
I think that Uri moved it to a different market with hopes of increased success and reclaiming world recognition.
[/quote]

Long overdue in my opinion. I have a drawer full of old watches that need fixing and nothing is more entertaining than watching a compass needle move.

Popcorn?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 9, 2007 10:50AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 05:01, Slim King wrote:
The Israeli network is not having a second season even though the show was a big hit. I feel the exposure was too much and they have to let it cool down a bit. I'm not too sure NBC is aiming for another season... [/quote]

The show got pretty bad ratings by the end of the season, and at one time didn't even make it to the top 10. I guess that's the main reason why there might not be a second season here. Sorry to interfere with facts..
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 9, 2007 12:29PM)
Just in context, each year NBC has debuted a "mini-series" event around this time. Two years ago it was Deal or No Deal and last year it was Identity. Both got picked up as a series, although obviously Deal or No Deal became.. for lack of a better word... a phenomenon.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 9, 2007 01:12PM)
DJM, the show never got less that 20% ratings.
The reason that "there never be a second season" is that the successor has been found and there is no point in looking for a second one!

Posted: Oct 9, 2007 2:14pm
The average ratings at the final show were 27%, btw...
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 9, 2007 01:30PM)
I remember that the ratings got a bit lower as time went on..

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/4/ART1/533/394.html

Still pretty good, but sadly not like Rising Star or some of the other big reality shows we got here that are always on top.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 9, 2007 01:34PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 14:12, Roei wrote:
...
The reason that "there never be a second season" is that the successor has been found and there is no point in looking for a second one!
[/quote]

That makes perfect sense.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 9, 2007 03:05PM)
WEll tp sustain a rating for a magic series like this is tough if you ask me.

Asking the audience to figure things out REALLY makes it tough.
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 9, 2007 03:20PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 14:12, Roei wrote:
DJM, the show never got less that 20% ratings.
The reason that "there never be a second season" is that the successor has been found and there is no point in looking for a second one!
[/quote]

If this line of thinking were true, we wouldn't be suffering through season after season of American Idol.

Decisions such as whether or not to pick up or order another season of a series are generally based on two factors. Number one would be financial reasons and number two would be branding.

Even if a show rates well, it still may not make financial sense to make more episodes. If the profit margin of the ad sales minus the shows budget for production and marketing is not as high as a lower rating, lower budgeted show a network is not going to pick it up. This is very common.

In addition to just the bottom line, it is not unrare for branding to take on substancial consideration for pick-up. Consider the series "PIMP MY RIDE" on MTV. That show has not rated well in many seasons, yet the network keeps ordering more episodes. Why? Because it resonates well within their brand and audience as an original, urban, young, funky, network. In their mind it helps people remember why they like MTV - which, to a president of an network can be invaluable.

Anyway, my 2p. I need to get out of this business.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 9, 2007 05:40PM)
There WILL be a second season of Phenomenon.
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 9, 2007 06:35PM)
NBC certainly hopes so. Heroes has been awful this season, Deal or No Deal doesn't draw like it used to and Bionic Woman got beat last week after a huge debut. They need a hit.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 9, 2007 06:57PM)
Chuck is my favorite along with LIFE :)
Message: Posted by: Dr. Wendy Woo (Oct 9, 2007 07:03PM)
I will audition for season two with System 44.
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 9, 2007 07:22PM)
I dig Reaper on the CW
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 10, 2007 01:22AM)
ALEXANDRE, There will NOT be a second season of Phenomenon IN ISRAEL.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 10, 2007 02:29AM)
Roei:

Even though Hebrew is my second language, I am fluent in it. Is it not true that the Israeli show was called "Ha'Yoresh" which means "The Successor" or more literally, "The Inheritor"?

We lawyers would call it "The Legatee."

And in fact, wasn't that the tone of the program in Israel - that Uri Geller was going to "have" someone to give his legacy to by means of the "search"?

And when Lior Suchard won, didn't Geller practically throw his arms around Suchard as if he had a new-found adopted son?

And didn't Geller also make the comment to Suchard on TV that Geller wanted him to come to his home and he would explain a few secrets to him?

So I would not call the Israeli show "The Phenomenon" if you want to be accurate.

Only the show which NBC will broadcast [i]is[/i] called "The Phenomenon."*

The reasons for the name change are many, but certainly one reason is that the name "The Successor" no longer fits, now that Criss Angel is taking part in the American show as a co-host. That name would focus attention on Geller over Angel.

I think you, and also Ehud Segev, are trying to blur the distinction in the names of the shows, in order to cash in on the publicity for the NBC show, being that you both were contestants, albeit not winners, on the predecessor show.

Please forgive my blunt honesty, and correct me if I am wrong.

Arnon

*On Geller's site, he characterizes NBC's "Phenomenon" as in search of his successor - "NBC also looking for a successor to Uri Geller" - I wonder how Criss Angel feels about that?! Contrary to Geller's interpretation, NBC's promo characterizes the show as "the search for the impossible."

Also see, on NBC's Universal Media Village website, at http://www.nbcumv.com/entertainment/release_detail.nbc/entertainment-20070716000000-nbcannouncesdealw.html

"NBC ANNOUNCES DEAL WITH WORLD-RENOWNED MYSTIFIER CRISS ANGEL AND FAMED MENTALIST URI GELLER FOR 'PHENOMENON,' CONTROVERSIAL NEW LIVE COMPETITION SERIES THAT WILL LEAD SEARCH FOR THE NEXT GREAT MENTALIST
Published: July 16, 2007"
"-- a mysterious live competition series in which both men will conduct an intensive search for the next great mentalist."
".…the contestants attempt to follow in Criss and Uri's footsteps...."

Even Geller himself states on his website (click on the Criss Angel, Boris Becker, Mel C article by Geller) that, "The involvement of Criss Angel will be immensely important. His Mindfreak series is the most popular mystifying show on American TV, making him the modern successor to his childhood hero, Harry Houdini.

Criss’s triumphs include levitating above the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas, walking on water and floating between two buildings. To say he has a taste for the spectacular is like saying Madonna has had a couple of hit records.

We’ll be presenting our ten contestants on live TV for ten successive weeks, building up to a climactic showdown between the most popular acts, just before Christmas. Criss and I will be the ringmasters, but the viewers at home will wield the real power, voting to keep their favourites on the show.

It’s going to be a whirlwind few years, because as soon as the US series ends, I’ll be flying to Germany to repeat the performance. The German series was also announced to the media this month, with a special presentation called the Big Show for TV’s top advertisers."
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 10, 2007 09:21AM)
How can Criss be a succesor when he is a magician entertainer versus a psychic? :)

Besides, why does he need to be a succesor when he already is a success? No matter what is said about the fellow - he is succesful and has promoted magic and G*d bless him. He should stay as unique as he can and let Uri be Uri.... IMHO
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 10, 2007 10:37AM)
Arnon: Great post.
I didn't understand what was it's purpose though...
I always mentioned the Israeli show as 'The Successor' and the America version as 'Penomenon'.

Ehud Segev got second place in Israel. Now he is for sure in 'Phenomenon'.

The show format (made by Kuperman production and Keshet TV) was also sold to Germany. I bet it will be sold to the UK and other countries as well.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 10, 2007 03:42PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-10 11:37, Roei wrote:
Arnon: Great post.
I didn't understand what was it's purpose though...
I always mentioned the Israeli show as 'The Successor' and the America version as 'Penomenon'.
***
[/quote]

Then Roei, what do you make of [i]this[/i] post of yours?:

[quote]
On 2007-10-10 02:22, Roei wrote:
ALEXANDRE, There will NOT be a second season of Phenomenon IN ISRAEL.
[/quote]

My purpose was clarification.
:D
Arnon
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 10, 2007 04:14PM)
Criss Angel is often cited as bringing magic back into the mainstream pop culture with his successful A&E series Mindfreak. On October 24, Angel will team with fellow mentalist Uri Geller on NBC's Phenomenon to assess the skills of 10 performers, some mentalists and some claiming genuine psychic abilities, who have their hopes pointed at securing a piece of Angel's real estate on the pop culture landscape. Audiences will votes to advance performers, but not before Angel and Geller have a chance to assess the would-be Houdinis. Angel held a press conference today to share his feelings on participating in the show, and to give a preview of how he would be judging the contestants.

Angel displayed a seriously skeptical side from the beginning, having no trouble admitting that everything he does is an illusion, and that he claims absolutely no psychic or truly magical ability. Those who do, though, better watch out. Angel doesn't take kindly to the likes of ‘performers' like John Edwards, who use their feats of mentalism to bilk huge appearance fees and take advantage of the grief of their audiences. “In my opinion, all of that stuff is a bunch of garbage.” Angel exclaimed.

Contestants coming to Phenomenon who claim to have real psychic abilities will find a tough critic in Angel. “I'm sure we are going to have people that claim they have supernatural power, and that's going to be fun to expose them live, and on television.” Angel told reporters on a conference call, which BuddyTV participated in.

The structure of the show will involve contestants demonstrating their abilities then, a la American Idol, Angel and Geller will give their impression of the performance. Audience members then get a chance to vote for who they would like to see come back.

Of course Criss could not escape the halo of his recent association with Britney Spears. Spears' doomed performance at the VMA was originally to include an illusion by Angel, but it didn't come to pass. “I spent a lot of time with Britney, to develop what that was going to be, and then realized that her commitment to doing that stuff was not at the level that it needed to be, and she wanted to go in another direction.”

Phenomenon premieres October 24, and runs for five weeks.


Jim, you better watch out. :D
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 10, 2007 04:23PM)
Jim is ready.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 10, 2007 04:41PM)
The avenging Angel of Karma might run over the "I am the real deal" Dogma.
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 10, 2007 04:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-09 20:22, JohnEBlaze wrote:
I dig Reaper on the CW
[/quote]Reaper is awesome as well, was watching it last night. I'm keeping up with all the episodes
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Oct 10, 2007 06:49PM)
I heard Morgan Strebler is going to be on the show?
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 10, 2007 08:54PM)
Here's an article about the 10 contestants with a heart-warming little bio about each one:

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=38245

B
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 10, 2007 09:26PM)
WOW!!!!
Very Cool! :)
Thanks BOB
:cheers:
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 10, 2007 11:33PM)
Jan Bardi - "I am not French... I am from Belgium!" - which he should state to keep the American audiences on his side :)... sounds cool... the Pyramid of Giza! I already like this fellow and I haven't even seen him perform!

Guy Bavli - A true creator of mentalism gadgets and methods... didn't expect this... watch out for the clipboards!!! This show is going to be great - watching him in action besides DVDs!


Jim Callahan - The Paranormalist - the closest thing to the bizarrist dark horse... although he has at least three to one odds (bringing along J ack and Raymond make 3)... it is really cool to see your name officially up there, Jim! Give them Hel... I mean... give them some extradimensional plane experiences!!!



Angela Funovits - The lone female... but as mentioned earlier... she has a combination of things that will likely get the audience on side... plus she uses magic to help the ill... so, again - an excellent choice and someone if the others think is just a youngin will likely end up getting fried by!



Wayne Hoffman - wow - charmed the pant(?) off the Girls Next Door... I got a feeling this fellow can blend in comedy and charm into mentalism... yet another interesting person!


Jim Karol - Wow! The Jackass mystic... I mean that in the good way - as the JackAss movies were wild! One can only hazard to guess what insane mental / physical stunts might be performed... really, the choosers of the contenders did well - everyone is quite unique....


Gerry McCambridge - 6 Children???! He HAS to be a master mystifier... wow, another Big Gun... I'm actually surprised he is in this since he really already has enough mental cred to be considered a successful mentalist... but also, perhaps he represents the classic type... needed to round out the 10 archetypes..



Eran Raven - Ah... a psychic-type! This fellow sounds very interesting indeed! A Predictions master? (Well, that is what I predict) - will he predict who will win???


Jason Scott - Another Playboy illumnus... but with martial arts training! I wonder if that will be a presentation angle... kudos on Childrens Hospital activities... that makes me root for him too...!


Ehud Segev - Hmmm... a lot has been posted by others - but I say - if he can be an entertaining mentalist with a special "must win this time at all costs!" it will be very interesting!!!


-------- in short, whoever wins, it will be good.--------------
-------- also, glad everyone will get TV exposure--------------

I am now very excited to watch!!!!

Disclaimer: for those who didn't get in but applied - my comments are just stating that the lineup here is quite cool - not that any one is superior to any one else... but that it is nice how the 10 are pretty different in their idioms...

Tim Vincent????? Egad.
Message: Posted by: DerekMerdinyan (Oct 11, 2007 01:19AM)
This article also has the list plus some YouTube footage for all the contestants - for those looking for taste of what is to come.

http://itricks.com/news/?p=2255

Derek Merdinyan
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 11, 2007 03:13AM)
Bob Baker & DerekMerdinyan, Thank you for the links.
So, as I mentioned, some Israelis are on the show. I was sure that Yigal Mesika will be in as well. I was right about three.
Well, it's better to not be fully right while giving predictions, correct?
:)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 07:04AM)
Only two are listed as Israeli. Is the third one Raven?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 11, 2007 07:11AM)
Yes, Eran Raven (Fingelbaum)

Posted: Oct 11, 2007 8:12am
He moved to the US many years ago. He is a cool person. I am sure he will rock!
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 11, 2007 07:27AM)
Go get'em Jim! I didn't know you were from Pitt. Steelers fan?
I will go out on a limb and start to give my predictions for winners.
Finishing in order from first to last:

1.Jim Callahan
2.Jan Bardi
3.Wayne Hoffman
4.Angela Funovitz
5.Jason Scott
6.Ehud Segev
7.Gerry McCambridge
8.Eran Raven
9.Guy Bavli
10.Jim Karol

that's my list.

Chad
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 11, 2007 08:11AM)
I'm still not sure how magician and model Angela Funovitz fits into this show. She performs Jeff McBride type magic.

I'll soon find out.


No way Jim Karol will leave before Gerry.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 08:12AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 09:11, ALEXANDRE wrote:


No way Jim Karol will leave before Gerry.
[/quote]

No way Guy will last that long either.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 11, 2007 08:15AM)
Alexandre, think like a TV producer (or pretend :)) and you'll know she is a really good choice for the TV viewing audience... plus the fact she is more magician makes her different from the rest... i.e. she will also be able to be seen as a sell proclaimed non-psychic performer who may be able to duplicate feats of psychic phenomena without having to give the method...!

Oh, I still think she will be in the final three if not the final two.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 08:25AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 09:11, ALEXANDRE wrote:
I'm still not sure how magician and model Angela Funovitz fits into this show. She performs Jeff McBride type magic.

I'll soon find out.


No way Jim Karol will leave before Gerry.
[/quote]

My daughter loves Jim Karol! My little girl who grew up around magic, mentalism, psychic phenomena, and has seen it all and bored by it all She saw the Psychic Madman at college and loved the experience. Jim has that affect on people.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 11, 2007 08:27AM)
I see what you're saying and I agree, but no way she'll go that far. As an example, I know she won't be able to duplicate what Callahan will be doing.

Girls like my daughter would vote for her, the problem is my daughter (and her friends) could care less about phenomenon. So far I have not seen NBC do anything to attract that crowd.

What I think you'll have is a bunch of boys voting for who they'd one day like to be, and grownups who will find Jim Callahan a friendly, yet, eerie guy who they just can't quite decide whether he's the devil or not.

I predict Jim C. will put the fear of God into Matt Lauer's eyes by the end of this year.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 11, 2007 08:38AM)
Here is my prediction. Let me put it in an envelope....Here, there it is hanging from a string...

1.Ehud Segev
2.Jim Callahan
3.Gerry McCambridge
4.Guy Bavli
5.Eran Raven
6.Jason Scott
7.Jim Karol
8.Angela Funovitz
9.Wayne Hoffman
10.Jan Bardi
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 11, 2007 08:45AM)
I can see Ehud winning this as well. I like the guy. He's very good, but again, there's no way Gerry will get that far.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 08:50AM)
I have my ideas as to what will happen, but I don't want to post them for fear of the self fullfilling thing to catch hold. I foresee something no one has anticipated...Something BIG!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 11, 2007 09:08AM)
Slim King, do you sense a disturbance in the force?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 09:09AM)
Do you think our friend Ray is going to win?
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Oct 11, 2007 09:17AM)
[quote]Gerry McCambridge - 6 Children???![/quote]

Actually I've met several mentalists with larger than average families. Not sure what the connection is...

I was suprised to see the number of contestants from PA. Between PA and Israel you have 1/2 the playing field.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 09:21AM)
This thing should have more pressure than on OCEAN FLOOR SCUBA TRIP :)
Something will give eventually....Then watch out!
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 11, 2007 10:45AM)
Segev will get first place, no doubt about it. :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 10:48AM)
Yup, there are going to be some surprised people here. ;)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 11, 2007 10:57AM)
I'm with Tony - you are forgetting who is voting for the contestants...

I still say, even if she doesn't place first on the show - the biggest winner will be AF. Glad I knew her before she will become a megastar.....!
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 11, 2007 10:58AM)
Ehud is a great guy.
(As are all of the other performers)

It has been a pleasure to meet both him and his very charming girlfriend.

-Jim
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 11, 2007 11:01AM)
Well I have my knive and fork and a napkin around my neck, I hope I get a chance to eat my words.

Either way good fortune Jim.
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Oct 11, 2007 11:16AM)
Jim is a legend and has Irish blood...he will win..one way or the other he will win...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 11:34AM)
Jim Callahan and Jim Karol are VERY STRONG. Angela is a beauty and immeadiately likable. These will do well with the public.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 11:38AM)
It depends on who does the real voting. If the hosts do the voting until the final X, then the audience votes, it could be real bad. If the audience votes for all the rounds and it is a true accounting of the calls, it could be real interesting.

No, the voting has not really been addressed. What has been said is that the viewers will determine the winner, but that does not happen until the end of the series.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 11:48AM)
If the audience votes through all the rounds, I'm afriad that pure talent will play a minor role in determining the winner. At the end of the day, these are primarily popularity contests (ie; Taylor Hicks). If the hosts do the voting till the final round, (love 'em or hate 'em), you'd have to think that Angel and Geller will recognize a true original and will reward said individual.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 11:50AM)
Perhaps the opposite is true as far as Geller and Angel are concerned :)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 11, 2007 11:56AM)
If it's live then NBC will probably ask the viewers to vote.. will get them more money. :)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 12:01PM)
How does the voting work over a four hour time span from Eastern to West Coast time? I'm really not familiar as to how the other TV shows do it.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 12:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 12:50, Slim King wrote:
Perhaps the opposite is true as far as Geller and Angel are concerned :)
[/quote]

You'd have to hope that's not the case. The key word being "hope". While the public at large is clueless as to what consitutes "original mentalism", Geller and Angel (although he may not practice it himself), will be the only people there who can RECOGNIZE it. There are certainly many factors that could argue for why that won't matter (network pressure, etc.) Simon Cowell did not want Talor Hicks to win "American Idol"; Hicks did anyway, as America found him the most endearing.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 12:08PM)
The open the lines for a certain time period, the results are announced the next show.

Gabe

I'd rather see the audience vote for who they think is most entertaining than Geller and Angel taking turns...
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 11, 2007 12:15PM)
In my opinion, after watching Angela's material, there is no way she Will be among the first three competitors. She is cute and beautiful, but...

Posted: Oct 11, 2007 1:19pm
Jason Scott is cool. I liked the effect that he swallowed thread and got it our through his neck. Is it his idea?
Message: Posted by: Rudy Sanchez (Oct 11, 2007 12:27PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 13:19, Roei wrote:
Jason Scott is cool. I liked the effect that he swallowed thread and got it our through his neck. Is it his idea?
[/quote]
Sean Fields "SAW"

Rudy
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 12:28PM)
At the auditions I saw many people doing Pre-Show work, book tests and magic squares. These will be quickly recognized by thousands of viewers and reported on the internet chat sites. Nothing Phenominal about a store bought routine and I'm sure many will point this out right away. Will Uri and Criss expose this stuff too? Or will they just let the others do it?
Will they seem WEAK or ignorant by NOT exposing it.?How will they react to each other? Will Criss try to debunk Uri?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 11, 2007 12:38PM)
Some of the effects in the Israeli show were store bought and Geller couldn't care less.

Not to mention that the audience seemed to enjoy the performances either way.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 12:41PM)
Do you think Criss Angel will appear to allow the wool to be pulled over his eyes?
Please refresh yourselves to the claims of the show
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6889118762452297342&q=phenomenon+TV+show+Angel&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 11, 2007 12:47PM)
I remember Segev did the magic square on the show here and it totaly amazed the audience. Not sure what the problem is.. it's all done for fun.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 12:54PM)
The people tuning in to the show are expecting
A SEARCH FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE
THOSE WITH SPECIAL POWERS
TEST THEM ALL.....
Didn't hear the word FUN once!
They are looking for the Greatest of those that claim special powers.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 12:57PM)
I see the biggest danger being someone (whether by Internet vote, or the judges themselves) exposing an integral tool of the trade, like a n**l writer. When Geller bent spoons in the 70's, no one had seen anything like it, so people were floored. Now, everyone has either seen a magician bend a spoon, or knows of Geller's feats. But a n**l writer, for example, is by and large UNKNOWN to mainstream America, and is an indispensible tool for many mentalists. Routines are only limited by the imagination. But when the tool itself is revealed, no matter how original the routine, the audience will say, "the only way he could have done that is with a n**l writer." That's not good.
Message: Posted by: burst (Oct 11, 2007 12:58PM)
Shoot, I just realized this show is on at Wednesday. I hope it's not on the same time slot as Pushing Daises. It's one of the three shows that I tune in for. If so, luckily ABC posts episodes online. No matter what, I win. I would just happen to win more if the shows don't interfere with one another.

Hooray!
/paul.f
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 12:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 13:15, Roei wrote:
In my opinion, after watching Angela's material, there is no way she Will be among the first three competitors. She is cute and beautiful, but...
[/quote]

You may say "there is no way she will be", but there are several reasons why she probably will be. And that is neither an endorsement or a condemnation.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 11, 2007 01:03PM)
This will come down to a popularity contest. As well it should. The best personalities are the most entertaining people, and that is what we are all striving for right? That is partially how my list is based. Some skill and some personality. Angela will last longer, as she looks nice, does good work and is personable. But I feel she is a bit out of her element in mentalism. She doesn't have a 'mentalsist' feel. Callahan, is just the opposite. He is the rare mix of looks, talent and personality. I don't know as much about some of the other contestants, so I had to go on instinct with what I read about them.
Some of the contestants seem to have great effects, but not enough personality.
It will be interesting to see how people vote though.
Magicians will vote for who fools them, not necessarilly who entertains them. Lay people will do just the opposite. So you could have some people who go farther that don't have the chops but do have some endearing qualities.

Chad
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 01:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 14:03, Chad Sanborn wrote:
This will come down to a popularity contest. As well it should. The best personalities are the most entertaining people, and that is what we are all striving for right? That is partially how my list is based. Some skill and some personality. Angela will last longer, as she looks nice, does good work and is personable. But I feel she is a bit out of her element in mentalism. She doesn't have a 'mentalsist' feel. Callahan, is just the opposite. He is the rare mix of looks, talent and personality. I don't know as much about some of the other contestants, so I had to go on instinct with what I read about them.
Some of the contestants seem to have great effects, but not enough personality.
It will be interesting to see how people vote though.
Magicians will vote for who fools them, not necessarilly who entertains them. Lay people will do just the opposite. So you could have some people who go farther that don't have the chops but do have some endearing qualities.

Chad
[/quote]

Well said, and I believe, on the money.
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 11, 2007 01:25PM)
I couldn't agree more about the popularity contest... it is TV after all. Anyone who doesn't think that Funovits will be the one to beat doesn't understand how reality television works.

My final three: Segev, Funovits and Karol

Posted: Oct 11, 2007 2:33pm
Right now, Deal or No Deal is winning what will be Phenomenon's time slot with a 8.0 rating. Pushing Daises is second with a 6.6 and Kid Nation has a 4.0

That probably means that NBC will be happy if it doesn't fall below second place, since hits for them have been hard to come by.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 11, 2007 01:35PM)
Too bad the judges aren't Annemann and Corinda.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 11, 2007 01:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 13:54, Slim King wrote:
The people tuning in to the show are expecting
A SEARCH FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE
THOSE WITH SPECIAL POWERS
TEST THEM ALL.....
Didn't hear the word FUN once!
They are looking for the Greatest of those that claim special powers.
[/quote]

How do you think they promoted the show over here, as magic for kids? It was exactly the same kind of thing.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be fun involved.. some poeple take it way too seriously.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 01:37PM)
DJM, their using footage from the Israel show in the commercials here.
Probably the only difference here is the floating ladies and Criss Angel's name and face.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 02:12PM)
Just got off of the phone with NBC. The new site is up with the boards.
http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon/index.shtml
I'd never seen it before so I'm not sure of the changes.
Several important questions were answered but many new ones surfaced.
This will be fun!
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 02:28PM)
I like all the little Angelite comments there already. It will be fun to see how they change when the show starts.
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 11, 2007 02:31PM)
I just read the last few pages of this thread and it got me wondering about the material of the people that I love such as Cassidy and Osterlind.

As I am not familiar with what each contestant is going to bring to the table (in terms of specific effects), if one was to perform, say, Cassidy's Name/Place routine, or Osterlind's Watch routine, would that performer need permission from the creator to do so? I would hope the answer is "yes", for although these routines are published, the public at large is unaware, and these are staples of the author's respective acts.

Does anyone know the answer to this one?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 11, 2007 02:35PM)
The answer would be, if they bought say Osterlind's instruction DVD, where he teaches the watch routine, no permission would be needed to perform this. No rights were withheld or performance stipulations made, purchasing the DVD would give the performance rights to the purchaser. It can be argues that it may not be the most "creative" thing to do, but there is nothing wrong with it.

Let's try to keep specifics out of the thread, just in case...
We don't want to be an information source for those looking to replicate what they see on TV.
Message: Posted by: burst (Oct 11, 2007 02:37PM)
It depends on the creator of said effects. Some creators add to their work that if it is to be used on TV that permission is needed, others publish without that. I don't really understand the mentality of publishing something for others to use and then setting restrictions upon that use. If you don't want it to be used, don't publish it.

/paul.f
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 03:06PM)
There were guys at the auditions seemingly competing againts their own ideas.( Stebler for one) My first audition effect was The Blessing. I had sold a couple of copies prior to the auditions (I quit as soon as I found out that I was in) so the potential was there that I would be performing my routine AFTER someone else had....I've learned a great lesson about selling secrets :)
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 11, 2007 03:14PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 15:37, burst wrote:
I don't really understand the mentality of publishing something for others to use and then setting restrictions upon that use. If you don't want it to be used, don't publish it.

/paul.f
[/quote]

I understand your thoughts here and in some ways I feel the same way. Except when you consider the fact that performing one of someones original effects on nation television greatly reduces it value as an original effect for that performer. In some ways its kind of like a stand up comedian with an HBO special. After that, he can never use those jokes again.

However, if the said performer allowed others to perform it every else but on television, he can continue using it as an original effect from here to eternity without his clients walking up and saying "oh yeah, that's cool I've seen that before. that's the same thing that girl did on that show with uri gellar".
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 11, 2007 03:19PM)
On the other hand Criss Angel sold a WHOLE BUNCH of effects AFTER he performed them on national TV. So thearetically you could make a lot more money WITH the exposure....Maybe?
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 11, 2007 03:51PM)
True. That is a valid point and something that definitely illustrates one key difference between a magician and a comedian. I guess ultimately there are a few positives and negatives on both sides.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Oct 11, 2007 06:26PM)
If you're a talented performer, you can use someone else's effect, and infuse so much of your own style and personality into it, that it becomes unrecognizable from the original inspiration.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 11, 2007 06:30PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 19:26, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
If you're a talented performer, you can use someone else's effect, and infuse so much of your own style and personality into it, that it becomes unrecognizable from the original inspiration.
[/quote]

As you did with the MPD in your unique rendition called "The Immortal" on Youtube.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 11, 2007 06:32PM)
So many pages, so much pointless vitriol...
Message: Posted by: Corona Smith (Oct 11, 2007 06:51PM)
I hope they use mah na mah na (muppet version) as the theme tune....

'phenomenon doo doo de doo doo'

Corona
Message: Posted by: Papa David (Oct 11, 2007 06:55PM)
Did not Limp Bizkit already do a theme song for this?

chorus:
... .don't think you know
What the hell I'm all about
(phenomenon, something like a phenomenon)
... .don't think you got
My **** all figured out
(phenomenon, something like a phenomenon)
Message: Posted by: Corona Smith (Oct 11, 2007 06:57PM)
Lacks the gravitas of the muppets...
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 11, 2007 07:04PM)
Actually, the Goblins did a great soundtrack for a Dario Argento work called Phenomena....
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 11, 2007 07:09PM)
Corona: 5 points for using the word Gravitas on this forum!

- entity
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 11, 2007 07:34PM)
Additional 3 points for using the word Gravitas in a sentence with the term muppets.
Message: Posted by: Corona Smith (Oct 11, 2007 07:36PM)
I'd like to award half my points to Dr. S for teaching us the plural of phenomenons.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 11, 2007 07:42PM)
"Goblin", who did the soundtrack, is actually singular rather than "The Goblins".

Plural points all around for eerie Italian prog rock!

And "Gravitas" is the plural of "Gravity"? ;)
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 11, 2007 09:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-11 19:55, Papa David wrote:
Did not Limp Bizkit already do a theme song for this?

chorus:
... .don't think you know
What the hell I'm all about
(phenomenon, something like a phenomenon)
... .don't think you got
My **** all figured out
(phenomenon, something like a phenomenon)
[/quote]

"Something like a phenomenon" is a classic old-school hip hop lyric. I believe it was originally put onto wax with Grandmaster Flashes record 'White Lines', was actually spit by Grandmaster Melle Mel and the Furious Five, and sampled from the band Liquid Liquid. A lot of hip hop heads have used it like LL Cool J, but other bands, even the Yeah Yeah Yeah's, have used it.

Limp Bizkit has never been original.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 11, 2007 11:26PM)
Hmmm... the band is Goblin... but aren't the band members Goblins?
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 11, 2007 11:57PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-12 00:26, Dr Spektor wrote:
Hmmm... the band is Goblin... but aren't the band members Goblins?
[/quote]
!!!
:ohyes:
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 12, 2007 10:02AM)
Slim, does this mean you wont be making anymore dvd's? I was looking forward to some more of your devious thinking!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 12, 2007 10:26AM)
I have promised to release the Naked on a Beach series . It has been delayed due to Phenomenon, but financial pressure may prompt me to begin the marketing process again. Seveal trips to the West Coast with another one planned and the day after I returned from the last one my car broke...BAD! (Plus past mistakes too numerous to mention) :)
I am thinking of releasing some of my NBC audition routines. They worked pretty well :) Got me on standby and a little more maybe :)
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 12:15PM)
Count me in as a supporter of your phenomenal work.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 12, 2007 01:49PM)
Absolutley count me in Slim, if you decide to release anything I will most happily hit the send button on my paypal account. I like your way of thinking.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 08:37PM)
Anyone else having a problem signing in to the Phenomenon forum on NBC?

Somehow it won't take my email, so I can't register.

Is it a MAC thing?
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 12, 2007 09:08PM)
Alexandré:

What's the URL address where you are trying to register?

Arnon
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 09:10PM)
http://my.nbc.com/accounts/register?redirectUrl=http://boards.nbc.com/nbc


I can fill everything out except where it says "email", the very first thing on there.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 12, 2007 09:19PM)
I tried registering about 10 times over the past month using 3 different browsers and two different email services, it accepts everything then records an error when it is processing.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 09:23PM)
See ... just in case there's ridiculous exposure, I think some of us should be on there to throw people off.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 12, 2007 10:08PM)
Alexandré:

You need to start by filling in your email address on this page:

http://my.nbc.com/accounts/registeremail/

Proceed from there, and PM me or post if you have a problem.

Good luck!

Arnon
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 10:24PM)
Done deal, Arnon, thanks for that.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 12, 2007 10:25PM)
My pleasure - but please note, your mailbox was/is full so I wasn't able to PM you.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 12, 2007 11:13PM)
Took care of it, thanks again.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 14, 2007 04:20AM)
Any one got some news?
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 14, 2007 09:00AM)
I spoke to one of the contestants. He told me that the cast is getting along really well, and that each of them has a different take on mentalism. Apparently, a good variety is what the producers were looking for. The performers are apparently unified in their belief that the show is not about winning the money, but promoting mentalism.

The producers are being very respectful of the performers, and Banachek has served as an excellent go-between. Exposure will not be an issue. Banachek and the performers are being absolutely adamant about that.

They just saw the set for the show on Friday, and my contact reports that it is "beautiful." They've been filming personal stories about the contestants to include in the show.

All in all, my contact is very optomistic and excited about the show, as apparently are all the performers. He's personally invested, of course, but he thinks it will be good for mentalism. If nothing else, he says, more of the American public will know what a mentalist is.

Bob

P.S. He said Jim Callahan is a "very nice guy."
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 14, 2007 09:14AM)
I think some of the exposure might happen on the NBC forum. I'm already there and this guy has already bashed Uri, so naturally when the show starts people will be talking about methods and since it's not a "magic" board, I'm not sure they'll bother removing those sort of things.

I'll be throwing some people off. Give me a hand when the show starts.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 14, 2007 09:18AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-12 11:26, Slim King wrote:
I have promised to release the Naked on a Beach series . It has been delayed due to Phenomenon, but financial pressure may prompt me to begin the marketing process again. Seveal trips to the West Coast with another one planned and the day after I returned from the last one my car broke...BAD! (Plus past mistakes too numerous to mention) :)
I am thinking of releasing some of my NBC audition routines. They worked pretty well :) Got me on standby and a little more maybe :)
[/quote]

Slim King, please don't forget about me.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 14, 2007 09:26AM)
From what I hear Bob is right on. There seems to be a comradery developing between the contestants that overshadows the WINNING aspect of the show.
I have a set of VooDoo Dolls representing the contestants in my library. Of course I'm putting all of the Blessings on Jim Callahan. Hope nothing bad happens to the other guys or I'll get blamed :)
Good luck to all, but a PARANORMAL one for J ack Galloway :)
:cheers:
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 14, 2007 01:18PM)
Hey Cats & Kittens looks like they have some of the contestants intervuiw clips up.

Here is a link http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon/video/index.shtml#mea=165989

Best Wishes,

Jim
Message: Posted by: Richie Dagger (Oct 14, 2007 01:26PM)
Very nice.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 14, 2007 01:43PM)
Notice AF is the face on the link for the vid :)
Message: Posted by: Virungan (Oct 14, 2007 01:46PM)
I think they just put her there for the Fun Of It...

Couldn't resist
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Oct 14, 2007 01:54PM)
The interview clips look good....can't wait to see more :)
Message: Posted by: burst (Oct 14, 2007 02:07PM)
Check out the "Behind the Scenes" clip and listen to what Criss says.
I wonder how him and Jim will get along.

There's other things I could say, but I'll just leave it open for now.
Luckily, the possibility of exposure has been extinguished.
On the show, I mean.

/paul.f
Message: Posted by: Celloboy (Oct 14, 2007 02:41PM)
I'm in the uk but I'd love to see this show. any idea if there will be a chance to watch it online?
Pete
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Oct 14, 2007 02:52PM)
I hope there will be Pete.....
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 14, 2007 03:53PM)
Fantastic Fun!

This is feeling more like a exhibition, not a competition...so please no wagering.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 14, 2007 09:38PM)
WOW...Criss says "No Way!" and Uri talks about seeing riveting and mesmerizing performances. :)
I like what the Piddingtons said..."You be the judge."
Jim Callahan is facing the challenge in a Paranormal way.
Jim Karol gives a great definition of his reality of Mentalism.
Should be good!
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 15, 2007 12:57AM)
I'm already a great Callahan fan.
My daughter is a Funovitz fan.
This will be TV for me.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 15, 2007 07:36AM)
I can't wait.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 15, 2007 11:50AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-14 15:07, burst wrote:
Check out the "Behind the Scenes" clip and listen to what Criss says.
I wonder how him and Jim will get along.

/paul.f
[/quote]

Yes and you are not the only one.

-Jim

PS. All the Dead Boys send their best wishes.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 12:35PM)
Jim, you just need to show him proof that you have paranormal powers, and then he would not cause you any problems.. Simple as that. ;)
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 15, 2007 12:48PM)
Criss has been saying that stuff since they announced the show, it looks like he is gearing up to be the "Simon" of the show.

Has that affected how you plan to do your act Jim?
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 15, 2007 01:42PM)
I've already started having fun on the Phenomenon forum ... things are heating up, join me!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 15, 2007 05:02PM)
I look forward to the wording and framing of Jim's presentations - that is where it all comes down to... and JJ jas been very good with his claims... (sorry Arnon!... he really has never claimed never supernatural powers!!)... so, this should be interesting.

Criss as Simon? Hmmm... they should just get in some English type who is rude... Criss is too nice a guy to hurl scathing criticisms... I think...
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 05:17PM)
Dr. Spektor, if Jim never claimed supernatural powers, then why has he asked from James Randi to try his 1 million dollar challenge? In fact, why is the challenge mentioned on the main page of Jim's website? After all, the whole purpose of the challenge is looking for people who claim to have supernatural abbilities.

And I have a feeling Jim is very well aware of that.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 15, 2007 05:29PM)
Paranormal Powers :)
We all have them don't we?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 05:30PM)
Criss doesn't seem to think so.. ;)
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 15, 2007 05:31PM)
Jim's a smart boy. Smarter, I suspect than Angel. I just have the feeling that Jim will be ready for anything Criss tries.

"Bullet-proof" is the term, I think.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 15, 2007 06:10PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 18:29, Slim King wrote:
Paranormal Powers :)
We all have them don't we?
[/quote]
Your kidding right? Heck speking for myself I have to spend all my time with NORMAL stuff LOL.

