(Close Window)
Topic: Quickest 4 card cull
Message: Posted by: Furniture (Jan 10, 2008 03:49PM)
Hi guys,

What is the quickest way you can use to cull 4 cards, lets say the 4 aces, to the top of the deck?

Please mention the name of the method where can be learned.

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Rimbaud (Jan 10, 2008 04:56PM)
Hofzinzer Cull, Card College (among others)
Cull De Stack, John Bannon, Dear Mr. Fantasy
Message: Posted by: Shodan (Jan 10, 2008 06:34PM)
If you're not specific about the 4 of a kind you can combine the probability cull (I learned it in Allan Ackerman's "Las Vegas Kardma") with a spread cull to control 4 of a kind pretty quickly.
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (Jan 10, 2008 06:43PM)
Kostya Kimlat's "roadrunner cull" is the fastest by far. Get his dvd, best source for the cull IMO
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Jan 10, 2008 07:02PM)
It is my eternal belief that any sleight must be selected in accordance with the context of the trick.

Spread Cull is not difficult to do very fast, but it is very difficult to justify spreading all cards.

If you are going to 'Spectator Cut the Aces', Culling the Aces just before doing the trick is ridiculous.

Maybe it is a good idea to do a trick in which spreading all cards seems natural. After that trick I would do the trick with culled Aces.

Maybe I will post some examples of such concept in my thread "Today's Finding".

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 10, 2008 07:28PM)
Kato-san is right - if you master a certain cull, the speed comes automatically. Especially if you only want to cull up to four cards only, the discussion on methods seems to be academic.

When we talk about a full deck separation, then some methods offer advantages. But again, we might be talking about max. 20-30 second difference.

It is more important to justify the action of going through all cards. I usually do it in the beginning - under the context of removing the jokers from the pack - or while searching for a certain card or cards.

Another criteria is the deceptiveness of the cull. Is it angle proof? Are the moves natural? and so on . . .

Andy
Message: Posted by: Furniture (Jan 11, 2008 06:10AM)
I heard a long time ago about Tamariz' favourite method, but maybe someone can she some light on this./

For instance if peek the top card and then go with the cull you just need to cull 3 cards to the top.

let me know your thoughts
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Jan 11, 2008 06:58AM)
May I ask what you are going to do after culling four of a kind to top?

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: Uli Weigel (Jan 11, 2008 09:09AM)
There's a cull in John Mendoza's "The Book of John", aptly called "Quick Cull". It's not only fast, it's also probably the easiest cull to get four of a kind to the top. The move is fairly deceptive, if you do it casually between tricks.
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Jan 11, 2008 11:19AM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-11 10:09, Uli Weigel wrote:
There's a cull in John Mendoza's "The Book of John", aptly called "Quick Cull". It's not only fast, it's also probably the easiest cull to get four of a kind to the top. The move is fairly deceptive, if you do it casually between tricks.
[/quote]

Danke Uli,

I have owned this boo for may a year but I have not looked at it in a long time. I will definitely revisit it!

Best,
Vlad

PS My German is beyond poor, so please forgive me if Danke is the wrong word for thank you. I am MUCH better at Italian :)
Message: Posted by: Ben Train (Jan 11, 2008 02:00PM)
Marlo's prayer cull was designed to cull four cards, and I use it and a hofzinser HEAVILY in my work.

I think though that one of the best and most underused culls is from Erdnase... I won't say which one though.

Ben
Message: Posted by: Furniture (Jan 14, 2008 07:34AM)
Uhmm.. I am quite interested in Marlo´s cull as I normally use Hofzinser.

Where can it be learned?
Message: Posted by: antonio123 (Jan 14, 2008 07:51AM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-14 08:34, Furniture wrote:
Uhmm.. I am quite interested in Marlo´s cull as I normally use Hofzinser.

Where can it be learned?
[/quote]

M.I.N.T 1
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Jan 14, 2008 01:59PM)
Harry Lorayne's 4 card cull is great and fast.
Message: Posted by: JMAC (Jan 15, 2008 08:17PM)
A good fast cull is practiced cull. The roadrunner dvd is outstanding.
jmac
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (Jan 16, 2008 10:53PM)
Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the roadrunner DVD?
Is it still being sold?

