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Topic: Bich - TNR
Message: Posted by: W:H (Nov 15, 2007 10:27PM)
Hey guys! I just wanted to let you know that we just put up the first video for Mathieu Bich's TNR. Check it out here:

http://www.theory11.com/tricks/tnr.php

Let me know what you think & if you have any questions.

Wayne Houchin
http://www.theory11.com
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Nov 15, 2007 10:31PM)
I think it looks fantastically awesome.

But what we all don't have is the specs for the effect.

What are the angles with this? That is my main concern are the angles.
Message: Posted by: Alan Patrick (Nov 15, 2007 10:32PM)
The effect looks pretty insane!

I never seen a Torn and restored with such little cover (actually I don't think there was any cover!)....and the kicker! I didn't see that one coming....WTF?

is there going to be other demos/previews or is this the only one?

it does look sweet though ;-)


AP
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Nov 15, 2007 10:33PM)
Full trailer when it comes out
Message: Posted by: W:H (Nov 15, 2007 10:35PM)
There will be a full preview posted closer to the time of release - as far as the angles go, they are just as good as any other torn & restored card (Reformation, Torn etc.)

Wayne Houchin
http://www.theory11.com
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Nov 15, 2007 10:36PM)
Hey does anyone know if you are examinable and clean at the end??
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Nov 15, 2007 10:37PM)
Seems like I'll pick this up the first week of next month :)
Message: Posted by: Blindside785 (Nov 15, 2007 10:37PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-15 23:36, jordanjohnson wrote:
Hey does anyone know if you are examinable and clean at the end??
[/quote]
"The routine that Chris teaches on the DVD DOES end clean & allows you to hand the card out at the very end."

Copy and pasting is the best thing in the world
Message: Posted by: W:H (Nov 15, 2007 10:37PM)
This is true :)

Wayne Houchin
http://www.theory11.com
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Nov 15, 2007 10:41PM)
Hmm interesting I wonder if it is immediately clean or their is some switch of some kind cuz it says the very end which may be a play on words meaning after a switch
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Nov 16, 2007 12:22AM)
Um if you can hand that card out for inspection right after that 4th peice is restored I will be totally blown away by this. Mathieu is a freakin genius so I wouldn't be surprised in all actuality.

p.s. Nice beaver there Chris....haha =)
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 12:26AM)
I would be blown away if you can hand it out after the 3rd piece...
Message: Posted by: Phatmeat (Nov 16, 2007 12:27AM)
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a switch since there is no mention that the card can be signed. I'm not complaining though. The beauty is in how clean and open it looks from start to finish.
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Nov 16, 2007 12:28AM)
Nope I'm gonna bet the ashes of my dead dog Fido that it is not immediatly examinable
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Nov 16, 2007 12:33AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 01:22, jimbowmanjr wrote:
Um if you can hand that card out for inspection right after that 4th peice is restored I will be totally blown away by this. Mathieu is a freakin genius so I wouldn't be surprised in all actuality.

p.s. Nice beaver there Chris....haha =)
[/quote]

I agree completely. And I doubt it. Not that Mathieu is a freakin genius. Obviously he is. I've been puzzling over this ever since I first saw it posted some months ago. I really have only a guess as to how he's doing it.
But handing out the card for inspection immediately after the fourth piece in place. Hmmmm. That would be astounding. But if the routine is clever enough to create that impression then I don't see how a TR can get much cleaner.
I suspect opinions will vary. The reviews will prove interesting.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 12:36AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 01:28, jordanjohnson wrote:
Nope I'm gonna bet the ashes of my dead dog Fido that it is not immediatly examinable
[/quote]

I'll bet 2 of my living dogs that it can be examined. I talked to Mathieu online, and he said you could do it with a signed card.
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Nov 16, 2007 12:44AM)
Well from what I see in the demo it cant. If so your ditching something in your hand but Ill wait for review to find out
Message: Posted by: Dan McLean (Nov 16, 2007 01:47AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 01:36, THEGUY26 wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 01:28, jordanjohnson wrote:
Nope I'm gonna bet the ashes of my dead dog Fido that it is not immediatly examinable
[/quote]

I'll bet 2 of my living dogs that it can be examined. I talked to Mathieu online, and he said you could do it with a signed card.
[/quote]
Having the card signed and passing it out IMMEDIATELY after restoration are two different things. I'm sure it can be signed but . . .
Frankly for me it's a moot point. The effect is visual stunning. Perfect really. All involved deserve much praise. I'm sure I'll wind up getting one.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 01:55AM)
Wayne Houchin (I think that's who it was) said it can be examined right after.
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Nov 16, 2007 02:07AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 02:55, THEGUY26 wrote:
Wayne Houchin (I think that's who it was) said it can be examined right after.
[/quote]

Actually, he said you can hand it out at the end. Usually this means there is a clean up.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 02:21AM)
Well, that does mean you end clean, right?
Message: Posted by: magicstudent (Nov 16, 2007 03:23AM)
If I am not mistaken, the card is transformed at the end?? If so and it can be signed, then the signature should also be able to change place???

