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Topic: OHMAK flourish video clip
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Dec 22, 2007 10:38PM)
A few people have been asking me to upload a clip of the OHMAK (One Handed Mid Air Knot ) flourish. They either have the manuscript , Hunter Knot Revisited and can't get the timing right, or are just interested to see it in action.

So, its up, short and sweet, around 35 seconds worth, but will give you a good idea how it goes. Note, this does not show you the entire routine, just the flourish that can be inserted into other routines. You'll find the YouTube clip at the bottom of the information page, it has not been indexed in the YouTube search engine at this moment.

Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Dec 23, 2007 07:47AM)
Nice demo
It is a variation of the Will Rogers snap knot.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jan 3, 2008 04:23AM)
Thanks for posting this.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 5, 2008 01:31AM)

Let us know how you get on with the toss!
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 5, 2008 11:15AM)
That is so freaking misleading. The knot is not knotting in the air. In the video the rope is let go, he catches it in the right position for a one handed knot, and then does the standard, stock, one handed knot.
An in-the-air knot would be: to have no knot, throw the rope in the air, and when it lands, there is a not. That is not what the video shows. Knotting to it.
Sorry, eeeeehhhhhh (big buzzing sound)!!
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 5, 2008 12:01PM)
Now, these are quick attempts at something I don't normally do.
The first one is two hands, but the knot happens while the rope is in movement:


This one is the One handed attempt ala the "hunter" demo?


I feel the difference is that the rope leaves the hand before the knot is made, and lands with a knotted rope. Under the constraints of trying to keep this close and in view of the video camera, there was limited movement. In a performance, I would do the move and pickup while moving my hand in an arch so as not to tip off the method.
Ideally, I would like to have the rope draped over my hand and in an upward movement, have the action work.
Man, I know I am gonna hang myself with these knots.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 5, 2008 12:19PM)
Ian is right again. The only way to do a knot that appears in mid air is perfectly demonstrated by lovely Laurie, and to make us macho men feel even more inadaquite she then does it with her other hand. Lauries has chosen a dufficult method, a stiff rope, this Canadian cow girl from Ottawa is quite a guy, and I would be honored to buy her a beer.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 5, 2008 12:34PM)
Here is a better link if you had trouble with my movie file.

Two attempts on the clip.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 5, 2008 12:59PM)
There is a different version where you hole the ends one in each hand, twist the middle in front of you, and throw one end through the middle. I learned that one in boy scouts 50 years ago.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 5, 2008 01:07PM)
Two handed

I like the Hunter knot video clip, its close to an in the air, but not quite.
His first two take were the best, the repeats were backslides.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 5, 2008 02:10PM)
Ian that's it
It is hard to get one up on you. Thank Laurie is better than both of us.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 5, 2008 02:38PM)
Her coin rolls are even better than her rope.
Oh by the way, to avoid plageurism, my clip was called "omak" one-handed mid air knot, could have been omk, or "bomk" bad one-handed mid-air knot.
I have entirely too much time on my hands.
Message: Posted by: bubbleburst2004 (Jan 5, 2008 04:28PM)
I think you guys are getting too hung up (small rope joke) on the name, rather than looking at the whole move itself. I got this when it first came out a year or so ago and think its very nice and pleased to see it now "live". Yes, you're right, its a standard one handed knot in the mechanics of how the rope gets knotted, but its certainly not standard how it gets to that point. The display, the toss, the end display. very sharp and visual . I wonder how a spectator would remember it?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 5, 2008 04:41PM)
Yes you are right Ian and I always joke with each other, but if you look at "the Will Rogers snap knot" at this forum you will see Laurie do the most amazing knot trick there is, and the best place to learn this knot is from My friend Dennis Loomis. Although Dennis's technique is different than Lauries they are both absolutely amazing.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 7, 2008 05:08PM)
Ian, I actually agree with you
the knot move is probably mis-named
it's just what I started calling it and it stuck.
(not sure if I'll go back and re-edit the manuscript
and video now though :0 )

Al, not sure why the Snap knot
is any closer to a mid air knot
as in that, the rope is not in the air
by itself at any time, where in mine it is.

Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 7, 2008 08:12PM)
Yeah, I didn't quite see the mid-air aspect of the snap as in "letting the rope go", but the knot action does happen on its own after the snap, as the rope centrifugally(?) rotates into a knot.
Your video knot got more impressive after viewing it several more times. As I had mentioned, the very first knot made was as much in the air as it could be, and it seemed to wane away from it by the last take. I would like to see the complete Hunter knot effect done on a youtube format, perhaps by one of your purchasers.
Years ago, rope effects were very inside and mostly confined to lecture material. Lately the revision and DVD merchandise has brought it out of the closet.
I still see George Sands influence in most effects.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 7, 2008 08:18PM)
The differance between the two knots is the snap knot makes a knot appear by snaping the rope with one hand. Yours is done be throwing the end of the rope through a loop with two hands, and making a knot appear in the middle. One is done with one hand, and the other is done with two hands. Your knot is no better than the one Ian did for a joke.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 7, 2008 09:54PM)
Al, I don't quite understand the intention of this post
any more than the one you just deleted?

I'm quite aware of a snap knot and the differences between
the two. I can perform both of them 19 times out of 20.

If you fail to see the usefulness of this little known
flourish, that can be performed with one or two hands,
then I'm sorry I ever brought it to your attention.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 8, 2008 06:55AM)
Yesterday was a stressful day for me, I love your knot, and I wish you the best.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 9, 2008 02:22PM)
No problems Al, I knew you weren't your cheery self


BTW, it's not "my knot" , I make no claims for originality
I'm just trying to let people know about it
as it only been mentioned briefly in print once before.
Message: Posted by: Roger Boucher (Jan 9, 2008 03:33PM)
Aren't you just trying to do a horizontal loop knot. you can do that same knot if you pull the rope up and then throw the loop the end goes through the loop and you have you knot. My dad does this with a weight at the end and calls it a cowboy yo-yo. Flip has it on one if his dvd's and does it similar to the way to this link that Magicians posted http://usmagic.biz/intheairknot.html. I am sure that by the time that you took that knot apart it was a figure 8 knot now if you just held the rope in you left or right hand and pulled it so the end came up then tossed the loop so that the end came through the loop you have you knot. one handed without having to grab it.

Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 17, 2008 06:49PM)
Do any of you rope wranglers know which issue of Genii (or perhaps Magic)
that had an extended write up of a technique for the snap knot.
I believe it was Al Schnieder(sp).

I have the magazine, but as it is mixed in with many hundreds of other magazines
have been unable to actually locate it yet.

Any clues - Year , Volume , Cover ??
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 17, 2008 10:28PM)
The link had a "." on the end of the html, the actual link is:

Not important, but accurate.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jan 18, 2008 09:23AM)
I bought Dennis Loomis's DVD and there are some fantastic effects on there, but I'd like to be able to snap the knot like Laurie does as opposed to Dennis's version (although I know he says his method is easier) - anyone know where I can get it?
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 18, 2008 09:30AM)
Laurie says she saw it in a cowboy rope trick book, which is truely amazing because Dennis goes into such details about propper technique. My hat goes off to Laurie because she did choose the road least traveled. Also Laurie uses a very stiff rope which does not make it any easier.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 18, 2008 03:23PM)

Probably the best source is Frank Dean's extensive and fascinating "Will Rodgers Rope Tricks" published by The Western Horseman. (probably Lauries source book as mentioned above).

There are 4 pages of what he describes as "flying knots" or "swinging knots".
With both shorter (hanging) and longer (laid out on the ground) ropes.

Rodgers did tend to use a rope that was weighted , either on purpose or just because it was formed into a honda.

The book is obtainable through juggling supply shops and probably amazon. well worth getting just for the historic photos etc..

Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jan 18, 2008 04:38PM)
Thanks for the tips
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Jan 18, 2008 06:03PM)
Try Bryan Dube at http://www.dube.com
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Jan 18, 2008 07:34PM)
Yes that's the one, $8 , enough stuff in that to keep you tied up for years

Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Jan 19, 2008 12:29PM)
Everything magical in the US is half the price of the same items in the UK. But even $16 would be a reasonable price.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jan 20, 2008 01:47AM)
Okay, I remember seeing Phil Wilmarth over 30 years ago, and I saw him tonight at a private lecture at bev Bergerons home.
I saw him do a one-handed in the air knot or two. He attributes this to Pavel. I bought his booklet on knots and it is an eye-opener.
I have always been a Wilmarth fan, and he did some amazing things.
The other treat was to meet Jack Kodell and Mary, guests at the lecture. We stayed til midnight listening to stories.
Never really knew much about Kodell, although he is sharp and alert, he walks with a cane and is in a bit of pain. Great stories tho.
I could not imagine that man doing an entire act on ice, or with parakeets.
Back to Wilmarth, his book documents and credits some of the moves we discuss on this section of the forum.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 13, 2008 06:36AM)
Well I've been practicing Dennis Loomis's snap knot and it's HARD. I managed three times in a row then had to do it about a 100 more times before I succeeded again. Any thoughts about the optimum length of rope?