Paranormal is well beyond me.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 15, 2007 06:17PM)
Danny...Ever have De'Ja Vu ?
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Oct 15, 2007 06:19PM)
[quote]After all, the whole purpose of the challenge is looking for people who claim to have supernatural abbilities. [/quote]

Wow. I always thought the purpose of the "challenge" was to generate publicity. At least that is how I've always seen it used. And in that context it seems a perfect fit on Jim's site.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 06:27PM)
[quote]

Wow. I always thought the purpose of the "challenge" was to generate publicity. At least that is how I've always seen it used. [/quote]

Don't feel bad about it, everyone is mistaken sometimes.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 15, 2007 06:32PM)
You'd know :)
:cheers: :band: :Party:
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 15, 2007 06:34PM)
And the argument goes round and round. I can't believe anybody is not tired of it.

It's like the teacher from charlie brown, no matter what everybody says, all I hear is:

blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah

Here is the translation, with some stuff added by me to spice it up...
"everybody experiences the paranormal"
"then isn't that just the normal"
"everybody is mistaken sometimes"
"publicity...challenge...randi...artichoke"
"what about deja vu?"
"uh, normal too, look at http://discovermagazine.com/2005/sep/psychology-of-deja-vu/ "



Good luck to everybody on the show. Personally, I am rooting for Jim but, above all else, I just hope that it is fun to be in and to watch.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 06:39PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 19:34, Lemniscate wrote:

"uh, normal too, look at http://discovermagazine.com/2005/sep/psychology-of-deja-vu/ "
[/quote]

Thanks for the help. ;)
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 15, 2007 06:41PM)
Blah blah blah

just kidding, no need for thanks. the article doesn't really mean much of anything relative to the first 12 pages of the thread, but I just read it so I threw it in!
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 15, 2007 06:47PM)
What I do is real.

I'm really there when I'm doing it, with real people, using real items (when needed) and I'm really doing what I'm doing in the same real air we all breathe.

Want to challenge me on that?

Having said that, here's MY challenge for Randi:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=228723&forum=15&109

You cannot prove that what you saw was not real, yet I can prove it was, and any scientist will tell you that it was ... I was there and that pen really fell, three times!

Join me on the Phenomenon forum ... it's fun.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 15, 2007 07:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 19:47, ALEXANDRE wrote:
What I do is real.

I'm really there when I'm doing it, with real people, using real items (when needed) and I'm really doing what I'm doing in the same real air we all breathe.

Want to challenge me on that?

***
[/quote]

Koran would be proud... and it makes perfect sense that both of you, Alexandré and Jim/J ack, would utilize a mentalist's stratagem, d*********k, to simultaneously remain "accurate" yet intend something substantially different from the more accepted meaning of your words.

Are your words "inscribed" or "engraved" in my memory now?
:lol:
Arnon
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 15, 2007 07:31PM)
Did you actually READ that article? He puts everyone under hypnosis and then askes them if they have De'Ja'Vu....Why doesn't he just ask them if they are naked or an alien looking for food. That's what the last group of hypnotised people did when asked :)
NO ONE HAS A SOLUTION FOR Paramnesia, as it is called in English.
They've never had a definitive answer for this.
Still haven't!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 15, 2007 07:40PM)
Alexandré and Jim/J ack:

You want to prevent or exercise damage control should there be "exposure" on the Phenomenon forum at the NBC website.

Have you considered that [i][b]by representing what you do as being "real," [/b][/i]you are [i][b]inviting[/b][/i] exposure?
Message: Posted by: Corona Smith (Oct 15, 2007 07:44PM)
...the Arch Deacon of deception plays an arpeggio on the doomsday artery...
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 15, 2007 08:02PM)
Alexandre - what happened? You seem to have become a version of Jim... well, I suppose you do realize he does have a great role model!

DJM - as I explained on many a threads... if you really look at Jim's webpage, his posts, etc. he has never claimed to have supernatural powers - he has also never claimed to not have them... he has stated what he does... e.g. for example, he talks to dead people... I can talk to dead people too... however, they do not talk back to me :)...seriously, Jim has not been attacked and destroyed by debunkers as he is bulletproof based on how he has constructed his frame... he is a very interesting case example of disclaimers and claimers.


Arnon - it appers only Alexandre is doing things to prevent exposure by doing some active things on the website - it appears to me Jim is not doing anything to such an extent and is sticking to his usual motif which has served him well. The one difference between Jim's (or J ack's) claims of what is real versus Alexandres is that Jim is actually claiming a lot less in terms of what he is actually doing.. just that it is real... Alexandre, as per his posts and videos, is claiming a lot more.

Ciao

Dr S
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 15, 2007 08:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 12:50, Jim-Callahan wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-14 15:07, burst wrote:
Check out the "Behind the Scenes" clip and listen to what Criss says.
I wonder how him and Jim will get along.

/paul.f
[/quote]

Yes and you are not the only one.

-Jim

PS. All the Dead Boys send their best wishes.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-15 13:35, DJM wrote:
Jim, you just need to show him proof that you have paranormal powers, and then he would not cause you any problems.. Simple as that. ;)
[/quote]

Jim/J ack:

The alternative is, of course, to quit your d*********k.

Otherwise, In Criss Angel's own words,
"But the minute somebody crosses the line... and says this is something beyond a trick... this is supernatural...uh, I’m just gonna bust them, right on live television...which I think is going to create an explosive show."

(From Mission Impossible) Good luck, Jim. :lol:

Arnon

P.S. Dr. Spektor seems to think that your position is bullet-proofed. What if Criss Angel uses a silver bullet (or a silver bullet lite - hehe)?

P.P.S. Ever since your dinner invitation and my PM to you of my cell phone number, I have not heard from you. What's up?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 15, 2007 08:10PM)
I say there should be a showdown between Criss and Jim.. one will debunk the paranormal, one will debunk camera tricks.

High ratings for sure! :D
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 15, 2007 08:11PM)
Amen
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 15, 2007 08:17PM)
I am nothing but a version of myself.

If people choose to believe the over the top, tongue in cheek performances I have been posting on video, I'm sorry, but that's as far a disclaimer as I am willing to give concerning my abilities.

No, wait, perhaps I will start adding an additional disclaimer at the end of my performances:

DO SOME RESEARCH!

I agree with Arnon that I might be inciting something on the Phenomenon board. Maybe I will reconsider my strategy. I will certainly give it some thought, though I plan to throw people off of their paths when they attempt to reveal certain things.

I'm just having some fun with the "real" thing, and I have to admit I'm enjoying it a lot! If I only had the courage to share some of the PMs I have received.... Check out the comments on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOypxsui4vs

People need to relax a little. I find it very entertaining, and these are the comments I didn't delete due to intense profanity and actual exposure. Oh, man....

Dr. Spektor, I may be wrong, but I haven't claimed that much that I haven't been able to prove. Everything else, like the mention of "orbs" is just fun.

Also, I hadn't read that Criss Angel quote Arnon put up. It may just be showmanship to stir things up a bit, a little contreversy to get more people talking about the show. Afterall, on the Phenomenon forum there are pictures of Criss and Uri hugging and everything.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 15, 2007 08:48PM)
Hi Alexandre,

As mentioned, I look forward to your vids!

Arnon, if/when you hit Toronto, I'd be happy to go out for dinner with you!

Dr S
Message: Posted by: Oyama (Oct 15, 2007 09:32PM)
ALEXANDRE- You have stated many times before that what you say is tongue and cheek. I don't think it is neccesary for you to keep doing it. It seems that some have forgotten the lost art of showmanship and presentation. Maybe they forgot the lost art of having fun. On your next demo you should state that what you are doing is fake and a lie and don't say another word. That would be a great performance! Make sure you post that it was all lies though. I guess some of us get it and others do not. Just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Oct 15, 2007 10:16PM)
Well it has been a long long time since I have been on the Café. Can someone post the videos for this thing? Interviews etc?
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 15, 2007 11:19PM)
http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon

If you mean my videos, just go to my website or my MySpace page (links below):
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 15, 2007 11:38PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 21:48, Dr Spektor wrote:
***
Arnon, if/when you hit Toronto, I'd be happy to go out for dinner with you!

Dr S
[/quote]

I'd be delighted to take you up on that, and I hope to find myself visiting Toronto soon.

Thanks, Doc!

Arnon

P.S. It would be great if the members of Penny would plan one big bash get-together somewhere centralized. I wonder if it's feasible... hmm... perhaps after Phenomenon's last episode.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 16, 2007 12:19AM)
Michigan it is!
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 16, 2007 02:24AM)
No matter what, if you are walking the line between paranormalist and a person who claims superpowers, you are inviting suspicion. I can understand playing it up on live TV (although if Criss seems bent on making a name by ripping these folks, I'd reconsider) but why make this argument on a message board full of magicians?

I'm a younger guy, I guess I have a lot to learn about audience selection, but it just seems like an odd fit.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 16, 2007 06:23AM)
Good idea Arnon...Everyone can come to Orlando. Flights here are very inexpensive in comparison (Miles per $$$$) Lots to do for both Families and Partiers!
I hope to be at the Halloween Show of Phenomeneon. I'll see if I can work it into my schedule. I like Hollywood!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 16, 2007 07:17AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-16 01:19, Tone wrote:
Michigan it is!
[/quote]
I'll second that.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 16, 2007 09:42AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-15 20:31, Slim King wrote:
Did you actually READ that article? He puts everyone under hypnosis and then askes them if they have De'Ja'Vu....Why doesn't he just ask them if they are naked or an alien looking for food. That's what the last group of hypnotised people did when asked :)
NO ONE HAS A SOLUTION FOR Paramnesia, as it is called in English.
They've never had a definitive answer for this.
Still haven't!
[/quote]

You talking to me?! lol, Goodfella's imitations don't work well here.

Both to DJM and Slim, I didn't do anything but post a link to "spice things up". Neither of you should try to intimate my opinion cuz, combined, you are o for 2.

just for the record, "They've never had a definitive answer for this" is meaningless. We will all be long dead before you can be proved right but you can be proved wrong any day.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 16, 2007 09:48AM)
Dream on Lemniscate..It is you who can prove nothing :)
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 16, 2007 10:11AM)
Touchy much? take a chill pill, dude. I prove things every day (strike 1), never said I could prove anything about deja vu (strike 2), AND said repeatedly that I just added the link to spice things up (strike 3).

I must have written something you took the wrong way, so I apologize. I don't apologize for pointing out that your "never" statement is meaningless cuz it is. Sorry, that is just how it is. No insult, no disrespect, nothing of the kind. Chill, dude, seriously.

I've pmed you the same with some extra info that I hope will calm you down.

jeeeeeeeeeeez!

Maybe you thought I meant that there is currently enough evidence to prove you wrong. I did not mean that. I meant that it is possible that somebody can find evidence to prove you wrong every day. That is, every day it is possible that somebody can discover something to prove you wrong. That is opposed to "never", which cannot be proved (who is going to prove it? when? never, that's right, right in your comment).

I really hope it was that as a miscommunication.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 16, 2007 10:26AM)
Lemniscate, I think Slim is a bit joking with you... I know that I was in my previous reply to you. That's what the smilies are for. :)
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 16, 2007 10:27AM)
OMG, I totally misunderstood...

My bad and my apologies. I just didn't want any misunderstandings cuz they can snowball. That is why I was careful to say "I apologize". I'd say it again but I said it up above, and twice so far in this post if you count the quote. I shud say it again cuz I noticed where I was a moron (more of a moron I mean). I totally apologize. Totally me reading the posts wrong. All me. It was my girl's fault! I blame the government! Global warming?! Loch ness monster? The media?... It was me, FINE, I admit it!

I obviously am not fluent in smileys, btw. The nuances between winking smilies and normal ones, for example, elude me. I thought winking ones were for jokes and such but... yeah, sharing too much, lol. :D

Eh, I'll just shut up now.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 16, 2007 10:58AM)
[quote]

Otherwise, In Criss Angel's own words,
"But the minute somebody crosses the line... and says this is something beyond a trick... this is supernatural...uh, I’m just gonna bust them, right on live television...which I think is going to create an explosive show."

(From Mission Impossible) Good luck, Jim. :lol:

Arnon

[/quote]

In order to expose him, Criss must first figure out the method(s) being used. I for one, don't think he will be able to. In such cases, I see a call to the Amuzing Randi in his future.

Chad
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 16, 2007 11:17AM)
First to expose him, Jim has to give him a reason to go that route...

Also, it could be that Jim was chosen because he will create an interesting challenge... if all the rest are clearly using "theatre"... well, where is the tension... it could be Jim was chosen to make some dramatic moments for the show on the metalevel...

It will be very interesting!
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 16, 2007 11:22AM)
Jim is going to astound.
Then politely hide his smile.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 16, 2007 11:25AM)
It's alright Lemniscate. We ain't mad at 'cha.

Posted: Oct 16, 2007 1:00pm
Quote:


On 2007-10-15 21:02, Dr Spektor wrote:
Jim's (or J ack's)

Dr S



Doc, have you noticed, he changed all the names to "Jim" since the casting. I guess you can call him "Jim" now.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 16, 2007 12:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-16 12:17, Dr Spektor wrote:
First to expose him, Jim has to give him a reason to go that route...

Also, it could be that Jim was chosen because he will create an interesting challenge... if all the rest are clearly using "theatre"... well, where is the tension... it could be Jim was chosen to make some dramatic moments for the show on the metalevel...

It will be very interesting!
[/quote]

Actually Jim's entire position on it is a reason LOL.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 16, 2007 01:52PM)
I've called Jim "Jim" for ages... sometimes I call him JJ, sometimes I call him Jim J ack.... but I doesn't have to call him Johnson.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 16, 2007 01:54PM)
I always call him Steve.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 16, 2007 02:46PM)
Within weeks he will be known only as Jimnomenon.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 16, 2007 06:45PM)
Have there been changes in the contestant or Judge lineup? The VooDoo dolls want to know?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 16, 2007 06:48PM)
I will be dissapointed if Criss has run away.

J ack

H.o.A-X
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 16, 2007 06:49PM)
Not that I heard of, and I don't think Criss is leaving the show......come on!

Posted: Oct 16, 2007 7:51pm
Jim,
Why do you use the name J ack as well as Jim? Why do you use a spacebreak after the 'J'?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 16, 2007 06:54PM)
Isn't it obvious?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 17, 2007 12:59AM)
I got a PM about that. I wouldn't have asked if I new for sure...

Posted: Oct 17, 2007 6:01am
Here is an article I made about the 'Successor' at iTricks.com.

http://itricks.com/news/?p=2269

Enjoy!
Message: Posted by: dahliapelled (Oct 17, 2007 07:09AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:33, Tone wrote:
It certainly seems that Israel produces quite a lot of great mentalists!
[/quote]
Yes, definately so. mentalism is very strong in Israel. Israeli's are also great mental creators.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 17, 2007 09:00AM)
Dahlia, welcome to the Magic Café!

Folks, Just to let you know that Dahlia has real photos of herself doing the 'crazy man's hadcuffs' trick to: Bill Clinton, Rudolph Giuliani , Benjamin Netanyahu, Bill Gates and many more...
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 17, 2007 10:07AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 08:09, dahliapelled wrote:
Yes, definately so. mentalism is very strong in Israel. Israeli's are also great mental creators.
[/quote]

Everything I have seen and experienced supports that, esp. considering the ratio to overall population. Maybe I should move there...
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 17, 2007 10:21AM)
Israel had to develop these skills - when you are surrounded by the forces they are.. it makes sense developing the appearance of masterty of the mind, magic and other forces is natural!

Eretz Israel, I look forward to going again... last time I went was right after the Gulf war and things were very peaceful for a time. The ancient structures, the amazing amount of religious centres of power, (the excellent food), the natural beauty (like mountains to the lowest point of the Dead Sea in hours)... Masada... Eilat.... if one doesn't get filled with tons of creative energy being in the land that has so much history, culture, political issues, geography, fauna and flora (oh... one mystic moment I had was one Masada where for a span of five minutes, no tourists, no nothing...most people had left... then suddenly a yael walked around a corner and looked at me from about a foot a way and I swear it smiled)...

I had enough inspiration of bizarre magic and mentalism angles that still are bouncing around my head.

Of course, depending who you are, almost anywhere on Earth can be inspirational (including the Antartic)...
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 17, 2007 10:29AM)
You forgot to mention the hot chicks here. ;)
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 17, 2007 10:32AM)
lol@DJM, now you are REALLY talking my language, no misunderstandings here!

That's it, I off to visit ASAP, esp. since I have never been there. Heck, while I'm there, I'll have to visit Lior and pick up... um, everything of his that I don't have (Big Trivia and the new DVD).
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 17, 2007 10:40AM)
... sheesh, DJM... but you are correct. In good shape too for all the military training... and no pushovers that is for sure. Plus, you have a large amount of Russian Jewish beauties (i.e. Mila Jajovich types) now there too.
Message: Posted by: Virungan (Oct 17, 2007 11:06AM)
Mmmmm... But have you seen that episode of WEEDS where the Israeli girl.... Oh Never mind... :)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 17, 2007 11:55AM)
Dr Spektor & Lemniscate, here is an offer:
Why don't you DO visit Israel and the end of November and come to [url=http://www.mars.org.il]MARS 2007[/url] (Magic At the Red Sea) convention. There will be three lectures about mentalism by myself, Shimon Nahmani (also was at the 'successor') and Itai Asher-Meir (really inovative guy).

These three lectures hold original material. Also arriving: Harry Allen, Joshua Jay, Aaron Fisher, Sandi Masuri and David Kaye (all Jewish - by chance)

So, you will enjoy visiting the Promised Land as well attending a really good convention.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 12:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 08:09, dahliapelled wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-02 21:33, Tone wrote:
It certainly seems that Israel produces quite a lot of great mentalists!
[/quote]
Yes, definately so. mentalism is very strong in Israel. Israeli's are also great mental creators.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-17 11:21, Dr Spektor wrote:
Israel had to develop these skills - when you are surrounded by the forces they are.. it makes sense developing the appearance of masterty of the mind, magic and other forces is natural!
***
[/quote]

First, Ms. Pelled, baruch ha'bah! Welcome to this forum, where there is as much camaraderie as vigorous debate. :D

Second, I think that Israel has had to go and does go [i]beyond[/i] the "appearance" of mastery, to "actual" mastery in order to survive and thrive, as it [b]has[/b]!

That is the motto for the very creation of the State of Israel: "Im tirtsu, eyn zo agadah" - "If you will it, it is no legend" - the very [i]essence[/i] of magic.

So mote it be, and ESPecially yours, Im yirtze ha'shem,
Arnon
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 17, 2007 12:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 12:06, Virungan wrote:
Mmmmm... But have you seen that episode of WEEDS where the Israeli girl.... Oh Never mind... :)
[/quote]

Oh yes, Yael Hoffman. :)
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 12:22PM)
Ms. Pelled:

Because of your fortuitous appearance on our forum, I found and read the article at http://www.metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20070122-062546-2298r

According to the article about "The Successor" show in Israel:

"In an interview, Geller insisted that the prime-time show does not involve sleight of hand - and that the participants do actually have supernatural powers capable of performing marvels."

However, the NBC incarnation called "The Phenomenon" has Criss Angel, Uri Geller's co-host, warning that if any performer claims supernatural powers, he will bust them on live television.

How do you predict that Angel and Geller will interact on this issue, and will there be an explosive event of exposure on live TV?
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 17, 2007 12:28PM)
Arnon, the people who expose magic (i.e. masked magicians) are frustrated magicians who didn't make it to the TV show and need their five minutes of glory at any cost.

The production of the show might make it controversy to gain more debate, interest, ratings and...$ $ $
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 12:31PM)
Roei:

I'm not talking about [i]other[/i] magicians - I'm talking about the co-host, Criss Angel himself, as he has [i]promised[/i] the viewers in his own words!

Arnon
Message: Posted by: RileyG (Oct 17, 2007 12:49PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 13:28, Roei wrote:
Arnon, the people who expose magic (i.e. masked magicians) are frustrated magicians who didn't make it to the TV show and need their five minutes of glory at any cost.

The production of the show might make it controversy to gain more debate, interest, ratings and...$ $ $
[/quote]

I agree 100% on all accounts.... Most exposers are low rate hacks in any venue and not just magic, mentalism...
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 17, 2007 12:57PM)
Scott Cram told me a story when I asked him about the Masked Magician series years ago (he was still in Pleasant Hill at Cal Magic).

He told a story about an old building that was torn down to make way for a Target. They tore the old building down in a day but it was months and months and months before the Target was built.

The moral: It is much easier to tear something down than to build it up.


I always remember that story when I am tempted to take the easy way on anything. Sometimes the easy way is fine and sometimes it isn't. Exposure is the easy way for people who can't (or are too lazy) perform to make an impact.

I also always ask myself if I am tearing something down or building something up. Thanks for the thoughts, Scott!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 02:02PM)
Some believe that Uri Geller will not be able to hold himself back from spouting supernatural interpretations of the performances that will take place on "The Phenomenon." This is [i]despite[/i] his taped interview on NBC, in which he appeared to restrain himself effectively, albeit with great strain.

To me, it all comes down to Criss Angel's tolerance threshold for mumbo jumbo vs. theatrics. I wonder if he will promulgate specific guidelines to the performers before their live appearances, or take a chance by leaving the tenor and extensiveness of their supernatural patter up to their individual judgments?

Perhaps Angel is even [i]hoping[/i] for an opportunity to bust someone live.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 17, 2007 02:06PM)
Enter Jim! The Drama metafactor for interdynamics of the judges.... they need Jim badly!
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 17, 2007 02:12PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 15:02, arnon wrote:
Some believe that Uri Geller will not be able to hold himself back from spouting supernatural interpretations of the performances that will take place on "The Phenomenon."
[/quote]

Who? How do you know? Curious cuz there seems to be a whole other place where this is being discussed.

I'm especially curious cuz I wud [b]think[/b] the opposite is true. Geller wouldn't want to say anything about it being "real" lest somebody expose the method, etc.

Really interesting stuff!
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 17, 2007 07:08PM)
Do you really think that Criss will bust anyone?
It seems to me that he said so just for the sake of building credibility.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 17, 2007 07:55PM)
Now what I think would be cool is instead of exposing/busting by revieling methods is to replicate an effect - period. i.e. if Criss says "fowl! that is not supernatural!" then duplicates the effect using theatrical magic sans explanation... that would be sufficient without having to explain the nuts and bolts....

Then if there was a challenge it would be one of escalating powerful effects with the judges being forced to "duplicate" things....but only for those who claim true supernatural powers....

Of course, the supernatural performer could say "sure you can duplicate it but I am STILL doing it via supernatural means... while you do it artifically.. nyah nyah nyah!"

:bat:
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Oct 17, 2007 08:46PM)
"The existence of wigs does not disprove the existence of real hair."
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 17, 2007 09:22PM)
It will be an exhibition. The empty box as always will be secure.

I don't suspect Peter Falk nor Angela Lansbury need apply.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 17, 2007 09:29PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 21:46, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
"The existence of wigs does not disprove the existence of real hair."
[/quote]

It DOES show that fake hair exists, though.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 10:13PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 22:29, entity wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-17 21:46, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
"The existence of wigs does not disprove the existence of real hair."
[/quote]

It DOES show that fake hair exists, though.

- entity
[/quote]

And if a debunker grabs and pulls off Burt Reynolds' or Howard Cosell's or William Shatner's wigs, it [i][b]definitively disproves[/b][/i] that they are sporting their natural hair.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 17, 2007 10:16PM)
Allot of work to tug on Howards hair.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 10:25PM)
And what's [i]that[/i] on your thumb, Mr. Geller? You've got some 'splainin' to do. :lol:

Arnon

P.S. I buried one of my doe bunnies today, "Change-O," in our back yard. She got a full Jewish funeral as well as my wife's personally created ceremony. She was a sweet-as-sugar, magical addition to me in every way. I will always remember her.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 17, 2007 10:54PM)
Pets can become like a part of the family.

Sorry for your loss.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 17, 2007 11:00PM)
Thank you, Tom.

I appreciate your empathy.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 18, 2007 07:45PM)
Few years ago, Menny Lindenfeld invited me to watch the video of him stabbing his on hand on a sharp knife in a live show. He tried to do the knife under one of four cylinders routine and missed.

I told hi, that one day this tape will worth a fortune.
my prediction was right!

[url=http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon/video/#mea=168272]Check this out[]/url

Posted: Oct 18, 2007 8:46pm
Here is the link again
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 18, 2007 07:49PM)
Here is his [url=http://www.keshet-tv.com/geller/Details.aspx?CanID=3276]full act[/url] at the successor
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 18, 2007 09:12PM)
NBC is trying to get American's interested in watching someone possibly hurt themselves on live tv.

Weird but effective.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 18, 2007 11:04PM)
Alexandré:

Isn't that part of the appeal of "Smash & Stab" or "Russian Roulette" routines?

I auditioned with one, but I guess they preferred more of a "madman" character, i.e. Jim Karol.

I guess I should have made my performing character insane. Oh well...

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 19, 2007 05:43AM)
I think that the production needed 10 different characters: The Weird, The Mad man, The Chick....
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 19, 2007 07:09AM)
So now instead of the American angle it has become totally an International thing. I do see the problems that Arnon points out. How Uri claims no slight of hand or trickery.
Any kid who can Google
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=smash+and+stab&btnG=Google+Search
Will find a dozen places to purchase this....Removing any Mindpower possibilities.....I'm sorry that they are showing that fellow shishkabob his hand over and over. That's gotta hurt!
With some exceptions, it was obvious that they were looking for a certain amount of diversity.
Are you referring to Callahan as The Weird? :)
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 19, 2007 09:15AM)
Here is more info: http://www.ellusionist.com/phenomenon.php
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 19, 2007 09:42AM)
John is still working on the show but Marla has moved on to something else :)
They are both cool people.!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 19, 2007 09:48AM)
I should take her place on the show. But I don't know if they are presently hiring.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 19, 2007 09:51AM)
The casting is over basically Mike. The show airs in less than a week. She was the Senior Casting Producer...I'm not sure they'll need one again until there's a new season. :) She and John are both pretty photogenic but I'm not sure if you'll see them on the show?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 19, 2007 10:30AM)
Thank you buddy.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 19, 2007 10:32AM)
Mike, you deserve your own magic show. Not all that weird competition stuff.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 19, 2007 10:53AM)
Thanks DJM, I appreciate that. :)
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 19, 2007 02:03PM)
I didn't audition with a "run-of-the-mill" commercially marketed "Smash & Stab," so had I made it to the finals, no one would have been able to Google my effect. However, I have seen the [i]exact model[/i] of Jim Karol's "smash & stab" for sale, which was invented by someone other than he.

Nevertheless, I believe that Roei is correct - they want "personalities" as Marla had termed it to me. Little did I know that "characters" was probably more like it. :lol:

Arnon
(With a touch of sour grapes)
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 19, 2007 02:15PM)
When watching the clips, did anyone else have flashbacks of There's Something About Mary when Bavli was on screen?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 19, 2007 02:28PM)
I think that the big Phenomenon winners will be the Internet Magic Suppliers and NBC of course. When something that is marketed by XXXXXMagic is seen on NBC what's to keep them from saying..."As seen on TV!"
in their next marketing ads?
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 19, 2007 02:43PM)
Just a touch, huh, arnon? lol. I would think it was obvious from the very first second that they wanted "Characters", how could it be any other way?

I think your approach was correct, to a point. Yeah, they couldn't have just googled it, but I tend to think the ease of internet searches and places like this would make things a little too easy for anybody to truly believe that anything they perform will remain a secret to anybody who REALLY wants to know. Just my opinion, of course and how else could you handle it but the way you mentioned, you know?

Now, I'll add one more big winner to your list, Slim. The Magic Café. I am sure they won't share but I would expect a HUGE spike in traffic following the shows. More hits = more money they can charge advertisers, and we already discussed how the magic suppliers and NBC win.

In the end, what is more important to me is how "magic" (cuz that is how people are going to see it) and our friends who compete do.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 19, 2007 02:54PM)
One of the magic stores in Tel Aviv got an article about the Successor and the fact THEY SELL special blindfolds and a spoon bending course. They had big line of costumers for few weeks....
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 19, 2007 02:58PM)
Really? I must be a total cynic. I think you could offer free money at a store in the US but everybody would forget about it in a couple days, lol!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 21, 2007 07:48AM)
I think that the MagicMarts will sell a lot of stuff but I'm not sure this will help with the AMAZEMENT factor for Mentalism.....It will turn it into "Just Another Card Trick".....Anyone with $50 can do it. Don't you think? :)
Will there be a big advertising push this week? I'd like to see Jim Callahans spooky image on the screen.
I hear WALMART is going to run a special on mentalism products :)
What's to stop them?
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 21, 2007 08:53AM)
CAPTAIN FLAMINGO... that is who
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 21, 2007 10:32AM)
This is why we need to strive for more creative/unique presentations. We need to step it up!

Many know the Invisible Deck, but when I do it, it gets by most.

On rare occasion a clever guy will say,

"oh you can do that with the Invisible Deck"

And I'll say "sure, if you're into mimicking the feat, but I don't use trick decks...."
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 21, 2007 12:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-21 11:32, ALEXANDRE wrote:

On rare occasion a clever guy will say,

"oh you can do that with the Invisible Deck"

And I'll say "sure, if you're into mimicking the feat, but I don't use trick decks...."
[/quote]

With all due respect, this has happened to me, as well, and when it does, I feel it's the equivalent of getting busted. You are right- when used correctly, it can completely go by unnoticed, EVEN to those familiar with the deck.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 21, 2007 12:22PM)
Busted? I don't see it as such. People will sometimes guess a method and be right. I will never admit. I am never busted!!! And they are never able to prove they are right for I leave no evidence!
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 21, 2007 01:08PM)
I agree, Alexandre. I will never admit, either. Let them think what they want- I'll go into something else they cannot explain. As far as the I.D. itself, when employed as a small part of a much larger routine, it should go by unnoticed, fooling even those who own one themselves.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 21, 2007 05:36PM)
Tony has been exceptionally busy for the last little while and absent from this forum for much of the past week or so. I'm beginning to wonder if he isn't playing Shipi to Jack's Uri.

- entity
Message: Posted by: NFox (Oct 22, 2007 06:27AM)
Hey, guys, it's slightly off topic, but I just wanted to quickly drop in to let you know that I am a moderator over on NBC's Phenomenon Message Board. If you see anything over there that doesn't explicitly go against the forum rules (Like exposure), let me know via PM on NBC and I'll do my best to take care of it.

My username over there is ComedyWriter, though I'm easily identifiable because I sign all of my messages the same way as I do here.

-Nick
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Oct 22, 2007 07:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-18 22:12, ALEXANDRE wrote:
NBC is trying to get American's interested in watching someone possibly hurt themselves on live tv.[/quote]

That's called *America's Funniest Videos*.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 22, 2007 06:48PM)
Jim, I don't think you will get many fans by attacking people like Johnny Carson and Criss on the NBC forum.. Not a good start.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 22, 2007 06:59PM)
No attack just statements of truth.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 22, 2007 07:12PM)
It's very easy to tell the truth about someone who can't defend himself.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 22, 2007 07:12PM)
And you know it's true that Johnny Carson wished he could do what Geller does... how, exactly? Did you have a talk with Carson about this while he was alive?

I like a lot of what you do, Jim, but you're probably better off not trying to make points by bashing folks who aren't around to defend themselves.

- entity
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 22, 2007 07:14PM)
Entity, looks like you read my mind about last part. ;)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 22, 2007 07:28PM)
As far as I know, Carson was always against those who claim they have supernatural powers and was very open about it. So to say he wished he "could do what Uri did and does" doesn't seem like the truth.. Actually it just seems disrespectful.
Message: Posted by: edh (Oct 22, 2007 07:52PM)
I don't think there's any truth at all regarding Jim's statement about Johnny Carson wanting to do what Uri did.

What Johnny wanted to do was to see if what Uri did was real, and he proved that it wasn't real at all.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 22, 2007 08:22PM)
I thought JJ could speak to the dead... so why does it matter if he talked to Carson or not while Carson was alive?

Also, guess the stage is being set for dramatic explosive drama of Criss vs. Callahan....
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 22, 2007 08:28PM)
I'll bet johnny DID want to do REAL magic :)
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 22, 2007 08:43PM)
In his own way he did.
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 22, 2007 09:47PM)
Terrific Banachek clip here:

http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon/video/#mea=168920
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 22, 2007 10:27PM)
Oh boy, Jim could bring us all back in contact with not just Carson at NBC. He could reach back to Jolson.

I suggest a routine involving the three NBC chimes...there was once a fourth chime to be used during wartime. Spookyness.
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (Oct 22, 2007 11:21PM)
Entity,

Not bashing just offering my well thought out opinion.

Uri Geller did basicaly one thing and enchanted the world for a brief time.
Are you telling me any magician would not want to do the same if they could?

DJM, I fear the wrong foot went foward the moment they asked me to come out to the auditions in Hollywood.

Eddie,

Ted and Haralan say they know Jolson.
But alas the fourth chime has been lost in time somewere and we are not sure what side of the veil it rests.

But who knows it may turn up.
Everthing and one does sooner or later.
At least that is what Hoffa told me yesterday.

For those intersted the fun is just starting over on the NBC Phenomenon site.

J ack

H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 22, 2007 11:51PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 00:21, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Entity,

Not bashing just offering my well thought out opinion.

Uri Geller did basicaly one thing and enchanted the world for a brief time.
Are you telling me any magician would not want to do the same if they could?

[/quote]

As truthfull coherant and straight forward an explination as I have ever seen out of your crowd of charectors Jim. I have to say I have not thought of it like this and it is pretty good.

Thanks for the food for thought.

Only he may have enchanted the world for a bit more than a "brief time" LOL.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 23, 2007 12:09AM)
Jim, I believe Johnny Carson had more viewers and respect from people than Uri could ever dream of.. He's considered a TV icon all around the world. So I really doubt he wished he could be like Uri, either as a magician or an entertainer. He seemed very happy with what he had for many years and had huge success when Geller was still just a kid, and right until his retirement.

I think you are so blind by your devotion to Geller that you don't even notice the nosnesne that is coming out of your mouth.. untless of course it's actually J ack talking, hard to know sometimes.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 23, 2007 01:13AM)
Not trying to defend Jim on the Johnny remark....He's a big boy

But I find too many people in this world worry way too much about what other people think, dead or not. Whoever it was on the NBC forum that was worried what Johnny might think about Uri being on NBC probably worries as much as everyone here instantly worried about what Jim said.
Saying Carson was a magician who wished he could do what Uri did/does is in no way slamming Johnny for all the years as a great entertainer... but everyone read it as an attack?
That behavior I find much more curious....
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 23, 2007 01:18AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-22 19:48, DJM wrote:
Jim, I don't think you will get many fans by attacking people like Johnny Carson and Criss on the NBC forum.. Not a good start.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-22 19:59, Jim-Callahan wrote:
No attack just statements of truth.
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2007-10-22 20:12, entity wrote:
***
I like a lot of what you do, Jim, but you're probably better off not trying to make points by bashing folks who aren't around to defend themselves.

- entity
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-23 00:21, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Entity,
Not bashing just offering my well thought out opinion.
***
J ack

H.O.A-X
[/quote]

Jim/J ack:

Can one who claims to be so spiritual disregard the Law of Karma?*

Arnon
_______________________________________________________________
*In my occult studies, this law appears to transcend all practices and beliefs,
and no one seems to be exempt from its ultimate operation. Beware.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 23, 2007 01:22AM)
No one is a greater fan of Johnny Carson than I am. -And I say "am", because I always will be. Truly, he was an innovator, a pioneer. What he brought to the late night world, set the bar for everyone who came after. His successors will be the first to admit that no one before or since is in the same league. And although Johnny had nothing to prove comedically, perhaps he didn't approve of Geller's presenting himself as "the real deal". We'll never know. We DO know Randi didn't approve of it. But we can't compare Randi to Carson... except for the fact that they both knew magic. Well. And therefore, perhaps found common ground in that they both considered Geller disingenuous. Yes, Carson was a genius. He was, for three + decades, probably the most revered figure in America (along with Walter Cronkite). Yet what Carson did that night on national television to Geller, is undeniable, and you can look at it in one of two ways: Either Johnny did the right thing in trying to expose dishonesty, or he simply wasn't being nice. Whatever the motive, it was certainly OUT OF CHARACTER for Johnny. Carson was a unique talent in that he could make a BAD guest look GOOD; a boring guest look entertaining. He could make a 90-year-old man who collects marbles look and feel like the most important person on earth. But Carson pressed on that fateful night, suprising Uri, making him sweat, and that's simply a fact. Perhaps he did it simply for entertainment; for controversy. Look, here we are 30 years later talking about it! Johnny's true motives will never be known, and sadly, the likes of him, will never again be seen.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 23, 2007 01:35AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 02:13, WhateverUnique wrote:

Saying Carson was a magician who wished he could do what Uri did/does is in no way slamming Johnny for all the years as a great entertainer... but everyone read it as an attack?
That behavior I find much more curious....
[/quote]

Jim on the NBC board:

"Who cares what Carson would say?

Carson was a magician who wished he could do what Uri did and does.
(I think the same holds true of Criss.)"

I found that attitude pretty disrespectful.. It's not about what you say, it's how you say it.


Gabelson, from Wikipedia:

In 1973, Carson had a legendary run-in with popular psychic Uri Geller when he invited Geller to appear on his show. Carson, an experienced stage magician, wanted a neutral demonstration of Geller's alleged abilities, so, at the advice of his friend and fellow magician James Randi, he gave Geller several spoons out of his desk drawer and asked him to bend them with his psychic powers


I think that was fair enough to make it neutral. If Geller really had psychic powers then that shouldn't have matter to him.. that's the chance he took for getting on a show like this.