Jeff
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 03:48AM)
If you know any other torn and restored card, you would know what I mean. There is no transformation taking place if you are tearing the signed card, and restoring it.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Nov 16, 2007 03:49AM)
Wow...slow down, some people seem to be trying to guess the method from the teaser?!?!

I watched it, am fooled, blown away, and think they are the most visual restorations I have ever seen!!! Ususally the hands come together, or there is some hard pressing down, but with this...they just fuse!!!

People should just be amazed and not speculate a method before the release. Mathieu is a great guy and I am sure this will be nothing short of incredible...who cares if it isn't IMMEDIATELY examinable, that is why Chris teaches a handling where you can 'seem' to hand it out, and I am sure that it will look natural and have a reason. We shall see..i think the restorations alone mean that this is going to amaze people. Now all I want is a time machine to go forward a week!
Message: Posted by: VcosNJ (Nov 16, 2007 05:27AM)
Yeah I loved the restorations. Only magicians will nitpick it to death. Blame it on curiosity. I think we should just enjoy it from a layman's perspective. I think people are looking for real magic. :)
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 05:35AM)
Chris, am I one of the people trying to figure it out before release? This is the most visual restoration of any kind I have ever seen.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Nov 16, 2007 05:50AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 06:35, THEGUY26 wrote:
Chris, am I one of the people trying to figure it out before release? This is the most visual restoration of any kind I have ever seen.
[/quote]

I am not going to single out people for this, just think people should enjoy and be amazed, and not think to themselves or say 'Can it be examined now at this stage etc'...the best way is to look at it as it can't. The reason you do this is so that if it can, you will be even more impressed, but if it can't, you won't be deluded into thinking it can do something it can't. If it can be examined at stages, BIG bonus, but if it can't, you have to think 'Ok...it can't be examined at every stage...do I still want it'??? Because if I look at it like that, I think, 'Who cares?!?!' it is so visual, and at the end of performing the effect, I CAN hand it out. However, if it can be handed out at stages, I think, BONUS!!!
Message: Posted by: magicandsoul (Nov 16, 2007 07:29AM)
That looked just like Holy Grail by Jordan Johnson. His video has vanished from YouTube but the thread still exists here at the Café. The 2 effects looked identical.

I guess I'm the only one thus far that thinks it looks more like you are repairing the card (and not doing such a good job because of the uneven borders and the light shining through the gaps) rather than magically restoring it.

Probably fun to know how to do...but no thanks.

M&S
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Nov 16, 2007 07:40AM)
Holy crap heck if could even try to guess on that one. props to mr bich
Message: Posted by: jeanluc_67 (Nov 16, 2007 08:46AM)
Although this looks nice Nothing looks better than Gared Crawford's Bits and Pieces.
Message: Posted by: jimbowmanjr (Nov 16, 2007 08:47AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 06:50, Christopher Williams wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 06:35, THEGUY26 wrote:
Chris, am I one of the people trying to figure it out before release? This is the most visual restoration of any kind I have ever seen.
[/quote]

I am not going to single out people for this, just think people should enjoy and be amazed, and not think to themselves or say 'Can it be examined now at this stage etc'...the best way is to look at it as it can't. The reason you do this is so that if it can, you will be even more impressed, but if it can't, you won't be deluded into thinking it can do something it can't. If it can be examined at stages, BIG bonus, but if it can't, you have to think 'Ok...it can't be examined at every stage...do I still want it'??? Because if I look at it like that, I think, 'Who cares?!?!' it is so visual, and at the end of performing the effect, I CAN hand it out. However, if it can be handed out at stages, I think, BONUS!!!
[/quote]

Exactly Chris. Personally I just want to be able to hand this card out at the end of the routine because I think handing out a T&R card at the end really seals the deal for the spectator. Handing out the card at multiple points of a routine would break the rhythm and flow of the entire routine in my opinion. It would be like stopping in the middle of a coins across routine to let the spec look at the coins, just makes no sense. Method is irrelevant, I am sure this is a real work of art here by Mathieu that has been time and audience tested to the max.

The only bit that is confusing to me from a presentation standpoint is the color change as the ending. I am just going to wait and see the full construction of this routine, at which point I am sure it will all make sense.

--Jim
Message: Posted by: nikyas (Nov 16, 2007 08:47AM)
The uneven borders seems unappealing to me but that's my opinion others might disagree
Message: Posted by: Illusion & Beyond (Nov 16, 2007 09:06AM)
I still like the looks of TORN better. Best of all it has everyhting you could look for. (It is supposed to be signed AND handed out right after the last fusion takes place). I would still like to see some reviews when this comes out.
Peace
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Nov 16, 2007 10:45AM)
The best part of a torn restored is when they tug at the seams when you hand it out. I like the look of this better perosnlly as there is so much cover going on in torn in compareson
Message: Posted by: JustinClark (Nov 16, 2007 10:57AM)
I think a few of you are missing the point of this. From what I understand this is a routine, NOT a single effect like just tearing up a card and putting it back together. A spec picks a card and you seek to find it. Unfortunatly you produce the wrong card. Then you tear up the mistake card and piece it back together. Which doesn't make sense until you turn it around and show that it has changed into their selection. The restoration itself is only the rise to the real climax which is the card changing to the selection.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Nov 16, 2007 11:17AM)
Ahhh! that is cool justin! thanks for clearing that up for me.
Message: Posted by: JustinClark (Nov 16, 2007 11:54AM)
Of course, anytime. We Ohioans need to stick together you know?
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 12:03PM)
Yeah, that might help if you fall asleep in Springwood.

