(Close Window)
Topic: Genii Forum rule change - non-subscribers lose right to post but allowed to lurk
Message: Posted by: Mr. Muggle (Jan 16, 2008 03:56AM)
The following was posted on the Genii forum January 13, 2008...

[quote]I have come to an important decision today, after many months of deliberation.

Beginning next week, only subscribers to Genii, The Conjurors' Magazine, will be allowed to post on the Forum. Non-subscribers will continue to be able to lurk, but they will no longer be able to post.

We will continue to allow people to post under pseudonyms, however everyone's real name will have to be known to me (and held in the strictest confidence). This is so I will be able to check your name against the list of subscribers in our database.

The only way to do this is to wipe the current registration records clean. This means that all those who wish to post on the Forum, and are subscribers to Genii, will have to re-register. We are going to make this change in the coming week.

Unfortunately this also means that people who purchase Genii at magic shops won't be able to register. We have no reliable way to ensure that they purchase the magazine every month.

I do appreciate the efforts and contributions everyone has made to the Genii Forum over the past seven years, and I hope that all of you who are subscribers will remain with us as we enter this new era.

Thank you.
Richard Kaufman [/quote]

It will be interesting to see how the Genii forum changes in the next few months. I for one, wish Richard good luck with his decision - it will be interesting to see if the forum's content improves due to the change. Time will tell.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jan 16, 2008 04:03PM)
Years ago when the EG went from free to a subscription service the number of posts plummeted overnight but the overall quality of the postings increased exponentially and were made all the better from the decrease in the background noise.

Since I already subscribe to GENII the changeover won't effect me at all.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jan 16, 2008 08:11PM)
I wish the Café charged a fee and you had to supply your real name, etc. That would end the annoymous jokers throwing rocks from the shadows.
Message: Posted by: John Iacono (Jan 22, 2008 12:02AM)
Subscribe to Geni to use the forums, not me.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jan 22, 2008 12:49PM)
No John, subscribe to Genii AND use the forums.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 23, 2008 05:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-16 21:11, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
I wish the Café charged a fee and you had to supply your real name, etc. That would end the annoymous jokers throwing rocks from the shadows.
[/quote]

I do agree on the use of real names. It adds a level of accountability.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: edh (Jan 23, 2008 06:28PM)
What's to keep you from registering using a fake name?
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 23, 2008 06:47PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-23 19:28, edh wrote:
What's to keep you from registering using a fake name?
[/quote]

Richard still requires your real name to register even with a screen name. Read his list.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: msc455magic (Jan 23, 2008 07:27PM)
I too, feel that the quality will become better with Kaufman's decision. In fact, it is already starting to show.

Best,
Charles
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 24, 2008 02:53AM)
I buy Genii from Misdirections Magic Shop- less that 3 miles away from my house! Bummer about that as I liked looking at the forums too...

ah well...

cheers,
G
Message: Posted by: DerZauberer (Jan 24, 2008 11:40AM)
I never really used the Genii Forums. This forum and moderating another is enough for me at present. I don't want to spread myself too thin.

Since I already subscribe to Genii, I may check it out though.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 24, 2008 11:44AM)
Gaddy,

I think Richard will allow you to register anyway because you buy your copies at a dealer with counter sales of Genii.

Give him a shot at it! You may be surprised. I think he has experienced a learning curve by now. By denying the counter sales people to register he will be in direct competition with the magic dealers selling his magazine. They are also the advertisers! They may drop their ads. Dropping the ads is too high a price for Genii to pay. The ads are also a reason for reading the magazine. Thus, he could lose subscribers anyway. The effects of economics often improves decisions.

My bet is you're going to be allowed to register. However, it also destroys the integrity of the "grand plan". A basic rule of predicting decisions is "Follow the money".

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jan 24, 2008 03:13PM)
Seems to me this is going to cost RK money. Participation in the forum leads to more knowledge of the magazine and thus eventually more subscriptions. Limiting the forum to subscribers is going to eventually limit the number of people tied to the Genii brand. My prediction is that it will make the quality of the forum higher, but he'll get many fewer page views and new subscribers.

In any event I wish him the best.

Jack Shalom
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 24, 2008 06:41PM)
Jack,

I think that is a very sober approach. It is a free enterprise system. Richard Kaufman has the right to his decisions about Genii magazine and forum.

I also wish him the best.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Jan 24, 2008 10:23PM)
Anyone who purchases Genii monthly at a magic shop, and wishes to register on the Forum, has only to ask the owner of the magic shop to either call or e-mail me and give the person's name and e-mail address, then that person can register.

Very simple.