Letterman almost made Paris Hilton cry a few weeks ago.. I found that much worse than what Carson did to Geller.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 23, 2007 01:51AM)
DJM-
Agreed, but it was out of character for Carson to "show someone up", whether he thought Geller to be a fraud, or not. There's a reason America invited him into their living room and bedroom every night, and it certainly wasn't because he was a bully. On the contrary, Johnny was one of the most endearing individuals in the history of television. So one is left to conclude he had a beef, (likely as a fellow-magician), agree with Carson's tactics or not. As far as Letterman, I was Dave's head monologue writer for over four years, and I can tell you that Dave is far from a bully, no matter what you might think. He is a man of character. During the Marv Albert scandal, Letterman refused to make jokes about Marv, as he thought it "bad form". Before the Michael Jackson trial, he refused to make child molestation jokes (when every other late night host did), as he believed a person truly WAS innocent until proven guilty... except for O.J. (I think everyone gets a free pass on that one.) I thought the Paris Hilton interview was absolutely brilliant. Here was one of the most entertaining late night interviews since... since Dave intervied Farah Fawcett. How entertaining do you think interviews of those two ladies would be if conducted by ANY other late night host? Dave, although asking Paris about prison, was still gallant in his own curmudgeonly way. You may call it an "ambush interview", but when you go on Letterman, you've got to expect theatrics. If you can't take the heat... He's going to do what he can to make an interview COMPELLING. Paris Hilton is famous for the sake of fame. She thrives on scandal. This is the highest-profile interview Letterman has done in some time; even people who missed the initial airing have now seen the interview. It can only help poor, defenseless Paris.
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 23, 2007 02:11AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 02:35, DJM wrote:

Letterman almost made Paris Hilton cry a few weeks ago.. I found that much worse than what Carson did to Geller.
[/quote]

Sign #837 that a thread is getting out of control:

People begin to defend Paris Hilton.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 23, 2007 02:18AM)
Gabelson, I love Dave, I don't think he's a bully at all. But I had a feeling he took it a bit too far with the Paris interview, and continued all those questions even though you could see on her face she was about to cry. That was a bit uncomfortable to watch. This kind of comedy usually works for him with other guests, but this time it was just ackward. Maybe he was expecting her to play along, instead of just sitting there like the idiot that she is.


Brainchild, I'm a big fan of Paris. I got all her home videos. ;)
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 23, 2007 02:22AM)
As I inferred, if Paris' "people" are smart, they'll get her back on Letterman asap. The numbers will go through the roof... and so will Paris' personal appearance fees. -Hey, maybe she's NOT an idiot? -NAAHHHHH!!!
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 23, 2007 08:18AM)
My objection to Jim's Carson remarks wasn't based so much upon the sentiment expressed (although beginning his post with: "Who cares what Carson would say?" does seem like bashing to me). My objection was primarily with regard to Jim's characterizing his remark about Carson wishing he could do what Geller did as, in Jim's own words, "the truth".

He's now saying that it was just his opinion. Perhaps he should think BEFORE he writes, and write what he means.

Carson stated many times his negative opinions of Geller and others, such as Peter Popoff and Ted Serios. He also told Kreskin that if he ever came on the show and claimed psychic abilities he'd expose him and never have him back. Kreskin was on the show many times.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 23, 2007 08:45AM)
...someone thinks this thread is out of control...?

yuk yuk

Carson is a good example of how comedy skills, magician skills, well..basically entertainment skills are transferable to many different presentations.

Making someone laugh in a way that lightens the soul is magic. Seriously.

And for those who FINALLY figured out when J ack posts it is not the same as Jim posts... bravo!
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 23, 2007 09:09AM)
Just to clarify, for those who haven't seen Jim's post on the NBC Phenomenon Forum...

Jim DID qualify his remarks there with a note at the bottom stating that it was just his opinion. Later, in this forum he defended his remarks about Carson as a statement of truth.

It's his remark here, which characterized Jim's statement about Carson 'wishing he could do what Geller did' as 'the truth', that I find objectionable.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 23, 2007 02:17PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 10:09, entity wrote:
Just to clarify, for those who haven't seen Jim's post on the NBC Phenomenon Forum...

Jim DID qualify his remarks there with a note at the bottom stating that it was just his opinion. Later, in this forum he defended his remarks about Carson as a statement of truth.

It's his remark here, which characterized Jim's statement about Carson 'wishing he could do what Geller did' as 'the truth', that I find objectionable.

- entity
[/quote]

Entity/Tom:

Are you and others [i]still[/i] trying to reconcile Jim/J ack's "opinions" and "truths" as he puts them?

In the so-called "flame wars" between me and Jim/J ack, I've demonstrated his self-contradictory positions numerous times. No point in continuing them. Nothing more to prove about him.

Isn't it obvious by now that Jim/J ack espouses, when convenient to him, his own flavor of "subjective realism"? And that "consistency" in [i]his mind[/i] is the hobgoblin of everyone else's [i]smaller[/i] minds?

I say, allow the Tao to unfold.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Drewmcadam (Oct 23, 2007 03:14PM)
T - a - o

It's unfolded!
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 23, 2007 03:39PM)
Since it’s so close to show time, I thought I’d drop one final line and wish the contestants the best.

I’m excited to see what the performers will do to separate themselves one from the other and keep things fresh. As far as I’m concerned, you’re all winners already. This challenge is sure to help you improve as performers. I don’t see how it can’t. And it’s going to give you a lot of publicity and opportunities you might never have received otherwise. I wish you all the best and hope you’re all able to take advantage of the opportunities that arise from this experience and parlay them into further success.

I will definitely watch and will definitely vote. All the best.


Holly
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 23, 2007 03:54PM)
From one of the participants, here are tomorrow night's performers: Jim Carol, Eran Raven, Ehud Segev, Gerry McCambridge.

Four will perform; two will be voted off.

Bob
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Oct 23, 2007 04:04PM)
I haven't read the 17 pages on this but am I wrong in thinking our "art" and this "venue" don't quite raggety ann and andy?

D.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 23, 2007 04:12PM)
I feel that Jim Karol is the strongest performer among these four..... Hands Down!
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 23, 2007 04:18PM)
I hope Paris Hilton wins.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Oct 23, 2007 04:22PM)
Go Tampa!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 23, 2007 05:08PM)
Excellent Jim J ack will be for Halloween - as it should be!

Awoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 23, 2007 05:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 16:14, Drewmcadam wrote:
T - a - o

It's unfolded!
[/quote]

And will continue to unfold... and the beat goes on.
Message: Posted by: JohnEBlaze (Oct 23, 2007 06:17PM)
Wow, two of those four right off the bat? That means there will only be eight left for the two hour Halloween special!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 23, 2007 06:30PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-23 18:08, Dr Spektor wrote:
Excellent Jim J ack will be for Halloween - as it should be!

Awoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[/quote]

Yes Doctor, as I believe you know, the Tao always unfolds as it should. :D
Message: Posted by: Oyama (Oct 23, 2007 08:22PM)
Anyone know what time this comes on? I have Dish network and it shows that preseason Basketball or something is coming on at the time I expected it to come on. Maybe I am looking at the wrong channel?
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 24, 2007 12:03AM)
Oyama:

From NBC Universal Media Village:

NBC'S 'PHENOMENON' PREPARES TO MYSTIFY CELEBRITY GUESTS CARMEN ELECTRA, RACHEL HUNTER AND ROSS MATHEWS IN EXPLOSIVE LIVE PREMIERE WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 24
Published: October 23, 2007

Dayna Devon, Raven Symone, Holly Madison, Bridget Marquardt and Kenda Wilkinson (Stars of "The Girls Next Door"), Among Other Celebrities Preparing to Be Mystified

BURBANK, Calif. - October 23, 2007 – NBC announced today that Carmen Electra ("I Want Candy"), Rachel Hunter ("Dead Write") and Ross Mathews (Ross the Intern from NBC's "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno") will star in the exhilarating and mystifying live search for the next great mentalist when NBC's new alternative series "Phenomenon" premieres, Wednesday, October 24 (8-9 p.m. ET) .

***
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 03:47AM)
The winner gets $250,000. Darn, something told me I should of applied for the casting.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 03:56AM)
Paul, did Jim thank you yet? http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=222933&forum=15&start=0
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 24, 2007 07:56AM)
I will knock [b]something[/b] over on the show tonight from the comfort of my living room.

Watch carefully, it may be on camera...!
Message: Posted by: kjenkings (Oct 24, 2007 08:03AM)
I think this show is going to be really fantastic,I'm personally rooting for a favorite of mine Jim Callahan he's absolutely wonderful.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:44AM)
But do not forget Jim is a "paranormalist." The voters might not even know what that is.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 24, 2007 09:01AM)
They probably will have a better understanding of the term "paranormalist" than "mentalist."
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Oct 24, 2007 09:07AM)
Well said Tony. I still think it is funny that we even use the word mentalist to describe ourselves. That doesn't mean anything to 99% of people.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 24, 2007 09:30AM)
Tonight is the Big night.
Ehud Segev - Go get them!
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 24, 2007 09:33AM)
According to Wikipedia:

The term mentalist refers to entertainers whose performance appears to be based on "psychic" abilities, featuring the ability to read minds, project the mind to alter the state of matter, foretell the future, and see distant and hidden objects. This branch of magic is referred to as "mentalism."

There are analogues in the field of parapsychology, where a mentalist is defined as someone who is believed to read thoughts and place suggestions in people's minds.

While a psychic may claim to observe a hidden spiritual reality and report on it, in a process known as "psychic reading," a mentalist might claim the ability to manipulate and change that reality.

The stage mentalist ostensibly mimics these supernatural behaviours by natural means.
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 24, 2007 11:05AM)
Here's a "dress rehearsal" clip of Jim Karol doing the bear trap and some pointless mindreading. Let's hope the show is better than this.

B

http://www.nbc.com/Phenomenon/video/#mea=171072
Message: Posted by: boboshempy (Oct 24, 2007 11:53AM)
I agree. That is the same bear trap gag he has been doing for years.

Nick
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 24, 2007 12:01PM)
My daughter saw Jim a few years back at her college, then she had more respect for what I do. Jim became my hero that day. ;)
Message: Posted by: Jay Are (Oct 24, 2007 12:06PM)
Please let the rest of the show be better than the dress rehearsal...
Message: Posted by: Castle2369 (Oct 24, 2007 01:14PM)
I agree Jim is a wonderful entertainer and I wish him the best as do I all the other contestants as well. This show has all the right qualities to be something great, and I sincerely hope that is.

-Erick
Message: Posted by: Drewmcadam (Oct 24, 2007 04:33PM)
Well, if it had been me I would have done it differently...

I would have walked onstage in front of the monitors, audience, cameras, AV equipment - and lights... bright, bright lights... and F-R-O-Z-E

Easy to criticize when the only thing staring you in the face is a computer screen!

Drew
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 05:18PM)
That video wasn't as strong as I'd hoped. Perhaps he will take it up a notch for tonights performance?
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 24, 2007 05:23PM)
Didn't that trap thing appear on hocus pocus a few weeks ago? lol
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 24, 2007 05:26PM)
He was pretty funny there.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 05:36PM)
Paranormalist or not, I love Jim/J ack.
You go man.
Rev it up and pop the clutch.
You've done it before and you can do it again.
Peace,
(This is bettern Pro Rasslin)
Parson
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 24, 2007 06:11PM)
Have a great show everybody.
Saved a 1111 lucky post number for ya!
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 24, 2007 06:18PM)
I will need help redirecting and confusing exposure posts. I feel some people on there are just waiting for the opportunity and NBC will probably not erase all of it.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 06:27PM)
Is the NBC site OK? I'm having trouble getting on the forum there.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 24, 2007 06:50PM)
I hope everyone will remember to set their VCRs to record the show tonight :D

Enjoy!

All the Best,
Arnon
Message: Posted by: Bushido (Oct 24, 2007 07:15PM)
I'm here in San Diego and NBC is covering the fires 24 hours. Is there any way to view the show online?
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 07:16PM)
Well the first guy was 7.5-8/10 in my opinion.Can't wait for number 2!
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 24, 2007 07:17PM)
I can't believe the first critique by Angel...Let's see...I can search these two works and this person and...
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 07:26PM)
The 2 guy should be eliminated. I say 5/10. A little funny but actuall peice bad with the bear trap...

BTW that guy has a high voice lol!
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 24, 2007 07:28PM)
Wow. Jim Karol. I like to live dangerously, as well. Once, in the middle of winter, I stuck my tongue to a frozen streetlamp. Expose THAT, Mr. Angel!
Message: Posted by: wpt1031 (Oct 24, 2007 07:28PM)
Just turned the show on saw Jim Karol perform and wow...it was so boring. I have to agree with Criss on Karol but I didn't see Ehud peform.
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 07:34PM)
I got circle from Uri. I was thinking sross but got circle.

Now Uri does a switch with whatever America voted most lol! Can't wait to see wht is next. Also how long is this?
Message: Posted by: wpt1031 (Oct 24, 2007 07:39PM)
Its an hour long so it will end at 9:00.
Message: Posted by: wpt1031 (Oct 24, 2007 07:44PM)
Pretty sure I just saw Rich Ferguson in the audience.
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 07:44PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 20:39, wpt1031 wrote:
Its an hour long so it will end at 9:00.
[/quote]

Can't be, they only got 3 acts so far...

I give this guy a 7.5/10 I have yet to see something absoultley mindblowing!
Message: Posted by: wpt1031 (Oct 24, 2007 07:51PM)
Yep I was right it was Rich Ferguson and he actually was used as a audience memeber randomly. Very interesting to see other magicians show up.
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 07:56PM)
Well this one gets an 8.5/10...very good! Low presentation.
Message: Posted by: emanmagic5 (Oct 24, 2007 08:01PM)
Ok, only 4 people?!! Well the last 2 make it through.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:07PM)
Will Jim/Jack be on, next week?
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 24, 2007 08:16PM)
Yes, from what I understand, Jim is on next week.
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Oct 24, 2007 08:17PM)
Eran was the best IMO.
he had the best presentation
gerry disappointed me with his performance although he had a good routine. could've used more build up though...
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 08:20PM)
Well...wasn't everyone saying nothing would be exsposed on the show? I pecifically heard the words 'PK touch' lisp out of criss angels mouth. Well now I guess we know exposure is in the cards...
How does that settle with everyone? I know many people were swearing it wouldn't happen.
Message: Posted by: magicdoctor (Oct 24, 2007 08:24PM)
I thought the show was boring.Hopefully it gets better as the weeks go on.Chris does'nt seem to fit the show either.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 08:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 19:27, Slim King wrote:
Is the NBC site OK? I'm having trouble getting on the forum there.
[/quote]

Hey no Slim, amazingly the NBC forum is slow...I and others I spoke with have had that issue....even before the show tonight. So now it's doomed....doomed I tell you. Maybe some of the lines have been burnt by all the fires.....No I'm not being an ass or trying to make jokes...seriously....Maybe....
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 24, 2007 08:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:20, WhateverUnique wrote:
Well...wasn't everyone saying nothing would be exsposed on the show? I pecifically heard the words 'PK touch' lisp out of criss angels mouth. Well now I guess we know exposure is in the cards...
How does that settle with everyone? I know many people were swearing it wouldn't happen.
[/quote]If there is exposure for an effect used as largely as pk touch...let's just say there is going to be a lot of hate mail. A large group of people watch NBC.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 24, 2007 08:28PM)
Sadly, the NBC affiliate in Portland decided not to air the show, opting instead to show a Trailblazers’ game. I’m very disappointed and wrote a letter of complaint. It looks like I won’t be able to watch the first installment. Furthermore, I won’t be able to vote. :(


Holly
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 08:29PM)
He said PK T***h and B******k.
I'll google them like all of the other teenagers :)
More later :)
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:32PM)
Holly, I bet someone here can send you a video of the show.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 08:33PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:26, Blindside785 wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:20, WhateverUnique wrote:
Well...wasn't everyone saying nothing would be exsposed on the show? I pecifically heard the words 'PK touch' lisp out of criss angels mouth. Well now I guess we know exposure is in the cards...
How does that settle with everyone? I know many people were swearing it wouldn't happen.
[/quote]If there is exposure for an effect used as largely as pk touch...let's just say there is going to be a lot of hate mail. A large group of people watch NBC.
[/quote]

Well then I say let the hate mail fly...I'm sure he'll be exposing many more. I'm suprised he didn't mention the words 'book test'...
Message: Posted by: Gerry Hennessey (Oct 24, 2007 08:35PM)
Boring for the most part. Pity Luke Jermay didn't choose to participate. Now that would have been interesting.

Hennessey
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 08:36PM)
Before I've mentioned that the magic dealers will be the big winners. Criss Angel just pointed everyone with a computer to all of Mr. B's works.
I'm confused :)
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 24, 2007 08:36PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:29, Slim King wrote:
He said PK T***h and B******k.
I'll google them like all of the other teenagers :)
More later :)
[/quote]

Slim's right. Angel is a nit-wit.

If tonight's program is any example of the competition, it bodes well for Jim C.

- entity
Message: Posted by: mystic1 (Oct 24, 2007 08:37PM)
If the NBC forum is slow it is probably because many people likely tuned out within the first 20 minutes. Boring. Very little remarkable.

Ehud....weak start for the show...forgettable...

Madman...tepid, unfunny would-be comic....no danger or drama...name prediction lost in the mix....Ross the intern (of all people!) had more presence and charisma.

Raven...by far the most dramatic and credible (though I would have liked to have seen larger, more menacing nails).

Gerry....obviously NOT "T H E Mentalist".....poor choice of material...took focus off himself....and crack about lack of applause only called attention to its absence.


Most amazing thing about this show was 2 out of 3 frisbies Ross thew finding their way to one person !
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:43PM)
Jim should use the Outlaw Panther on the show. I am sure he would win that way.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 08:47PM)
Perhaps Gerry will bounce back. I thought Eran did a great job. With Gerry having his own Vegas show, I am sure he will come back well. Jim should do well and Angela I am really excited to see her work. Looks like someone will be doing pulse stop.

As far as PK ******, it will take a little coin I believe for the curious to discover what it is plus he did it a bit different also.

JMO
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:49PM)
I bet Larry Becker is going to start using nail guns now. :)
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Oct 24, 2007 08:50PM)
I think it's kind of an odd show. I agree it was kind of boring. I'm not familiar with the Israeli version, but it seems to me that even if the audience "knows" it's all a trick; mentalism, unlike magic, requires some kind of presentation that real powers might be being used in order for it to play effectively. That assumption is certainly what was behind the little promo's the show did for each performer. But if that's the case, the very process of critiquing the performers undermines this assumption. If you think about it and just consider the odds, Gerry's performance was, at least mathematically, the most astounding. Yet he got dismissed because, yes, it was a little boring, but also because it didn't feel particularly original.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that by critiquing the performers on things other than the impossibility of their feats the show is stripping away the suspension of disbelief required to make mentalism resonate.

I thought it was interesting the Geller for most of his responses said how amazed he was while Angel basically took people to task. And, while I was reallly surprised by the mention of Banacek, it didn't bother me. For anyone other than someone into magic, those words flew by, and he didn't expose the trick -- he just pointed out what it was. How is that different than a magician being introduced as doing "cups and balls" and then doing it. Plenty of people can go to Wikipedia and figure out how that is done.

Like magic, mentalism is really in need of new plots. That's why Darren Brown is so great -- that and his fashioning of a persona that elides and confuses the line between trickery and "real powers." I guess I was surprised that the routines on the premiere episode weren't a little more creative.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 24, 2007 08:53PM)
I was with friends tonight. We gathered for some Chinese food and to watch the show.

They were bored. Cracking jokes throughout the show.

They all left completely uninterested in watching on Halloween.

I'll have to twist some arms....
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Oct 24, 2007 08:56PM)
Alexandre, what was your take on the show?
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 08:58PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:50, bugjack wrote:
"" But if that's the case, the very process of critiquing the performers undermines this assumption. ""
"" And, while I was reallly surprised by the mention of Banacek, it didn't bother me. For anyone other than someone into magic, those words flew by, and he didn't expose the trick -- he just pointed out what it was. ""
[quote]

because those are one in the same. By criss even mentioning those words it give people the ability to disprove what the show is suppose to be about. If everyone at home just Chalks it up to another magic show....it will fall flat like all the rest. Everyone wants to belive....and NBC found a great way to make people wonder...the problem is they also have given them the silver bullet by allowing criss to lisp off at the mouth.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 08:59PM)
I bet David Blaine is at home with tears in his eyes because he was not chosen to be a judge.
Message: Posted by: Oyama (Oct 24, 2007 09:04PM)
Careful bugjack, If you try to use the presentation of "real powers" in your presentation you will get "debunked" or atleast slammed here for it.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:09PM)
My 11 year old picked up from Uri's ESP routine from the start. If you recorded it, watch it again when he puts the card inside the envelope. Power of suggestion, gotta love it;)

All in all most of these performances the performer took a chance of something messing up and I like that. I feel Criss (no matter what you think of him) was pretty candid an right on with his critques.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 24, 2007 09:10PM)
13 STEPS TO BOREDOM

1) "I am THE mentalist - all others are just mentalists" - let me perform an effect that has no context, meaning or point

2) I am Rachel Hunter, why am I here - I am bored. Let me out of here.

3) I am scared little guy - I am being bullied and treated horribly and having my hand shoved into a bear trap... what seemed funny looked mean spirited and poorly controlled... he should have managed me better... like those others...

4) I am Uri - everything is interesting... very interesting... except the Mentalist.

5) I am Criss - in case you didn't know, I've done more magic than anyone before on TV - I need to be amazed or I will be bored - and I will tell you how I am better than you... like even the most excellent Nail Roulette... bah, I did it with a gun... but well..it had some drama... as for the rest of you... boring... by the way... you can find PK Touches, Gimmicked Traps, and book tests at X-488-7788-X.... by the way, did you know that I forgot more magic than anyone knows on this show?

6) Showing the other contestants without explanation of who they are

7) The worlds worst psychological force 28% vs 27% star... c'mon... but the darn thing in POSITION 4 Uri... what the heck... there were about 18 more ways to boost the numbers...

8) Ehud had a good presentation... even a consistant theme... of course he was to be murdered on stage by Criss... plus the sexual inneundo just BOMBED... ouch.

9) Criss looks bored as Rachel Hunter

10) Desperate attempts to boost the shows rating by zooming in on Angela F. - but without explanation... and boy does it look bad that there is only one female in the bunch...

11) Why can't the contestants say to Criss and Uri F*ck you bozos... I'm good!

12) Don't attempt this at home - you might fall asleep for 10000 years

13) JJ and Angela - I'm counting on you two..... I was really hoping they would have done the bios... some drama... etc....


My goodness - this show really was BAD. I mean BAD. The Halloween special better go wild....

It did inspire me to go do more professional performances, however. Not to try to compete as I would never want to have Criss rip me to shreds on TV if he didn't like the cut of my jib... but heck, I think I'll make a TV project... but have a point to the show.

What do I know? Trust me, I know just enough...

JJ - I hope your ghosts watch your back...!!!!

I still am betting AF will be in the final 2.

I am really sad the show went like this...

But I am happy that THE mentalist (as opposed to the other mentalists) was tripped up by his own arrogance.... what happened to audience connection, humility and sharing wonder? Boo.

Pleasant nightmares,

Dr. Spektor
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:12PM)
I am hoping this show will boast the mentalism business if nothing else.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 09:14PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 21:53, ALEXANDRE wrote:
I was with friends tonight. We gathered for some Chinese food and to watch the show.

They were bored. Cracking jokes throughout the show.

They all left completely uninterested in watching on Halloween.

I'll have to twist some arms....
[/quote]

And do you know why they were bored...because they have limited everyones performace to 3 minutes....3 minutes....why because they have to give Uri and criss time to runn thier gums. It would be a far better show if they didn't have either of them. The performances could be long and more drama could be created. 3 minutes is a nightmare amount of time to try and stuff a mentalism/pshycic/paranormal performance.

In 1 hour you saw 4 guys. Not much for 1 hour of TV. and next week you only get 6 for 2 hours....that's only 3 guys per hour with still only 3 minute performances....
lets see 3 minutes X 6 guys = 18 minutes....18 minutes out of a 2 hour show is devoted to guys on stage? ok I know you only get like 45 mintues in an hour with commercials....but that leaves 90 minutes...minus the 18 and we will have 72 minutes of....what next week?
Message: Posted by: JamesBiss (Oct 24, 2007 09:14PM)
Gawd awfully boring!!! (despite some talented performers) A major disappointment...the ratings will be dreadful.

The PRODUCERS should be shot with a nail gun!

My best to all,

James

P.S. The Israeli original, "The Successor" was far superior, and I don't even speak Hebrew!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 24, 2007 09:16PM)
Heheh...good one James! This forum is 1000% more entertaining than the actual show...
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Oct 24, 2007 09:17PM)
That's why I put "knows" in quotations, although maybe I wasn't being clear enough. I'm not suggesting that mentalists pretend to be John Edwards-style psychics, just that mentalism creates a theatrical moment that produces a suspension of disbelief and in that moment is the spectator's enjoyment. It's akin to watching an action film -- do you think about the actor being dangled by wires in front of a green screen or just go with the montage of the filmmaking and the story? So, what felt weird for me was the creation of those moments and then the critiques following so immediately afterwards -- the critiques when they were negative kind of denied whatever entertainment or wonder we might have just received. (And, when they were positive, they seemed fawning and uncritical -- it's a no-win situation.)

<bloackquote>By criss even mentioning those words it give people the ability to disprove what the show is suppose to be about. If everyone at home just Chalks it up to another magic show....it will fall flat like all the rest. Everyone wants to belive....and NBC found a great way to make people wonder...the problem is they also have given them the silver bullet by allowing criss to lisp off at the mouth.</blockquote>

I'm not disagreeing with you on the larger point. I actually kind of go with what you said. I'm just disagreeing that the word "Banacek" had anything to do it. I think it has more to do the structure of the show as I mention above.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 24, 2007 09:18PM)
Keep hoping. Tonight Mentalism looked amateurish and boring.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 24, 2007 09:20PM)
3-5 Minutes:

A) Mind control someone up stage, choose the objects etc. you want them to... then have them go into a pseudotrance and be able to read the minds of others in the audience

B) Stigmata style effects in a bizarre context

C) Communicate mentally with a dog who can do psychic effects of the PK Lick


At least, I'm been able to do all the above - anyone on the show reading this, feel free to do it as well...

The key is originality... its boring because a lot of what was on has been seen before... however, I think a lot of entertainers with original material didn't go on... (except JJ which I think will be the most unique - but waiting to see the other contestants)...

Plus, don't bully anyone... it just looks BAD.
Message: Posted by: magicuncle (Oct 24, 2007 09:21PM)
It needs Criss to watch the playback and critic his own performance. He definitely doesn't fit well.

As for the show, I hope it picks up the pace. I'll watch the Halloween show, but it's hard to imagine regular folks getting into this unless it gets more interesting.
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 24, 2007 09:22PM)
The first problem is that they have Criss a known magician, critiquing (sp?) other performers who supposedly are psychic. Remember in an audiences mind, a magician and mentalist are 2 different things. Magicians do tricks, and mentalists do something else!
When Criss opens his mouth, (and his very presence) suggests that everything is a trick. And noone wants to go to a show with 10 magicians. What you get is a yawner. Kinda like what I saw tonight.
I was very disapointed in what I saw production wise. I do think Ehud was very good, probably the best of the 4. The guy with the nail guns was too...into the camera, and hammy. It was incensere drama. At least that's what I felt. Gellers bit was ok though. He does have some connection beyond the tv screen that the contestants didn't.
I do hope that the other performers can overcome some of these things. I think that Jim and Angela will do very well. As they will be people that the audience can relate and connect with.

Chad
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 09:24PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:17, bugjack wrote:
That's why I put "knows" in quotations, although maybe I wasn't being clear enough. I'm not suggesting that mentalists pretend to be John Edwards-style psychics, just that mentalism creates a theatrical moment that produces a suspension of disbelief and in that moment is the spectator's enjoyment. It's akin to watching an action film -- do you think about the actor being dangled by wires in front of a green screen or just go with the montage of the filmmaking and the story? So, what felt weird for me was the creation of those moments and then the critiques following so immediately afterwards -- the critiques when they were negative kind of denied whatever entertainment or wonder we might have just received. (And, when they were positive, they seemed fawning and uncritical -- it's a no-win situation.)

<bloackquote>By criss even mentioning those words it give people the ability to disprove what the show is suppose to be about. If everyone at home just Chalks it up to another magic show....it will fall flat like all the rest. Everyone wants to belive....and NBC found a great way to make people wonder...the problem is they also have given them the silver bullet by allowing criss to lisp off at the mouth.</blockquote>

I'm not disagreeing with you on the larger point. I actually kind of go with what you said. I'm just disagreeing that the word "Banacek" had anything to do it. I think it has more to do the structure of the show as I mention above.
[/quote]

Yes bugjack, you and I are on the same path here. NBC tells me to believe and then has these two taking all the zing...zest and zow right out the show.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:25PM)
I am curious why the audience is so quiet. Granted its mentalism but one would think there would be at least a more polite applause for Eran at least.

Perhaps its just the sound accoustics in the auditorium.

I think just the atmosphere and huge stage set is enough against one already. I think Jim is use to this type of auditorium which will really help his performance.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 09:32PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:22, Chad Sanborn wrote:
The first problem is that they have Criss a known magician, critiquing (sp?) other performers who supposedly are psychic. Remember in an audiences mind, a magician and mentalist are 2 different things. Magicians do tricks, and mentalists do something else!
When Criss opens his mouth, (and his very presence) suggests that everything is a trick. And noone wants to go to a show with 10 magicians. What you get is a yawner. Kinda like what I saw tonight.
I was very disapointed in what I saw production wise. I do think Ehud was very good, probably the best of the 4. The guy with the nail guns was too...into the camera, and hammy. It was incensere drama. At least that's what I felt. Gellers bit was ok though. He does have some connection beyond the tv screen that the contestants didn't.
I do hope that the other performers can overcome some of these things. I think that Jim and Angela will do very well. As they will be people that the audience can relate and connect with.

Chad
[/quote]

Yeah I thought the same...Ehud was good....until criss knocked him off the block by mentioning PK and Banchekckekcekc. He structured the limited amount of time very well and keep things moving. And the Nail gun thing did have the most suspense....but that 3 minute window is like a ticking time-bomb taking all the crescendo of a performance right out.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 09:40PM)
The audience was not paid enough to cheer too loudly. With only a small amount of time it is difficult to get the viewers "On Your Side".... Little or no time was spent wooing the people who actually MAKE the noise.
And that's another problem...I would have had a mic right on Jim Karols hand...You would have thought that he broke every bone in there! That's the way to play it! But NOOOOOO :)
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 24, 2007 09:40PM)
I found Angel a poor Simon, but Uri makes a good Paula.

Raven almost put me to sleep. I am bored every time I see a performer act like an Edwardian stage performer. I cannot understand why mystery entertainers feel the need to be stiff and over enunciate words on stage. I've found you make a better connection with the audience when you speak to them, not at them.

Angel of course missed the whole performance point of Ehud’s piece. (At least Uri got it.) Then opening his mouth, belittling the guy and attempting to puff himself up, pure crass, insecure idiocy. True colors were revealed. Then Angel missed the entire concept of Jim’s act.

Sad!
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Oct 24, 2007 09:40PM)
I don't imagine there is one performer who turned the show down who now regrets the decision. The format simply can't work for mentalism. There's no time to build audience rapport, no time to create a real character that doesn't appear over the top.

Having Angel there is an abomination. So smug. So know-it-all ("I recognized PK Touches. Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah Nuh!"). So condescending. ("I performed the ultimate Russian roulette with a real gun." At least 3 of the performers are, I think, much better than he is. Who is he to judge??

This show itself is incredibly unoriginal with the mini-biographies, the performers with their "game faces" on, the judging the the performers by people in no position to judge.

All you guys hoping to be on next season...don't hold your breaths.

Bob
Message: Posted by: magicuncle (Oct 24, 2007 09:42PM)
NBC are you listening!?

KRESKIN vs URI

Hit show.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 09:44PM)
Hey Slim,
your right they should have put that shotgun mic closer to Jim K's hand.....and a little farther away from that 5th nail gun....good grief...I heard that from 3000 miles away.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 09:45PM)
Go Jim. The Parson is pulling for you.
Lots of Psi power going your way.

My opinion of Criss and Uri did not change.



Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 24, 2007 09:46PM)
Bob

Much truth there!

I was hoping Jim would put the bear trap where it would fit. But he has too much class. At least 2 of the performers tonight are much better than Angel, and they are all much more creative.

At least none of them yelled, "MindFreak" when they finished.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:48PM)
Didn't Gerry appear on NBC a few years ago with his own show?

Criss is there just to attract his mindfreak audience. Got to be about ratings with Fox thingy.

Some good thoughts here that never occurred to me. I have only been on local TV with 5 minute segments and no live audience so I would be way out of my element on anything like this type of reality series. Material and routine would keep me awake for many nights.

I was surprised they showed the Uri/Johnny Carson piece (the salt shakers) during his mini bio.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 24, 2007 09:49PM)
You search Phenomenon NBC on google and you get a magic shop right on top.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 09:50PM)
Tony Eye,
I rarely disagree with you. BUT, you are being generous with your statement, "at least two."
Every d****d one of them is better at what they do than Angel.
They even did it without camera tricks.

Parson
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:50PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:49, ALEXANDRE wrote:
You search Phenomenon NBC on google and you get a magic shop right on top.
[/quote]

LOL, I needed that:)
Message: Posted by: Chad Sanborn (Oct 24, 2007 09:50PM)
A much better scenario for this show is to pit 4-5 mentalists top. In a 2 hour show down, where each get about 20 of performance time. Then, after all have done their thing, do REAL people, or at least some people who know nothing of the art, judge and the home audience judges. Then you get a return 1 hour show, where you learn the results.
A mentalist is supposed to be superhuman, and by that very nature, unique. To have 10 people against each other is overkill. I mean how many 'special' people can their be? A mentalist is a special person who has a gift that not many others have. Right? Not a gift that can be found on every street corner...
At least Jim will have an edge with his persona. Because of that, I still think he will win.

Chad
Message: Posted by: Gerry Hennessey (Oct 24, 2007 09:52PM)
The highlights of the show were definitely Criss's hair and Rachel Hunter.

Lighting & music were good too.

Hennessey
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 24, 2007 09:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:46, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
At least none of them yelled, "MindFreak" when they finished.
Tony
[/quote]

They should have! At least the sarcasm would have been funny and caused some genuine tension.

- entity
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Oct 24, 2007 09:55PM)
Performing out of the box effects on national TV, what would that guy expect. Am I wrong here, or was the phonebook effect almost right from the box? Jim WILL make this show more interesting, and I think if the show hooked interest on this first one, they will get better.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 09:55PM)
Wife commented about the way Ross took the stage. I said that I did not notice.
I was looking at Rachel.
Sleeping on the couch.
Oh well.
It was worth it.
Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 24, 2007 09:56PM)
Remember, JC has not been on yet. ;)
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 09:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:55, magicmind wrote:
Performing out of the box effects on national TV, what would that guy expect. Am I wrong here, or was the phonebook effect almost right from the box? Jim WILL make this show more interesting, and I think if the show hooked interest on this first one, they will get better.
[/quote]

I am sure Gerry can do much better then this one. It was too long and drawn out (pick a pager number, now which column etc etc) for the time alloted an no climatic ending. He will get a second chance unless all of next week's performers are awesome. Good thing for the next performers though, they can all learn from this night and make necessary changes.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Oct 24, 2007 09:59PM)
Mr. Angel’s partial exposure of Mr. Segev’s routine was not appropriate.

I think the post-effect interviews of contestants can be problematic for dual reality bits. I wonder if the performers knew about that part in advance.

The producers should contact L&L for a proper audience :)
Message: Posted by: Darkfrog (Oct 24, 2007 10:02PM)
At least South Park was good tonight...
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 10:02PM)
Tony,
I like Jim Callahan, but please let's not refer to him as JC.(His ego is big enough already.)

Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 24, 2007 10:04PM)
Looked like Jim Carol wanted to choke Criss. Just that look in Jim's eyes when Criss was doing his critique, priceless.
Message: Posted by: magicmind (Oct 24, 2007 10:04PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:59, Candini wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:55, magicmind wrote:
Performing out of the box effects on national TV, what would that guy expect. Am I wrong here, or was the phonebook effect almost right from the box? Jim WILL make this show more interesting, and I think if the show hooked interest on this first one, they will get better.
[/quote]

I am sure Gerry can do much better then this one. It was too long and drawn out (pick a pager number, now which column etc etc) for the time alloted an no climatic ending. He will get a second chance unless all of next week's performers are awesome. Good thing for the next performers though, they can all learn from this night and make necessary changes.
[/quote]

agreed
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 10:04PM)
So Angel, with his new show coming to Vegas slags a guy with a show already in Vegas...Who'd a thought?
A conflict of interest maybe, but I had to agree with him. You can't win with out of the box stuff!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:56, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Remember, JC has not been on yet. ;)
[/quote]
I don't even see him in this thread.
Message: Posted by: Gerry Hennessey (Oct 24, 2007 10:07PM)
I don't think that the look in Jim's eyes was caused by Criss's critique. More like he was blinded by Criss's bling.

Hennessey
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 10:08PM)
Psychic Slim, where is Jim?

Da poet strikes again.

Parson
Message: Posted by: ted french (Oct 24, 2007 10:10PM)
I thought tonights show was kinda boring because like most mentalism the more complicated a routine is the less entertaining. When you watch Derren or Uri they have very simple routines.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:11PM)
Probably Criss wants to put everyone down to keep them from stealing his job.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 10:13PM)
I bet their is a blitz of activity if not a fight after the show was done. I see criss getting his leg snarled in a wolf trap, a mishandled nail gun...and oh the whollop the Atlanta phone book can do.
Seriously I bet they are all busy as Bee's. We'll hear from someone soon I'm sure.
later
Message: Posted by: darrylasher (Oct 24, 2007 10:14PM)
Are we seriously concerned that Angel said he works with Banachek? Really??? Banachek? They guy whose face and name pop up a dozen times on every Mindfreak show as a "consultant"? I'm all for protecting secrets, but come on.

Oh and the **** that ******* used was the same one that ********** used when he did his ************ routine at ****. Just sayin'.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:16PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 23:10, ted french wrote:
I thought tonights show was kinda boring because like most mentalism the more complicated a routine is the less entertaining.
[/quote]
Com'mon guys, isn't mentalism suppose to be boring.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 10:18PM)
Wow...I just went to the NBC site....virtualy no activity on the forum....the last few post are by AzizalSaqr and he's the moderator right? And that was over an hour ago.....not a good sign for ratings....we'll see if that improves...
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 24, 2007 10:18PM)
"The producers should contact L&L for a proper audience " You can say that again, Elliott! They did have have Rachel in the crowd. I think it would have been awkward to have been the "special guests" chosen for each spectator. They may have well had three assigned seats on stage.