1, 2, Freddy's coming for you...

TnR would really be the perfect T&R trick if all you need is a deck of card to perform it.
Message: Posted by: The Mac (Nov 16, 2007 03:37PM)
IF (and big if) its like holy grail or bits and pieces (pretty sure its the same methods as I ve created the same trick independently years ago- Chris I spoke to you about it way back..dunoo if you remember) then its pretty good idea but alas the lining up of pieces and it being handled examined leaves something to be desired hence the routining to have it become another card.

But remember I said IF.

However if this is a new method and a new step forward..I'll be one of the first to buy this.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 16, 2007 07:00PM)
I know the method of Holy Grail.
Version one let's you sign the card back and front.
After the restauration, that is angle proof, the card can be handed out immediately and kept as a souvenir. It can't get much cleaner then that.

Birchs TnR looks good but the teaser doesn't even show the full effect.
I think after the wrong card changes to the spectators card it can be handed out.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Nov 16, 2007 07:20PM)
There's a old Ken Brooke trick where you show two cards, put on on the table (or in someone's hands) and cut up the other. Mind you that old does not have a visible restoration phase, instead going for something where you tape up the card after the pieces change but you can see how Bich's idea can play into that routine.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 16, 2007 07:53PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 20:00, Silvio Solaris wrote:

Birchs TnR looks good but the teaser doesn't even show the full effect.
I think after the wrong card changes to the spectators card it can be handed out.
[/quote]

Like you said, it is a TEASER. Sooner before it comes out, there will be a new preview showing much more.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Nov 17, 2007 05:53AM)
Let's just wait and see....I think this will be excellent, as most of his
other effects....
Message: Posted by: cosmicsecret (Nov 17, 2007 06:53AM)
Looks good to me.If it will replace your favorite torn and restored card effect will be known once the effect is released and reviewed.
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (Nov 17, 2007 08:53AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 11:57, JustinClark wrote:
From what I understand this is a routine, NOT a single effect like just tearing up a card and putting it back together. A spec picks a card and you seek to find it. Unfortunatly you produce the wrong card. Then you tear up the mistake card and piece it back together. Which doesn't make sense until you turn it around and show that it has changed into their selection. The restoration itself is only the rise to the real climax which is the card changing to the selection.
[/quote]

Cool routine
Message: Posted by: Constance (Nov 17, 2007 09:59AM)
I like the restorations but the last one looks a little fishy. Can't wait to see the whole demo.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Nov 17, 2007 10:17AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 20:00, Silvio Solaris wrote:
I know the method of Holy Grail.
Version one let's you sign the card back and front.
After the restauration, that is angle proof, the card can be handed out immediately and kept as a souvenir. It can't get much cleaner then that.

Birchs TnR looks good but the teaser doesn't even show the full effect.
I think after the wrong card changes to the spectators card it can be handed out.
[/quote]
Agreed Silvio, I like the fact that Holy Grail can also be performed surrounded. I have already put Jordans effect in my rotation, just stunning.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 17, 2007 12:47PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-17 11:17, Irishghost wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 20:00, Silvio Solaris wrote:
I know the method of Holy Grail.
Version one let's you sign the card back and front.
After the restauration, that is angle proof, the card can be handed out immediately and kept as a souvenir. It can't get much cleaner then that.

Birchs TnR looks good but the teaser doesn't even show the full effect.
I think after the wrong card changes to the spectators card it can be handed out.
[/quote]
Agreed Silvio, I like the fact that Holy Grail can also be performed surrounded. I have already put Jordans effect in my rotation, just stunning.
[/quote]

:heavymetal:
Message: Posted by: shoosh018 (Nov 23, 2007 01:24PM)
A review:

As a torn and restored enthusiast, I was very excited to get this effect. I bought the DVD and instant download as soon as I could. This is a review of the instant download, as I haven’t received the DVD yet.

Pros:
VISUAL, VISUAL, VISUAL!!!!
The video quality is great.
The instruction for both the construction of the gimmick and the performance is detailed and complete.
The biggest positive I have to say about this effect, is that it is not just an effect. It is a complete and structured routine. I must say that I was very unsure about the “kicker ending”. However, in the context of the routine, it works wonderfully.

Cons:
This is NOT anything close to impromptu!!!!
You do have to make a gimmick.
There is a fair amount of preparation time, and materials needed.
You cannot hand the card out immediately after the last restoration.