It's not just for subscribers, but for ALL readers of Genii.

Anyone, Genii reader or not, is free to lurk.
Message: Posted by: Mercury52 (Jan 24, 2008 10:47PM)
That's good to hear that monthly purchasers can get in on the action. I'm not a subscriber, but do buy every month from my local shop.

This forum and others take up most of my Internet forum time, so I don't really spend much, if any time over at Genii, but I may have to swing by and check it out.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Jan 26, 2008 09:50AM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-24 23:23, Richard Kaufman wrote:
Anyone, Genii reader or not, is free to lurk.
[/quote]How does an old member, and non-subscriber, gain access to the Forum to lurk? My old name and password will not work anymore.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Jan 26, 2008 10:26AM)
Randwill,
Lurking simply means that you can visit the site, browse the topics and read the various posts. You do not log in and you cannot post replies.
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jan 26, 2008 05:28PM)
What it means for me is: I think I may have to start spending more time there, rather than here. real names equal better discussions in my book.
Message: Posted by: ElliottB (Jan 26, 2008 06:54PM)
Aha!! I was wondering why I couldn't log in. Well, I'm a subscriber and even an occasional advertiser, so I hopefully I will be able to get back in soon.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Jan 26, 2008 07:23PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-26 19:54, ElliottB wrote:
Aha!! I was wondering why I couldn't log in. Well, I'm a subscriber and even an occasional advertiser, so I hopefully I will be able to get back in soon.
[/quote]

You simply need to re-register and you will, indeed, be back in.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Jan 26, 2008 07:58PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-26 11:26, Magiguy wrote:
Randwill,
Lurking simply means that you can visit the site, browse the topics and read the various posts. You do not log in and you cannot post replies.
[/quote]I've been around long enough to know what "lurking" means. What I didn't know was that I needed to re-resgister to do it. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 26, 2008 11:23PM)
At this point, the new forum claims to have 559 total members.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Wayne (Jan 28, 2008 03:20PM)
[quote]
On 2008-01-26 18:28, bsears wrote:
What it means for me is: I think I may have to start spending more time there, rather than here. real names equal better discussions in my book.
[/quote]

I agree completely with the use of real names... um... "bsears".

TW
Message: Posted by: Chris S (Jan 30, 2008 09:52PM)
I'm sure Richard has good reason for doing what he did. As for it costing him money, I wouldn't have thought it will make much difference.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 30, 2008 10:01PM)
I agree with Thomas Wayne (if that's his real name) :kermit:
Message: Posted by: Cain (Feb 1, 2008 02:48AM)
Well, I subscribe to Genii, and I do not think I even posted to the forum until recently. I just wonder why he even bothers allowing lurkers. So that it entices people to join? In order to keep people coming to the website? Why not just make it completely private and closed? It is, after all, a [i]magic[/i] forum.
Message: Posted by: cheesewrestler (Feb 1, 2008 06:33PM)
Not sure I see the benefit ... what if a nonsubscriber had something worthwhile to contribute to a thread? Now they won't be allowed to - who gains by that?


PLEASE NOTE:

I think Genii is well worth subscribing to, forum or no forum.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Feb 3, 2008 08:54PM)
Registrations appear to be increasing at about 50 a day. Now 872 is reported as forum registrations.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Feb 7, 2008 01:00PM)
I just sent an email to Susie Taylor at Barry's and asked her to forward it to Richard.
I would suggest other over-the-counter readers may want to do this with their dealers, rather than asking them to take time to call or write Richard. I'm sure these folks have more important things to do with their time than to drop what they are doing to call or email about this.
Don
Message: Posted by: reese (Feb 7, 2008 09:17PM)
I think requiring a subscription to be able to post is an attitude thing, not good business sense or good magic-friendly sense. It seems like RK took some past posts in a personal way and is trying to limit future (perceived) "attacks" because of that. It's personal, not professional.

One person's read on things...
Tim F.
Message: Posted by: meyegr (Feb 11, 2008 02:09PM)
I tried to renew my subscription a few years back and had such a hassle I finally gave up.
I do purchase when I can, but to have a dealer go through this hassle is, well a hassle.

I just deleted the link to Genie forum and all is well.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Feb 12, 2008 12:05AM)
Reese (Tim), I see no evidence to support your conclusion. RK is not a thin skinned individual. He is no stranger to vehement arguments and very public confrontations. Given his history and personality, I see no reason why he would shy away from any attack - perceived or otherwise.

