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Topic: A Difficult Experiment Never Attempted Before....
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 12, 2008 02:05PM)
I'd like your participation....

If you decide to participate, please post your results as this is something I have not attempted before and, as far as I know, has never been attempted before in an internet forum.

I want to put a Stephen Hawking statement to the test here... He says that "the laws of physics do not distinguish between the past and the future".

The laws of physics, my friends, are time symmetric.

This is an experiment across space and time... I do not know when you will try this with your own deck of cards (mere objects for this experiment), but regardless of that fact, I will attempt to influence a specific result.

I will be using the KING and the SEVEN (do not confuse this with my King/Seven experiment, this is very different).

Why the KING and the SEVEN?

The KING was often represented in a deck of playing cards by great leaders in our world’s history, and the SEVEN a symbol of spirituality and inner knowledge. Both cards exude incredible energy and are ideal for this experiment.

I have been in deep meditation for six hours, and I feel the time is right to begin the experiment.

What I'd like you to do, during a quiet moment, is to take any complete deck of cards, shuffle them while thinking of the KING and the SEVEN and what they mean... Whenever you "feel" is the right time, stop mixing the cards and spread them out on a table.

If my attempts to influence these results is successful, you will have a KING and SEVEN right next to each other in the deck. Sometimes I miss by one or two cards when performing this experiment in person, but the results will only be made known through your cooperation. Please post your results.

One more thing: If you have read cutting-edge books on Science and Quantum Physics, please do not interfere with the experiment by exposing the complexities of such. When the time is right ... everyone will know. Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Jan 12, 2008 03:11PM)
3 tries

1. Nearest K and 7 were separated by 5 cards (3 Ks were close together at one end of the deck).
2. Nearest K and 7 were separated by 3 cards.
3. Nearest K and 7 were separated by 2 cards AND the 7 was reversed!! (This one did surprise me, as I did not notice any cards being reversed in the overhand shuffling.)

John
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 12, 2008 03:37PM)
Thank you, Magnus... I'm getting warmed up....
Message: Posted by: spatrick (Jan 12, 2008 03:43PM)
After I completed my shuffling, a king was on the top and a seven was on the bottom.

S. Patrick
Message: Posted by: Brandon Johnson (Jan 12, 2008 04:02PM)
After I finished shuffling, the king of diamonds and the seven of spades were right next to each other.

-Brandon Johnson
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 12, 2008 04:03PM)
S., I would consider that a success, and I was nowhere near the cards, as far as you know anyway... Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jan 12, 2008 04:08PM)
1st try: KS next to the 7D and KH one card from 7S.
2nd: KS two from 7H.
3rd: 7C next to KD and 7D next to KC.

:thumbsup: :righton:
Message: Posted by: Dr Mage (Jan 12, 2008 04:08PM)
The King of Hearts and the Seven of Clubs were separated by one card (the Six of Diamonds).
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 12, 2008 05:06PM)
Crazy, man... I shuffled the deck, like you said, and found that the king of spades and the seven of spades had disappeared from the deck and ended up in my wallet!
Message: Posted by: tupawk (Jan 12, 2008 06:05PM)
KD and 7D right next to each other. All the others were very far apart.
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 12, 2008 07:51PM)
Any math champ around to calculate the odds?
Message: Posted by: Austin113 (Jan 12, 2008 08:21PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-12 20:51, Andy the cardician wrote:
Any math champ around to calculate the odds?
[/quote]

I don't know the odds, but this works with any two different values selected (not considering suits). I use this "trick" sometimes to test people's shuffling skills. I let 'em pick any two values, and then shuffle to their hearts content. 9 times out of 10, the two selected values wind up right next to each other OR with a card in between them. It's wild. Try it out.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Jan 12, 2008 08:28PM)
Tut tut. This isn't the place to discuss methods...that's Secret Sessions. Just enjoy Alexandre's presentation for now.

John
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Jan 12, 2008 08:51PM)
The math to calculate the precise odds of that happening would be extremely tedious. I'm a math major, and I don't even feel like going through all of that. :lol:

I can give you a rough estimate, though. If I don't account for a King showing up as the top or bottom card, and if I don't account for multiple Kings showing up next to each other, there is roughly a 46.9% chance of it happening. Upon this brief examination, I can't be sure how greatly that estimate might vary when you take into account the things that I left out.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jan 12, 2008 10:18PM)
Nearest king and 7 were 4 cards apart.
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 12, 2008 11:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-12 21:51, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
The math to calculate the precise odds of that happening would be extremely tedious. I'm a math major, and I don't even feel like going through all of that.