Summary:
The way I feel about this effect is very reminiscent of the way I felt after watching Color Fusion by: Eric James. This is an amazing effect when performed properly. However, the amount of preparation and set-up are a little much for me. I will save this for special occasions and for fellow magi. As for the rest of the time, I’m sticking with DG’s TORN.

I hope this helps you make a decision about if this trick is right for you.
Thanks,

CHR!S
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Nov 23, 2007 01:29PM)
Well, a review will come from me soon after I have had chance to get the materials to make it up etc, but the gimmick is way way cool, and I think the method is cooler than the effect!!! I don't actually think anyone in the world but Mathieu could have come up with this, and I also think there is only one man in the world who can make the gimmick to this sooo good that he could sell them...but I won't mention his name. The gimmick construction really isn't that hard, and there is so much going for this, that the set up makes it worth it, I know what I will be doing all day tomorrow!!! :D:D:D As I said, more in depth thoughts coming soon, but first impression, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Nov 23, 2007 01:59PM)
Hello guys,

I am going to have to agree with Christopher, I don't want to give a review yet as I havent made up the gimmick just yet, but I will do that and then post a review.
But this effect is not impromptu, but can kill magicians and laymen alike.
It is a different type of trick with a killer climax that is bound to astound even the most skeptic spectators.
First impression: Wow!! Very clean TNR
More later

aLEX
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Nov 23, 2007 03:14PM)
Can anyone comment on the difficulty of "cleaning up" and handing the card out after the last restoration/transformation?
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 23, 2007 05:10PM)
I have an idea you could use for the change. You could tear up the wrong card, "killing" it. Then, you put it back together "reincarnating" it into the selection. How does that sound?
Message: Posted by: Alan Patrick (Nov 23, 2007 05:31PM)
Chris..quick question

the description says that the transformation at the end is optional...

would you choose to not include it in the end for some performances?

the restorations of each piece is so clean I think there may be times where you may not do the transformation...

basically...would you perform it without the transformation or keep it as is..hope that clear? lol..sorry

Thanks

AP
Message: Posted by: BlackDove (Nov 23, 2007 05:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-16 01:28, jordanjohnson wrote:
Nope I'm gonna bet the ashes of my dead dog Fido that it is not immediatly examinable
[/quote]

You can ship that dead dog out to me then.
Because it can be examined! haha
Yeah this is a really cool effect, ill be using it.

Calvin Lauber
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Nov 23, 2007 06:09PM)
Not immediatley after the last restoration so I'm keeping my ashes
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Nov 23, 2007 06:17PM)
Newb2, it can be done very casually, and all looks fair.

Alan, I would always use the change as I like it, and I have ideas for myself to put it into a routine. I think the change at the end is great, and yes it is optional, but I think I will use it more with the change than without
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Nov 23, 2007 06:33PM)
I just posted this on theory 11 as many were asking questions... here's what I wrote (it's a bit muddled as I wasn't taking my time writing lol)

I have the download also and so will give some brief thoughts and info... I will do a full review once I feel I have put enough time into it etc and performed it for a bit.

Firstly the set-up... well first time it took me quite a while.
Firstly because I never had all the things you need just lying around, secondly because I was going along with the explanation, and thirdly because I was eating my tea at the time lol.

You will need a few bits and bobs, most of which I'm sure you'll already have, one of which you may not... I used an alternative mentioned... don't ask lol.

I have made up a couple of gimmicks since and it's possible to get one made in about 5-7 minutes.

Angles while performing... well you have about 170 degree safety cone, so as long as it's like that infront you'll be fine. just not directly at the sides or from behind.
Overall I'd say the angles are decent for this style of effect.

The gimmick is something I'd def class as a gimmick... and it's reusable also, well to an extent.

The card cannot be handed directly out, and the way to clean-up is kinda basic and not good in all situations... but it does the job... but I'll be changing that part for sure.
Also the card isn't able to be fully looked at before switching.

There is a limit to what cards you can have the wrong one change into.

The change is optional.

The tearing process is a bit... off... not like your simply ripping, but very carefully and delicately ripping lol, I think this could be reduced for sure.

The restorations are so clean and visal, def have not come across a restoration phase like the ones on here, and the change is killer.

The routine included is ok, bt I won't be performing it that way... not my style, but the good thing is this is very personalisable.

Chris Kenner done an amazing job with the teaching on this, definitely was fun to watch and he covered everything very well.
I really liked his style... excellent.

Though not taught, ive already come up with ways of having this signed... so it is possible.
This is very versatile... there is more that can be done than the basic routine... you could have multiple colored backs... mismatched pieces... multi cards etc etc.

The method is pretty clever, though I gotta say that when I first learned of the workings I was a bit disappointed as I had been working on something similar and so the method didn't surprise me, but it did improve upon what I had been doing in a couple of ways, and so my disappointment didn't last long.

The price is not much and this is so visual etc that I'm sure many will like it... I do.