My overview of the whole show...I felt as if it were more magic. I did not leave the show feeling as if I was seeing people with special gifts. I'll agree there is suspense and drama with holding guns of any sort to your body, but is this they way I would demonstrate this art? I hate to say it, but I feel an ordinary metal bending routine would have sparked more curiosity from the audience. I will lean towards the first effect being the closest to what I would expect as an audience member. It left me questioning Until I learned about Criss's relationship with Banachek etc...geez.

The other effects seemed too proppy to me...beartraps, nailguns, phone books. I am really looking forward to Jim's performance. I think being paranormal is the way to take this...I felt like I was watching "Worlds Greatest Magic."

John
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:19PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 10:01, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
They probably will have a better understanding of the term "paranormalist" than "mentalist."
[/quote]
"Paranormalist" was never mentioned on the show, just "mentalist."
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 24, 2007 10:21PM)
Practical Mental Boredom by the rolling in his Grave Theo A.

1) Billet Switches: Now Magicians AND Mentalists can be shunned

2) Publicity Stunts: MINDFREAK!!!!

3) Living or Dead Tests: The best thing for this show is to fade into oblivion quickly - AFTER it launches Jim's and Angela's careers to new heights

4) Magic Slates Smash over Heads: Behold how to treat audiences like crap.... except Ehud... he actually tried... but Criss said... MINDFREEEAAKKKKK

5) Mental Card Magic: watching this show - I was hoping someone would do the 21 card trick to spice things up
.....

(Coming soon: Mind Myth and Boredom.... and Mind and Magic of Boredom.... and the DVD set Mind Mysteries Reduced to Boring Dreck III)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2007 10:22PM)
There were only about 50 guys reading it when I was there. Probably Café members :)
We've got more than twice as many browsers.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 10:24PM)
Someone on the NBC message board just asked AzizalSaqr about the exact name and inventor of an effect being mentions by criss. AzizalSaqr claimed to not have known the reference....isn't he a magician? Even if you never heard of the exact effect when you here PK in the same sentance you know it's something.

I bet all 10 contestants are ****ed about that. They messed up. ( NBC, criss,) They are now the equivalent of FOX for pulling that crap years back...the masked magician... sad.
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 24, 2007 10:27PM)
5) Mental Card Magic: watching this show - I was hoping someone would do the 21 card trick to spice things up

That is funny :)
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Oct 24, 2007 10:27PM)
Not for a minute did I believe that trap hurt. That was comedy club stuff. He'da been better off with the 5 traps thing.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:27PM)
I thought I saw Randi in the audience.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 24, 2007 10:29PM)
Azizsaqr..."Banacheck? Who dat?... y'mean that George Peppard guy from A team? Yeah yeah... the PK touches... in an episode of A Team he uses his mental might to deactivate a bomb or something..."

"Annemann? Whodat?.... oh yeah... he was that guy... who did that thing or something...."

"Criss Angel? Who dat.... huh... oh yeah... I heard of him once in Marakesh... what...?"

"Masked Magician... NO WAY! UNMASKED MENTALISTS!!!!...."

Criss removes his facemask... it is THE AMAZING RANDI!!!!

Uri: "Curse you Randy....."

Randi: "It is all over for you now...."

Uri: "If you strike me down now... I shall just become stronger...."

Rachel Huner: YAWWWWWWWN....
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 24, 2007 10:30PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 23:14, darrylasher wrote:
Are we seriously concerned that Angel said he works with Banachek? Really??? Banachek? They guy whose face and name pop up a dozen times on every Mindfreak show as a "consultant"? I'm all for protecting secrets, but come on.
[/quote]

The concern wasn't the mention of Banachek's name. It was the mention of the words "PK TOUCH routine" and "Banachek" together, just after the touch routine performed. Angel might as well have supplied an URL directing viewers to an internet site where they might buy the routine. Extremely unprofessional.

Bob was correct, earlier. Angel is an abomination as part of this program.

- entity
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 24, 2007 10:31PM)
Alexandre would have likely cleaned the house with his "test conditions" pen falling. Of course Criss would likely talk about Banachek and his connection to the entirety. He was overly "me, me, me."
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 10:34PM)
I really hope that someone taped it so all the performers can watch it for themselves...You know what I mean? They didn't see what we saw....like Rachel looking like she needed a stiff drink at the begining. I think the other 6 were sitting out in the audience....right? or were they back stage in the green room watching. Either way They need to see and feel what we saw on the TV for themselves. I don't know how many of you have ever been to a studio audience taping of a show but it feels nothing like what it does watching it on TV.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 24, 2007 10:35PM)
Magic performers critiquing other magic performers in front of lay folk never sounded like a good idea to me.

In this venue...if someone truly performs outside the box in a phenomenal way it will always pale to some past "ultimate" Criss Angel illusion from Mindsleep.

Jim/ J ack, Angela and rest, I'm rooting for you all...but as Admiral Ackbar and Jim Karol once said..."It's a trap!"
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 24, 2007 10:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 23:30, entity wrote:
It was the mention of the words "PK TOUCH routine" and "Banachek" together, just after the touch routine performed. Angel might as well have supplied an URL directing viewers to an internet site where they might buy the routine. Extremely unprofessional.

- entity
[/quote]

This may be very true. Do a search for Pk Touch on google and you get a sponsored ad from Ellusionist that seems mighty suspicious. LOL

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=pk+touch&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Shane Baker (Oct 24, 2007 10:39PM)
Dr Spektor: 21 card trick, lol. you got that right.

Overall the show seemed just... unfortunate: routines cut to bare bones with very little chance for the performers to show off personality (I guess that's what the bio intros were for -- better they should have had that time to develop their routines I think). In this sense, I think that Jim Carol did a good job, with his Madman approach -- I actually saw a character.

I don't know the performers or their careers, but I wonder how much television they've all done. Perhaps that's part of the problem, because a lot of stage material just loses its vitality when transferred "as is" to the screen.

On the bright side, exposure may not be such a great concern, because it barely even held MY interest. Yes, I'll have to twist my own arm to watch the Halloween episode.

Geller's effect was boring, but he played parts of it well, anyway. Angel I'd not watched before, nor would I seek him out, based on what I just saw.

Unfortunate...
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 10:40PM)
Tim Drake,
Are you suggesting that someone is trying to make money by selling magic secrets to the public?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Terry Holley (Oct 24, 2007 10:43PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 22:40, Bob Baker wrote:
The format simply can't work for mentalism. There's no time to build audience rapport, no time to create a real character that doesn't appear over the top.
[/quote]

Bob:

I think Maven and Kreskin could pull this off. What say ye?

Terry
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 10:46PM)
Terry,
Kreskin spends a looooong time building rapport.
I think that he would have a tough time.
(But I would like to see it.)
Could you imagine that little dip critiquing Kreskin?
He would be eaten alive.
Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 10:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 23:29, Dr Spektor wrote:
Azizsaqr..."Banacheck? Who dat?... y'mean that George Peppard guy from A team? Yeah yeah... the PK touches... in an episode of A Team he uses his mental might to deactivate a bomb or something..."

"Annemann? Whodat?.... oh yeah... he was that guy... who did that thing or something...."

"Criss Angel? Who dat.... huh... oh yeah... I heard of him once in Marakesh... what...?"

"Masked Magician... NO WAY! UNMASKED MENTALISTS!!!!...."

Criss removes his facemask... it is THE AMAZING RANDI!!!!

Uri: "Curse you Randy....."

Randi: "It is all over for you now...."

Uri: "If you strike me down now... I shall just become stronger...."

Rachel Huner: YAWWWWWWWN....
[/quote]

Dr., I did not know you spoke in tounges. Stop by church when you can. :)
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 24, 2007 10:50PM)
Word is that Kreskin was courted by NBC to be a part of this program. He politely declined. A very wise man.

- entity
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 24, 2007 10:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-24 23:40, Parson Smith wrote:
Tim Drake,
Are you suggesting that someone is trying to make money by selling magic secrets to the public?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Peace,
Parson
[/quote]

LOL Parson,

My interest was peaked when Ellusionist added " PK Touch" to their google adwords in an ad labeled "Learn Phenomenon Secrets" Its like they suspected a bunch of searchs for that term to hit google. The ad used to link to a page promoting the show and showing how Ellusionist supplied the shows contestants with gift bags. Its now gone and comes up 404. Ooooohh Errie...LOL

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (Oct 24, 2007 10:56PM)
I watched and saw exactly what I expected which was 1 hour of my life that I'll never get back. I could say more but I've promised some Café' members that I would be on my best behavior...well...for today at least! I won't watch again!
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 10:58PM)
Hey Christopher,

Wifey still talks about your card in balloon.
You could have probably won with that.

Maybe next time.

Peace,
Parson

Oh yes, you need to watch and support Jim/J ack.
Message: Posted by: rick727 (Oct 24, 2007 10:59PM)
I was unable to watch the show because I was flying from Albuquerque to Austin. It sounds like I didn't miss much. I did record it on my DVR so I can watch it over the weekend. The good news is that I can fast forward through the commercials so I will only be wasting about 46 minutes of my life :)

Maybe I should have applied. I do a GREAT version of the Famous 21 Card Trick :). Maybe I should write an e-book (LOL).

-Rick
Message: Posted by: Tod Todson (Oct 24, 2007 10:59PM)
Shame, shame, shame on Criss Angel.
Tonight I lost professional respect for him.

-Tod Torrent
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 24, 2007 11:08PM)
Tod, we all gotta get old sometime.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 24, 2007 11:15PM)
Ellusionist almost seals the deal...When was that posted? I mean was it something they modified after/during the show or was it there days ago. Either way.

I'm glad everyone here , and let's all hope that all the guys on the show, are mad at what criss did. Doing what I do for a living I get people all the time inquiring about having me create/build something for them. Sometimes these are gag effects for TV or film. They ask me about the cost and then they ask me about how I plan to build whatever it might be...like materials, ect....I don't even get into it with them. Just me mentioning materials can often lead them to figuring it out on their own. Nope...I display an online portfolio and if I say I can make it then I can. If I turn down the job then I couldn't.....but I've never done that.

I think everyone here needs to log into the NBC site and rant on criss....seriously....flood NBC's board with messages....oh but because its a message board and not a forum....it's screened by Aziar or what ever that dudes name is....
Message: Posted by: Gianni (Oct 24, 2007 11:21PM)
Well, I'll chime in.

1) I can't believe all the people on this forum who thought the effects were boring. I thought the performers did a GREAT job. The PK touch routine was the best I've ever seen ANYONE perform it.

2)The BIG letdown was Criss Angel. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING IN ENCOURAGING HIM TO GIVE REVIEWS? For example, after what I felt was an exhilarating PK routine, Angel drags everyone down with a critique that suggests this was a routine performance of someone else's work. For anyone who was truly amazed - and I was - having Criss Angel judge the performance like a juggling act just crushed my heart. It brought me down. It also dampened anyone who was enthusiastic about what they had just seen. What a terrible program structure: in magic you want to draw in every spectator you can and give them a sense of wonder. If you succeed, the LAST thing you want is a twerp with ostensible credentials critiquing you publicly about what you've done. The public should not be privy to a magic critique! The only result to that is that you risk losing anyone's wonder that you may have cultivated. TERRIBLE SHOW FORMAT. Just let the performers perform and let the audience vote. This is NOT Dancing with the Stars. The technical aspects of magic performances are NOT for public consumption.

(Oh, and as to Rachel Hunter appearing bored, she's always bored. On anything you see her in. I've never seen a display of spirit in the woman. A prime example of how far you can go with looks alone.)

Gianni
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Oct 24, 2007 11:25PM)
I really do not know what to think about this. I think time will tell whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. It seems slightly rash to judge the effect of a show so soon after its airing. I think we will see the real impact (or non-impact) as the show progresses.

Having said that - I feel everything I felt about the concept of the show has been proven to me. I do not see why ANY performer would want to be treated as a "performing monkey" with no time to establish a personality.

It strikes me that with mentalism more than anything else the performance is a personality driven art. If we look in the past it was never the "tricks" that created well known performers but always the power of their personality.

This show format robs the performers the chance to establish themselves as personalities. Without the personality of the performer driving the performance we are seeing nothing more than mentalism being "demonstrated" and not being "presented" there is a big difference. We may as well be putting dealer video demonstrations up there.

One thing I did find interesting was seeing Gellers final prediction - using a well known recently marketed magic prop. I wonder if Geller is not "tipping his hat" to the magicians in the hope that we might adopt him as "one of us" thus helping prevent potential issues he faced with the original show here in the USA.

As for Criss Angel - I can not say I am shocked. In my opinion CA is the only one who stands to gain from this. CA gets the chance to compare material he has performed in the past to what we are seeing in a TOTALLY different situation. CA has total control over his performance space. We are seeing performers with their space being handed to them - hence the high level of "real world" material we saw here and not the normal TV style material. In comparing his own material to the material on this show CA instantly gets the same assumed "fair conditions" credit that the performers on this show are working with. The idea that CA performs under the same situations makes this a smart move for him. However the performers on the show will never be able to compare their material in the same light as they are working under TOTALLY different situations and conditions. I hope this makes sense and is not just me talking myself around in circles.

I wonder if after this it might pay off for us to stop using the term "Mentalist." It has been said by many before that magic suffers from those who have performed it badly in the past. Often lay people only see one magician in their life. If this magician is bad (or as in the case with this NBC show simply not great) that spectator will now carry a negative conceptual memory of what "magic" is.

I wonder if we are going to find ourselves in the same spot with the word "mentalist" will this show raise the profile of the definition to the point where we might want to no longer be known as mentalists as the definition itself may do our art form a disservice rather than accurately convey what it really is about.

This issue of definition is very bothersome to me.

I really do not see anyone becoming a "star" from this. The performers simply do not have the time to connect with the audience to become the star. Music is different - people can connect with song lyrics in far shorter time frames than they ever could with a mentalism performance. I do not see a Kelly Clarkson of mentalism coming from this show. On top of this the judges will always remain those dominant. Even with the other shows of this nature (different skill sets but same format) the judges are the most "famous" people on the show. Mainly I think this is due to the fact that we as the viewer have far longer to establish a connection with the judges (whether it be love or hate) and have further time to invest in the "drama" that unfolds between them with disagreements and so fourth. The judges are the personality driven aspect of the show - not the performers. This to me creates an impossible loop where the performers will constantly be relegated to second spot>

With that said - I am often wrong much more than I am right with my predictions (especially if they are not baked in loafs of bread or in a big old chest) and could be proven wrong with this show format.

I think the best thing we can do is present a collected front in the face of potential harm to the art form we all love. I really hope we do not create an issue as was created with the "masked magician" shows years back. In screaming about something we only bring more attention to it. The best thing we can all do is to continue to support one another's artistic performance and exploration in the hope that together we can help one another present mentalism that is AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE. The more mentalists that are performing GREAT MENTALISM the better it is for all of us. Equally the more of us that are out there do what we do as well as we can do it - the fewer people will begin to dislike "mentalists" because of this show.

Well that's my knee jerk response. I do not often post such feelings on open forums (I do not often post things like this anywhere in truth) it just seemed that right now a community the size of the magic Café could really make a difference to what might happen as a backlash from this show. I hope as a community of mentalists we can all whether our way thru the storm and ensure that mentalism as an art form comes out on top.

Luke Jermay.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 24, 2007 11:31PM)
That was beautiful Luke!
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 24, 2007 11:32PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 00:21, Gianni wrote:
Well, I'll chime in.

1) I can't believe all the people on this forum who thought the effects were boring. I thought the performers did a GREAT job. The PK touch routine was the best I've ever seen ANYONE perform it.

TERRIBLE SHOW FORMAT.

Gianni
[/quote]

Gianni,

You make a good point. Lets not jump on the performers. The performances were good but the "celebrity" dressing made it seem so fake and plastic. Its like when you appear on a television show and the hosts have to be "on" and toss in jokes in the middle or your routine. They ruin it. Its your routine and has its own flow. We don't need their help. The whole Carmen Electra thing as well as the other celebs ruined it for me. These guys are pros and could have worked better with real people from the audience. I also got the impression they were all under very tight time restraints as the show was live.

Uri... totally ruined it for me. That annoying stare he does looks like he needs an emergency bathroom break. At the end when the star is revealed he hollers..." Yes.... America got it!" because 28 percent picked the star. That may be true but 72 percent got something else..LOL

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (Oct 24, 2007 11:33PM)
Aren't you associated with Criss Angel Luke?


Anyway, as for the show. I found it to be mildly entertaining. I hope the next set of hopefulls is better though. Had I wanted to waste time to vote though, I would have picked the Russian Roullette fella.

We shall see what happens next week.
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Oct 24, 2007 11:34PM)
I have worked with CA in the past but that came to an end at the finish of the 2nd season of Mind Freak. I have no link to CA at all anymore personal or professional. Nor to this NBC show.

L.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 24, 2007 11:37PM)
Luke,
The performers did a good job.
A little tale.

The VERY BEST mentalism effect I have ever seen was in Nov. 2006.
A spectator was asked to imagine a keyboard and touch two keys.
The mentalist mentally "forced" him to touch the keys that he had previously selected.
Had I not seen the personality of the performer, it would not have been so great.
That is what we are dealing with here, plus the attitude and snarkiness of Angel.

Parson
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Oct 24, 2007 11:44PM)
Parson - I am amazed that you would have remembered that idea. In truth I have not performed that "bit" for a long time and had forgotten about the "computer keys" thing. I might have to dig that back out.

I am not attacking the performers on this show at all. Hell most of them are friends - I do however question their judgement about appearing on the show. The sad truth as I see it is that most of the performers are BETTER than the show. However they are robbed the chance to show how good they are because the show format is not GOOD ENOUGH for them. I hope that makes sense.

CA will I am sure do better in the future. Whatever we think about him as a magician he does try to do the best he can for magic. Sometimes we disagree on what that might be however he does love magic as much as us. Even if at times it is hard to see. I will stop any comments about CA on the show as it is not useful however I have faith that he will step up to the plate with a higher level of understanding in connection with his role on the show. At least I hope he will.

I really do wish the performers the very best of luck (and in fact have been helping one or two in small ways when I can) as I want all of them to be GREAT. I want every single performer on this show to be the star. I want every single performer to do great material that peaks the publics interest into mentalism. I just fear that despite their best effort and hopes the show may not allow them to shine as brightly as we all know they could.

L.
Message: Posted by: Magic Spank (Oct 24, 2007 11:48PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 00:25, Ramsay wrote:

One thing I did find interesting was seeing Gellers final prediction - using a well known recently marketed magic prop. I wonder if Geller is not "tipping his hat" to the magicians in the hope that we might adopt him as "one of us" thus helping prevent potential issues he faced with the original show here in the USA.
[/quote]


I think he fooled you Luke.

Were you looking directly into his eyes? If so, what exactly did you see?
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 24, 2007 11:55PM)
I read Luke Jermay's longer post above..read it again..and again.Mr. Jermay,I agree with at least 99% of what you wrote.Well stated!

I commend all the performers participating,and wish them all the best.I do have a favorite...but I will not say because I am actually turned off by the competitive [IDOL] nature of the whole thing.

Rich
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (Oct 24, 2007 11:58PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 00:34, Ramsay wrote:
I have worked with CA in the past but that came to an end at the finish of the 2nd season of Mind Freak. I have no link to CA at all anymore personal or professional. Nor to this NBC show.

L.
[/quote]

Thank you for addressing that and not ignoring it. I will not ask why as that is your business and not mine.
Message: Posted by: eSamuels (Oct 25, 2007 12:01AM)
As has been suggested in this thread, the show clearly has fatal design flaws.

This may be a stretch, but I couldn't help but think a better show might be an American Idol 'model' judging panel critiquing a group of religious clerics on their style, presentation, and source material.

In my mind, this show's format was that much of a mess - specifically the completely narcissistic, irrelevant (out of context for the actual audience), and worthless critiques.

Allow me to make a bold prediction, without the use of a nail writer, envelope switch, or any other marketed gimmick.....here we go......Phenomenon's ratings will begin badly (dead last for the time slot) and only get worse as the series moves forward.

Absolutely no disrespect intended towards the 10 performers on the show, but Phenomenon is posed to become a cautionary tale used to scare TV executives' children at bedtime, for years to come.
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Oct 25, 2007 12:03AM)
Magic Spank -

I did indeed slip into a trance like state much like falling asleep with my eyes becoming heavier and heavier every time Uri graced the screen. Whether this was by design or by chance I am unsure nonetheless I did indeed stare into his eyes.

I am amazed by the choice of prop especially considering how many other more natural options were available. It seems that his choice to use a prop so linked to magic and magicians methods would have to be a choice. Hence my wondering if he was doing so to send a message out to the magicians watching.

I wonder what we might see next from Uri? Mental Epic?

PaleoMagi - Thanks its just what I felt from the bottom of my heart at the end of the show. I am pleased it connected with you.

Magikrn - No problem.

L.
Message: Posted by: Magic Spank (Oct 25, 2007 12:10AM)
He didn't use the prop you're suspecting.

I'll email you.
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 25, 2007 12:11AM)
Ratings were horrible from what Im being told out of the studios. don't see this lasting much longer.


How in the heck does Criss Angel sit there and critique people when that idiot cant perform a thing without camera tricks. Sick Sick Sick... I had a hard time watching the show seeing that fool act as if he had credibility to speak!

Id give everything I own for the opportunity to have Criss, on television, critique me. I would say to him what every magician in the world has been dying to say..... "You, Criss Angel, critiquing me is like Michael Vick critiquing a premiere dog show! Come back and try again when you can perform sponge balls without the aid of stooges and camera effects!"
Message: Posted by: lostpoet (Oct 25, 2007 12:11AM)
The Show was nothing Phenomenal but most TV isn’t for me. It was nice to see some performances from people who share the same craft. There was nothing mind blowing but perhaps to a layman, who knows? I agree with the whole time cap thing, a Mentalist has to establish himself.

As far as the performances I have to say I liked the Israel dude. That was a nice Routine. He’s caused me to look further into my routine.

I thought Raven’s roulette routine was the most exciting though. It put more people on the edge of their seat.

I got a laugh out of Gerry separating himself and then getting knocked by both Angel and Geller.

I look forward to seeing Jim and the others next week, good luck to you…
Message: Posted by: mrunge (Oct 25, 2007 12:24AM)
Criss Angel has never impressed me to start with. Although he can be entertaining, sometimes (not much), he is more nothing, than something. To me, he's a fraud and a hack and can't do anything without camera tricks to help him out.

But, on the other hand, he does (somehow) have his own television show. He's got to know someone.

Just my opinion. Mark.
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (Oct 25, 2007 12:31AM)
He also has a very good stage show that he got his fame from. I believe that is why they want him critiquing these acts. He knows how to put on a good performance, and he is critiquing performances.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 12:42AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 00:25, Ramsay wrote:
***
It strikes me that with mentalism more than anything else the performance is a personality driven art. If we look in the past it was never the "tricks" that created well known performers but always the power of their personality.

This show format robs the performers the chance to establish themselves as personalities. Without the personality of the performer driving the performance we are seeing nothing more than mentalism being "demonstrated" and not being "presented" there is a big difference. We may as well be putting dealer video demonstrations up there.
***
The judges are the personality driven aspect of the show - not the performers. This to me creates an impossible loop where the performers will constantly be relegated to second spot>
***
The best thing we can all do is to continue to support one another's artistic performance and exploration in the hope that together we can help one another present mentalism that is AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE. The more mentalists that are performing GREAT MENTALISM the better it is for all of us. Equally the more of us that are out there do what we do as well as we can do it - the fewer people will begin to dislike "mentalists" because of this show.
***
I hope as a community of mentalists we can all whether our way thru the storm and ensure that mentalism as an art form comes out on top.

Luke Jermay.
[/quote]

I thought the salient points of your post should be repeated - and as someone who chose to audition, [i]realizing[/i] the limitations placed on my performance by the format of "three effects in 9-15 minutes" - I found myself in the exact bind you have expressed.

One good thing that came of it for me was the focus it forced on me. I found myself having to streamline the effects to give myself more time for showmanship. I am curious to see how the remaining contestants will handle this bind.

All the Best,
Arnon
Message: Posted by: eSamuels (Oct 25, 2007 12:47AM)
But the entire concept of having these performers critiqued is paradoxical to the show's theme!

Further, being successful at a performance art does not automatically ensure you have the skills to be a useful critic of another's work. Angel's comment about being a harsher judge of himself than he would be of any other performer is pure rubbish. His arrogance, dipping into narcissism, is only scarce inches away from Donald Trump - who possesses that scariest of minsets that being highly successful at one thing, gives you license to offer opinions on things about which you know nothing of substance.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Oct 25, 2007 12:51AM)
If mentalism is about believability, Ehud gets this one, in my book.
Message: Posted by: JohnCressman (Oct 25, 2007 01:06AM)
If nothing else, I'm hoping that this will bring more attention to mentalism in general and since I am the ONLY mentalist in my area in the phone book, that I will get some bookings from it... hehe. =)
Message: Posted by: nostrings (Oct 25, 2007 01:07AM)
OK, Question, HAS ANYONE HAD A LAYMEN FRIEND COMMENT ON THE SHOW????

I think that's what we really need to here, Although I agree with most that the performers were good, the show format may not work out in the end.


thanks

Adam
Message: Posted by: kammagic (Oct 25, 2007 01:15AM)
Watched the show and I will watch again. My only problem was that magicians should not critique other magicians. The Judges should be layman then the show would be fun to watch. I have never liked Chris Angels personality. This show will be a nice ego trip for him. I will watch just to see the acts as performances and I won't be interested in the competition aspect of the show. Chris is putting down performances that would thrill a lay audience. He is hurting the art more then helping. Chris sat there like "Good luck fooling me. I am the great Chris Angel I know everything there is to know about magic."

Uri on the other hand was a class act. Uri has been raked over the coals in the past but never let it bother him. You can definitely see that he is a seasoned performer and knows what lay audiences want.

Chris may have "Jumped the shark" with this show.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 01:27AM)
Kammagic,

I agree with you that Uri comported himself very well for the premier. In addition, rather than avoiding the Carson videotape, he intentionally had a short clip of it played with neutralizing commentary and effect. He has used Phenomenon to his benefit, thus far.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Oct 25, 2007 01:31AM)
Very lukewarm – I am somewhat disappointed. I didn’t like how Criss felt obligated to shoot down the talent and blame the NBC producers that he has to be “Brutally honest”.

I also sat up in my chair when Criss used a “Magic” buzzword. (PK anyone?)

Was it only me or did the body language of Uri and Criss just say – We hate each other – We don’t want to be here? (Rachel Hunter pretty much sent the latter message).

The 3rd act, in my opinion, was the best of the hour and Criss had no problem but to elude to his accomplishments. “Yeah – that was good, but not as good as me.”

I have a large show Thursday night at the Screen Writers Expo in Los Angeles. (I need to find a bear trap, 6 nails guns and a Playboy playmate quick!)
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Oct 25, 2007 01:43AM)
What the ****!?!

I googled “PK Touch” and got Ellusionist’s website. Who are these guys kidding? They're acting like they started the “Phenomonon”

What really bothers me is that they have a headline, “Learn Pheonomen Secrets” What's really disappointing is that Mr. Criss Angel told America what keywords to google on National Television!

[quote]• Learn Phenomenon Secrets
Mentalism Training DVDs & Tricks See Demos. Fast Shipping. Order Now
http://www.Ellusionist.com/Phenomenon[/quote]
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 25, 2007 01:44AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 02:31, DerZauberer wrote:
The 3rd act, in my opinion, was the best of the hour and Criss had no problem but to elude to his accomplishments. “Yeah – that was good, but not as good as me.”

[/quote]

This made me see red!! When Criss said that HIS Russian Roulette was, in effect, better and more dangerous, I wanted to choke him through the TV screen. Now THERE'S a pk effect, eh? Or is it "remote viewing"? In either case, I don't know the exact MO of either Criss' or Eran's effects, but I am ***ed sure Criss takes a lot more safety precautions in his version. A good friend of ours who is doing the show, said the staff was mortified in rehearsal when Eran did a run-through of the nail gun piece. Criss has to come down off his high horse. I do feel, however, that Uri is being very respectful not only of the contestants, but of the art, as well.
Message: Posted by: et (Oct 25, 2007 01:49AM)
I watched the show with 3 laymen friends. As expected, they hated it, thought it was painful to watch and were laughing throughout.

As previously mentioned the show is quite flawed. Not only because they are given such limited time to perform a mentalism piece (which doesn't make sense, no connection possible), and not only because of the judges voting. The whole intro to each sequence and the performers and judges were so canned it was painful. I think this is why my friends and myself disliked the show so much.

The whole thing was ridiculous. The intros were nicely filmed, but the stories and over-the-topness, please, that is just ridiculous and comedic. Again, performing live, on camera and in front of a stage audience at the same time is difficult, especially for people not used to appearing on camera. There is a reason David Letterman, Jon Stewart, Jay Leno, etc, are famous and have nightly shows. They have been trained in this regard and it shows.

I am not going to bash the performers, I thought they did an adequate job considering the situation they were thrown in, but unfortunately for them, my lay friends who don't realize that it takes more than 3 minutes to build rapport and for that to work, don't understand that. The mentalism looks bland, unbelievable and their acting very fake.

I found the show more funny to watch than anything, and only having 4 performers in an hour is mindboggling. They only did one effect each (all of which were not overly impressive), and then there was half an hour of introductions and the judges talking.

And Uri Gellar's piece, please. Not only did the effect not work out at all (28%, are you kidding me???), but it was a 5 minute piece of atrocious acting. I can now see why there haven't been any American Idol type competions with magic or mentalism, because honestly, most of us (and I am sure I am among these people), don't play well to the TV audience in these situations with a studio audience. I thought all of the performances would have been better if I was seeing them live, and they weren't worried about the whole TV thing, but watching on TV, the acting (again, I have a feeling NBC requested this), was honestly laughable.

I think it is clear that this style of show does not work, and Uri Gellar and Criss Angel are painful as judges to watch. Honestly, if people think these mentalists played well for the camera, I suggest looking at top-notch actors and actresses. I am sure each of these performers are extroadinary in their live settings, and their more natural environments, but it looked like a B-Rate movie performance.

I apologize if this sounds harsh, but I say the same thing for films and movies with actors who act the same way in those. Do you think Denzel Washington, or Russel Crowe, or Ian MacAllen would put on a powerful dramatic performance like that?

I wish these performers the best of luck and they are certainly more talented than me, but the show now appears to be doomed to failure because the format and the setup were so ridiculous it was comedic. My lay friends were s***-talking the whole time, and it was boring, boring, boring. This show is going to be lucky to make it through all six weeks.

I wish there were more shows like Derren Brown's Mind Control. Best wishes to all the contenstants and I apologize that you guys got screwed by NBC.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 01:59AM)
Gabe or someone in the industry - Is it true that the show will [b]HAVE[/b] to last to the bitter end, since a prize of $250,000 has been promised, and NBC has committed itself?
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Oct 25, 2007 02:27AM)
WOW.... that was the most amazing display of psychic powers I have ever seen - did chris bring his stooges? - Give me a break, was that for real???
I was disappointed to say the least, but in a way glad because that show was so boring hopefully no-one will tune in next week, yawn... it being Halloween, I don't think they will.
There are many reasons why I don't like Cris Gangel and this just adds one more to the list. He's worse than the masked magician with all his exposure of our methods strewn across cyber-space. Terrible haircut, jewelry, accent and persona. I need to go shower... yuck...
The performers, well their performances speak for themselves I think, and you guys can back them up with all the excuses you want but... The performances still speak for themselves.

Ehud - Nice touch routine.

Jim Carol - The jackass boys have already done this one - for real - and the psychic revelation just didn't fit, it was silly.

Eran Raven - reminded me I had a shelf to put up.

T H E Mentalist - LOL... This just looked rigged and set up from the beggining, I actually had high hopes for this guy, he looked the part, but alas, yawn...

Look forward to next week though, I know it will be better... well it can't be any worse... can it???

I too feel like a fool now for telling everyone to watch it, I will see tomorrow what they thought of the show, those who could tear themselves away from 'kid nation' I Tvoed it anyway...
Message: Posted by: kammagic (Oct 25, 2007 03:05AM)
I am looking forward to Guy Bavli and Angela Funovits to perform next week. It will be interesting to see how harsh Chris is on a female.


Angela Funovits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00yi2kJDjOk
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Oct 25, 2007 03:56AM)
[quote]
Angela Funovits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00yi2kJDjOk
[/quote]
Now isn't that the secret fantasy of every card worker? ;)


I watched the show and thought the whole time: Common Criss... don't try to come by as the master of masters. Too much for me.
Uri was engaging, professional and nice. The experiment didn't really work but allright, it was the first episode.

Poor Gerry, he's in the business for years now and has to hear from a magician like Angel what mentalism is all about.
I don't even want to think about what Criss will tell Mr. Callahan, especially because of the claims Callahan makes.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's just mho.
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Oct 25, 2007 04:36AM)
Does anybody if there is anywhere you can see the episode on the web yet?


thanks

Aidan :)
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 25, 2007 04:54AM)
Eran should have said back to Criss after his 'my routine is better' remark:
- ' Yes, but my routine is performed LIVE with no video editing and stooges involved, B*tch'
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Oct 25, 2007 05:14AM)
It started well by the looks of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Mc55P1i9g
Message: Posted by: Roy (Oct 25, 2007 05:33AM)
Funny!
Message: Posted by: Waters (Oct 25, 2007 06:05AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 02:44, gabelson wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 02:31, DerZauberer wrote:
The 3rd act, in my opinion, was the best of the hour and Criss had no problem but to elude to his accomplishments. “Yeah – that was good, but not as good as me.”

[/quote]

This made me see red!! When Criss said that HIS Russian Roulette was, in effect, better and more dangerous, I wanted to choke him through the TV screen. Now THERE'S a pk effect, eh? Or is it "remote viewing"? In either case, I don't know the exact MO of either Criss' or Eran's effects, but I am ***ed sure Criss takes a lot more safety precautions in his version. A good friend of ours who is doing the show, said the staff was mortified in rehearsal when Eran did a run-through of the nail gun piece. Criss has to come down off his high horse. I do feel, however, that Uri is being very respectful not only of the contestants, but of the art, as well.
[/quote]

I agree! I nearly gagged when Criss said, "I performed the ""ultimate"" version of this". Criss may have some humility but he keeps it hidden well.

Sean
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Oct 25, 2007 06:07AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 06:14, salsa_dancer wrote:
It started well by the looks of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Mc55P1i9g
[/quote]


lol :)
Message: Posted by: cgscpa (Oct 25, 2007 06:24AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 05:36, fishwasher wrote:
Does anybody if there is anywhere you can see the episode on the web yet?
Aidan :)
[/quote]

It's not up yet, but it should be available here soon:

http://tinyurl.com/3xueh9
Message: Posted by: fishwasher (Oct 25, 2007 06:47AM)
Thanks :)
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 25, 2007 07:10AM)
Im a little confused, we voted last night. So, will one be voted off next week after tallying last nights votes?
Message: Posted by: ChuckHickok (Oct 25, 2007 07:21AM)
My personal opinion - It is very difficult to perform entertaining mentalism on TV. This show is demonstrates this viewpoint.

One element of a good mentalism act is a unifying theme to connect the routines and maintain the audience's interest. There was no unifying theme ... nothing to connect one contestant to the others. Just four random routines that were "average" in their impact.

Another important element of entertaining mentalism is displaying a likable personality. None of the contestants had the time to connect with their audience. Very sterile.

I would love to know why Geller disliked Gerry so much. There must be a good "back-story". Anyone have info on this. Gerry looked very uncomfortable for a person with his years of experience.

The Russian Roulette routine was the best television ... but from my perspective it was more of a "stunt" more than classic mentalism. This performer will move on ... but can he do more? Again, one of the judges does stunts as well as mentalism.

I would put my money on the show not making it to the end of the series.

Will it help or hurt mentalism overall? I don't know ... but I suspect the series will be quickly forgotten by the general public.

Chuck
Message: Posted by: Hill (Oct 25, 2007 07:38AM)
Perphaps this has been discussed but a couple of things strike me as interesting;

1. Uri is frequently referred to as a mentalist
2. Angel claims he will expose anyone who claims to have genuine powers. does that include uri?

Apologies if this has been discussed - this thread is so darn long now.
Message: Posted by: gaafman (Oct 25, 2007 07:42AM)
I have just seen the show and Like the fact that it is live and no camera edits etc. Wonder how laypeople think of the show. After all the TV mentalism they have seen before, some of the acts might be too "simple" in their eyes.

I do agree with RickDangerous in the way Criss was judging some of the performers. That was quite harsh, although I do agree with the general judgement of Criss. The beartrap I found really strange. Nothing was explained on why he wants to set his arm in a beartrap to transfer the name to him. The best one presentation wise was the Russian roulette, with the PK touch routine on second place.

Wondering how harsh Jim will be commented by Criss... Good luck
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 07:45AM)
Durring the auditions several of us used completely original material. No Google search could reveal the secret if there was one to reveal. I explained the issue of using store bought items in my interview portion of the audition ( I had over an hour to explain), but the execs didn't seem to care much. What I predicted in the interview and my subsequent talks with NBC reps and the like, is exactly what happened.(And I'm sorry to say that)

Callaham was the only one selected that was using original material IMHO.
Hope next week is better. I think that CA is losing his grip on the new Vegas show. Lot's of magicians would have gone to see it and kept a good buzz going, but not now.
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 25, 2007 08:27AM)
Both Uri and Criss said they wanted to see something they had never seen before and would blow their minds.

Then we saw PK Touches, Russian Roulette with Nail Guns, the old bear/fox trap stunt, and a phonebook test.

I don't know if the performers missed what Uri and Criss said, but if not they weren't trying very hard.
Message: Posted by: Hill (Oct 25, 2007 08:35AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 09:27, splice wrote:
Both Uri and Criss said they wanted to see something they had never seen before and would blow their minds.

Then we saw PK Touches, Russian Roulette with Nail Guns, the old bear/fox trap stunt, and a phonebook test.