I like this:

Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 13, 2008 08:00AM)
I have had success at (just below) chest high rope. Of course, you can cheat by placing a small weight in the tip of the rope which maximizes the spin of the rope. The other cheat, is to actually put a knot at the tip of the rope which also adds a bit of weight to the rope tip and acts as a "stop" to prevent the knot from falling out. Sometimes you actually have the knot and it travels down to the end of the rope tip and dissolves.
That belt knot video is an example of the advantage of a weighted tip. That belt buckle is a sneaky helper for doing it with a belt, and also a shorter piece.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 17, 2008 08:06AM)
Thanks, Ian. Slowly getting there. What I like best is when I can do it without using the forefinger but just vigorous wrist action.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 17, 2008 08:28AM)
The method without the forefinger is a little different dynamic. You actually allow the rope to hit where your finger would normally. The other tendancy is to want to move the wrist ina backwards "c" action but the actual best wrist action is an upide down checkmark with a short upwards movement to the right and a long follow thru from right to left shoulder to mid chest.
This sounds too scientific. Have fun.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 17, 2008 08:57AM)
A lot to think about there. What is a checkmark? I think we call it something different this side of the Atlantic.
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Mar 17, 2008 12:02PM)
On 2008-03-17 09:57, rjenkins wrote:
A lot to think about there. What is a checkmark? I think we call it something different this side of the Atlantic.

I think you call it a "tick mark," as in a "tick box."
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 17, 2008 01:22PM)
Of course. Thanks. Can't wait to get back to my rope to try it.
Message: Posted by: MrHyde (Mar 17, 2008 03:54PM)
Robert, remember Will Rodgers used a slightly weighted rope
so if that works for you, you're in good company.

Does anyone have access to the Genii archive index?

There was a terrific write up of a technique for a "snap" knot
some years back by (i believe it was) Al Schnieder (sp).

He had a series for a while and then this technique came out of the blue.
I have the magazine in storage, along with hundreds more
but not willing to start searching unless I have some idea
of the approx year

Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 17, 2008 03:55PM)
On 2008-03-17 09:57, rjenkins wrote:
A lot to think about there. What is a checkmark? I think we call it something different this side of the Atlantic.
Forget the check mark.. here's a quick video.
(the rope should be longer than the one I am using).
3 minutes to load broadband
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Mar 17, 2008 05:59PM)
Do you have Dennis's DVD? I can help you but I want to understand your technique first.

I can definitely help you.
1. lock your elbow.
2. twist your hand so your thumb is facing your body.
3. Make a question mark move.
4. Hold the rope so it touches the floor, choke up if necessary (choke up is a baseball term)
5. a twisted soft rope lends itself better to this move than a braided rope.
6. You do not need a knot or a weight at the end if your form is correct.

I usually get it ten out of ten times, and my finale is six knots one on top of the other, which really gets applause.

That belt used on youtube was too short for my taste.

I hope I haven't revealed too many of your secrets.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 17, 2008 06:16PM)
Ian - great video! I love it when you get that tangled up knot that is really a slip knot. I get that all the time.

Yes Al, I've got Dennis's DVD and I am following his method. Using cored cotton rope about 3/8" diameter. And usually with a knot in the end. I've tried it with drapery cord but it doesn't work well with the stuff I found.

Dennis talks about using the index finger to start with and then not needing to, but I don't think he explains how to do it without the index finger. Also Dennis is describing something close to Ian's "backwards C" rather than the "inverted check" he suggests

With concentration and good luck I am getting 40 per cent success rate - sometimes better. But then I get runs of being unable to do it at all.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Mar 17, 2008 06:51PM)
Dennis is a member of this forum, and helped my lots when I first started.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 17, 2008 07:35PM)
The number of "takes" was a joke. I think it's called self-deprecating humor.
I just like to use video clips to communicate so the language is not a barrier.
So, Al, when we meet some time, I will go one on one with you on knot snapping.
I used to do it with rainbow ropes and snap the knot on the color joints.

Okay, I took your advice on the wrist turning and wow what a difference!!
First shot out and right where I wanted it. Great advice Al. I concede to the snap-master.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Mar 18, 2008 04:14AM)
Ian - I understood about the self-deprecating humour. I think the British invented it (but we don't usually mean it).
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Mar 18, 2008 07:43AM)
A twisted 1/2" drapery cord is the best, but it is very hard to find one soft enough.

My routine is all self depricating humor, so learn the moves, and think of silly one liners.
Good Luck