Well there's a bit of info.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 24, 2007 12:20AM)
Two words: Holy Grail

Gimmick: Yes, 5 - 10 minutes max.

Signature: Yes, front and back anywhere on card.

Ripp: As uneven as you like.

Restoration: Piece by piece.

Angles: 360

Examinable: Yes, can be kept as a souvenir.

Release: I told Jordan not to release this yet.
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (Nov 24, 2007 12:43AM)
My first impression...TnR is great. Christopher, I agree, the method is almost cooler than the effect; and the effect is great. I too need to make one before giving a full review, but as far as the DVD, Effect, and Method are concerned, I'm more then pleased.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 24, 2007 01:23AM)
How hard is this to actually perform?
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 24, 2007 01:29AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 02:23, THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) wrote:
How hard is this to actually perform?
[/quote]

Bichs TnR or Jordans Holy Grail? ;)
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 24, 2007 01:33AM)
Jordans TnR you simply perform fusing piece by piece together like real magic...Then hand the card out...Ooh, pardon me we are discussing the TnR by Bich...nough said.

Silvio
Message: Posted by: Ben Morris-Rains (Nov 24, 2007 01:43AM)
I kind of retract my previous statement of not liking the change. I think the change is really key to this effect. If you want to do just a torn and restored card I would do Torn or Ripped and Restored or something along that lines. If you want to do something special and have it wrapped around a whole routine, I'd do this.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 24, 2007 02:50AM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 02:29, Silvio Solaris wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 02:23, THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) wrote:
How hard is this to actually perform?
[/quote]

Bichs TnR or Jordans Holy Grail? ;)
[/quote]

I'm talking about Bich's, I know the main idea behind Holy Grail.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Nov 24, 2007 03:51AM)
I know the method to Jordans after he sent it to me...but this is no disrespect to Jordan, but I prefer the Bich method
Message: Posted by: Paul h. (Nov 24, 2007 01:19PM)
I love how people talk and talk about routines that you can't even get. ,let's keep on topic so I can hear more about the routine and whether or not I will purchase it. Unless people want to actually compare the two methods, don't bother talking about HG.

How does this compare to Reformation?

Best,

Paul h.
Message: Posted by: cheekychap (Nov 24, 2007 01:48PM)
This is great :)
and I love that beaver ;)
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 24, 2007 02:05PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 14:19, Paul h. wrote:
I love how people talk and talk about routines that you can't even get. ,let's keep on topic so I can hear more about the routine and whether or not I will purchase it. Unless people want to actually compare the two methods, don't bother talking about HG.

How does this compare to Reformation?

Best,

Paul h.
[/quote]

It's quite different, but still worth learning.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Nov 24, 2007 02:30PM)
Are there other ways to keep the torn pieces on the table than keeping them in your mouth?
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Nov 24, 2007 02:50PM)
The specs can hold onto them
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Nov 24, 2007 03:06PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 15:50, Y2John wrote:
The specs can hold onto them
[/quote]
Wow, that seals the deal - I'm ordering! Thanks John !!
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Nov 24, 2007 03:51PM)
[quote]
Chris Kenner done an amazing job with the teaching on this, definitely was fun to watch and he covered everything very well.
I really liked his style... excellent.
[/quote]
LOL,I thought Chris Kenner looks like the lean and mean Tom Arnold for a minute! :)
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 24, 2007 03:51PM)
I got this too, it's genious!
Message: Posted by: palmtreemagic! (Nov 24, 2007 04:28PM)
The set-up for this isn't easy if you're not used to making your own gimmicks. Took me almost 40 minutes the first try to get it right, 25 minutes my second try. The set-up time could be less but the restoration won't look as good without a near perfect gimmick. The gimmick also wears out pretty quickly.
That being said, the method is genius and its a lot of fun to practice. I'll save this for special occassions, maybe to change my client's business card to my business card. Torn is still better overall for stroller's but I think this is a better one-time trick.
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 24, 2007 04:51PM)
I wish they would sell the gimmick itself.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Nov 24, 2007 06:11PM)
Im just in Awe that they offer, an HD dvd for 24.95 and a Download, and both for 29.95 now that sounds like a pretty good time. Now what if you don't own a HD player? I do, but what about others?
Message: Posted by: Newb2 (Nov 24, 2007 06:15PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-24 19:11, paisa23 wrote:
Im just in Awe that they offer, an HD dvd for 24.95 and a Download, and both for 29.95 now that sounds like a pretty good time. Now what if you don't own a HD player? I do, but what about others?
[/quote]

Hi Paisa, on the website it just says a High Resolution DVD. I'm pretty sure this differs from the second generation dvds like HD or blu-ray.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Nov 24, 2007 06:17PM)
Gotcha. Thanks and now I feel like an idiot. :blush:
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Nov 24, 2007 06:47PM)
OK how does the Download work? Does the DVD have stuff that the DL does not? I am at work and want to get this DL since ill have 5 days to work on it out here, but I would also like to have this on my Laptop.
Message: Posted by: teevtee (Nov 24, 2007 10:14PM)
Yea, there is nothing "HD" about it, it is a standard DVD in standard DVD resolution. I absolutely hate it when people use terms like HD incorrectly because it becomes very misleading (as we just saw). they may have very well shot it with HD cameras but unless it is being mastered in HD and released on HD discs (Blu Ray or HD DVD) and viewed in an HD player on an HD monitor with the proper HD connections then it simply is NOT HD. So this DVD will look nice and sharp like any other DVD but is SD (Standard Def.) all the way.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Nov 27, 2007 11:20PM)
What are we looking at? A clean T&R card effect, right?
Is Bichs TnR that? I don't think so. Why?