I don't know if the performers missed what Uri and Criss said, but if not they weren't trying very hard.
[/quote]

I can't help but think that this is a bit harsh. It takes a pair of brass sponge balls to put yourself in the public eye and up to such scrutiny.
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Oct 25, 2007 08:45AM)
The Israeli show was much better IMO. The show was half an hour longer if I remember correctly, and no Criss Angel. The host was also a lot more interesting. I went to a recording of the show last January (where Uri's famous thumb was exposed) and it was really enjoyable, a good amount of original stuff. Ehud Segev was the runner-up on the show, and I noticed he had some trouble with his English on this version. I would imagine its tough to perform a mentalism act live in 3 minutes, but it must be much harder to do it in your second language. The Live mentalism act was also a lot more successful for some reason. I think they used celebrity names for one of them, and symbols for another, but the results were like 40% for that particular item. My opinion, Criss Angel should not be on this show, make it just Uri.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 25, 2007 08:53AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 01:11, videokideo wrote:
Id give everything I own for the opportunity to have Criss, on television, critique me. I would say to him what every magician in the world has been dying to say..... "You, Criss Angel, critiquing me is like Michael Vick critiquing a premiere dog show! Come back and try again when you can perform sponge balls without the aid of stooges and camera effects!"
[/quote]

I suggest people watch next week, because if AC comes out with a smart remark, Callahan will respond!

Callahan loves controversy, it seems to come to him even if he doesn't want it ... AC should be on his best behavior for next week's show, if not, watching it will be an additional treat!

Someone asked about laypeople, I posted that already but the thread is getting too big and I think most are not reading all of it. I watched it with friends and they were bored, cracking jokes throughout the whole thing. They said they rather hand out candy and watch kid's costumes on Halloween than another episode of Phenomenon, and this after I had spent two weeks pumping them up for it.

I liked the performers, but I'm suspect, this is my thing, my passion. I felt terrible for Gerry who had to stand there and take the criticism. But like I said earlier, I imagine Callahan will not! Not lightly anyway.
Message: Posted by: Enigmo (Oct 25, 2007 08:54AM)
I personally enjoyed the show. It was refreshing to watch live non edited magical performances and not a carefully edited magic stunt.

A couple of thoughts. Kudos for casting Ross and Carmen Electra as judges/assistants. People with great genuine reaction. I won't discuss Mrs Hunter's emotional contribution (or lack of).

I don't see why people are so hard on Chris Angel. I am not particularly a fan butI thought his comments were all fair. He said from the start that he was looking for something he had not seen, in other words, something phenomenal. He is essentially there to let public know that what they're seeing is not exceptional for someone knowledgeable in the field.

What I found more amusing is Uri Geller saying that there was no drama with the phone book prediction when he himself performed something in the most boring way imaginable... "I am placing 5 symbols here. I am placing a prediction here. We'll see if I'm right at the end of the show... Look at that! I was right. Even though we don't know whether these numbers were actually compiled or made up."

I wish they would bring a judge/advisor with no magic background but some stage theatre background. It would have been interesting to see the advices the performers would have received.

First of all, congratulations to all the performers. Everyone achieved success and everyone did a decent job considering this was a live unedited performance on TV.

I thought the show started strongly with the PK routine.

However... the two middle presentation (bear claw and nail gun) lacked in mystery. If I were to consider this from a layman's point of view, these would be my explanations:

Bear trap:

He never showed us that the large bear trap could be hurtful. If you truly don't feel pain, I can think of simpler ways of testing that.

Uri Geller gave him a good observation: You look like a lumberjack. Maybe that's what that performer should do: take the full personna of a woodsman. Then the bear trap would make sense in that context. Maybe he developped an instinct by observing how wolves behave which allows him to read minds, etc...

Nail gun:

These nail guns are rigged. or the one with nail is heavier since they have... nails. or someone was watching from backstage and signalled him or...
My point is this is supposed to be the show to locate the next phenomenon. These two particular performances didn't disprove very plausible explanations.

I must say I also found the nail gun plot confusing. Is he claiming he can sense danger? If so why have Carmen Electra shout the number outloud? Is he claiming he can detect when someone is nervous? But the more fundemental issue with any such performance on TV is : Why would NBC risk having someone endanger himself on their show? Answer: unless there is no risk... hmmmm....

However, of all four, I will say this: the nail gun performer was the most convincing...

However, congrats to all four for making it that far and appearing on TV. Good luck.

My only other comment is with respect to the voting. Does NBC really use the votes to decide who leaves? Or is that just a gimmick to elicit participation?
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 25, 2007 09:10AM)
I came away thinking, of all the people that auditioned, this is who they selected?? Im sure next week will be much better. However, it would have been better to have a really strong start, the two hour special should have been last night. Get the best on first to draw interest in the viewers.
Message: Posted by: splice (Oct 25, 2007 09:12AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 09:35, David Meade wrote:

I can't help but think that this is a bit harsh. It takes a pair of brass sponge balls to put yourself in the public eye and up to such scrutiny.
[/quote]

I don't deny that. But when the hosts say they want to see something they never saw before, coming up to the stage and doing a PK touch routine is missing the point. Not saying the routines weren't entertaining, but as far as never seen before? No way.
Message: Posted by: wardia (Oct 25, 2007 09:14AM)
I invited some lay friends to watch with me.
You guessed it they were not impressed!!!
Angel should not be there.
Uri should not have done that stunt!
Who cares what country these guys come from!
I certainly hope next week will be better.

wardia
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 25, 2007 09:27AM)
The phone votes are a money-making scheme for the production.

Let's all call in and vote out Criss Angel.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 25, 2007 09:28AM)
Luke is 99% bang on!

Roei's comment for a comeback to Criss is excellent!!!

In fact - I think all performers should be prepared to say


"Criss - Shut up. You are an embaressment to the art. We came on to connect with people to entertain and bring mystery to others - you are a destroyer of dreams. Why don't you do a 3 minute act up here and we can critique you - you are nothing without stooges, camera edits, Banachek's guidance(who?), and kick-backs from various sources.... get a life and grow up."

I can see JJ saying

"Did you say something? I thought I heard a jealous little girl crying - maybe a spirit trying to connect..."

or

"<Laugh> you certainly are brutal but not honest - face it - you just wish you had my powers"

or

"Criss, do you want my spirits to reveal the brutal truth about you? You are a PHONEY - so all you can see is phoniness..."



Heck, just when I started getting back my respect for Angel - he does this - as others have stated... ABOMINATION works well as a descriptor...

Ooops... the Abomination from Marvel Comics is offended that his name is associated with Angel.... he says comes up with something else or he'll smash us.


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I am rooting for Jim and Angela!

....

TV mentalist WOULD work if done properly - not as an Idol style show - think of early Blaine.... it was GOOD... because it was MYSTERY.... MYSTERYYYYYYY...

I am truly inspired to develop a TV show for Discovery.... hey Entity and fellow Canadians - let me know if you'd be interested!!!!
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 25, 2007 09:40AM)
I would take the chance of being kicked off the show to have the opportunity to call out Criss on live tv next week.

Ive never been in a position before where I so badly want to watch fellow mentalists perform, good or bad, but almost refuse because of the idiot NBC booked to criticize them. It hurts to be so ticked off at something you can do absolutely nothing about. Im sick of that guy getting attention he doesn't deserve. The guy is a magic britney spears..a fake packaged and sold. They dressed him up goth, gave him an attitude, and found an untouched market....hes a dancing bear... and its fitting that he teamed up with cirque.

I liked most of the acts...althought I don't think mentalism plays well at all on television. The phone book test was awesome. didn't like the nail gun roulette. The guy didn't make sense with the wolf traps and I think will be voted out.

I watched with 3 frieds who were laymen... they hated the show. Thought it was boring minus a couple moments.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 25, 2007 09:43AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 10:28, Dr Spektor wrote:
I am rooting for Jim and Angela!
[/quote]
Excuse my Doc. Just wondering why are you rooting for Angela? ;)
Message: Posted by: Lumas (Oct 25, 2007 09:44AM)
[quote]
Bear trap:

He never showed us that the large bear trap could be hurtful. If you truly don't feel pain, I can think of simpler ways of testing that.

Nail gun:

These nail guns are rigged. or the one with nail is heavier since they have... nails. or someone was watching from backstage and signalled him or...

I must say I also found the nail gun plot confusing. Is he claiming he can sense danger? If so why have Carmen Electra shout the number outloud? Is he claiming he can detect when someone is nervous?
However, of all four, I will say this: the nail gun performer was the most convincing...
[/quote]

I am sure that a large majority of the people watching the show questioned why he did not show that the large bear trap was dangerous. It would be like performing the trick Fraud and saying "Look this is a regular bill, but let me now get another bill from my pocket and use that one." Why show us that an item is normal and then use a completely different one.

I am sure the nail gun is rigged. Would NBC allow someone to possibly shoot a nail into their brain? First, those nails weren't that scary looking. I think those are nails used for things like cabinets.

Second, I think he basically gave it away that he could tell what gun it was by making Carmen repeat the numbers like five times. I knew it was five after the second time she repeated the numbers, before he picked up the first gun. If you can read minds, then why make someone say the numbers out loud.
Message: Posted by: Hill (Oct 25, 2007 09:45AM)
I think Angela has enough of a USP and more than enough talent to get to the final two. And if she get's that far, America will make sure she wins. If I was a betting man, I would put £10 on her, and £10 on Jim.
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 25, 2007 09:53AM)
And to answer a question on a couple pages back...

No, the show does not have to continue to run its full length on tv. Normally what they will do is knock off multiple players in one setting to cut down the number of weeks needed. But, there have been two reality competitions who never even made it to the final show..

Should be in the contract that your priority is to perform for exposure as it will pay off more than the prize. If all goes well, there will be a prize, but the exposure is your goal. But like I said, they usually find a way to cut the shows down. Right now, it wouldnt be hard to just have one final show where they vote on the ultimate winner.

A friend of mine works for NBC Florida called and told me this morning that they are already considering cutting the show short as ratings started ok, but slid to nothing by the end of the show. The ratings didn't meet standards promised to advertisers, and two advertisers have already pulled out as of this morning and consolidated their money on other shows. When you contract advertisers, you usually give them minimum number goals to reach in that the contract remains good. This show couldn't even reach those minimum numbers, so the advertisers do have the choice to move their funds elswhere in programming, or have part of their money refunded to a better compensated fee to stay within this shows timeslots. Fact is, this show is costing NBC money!
Message: Posted by: magic4545 (Oct 25, 2007 10:01AM)
I have a few comments, but I haven't seen the show yet, even though I was one of the people chosen to fly to L.A. for auditions.

I've spoken to several of you about why I didn't go. Now, I'm convinced that it was for the best. They seem to have wanted someone 'really' psychic, and I don't believe in that, nor do I believe in anyone representing themselves as that. I'm more like Penn and Teller in that respect. There's a special hell for John Edwards, and anyone else preying on the general public. If someone is claiming paranormal powers, they deserve to be outed. Just my opinion. But, how do we do that without exposing the magic techniques that they're using? Hmmmm...

Now, I'm the biggest critic of Criss Angel, and Videokideo nailed it in the prior post.

But, how much of Criss' behavior was simply the show needing a Simon? Have you all been fooled? Are you missing the point of American television needing a conflict, and Criss had to take one for the show?

That being said, Criss didn't have to do what he did, even if a director encouraged it.

Do we all crawl onto the Criss Angel bandwagon, and sit quietly while he exposes everyone ELSE? Or do we educate the public that he is abusing the televised medium, and create a watchdog entity that can give back credibility to the televised magic and mentalism shows that it's lacked for quite a while.

What if an educated viewer were to have us behind them, telling them, "Yes, that effect can be done live... Contact ________ and he can come to your home or banquet and do that effect, and many others that are even more incredible!"

Exposing a magician for abusing situational manipulation that couldn't be duplicated under normal conditions is okay by me. It's not like we're exposing actual magic that can be done live. In fact, I feel that at a certain point, to save the future of televised magic, we need to tear down the current abuse of the medium, and expose the abusers as what they are.

At some point, we've got to separate our art from gratuitous post production manipulation.

Criss doing what he's done on the show, regardless of whether it was motivated by his ego or the producers, has forced us into a position where we almost CAN'T sit back and let him turn himself into a deity. It's not right.

There is plenty of legitimate mentalism and magic that can be done on these shows, but they choose to crap all over the art by contriving manipulated video shots and stooges.

Another issue that comes to mind when seeing this thread is the thought that it takes more 'time' and 'connection' to the audience to create great magic.

I've always felt that too many magicians and mentalists like to hear themselves talk, and they need too much buildup to 'sell' their effects. Just get more direct material and create it to impact without the B.S.

If your stuff gets to the point more quickly, then you won't have to worry when you go to a show, and they're asking you to get on with it.

Don't fall in love with listening to yourself talk about what you're going to do, or why you became a mentalist, blah blah blah. I'm Missouri. Show me!

If you do a 40-minute show, and you want to do four 10-minute effects that are being sold as "really filling ten minutes", I suggest that you do a shorter show. Do effects that get to the point. Especially with mentalism. It's already susceptible to being boring. Why make things worse?

Of course, many of you out there who are thinking "Yeah, right on!" are the actual guys that I'm talking about. And some of you probably think the same of me, in some of my effects. But we all need to get to the meat of the effects, and fall less in love with hearing ourselves talk.

Also, remember another TV show that offered a big cash prize at the end? The Ben Affleck/Derek Cecil project, "Push Nevada"? That cratered, and I don't think that they ever made it to the last episode. I feel that the same is going to happen here. Fortunately. Unfortunately. I just don't know.

Jimmy Fingers
waiting for NBC to put the episode on their website
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 10:01AM)
The only "phenemonal" powers demonstrated were mine when I predicted what would happen. I hope for more next week. As for J ack/Jim, there is no way he is going to match words with the ego maniac who to me looks more and more like Rachel Ray.

Hunter was not bored guys. Man for dudes so "in tune" with body language she was first confused, then ANGRY. Seriously man. She was quite unhappy with the method, which was "instant stooging" and she was not at all happy about it. He had to coach her on where the blanks were. Notice how she was NOT asked about it afterwords? Great editing and Gerry deserves the benifit of the doubt.

As for the bear trap, well how exactly did he get on the show anyhow?

The "touch" thing. I wish he would NOT have misspoke when he said "did you feel that touch before? And her saying "It wasn't really a touch" didn't help.

Heck the "celebrities" was a very loose useage of the term.

Uri god help me I thought was kind of a bright spot in a dark night. They were kind enough to edit his profile though LOL.

Now Criss. Part of the problem is he surrounds himself with people who for whatever reason are SO despirate to be on TV that they are willing to do things they may or may not agree with. Every one of them is an enabeler if you ask me. They feed his ego for a paycheck. He hires premire talent, in order to make himself look better. Sorry Luke but you fall into this catagory wheather you have any association with him personal or professional any more. I wish it could be explained.

The egonutsiness (an industry term) of him having to say how he did more magic than any other prime time magician. 900 hours? Now let me do my math. 1/2 hour show, 900 hours 1800 episodes? Is that even possible?

I MUST have misheard right? I don't have the heart to go back and listen to the quote as I don't want to waste good time after bad, but man this guy REALLY needs to come to earth.

Luke sorry if it seems as if I am taking a shot. I am not. At least you stopped which is a good thing.

Question is this in my mind. Is this going to help mentalism?
Message: Posted by: boinko (Oct 25, 2007 10:01AM)
I'm surprised no one is mentioning this -- but what's going with Phenomenon and with "media magic" in general these days -- is upstaging and oversizing the intimacy of magical entertainment.

And by "intimacy" I don't necessarily mean small crowds or small rooms. That's intimate, yes -- and for many magical effects works very well.

No, what's going on here is appears to be a fundamental conflict between "magical entertainment in person" versus "magical entertainment live via media."

The "in person" may not play big enough (but may be nicely intimate and effective for the audience.) And the "live via media" plays too big -- too large -- and essentially strips the necessary intimate connection from the entertainment.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 10:26AM)
I will say this is not good for NBC, By the amount of post and discussion here and then go over to the NBC message board you see nothing good being said. And the message board at NBC is all but dead. Very few post since the show aired last night....I know they have that link for Video>>>Full Episodes and if they do eventually get it up all those lay people that didn't get what criss exposed will have a second chance....though I don't know how many people are going to watch it a second time....I think everyone here in the Café is doing a great job saying just what went wrong...I am sure NBC is listening trust me. That's how they found many of the contestants. Besides...their message board is so dead this is the best place to come for feed back....and to me it sounds like that zingy ear pitch from the feedback on the microphone.
Message: Posted by: Corona Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:40AM)
I haven't seen the show either. But I didn't like it either, it was too..... well, lets just say, 'American'.

Corona.
Message: Posted by: Hoff Man (Oct 25, 2007 10:53AM)
Well, I guess it can only get better … right?

I applaud NBC for presenting the special live, yet I found the overall show difficult to watch. It seemed to lack any sense of flow. The segments were disjointed with little or no continuity. The only person who appeared to establish his personality effectively within the limited time frame was Ross, who oddly enough, made the strongest connection with the audience.

At times the back-story biographies seemed to invoke pity more than genuine interest and IMO detracted more than they added to the individual performances. It might be better to have the “contestants” use this time to respond to the judge’s comments. Air a little back stage discontent and controversy so to speak …I don’t kow. More drama is needed … and I’m not talking about a nail gun to the head or a hand in the bear trap kind.

Ultimately all the performers last night were winners and their appearance on national television will only propel their career further along regardless of how the rest of the special plays out. Good job guys.

The bottom line is … was the special entertaining?

Would you tune in next week if you had no prior interest in magic, mentalism or the personalities involved?


Steve

p.s. can’t say any more about CA that hasn’t already been said.
Message: Posted by: CAROLINI (Oct 25, 2007 10:55AM)
Hopefully the NBC web is bombarded with a great suggestion for improving the show, namely, get rid of Criss Angel. I still can't believe he was voted magician of the year. Can magic be this hard up?
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 25, 2007 10:58AM)
I actually think that David Blaine would have been a much better choice than Chris Angel.

At least Blaine is somewhat humble!
Message: Posted by: Necromancer (Oct 25, 2007 10:59AM)
Incidentally, the shtick about the judges wanting to see things they've never seen before is just TV talk. The performers supplied the producers with their list of routines back when they auditioned, and it is the producer who chooses which performer does what material at each appearance. (At least, that was the plan when it was explained to me by a casting director.)

To Jimmy: rapid-fire mentalism might work for you. But being speedy doesn't make a performer less boring, just as telling jokes at top speed doesn't make a comedian funnier (insert your favorite string of three Steven Wright joke here, as told at 78 RPMs by Alvin and the Chipmunks). Being a performer of quick stunts can simply make the mentalist forgettable, and since there's no personality or emotional connection involved, he's easily replaceable in the audience's mind with anybody else who does similar stunts. To make a distinct impression, in my opinion, a performer needs to show a distinct personality -- something that may be impossible to do in a flashy little TV slot. How boring a presentation is does not come from its length (I've seen people hold the stage marvelously for over an hour without doing a single mentalism effect, and so have you). It comes from a lack of engagement.

Let me put this into practical performance terms, involving one of the most supposedly dramatic and unquestionably most gratuitously dangerous pieces in the repertoire: Why would anybody care whether you win or lose at Russian Roulette if they don't care at all about you?

Best,
Neil
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Oct 25, 2007 11:05AM)
Danny and Luke. Great posts.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 25, 2007 11:06AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 11:58, rowdymagi5 wrote:
I actually think that David Blaine would have been a much better choice than Chris Angel.

At least Blaine is somewhat humble!
[/quote]

Criss Angel talks too much. David Blaine talks too little. How about if Randi was one of the judges.
Message: Posted by: Hoff Man (Oct 25, 2007 11:10AM)
It might be better for NBC to hold off on the performance critiques until the end of the show, while the contestants stand side by side in front of the judges. This seems much more compelling to me.

Steve
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 11:13AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 10:53, videokideo wrote:
And to answer a question on a couple pages back...

No, the show does not have to continue to run its full length on tv. Normally what they will do is knock off multiple players in one setting to cut down the number of weeks needed. But, there have been two reality competitions who never even made it to the final show..

Should be in the contract that your priority is to perform for exposure as it will pay off more than the prize. If all goes well, there will be a prize, but the exposure is your goal. But like I said, they usually find a way to cut the shows down. Right now, it wouldnt be hard to just have one final show where they vote on the ultimate winner.

A friend of mine works for NBC Florida called and told me this morning that they are already considering cutting the show short as ratings started ok, but slid to nothing by the end of the show. The ratings didn't meet standards promised to advertisers, and two advertisers have already pulled out as of this morning and consolidated their money on other shows. When you contract advertisers, you usually give them minimum number goals to reach in that the contract remains good. This show couldn't even reach those minimum numbers, so the advertisers do have the choice to move their funds elsewhere in programming, or have part of their money refunded to a better compensated fee to stay within this shows time slots. Fact is, this show is costing NBC money!
[/quote]

Absolutely....they will cut their losses in a minute. CBS cancelled Viva Lauglin after only two episodes...and what was that thing with William Shatner last season....I actually saw more of that show being made fun of then ever seeing any episodes.

The worst part is everyone here is saying the same things were wrong with the show....whats worse is all these things were pointed out and mentioned long long ago when something could have been done to structure the show better. But now the box is built...and everyone is in that box...and you can't fix the box because now your in it. If they change the format by giving more time to the next batch of contestants or telling Uri and criss to pipe down and turn off the self-promotion then it would be very unfair to the first 4 guys.

As I see it their is little they can do to make the show better... they had the chance but didn't listen and I know all 10 guys on the show brought up all these points everyone here has made weeks ago.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 11:16AM)
I doubt that they would worry about being unfair to the first four guys......
Not if it saved their @ss :)
Message: Posted by: nimrod (Oct 25, 2007 11:29AM)
The nail gun is not rigged in any way. If you are going to throw solutions (to any of the effects) do it at least in the Inner Thoughts section.

Nimrod , Israel
Message: Posted by: Jay Are (Oct 25, 2007 11:29AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 11:53, Hoff Man wrote:

Would you tune in next week if you had no prior interest in magic, mentalism or the personalities involved?


Steve

p.s. can’t say any more about CA that hasn’t already been said.
[/quote]

What is interesting to me -- is that my wife actually sat across the couch from me and said...

"If I wasn't married to you -- I wouldn't watch this show again..."

Unfortunately I think a lot of people feel this way...

Let's just hope J/J gets to light a few fires before NBC puts the end to this thing...
Message: Posted by: Paul (Oct 25, 2007 11:32AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 01:10, Magic Spank wrote:
He didn't use the prop you're suspecting.

I'll email you.
[/quote]

True, he did that much better on a British TV show years ago before that 'prop' was available. The results this time were poor because the viewing audience got too little time looking at the whole line of symbols. At the time I thought Uri's application brilliant.

Great post from Luke though with comments on Criss and the different performance conditions. Whilst it may generate some work (and Gerry needn't worry he's already in Vegas anyway at Hooters Hotel and Casino)I'm certainly glad I turned the show down when the phone rang.

TV isn't everything, and with one or two exceptions has been going down hill for years. Reality is rarely what you get on reality shows.

If Criss keeps up the put downs I wonder if someone will say, "Okay Mindfreak, lets see you walk up this theatre wall or go through this sheet of glass I happened to bring along, now on live TV..."
Paul.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 11:43AM)
Here ya go

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/53210218

some results from last nights ratings across the board...
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 25, 2007 11:49AM)
But you have to remember, game 1 of the World Series was being played...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 11:51AM)
Pretty much says it all does it not?

Now let the local spin experts give it a try.
Message: Posted by: Enigmo (Oct 25, 2007 11:53AM)
Nimrod,

Whether the nailgun is rigged or not, is not the point. Throwing solutions is not the point either. The point is that it is a possible solution to the lay audience and therefore doesn't make that demonstration too... phenomenal.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Oct 25, 2007 11:54AM)
Gay.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 25, 2007 11:57AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 12:49, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
But you have to remember, game 1 of the World Series was being played...
[/quote]

Yes,but it was only [Boston] vs Colorado....



:) just kidding Tony
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 25, 2007 12:04PM)
To tell the truth, I was not sure the show was even going to air in my market.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 25, 2007 12:37PM)
Tony Eye, if JJ wins, aren't we all going to share the money? ;)
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Oct 25, 2007 12:40PM)
If JJ wins, I'm applying to be part of his crew.
Message: Posted by: adolphus (Oct 25, 2007 12:45PM)
In his Today show promo appearance, Uri underwhelmingly bent a spoon but essentially said everyone should decide for themselves how it was done. I think he's moderating his own PK claims for this show due to Angel's (and maybe Randi, the media and the internet's?)presence.

Besides, if Uri tries something on the show, Criss might just blabber how "Yes, I also do the ultimate version of __as well as personally employ it's creator, __ as a consultant. A commerical version of it called ___ is also sold at ____.com where everyone may purchase it for under $_____."
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 25, 2007 12:47PM)
The following results are based on the fast affiliate ratings (Live Plus Same Day data)

-Total Viewers:
Fox: 16.87 million, CBS: 12.20, ABC: 9.93, NBC: 7.69, CW: 4.72

-Adults 18-49:
Fox: 5.6 rating/14 share, ABC: 3.6/ 9, CBS: 3.4/ 9, NBC: 2.9/ 7, CW: 2.3/ 6

----------

-Yesterday’s Winners:
World Series, Game 1 (Fox), Private Practice (ABC), Criminal Minds (CBS), CSI: NY (CBS)

-Disappointing:
Phenomenon (NBC), Kid Nation (CBS), Bionic Woman (NBC)

-Yesterday’s Losers:
Gossip Girl (CW), Life (NBC)


NBC finished last just above CW. It took a large decline in ratings from the previous week's Deal Or No Deal.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 25, 2007 12:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 02:59, arnon wrote:
Is it true that the show will [b]HAVE[/b] to last to the bitter end, since a prize of $250,000 has been promised, and NBC has committed itself?
[/quote]

Good point, Arnon. I don't know how this end of television works (and this "end of television" applies in more ways than one). If I had to guess, I'd say they can't cancel mid-series, for as you mentioned, a prize has been promised, and they're committed. So we will all get everything we were promised, like it or not.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 25, 2007 12:51PM)
Gabe

We are talking about the same network that cancelled Last Comic Standing just before the finale a few years back.

Tony
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 25, 2007 12:54PM)
Forgot to put this in my last post... this is a typical review I'm reading time and time again.

http://time-blog.com/tuned_in/


And yes, the show can get cancelled as I stated before. They can cut the episodes down and limit the number of weeks, or flat out pull the show. It should be in their contract that no prize will be given if the show does not hold ratings long enough. And this is where they need to do the show for exposure and see the prize as an extra incentive if it comes around.

Most reality will cut the number of weeks and finish out the show. But I can see this one getting pulled with the ratings they are experiencing.
Message: Posted by: aqmagish20 (Oct 25, 2007 12:58PM)
Here is my ratings #. When the masked magician/Blaine/Copperfield etc are/where on people at work said to me "did you see...." Not one normal person(non-magician/mentalist no offense) has said "hey, your a magician, did you see that last night." Quite frankly, I wish I hadn't either.
Message: Posted by: Gianni (Oct 25, 2007 01:02PM)
I haven't read every post in this thread yet, but I am getting annoyed with the vein in the thread of people who have made comments like:

a) I watched it with friends, and they were bored.
b) I watched this with friends and they were laughing about it

I have seen oh-so-many mentalist performances (attended several MindVentions; saw Marc Salem on Broadway; attended many, many lectures by the top people in the field; seen Darren Brown's show on TV; etc., etc.). Given what I think is a substantial background and intense interest in mentalism, how can anyone be so flip and ugly as to say that these fellows' performances on last night's show were boring and/or laughable. At the VERY least they were journeyman quality mentalism performances. If these gentlemen's performance did not pass muster, is this group honestly saying that the members of this board perform better? If so, then my exposure to the great breadth of mentalism performances tells me there are many armchair liars in this group.

Gianni
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 25, 2007 01:18PM)
Gianni,

I saw it with friends (laymen, six of them) and they WERE bored.

I liked it, but does my opinion count? How many "mentalists" are out there watching this show? A laughable, insignificant amount.

What matters is how OTHER people see this (us). And yes, they made jokes throughout the show and yes they did leave bored without the least amount of interest in ever seeing anything like this again.

I made my best effort to get them to watch next week. We'll see.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 25, 2007 01:21PM)
I finally figured out who hired Criss Angel.... same people who made Steve Gutenberg a star.....

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/downloads/music/wedo.mp3
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 01:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 13:54, videokideo wrote:
Forgot to put this in my last post... this is a typical review I'm reading time and time again.

http://time-blog.com/tuned_in/


And yes, the show can get cancelled as I stated before. They can cut the episodes down and limit the number of weeks, or flat out pull the show. It should be in their contract that no prize will be given if the show does not hold ratings long enough. And this is where they need to do the show for exposure and see the prize as an extra incentive if it comes around.

Most reality will cut the number of weeks and finish out the show. But I can see this one getting pulled with the ratings they are experiencing.
[/quote]

Oh thank goodness the reviews are pointing out the fatal flaw in having the judgements by criss and Uri. This is good and shows that it's not just us on the Café and in the know that see the irony and bad taste of the idea.

I felt so bad for Jim Karol and here's why. It dawned on me watching Jim Karol standing there on stage....no mater if the comments were good or bad....here is a guy...what 55 or so, a professional that is a working performer...being viewed upon like a 20 something on American idol.....

Most everyone on the show is a working professional....it's belittling. It poor taste.

Now NBC gets to wallow around in the muck and try to get advertisers to hang on....

I suspect we will be hearing some interesting news after meetings today around NBC.
Message: Posted by: Hoff Man (Oct 25, 2007 01:37PM)
Gianni,

I think most people are commenting on the structural format of the show more than anything else. As far as individual performances, there were some that I enjoyed more than others. Everyone did a good job presenting their material within the format presented to them.

The success of Phenomenon does not rest on the shoulders of the performers alone.
What I saw were professionals doing their best to perform in a time and space that was anything but ideal. They all have my highest regard.

Was the show boring? That depends on who you ask.
A little orange jacket mentalism might have helped.

Sometimes the ratings speak for themselves.
Sometimes figures lie and liars figure.


Steve
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 25, 2007 01:48PM)
Criss Angel: Expect "fireworks" on NBC's new 'Phenomenon' series

CA; I AM THE FIREWORKS - I AM FIRE - I AM GOD - WORSHIP ME AND BE SPARED

By Christopher Rocchio, 10/15/2007

Criss Angel described Phenomenon as "explosive," an aspect of the new NBC reality competition series that attracted the Criss Angel Mindfreak illusionist to work on the project.


I WAS ATTRACTED TO BEING GIVEN AUTHORITY OVER OTHER PROFESSIONALS AND TO BE ABLE TO TELL THEM HOW INSIGNIFICANT THEY ARE TO MY GODHOOD... PRAY TO ME AND BE SPARED.


"I think it's going to prove to be a very provocative and engaging show that will give talent throughout the world an opportunity to showcase their abilities," Angel told reporters during a conference call last week. "I just thought a show like this would give people a legitimate opportunity. And to participate in it live is really a selling point for me because I'm going to experience as you and all the home viewers are for the very first time when they're performing it."


I SHALL PROVE TO BE PROVOCATIVE AND I SHALL ENGAGE MY MINIONS - THOSE WHO SHALL COME FORWARD TO ENTERTAIN ME SHALL BE GIVEN A LEGITIMATE OPPORTUNITY - FIRST, A FAIR TRIAL - THEN WE HANG THEM.

Angel and mentalist Uri Gellar will assist the 10 Phenomenon contestants as well as provide their insight, however it will be the home viewers who vote to determine which act eventually claims the show's $250,000 grand prize following the show's five-week broadcast run.

URI'S NAME WILL ALWAYS FOLLOW MINE IN ALL ADS - NEVER IN FRONT, OR I WILL NOT PLAY WITH YOU. I WANT TO BE #1... PERIOD. URI IS NOT MY EQUAL - NO ONE IS... PRAY THAT YOU DIE EASILY!!!!


"I think many, many people are fascinated with the unknown, with the ability to do something that is unexplainable. I think that this show will showcase the best and the worst and the people that claim they potentially [have] this ability because of supernatural reasons, not because it's something that's a trick," said Angel. "I think all of that stuff is potentially the ingredients for explosive television. I'm going to be there as the voice of the people. And the minute somebody claims - if they claim - if anybody claims that they have this ability outside of trickery I will expose them."

I DO NOT THINK THE BEST HAS COME - AS I HAVE NOT SHOWN YOU MY POWERS - BUT CERTAINLY I CAN SHOWCASE THE WORST - THEY ARE ALL NOTHING TO MY GREATNESS. ALTHOUGH POTENTIALLY EXPLOSIVE, I HAVE DOUSED OUT ALL FLAMES... FOR ONLY MY FLAME IS WHAT YE SHALL WORSHIP... FOR I AM A JEALOUS GOD. I WILL EXPOSE EVERYONE - FOR EVERYONE CLAIMS TO HAVE POWERS - SO THEY ALL MUST BE PUNISHED.

Phenomenon is scheduled to premiere Wednesday, October 24 at 8PM ET/PT, with NBC broadcasting each of Phenomenon's one-hour episodes live and imploring home viewers to try and debunk the 10 contestants' tricks.

YES - MY WORSHIPPERS WILL DEBUNK WITH ME - FOR ONLY I AM THE TRUE GOD - I AM THE MMMMIIIINNNNNDDDDDFFFFRRRRRREEEEAAAAAKKK

"It's going to be interesting because one of the things that I've requested is I don't want to be in the loop so much. I want to be experiencing the performer for the first moment just as the audience is as they begin their performance," explained Angel. "So I want to kind of not be tainted by knowing who is doing what or anything like that. I'm going in there just like the audience. So you're going to see my reaction for the first time because it's the first time I'm seeing it."

HA! AS IF I COULD BE JUST LIKE THE AUDIENCE - I, WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN MORE MAGIC THAN ALL MAGICIANS COMBINED - I WHO CAN NOT ONLY KNOW HOW THINGS ARE DONE BUT TELL THE WORLD IN REAL TIME THE EFFECT NAME, BOOK, AND PAGE #.... BEHOLD MY REACTIONS - I AM A MERCILESS GOD - PRAY THAT YOU DIE EASILY!!!!!

While Angel admitted he'd "absolutely love to be fooled" by the Phenomenon contestants' performances, he has no problem exposing them on live television if he thinks it's a hoax, which could lead to "fireworks going back and forth."

I WOULD LOVE TO BE FOOLED - THIS IS A LIE. NO ONE FOOLS THE MMMMIIIINNNDDDDD FFFRFRREEEAAAAKKKKKK.... ALL FIREWORKS ARE DUE TO ME ALONE.

"I will stand up for the people as Houdini did to expose those who try to take advantage of the vulnerable," said Angel. "The innocence of a child for the first time seeing something and being in wonder is something I long for because, you know, I'm tainted... I see things and I see it differently. I try to look at it as a spectator but, you know, unless I get amnesia I still can't overlook that. I can appreciate the performance... I just look at it to be true to myself and do what I believe is right. And I think the American public is very smart and will realize that I'm out to be true and to protect them."

I AM A HERO - I AM GREATER THAN SUPERMAN, SPIDERMAN, BATMAN AND WONDER WOMAN... I LOVE WONDER WOMAN. I LOVE HOW SHE TIES UP PEOPLE.... ERRR... MORALS ARE FOR MEN! NOT GODS!!!!! BRITNEY - CAMERON - ALL WOMEN LOVE ME! THE MINDFREAK!


Despite not having a final say in which contestant receives the show's grand prize, Angel said he's confident in the home viewers' eventual decision. He said he never "gave a ****" about what other magicians thought of him, and now he'll have a chance to practice what he preaches on Phenomenon.

I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK - LIE! I AM A JEALOUS GOD AND I SHALL HURL MY LIGHTNING AT ALL WHO THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN ME - I SHALL EXPOSE YOU ALL - I AM THE UNMASKING MENTALIST!

"It doesn't matter what I really think," he said. "If I'm there and I say somebody sucks and yet the American public says they're great, they're the ones who are looking at it through virgin eyes. And they know better than me what the public wants because I'm tainted. So I trust the American public to pick truly who's the most entertaining because they're going to know who is the most entertaining because, you know, their eyes and their ears are in a way virgin to this subject."

HA! LIKE WHEN I DESTROYED EHUD WHO ACTUALLY HAD A THEME, A RAPPORT, AND A MESSAGE TO THE AUDIENCE - I TOOK SPECIAL PLEASURE IN DEBUNKING HIM - HOW DARE HE TRY TO STEAL MY WORSHIPPERS? CARMEN ELECTRA SHALL WORSHIP ME! ALL WOMEN LOVE ME!!!!

Phenomenon is based on a popular Israeli reality competition series called The Successor, which premiered earlier this year and featured Gellar as a judge and mentor. Angel said the first exposure he had to The Successor was via a YouTube clip.

BAH - NOW IT WILL BE A REAL SHOW AS I AM ON IT.

"I did have the opportunity to meet Uri. And, you know, he was very enthusiastic and very, obviously, very passionate about this incarnation of the show," said Angel. "I'm excited to be part of it. And I'm waiting to go on the ride just like the home audience will be on. And we'll see what develops. But, you know, at the end of the day I think it - I signed on because I think it's a very intriguing concept."

AND I MUST MAKE SURE IT NEVER TOPS MIIIINNNDDDDD FFRRRREEAAAAKKKKKKKKK

Angel said what differs Phenomenon from other reality competition shows is its "fascinating" subject matter as well as the fact that "so many people in their life go see a psychic," people will be able to "connect" to it. While it hasn't even premiered yet, Angel sounded optimistic that Phenomenon could touch a chord with viewers and become a regular series.

THEREFORE I MUST BE THERE TO MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT HAPPEN - ALL CONNECTIONS ARE WITH ME...

"I think the livelihood of the show has the potential to go on and on because there's so many people that want to believe in the supernatural, that want to be able to talk to the dead, that want to believe that you can bend spoons with your mind," he said. "And I think as long as there are people that want to believe that, there's the need or the demand for a show like this. Who would ever think that Mindfreak would be in its hundredth episode? So I mean there's an audience out there for this stuff."