Thanks,
Tim
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Oct 4, 2018 09:59PM)
Cull Down- Doc Valles.
Apocalypse.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Oct 5, 2018 10:23AM)
That's it - it's the only cull I use - have been for decades, since publishing it in APOCALYPSE. I've taught it in a few of my books - quite often with different handlings to accomplish different results.
Message: Posted by: kaubell (Oct 5, 2018 09:16PM)
Faster (or should I say smoother) way to cull 4 cards is to cull random card at beginnin and after that cull the 4 cards.
Usually culling first card can have little bump stop motion, so I prefer to cull random card first to under the spread and use that to make other cards culling easy/faster to pick. Its not really special method but its worth trying out to speed up regular cull.
Message: Posted by: Glenn Morphew (Oct 6, 2018 03:36PM)
@Kaubell

I believe using a "slider" card is correctly attributed to David Solomon.
Message: Posted by: kShepher (Oct 6, 2018 07:24PM)
I'll vote for Roadrunner. Once you get it down it is lighting fast.
Message: Posted by: mysticmelville (Oct 8, 2018 05:28PM)
I agree with Kostya Kimlat's "roadrunner cull". Its also good practice in getting a good fluid rhythm going with the cards
Message: Posted by: Bobby Forbes (Oct 8, 2018 06:27PM)
After playing with this for a while, I now prefer Benjamin Earl's "casual open placement" for 4 cards or less from his Gambit #2. Fun to do as well. You should definitely check it out.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Oct 9, 2018 11:19AM)
As one of you said, we have to justify the move. Also, the cull must be deceptive. I saw Kimlat unknowingly exposing the cull on one of his videos.
This just reminds us to practice some in front of a mirror.
Message: Posted by: Threecard (Oct 17, 2018 01:07AM)
Check out the Hobbzinser Prayer Cull - Stephen Hobbs Technical Tool Box DVD set. There are a ton of other useful techniques throughout this whole series....
Message: Posted by: Threecard (Oct 17, 2018 01:32AM)
[quote]On Oct 4, 2018, magicfish wrote:
Cull Down- Doc Valles.
Apocalypse. [/quote]
Magicfish:
Do you have a reference for this? I have the all electronic PDF versions of Apocalypse from The Conjuring Arts Research Center but cannot find this via word search or in the indexes. Probably me overlooking it somehow. Appreciate the help.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Oct 17, 2018 02:02AM)
Apocalypse Vol. 11-15 (Vol. 12, No. 8)
Message: Posted by: Threecard (Oct 24, 2018 10:44PM)
[quote]On Oct 17, 2018, countrymaven wrote:
Apocalypse Vol. 11-15 (Vol. 12, No. 8) [/quote]
Countrymaven thank you for the reference, somehow I skipped over that volume....
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Feb 3, 2019 05:35AM)
Lewis Jones has a Cull called The Invisible Cull in Semi-Automatic Card Tricks vol.3. It’s pretty fast and as the name implies it’s invisible.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Feb 7, 2019 05:37PM)
I appreciate the kudos for the RR cull. I have previously found Kostya Kimlat a little short on explanations, but will give it a good try. I trust your judgement. Also the others, I also appreciate these ideas. thanks.
Message: Posted by: kShepher (Feb 7, 2019 05:54PM)
I think the Roadrunner download he produced goes into great depth. Highly recommend.
Message: Posted by: DrBrewhaha (Feb 7, 2019 11:26PM)
Anyone have a reference for Lorayne’s 4 card cull?
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Feb 7, 2019 11:42PM)
[quote]On Feb 7, 2019, DrBrewhaha wrote:
Anyone have a reference for Lorayne’s 4 card cull? [/quote]
It's not Lorayne's, it's Doc Valles'.
Apocalypse Vol.12 No.8
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 8, 2019 08:31AM)
It's something I use quite often. And, I've published a couple of variations of same in a couple of my books.
Message: Posted by: Jell92 (Feb 8, 2019 12:21PM)
WITHOUT a doubt the roadrunner cull. I don't believe it is Kostya Kimlats invention, but he does teach it on a dvd.
This is by far the quickest way to cull four of a kind. With a stopwatch no other method can compete.

Whenever I use it to cull four of a kind it is done in an off beat moment. Uses just a few seconds and no one notices or thinks more about it.

that's the method you want to use if you are going for speed.

Best
Andy
https://cardtrickmaster.com
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 8, 2019 12:43PM)
Doc Valles's Cull Down - which I taught in APOCALYPSE many decades ago - is as fast as you can do one spread through of the deck. So your oh-so-definite statements don't make too much sense. Do they? Do you even know Cull Down? Doubt it.

If you don't, how can you make those terribly strong DEFINITE statements? "With a stop watch no other method can compete"??? Wanna' bet? Nothing wrong with the roadrunner cull (I can't do it) but that's not the point. The point is that you're making such strong definite statements as if you KNOW ALL - and, I may be wrong, but I doubt that you KNOW ALL.
Message: Posted by: Jell92 (Feb 8, 2019 12:59PM)
Don't know know and have never heard about it, so I doubt it is as good. However if it can be done as fast as spreading through the cards in a rapid manner then awesome! Then it might be close to or even just as good as the roadrunner cull.

best
Andy,
https://cardtrickmaster.com
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Feb 8, 2019 02:00PM)
[quote]On Feb 8, 2019, Jell92 wrote:
Don't know know and have never heard about it, so I doubt it is as good. However if it can be done as fast as spreading through the cards in a rapid manner then awesome! Then it might be close to or even just as good as the roadrunner cull.

best
Andy,
https://cardtrickmaster.com [/quote]
Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it isn't good. Remember, thankfully, most magic isn't on the internet.
Message: Posted by: Jell92 (Feb 8, 2019 02:12PM)
Magicfish: That's correct. However, there is often a connection between what is popular in the card magic world and what no one has never heard about. The hofzinser cull is largely considered to be the best way to cull four cards. Can you elaborate on the method behind the cull you are talking about?