Can the card be signed? NO
Can the card be handed out? NO
Can the creases be removed? NO
Message: Posted by: THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) (Nov 27, 2007 11:35PM)
Actually, The creases can be moved. That's probably the next best thing to do. The card can be examined, also.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Dec 2, 2007 11:28PM)
I watch bich dvd. nice effect but I'm not sure if this is a real performer or worker. maybe fun for the magic buddies. I think ill check out what silvio is talking about
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Dec 3, 2007 05:49AM)
Holy Grail looks excellent... but I'm starting to think that the method is something ive already been using, but stopped for varios reasons... if it is the same it's true it can be handed out after, well possible.

TnR is not something I'll be using as though it's pretty visual, I just don't feel it's that good to be honest.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Dec 21, 2007 01:43AM)
I never liked the pieces going in the mouth. Depends on the venue I guess.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Dec 21, 2007 03:41AM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-21 02:43, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
I never liked the pieces going in the mouth. Depends on the venue I guess.
[/quote]

I agree. That always bothered me as well.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Dec 24, 2007 08:17AM)
I hand out the pieces to different spectators. Adds a little something to the effect(The Holy grail). Hey, were are the reviews for TnR? I thought some members here said they would post them once the gimmick was made, and that was close to a month ago?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Dec 24, 2007 10:00PM)
[quote]
On 2007-11-28 00:20, Silvio Solaris wrote:
What are we looking at? A clean T&R card effect, right?
Is Bichs TnR that? I don't think so. Why?

Can the card be signed? NO
Can the card be handed out? NO
Can the creases be removed? NO
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but the REAL answerers re:


Can the card be signed? YES
Can the card be handed out? YES
Can the creases be removed? YES
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Dec 26, 2007 06:33PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-24 23:00, gdw wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-11-28 00:20, Silvio Solaris wrote:
What are we looking at? A clean T&R card effect, right?
Is Bichs TnR that? I don't think so. Why?

Can the card be signed? NO
Can the card be handed out? NO
Can the creases be removed? NO
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but the REAL answerers re:


Can the card be signed? YES
Can the card be handed out? YES
Can the creases be removed? YES
[/quote]

For sure can't be signed...and for the other you have to make a change first.
A clean T&R does that all without changing the Card like Holy Grail does.
Message: Posted by: yachanin (Dec 27, 2007 01:20AM)
Wow. What a difference in information. Can the card be signed, handed out, and can the creases be removed? GDW says "Yes" to everything, while Silvio says "No" to everything. Are we dealing with semantics here?

Regards, Steve
Message: Posted by: joseph (Dec 27, 2007 06:27AM)
Well, yes and no....
Message: Posted by: yachanin (Dec 27, 2007 07:41AM)
Hi Joseph,

You say that with such conviction :)

Regards, Steve
Message: Posted by: joseph (Dec 27, 2007 02:49PM)
:hmm: ...I am as confused as you, Steve...I probably will pick this one up and find out for myself....
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Dec 27, 2007 03:26PM)
I am surprised enough has not been said in other forums. The restored card cannot be handed to a spectator. Signing, handing out, de-creasing, requires a switch. This is similar to other gaff techniques and different from "Torn" type handling where the signed card is switched out during the tear and back in during the restoration and so of course can be directly handed out.
Message: Posted by: Acecardician (Dec 28, 2007 01:57AM)
If you do a die box or a Zig Zag, or any other prop magic, do you hand it out for examination? No.
I don't know about these torn and restored, but if they look good visually, why bother handing them out?
I use gimmicked props all the time, and no one ever yells to examine them. If they do, by the time they do, it's either put away, or I had time to switch it.
So I want to do the most visually stunning torn and restored.
Which is it?

ACE
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (Dec 28, 2007 02:16AM)
It just depends on what you are looking for but a big plus for Holy Grail is that it can be done completely surrounded so there are no worries about angles when performing this...
Message: Posted by: gdw (Dec 28, 2007 10:21AM)
To be more specific with my answers.

In TnR, the clean up is taught which allows for the final card to be handed out.

I believe Silvio was referring only to the card while still gimmicked.


You can have the initial card that is torn and restored signed.

I believe Silvio was referring to the final card that it is transformed into being un-able to be signed.

