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Topic: Polishing!
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Dec 31, 2007 02:52PM)

This is a bit old, but I thought I'd post it for your comments... be gentle! Ha!
Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Dec 31, 2007 05:46PM)
Nice handeling... It looks as though you do have both routines down...

I would suggest working on your shuttle and flying shuttle... In the coins thru tabel. At times your hands appaer a bit cramped after passing the coin...

In the three fry effect... Your passing hand seems to fidgit after passing the coins tp the next hand... I would try to find justification for those movements... or cover them in some manner...

Overall very nice.. Like you said just needs to be polished.
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 1, 2008 12:50AM)
Thanks for the input Shawn... I'm painfully aware of the shortcomings, but it's great to have objective feedback. And yes, that passing hand! I usually spit in the specs faces to cover all that ... LOL , but seriously, I'm working on that believe me!

All the best to you, thanks for taking the time to comment... I really appreciate it. Happy New Year to you, too!
Message: Posted by: Gary Yin (Jan 1, 2008 08:18AM)
I feel it's too rough or because of the music? Shuttle pass look like overconvincing and rough. Slow down abit. Let the coin toss motion register to the audience. that's for me.
Message: Posted by: magicblademan (Jan 1, 2008 08:42AM)
Hi rutabaga,I would agree with ShaunB " I would suggest working on your shuttle and flying shuttle... In the coins thru table. At times your hands appear a bit cramped after passing the coin" ...

I seemed to have this same problem when using dollar size coins...

I have gone back to using half dollars instead and my hands look a lot more natural now and the halfs work like a dream after practicing so long with dollars...seems halfs are my preferred hand size ,took me a long time going back and forth to figure this out...If you prefer the dollar size for visibility then just keep going ,i would not do the flying shuttle to many times it's like you are trying to hard to convince .

I like the reproduction of the coin going back up through the table the timing of the catch to the finger tips was just right..

All the best

Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Jan 1, 2008 11:39AM)
On 2008-01-01 01:50, rutabaga wrote:
Thanks for the input Shawn... I'm painfully aware of the shortcomings, but it's great to have objective feedback. And yes, that passing hand! I usually spit in the specs faces to cover all that ... LOL , but seriously, I'm working on that believe me!

All the best to you, thanks for taking the time to comment... I really appreciate it. Happy New Year to you, too!

Happy new year to you as well Rutabaga!!! Hope you had a good night....

Message: Posted by: Fingers (Jan 1, 2008 12:01PM)
I hate to pile on Rutabaga, but I pretty much agree with the above. However, I think "those problems" were minimal problems at best. I think both routines would look a whole lot better if you slowed the pace down, which I also think would help be a cure for most of the other above mentioned "minor" problems. All in all, I thought it looked as though they have great potential given there is more time for the spectators to digest everything that is going on.

I think if you worked with some patter installed into the routines it would help you to slow down the pace. Don't get me wrong it isn't too, too fast, but fast enough as though you are rushing through, because you have another engagement to meet.....
Message: Posted by: rannie (Jan 1, 2008 12:24PM)
I PMed you Iain!

Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 1, 2008 01:42PM)
Ha! Thanks everyone! I did rush through it all a bit, being too mindful of the file size and that tech stuff... no excuse I know. Also, I do use some patter normally. I really should refilm this complete at normal speed. Hopefully I've ironed out some of those "crampy" moments!
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 1, 2008 01:51PM)
Tried to take a look but having a problem with QuickTime...Is there a Windows media version?
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 1, 2008 09:29PM)
Here y'go!

Message: Posted by: Fingers (Jan 2, 2008 05:40AM)
I just want to add one more thing here. My comments and I believe the rest of the comments are on a very technical plane. I feel any normal spectator would have enjoyed the routines for what they are with no real problem. You can tell you have already done a lot of hard work and put together some really nice routines. We are just trying to point out a few weak spots to make the routines even better.....
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 2, 2008 08:05AM)
Hi Ray,

Thanks, I've taken it all that way. Every comment is very useful to me, and only helps me improve. I've actually changed a fair bit of how I present those effects. mainly involving eye contact with the spectators [of which there was none in the video!]... currently working on improving the shuttle....
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Jan 2, 2008 08:49AM)
Thanks rutabaga,

Not bad. A little fast and furious but it's clear to see that you're on the right tracks. I think slow it down it a little, keep perfecting the use of those sleights you're using and you'll reach your destination for sure. ;) I love that pop-up move by Sankey and you did it pretty well. Keep working and stay steady....It's coming! :)
Message: Posted by: Gary Yin (Jan 3, 2008 12:20AM)
Btw, the flying shuttle doesn't need to be close to the receiving hand. Angle it a 45 degree upward motion towards the receiving hand but not that close to show the coin toss.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Jan 3, 2008 12:58AM)
Overall I thought the technical handling was pretty good. If [i]I[/i] were directing you I would make these comments:

Following the first penetration you fail to adequately [b]show[/b] that the coin had passed through the table - never [i]never[/i] rush the display of a climax.