He is, however, very concerned with quality. The Genii Forum takes no advertising and is not an income generator. Consequently, the choice to simplify its maintenance is a reasonable one. By restricting membership, there can be a higher signal to noise ratio; and by actually knowing who is posting, you can eliminate the trolls who come online solely to create problems. (For example, when the Café goes down, there is an influx of posts on the Genii forum by non-regular members. Sadly, RK and the moderators often have to go in and clean up after them as the level of discourse does not reach the standards typically found there.)

I find it interesting that the title of the thread refers to people loosing the "right" to post. When did posting on a privately run forum become a "right"?

Brad Henderson
Message: Posted by: cheesewrestler (Feb 12, 2008 01:34AM)
[quote]
<snip>
I find it interesting that the title of the thread refers to people loosing the "right" to post. When did posting on a privately run forum become a "right"?

Brad Henderson
[/quote]

I just took it as meaning "can't post any more". "Lose the right to ..." is probably better, because "Can't ..." could mean there's just some sort of internet/computer malfunction taking place.

"Lose permission to post" or "lose the privilege of posting" would convey the meaning, but they sound kind of snotty, which is not what I feel RK is trying to be.

I guess it must just be a maintenance issue. I have no idea how much time RK had to spend deleting posts from spammers etc, but restricting the right to post will certainly cut down on it.

(And as I said before, Genii is worth it forum or no forum.)
Message: Posted by: meyegr (Feb 13, 2008 01:14PM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-12 01:05, truthteller wrote:
Reese (Tim), I see no evidence to support your conclusion. RK is not a thin skinned individual. He is no stranger to vehement arguments and very public confrontations. Given his history and personality, I see no reason why he would shy away from any attack - perceived or otherwise.

He is, however, very concerned with quality. The Genii Forum takes no advertising and is not an income generator. Consequently, the choice to simplify its maintenance is a reasonable one. By restricting membership, there can be a higher signal to noise ratio; and by actually knowing who is posting, you can eliminate the trolls who come online solely to create problems. (For example, when the Café goes down, there is an influx of posts on the Genii forum by non-regular members. Sadly, RK and the moderators often have to go in and clean up after them as the level of discourse does not reach the standards typically found there.)

I find it interesting that the title of the thread refers to people loosing the "right" to post. When did posting on a privately run forum become a "right"?

Brad Henderson
[/quote]

Welcome to the 21st century - we have to have our 'rights' guaranteed for EVERYTHING :rotf:
Message: Posted by: reese (Feb 13, 2008 07:09PM)
If you take the janitorial/maintenance viewpoint into consideration, then it makes good business sense.

I just have the (very) subjective feeling that RK threw the baby out with the bathwater with this change.

The change doesn't effect me personally so I shoulda probably shut my yap to begin with.

Oh well... that's what happens when you post on a forum while driving, it's reckless to post & drive at the same time.

Tim
Message: Posted by: silverking (Feb 14, 2008 11:05AM)
[quote]
I just have the (very) subjective feeling that RK threw the baby out with the bathwater with this change.
Tim
[/quote]
Everybody who is still on the Genii forum is happy with the current state of the forum.....the number of posts are still about where they used to be....and the quality of the posts is excellent.

Most folks use their given names, and even if they don't they are usually known to the rest of the forum.
EVERYBODY is known to the moderators.

There have been no flames since the change, and posters remain civil even when disagreeing wholeheartedly.

Really a pleasant place to visit. And no baby got thrown out with any bathwater.

The only folks who seem to have a problem with what happened are those that don't subscribe to Genii, and aren't on the forum.

For those who ARE on the forum, all is well.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Mar 13, 2008 03:29AM)
Update: Mr. Kaufman has decided he liked the increased activity of having more than just subscribers on his forum. The registration restriction has been lifted.
Message: Posted by: reese (Mar 14, 2008 10:11AM)
[quote]
On 2008-02-14 12:05, silverking wrote:


Everybody who is still on the Genii forum is happy with the current state of the forum.....the number of posts are still about where they used to be....and the quality of the posts is excellent.
[/quote]

It looks like "everybody" wasn't really everybody... Fr'instance Mr. Kaufman wasn't ultimately happy with the the state of the forum. Gotta hand it to him; it's a big man that can admit things aren't working and then immediately make changes for the better.
Tim
Message: Posted by: Richard Kaufman (Mar 23, 2008 04:33PM)
I think more active topics makes for a more lively board. The Genii Forum is a completely different animal than the Magic Café--there are so many posts here that it would be impossible for myself and two moderators to keep track of them all.
The Magic Café is also not associated with a magazine, and it accepts a huge amount of advertising. It is, in other words, a money-making venture. The Genii Forum is not, though we will have some limited advertising in the near future just to help pay for some of the software upgrades and so on.