NOTICE MY SUBTLE WAY OF PROCLAIMING THE GREATNESS OF MMMIIINNNDDD FFFFRRREEEEAKKK - THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH.

Angel said he begins work on Mindfreak's fourth season -- which will inlcude the show's 100th episode -- on October 22, so he'll be filming episodes of his A&E series while simultaneously flying to California every Wednesday to shoot Phenomenon in addition to rehearsing for his live Las Vegas stage show.

THERE ARE LIKELY MANY THINGS I CAN TAKE FOR MY SHOW WITHOUT CREDITING THEM... HAHAHA... BUT IT IS JUST - THEY MUST PAY THEIR SACRIFICES TO ME - MOVE OVER KALI... I AM THE ONE... THE GOD OF KINGDOM COME... GIVE ME THE PRIZE!!!

However he sounded most excited to be working on Phenomenon.

I AM GOD

"This is an interesting proposition for me because it's a show that I'm not creating. It's a show that I'm not producing. It's a show I'm not directing. It's a show I don't even know what's going to happen," he said. "So for me that's exciting to be involved in that capacity because it's a different approach for me. And this show is a completely different animal from anything I've ever done or anything I've ever seen."

THEREFORE, I SHALL TAKE CONTROL OF THE SHOW ANYWAY I CAN AND MAKE IT A TRAVESTY WHERE ONLY I EMERGE THE VICTOR.... GIVE ME THE PRIZE!!! THE WOMEN!!!! THE LOVE OF EVERYONE!!! I MUST BE LOVED BY EVERYONE!!!!!

YOU LOVE ME... DON'T YOU... JUST A LITTLE? DON'T YOU... PLEASE... LOOK... I DID A BETTER RUSSIAN ROULETTE... MOMMY? PLEEEEEEAAAZ?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 01:51PM)
Every time the show would pick up momentum Angel would throw a bucket of water on the fire. Angel will Poo Poo everyone and claim he is THE BEST all the way through. He exposed on his own show and he's following the same steps here. Lord help Us!
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Oct 25, 2007 01:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:21, Dr Spektor wrote:
I finally figured out who hired Criss Angel.... same people who made Steve Gutenberg a star.....

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/downloads/music/wedo.mp3
[/quote]

([url=http://tinyurl.com/39dj2r]Video version of "We Do"[/url])

In that spirit: Someone asked me what I thought was the best part of Phenomenon. I e-mailed them a link to [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shRqw3ceEYE]this scene[/url].
Message: Posted by: Dmann (Oct 25, 2007 02:10PM)
This show hugs... big time. Doomed!
Message: Posted by: Hoff Man (Oct 25, 2007 02:12PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:51, Slim King wrote:
Every time the show would pick up momentum Angel would throw a bucket of water on the fire.
[/quote]

Slim,

That's why I think it would be best to hold off on the critiques untill the end of the show. As it was, the show had a kinda patch work feel to it.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Gianni (Oct 25, 2007 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:18, ALEXANDRE wrote:
Gianni,

I saw it with friends (laymen, six of them) and they WERE bored.
[/quote]

Alexandre:

I'm very happy you responded to my post. My question, then, is, do you know why your friends were bored? You see, my concern is that I felt the performers on this show provided nice quality performances. If they cannot hold your friends' interest and attention, then what would that take? I am concerned that if generally fine performers cannot hold the interest, then what hope have we for the future of mentalism as entertainment?

Gianni
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 25, 2007 02:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:37, Hoff Man wrote:
Was the show boring? That depends on who you ask.
A little orange jacket mentalism might have helped.

Steve
[/quote]

Caught me off guard. That was funny, though I'm not sure about that.

My girlfriend and I had a serious discussion on what I would've performed that first night, and how, had I made it on, now that I've seen it.

A show like this has never been done. It's a tough decision. Tough, I say!

I take my orange jacket off to those guys performing that first night. At least the others have a better chance to change things now that they've seen the first episode.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 02:23PM)
Sure it did Hoff...but it's funny that they've been working on this for weeks and everyone had pointed out just what made the show the way it was and why everyone here is so charged about it. It's like telling people watch out for that tree branch but they stood under it anyway. They also had dress rehearsals...right? I wouldn't say the executive and NBC were shocked...they all new what it was going to be like when they had dress rehearsals...they are now shocked because the public was like WTF was that? They thought everything was fine...but now they know...just because you work at NBC doesn't mean you know how to deliver performances like these on national TV. Arrogance has a tendency to bite you right on the backside...NBC didn't believe any of the guys...tight time constraints...criss ....judgment...exposure.....these things combined brought the show to it's knees for lay people and professionals in the biz.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 02:28PM)
Hoff is right....Reserve the critiques for the end.
Imagine if the performers and their effects were run back to back....That would have been a pretty neat show. A good 15 minutes of miracles...But NOOOOOOOOO :)
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Oct 25, 2007 02:33PM)
Did anyone else notice during the commercial break an advertisement for a psychic website??? How funny that they would TAG this show with something like that...
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 25, 2007 02:40PM)
[quote]
At least the others have a better chance to change things now that they've seen the first episode.
[/quote]

I truly wonder if this fact will help or hurt, Alexandre. I typically would prefer to go second, but in this situation I'm not sure it wouldn't have been better to go first...at least they can see we had more people watching :O)

I hope the Café turns out to watch the second to support and vote. We can still convince those to watch by showing our own enthusiam. I'm really curious what the next performance will bring.

John
Message: Posted by: The Great Stevini (Oct 25, 2007 02:51PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 15:14, Gianni wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:18, ALEXANDRE wrote:
Gianni,

I saw it with friends (laymen, six of them) and they WERE bored.
[/quote]

Alexandre:

I'm very happy you responded to my post. My question, then, is, do you know why your friends were bored? You see, my concern is that I felt the performers on this show provided nice quality performances. If they cannot hold your friends' interest and attention, then what would that take? I am concerned that if generally fine performers cannot hold the interest, then what hope have we for the future of mentalism as entertainment?

Gianni
[/quote]


I don't think many here thought the performances were boring, but as stated earlier the total performance time was only 12 minutes. I think many found the other 48 minutes boring.
Message: Posted by: Tod Todson (Oct 25, 2007 03:02PM)
Criss Angel,

Read this very C-L-O-S-E-L-Y.....

Last night you acted like a sad little man.

You hurt our art and you lost respect.

For the last two weeks I've been teaching children that magicians always respect one another.

Tonight I will have to try and explain why you would act the way you did to your own brothers.

On behalf of many here, either earn your right or leave the show.

Do not continue to hurt our art.

It's embarrasing to have to defend you to young children wanting to be magicians, too.

Signed,
Tod Torrent
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 25, 2007 03:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 15:14, Gianni wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:18, ALEXANDRE wrote:
Gianni,

I saw it with friends (laymen, six of them) and they WERE bored.
[/quote]

Alexandre:

I'm very happy you responded to my post. My question, then, is, do you know why your friends were bored? You see, my concern is that I felt the performers on this show provided nice quality performances. If they cannot hold your friends' interest and attention, then what would that take? I am concerned that if generally fine performers cannot hold the interest, then what hope have we for the future of mentalism as entertainment?

Gianni
[/quote]

A show like this has never been done before so I say it's just the way the show was set up. It needs to be tweaked a little to better benefit the quality of performers that are on there.
Message: Posted by: bugjack (Oct 25, 2007 03:10PM)
The Time Magazine TV critic linked to above (James Poniewozik, http://time-blog.com/tuned_in/) said it best for me. It's actually what I was trying to say pages earlier but this guy said it better:

"But hearing the judges, especially Angel, critique the tricks as tricks, the performances as performances, dispelled the illusion, or the illusionists. "You have a decent stage persona," Angel told one--mentioning, in passing, another magician whom Angel credited with pioneering the trick. "I just didn't feel you were 100% committed to who you are in your mind." Look, I'm sure there are few people in the audience who thought they were witnessing supernatural phenomena in an NBC show guest-starring Carmen Electra. But there's something kind of sad about taking an art based on wonder and focusing on the most non-wondrous, show-bizzy aspect of it."
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 25, 2007 03:20PM)
[quote]
A show like this has never been done before so I say it's just the way the show was set up. It needs to be tweaked a little to better benefit the quality of performers that are on there.
[/quote]

That same show has been done in Israel, and that version was much better and more believable than anything I've seen from the American one.

The main difference is that we didn't have that Criss hack, who always wants the attention just to himself. Another thing is that in Israel, Geller was the main judge and was only talking about the performances rather the techniques themselves. And was very fair toward the mentalists. There was another judge who I believe knows nothing about magic, so got to speak in a layman point of view. And was very fair toward the mentalists.

Add the fact that the performances were much longer in the original version (I believe some acts reached about 8-10 minutes air time) then you will see why NBC ruined the entire concept. Which is something that I already predicted a few weeks ago on this forum.
Message: Posted by: edh (Oct 25, 2007 03:22PM)
Tod, no need to defend CA. Use this as an example of how [b]NOT[/b] to treat your fellow magicians.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 03:24PM)
I taped the show last night and then watched it after the baseball game (GO Sox!). IMO the show was hugely dissapointing. More specifically, not one of the performers convinced me that they were doing anything extraordinary.

The first routine PK touches (loops) with the prediction at the end was anti-climatic and disjointed just as Chris Angel remarked.

The "comedy' bit with the hunters trap just sucked in terms of entertainment value. He didn't even bother trying to demonstrate that the trap worked as he did with the smaller version. There was no blood or any hint of pain or discomfort being felt by the performer.... he also slid out of the trap rather easily when the demonstration was finished don't you think?

The nail gun routine was another lousy act. The nails were too small for stage and didn't look dangerous enough for television. I wanted to throw up every time the camera panned to his Mother....good God that was awful! His presentation was like some bad cruise ship entertainer. I kept wanting to see him hurt himself with those silly nail guns.

The Human Phone number routine completely lacked emotional impact. This was dissapointing in a big way. The performer also seemed full of himself. His personality probably annoys many people. It makes sense that he's performing at Hooter's....his act was just as tacky the place he's performing at. This wonderful Bob Kohler creation came across as an insignificant parlor trick instead of an amazing mind reading feat.

I can't remember what the fifth person did so I guess that it didn't have much impact. Seeing a show like this made me appreciate the work that David Blaine did with his TV specials. There's just no comparison. Blaine's personna is so much more believable compared to this group of performers. The Phenomenon mentalists were too well rehearsed to the point of it being detrimental to the act itself. They literally sucked the life and emotion out of the action. IMO effective mentalism should have a touch of realism...there has to be some doubt that the performer won't get everything right. Not once did I ever suspect that this was going to happen. If these acts were on the Gong Show I would have been screaming for Jamie Farr to bang them off the show.

This show was managed very poorly... Two big Vernet thumb tips down!!!!

-Jared
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 25, 2007 03:28PM)
I have not seen this program because I just don’t watch TV very much. TV was referred as an idiot box when I was growing up. And from reading this thread, it seems accurate to say that this is the case!

I am going to say a few things and I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just feel that this needs to be said to help us grow and move forward in today’s entertainment arena.

I do not want to turn this into a mentalism against magician’s thread, so lets not go there. That kind of talk has never served any purpose to anyone. Instead, lets stand up straight and look each other in the eyes and turn this into a learning tool that we as entertainers can use. Used in a way that will improve and thrust us into the limelight.

Are you with me so far?

First, all that I am reading is how lame the performances were and that there were no time to connect with the spectators. Christ Angel is a person who is a know it all and really full of himself. And dam him for being so high and mighty. Is this the feeling that you guys are getting from reading this thread?

Why is it that mentalism plays so weak and seem to be very boring as it is displayed on this program.

On page 24 Corona Smith had a very interesting comment that I thought was enlighting. He said, “I haven't seen the show either. But I didn't like it either, it was too..... well, lets just say, 'American'.”

Please, Corona, explain 100% what you mean. I am not trying to start any name-calling or fights. This is not the first time that I have heard this statement. To improve, one must listen. We are listening Corona, tells us our mistakes or how we come across to others in this world.

Also I believe in the 3-minute rule when it comes to entertainment. I try to set up my effects and hit the big finish within 3 minutes. Of course not every effect can play within 3 minutes but that is the idea that I work toward when blocking my magic show.

Now Mentalism is a different animal. It seems that the mentalist have to take sooooo looooong to connect with the spectators to really have knock out effects! Anyway that is what I am reading here. I know that we have to connect with people and make them feel apart of the show and touch their emotions and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

What I am getting at, is maybe we need to find newer ways to connect faster. Maybe we as mentalists just like to hear our self’s talk and only think that we need a long buildup to 'sell' an effect. Maybe we need to loss most of the fluff and get on with the show!

You can say all you want about Christ Angel, but the fact is, that people REALLY think he is the best magician in the world! I have heard people calling him a real wizard. So TV and stooges and video cuts really have made him the top dog, and there isn’t anything we can say to stop it. The idea has already taken root in people’s minds that he is the best!

Maybe we, as mentalist need to grow up and join the human race in terms of how entertainment is being presented now.
Gone are the days of an entertainer taking forever to do one effect. This is the generation on MTV with it’s fast moving video and computer games with action coming at you every second.

Today’s audience is different and expects to be shocked and entertained NOW! They don’t want to sit and listen to someone that they know nothing about go on and on about this and that.

I feel that it is the time to bring mentalism forward. I have read this thread and YOU ALL ARE IN AGREEMENT that mentalism plays boring in this setting.

It is time to push the envelope and write a new 13 steps to Mentalism. We can hold on to the past and the great works that has been written, but we need to take a NEW STEP FORWARD!

I am tired of reading this thread and hearing you guys complain. We sound like children, but we are more then that. We are entertainers who have been slap in the face with the truth of how MENTALISM REALLY PLAYS ON TV. It totally looks really sad!

Why complain about it? Why not start another thread in ‘Inner Thoughts’ on how we as entertainers can IMPROVE own game.

We are at the 50-yard line with only one play left and 2 seconds left on the clock. What do you want to do? I say that we huddle up and brain storm together. No idea is ridiculous if it moves us all forward.

It is time for a NEW PLAY BOOK to be written.


Ray
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 03:36PM)
"We are entertainers who have been slap in the face with the truth of how MENTALISM REALLY PLAYS ON TV. It totally looks really sad!"

...Ray with all due respect. Derren Brown's Mind Control series plays really nicely on television. I find it most entertaining.

-Jared
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 25, 2007 03:38PM)
Sure, name another! It is his show and he is in control. He can set the effects up better. Not so with this TV program.
Message: Posted by: johne (Oct 25, 2007 03:39PM)
It is not that mentalism plays bad at all...competitive mentalism maybe. I would have rather seen a short question and answer or a few billet routines...

ElliottB where are you??? I think the propless routines would have played better in my opinion.

I would not say the performances were bad at all...they were good performances. I was expecting more "Phenomena" I guess. Moving objects, bleeding from the eyes, something strange. The PK routine was the closest to this feeling I wanted to see laymen get to watch.

John
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 03:44PM)
"Sure, name another! It is his show and he is in control. He can set the effects up better. Not so with this TV program"

I completely agree Ray. But again, I noted in my post that the format was a problem. Maybe this show might have been better if the performers were taped in performing environments that they had a little more control over.

-Jared
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Oct 25, 2007 03:49PM)
One example is enough. If it works it works.

Derren even put out his stage performance on t.v. which also worked.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 25, 2007 03:56PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 12:29, LAW4D8 wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 11:53, Hoff Man wrote:

Would you tune in next week if you had no prior interest in magic, mentalism or the personalities involved?


Steve

p.s. can’t say any more about CA that hasn’t already been said.
[/quote]

What is interesting to me -- is that my wife actually sat across the couch from me and said...

"If I wasn't married to you -- I wouldn't watch this show again..."

Unfortunately I think a lot of people feel this way...

Let's just hope J/J gets to light a few fires before NBC puts the end to this thing...
[/quote]

Exact same situation here. I was vastly underwhelmed by most of the evening. Excessive low points: CA being an arse, bear trap (just IMHO)
High point: Nail gun routine as it was the most entertaining, by far

Agree with Chuck Hickok and others about the time and inability to construct a linked performance.

Still really looking forward to Jim and some others but the show seemed like a train wreck in the first episode, here's looking forward to something better.

Finally, I respect all the performers and wish them all the best. Any criticism I have can be pointed towards the format of the show and what it does to the performances.
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 04:15PM)
Ray...Jared,
I have one other thing that no one has mentioned that makes the show what it is. Carbon copy, carbon copy carbon copy. What I mean is every performer has their intro and back-story filmed, edited, lit and created by the same 3 or 4 guys. So everyone looks monochromatic ( not literally ) I mean they all seem...very similar and flattens out the differences between all of them. You get no true flavor or taste of anyone. Again none of this it the performers faults. The problem I think everyone is discussing here is simply the production and what has gone wrong. The performers are having so much of this thrust upon them they really have very little ability to control it.

I will say this is a slight benefit to having be a live show....if it were taped and edited....forget about it. At least the performers know what you do on stage is what the audience and home viewers get....nothing edited or left out.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 25, 2007 04:16PM)
Part of the problem of "how mentalism plays on TV" is that it not been updated and adapted for the medium and today's society. That combined with NBC's control and influence over the tone of the show had a direct impact on the performers, their effects and even the audience and their response.

The dark, suspenseful, mysterious tone of the show felt very contribed and manufactured. So much so that it was too suspensful and heavy for the audience to applaud, laugh or express any emotion. It so reminded me of Who Wants To Be A Millioniare with the spotlights, dramatic cresendo-building music, and manufactured suspense. I felt this affected each performers ability to showcase their character which is so much a part of their set-up, believabilty and acceptance. Jim Karol's tone and humor was so stifled it was deafening, and Gerry's sense of humor was sucked out of his character as well. I applaud him for at least trying to appeal to the audience and a sense of humor with his remark about their lack of applause or expression. At least he made an attempt with the audience as if to say - lighten up, feel free to laugh, react, and have fun.

The entire thing was so dark, dramatic and suspenseful it removed the entertainment value to both the audience and viewers. I was so hoping that John Archer would have walked out with his sense of humor and bring things to life.

NBC seems to have decided that there was only one possible tone for Mentalsists and everyone's performances must somehow find success in that tone. This made it very one dimensional for me.

I also think this has a lot ot do with those who say mentalism doesn't play well on TV. Both mentalism and hypnosis are much more of an experience when seen live in person. They must be adapted to the medium of TV.

I too was approached about taking part in this show. As a matter of fact between emails and phone calls probably over a dozen different coorespondences from three differnt casting reps. I felt something like this would happen because of the current trend of dark, gothic and street-style of presentation. Even the mini-bio were all shot with that tone. This made it all unbelievable for me. The very basic element of entertainment must be making it fun, interesting and whenever possible interactive which was blantanly missing from this show.

Mentalism must be entertaining for the audience not mystifying or impressive for the performer or those in charge. If properly executed the nature of mentalism itself will deliver those elements.

It is for this reason and the overall combining of magic and mentalism that I chose not to participate without regret. I offer the best to all of the contestants for having to try to execute their talent and our art under such restrictions and control of the production, not to mention the condescending criticism and tone of CA.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 04:22PM)
Yep!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 04:26PM)
Some points:

1. Can anyone here visualize Richard Osterlind performing any effect of his, on any video of his, in the TV slot alloted to the mentalists on Phenomenon?

2. How would Richard's performance stack up?

3. Why must some posts be as long-winded as their mentalism presentations probably are? Not [i]all[/i] of us are boring - don't blame the art form for that.

Arnon

P.S. And who are you, Mindpro? Your profile doesn't reveal your identity, and you are a new user.
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 25, 2007 04:32PM)
We as entertainers must entertain! If we can't pull something like this off, then what kind of entertainers are we?

Other entertainers, who are not mentalists, could pull this off, WHY NOT mentalists?

Are we not entertainers FIRST and mentalists second? Where is the entertainment?

Is it because we are not suited for this type of forum or is it because we are lazy? We will NEVER grab that brass ring unless we get with the program and re-invent ourselves.

I am just trying to wake people up so that they can smell the coffee. As I stated in my above post, I am going to say things that needs to be said.

Like it or not we can’t compete in this type of arena. We will always get our balls handed back to us unless we can change. I am not taking anything away from the people who have or will appear on this program. We all know who they are and know that they are solid in their material. But, we can now see that this may not be the best showcase for mentalism!

instead of moving forward, I now hear excuses. The velocity of an excuse is zero.

We are big boys playing in this sandbox. It seems to me that the mentalists are being pushed out of this sandbox. Don’t you guys want to play? I sure do and want to learn new ways to compete with the boys in the sandbox. This isn’t the time to start making excuses. I think that it may be time to roll up our sleeves and get to work!

Don’t you see the painting on the wall? It is dripping. Lets repaint it!

We had a saying when I was in the Army, ‘Adaptability and flexibility’. This was the key to winning a battle. Don’t you see this as a battle of an upcoming war? Who will want to hire mentalists after seeing this program? I sure wouldn’t want to! That magic guy down the street is looking better and better….. Let’s change and grow.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 04:38PM)
Could we have answered the burning question of why the names avoided this like a vampire avoids garlic or Madonna avoids soap?
Message: Posted by: WhateverUnique (Oct 25, 2007 04:39PM)
Well the episode is up on NBC now...so if anyone missed it or wanted to watch criss shout out the PK and B words again...and they *** thing stops and loads commercials for the Navy...what asses
Message: Posted by: chichi711 (Oct 25, 2007 04:39PM)
Yes Danny it has been answered. I am still keeping hope that Jim brings something exciting. I think the shows format limits any of these guys though.
Message: Posted by: cfrye (Oct 25, 2007 04:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 17:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Could we have answered the burning question of why the names avoided this like a vampire avoids garlic or Madonna avoids soap?
[/quote]

Because the names didn't have absolute control over their performing circumstances. They were limited to enacting someone else's vision, not their own.



Curt
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 05:03PM)
I KNEW THE ANSWER, I was just trying to end the speculation is all!

I was pointing out that it was not them at fault, but the concept and execution, which is entirley in the court of the network. Good move staying away guys!
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 25, 2007 05:05PM)
Yup Danny, I agree. Now, what I am waiting for is all the people who kept asking why the stars stayed away or how "talent always wins" (regardless of conditions) to respond. I'd love to hear them admit they were wrong. However, part of being adversarial as they were is never admitting you were wrong.

Or am I wrong?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 05:22PM)
Part of telling the truth is admitting when you made a mistake and find the actual truth.

The bomb throwers here will never admit they are wrong.

I bet we hear from at least one right soon.
Message: Posted by: christiancagigal (Oct 25, 2007 05:37PM)
I agree with Ray and Mindpro on most accounts(sorry if I don't have a lot of info on my profile,I guess that means I'm not a really performer). Most mentalists think they are being deep or connecting by taking longer but, the ones that seem to believe that, are the ones who very rarely go 'deep' into anything including themselves. To go deep and then make it enthralling is a whole other skill separate from NLP or a billet peak.

Now truly a lot of people think Criss is the real deal but just as many think he's well.....a dweeb. Overly 'cool' and egotistical and they don't buy a single thing he does.

The same thing goes for Derren in the UK (I'm a huge fan of Derren's but the laypeople from the UK who I have spoken to over the past year couldn't careless about him.)

Blaine seemed to garner much more respect in his first year or so of TV specials and then he became well.....a dweeb. He seemed to believe his own 'Jesus-complex' he was creating and many Blaine fan's stopped watching or caring about him and his stunts.

I think this is part of what Ray and Mindpro were getting at in the comment. If our ego's as performers don't get out of the way of the performance nobody will want to watch our performance and nobody watching our performance is equal to the sound of one hand clapping......

Now as a culture we've thrown around the term 'MTV' Style for about as long as MTV has been around. But the fact of the matter is not as many young people really watch MTV as we used to 'back in the day' because there are soooo many other options like Myspace, Facebook, Chatrooms, On Demand etc etc. The reason for many of these options being so popular is because either A) They give us what we want now. Or B) We ourselves get to generate the content instead of waiting for someone to give us what we want. And, (believe it or not you older guys) it is a new way for many people to connect with each other. If you need proof of that just realize that you are on an Internet chatroom reading the ramblings of 'who-ever -this -guy-thinks - he-is'. In other words the content is relevant to you the viewer partaking in it and you are connecting with others you otherwise would never have met.

Funny enough while reaching heights of ADD and ADHD style TV and Internet, our prime-time programing as gotten much better, richer, even 'slower' at times. Except people don't always have the time to watch it in our every crazy world so instead we rent and buy box sets of seasons of shows and then watch them allllll daaayyy loooonnngggg.
We watch one thing! ALL DAY LONG! Not very MTV at heart. But it shows we are willing to invest time and attention if we think (out of all the options in our world ) this one will give us something we want or need in some way.

So what the hell am I babbling about while trying to avoid doing any work today.
Fast cuts that impress young folks really don't mean anything anymore. MTV doesn't mean as much any more. MTV isn't the proper term anymore. Fast isn't better in entertainment magic or mentalism. What really matters, what really truly matters to all laypeople and audience members is............

"something worth watching!!! Something worth my time because I have a busy life and if it isn't interesting and or entertaining, no, I should say again enthralling an d maybe even relevant to my world, then I'm not going to bother wasting my time anymore with your silly little presentations!!"

This is a problem in all walks of magic, mental, bizzare etc etc.

Taking ones sweet time to set up a situation is absolutely fine. But most aren't capable of making it work and even few are capable of make us care at all about the person, presentation or the effect.

That's what needs to be worked on in our craft. Making anybody care about numbers, phone books, touching's. Sometimes that means going slower if need be.Other times that means speed it up and create a direct through line to the end of the effect. Proper presentation at the proper time in the proper way but in the end if we want people to pay attention; if we want anybody to stop their life to watch our shows or pay us money for doing what we do then we have to make them care!

Many times even the best among us can't do that........
How do we change this......?

Alright sorry about all that.....

Crazy Rambling Over,
Christian Cagigal
Message: Posted by: christiancagigal (Oct 25, 2007 05:41PM)
Does that make me a bomb thrower.....?

(actually I was responding to earlier stuff, didn't see these last two...if that makes me a bomn thrower well...so be it.)

-C
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 05:48PM)
I was speaking more of our more experienced bomb throwers.
Message: Posted by: RileyG (Oct 25, 2007 06:02PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 14:18, ALEXANDRE wrote:
I made my best effort to get them to watch next week. We'll see.
[/quote]

You and I should be glad we turned the show down to appear on it...
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 25, 2007 06:03PM)
Christiancagigal,
Thanks for writting that. You hit the nail on the head.

We do need to step back and re-look at our craft/art.

This might be the start of a new outlook on mentalism. I can only hope that it is.

Lets give our spectators a reason to WATCH us!

Best
Ray
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (Oct 25, 2007 07:31PM)
We are so full of ourselves, these guys were performing in an environment that would make most on this board wet their pants, look we do not create miracles we are entertainers. These performers treaded in areas that few before them have walked before. It was a gutsy move by all of them and for the members here to bash their performance I would wager if none here could do better in this environment. We wonder why so many audiences think our craft sucks & should be done mostly for children & maybe free table side entertainment(no disrespect to either group I perform both), we do not even appreciate the effort our cohorts place fourth. Darren Brown appeals to so many mentalits because his performances are new & fresh to us, their performances are new to the televion audience & Darren has a full show to develope a rapport & a story line these performers have 5 minutes. The success of these performers hinge so much on the staging of the production team & what they feel would appeal to a mass audience. They wanted Angel's holier than thou persona to be the Simon on the show. the easiest & quickest way to improve this show is by changing the guest audience members, they have to deal with one who could care less, one who is clueless & another who is just well ..... I can't count the number of time individuals here have wined about spectators who were apathetic to their performance, now imagine that in front of several million people. Oh and Jared there were only 4 participants.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 25, 2007 07:38PM)
The Judges that should have been:

1) Some English guy who is a theatre director

2) Eugene Burger

3) Teller

4) Blaine


The Guests that should have been:

1) Jane Seymore (Solitaire)

2) Iman

3) Claudia Shiffer

4)
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 25, 2007 07:41PM)
Banachek would have been a great judge.
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 25, 2007 07:53PM)
The fault of this show is not that Mentalism doesn't work on television. It has in the past, it does today with Derren Brown and others.

The fault is in the concept of the show, which is something I pointed out in one of the earliest threads after this show was first announced.

The Performers involved must accept some responsibility, for they all agreed to the format. If their performances come off badly because of the limitations placed on them by the program, or by being "judged" harshly by Criss Angel, they have no one to blame but themselves. No one made them take part. Others turned down the "opportunity". The show exists in the format and structure it does because they found 8 Mentalists who agreed to perform under those conditions.

Here's hoping those remaining will learn from watching the first four go down in flames, and adapt. At the very least, if they see themselves being thrown on the pyre, I hope that they speak up and take Angel down with them. At least then they'd get the 15 minutes of fame they seek, instead of 3 minutes of doing what they're told to do, followed by Angel and Geller telling them what's wrong with their acts.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 08:02PM)
I agree tboehnlein that it took guts for these performers to perform in this difficult envirnoment but fame and fortune always has a price tag doesn't it? Somebody on this show is going to walk away from this wreckage and stand to gain significant financial rewards. It's a risk that the majority of us would probably take if given the opportunity.

-Jared
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 08:09PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 21:02, Jared wrote:
I agree tboehnlein that it took guts for these performers to perform in this difficult envirnoment but fame and fortune always has a price tag doesn't it? Somebody on this show is going to walk away from this wreckage and stand to gain significant financial rewards. It's a risk that the majority of us would probably take if given the opportunity.

-Jared
[/quote]

Here is where I disagree.

Yep win and you have financial rewards. But I would NEVER risk this sort of thing and it has nothing to do with guts or not.

It has to do with knowing the limitations that they are slapping you with. It is why so many of the "names" have avoided this like the plague. Why risk anything under these circumstances.

Whoever said we are entertainers is rigth. BUT these guys did not manage to entertain. I think that the medium that they are thrown in cuts the legs out from under them. It is not really fair.

I would hesitate to judge any of them as entertainers based ONLY on this program. Good or bad is tough to tell.
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 08:20PM)
As arnon mentioned earlier, it would be interesting to see what Osterlind would have performed, and I even wonder how he would have been as a judge. His name was the first thing to pop into me head when I first heard about this show - now I couldn't be happier that his good name is nowhere near this debacle.

Incidently, I'm not convinced that mentalism wouldn't play well on TV - while I've never seen Derren Brown (where can I find him?), I think Osterlind is quite entertaining even just on his instructional DVD's, which, of course, are viewed on a TV. I've shown the perfomance segments to close friends, who have confirmed my suspicions that they would find it entertaining...

But, the format of the show, the over-the-topness of it all, well, it was just lame. I certainly don't feel it's the fault of the performers, but ultimately, this show was not good television. My girlfriend (who is definitely a layman, except for the TT she found in my pocket while washing my jeans - what a sweetie)thought the show sucked. So did my co-worker who told me about the show in the first place.

For the folks who haven't seen the show - you really should watch it. I'm not saying you'll be entertained, but you should at least see it so as to know what the general public is being exposed to as far as mentalists go. (By the way, I don't think the lay audience knows or particularly cares about the distinction between "mentalist" and "magician." What they do care about is "entertainment." We shouldn't forget that.)

I really can't say anything about Chris Angle (yes, "Angle," as in camera angle)that hasn't already been said. His "look what I can do!" attitude is so lame. Some of my lay friends think he's simply an arrogant pr*ck. I've never met the guy, but I agree that he comes off that way. I thought entertainers were supposed to be likable? Oh, wait...that's just for entertainers who want to actually have lenghty careers. Let's see how long Mr. Angle lasts in the public eye. I for one hope I never again have to look at him trying to cover the camera lense with his mouth. Dude, quit biting the camera! Save that view for your dentist, weirdo!

-Mike
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 08:21PM)
"Yep win and you have financial rewards. But I would NEVER risk this sort of thing and it has nothing to do with guts or not."

....Good point. Everyone should be entitled to decide what's best for themselves. We all have are own personal goals. These performers however elected to take a chance and with that comes some risk.

-Jared
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 08:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 21:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 21:02, Jared wrote:
I agree tboehnlein that it took guts for these performers to perform in this difficult envirnoment but fame and fortune always has a price tag doesn't it? Somebody on this show is going to walk away from this wreckage and stand to gain significant financial rewards. It's a risk that the majority of us would probably take if given the opportunity.

-Jared
[/quote]

Here is where I disagree.

Yep win and you have financial rewards. But I would NEVER risk this sort of thing and it has nothing to do with guts or not.

It has to do with knowing the limitations that they are slapping you with. It is why so many of the "names" have avoided this like the plague. Why risk anything under these circumstances.

Whoever said we are entertainers is rigth. BUT these guys did not manage to entertain. I think that the medium that they are thrown in cuts the legs out from under them. It is not really fair.

I would hesitate to judge any of them as entertainers based ONLY on this program. Good or bad is tough to tell.
[/quote]

As usual, Danny - well said.

-Mike
Message: Posted by: Marc Spelmann (Oct 25, 2007 08:26PM)
Dito, the format is flawed and makes mentalism something to be judged when the reality is mentalism is to be experienced..

Well said Danny..

Spelmann
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 25, 2007 08:33PM)
Lot's of Armchair Quarterbacking by those who are not playing the game. The first quarter isn't even over yet. Hide and watch......
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 08:38PM)
Slim I have to say this.

I have offered to eat my words and I will do so gladly.

Unfortunatly it has not worked out that way and it is unfolding exactly as was expected.

Funny part though is when people like the defenders say things like you just did you do it in such a demeaning way, and you want to sound so superior, but oddly enough when you are wrong, as with the premier, where is the "Sorry I was wrong"?

You can't wait to call others names and say things like "armchair quarterbacking" thinking it is clever. BUT when those are proven to be right, you remain oddly silent. Kind of puts your agenda in perspective if you ask me.

And notice that it is the formula we find flawed, NOT the performers. We are taking shots at NOBODY. I don't believe many could come across well in this environment. But go ahead keep taking shots at people and throwing bombs.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 08:42PM)
I am not being sarcastic.
I did not audition because I did not feel that I was mystical enough. I also thought that I was not entertaining enough.
I think that I am entertaining, but certainly not one of the top 10 in the world in this field.
I liked the things that the guys did and do not know that I could have done any better.
The only thing that really fooled me was the revelation of the name Jeff Goldblum.
I did not like the way that Criss Angel acted and think that I am a better magician than he.
I think that it is not good for us to unduly critique other magicians unless they are "cheating."
I want to see next week's show.
I admire the guys and lady who are working here and hope that this helps their careers.
I would like to see all of these performers live.
Parson
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 25, 2007 08:43PM)
I liked the poem, Parson.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 08:45PM)
Thanks
Message: Posted by: Eddie Garland (Oct 25, 2007 08:51PM)
Parson Smith rules!
I want to hug you.
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 25, 2007 08:54PM)
Parson,

You nailed what most of us are thinking. Maybe YOU should have auditioned after all. LOL

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 09:05PM)
Sorry Eddie. I don't go for Dummies.
Hope that is not Politically Incorrect.

Parson

But you are cute.
Message: Posted by: Magical Dimensions (Oct 25, 2007 09:12PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 21:33, Slim King wrote:
Lot's of Armchair Quarterbacking by those who are not playing the game. The first quarter isn't even over yet. Hide and watch......
[/quote]

What is there to quarterback? We all can see how mentalism is playing to the TV viewers! Facts are facts and seeing is believing.

You can go and hide, but for me, I rather stand and face it head on. This way I will be able to see what needs to be changed and improve for this type of work.

I look at this as a lesson that we all need to learn from.

As far as I can tell, noone has said anything bad about the performers. It is the type of show/arena that we are talking about. What can we do to play better in this type of program? Tells us Mr. Slim, cause, as you can tell by my other posts, I really DO WANT TO KNOW!

Here is the ball, what are you going to do with it?


Ray
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 09:21PM)
Magical Dimensions wrote:
"As far as I can tell, noone has said anything bad about the performers."

You may want to go back and read the thread.
There were some really NASTY things said about the performers.

Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 09:28PM)
Ray what is the matter with you? Don't you know that everyone is great and every idea has merit and everyone is always a success?

Who are you going to believe me or your own lyin eyes? Come on man you can use facts to prove anything that is even remotly true. What good will they do us?

We just need to keep our eyes closed and just say everything is good and then all will work out.

Say anything else and you are called names, made fun of and told that you are being negative.

I agree the ball is in his court, lets see how he spins it to take a shot at me.
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 09:47PM)
Ray, didn't you say earlier that you haven't even seen the show? Have you had a chnace to view it since then?

And, yes, plenty of negative things have been said about the performers. However, my take on it is that noone is blaming the perfomers alone for the debacle that this show is.

I've definitely heard more about Criss Angle (sic) ruining the show than the performers. People just don't like tuning in to watch arrogant entertainers, even if they're playing the part of a judge. An argument could be made that American Idol has great success, in spite of Simon Cowell. But, Simon is not an entertainer (i.e. one of the contestant's peers) - he is a qualified businessman in the music industry, and while he may be a tad on the blunt side, at least he doesn't act like he's a better performer. It's an important distinction.

And yes, we should all learn from this show. A lot.

-Mike
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 25, 2007 09:49PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 17:26, arnon wrote:
Some points:

1. Can anyone here visualize Richard Osterlind performing any effect of his, on any video of his, in the TV slot alloted to the mentalists on Phenomenon?

2. How would Richard's performance stack up?

3. Why must some posts be as long-winded as their mentalism presentations probably are? Not [i]all[/i] of us are boring - don't blame the art form for that.

Arnon

[/quote]

A delay but I would have loved seeing RO on stage in Phen. And I can visualize it also. He makes a great connection to any audience he performs for and has performed mentalism/magic for huge audiences live.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 09:52PM)
I felt a shot across my bow.
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 09:53PM)
I dunno - I'm a big fan of Osterlind, but the format of the show might have been more than he'd want to tackle. And I just can't stand the thought of him having to listen to CA's opinion...

-Mike
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 09:55PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 22:52, Parson Smith wrote:
I felt a shot across my bow.
[/quote]

Who's shooting?