When you CP the coin for the second penetration I would personally be inclined to knock on the surface with my knuckles, commenting on the solid nature of the table - rather than rely on large movements of that hand to hide the smaller movement of executing the CP.

Also, I would reduce the excessive passing (and/or shuttling) back and forth between the hands to an absolute minimum; Show the coin in one hand then put in the other, and at that point they [i]get[/i] it: only one coin. As you've shown it here, I think it would be confusing and a bit tiresome for the spectator to try follow the [apparently] single coin around so much before (and between) actual "magic".

Remember that, even though successful execution of a particularly deceptive move is fun, overdoing it ["over-proving"] is usually [i]not[/i] entertaining, and will actually make your audience become suspicious. Consider how [i]you[/i] might react to a magician who said:[i] "I'm only using ONE coin. See? Just the ONE coin... that's all. No extra coins or anything like that, just the ONE coin you see right here".[/i] All the excessive shuttle work is actually just a non-verbal expression of the same over-the-top "proof".

RE: Three Fry - on the last coin, I think I would like a slower reveal. Try turning the right hand palm down (with the coin pinned at the base of the fingers by your thumb) and milking the coin "out of thin air" as it appears at the outstretched fingertips of your palm-down hand.

Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 3, 2008 10:45AM)
Thanks everybody.

TW, thanks. All that shuttling around was really for MY benefit to check for needed corrections etc. - I would never pass the coin around that much for a spectator. Interesting suggestion re the knocking on the table, I'll definitely check it out. And yes, sorry about all the rushing!
Message: Posted by: Pete McEwen (Jan 3, 2008 12:15PM)
I have the same things to say as everyone else, but I'll try throw in additional things as well. The shuttle passes technically were alright, but were lightning fast. Film yourself moving a coin back and forth, then film the shuttle passes. See how different they are? You haven't started anything so you can talk and casually move it back and forth. Then I also agree that for the first penetration you just kept going like nothing happened, go ahead and sell it. While you're at it why not show the left hand empty by brushing the top of the table with the back of your hand (you'll see why in a minute), Then bringing the coin out as a reveal. Then when you do the next one, pass it through the table (I would use the rapping of the knuckles on the table to CP the coin as previously suggested) and then use the same brushing to show the hand empty using the Kaps subtley (or whoever it's named after this week). Because just CP'ing the coin and leaving your hand in birdcage formation as David Williamson calls it is asking for attention. a good routine, could be great.

As for three fry. I don't believe that was three fry, three fry has a copper ending to it. That's what makes three fry a killer routine, because people might be able to follow the vanishes, but they can't comprehend the copper coins at the end. I think you went more for long gone silver, but you didn't use a wand. I think it's a great routine with a wand because the wand gives justification for tossing of coins back and forth and for a unnatural hand position while holding out 2-3 big silvers. Try using a wand or a sharpie or something with that routine and it'd clean it up a whole lot.

All in all it's great work, now it's down to the fine polishing. The big problem is a lot of people stop where you are. Please don't be like them. Strive to be better every time, not just get by.


And do me a favor, next time you film effects, try and film YOU, not just your hands. Sure it might make it harder to see, but it gives us a better idea of how you're performing it. My videos are hard to see the coins, but it's they way I wanted them filmed (minus the backlight) so I could see my movements as others would see them, not just my hands. PM me with any questions.
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 3, 2008 12:25PM)
Great points, Pete. Re the "close up" filming... it was really just intended as a review for myself to check handling etc. Next time I'll cut out the fancy music [added as an attempt to cover me muttering to myself!] and film a properly presented routine.

BTW, the second routine was taken from the T11 1-on-1 download "Three Fry" [I bought it to have a look at CK in action]... I realise it is different from the routine in TOOC.
Message: Posted by: feher (Jan 3, 2008 06:54PM)
You have a good start, I'm not a big fan of the flying shuttle but do do it once in awhile. I feel you are missing that floating feel of the coin going into the other hand one way to fix that is instead of just turning your hand palm up do that but also drop your hand a little, does'nt have to be much just alittle drop ...you'll be amazed on just doing that how much better it will look. The coin will look like you threw it from one hand to the other.
I just want to say that I feel that the flying shuttle is'nt a natural way of putting a coin in one hand to the other, that's why I stay away from it for the most part. Thanks for listening just wanted to get that off my chest....lol
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the second link could'nt view it before.
Message: Posted by: rutabaga (Jan 3, 2008 07:11PM)
Thanks Tim, I'll check out that adjustment. As I said, I was really filming to see how kosher the whole thing looks to a spectator... I kind of agree with you re the flying shuttle thing - but I also think it's a great convincer when done, ahem, sparingly!