I can give you a rough estimate, though. If I don't account for a King showing up as the top or bottom card, and if I don't account for multiple Kings showing up next to each other, there is roughly a 46.9% chance of it happening. Upon this brief examination, I can't be sure how greatly that estimate might vary when you take into account the things that I left out.
[/quote]

It is an interesting problem.

After reading your answer, I started to look around in the net - guess what . . .
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52153.html

Apparently, the odds seem to be rather favorable of this to happen.

Thanks to the poster of this thread, my magical thinking has been enlarged. Thanks
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 13, 2008 12:22AM)
Andy, Brian, and Austin obviously missed my plea to "please not interfere with the experiment by exposing the complexities of such." I did mention that in time everyone would know. Anyway, no big deal.

Thanks for the support, Magnus and everyone else who participated.

Just wanted to demonstrate in a fun way that presentation is very important in our art...even on something this simple.

Now that you know how to do it, you may go ahead and use this presentation if you want, or come up with another. The sky is the limit on our imagination.
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Jan 13, 2008 07:05AM)
Apologies, Alexandre, I really enjoyed the experiment. It was actually because I enjoyed it so much and it worked so well many times in a row that my math brain became curious.
Message: Posted by: Nicholas (Jan 13, 2008 08:37AM)
Alexandre,

Thanks for that nice gem! These types of things provide me with tons of performance mileage. On a side note, I believe there is some research out there that indicates you can obtain an even higher hit rate by having the participant go into a deep meditative state for 6 hours before shuffling. (Not sure if I read that research somewhere or saw it in a vision.) At any rate, thanks again!

Nicholas
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 13, 2008 01:42PM)
Nicholas it is very possible that you may be right about the deep meditation. I will look into it.

Glad you enjoyed it.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 13, 2008 05:16PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-12 21:28, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Tut tut. This isn't the place to discuss methods...that's Secret Sessions. Just enjoy Alexandre's presentation for now.

John
[/quote]

Thank you John... Sheesh- for magicians they really have small regard for "the secret"

(still wondering how he got those cards into my wallet...)

G
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Jan 13, 2008 05:37PM)
Good demo, Alexandre. I tried it a few more times today, and got several pairings. Great presentation idea.
Message: Posted by: Andy the cardician (Jan 13, 2008 08:23PM)
Alexandre,
apologies if I missed your point - as you were refering to quantum and physics, I missed that out.

Andy
Message: Posted by: Ray_Mago (Jan 13, 2008 10:08PM)
1st try: 1 king and 1 seven next to each other
2nd try: 2 pairs of kings and sevens.
3rd try: 1 pair of kings and sevens
4th try: 1 king, then 1 seven, then another king. which results in a king sandwhich with seven on top.
5th try: another sandwhich, 1king 1 seven, then 1 king.

hmmm... the results are interesting.
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Jan 15, 2008 08:02AM)
Shuffled the deck and the king of spades and 7 of Hearts were next to each other also king of Clubs and 7 of Clubs were next to each other too! :)Nice one Alexandre!

Pete
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 15, 2008 09:15AM)
Peter, that worked out because I was deep in meditation at the time you attempted it.

Strong stuff! :)
Message: Posted by: Hearttau (Jan 15, 2008 11:32AM)
First try, King of Spades next to Seven of Spades and the King of Hearts next to the Seven of Hearts! I'll be using this one. ;)

Thanks ALEXANDRE, very interesting!


Wow! Tried again, shuffled 7 times. 5 out of seven resulted in a king and seven next to each other. I shuffle one handed, I wonder if shuffling technique affects the results?

Dave
Message: Posted by: dobber (Jan 15, 2008 07:12PM)
I wish John Scarne were alive for a consultation-he could figure the odds out pretty quickly.
I've read this somewhere in a magic book, but unfortunately can't remember which. Anyway, the odds of this occurring are actually pretty favorable.

This is almost the same as assembling a group of 30 or 35 people. Odds are that two of them share the same birthday, but odds are that someone shares *your* BD aren't so good. (This is covered in one of Scarne's books.)
Rob