By the way, I liked your earlier post a lot...

-Mike
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (Oct 25, 2007 09:57PM)
[quote]We all can see how mentalism is playing to the TV viewers![/quote]

We all can see how a three minute routine with heavy constraints plays to the TV viewers. In the context of a longer show there are many more variables.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 25, 2007 09:59PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 22:53, HeyLockwood wrote:
I dunno - I'm a big fan of Osterlind, but the format of the show might have been more than he'd want to tackle. And I just can't stand the thought of him having to listen to CA's opinion...

-Mike
[/quote]

Hey, he may have been asked and turned it down, who knows. If the time limit was increased, a telepathy routine like Kreskin does involving several audience members I think would work nicely. One of his releases I have done and worked well with involving the audience seated then standing at their seats works well. But then again, this all about the producers and CA which seems to be forefront. CA is a big draw and NBC will be counting on him and next week to pull it through.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:01PM)
Mike,
Not you.
I felt that it was being said that that I thought that everyone was great.
It may not be that way.
May have just been the order of the post.

But to set the record straight...
I think that some performers stink.
But I do not remember seeing some of the harshest critics here perform.
Perhaps they were very forgettable, but if I have seen them, they were not as memorable as any of last night's four performers.
What I am saying is the loudest critics have not impressed me all that much.

Parson
Message: Posted by: baggins321 (Oct 25, 2007 10:05PM)
I enjoyed the show for the most part, because I didn't have any expectations for it. Unfortunately none of the routines I saw were original, but variations of classic effects. My favorite two were the pk touch routine and the bullet catch variation with nail guns. I thought Criss was a good critical judge (kind of like simon cowell from american idol), while Uri was mostly positive about everyone's performance (like Paula from american idol). I liked how Criss talked about Banachek and gave him credit for the pk touch routine etc. I didn't like how he was a bit egotistical like mentioning how he did bullet catch with a real gun etc. I look forward to next week's show!
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 10:09PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 22:59, Candini wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 22:53, HeyLockwood wrote:
I dunno - I'm a big fan of Osterlind, but the format of the show might have been more than he'd want to tackle. And I just can't stand the thought of him having to listen to CA's opinion...

-Mike
[/quote]

Hey, he may have been asked and turned it down, who knows. If the time limit was increased, a telepathy routine like Kreskin does involving several audience members I think would work nicely. One of his releases I have done and worked well with involving the audience seated then standing at their seats works well. But then again, this all about the producers and CA which seems to be forefront. CA is a big draw and NBC will be counting on him and next week to pull it through.
[/quote]

I'm with you - but, like you said, it would probably need a time extension. I would love nothing more than for Osterlind to go out there and blow people away. But, the way the show is structured, I can't imagine he would touch it.

I think the producers know what they want, but not how to get it.

-Mike
Message: Posted by: ted french (Oct 25, 2007 10:11PM)
Does anyone else think the lifetime version was more entertaining. I hate to say it but the psychics who are not magicians always seem more convincing.
Message: Posted by: HeyLockwood (Oct 25, 2007 10:15PM)
Parson, I didn't see it (the shot across your bow), but either way I'm glad it wasn't me. :)

-Mike
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:17PM)
Me too
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 25, 2007 10:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:01, Parson Smith wrote:
Mike,
Not you.
I felt that it was being said that that I thought that everyone was great.
It may not be that way.
May have just been the order of the post.

But to set the record straight...
I think that some performers stink.
But I do not remember seeing some of the harshest critics here perform.
Perhaps they were very forgettable, but if I have seen them, they were not as memorable as any of last night's four performers.
What I am saying is the loudest critics have not impressed me all that much.

Parson
[/quote]

PLEASE get this sir. I was NOT FIRING AT YOU. No way no how.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 25, 2007 10:19PM)
Hasn't anybody watched Osterlind's No Camera Tricks DVD set? He's a seasoned pro that teaches how to do mentalism on television. Watch and learn from the master himself. I just don't buy this bit about mentalism not working on television. The format is a big problem with the Phenomenon, but the performers could have elevated their game as well.

-Jared
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:19PM)
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:22PM)
I love Richard's work.
And he is, in my eyes, a wonderful person.
I don't know how he would have done in this setting, but for professional reasons, I can see why he would not do it.
He has a huge business marketing to magicians. Something like this going wrong could damage his business.

Parson
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 10:29PM)
Parson:

I agree with you about Richard Osterlind.

And I [i]also[/i] think Gerry McCambridge made a bad career move to opt for being on the show. He had [i]way[/i] too much to lose, unlike the other 9.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:31PM)
Arnon,
You may be right.

BTW, No shot fired.
None taken.

Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 25, 2007 10:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:22, Parson Smith wrote:
I don't know how he would have done in this setting, but for professional reasons, I can see why he would not do it.
He has a huge business marketing to magicians. Something like this going wrong could damage his business.

Parson
[/quote]

Richard plays to a real world. He would have been great. Thing is, he has nothing to prove.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 10:49PM)
I don't know, Steven.
In Richard's world, he calls the shots.
I think that the producers are calling the shots here.
I wish Richard would show up and tell us himself.
Peace,
Parson
Message: Posted by: Review King (Oct 25, 2007 10:54PM)
I've always loved seeing kreskin on TV. Mentalism is entertianing. "Phenomenon" is not showing it in the format that brings that out.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 25, 2007 10:54PM)
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 25, 2007 11:00PM)
He's posted his opinion on another forum.

Kreskin would've been a good judge.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Oct 25, 2007 11:08PM)
Jared,
I completely agree with your assessment of Phenomenon.

Just to be clear, the phone book routine was not really HPN. The only real similarity is the use of
signs. Not that I'd actually waste time and energy to vote but it certainly wouldn't get my vote.

HPN has more subtle methods for a multitude of situations and presentational tips that consistenly get
great reactions.

Maybe another one of the contestants will actually do the "real thing!" That would be interesting...
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 25, 2007 11:08PM)
IMO the whole premise of the show is flawed.It's like asking a talented musician to play a few notes..or asking an accomplished sculptor to create something beautiful in a few minutes...and then judgeing the results against other artists.[No real evidence of the 'efficacy' of the Artists or of the particular Art is possible in such a short time segment.


I praise the accomplished performers who decided not to participate,but I also commend the performers who jumped in and went for it for whatever reason.I also wish them well now that they are part of it.

Go Jim C.!

Rich
Message: Posted by: mormonyoyoman (Oct 25, 2007 11:12PM)
You're right - Richard has nothing to prove. And he would have nothing to gain from this TV show -- other than perhaps a chance of putting Criss Angel on the spot. Also, there is undoubtedly a concern of conflict of interest. He was a credited advisor during Angel's first season.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 25, 2007 11:13PM)
Nice post Rich. IN another venue, they would have all been appreciated much much more. Well said.

I heard Uri on Coast to Coast AM last night. He said CA bought his mother, girl friend and Mindfreak helpers to the show and Uri met them all. He had nothing but praise of him and the perfomers. He of course rated one above them all but IMO he made the right choice but I really did not think he was over critical of anyone like CA was. Perhaps CA will tame down somewhat for next week.

He also said CA just signed a 250 million dollar deal with a Vegas hotel.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 25, 2007 11:23PM)
So after all that been said about the format, the judges, and flaws, of those on this week's show who would get your vote and why?
Message: Posted by: RileyG (Oct 25, 2007 11:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:13, Candini wrote:
He also said CA just signed a 250 million dollar deal with a Vegas hotel.
[/quote]

That's the LUXOR Casino...
Message: Posted by: Roth (Oct 25, 2007 11:27PM)
I like Uri. He blew my mind when I was 10 years old. I ran to the kitchen drawer to see if the forks were bending.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 11:31PM)
I bet that the forks didn't bend, but tiny spikes grew out of the teaball.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 25, 2007 11:35PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:31, Parson Smith wrote:
I bet that the forks didn't bend, but tiny spikes grew out of the teaball.
[/quote]

Parson...you are in a class of your own... :lol:
Message: Posted by: Alewishus (Oct 25, 2007 11:38PM)
The show sucked.
It's L.C.D. stuff.
I'm glad that I live in a time when I have the luxury of having a machine watch this crap for me.


A.

I hope Johnny Thompson has a will, he's lost touch really, though I'm sure it will surely be contested - how did he hook up with such a tool?
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 11:43PM)
JT is 2 b at ICBM.
Maybe some of you could question him about the tool.
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 25, 2007 11:48PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:08, PaleoMagi wrote:
IMO the whole premise of the show is flawed. It's like asking a talented musician to play a few notes..or asking an accomplished sculptor to create something beautiful in a few minutes...and then judgeing the results against other artists.[No real evidence of the 'efficacy' of the Artists or of the particular Art is possible in such a short time segment.


I praise the accomplished performers who decided not to participate,but I also commend the performers who jumped in and went for it for whatever reason.I also wish them well now that they are part of it.

Go Jim C.!

Rich
[/quote]

Right on. Years ago, there was a talent show called "Star Search". Comics had TWO MINUTES; that's it. Some great names graced that stage... and LOST. Among them were: Alanis Morissette, LeAnn Rimes, Dennis Miller, Christina Aguilera, Sinbad, Destiny's Child, Drew Carey, Ray Romano and... oh yeah, me. And while no one's heard of me, those other folks sure did ok for themselves. In fact, I lost the same day a comic friend of mine lost, as well. His name? Dave Chapelle. 2 minutes, folks. Imagine if a comic who was more of a storyteller, like Bill Cosby, had two minutes to prove to the world he was funny. One of the greatest comics of his or any generation would barely be getting to his first joke when he "got the light". PaleMagi is absolutely right. In fact, it is not only the premise of the show that is flawed, it is the entire execution of production. There's no "life" to it; no "urgency". The thrill is gone. In addition, it is impossible to pass definitive judgement on the performers, just as it was in two minute bites on "Star Search".
I do, however, think it is safe to say this about the wonderful Richard Osterlind: Had he done the show, at least he would have found a way to connect with the crowd. I don't believe there's a more "likeable" mentalist working today.
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 25, 2007 11:58PM)
If you are a comic why wasn't that last post funny??
Message: Posted by: gabelson (Oct 26, 2007 01:04AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:58, Parson Smith wrote:
If you are a comic why wasn't that last post funny??
[/quote]

I'm only funny on the clock.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Oct 26, 2007 01:05AM)
Ok I really wanted to watch this show, but I had to choose between that Oushing Daises, and Kid Nation. As I am married and enjoy both those other shows, I couldn't cath Phenomenom... So how was it. anything basic that was kinda like wow I cant believe he did that or was it a lot of mind blowing stuff, or even WOW the Editing team is at it again. If this is the wrong thread for this, let me know as well. Just curious about the show...
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 26, 2007 01:19AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 02:04, gabelson wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:58, Parson Smith wrote:
If you are a comic why wasn't that last post funny??
[/quote]

I'm only funny on the clock.
[/quote]

Now [i][b]that[/b][/i] was funny :lol:
Message: Posted by: Parson Smith (Oct 26, 2007 02:05AM)
Thank you.
Message: Posted by: RileyG (Oct 26, 2007 02:24AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:58, Parson Smith wrote:
If you are a comic why wasn't that last post funny??
[/quote]

I don't think the posters last message was suppose to be funny.... The late Davey Marlin-Jones hit the nail on the head in his P.E.A. lecture years ago when he said that present day audiences grew up in a Rolling Stones style of performances based upon the music of the times... No start, and no ending, just BAM right into the music and at the end it just stops... Today's audiences are a Fast Food generation and they have come to expect their food/service in one minute or less and this carries through to their watching any stage show/live entertainment...

Getting back to the show, the performers knew that they would be forced into Rapid Fire mentalism and this just leaves a very short time to have a beginning, middle and end to a routine/effect in the time frame given... This is bad in mentalism... I am of the Dunninger, Kreskin crowd... I say, lead your audience down your progressive path of ESP and not their Big Mac attack... My friend, Pasqual De Clermont gave a great lecture (notes/manuscript) on this very subject years ago at a P.E.A. convention as well..
Message: Posted by: archini (Oct 26, 2007 02:37AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 17:16, Mindpro wrote:
I was so hoping that John Archer would have walked out with his sense of humor and bring things to life.
[/quote]

Thanks Mindpro, I would love to have been involved if for nothing else than to spend some time working with Banachek, but since I don't take myself too seriously it's never going to happen. This sounds to me (I haven't seen the show) like they are trying to present this stuff as real rather than entertaining, and for some reason most people seem to have this idea that if you had some special powers you would suddenly lose you're sense of humour or power to entertain. In which case you might as well present it as a science show.

Shame that Bob hope, Jim Carey, George Burns or Robin William never gained the power of ESP (for real), they may have surprised people with how they presented it.

I'm interested to see how it pans out.

John
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 26, 2007 02:43AM)
RileyG:

Granted, there can be no "progressive path" in 3 minutes - not even in 6.

But this is akin to a genre that Mark Strivings called "Walk Around Mentalism" - each effect was punchy and to the point. Three of them made a set of about 10 minutes, perfect for each group "in that environment." It [i]is[/i], however, different in the audience size. Derren Brown seems to overcome that obstacle, creating intimacy even with a large audience.

You say that "This is bad in mentalism," and I say it depends on the environment. Don't expect to pull off the same effects in different environments. And just because you can't does [i]not[/i] mean that the mentalism you [i]can[/i] do is "bad." It is just different, and probably what you are not used to doing.

Jim/J ack realizes this - he says that he is creating suitable effects in the environment he is in. I hope he succeeds in doing so, as long as he doesn't [i]seriously[/i] claim that the effects are accomplished by supernatural forces.

Arnon
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 03:03AM)
In an interview with Segev he says that the show replaced one of the mentalists a few days ago. It it true or some misunderstanding?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 03:05AM)
But, of course...He will :) Reffering to Jim.......Because they are.

Yes, there was a change in the lineup.
Message: Posted by: Hill (Oct 26, 2007 03:07AM)
Man slim, when do you sleep?
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 03:12AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 04:05, Slim King wrote:

Yes, there was a change in the lineup.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-26 04:07, David Meade wrote:
Man slim, when do you sleep?
[/quote]


Maybe he's practicing his routine.. ;)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 03:24AM)
It's my aniversary....I'll be up all night...Just taking a breather :)
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 26, 2007 06:34AM)
From what I have heard and only heard from Jack's advert of his shows, he does claim real powers.

I wonder if CA will make a comment once again about it all being illusions of the real thing.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 26, 2007 07:26AM)
I am a member of other forums and I've read many performers comment so proudly and so in your face that they were "asked" to be on the show and "declined" and they "knew" it was going to be horrible, and they're so glad they "said no" and it had to be this way and it can't work and....

Mentalism on TV CAN work, it CAN be done, even as a competition!

At NBC, changes are being made, meetings, discussions ... as a viewer, don't give up on this yet.

And for the "many" who were ready to go and "begged" to be on and "flat turned it down" ... don't be so proud of yourselves just yet.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 26, 2007 07:44AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 03:43, arnon wrote:
I hope he succeeds in doing so, as long as he doesn't [i]seriously[/i] claim that the effects are accomplished by supernatural forces.

Arnon
[/quote]

Arnon, let me post this question to you because I know you will give me a qualified answer:

As an entertainer, on stage or in character couldn't you really claim anything?

I wonder if my performing character was an alien, if people would be so uptight about debunking me. Would Randi?

Many people believe in aliens and if I went on TV for a show or interviews and said I was born in Jupiter and brought to earth when I was just a little boy, etc, and then demonstrated what I was able to do with my mind, why is that not acceptable? No disclaimers.

You see certain comedians who every time they show up in public are "in character". Why does this have to be different for Mentalists or Paranormalists? So it's ok for people to think you're crazy and irresponsible and even a danger but not someone with powers? Why?

When Pee Wee Herman was big, how many of us saw him out of character? How about Kreskin?

Just asking because I can't keep my secret any longer, I came from a distant planet many of you have not heard of before and I do have powers, many powers, powers most of you wouldn't even understand.
Message: Posted by: Tone (Oct 26, 2007 08:14AM)
I always felt that you were an alien...it all comes together!
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 26, 2007 08:24AM)
Lots of Aliens in South Florida, I hear.

- entity
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 26, 2007 09:01AM)
John Archer - it was great having you at Mindvention this year. I think the humor and presentation you bring to mentalism shows that mentalism can be entertaining and fun. If nothing else I hope your ideas have made some people think and realize this point.

One of the things I enjoy about Richard Osterlinds work is his ability to incorporate his sense of humor and character into each effect he presents. This is part of entertaining.

This is a lesson I have learned in my over 30 years of being a full-time entertainer that I think gets lost on many. I understand the background and presentation of mentalism is to a bit mystifying and amazing but it must be entertaining to the audience or the performer is simply just performing for and impressing themselves. I don't care what type of entertainer you are if it plays too seriously it can easily be received as uninteresting, boring or lacking and not very entertaining. What John Archer, The Amazing Jonathan and others bring to their craft is the combimation of their skill with true entertainment value.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Oct 26, 2007 09:12AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:54, arnon wrote:
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
[/quote]

I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.

The only way I would be involved in such a show would be as follows: (and call this a challenge if you want)

The stage setting would be exactly as it is for Phenomenon. The audience would be made up of random people who have had no contact with any of the contestants. (Celebrities would be welcomed) A panel of 3 judges from different areas of show business and who have no personal interest in any of the contestants would oversee the proceedings. Criss Angel, Uri Geller and I would each come out and perform for 20 to 30 minutes. The show would be live and the rules would state there be absolutely no pre-show work, no camera editing and no stooges or backstage assistants. Then, with the help of the judge’s comments, the home audience would vote on who they liked the most.

Is that fair?

Richard
Message: Posted by: entity (Oct 26, 2007 09:24AM)
Geller and Angel would never agree. They have nothing to gain by becoming contestants instead of judges.

But it would be a better all-around presentation of Mentalism than what we're seeing on Phenomenon thus far, no doubt.

- entity
Message: Posted by: JPK (Oct 26, 2007 10:11AM)
Good morning Mr.Osterlind.
Your idea for the show sound like it would be fun to watch. I wonder if Uri or Chris would agree to such a event?
I watched the show and came away with the feeling that I would like to see these performers doing their acts live the way they normaly work. I felt they were serverly hampered by the constrains of the shows format. Hopefully others felt the same way and that would be good the performers at least.
The show itself seemed confused. What was the purpose?
On one hand it seemed like they were trying to debunk claims of the paranormal, with Chris being the guy just waiting for someone to claim to have such powers so he could point out the name of the published trick, while claiming he does it better. Of course, not one of the acts made such a claim. I guess Chris didn't notice that, and just decided to let them know that that he's better.
On the other hand, it seemed like a Mentalist competition. But the setting was all wrong. It was like watching a tennis match underwater. Actually, it was more like watching a chess match that had to be wrapped up in 3 minutes.
The choice of judges as just wrong. Let these people interact with an audience of laymen and let them judge the performances. This isn't suposed to be Star Search is it? These performers are already professionals. If they are looking for tips from other pros they certainly do not need to get them in front of a laymen audience do they? I guess NBC felt they needed to have celebrity judges and people for the mentalists to interact with to draw an audience. I guess they didn't have enough confidence in the actual performers to draw and hold and audiences attention. I feel they are wrong.
I knew something was fundalmentaly wrong with the show when I came away with the feeling that Uri was coming off very good. Other then his interactive ESP effect, that he almost blew. I wonder if he realized while projecting his thought he pointed to the circle? Could be why that scored as high as it did in the center position.
Oh well. I will watch it again with little hope that they can correct the annoying parts of the show. I will focus on the performers and hopefully get to see them do their shows live somewhere in the right setting.
JPK
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 26, 2007 10:18AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 10:12, Richard Osterlind wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:54, arnon wrote:
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
[/quote]

I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.

The only way I would be involved in such a show would be as follows: (and call this a challenge if you want)

The stage setting would be exactly as it is for Phenomenon. The audience would be made up of random people who have had no contact with any of the contestants. (Celebrities would be welcomed) A panel of 3 judges from different areas of show business and who have no personal interest in any of the contestants would oversee the proceedings. Criss Angel, Uri Geller and I would each come out and perform for 20 to 30 minutes. The show would be live and the rules would state there be absolutely no pre-show work, no camera editing and no stooges or backstage assistants. Then, with the help of the judge’s comments, the home audience would vote on who they liked the most.

Is that fair?

Richard
[/quote]

Your question was, "Is that fair?".

The answer is absolutly not.

You are a far better entertainer than either one of them or both combined for that matter.

IF you let them combine their scores you are now getting to "fair". LOL. From a bookie standpoint that is.
Message: Posted by: ralphwaldoemerson (Oct 26, 2007 10:23AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 10:12, Richard Osterlind wrote:
[quote]
I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.


Richard
[/quote]


I know this is nit-picky, but I think it would be better to substitute the work "participate" with the words "submit for audition." Nearly every working pro in the hemisphere was repeatedly called, sometimes begged and brow-beaten to submit. But the truth is, none of us, regardless of industry stature, experience, or performance skills, has any idea of whether we would have made the cut. Television producers have a huge range of variables in mind when selecting contestants for something like this, I am sure. They're looking for a certain mix of personalities, certain types of performance styles, certain looks, who knows.

I agree with Ricard's conditions. They would have made for a better show. I also think it would have been a better show had it been more a "Last Magician Standing," as one industry review called it, than a show specifically geared toward mentalism.

In spite of the debacle that the first episode turned out to be, I applaud all ten participants for the risks they have taken and the moxie they have shown.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 26, 2007 10:37AM)
You have no idea the nature of the phone calls so it is not only nit pickey it is flat out uninformend.

How do you know for a fact he wasn't asked to "participate"?

I know of several who were offered just that. To PARTICIPATE, not to submit.
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Oct 26, 2007 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 10:12, Richard Osterlind wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:54, arnon wrote:
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
[/quote]

I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.

The only way I would be involved in such a show would be as follows: (and call this a challenge if you want)

The stage setting would be exactly as it is for Phenomenon. The audience would be made up of random people who have had no contact with any of the contestants. (Celebrities would be welcomed) A panel of 3 judges from different areas of show business and who have no personal interest in any of the contestants would oversee the proceedings. Criss Angel, Uri Geller and I would each come out and perform for 20 to 30 minutes. The show would be live and the rules would state there be absolutely no pre-show work, no camera editing and no stooges or backstage assistants. Then, with the help of the judge’s comments, the home audience would vote on who they liked the most.

Is that fair?

Richard
[/quote]

It would not be fair.

Richard,you have the big advantage of having an almost universally likeable performance style.No contest.

Rich
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 26, 2007 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 10:12, Richard Osterlind wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:54, arnon wrote:
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
[/quote]

I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.

The only way I would be involved in such a show would be as follows: (and call this a challenge if you want)

The stage setting would be exactly as it is for Phenomenon. The audience would be made up of random people who have had no contact with any of the contestants. (Celebrities would be welcomed) A panel of 3 judges from different areas of show business and who have no personal interest in any of the contestants would oversee the proceedings. Criss Angel, Uri Geller and I would each come out and perform for 20 to 30 minutes. The show would be live and the rules would state there be absolutely no pre-show work, no camera editing and no stooges or backstage assistants. Then, with the help of the judge’s comments, the home audience would vote on who they liked the most.

Is that fair?

Richard
[/quote]


Criss Angel doing 30 minutes live on stage without the aid of stooges, setup audience or camera edits....LOL.

.... and the little men in spandex come dancing out to save the day!

Richard, Id just assume watch a full one hour special of your material.. and feel free to give Angel a front row seat as he might learn a thing or two.


But seriously..Richard... ive always wanted to ask a person of your status this question, and I understand if you are two busy to answer. But how do feel watching a Criss Angel show, knowing that 75% of what he does involves setup audiences and camera edits, and then see a person like Banachek in the background helping him succeed in these plays. As a semi-pro, it ticks me off. But from someone of your credibility, I wonder how you feel about someone like Banachek doing what he is doing in that show. I would assume you pros would rather see someone with a true talent that was earned by practice and hard work like yourself rather than some guy who all in one year becomes huge without having much true talent... and if he does have any, is affraid to use it properly.

I compare Angel to Britney Spears often... neither really worked for what they earned... Angel lipsyncs magic.

On a final note.. thanks for the tons of material and dvds you have provided us. And thanks for taking the time to speak with us on these boards. Your post was the highlight of my week!
Message: Posted by: Hill (Oct 26, 2007 10:44AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 10:12, Richard Osterlind wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 23:54, arnon wrote:
Richard Osterlind hasn't posted here for the last 30 days. His last post was on September 23, 2007.

I too would love to hear his "take" on this show.

Arnon
[/quote]

I, like many other pros in the field, was called repeatedly to participate in the show and I, like most of the rest, declined for a variety of reasons.

The only way I would be involved in such a show would be as follows: (and call this a challenge if you want)

The stage setting would be exactly as it is for Phenomenon. The audience would be made up of random people who have had no contact with any of the contestants. (Celebrities would be welcomed) A panel of 3 judges from different areas of show business and who have no personal interest in any of the contestants would oversee the proceedings. Criss Angel, Uri Geller and I would each come out and perform for 20 to 30 minutes. The show would be live and the rules would state there be absolutely no pre-show work, no camera editing and no stooges or backstage assistants. Then, with the help of the judge’s comments, the home audience would vote on who they liked the most.

Is that fair?

Richard
[/quote]

I have to say, I think these conditions are perfectly reasonable, and would make for a very entertaining programme.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 10:58AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-25 21:33, Slim King wrote:
Lot's of Armchair Quarterbacking by those who are not playing the game. The first quarter isn't even over yet. Hide and watch......
[/quote]

It's your opinion but, to me, it just seems like armchair quarterbacking by those who act like they don't have an opinion. It's ok to have an opinion, Slim, what you wrote above is exactly that. Now, for you to say that it is okay to have an opinion of, say, posts on a board but not mentalism on national TV seems a bit disingenuous. Actually, not a "bit" but totally and completely disingenuous to the point of hypocrisy.

But that is just my opinion. I guess I am just armchair quarterbacking about what you said... that is meant in fun, btw, just to be clear.

Mr. Osterlind,

It is fair and therein lies the problem. Shock television is what sells, and using Angel and Geller to rate the performers has both an American Idol and Masked Magician kind of feel to it. They don't want fair, which is really too bad.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2007 11:00AM)
It would be an entertaining program for magicians and mentalists, not for the general public. And the only one with anything to gain in that scenario (sorry to say) is Richard.

The concept that Phenomenon brings is good, but it lacks in execution. The performers are handicapped due to the restraints placed on them. It would be better if each was allowed to perform a set in front of a live audience, with the camera as a member of the audience. Have two or three performances each week with the at home and studio audiences voting. After the first 3 weeks, we would be down to the 3 finalists. This provides better entertainment for the audience, a better showcase for the performers, a better indication of their performance capabilities, and a more interesting and cohesive program.

Tony
Message: Posted by: magic4545 (Oct 26, 2007 12:24PM)
Okay, after seeing the show finally, I would like to say that the general descriptions of Criss Angel's behavior were a bit overstated. I think that he was trying to do a job, and, although I disagree with him, I think that he was trying to be constructive, and his ego slipped out a bit here and there, but it wasn't as 'ugly' as I expected it to be.

I feel that the show would have been better with a situation like the "So you think you can dance" format, where they showed the behind the scenes material. Letting the performers show who they were consulting with, who they were brainstorming with, showing the researching and second-guessing about material, showing conflicts that we have with whether we should be closed-eye or more about this being 'just tricks.' Let Criss go around and consult and help the acts with their pieces, to show the true power of grace, instead of the image that is coming across to many of you.

I feel that there is huge conflict and drama that was really overlooked in favor of a studio production that, quite frankly, fell pretty flat. At least flatter than it could have been. I feel that they should have shown more of the background from the auditions and rehearsals, to give a feeling of what goes on in the trenches of a TV reality show featuring magician/mentalists.

The teardrops and the pity stories were absolutely unappealing. WAAAAAAY too contrived and distracting from the important factors.

The catfighting and interaction between characters would have been much more effective with several mentalists rooming together between rehearsals, and arguing over who was going to get to do the roulettes, who gets the booktests, who gets the metal bending, touches, etc. Let the audience in on the major facets of our art, without giving away the secrets. Letting them know that there are several 'methods' or presentations for these different cornerstones, and that there are people all over the country who can come to their events and present this material live, in their own homes.

This would have been good for everyone, including the people on the show, not just the ratings. But, I feel that this would have helped the ratings.

But, hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who's never had a day job, and survived for decades without huge advertising and self-promotion. I'm just a professional entertainer, working off of word of mouth, in a very competitive business that usually favors the hypesters... I have no say in stuff like this.

Oh, and do I think that quicker, more direct pieces would have more of an effect on the MTV generation of viewers? Absolutely. Do I think that my material would have worked better than what they ended up having on the show so far? Absolutely, even the casting directors told me that. Emphatically. They just couldn't sell the executives on my inclusion, due to some unrelated issues. Some of you are aware of the issues, and all seem to agree that I got a raw deal. But, now I'm not feeling so bad about it.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 12:33PM)
I am sorry for Jimmy's RAW DEAL, but everything happens for a reason (If you believe in my version of the Supernatural) ...so maybe it was for the best. I also felt that my performances would have been untraceable (sp) and unique to the show... But NOOOOOOOOO :) (And YES,I would have liked to have been on the show)
No sour grapes here. I'm OK with what's happening, but I felt it could have been avoided.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Oct 26, 2007 01:06PM)
If I had been chosen, I don't think I would have received the "character definition" criticism that the first four contestants received...

:devilish:
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2007 01:18PM)
No, you wouldn't. LOL

Did anyone else catch the rebroadcast last night on the SCIFI channel?
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 01:19PM)
No, thanks for mentioning that Tony.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Oct 26, 2007 01:26PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 14:06, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
If I had been chosen, I don't think I would have received the "character definition" criticism that the first four contestants received...

:devilish:
[/quote]

Sure you would as you know as well as I that your character has no character.

BTW Philemon I just got my Cirque tickets! Front row too!
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 26, 2007 01:31PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 11:18, Dannydoyle wrote:
***
(To Richard Osterlind)
Your question was, "Is that fair?".

The answer is absolutly not.

You are a far better entertainer than either one of them or both combined for that matter.

IF you let them combine their scores you are now getting to "fair". LOL. From a bookie standpoint that is.
[/quote]

Nick the Greek [i]still[/i] gives it to Richard "5 to 1" even with Angel/Geller's combined scoring.

If you want "fair," go to Pomona. If you want "art," go to the Louvre. :lol: On television, it's all about sponsors, time slots, and ratings.
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Oct 26, 2007 01:38PM)
Surely television is about entertainment, if you frame it in the same context as ' fair' and ' art '.... what you just said makes no sense...
Message: Posted by: RileyG (Oct 26, 2007 01:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 14:38, Silvertongue wrote:
Surely television is about entertainment, if you frame it in the same context as ' fair' and ' art '.... what you just said makes no sense...
[/quote]

Regular Television is about selling you bad products with a little entertainment in between commercials.
Message: Posted by: Silvertongue (Oct 26, 2007 01:48PM)
But that's not why the viewing public watches t.v. like they go to the louvre for art and pomona for the fair they go to the t.v. for many reason but the main reason being entertainment.
Message: Posted by: ralphwaldoemerson (Oct 26, 2007 02:01PM)
Danny, I meant no disrespect to Richard. Obviously I don't't know what was said to him. I didn't get the sense that he was claiming to have any particular guarantee that he would have been a contestant. Only that he had been approached about the show and had strong opinions about the way it was formatted. Personally I think he is tremendously talented, and I like his ideas.

My statement was based on the fact that I and nearly every pro that I know were repeatedly called about this, and the consistent implication was that we were being offered a slot. In every case I know, the reality turned out to be that we were being asked to submit for consideration. My opinion is hardly uninformed.

If you claim to know for a fact that some people were offered guaranteed slots as contestants, I would have to say I doubt their stories. If they were offered participation in other capacities, I'd find that more likely.

Feel free to PM me with the names of the people to whom you refer.

I stand by my opinion that nobody who opted out of this thing could know for certain that they would have ended up a contestant, myself included. I also don't believe the rumors that this thing is rigged. I've heard so many rumors, some of them contradicting each other, only to have them debunked by people involved in the production, that I'm doubtful of anything I haven't heard directly from either contestants or production staff.

In any case, the point of my post was to give props to the contestants.
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (Oct 26, 2007 02:10PM)
"The catfighting and interaction between characters would have been much more effective with several mentalists rooming together between rehearsals, and arguing over who was going to get to do the roulettes, who gets the booktests, who gets the metal bending, touches, etc. Let the audience in on the major facets of our art, without giving away the secrets"
The viewing public wouldn't give a rat's rear about who was getting to do what routine & all this would have done was made the showing go from perhaps boring to "Big Brother" trash without the BB ratings.
Message: Posted by: Garrad (Oct 26, 2007 02:17PM)
Is there anywhere or way that us brits can get to watch these? Have they been posted online yet?
I'd love a chance to see these artist's at work
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 02:45PM)
I really don't think you do, Garrad, lol.
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 26, 2007 02:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 15:17, Garrad wrote:
Is there anywhere or way that us brits can get to watch these? Have they been posted online yet?
I'd love a chance to see these artist's at work
[/quote]

You're lucky we had to sit through 30 minutes to see these two short acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjfMy25BfA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GdpNbQ6T4E

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 02:48PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 11:41, videokideo wrote:


Criss Angel doing 30 minutes live on stage without the aid of stooges, setup audience or camera edits....LOL.

.... and the little men in spandex come dancing out to save the day!

Richard, Id just assume watch a full one hour special of your material.. and feel free to give Angel a front row seat as he might learn a thing or two.


But seriously..Richard... ive always wanted to ask a person of your status this question, and I understand if you are two busy to answer. But how do feel watching a Criss Angel show, knowing that 75% of what he does involves setup audiences and camera edits, and then see a person like Banachek in the background helping him succeed in these plays. As a semi-pro, it ticks me off. But from someone of your credibility, I wonder how you feel about someone like Banachek doing what he is doing in that show. I would assume you pros would rather see someone with a true talent that was earned by practice and hard work like yourself rather than some guy who all in one year becomes huge without having much true talent... and if he does have any, is affraid to use it properly.

I compare Angel to Britney Spears often... neither really worked for what they earned... Angel lipsyncs magic.

On a final note.. thanks for the tons of material and dvds you have provided us. And thanks for taking the time to speak with us on these boards. Your post was the highlight of my week!
[/quote]

To videokideo: You know, I just got to say, though I personally don't like Criss Angel, mostly for his attitude and arrogance, and I definitely don't like to be the one to have to defend him, I think your constant attacks are a bit unfair. It's one thing to have a personal opinion about him, but at least be fair about it and do a bit of research before going on and on about how he "lip-syncs" magic or he can't do what he does live onstage...

Before his Mindfreak TV show, it was his Mindfreak Broadway show (live on stage with about 300 performances if I remember correctly) and before that, 600 performances live at the "World" theater in New York. And even before that, back in the 1990s he was performing at Madison Square Garden as part of the "World of Illusion" and doing magic as part of his industrial band Angeldust when I first saw him, which, being both a musician and magician myself, I just thought was kind of silly to have this serious industrial band and then to all of a sudden do Pendragon style magic in the middle of a song (though he tried to gore it up a bit to fit the style of the music.) So, yes, Criss Angel is actually a seasoned veteran in magic years before you saw him on his TV show.

Like Copperfield, Criss has been performing magic professionally since his teens but now, like Steven Segal, though he does have the skills to back it up, his arrogance has made people believe he's a fraud. But he really isn't. Why else would ALL of these respected veteran magicians be on his payroll... it can't JUST be about the money.

So if you don't like him, that's fine, I don't either, but get off your high horse with this "Angel can't do real magic" crap... I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you. We should all be thanking people like David Blaine and Criss Angel; they've brought magic back into the spotlight and made it cool to be a magician again and it's given us all the opportunity to work more... and if for some reason you aren't getting more work or praise from what you do, don't blame Criss Angel, blame yourself for not stepping up your game!

Sorry for the rant here, it's just that I'm excited by what has been happening with Magic the last few years and the potential to finally get it out of the realm of cheesy tuxedoed penguins doing their dove work. Not since when I first saw Doug Henning have I thought "yeah, magic is cool again and I'm proud to be part of it." Maybe if we spent less time criticizing the ones that have become successful legitimately and more time improving our own performances, we will be able to contribute and elevate the art even further.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 26, 2007 02:56PM)
I still want to see Criss Angel's stage show. I've heard all these years that's his forte, television aside.
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 26, 2007 02:58PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 15:48, genshi wrote:

I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone has ever criticized the live stuff Criss did before MindFreak but please don't call the CGI show something to be jealous of artistically. All Criss did with MindFreak was out-Blaine Blaine. Someone with a larger budget could easily out Angel Angel just like other Hollywood productions that top the one before them. I think the Britney Spears shoe fits.

BTW....Now THIS is something to envy and applaud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD20ldvwdYc

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 03:14PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 15:58, Timothy Drake wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 15:48, genshi wrote:

I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone has ever criticized the live stuff Criss did before MindFreak but please don't call the CGI show something to be jealous of artistically. All Criss did with MindFreak was out-Blaine Blaine. Someone with a larger budget could easily out Angel Angel just like other Hollywood productions that top the one before them. I think the Britney Spears shoe fits.

BTW....Now THIS is something to envy and applaud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD20ldvwdYc

Best,

Tim
[/quote]

Actually, yes, a couple of people (specifically videokideo) are implying that Criss Angel can't do this stuff live.

Though he does use quite a bit of camera tricks, it's not as much as people think. Certainly no more than Copperfield's TV specials. There was one trick he did that I could have sworn had to be a camera edit, but I studied it over and over again and saw nothing (I used to work in film Post Production so I can spot these things) so I concluded the only other way to do it was by another age old method, but it would have been much easier to do it with a camera edit... sure enough, he did do it the traditional way as he admitted to it on Penn Jillette's radio show.