There are many ways in which you can remove the creases of a folded card, it is not a necessity that you leave it folded. Many people will just use a colour change to remove the creases if they so desire. This aspect is not taught with TnR, but is something that is clearly possible as a finish for any torn and restored card that ends with a folded card.

I hope this clears things up, at least to the best of my knowledge.
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Dec 28, 2007 11:25AM)
I'll try and answer some of the questions etc as there seems to be a difference of opinion on what actually can and cannot be done.

Firstly when it comes to signing... well yes and no.
Yes it is possible to sign the original selection, but it would look odd as when you turn around to show the different card has changed to the selection... there will be no sig.
So it can be signed but will not look right, though I guess you could go ahead and restore the sig after, so first just the card is restored etc... then you restore it back completely by causing the sig to come back... or something like that.

When it comes to handing out etc, well first you need to switch, and for this the card must come back to the deck.
So it can't be instantly handed out as the clean-up is not routined into the tearing and restoring process... it's done after.
Also once restored, you can't even fully show the card till the switch has taken place...cover is required.
The creases do get removed though.
The card is handed ot at the end and the spec can keep it etc.

I don't think TnR is really that good though, sure it's visual, but the gimmick is nothing special, the switch taught is rubbish for this sort of effect, and, in my opinion, TnR is just simply not that good.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Dec 28, 2007 12:07PM)
[quote]
On 2007-12-28 12:25, Y2John wrote:
I'll try and answer some of the questions etc as there seems to be a difference of opinion on what actually can and cannot be done.

Firstly when it comes to signing... well yes and no.
Yes it is possible to sign the original selection, but it would look odd as when you turn around to show the different card has changed to the selection... there will be no sig.
So it can be signed but will not look right, though I guess you could go ahead and restore the sig after, so first just the card is restored etc... then you restore it back completely by causing the sig to come back... or something like that.

When it comes to handing out etc, well first you need to switch, and for this the card must come back to the deck.
So it can't be instantly handed out as the clean-up is not routined into the tearing and restoring process... it's done after.
Also once restored, you can't even fully show the card till the switch has taken place...cover is required.
The creases do get removed though.
The card is handed ot at the end and the spec can keep it etc.

I don't think TnR is really that good though, sure it's visual, but the gimmick is nothing special, the switch taught is rubbish for this sort of effect, and, in my opinion, TnR is just simply not that good.
[/quote]

I believe everything you said is true. I just would like to add that you can have the card that is torn signed if you wish.
However, I do not believe that, in any way, should this effect need a card to be signed.

The best way to present it, imho, is probably in a similar manner to a TnR transpo type effect. With out the transpo, that is. A card is chosen, you attempt to find it and fail, so you tear up the card you found. offering to make up for the mistake, you perform magic with the torn card, ie: restoring it.
As an added magical touch, you also correct your initial mistake by turning the restored card into the true selection.

Also, I would like to add that, yes there is "cover", but it is probably the most minuscule cover there could be, and is also completely natural. The only way to cover less would be to hold the cards by the very corners and spin it.
Message: Posted by: krisnevling (Feb 6, 2008 02:18AM)
On my DVD "K'Link" I have a completely impromptu routine that I feel is more direct than "TnR" and it uses no gimmicks. The effect is as follows: A card is freely selected(no force) and signed across the face then lost in the deck. The magician finds the wrong card so to make up for his mistake he does a trick with the wrong card. This card(witch can be signed but I never have it signed) is torn into 4 pieces and restored one piece at a time. After the final restoration the card is turned over and found to be the original signed card. I would also like to mention that once the wrong card is found and you start the tearing procedure you never go near the deck again yet the card transforms into the signed selection.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Feb 6, 2008 11:29AM)
COOL!!! "REinCARDnation 2- The return of the farce"

This thread is about TNR. Not Kris' next (Laughable) outing at magic fakers.
Start a thread.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Feb 6, 2008 02:13PM)
If you think about it, most sleight of had T&R's could recreate this effect, as most use at least two cards.

However, they would not look as clean, or as direct as TnR.
Message: Posted by: milez (Mar 2, 2008 09:40PM)
The restoration looks amazing, and the kicker ending may suit some people. My biggest quip is the clean-up. The method taught in the dvd is not something I would use as there are many other more deceptive methods.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Mar 22, 2008 04:36PM)
My main thought when watching this is what is the logic in the torn card transforming into a different card? You are restoring "their card" but in the end it's not their card? Then whose card is it?

Now I can see the possibility if someone had previously chosen a card from a previous effect, and you failed to find the card and went directly into THIS effect, and lo and behold, it changes into the first card. That would be a real shocker!

And then, perhaps the card you tore winds up in your pocket. That would be cool.

But other than those concessions, the point of the plot of this effect has been going right over my head.
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Mar 23, 2008 03:55PM)
I got TnR a little while ago. I can really honestly say that I like it. If its used with the proper patter and you spin a little bit of a tale. (The patter that Kenner uses in the explination...Kind of..Sucks). Be prepared to make up a good presentation if you plan on changing the card. You don't have to change the card at the end of course. Its a matter of choice and presentation.