Best
https://cardtrickmaster.com
Message: Posted by: magicfish (Feb 8, 2019 07:25PM)
Jell92,

Many years ago I watched a tape of a New York Magic Symposium. This was a gathering of some of the best close-up artists on the planet. I had read HL's books but had never seen him perform. Harry was called upon by Max Maven? (Not sure) to do something.
Harry stood up with nothing. Somebody tossed him a random deck of cards from the audience. Without hesitating, one of the best performers with a deck of cards ever, went into action. While talking to the crowd, He quickly spread through the pack to remove any jokers, thoroughly shuffled the deck, and slapped down 4 packets of cards. On top of each packet was an ace. The crowd went wild and my life changed forever.
It was the most incredible thing I had ever seen.
I recognized the effect as Halo Aces from Rim Shots. But how on earth did he do it from a shuffled deck? I was perplexed for years. I thought about writing Mr. Lorayne a letter (pre internet) and asking him but I would never have done such a thing.
I kept reading. And reading. And reading. Several years passed. Then I picked up the latest HL book and there it was. He referred to it by name. Cull Down.
I closed the book and my eyes began darting back and forth. My heart rate quickened.
I scrambled for my Apocalypse volumes and there it was. Just sitting there. After all these years, this was how the great Harry Lorayne fried me and everyone in the room.
It took me over 10 years to discover this great sleight.
I'm giving it to you here.
I hope you like it.
Good luck sir.
Message: Posted by: lord_wallmotto (Feb 9, 2019 02:32PM)
Why would one want to cull the 4 cards as quickly as possible?

I use Marlos Prayer Cull just because it can be done in a very slow and relaxed manner with ZERO finger movement. You need to have a motivation to spread through the deck so I don't think speed matters. Just try to make it look like you are spreading through the cards.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 9, 2019 02:43PM)
How about this --- do whichever cull you're using EITHER slowly or quickly - according to how it "fits" the effect/routine you're going to do.

Of course, generally speaking - Why would one want to cull the 4 cards as quickly as possible? To avoid any suspicion (that you're doing something you shouldn't be doing). How obvious.

So basically, to each his own. A "slow and relaxed manner" I'm sure works for you - it sure as heck doesn't work for me. So, I do Cull Down as quickly as possible. But it can be done slowly if the magician WANTS to do it slowly.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Feb 12, 2019 05:33PM)
I like the Marlo Cull that Bannon teaches in his sheep to the slaughter routine. It’s very similar to cull down. I think sheep to the slaughter is one of the best most impressive poker dems you can do with a shuffled deck of cards. Great Cull too. Thanks Mr Marlo and Mr Bannon ü
Message: Posted by: LouVelvet (May 11, 2019 09:43PM)
From what I gathered Kimlat Kostya's Roadrunner Cull is the fastest cull out there, be it 4 cards or half of the deck. That being said, this particular cull do not addressed culling on a table. Does anyone know any sources that go over culling on a table? I am looking to use the spread cull during a gambling demonstrations.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 14, 2019 05:44PM)
Same as I've used for years/decades --- I'm handed a deck, as I ask "Is this a full deck?" I spread through the face-up deck as if checking that. And when done and deck is turned face down (and as I say "Yes, it is") the four aces are on top. Magicfish touched on it above.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (May 15, 2019 06:37PM)
Somewhere I taught to use Cull Down so that in one spread through of the deck you have the aces set to fall to you in a 3-hand poker deal. Perhaps someone can find that for me.
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (May 17, 2019 11:49AM)
Can someone give me a tip on this? I can't do the move.

One description says while spreading left to right, use the LH index finger to downjog the target cards; another says use the RH pinky.

Either way, when I downjog I break rhythm and the surrounding cards become misaligned to the point where I can't extract the downjogged four target cards.

Aside from sheer practice (a given), any suggestions? Thank you.
Message: Posted by: magicfish (May 17, 2019 02:27PM)
Where are you learning it from?
Message: Posted by: ASW (May 17, 2019 04:35PM)
Https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uFE7ok-v9N8
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (May 17, 2019 07:45PM)
I checked several of the book sources mentioned above--Al Sharpe, Apocalypse, Roger, Roberto.
Message: Posted by: supremefiction (May 17, 2019 07:57PM)
For the traditional under spread cull I have video on Roadrunner, David's and Cullology. But there the downjogging motion of the right hand does not manifest as it seems to here.