So I think there is a lot of stuff that we may assume is all camera tricks but is not, though I agree there is till quite a bit that are and I do agree that he is just trying to out Blaine Blaine, but the Brittany comparison is WAY off. She is a complete fraud and music industry puppet where as Criss, at least, has been in control of everything he has done and has put the work and his own skills into it.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Lozoff (Oct 26, 2007 03:22PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 00:13, Candini wrote:
...but I really did not think he was over critical of anyone like CA was. Perhaps CA will tame down somewhat for next week.
[/quote]

Oh, I hope he doesn't "tame down." I thought Criss' critiques were the best thing about the show. I thought he was fair, honest and showed a love for his art. It's actually the most I've ever respected him. It wasn't too cool to mention the name "PK Touches," but other than that, I sure hope he won't allow Uri's over-praise to shame him into softening his judgement.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2007 03:24PM)
I stand by my comments at NBC.COM
[quote] Criss Angel critiquing mentalism would be like Ron Jeremy critiquing Shakespearian Theater. It might be entertaining to watch, but it is meaningless drivel and an insult to all involved.

Of course this is just my opnion. I do feel the Criss is excellent in his stage performance as a magician, but there are many differences between what he does and what those people whom he is critiquing on the show do. [/quote]

Tony
Message: Posted by: The Drake (Oct 26, 2007 03:26PM)
Not to derail the thread....

The CGI stuff drives me NUTS! but I was all behind Criss in his appraisal of the performances. He is qualified. Not that I agree with all he said but I respect his right to have an opinion and to act as a judge of sorts. He was doing his job why Uri was Uri..too bad. LOL Criss did LOSE me big time with the " I did it bigger and better" stuff.

Best,

Tim
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2007 03:31PM)
Tim

I disagree with you 100% on him and his qualification to judge a mentalism performance. As a magician, he is looking for, what he himself uses to structure a routine and performance. It is not the same.

Ron Jeremy is an actor, and at the top of his field, but I would not want him critiquing Anthony Hopkins.

Tony
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 03:32PM)
If Criss was a paticipant on the show he would win it for sure.. Especially since he would bring his mom and brothter as part of the celebs.
Message: Posted by: Garrad (Oct 26, 2007 03:33PM)
Thank you for the links Tim, you are a gentleman.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Oct 26, 2007 03:34PM)
He would not participate in a show like this, no need to. He already did it two weeks ago on his show.
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 03:44PM)
This from Mr. Iacoviello is very well put and sums it up the best.

[quote]
On 2007-10-26 16:24, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
I stand by my comments at NBC.COM
[quote] Criss Angel critiquing mentalism would be like Ron Jeremy critiquing Shakespearian Theater. It might be entertaining to watch, but it is meaningless drivel and an insult to all involved.

Of course this is just my opnion. I do feel the Criss is excellent in his stage performance as a magician, but there are many differences between what he does and what those people whom he is critiquing on the show do. [/quote]

Tony
[/quote]

One thing in regards to this Phenomenon show, I too was bit disappointed by the performances themselves. The whole point of the show was to find the absolute best of the best, cream of the crop and right off the bat the first performer does a tired old PK Touch routine that I performed better a year ago, impromptu at my day job (and yes, that was risky, but I knew I could pull it off.) The excuses that they only have 3 minutes and no time to build rapport is simply not a good enough excuse in my opinion. People like Derren Brown or Luke Jermay would have been able to jump up there and knock it out of the park so the rest of these guys really need to step it up.

Earlier on in the thread (or another thread?) I heard some of you saying "Yeah, so in so is doing his same old bear trap routine", or "what's his name is doing his usual book test" and this is my point exactly. It's all "been there, done that". Though I have never seen him, I look forward to seeing what Jim Callahan does because, from what it sounds like, even if he fails, he's trying something that he hasn't done before and the build up on these forums to it has me on the edge of my seat already!
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 03:45PM)
Criss said on the show that Ross from Karol's routine was incredibly funny.. just goes to show he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 03:48PM)
Genshi, maybe those tricks are old to you, but totaly new to many of the viewers and audience members. Mentalism is not that common on America TV.
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 04:01PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 16:48, DJM wrote:
Genshi, maybe those tricks are old to you, but totaly new to many of the viewers and audience members. Mentalism is not that common on America TV.
[/quote]

True, maybe, but did it blow any of YOU away? And from what I'm hearing all over the place, did it blow any layman away? It may have back in the 1970s but we are living in a totally different time.

People expect (unfortunately) much more, quicker, bigger and badder. It's no longer the MTV generation or even the Jack*ss generation, it's the instant gratification Youtube generation and reality is what it's about. David Blaine to Derren Brown also do may traditional tricks, but they dress it up in away that fits with "today" and these guys on Phenomenon just didn't seem to have pulled that of yet.

It's like how TV shows in the 1950's were so sugar coated, like Leave it to Beaver, I Love Lucy, but then compare that to controversial TV shows of the 1970's where they dealt with racism (All In the Family) and homosexuality (Soap) but now those shows are considered extremely tame by today's standards... yet many (not all) magicians and mentalists are still playing to a 1970's audience I feel.

Just my opinion and I may be off.
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 26, 2007 04:02PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 16:22, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
[quote]

Oh, I hope he doesn't "tame down." I thought Criss' critiques were the best thing about the show. I thought he was fair, honest and showed a love for his art. It's actually the most I've ever respected him. It wasn't too cool to mention the name "PK Touches," but other than that, I sure hope he won't allow Uri's over-praise to shame him into softening his judgement.
[/quote]

Love for his art? Borderline exposure? The performers weren't trying to bilk money from a sick old lady, these were mentalists who Criss attempted to reduce to scraps in his presence turning something that could've been magical into mere silly tricks he could do bigger and better. He's quickly becoming a friend of the mentalist-hating, secret hunting punks out there.

You've got to be kidding.

I'm 100% against anyone trying to debunk an entertainer. There's a line there that performers, entertainers usually don't cross, and if I want to go onstage or on TV in character and say I'm an alien from a distant planet who the hell are you to debunk me?

If I'm not claiming to heal sick people because I'm an alien from a distant planet and instead all I do is entertain, in person on tv or on stage with my abilities I should be able to do so without having someone wanting to debunk what does not need to be debunked ... my performance.
Message: Posted by: davybabybrazil (Oct 26, 2007 04:06PM)
Well said Alexandre. Bem feito!
Message: Posted by: Alex Linian (Oct 26, 2007 04:51PM)
Just watched it. What a good show to learn from; it highlights everything that is wrong with magic as an art today.

Angel's show does that as well. Such great TV for magicians.

I hope next weeks performances are better. Until then I want the girl to win cause she's hot.
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Oct 26, 2007 04:58PM)
It has certainly given people something to talk about on here. I wonder if that can be considered a success? At least it has slowed the barrage of Dynamike-filled threads.

I remember the good old days when all the threads were about Derren Brown, loads of people had a go at J ack and J im, and everyone argued about whether magicians were the same as mentalists. Sigh...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 05:09PM)
I think that the projections were that 5 million would be watching...It seems they actually got a few million more than that...Hmmmmmmm?
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Oct 26, 2007 05:31PM)
I have a personal update:

I watched Phenomenon again just now, forwarding some parts (DVR).

I think the hype got to me. I don't know what I was expecting, but I suppose I was expecting miracles to occur on my TV even though I liked the performances in general the first time.

I liked the Ehud and Gerry performance even more this second time. I understood better what they were going for and felt the constraint of time on both performances. It seems they did the best they could under the circumstances

Criss Angel didn't seem so harsh this second time around, still ME ME ME, but not as horribly harsh. Perhaps I have let my online reading influence me some.

Since the show aired, I have spoken to a number of other friends in my sphere of influence who saw the show. Most told me they liked it (naturally some performers more than others) and actually voted.

The people I had over my house didn't vote and felt bored. Maybe I didn't order the right food or serve the right drinks during the show.

I promise to make that up on Halloween.
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 26, 2007 06:15PM)
...
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 26, 2007 06:26PM)
Don't forget:

America's Psychic Challenge tonight on Lifetime, 10/9 C, where psychics vs psychics in competition. The challenge is just beginning. I am hoping an effect I use called From Hell will be used. Perhaps a new version of PK Touches also with no preshow.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 06:51PM)
I believe that the reason Criss mentioned the PK Touches and its creator was that the viewers would know it's all just a magic trick rather than a paranormal event. But of coruse did it in his own selfish way.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 26, 2007 07:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 19:51, DJM wrote:
I believe that the reason Criss mentioned the PK Touches and its creator was that the viewers would know it's all just a magic trick rather than a paranormal event. But of coruse did it in his own selfish way.
[/quote]

If [i]that[/i] was CA's motivation, then in my opinion:

1) The show should have a "lite" disclaimer, written on the screen only (no audio), to the effect that "None of the performances are claimed to be more than entertainment, nor are they intended to foster beliefs in the supernatural;" and

2) CA should then feel free to refrain from commenting on any methods, and stick solely to the overall performance aspects.

What do you think of my suggestion/solution to this [i]one[/i] problem aspect of the show?

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 07:14PM)
It's a good approach but the best is probably exactly what they have, nothing. (BEST relative to disclaimer, not CA's actions)

I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show (who I am a fan of, so don't anybody read anything sinister there).

I think CA had no need to refer to SPECIFICS like he did, no matter what. He could have merely said "that is a common effect in mentalism, I pay money to hang out with one of the guys who revolutionized it, you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)".

Good try, Arnon, but it also seems you used it to try to push your personal beliefs. Still, good idea but I don't think it would work.
Message: Posted by: Mick Ayres (Oct 26, 2007 07:21PM)
"Theatre is life. Film is art. Television is furniture."

Best,
Mick
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 07:23PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 20:14, Lemniscate wrote:
It's a good approach but the best is probably exactly what they have, nothing. (BEST relative to disclaimer, not CA's actions)

I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show (who I am a fan of, so don't anybody read anything sinister there).

I think CA had no need to refer to SPECIFICS like he did, no matter what. He could have merely said "that is a common effect in mentalism, I pay money to hang out with one of the guys who revolutionized it, you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)".

[/quote]

Come on, it wasn't that snide. He talked about how the performer didn't seem committed to his performance, then he simply said "Your PK Touch routine, as a magician, was average, I'm also good friends and work with Banachek who is one of the creators of that concept..." and went on to say that the performer just needs to raise the bar a bit. That's it.

I know we all dislike Angel's posturing, but let's not also put words in his mouth (or assumed words as many of you have done over and over and over.) You guys really are projecting WAY too much onto Criss Angel...
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 26, 2007 07:28PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 20:14, Lemniscate wrote:
I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show
[/quote]

Huh? Can you elaborate exactly what you mean here Lemniscate?

Arnon, I am suprised and a little shocked there is no disclaimer. I didn't really scan the credits as well as I should've and forgot to TIVO the episode. Legally, I'm actually very suprised. Doesn't make sense. Someone really dropped the ball if that is the case. I smell a lawsuit!

My feeling on disclaimers is that they generally due to opposite of what they are supposed to do. Instead of making it seem fake, they just make it seem more real.

For instance the MTV show Jackass, which had a big huge don't try this at home disclaimer at the top of the show, that just made kids at home want to try it that much more. I think its true with the John Edward and Sylvia Brownes of the world as well whos television programs do carry a disclaimer. As much as we want to inform people that its entertainment, people will believe what they want to believe.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 07:42PM)
Actually, brainchild, I tivo-ed it but I don't know if there was a disclaimer or not, to be honest. I don't remember seeing one but that pretty much doesn't mean anything, lol.

What I was getting at, poorly, is that I am not sure such a disclaimer would actually be true. Do all of the performers "claim to be nothing more than entertainment, etc"? Not sure they do or that they would approve of such a disclaimer.

Arnon might be better to ask about the legal stuff but I don't see disclaimers on religious shows where they do, in fact, "foster beliefs in the supernatural". Not sure that is a lawsuit worthy offense. If it is, maybe we should all (if you are not already) convert to some religion, then become atheists and sue. Again, I just don't see it though.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 07:45PM)
On 2007-10-26 20:23, genshi wrote:
[quote]
Come on, it wasn't that snide.
[/quote]

It wasn't "that" snide? So it was snide? Or it wasn't? It's one way or the other, here, and it seems you disagreed with one word (which put NOTHING in his mouth, feel free to quote me if I put words in his mouth... oh wait, I didn't). No wait, you agreed with it... what did you mean anyway? was it or wasn't it snide? was it snide but not that snide? Seems pretty arbitrary to say it isn't THAT snide. But I don't know. I guess, in the end, your comment doesn't seem THAT ridiculous. Or does it...

I was going to post the definition here and show how even what you wrote qualified as snide but what is the point, really?
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 26, 2007 07:51PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 20:42, Lemniscate wrote:
Not sure that is a lawsuit worthy offense. If it is, maybe we should all (if you are not already) convert to some religion, then become atheists and sue. Again, I just don't see it though.
[/quote]

Ahh...if being an atheist in this country meant we had as much power and rights as being a christian, we could sue. But that is for another thread..
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 07:57PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 20:45, Lemniscate wrote:
On 2007-10-26 20:23, genshi wrote:
[quote]
Come on, it wasn't that snide.
[/quote]

It wasn't "that" snide? So it was snide? Or it wasn't? It's one way or the other, here, and it seems you disagreed with one word (which put NOTHING in his mouth, feel free to quote me if I put words in his mouth... oh wait, I didn't). No wait, you agreed with it... what did you mean anyway? was it or wasn't it snide? was it snide but not that snide? Seems pretty arbitrary to say it isn't THAT snide. But I don't know. I guess, in the end, your comment doesn't seem THAT ridiculous. Or does it...

I was going to post the definition here and show how even what you wrote qualified as snide but what is the point, really?
[/quote]

Man, get a grip, why are you so worked up!? No, to me it wasn't snide AT ALL. Not that particular comment he made to that performer. Why don't you watch the program again objectively and without bias and then tell me exactly how what I quoted was snide. Seemed more like constructive criticism to me. I'll admit, he seemed snide with the nailgun guy when he mentioned how he himself did that routine, but with a real gun. Yes, that was definitely a dig at the performer that was uncalled for.

And yes, your comment "you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)" implied that's what he said or would have said. But he didn't,he simply said he that the perform needs to own his performance and really commit to it. Seemed pretty constructive (in that particular case) to me.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 07:57PM)
In the end, Criss is certainly a Phenomenon.
Message: Posted by: Chris K (Oct 26, 2007 07:57PM)
[quote] On another note, if the atheists in this country weren't oppressed, they could probably sue and win. But that is for another thread.. [/quote]

I was so totally going to write that, but I was going to add something about the "accepted" religions in the country getting special treatment.

I know the psychic shows do but I honestly believe there is no difference between phenomenon, John Edward, and evangelist shows. It's my worldview and I admit it, so, to me, it just seems arbitrary. Again, a post for another thread, you sucked me in, LOL!

Hmm, should say something about Phenomenon... uh, still really looking forward to Jim. JIM'S DA MAN!
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 26, 2007 08:12PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 20:57, Lemniscate wrote:
I know the psychic shows do but I honestly believe there is no difference between phenomenon, John Edward, and evangelist shows.
[/quote]

I completely agree. 100%.

The only thing that separates any of them, in my opinion, is really just semantics.
Message: Posted by: Arnon (Oct 26, 2007 08:16PM)
Members,

What I am finding myself proposing is that:

We collectively agree on [i]solutions[/i] to the problems on the show, and then put together a united statement of our proposals to NBC.

Perhaps first clearing it through the performers themselves might be wise.

What do y'all think?

Arnon
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 08:20PM)
I think, Arnon, that this shoe is a lead balloon - a Hindenburg... maybe some people like Jim and Angela will get to ride the explosion into the stratosphere...

Personally, I would be happy to create a new show and market it to a different broadcaster.

The show's structure is fatally flawed in so many ways, it deserves euthenasia...

The key is to create MYSTERY and ENGAGEMENT - like Blaine and even Angel's early work DID... not a freak show format with tomato tosses.

Derren Brown's DUMMY episode from TRICK OR TREAT is an interesting example of what COULD be done to be different and amazing
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 26, 2007 09:51PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 21:16, arnon wrote:
Members,

What I am finding myself proposing is that:

We collectively agree on [i]solutions[/i] to the problems on the show, and then put together a united statement of our proposals to NBC.

Perhaps first clearing it through the performers themselves might be wise.

What do y'all think?

Arnon
[/quote]
Unless its going to dramatically increase their ratings, or put money into their pocket, I think they could care less what we think no matter how you or I feel about the situation.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 26, 2007 10:07PM)
After 31 pages, the totals are in:

They all suck: 23%

I could do it better: 36%

Criss Angel rules: 6%

Restrictions suck: 68%

J ack will win it all: 71%

Criss Angel knows Banacheck: 81%
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 10:21PM)
Now THAT'S FUNNY! :)
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 26, 2007 10:28PM)
My local NBC affiliate decided to air something in place of Phenomenon this past Wednesday. Fortunately for me, they are required to air it sometime or another and that time is tonight. I’ve been reading this thread and I’ve just seen the show and I have to say, Wow! I can’t believe how much I disagree with the majority of posters.

I’m just going to go through the list and tell my thoughts. But first I want to say that I don’t believe Criss Angel was anywhere near as bad as what he was made out in this thread. I don’t agree with all his criticism but I don’t think he was all that bad either.

Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers. He made the claim; Criss said he would bust anyone who made the claim; so Ehud knew what he was walking into in that regard. But I thought he did a good job.

Jim Karol
I thought this was the weakest performance. I like him and I like his everyman approach. I thought he was too repetitive with some of his patter (I got tired of hearing how he had no idea how he was able to do the things he does) and it was clear he was making Ross very uncomfortable. I don’t personally agree with embarrassing an audience member or deliberately making them feel uncomfortable. I also think Jim could benefit from some acting lessons. I also felt the prediction was incongruous with the trap stunt. That said, I like his character, I think he’s very talented, and I applaud his courage. I’ve seen him perform other material that much more enthralled me and hope, if he returns, he will do some of that material because I’d like for people to see that side of him.

Eran Raven
This guy definitely has the look. He reminds me of Theodore Annemann. I think he could use a few acting lessons himself but I love how relaxed he is and how he handles spectators. I bet Carmen was getting dizzy when he blindfolded her and had his hands on her shoulders. I know I would be -- haha. His demo was intense and I felt it. I thought it was really good overall.

Also, as an aside, I don’t agree with the comments about how arrogant Criss was. I think people misunderstood his intention. When he said he performed the ultimate Russian Roulette, I believe he was referring to the fact that the use of a gun is the most dangerous way to perform this effect. It came off to me more as “talking shop” than trying to upstage anyone so I disagree with the criticism there.

Gerry McCambridge
I thought Gerry’s was the best of all and I totally disagree with both Uri and Criss’s criticism of Gerry’s performance. I honestly think both of them missed the boat on this one. Gerry was the most relaxed of all the performers, the most direct and assertive, the most articulate, and he performed the most detailed and intricate routine with more precision and expertise than any of the others. A large chunk of the audience collectively gasped at the revelations and I think that got overlooked in the fervor to fry this guy over his comment about being THE mentalist.

As far as the applause comment, I think that was just light hearted relief and as far as the “I’m THE mentalist” comment, well he shouldn’t have said it. But it takes supreme confidence to perform this type of material and anyone can slip into that mode. Judging him by his performance, he was simply overall the best mentalist of the evening. I was very disappointed in the judges when they shredded him and they lost their credibility with it. What more can you ask for than a collective gasp from the audience at a revelation? Pound for pound, he was the best performance of the evening and he deserved better critiques than he received.

Those are my thoughts and I’m surprised how much I disagree with many of the posts on this thread. I found it refreshing to see a mentalist on national television doing mentalism this way instead of the Criss Angel/David Blaine “accost people on the street” format.

I enjoyed it. I didn’t find it boring at all and I look forward to the rest of the series.


Holly
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 10:41PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:28, HollyMental wrote:
Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers. He made the claim; Criss said he would bust anyone who made the claim; so Ehud knew what he was walking into in that regard. But I thought he did a good job.
[/quote]

He never claimed that he has supernatural powers, not sure which show you were watching.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 10:42PM)
DJM is correct!
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 26, 2007 10:46PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:41, DJM wrote:

He never claimed that he has supernatural powers, not sure which show you were watching.
[/quote]

He did on the show I watched.


Holly
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 10:46PM)
Slim you are agreeing with me? Now that's supernatural. ;)
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 10:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:41, DJM wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:28, HollyMental wrote:
Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers.[/quote]

He never claimed that he has supernatural powers, not sure which show you were watching.
[/quote]

hollymental was watching something else and that explain why he disagree with most [if not all] of the above posts.and why he found the show great and mr.mccambridge to be the best
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 10:47PM)
[quote]
He did on the show I watched.

Holly
[/quote]

So maybe you watched a different show than what they had on NBC.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 10:49PM)
Ehud in his performance did not claim any supernatural powers

Busting someone with exposure sucks

Agree with you re: Karol's treatment of an audience member - that tanked it for me...

Criss is the Second Coming of Mother Teresia? Nah

If you also add up the number of mindfreak show is the greatest, the # of hours spent, the I've done that before, raise the bar comments, and the terms "I performed the ultimate..." "I did more hours of TV than anyone before.." etc. you can see a pattern.

Was he the antichrist? Nah

But I wouldn't invite him out for dinner - that is just my opinion!

As for GM - I also agree he shouldn't have said he is THE mentalist - great way to alienate people. However, I was really disppointed with him as his was the one act that had no context or point... the other three DID... premise, story, etc. He did a classic mentalism effect and it was interesting to do the visual of the people holding the #'s for the sake of TV / platform... but...c'mon...yawn... especially after going after the penultimate (;)) roulette routine... I suppose since he has so much experience etc. I was surprised he chose that routine out of the ton of mentalist effects out there...

But, I am but a spectre.

I will say that the TV ratings and withdrawal of sponsorships etc. means it just ain't the greenies on the Café... the muggles found something terrible about the show..
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 26, 2007 10:53PM)
I think that Banachek had thementalist.com before GM....Making HIM ....THE MENTALIST...in the first place :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 10:54PM)
Holly could be thinking that the death of Ehud's brother and its impact on him emotionally = claiming everything he does is due to his brother's presence via spirits - however, Ehud never actually said that at all -in fact he more played the "I don't know why or how this works" and left it at that and went with the universal connection shtick.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 10:56PM)
I am THE walrus.... I am THE eggman...
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 11:00PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:53, Slim King wrote:
I think that Banachek had thementalist.com before GM....Making HIM ....THE MENTALIST...in the first place :)
[/quote]

GELLER is the ONLY ONE who could rightfully use THE Mentalist
Message: Posted by: brainchild (Oct 26, 2007 11:03PM)
After reading every post in this thread and carefully considering everyones comments, I am still pulling for Paris Hilton to win it all.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 11:03PM)
http://www.myspace.com/thementalists

Yes...THE MentalistS... they outnumber GM
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Oct 26, 2007 11:04PM)
I hope kelly clarkson wins.

*faint seductive whisper* Phenomenon *
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:06PM)
Dr. Spektor, Ehud didn't mention any spirits.. I believe what he meant is that everything he does is dedicated to his brother, and that he always thinks about him. Something that he says a lot in interviews and such.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Oct 26, 2007 11:11PM)
Exactly, DJM - exactly - I agree with you - what I am saying is I wonder if Holly misinterpreted that...he never said spirits - my statement was more about maybe that is what she might have thought... as it was worded in a way to leave that to the imagination i.e. his premise was a good one and a human emotion evoking one which does not claim supernatural powers... but those who think dead relatives in tragic ways connected to having a dream PROVES ghosts can make of that what they will...

I thought Ehud got robbed, big time.
Message: Posted by: videokideo (Oct 26, 2007 11:13PM)
[quote]


And your attacks on me are pretty unfair when I was simply trying to point out that some of you on here who are obviously bias against Criss Angel seem to make overblown assumptions and ridiculous claims; everything from what you think he would say to how he can't perform without camera tricks, it's all just really immature and smacks of jealously.


[/quote]

Personally,,, I think youve watched to many CA tv shows... and even worse, have been fooled most of the time. Otherwise, you couldn't possibly say our claims are rediculous overblown assumptions. You list the routines he has performed without the aid of video, stooges or setup audiences and Ill tell you where you are wrong based on fact and not assumption.

Keep the debate going and get educated!
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 11:14PM)
Not sure about people answer to osterlind .. I know he would easily play up to 30 minutes with one hand tied to his back and with his eyes closed [but with his magical blindfold on his face] not sure however that geller cannot do the same. geller is one great showman. do remember please that he hold many trainings and lectures for important associations and factories of the world mixing motiviational mumbo jumbo with his own unique style with a blend of demoing his powers criss angel sure would bite the dust and would start weeping like a baby
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:14PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:11, Dr Spektor wrote:
Exactly, DJM - exactly - I agree with you - what I am saying is I wonder if Holly misinterpreted that...he never said spirits - my statement was more about maybe that is what she might have thought... as it was worded in a way to leave that to the imagination i.e. his premise was a good one and a human emotion evoking one which does not claim supernatural powers... but those who think dead relatives in tragic ways connected to having a dream PROVES ghosts can make of that what they will...

I thought Ehud got robbed, big time.
[/quote]


Sorry, I misread your post.

I'll just add that Ehud always admits he doesn't have any powers, even says so on his website. So he should be the last person that Criss needs to "expose."
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 11:17PM)
[quote]
what I am saying is I wonder if Holly misinterpreted that...he never said spirits - my statement was more about maybe that is what she might have thought...
[/quote]

when one only own a hammer anything he look at will seem a nail to him
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 11:18PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:41, DJM wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:28, HollyMental wrote:
Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers. He made the claim; Criss said he would bust anyone who made the claim; so Ehud knew what he was walking into in that regard. But I thought he did a good job.
[/quote]

He never claimed that he has supernatural powers, not sure which show you were watching.
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:47, Mariagi wrote:

hollymental was watching something else and that explain why he disagree with most [if not all] of the above posts.and why he found the show great and mr.mccambridge to be the best
[/quote]

See, this was the point I was trying to make about people's bias here. He DID at least imply that he had supernatural powers in his video bio before his performance by saying (exact quote):

[quote]
On 2007-10-24 20:08, Ehud Segev
"Ever since I was a very young boy I was always so intrigued by the supernatural; The strongest power we have, maybe that's the sixth sense, the hidden sixth sense. When I was 17 years old I woke up in the middle of the night crying. I had a dream that my brother was killed and 10 years later, we get this knock on the door and there were two guys standing in that door and they said 'you brother was killed'.

Everything that happens in my life, since the moment he went away, is controlled by him. Everywhere I go, I have my brother with me now."
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:20PM)
I think the biased opinions belong to you, because you chose to skip what he says in the end of that video:

"The hidden sixth sense is our imagination."
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 26, 2007 11:24PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:56, Dr Spektor wrote:
I am THE walrus.... I am THE eggman...
[/quote]
...and comical rapping mentalist doctor.
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 11:31PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:20, DJM wrote:
I think the biased opinions belong to you, because you chose to skip what he says in the end of that video:

"The hidden sixth sense is our imagination."
[/quote]

Nope, didn't skip due to bias, I skipped it because it didn't imply the supernatural. I'm not saying he claimed he was supernatural, I was defending hollymental by saying he did at least IMPLY it with what I quoted which could leave one to believe that he sees himself with some sort of supernatural powers... but some of you immediately dismissed her with "not sure which show you were watching" and "hollymental was watching something else...."

just trying to keep people honest with the facts man.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:37PM)
[quote]
just trying to keep people honest with the facts man.
[/quote]

The FACTS are that you promised to give "exact" quotes, and you chose to ignore that line which basically explains what he was talking about when he meant Sixth Sense in the beginning of the video. What you did is twist the facts to make you seem correct.. but it just made you seem the complete opossite.

There's no indicition of supernatural powers in that clip, since he was talking about the IMAGINATION. Which is a very natural thing.

You got more "exact" quotes to share with us?
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 11:37PM)
[quote]
Nope, didn't skip due to bias, I skipped it because it didn't imply the supernatural. I'm not saying he claimed he was supernatural, I was defending hollymental by saying he did at least IMPLY it with what I quoted which could leave one to believe that he sees himself with some sort of supernatural powers... but some of you immediately dismissed her with "not sure which show you were watching" and "hollymental was watching something else...."

just trying to keep people honest with the facts man.
[/quote]


Aahh but he didn't imply THAT if one read things till the end without jumping here and there in a nonsensical way then come here to do a resumee of what they have [mis]read

just trying to keep people honest with the facts man
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 26, 2007 11:39PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-26 23:47, DJM wrote:

So maybe you watched a different show than what they had on NBC.
[/quote]

No DJM, I watched a repeat of the same show you did.

Ehud does claim to possess supernatural powers. Although he occasionally tries to mince words ala Jim Callahan, he definitely has made the claim.

Here are some inserts from Ehud Segev’s bio at his website at: http://www.ehudsegev.com/bio.htm

[quote] I don't have any supernatural powers, on the contrary - my powers are so natural that they are super natural. [/quote]

Here we see the typical semantics associated with psychic claims. But wait! There’s more!

[quote] I used to shock everybody. I knew the topics for the tests before the teacher would say one word. [/quote]

This one sounds as innocent as the “I knew something bad had happened to my brother and then there was a knock at the door…” kind of thing he said on Phenomenon. But wait…

[quote] Fascination with Segev continued and he was often asked to communicate with parallel universes. Hundred of séances were conducted and thousands of people's lives were touched by the amazing power Segev possesses.[/quote]

Here we see it getting more outlandish. Now he claims to communicate with parallel universes and touch lives with his powers.

[quote] With only a photo to reference Segev used his inner Kabbalistic energy to compose a profile on each candidate and foresee the winners. Segev was 100% right. He explained to the fascinated reporters that he used his mental abilities to analyze the candidates. [/quote]

Now the semantic way to look at this is that he meant he used his mental powers in the sense that we all use our brains to function. But we both know Mr. Segev is referring here specifically to paranormal powers.

Please read the bio I give a link to and tell me Mr. Segev makes no paranormal claims of any kind.


Holly
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 26, 2007 11:42PM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:37, DJM wrote:
[quote]
just trying to keep people honest with the facts man.
[/quote]

The FACTS are that you promised to give "exact" quotes, and you chose to ignore that line which basically explains what he was talking about when he meant Sixth Sense in the beginning of the video. What you did is twist the facts to make you seem correct.. but it just made you seem the complete opossite.

There's no indicition of supernatural powers in that clip, since he was talking about the IMAGINATION. Which is a very natural thing.

You got more "exact" quotes to share with us?
[/quote]

Ok, fair enough, my bad. Maybe I should have included the last line, but again, I didn't "twist the facts" I simply quoted exactly every other part of that video (except the last line) to show how HollyMental and others (and definitely lay-people who I watched the show with) could have seen how he claimed to be supernatural... and you guys are jumping down my throat over that!? Come on... grow up.
Message: Posted by: Mariagi (Oct 26, 2007 11:45PM)
[quote]
Come on... grow up.
[/quote]

you start first Sir. we will follow. thank you.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:52PM)
Holly, you first posted about what you saw on the show. Segev's site is there to promote himself, and it does a good job. He always admits he doens't have real powers when he's asked and that's he's just a magician. On Phenomenon he implied that whatever he does is natural, when he said the hidden Sixth Sense is the imagination. It's not his fault if you misunderstood that.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 26, 2007 11:55PM)
I agree with you DJM.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 26, 2007 11:58PM)
Thanks buddy, I can always count on you.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 12:08AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:52, DJM wrote:

Holly, you first posted about what you saw on the show. Segev's site is there to promote himself, and it does a good job. He always admits he doens't have real powers when he's asked and that's he's just a magician. On Phenomenon he implied that whatever he does is natural, when he said the hidden Sixth Sense is the imagination. It's not his fault if you misunderstood that.
[/quote]

DJM, obviously he doesn’t ALWAYS admit he doesn’t have real powers. He expressly claims to on his website. As well, he appeared with Sylvia Browne on the Montel Williams Show and when Sylvia pronounced that his powers were real, Ehud said nothing. I understand he was in a precarious position. The point I’m making is that he most certainly does not ALWAYS admit he doesn’t have powers.

It wasn’t my intention to start an argument. I don’t like the tone you started off with regarding the comments about “did you see the right show?” This especially surprised me because I liked you and didn’t think you were like that. Now you’re belittling my comprehension ability - all the more insulting given that you are wrong.

I was just trying to express my impressions of the show. If you don’t agree with them fine, but if you have a problem with me saying that Ehud Segev claims to have supernatural powers, I suggest you take it up with Ehud because he most definitely does claim to have supernatural powers. He may back track and wish-wash over semantics but he clearly makes the claim.

[quote] Fascination with Segev continued and he was often asked to communicate with parallel universes. Hundred of séances were conducted and thousands of people's lives were touched by the amazing power Segev possesses.[/quote]


Holly
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 12:14AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:55, Dynamike wrote:
I agree with you DJM.
[/quote]

Now I KNOW I’m right.
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 27, 2007 12:20AM)
I apologize if some of you are misunderstanding what I am saying or if I am misstating things the wrong way (i know, that was redundant) but there's really no call for personal attacks. All I've tried to do is play devils advocate in some of these posts and present an objective view of things and if I failed in that, I truly do apologize.
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 27, 2007 12:21AM)
Holly, he doesn't claim anything. He even said live on the air in the Israeli show that he doesn't have any powers. I'm sure he would also say it on the American show if the producers let him. But they do need to keep it somewhat mysterious, I doubt any of the mentalists would come out and say that it's all just an illusion. Ehud inplied he doesn't have any powers, more than any of the other mentalists there did.

Sixth Sense = The imagination. Which means that the Sixth Sense isn't real. How can he be any more clear than that? There's nothing personal in my posts to you, it's that you keep insisting things that are not true.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 12:33AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:21, DJM wrote:
There's nothing personal in my posts to you, it's that you keep insisting things that are not true.

[/quote]

I backed up my statements. The evidence is there at Ehud’s own website. The information I posted about him didn’t come out of some tabloid. It came from Ehud himself.

I’m done with this conversation. I’m not going to argue with you. The evidence is clear. I think you just don’t want to see it because you idolize Ehud.


Holly
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 27, 2007 12:35AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:14, HollyMental wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 00:55, Dynamike wrote:
I agree with you DJM.
[/quote]

Now I KNOW I’m right.
[/quote]
I was speaking on his comments toward Genshi. I do not know what DJM and you are discussing.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 12:39AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:35, Dynamike wrote:
I was speaking on his comments toward Genshi. I do not know what DJM and you are discussing.
[/quote]

I was only teasing with you Mike. I did think you were talking about our conversation but I was only playing with you. :)


Holly
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 27, 2007 12:45AM)
[quote]
I’m done with this conversation. I’m not going to argue with you. The evidence is clear. I think you just don’t want to see it because you idolize Ehud.

Holly
[/quote]

Idolize Ehud? I know nothing about him except from watching him on both of the Geller shows. I can't even call myself a fan. No surprise how you come up with false conclusions so easy.

If he wanted people to think he has powers then he would't have to deny it live on air for the entire country to hear, or in many interviews for the press. But whatever you tell yourself, Holly.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 12:51AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:45, DJM wrote:

Idolize Ehud? I know nothing about him except from watching him on both of the Geller shows. I can't even call myself a fan. No surprise how you come up with false conclusions so easy.

If he wanted people to think he has powers then he wouldn't have to deny it live on air for the entire country to hear, or in many interviews for the press. But whatever you tell yourself, Holly.
[/quote]

My apologies for the assumption that you were a fan. I could have sworn you said several times you thought he would win, which led me to believe you were a fan. If indeed that isn’t true, then I apologize. And apparently it’s not so I’m sorry.

It’s interesting that you say you know virtually nothing about him but yet defend him so staunchly when he claims to possess supernatural powers in the bio of his own website.


Holly
Message: Posted by: Vanian (Oct 27, 2007 12:56AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:51, HollyMental wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:45, DJM wrote:

Idolize Ehud? I know nothing about him except from watching him on both of the Geller shows. I can't even call myself a fan. No surprise how you come up with false conclusions so easy.

If he wanted people to think he has powers then he wouldn't have to deny it live on air for the entire country to hear, or in many interviews for the press. But whatever you tell yourself, Holly.
[/quote]

My apologies for the assumption that you were a fan. I could have sworn you said several times you thought he would win, which led me to believe you were a fan. If indeed that isn’t true, then I apologize. And apparently it’s not so I’m sorry.

It’s interesting that you say you know virtually nothing about him but yet defend him so staunchly when he claims to possess supernatural powers in the bio of his own website.


Holly
[/quote]

I seem to be doing the same sort of thing... I REALLY don't like Criss Angel, yet I've been defending him today all up and down these forums like some sort of fanboi... I really need to let everyone else just say whatever they feel about him even if I feel it's unjustified at times. But Criss is a big boy and he can fight his own fights from now on (not that he cares, with the money he's making!)
Message: Posted by: Brian Turntime (Oct 27, 2007 01:01AM)
[quote]Mariagi says:
GELLER is the ONLY ONE who could rightfully use THE Mentalist
[/quote]Please tell us you're not serious.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Oct 27, 2007 01:01AM)
[quote]
On 2007-10-27 01:56, genshi wrote:

I seem to be doing the same sort of thing... I REALLY don't like Criss Angel, yet I've been defending him today all up and down these forums like some sort of fanboi... I really need to let everyone else just say whatever they feel about him even if I feel it's unjustified at times. But Criss is a big boy and he can fight his own fights from now on.
[/quote]

Mentalists are by necessity very assertive and outspoken people. If you think about it, we get along pretty good, considering. :)


Holly
Message: Posted by: DJM (Oct 27, 2007 01:05AM)
Holly, is that his bio that you are talking about?

"I don't have any supernatural powers, on the contrary - my powers are so natural that they are super natural. In my show I combine my special abilities as a performer with magic and spirituality. My goal: to make this world a better place and to help people realize that our deepest desires aren't materialistic, but spiritual. If I can use all the publicity and stage-presence I get to bring people closer to the light, my destiny is fulfilled."


From what I understand, Ehud is a believer of the Kabbalah which is from where he takes his spirituality inspirarion from and combines it with magic. He says it very clear on his website he doesn't have any supernatural powers, and also in two of the Geller shows and in interviews.
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Oct 27, 2007 01:18AM)
Gosh! Is Phenomenon this boring?