As far as the mechanics go I thought that the gimmick was really ingenious. I made up two of them in a few minutes the first time I did it.

You ARE limited to what cards you use for both the gimmick and the specs card. I was sort of disappointed by that But I guess its no huge deal. Setup is quick and reset is is fairly fast.

Not a bad effect. Just a little bit of work.

Tim
Message: Posted by: Paul Hughes (Mar 24, 2008 04:19PM)
Hmmm. There's some interesting word play going on here. I have both effects - TnR and Holy Grail (I'm a bit of a collector of Piece by Piece restores).

Anyway they are both good effects with their own pros and cons - I must take issue with the quote that you can hand out the restored card with Holy Grail straight away. As taught on the DVD and as with TnR a s***ch is required. In fairness I suppose you *could* hand the restored Holy Grail card out, but it would be a risk that I wouldn't personally take.

The TnR gimmick just made me chuckle - it really is very, very, very clever. Typical Bich! The method is as fun as the effect!

The TnR gimmick is more work to construct than Grail, but you don't need to be Rob Bromley to pull it off.

For me TnR looks more magical - just touching the edges together and they bond, whereas for me Holy Grail's restores look to me like, well, what the method is.

All said and done though they are both very strong effects - Grail can be performed surrounded, but for me Matthieu's version looks more magical. The clean up on TnR is a bit "iffy", and I, ahem, switched it for another method.

Grail is more direct - one card, nothing added, nothing taken away.

Your mileage may vary - its a close call. I just love the thinking behind Bich's version - its one of those effects that once you see the method you are more impressed!
Message: Posted by: anticoin (Mar 25, 2008 01:46AM)
Who's Rob Bromley?
Message: Posted by: pepka (Mar 25, 2008 02:23AM)
I ordered TnR totally out of curiosity. I haven't done that in a LONG time. I have the utmost respect for Matthieu and Chris. However, I'm a bit disappointed. The thing is, if you are doing an effect close-up with one card at the end, you should not go back to the deck for any reason. People are IMMEDIATELY going to want to examine it. You should be able to drop it on the table. That's what I want in a torn and restored routine. I will say that the method is very cool. I'm not very handy with such things, so I don't intend on making one. If they ever sell a gimmick, I'm sure I'll buy it. (As long as it's not in those butt-ugly Guardian cards.) One interesting thing Chris says in the video is about how much you'll enjoy performing this in front of the mirror, even if you never perform it for real people. It sounds to me like he knew most purchasers would never use this in the real world. I'm sticking with Torn and Restored Transpo and (working on) Reformation.
Message: Posted by: nikyas (Mar 25, 2008 03:33AM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-25 03:23, pepka wrote:
I ordered TnR totally out of curiosity. I haven't done that in a LONG time. I have the utmost respect for Matthieu and Chris. However, I'm a bit disappointed. The thing is, if you are doing an effect close-up with one card at the end, you should not go back to the deck for any reason. People are IMMEDIATELY going to want to examine it. You should be able to drop it on the table. That's what I want in a torn and restored routine. I will say that the method is very cool. I'm not very handy with such things, so I don't intend on making one. If they ever sell a gimmick, I'm sure I'll buy it. (As long as it's not in those butt-ugly Guardian cards.) One interesting thing Chris says in the video is about how much you'll enjoy performing this in front of the mirror, even if you never perform it for real people. It sounds to me like he knew most purchasers would never use this in the real world. I'm sticking with Torn and Restored Transpo and (working on) Reformation.
[/quote]

I have to agree. This only looks good in front of a mirror
Message: Posted by: Paul Hughes (Mar 27, 2008 06:56PM)
Rob Bromley is the UK's foremost card gaffing wizard. His stuff is mind numbing.

Pepka does have a point however with regards to instantly handing the card out - and to that end I still use TORN as my ultimate four piece restore.
Message: Posted by: Branden Darcel (Apr 4, 2008 09:07AM)
A lot of complaints about TNR and I really don't get it. IMO, TNR is pretty awesome. I do need to figure out a possible different handling for the switch out at the end, but other than that I think TNR is an awesome piece by piece restoration and I like having the option of having the kicker ending or not. The method is genius!
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Apr 4, 2008 09:33AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-04 10:07, Branden Darcel wrote:
A lot of complaints about TNR and I really don't get it. IMO, TNR is pretty awesome. I do need to figure out a possible different handling for the switch out at the end, but other than that I think TNR is an awesome piece by piece restoration and I like having the option of having the kicker ending or not. The method is genius!
[/quote]

myabe in your performace setting, but a card routine that is not only angly but light sensitive is not very usable for a lot of us. a fun toy though
Message: Posted by: Branden Darcel (Apr 7, 2008 03:51AM)
[quote]


myabe in your performace setting, but a card routine that is not only angly but light sensitive is not very usable for a lot of us. a fun toy though
[/quote]


I can see what you mean there. I still have some messing around to do with it before I can be certain of how practical it will be for me.