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Topic: Bicycle cards aginst Tally-ho's (my opinion)
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Mar 3, 2003 09:01PM)
Ok here's the deal: My bikes last one week for one deck. I bought a Tally-ho deck at Ken Sand's magic shop a while ago (about a month) and I still am using them. For anybody who has been thinking of getting some, GET THEM! Tally-ho's are the BEST cards I have ever played with! They faro better too! And I like the back (original circle back) better than bicycles!...Do they sell tally-ho's in 12 packs? If not where can I find them real cheap?


Thanks in advance,
MAx
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Mar 3, 2003 09:38PM)
I used to use Tally Ho Circles, but opted for Bicycles as most people were more familiar with them. As to quality, when I'm working one doesn't necessarily outlast the other. As for purchasing them in larger amounts, Haines House of Cards will sell them to you.

Steven
Message: Posted by: Ron Giesecke (Mar 3, 2003 09:51PM)
Tally-Ho's are practically unknown in my area, but I agree they are better overall.

I just use bicycles because I abuse cards, and am too incomprehensibly cheap to put forth.
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Mar 3, 2003 09:53PM)
May I ask the URL for Haines House of Cards? Also I forgot to mention the original circle back Tally-Ho cards are good for doing "pirouette"


-Max
Message: Posted by: Otis Day (Mar 3, 2003 10:43PM)
Go to Google and do a search for Haines House of Cards. It will come right up for you. That's what I do anytime I want info on something...go to Google. Good luck.
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Mar 4, 2003 12:39AM)
Who is it that started this silly stuff about "people recognize Bicycles, other brands look suspicious", anyway? That's pure hokum. Cards are cards are cards. If you look in most houses, I'd wager that the majority of decks of cards in houses not containing a magician are actually souvenir or advertising cards of some kind, or cards with pictures of cute little kittens on them.

The only people I've ever met who think T-Hs, or any other deck, looked "suspicious" were other magicians.

I honestly think that the "non-Bikes look suspicious" argument has even less merit than the "which color is best?" debate (at least the latter has some psychological background to go with it).

--A
Message: Posted by: Chris A. (Mar 4, 2003 12:52AM)
I do see some logic in the argument that red back cards blend a little better when you palm them as opposed to blue cards.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 4, 2003 01:02AM)
we could pool our observations about this...

In the four households I visit there are just bridge cards for the family and...

In the one with a card player there are two OLD decks, 1 bikes and 1 bees.

What have your found?

-jon

PS, for magic, I have my TallyHo Blue Back Circle design cards and some unopened decks and gaffs that are 20+ years old now.
Message: Posted by: Elijahhenry (Mar 4, 2003 01:21AM)
Ah Hell!!!

I use Steamboats!!!

E. Henry :rotf:
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Mar 4, 2003 01:27AM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 01:39, Andy Leviss wrote:
Who is it that started this silly stuff about "people recognize Bicycles, other brands look suspicious", anyway? That's pure hokum. Cards are cards are cards. If you look in most houses, I'd wager that the majority of decks of cards in houses not containing a magician are actually souvenir or advertising cards of some kind, or cards with pictures of cute little kittens on them.

The only people I've ever met who think T-Hs, or any other deck, looked "suspicious" were other magicians.

I honestly think that the "non-Bikes look suspicious" argument has even less merit than the "which color is best?" debate (at least the latter has some psychological background to go with it).

--A
[/quote]


Exactly. Even if people think they are "suspicious" what does it matter? They can look at the cards if they want. I think whats funnier is that I have never seen a Tally-ho gaff or gimmick :hmm:


-Max
Message: Posted by: Jem (Mar 4, 2003 01:52AM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-03 22:01, gtxby33 wrote:
Ok here's the deal: My bikes last one week for one deck. I bought a Tally-ho deck at Ken Sand's magic shop a while ago (about a month) and I still am using them. For anybody who has been thinking of getting some, GET THEM! Tally-ho's are the BEST cards I have ever played with! They faro better too! And I like the back (original circle back) better than bicycles!...Do they sell tally-ho's in 12 packs? If not where can I find them real cheap?


Thanks in advance,
MAx
[/quote]

I agree with you, Max. I have found, in my own personal experience, that Tally Ho's last a little longer than Bikes. And yup, I think they indeed Faro slightly better too. Its just a pity that Tally Ho's are a bit harder to come by than Bikes.

Cheers! :)
Message: Posted by: MagicT (Mar 4, 2003 09:44AM)
One thing about Tally Ho's that no one has mentioned yet is that they have a Linoid finish them, which makes it easier to Faro and also allows them to last a little longer. They are also thicker than Bikes. I personally enjoy using Tally Ho, yet I have no problem using a Bicycle deck.

Flip,
Regarding your comment about red backs blending in better when palming than do blue back cards, how about we come up with Flesh Colored Bicycle Back or Tally Ho Back cards. This should help the cards blend in a little more. Just a thought. LOL


Best,
Trini
Message: Posted by: jcards01 (Mar 4, 2003 10:01AM)
http://www.haineshoc.com or
http://www.kardwell.com

Both places sell the cards.

I forget the Canadian address but the Canadian branch of US Playing Cards, puts out bicycle cards that are of the old feel. The ones put out in the US have changed over the years.

Jim Molinari
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Mar 4, 2003 10:12AM)
Ech... They still cost soooooo much money... I'm used to buying 12 bicycle packs for $13.49...


-MAx :arg:
Message: Posted by: Ozer4 (Mar 4, 2003 10:15AM)
I like bikes, but haven't used tally-hos so i can't say for certain which I like better. :pepper:
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Mar 4, 2003 12:34PM)
How do Hoyle and Bee compare? Bee is usually recomended for 3 card montes.
Message: Posted by: DavyBoy (Mar 4, 2003 02:14PM)
To take Andy L's point further,if you asked anyone (non-magician) in England to name a manufacturer of cards the response would be ehh mm,got me there.
Bikes,Bees,Tally's etc are just unknown here.People are probably more suspicious here about them because of the American origin (if they see USPPC on the box).
The main make of cards here is from a company called Waddington's,there are ok but only in bridge size and are thicker than Bikes.
Personally I flit between Bikes or Bees depending on the routine.

Cheers,
DavyBoy
:bluebikes:
Message: Posted by: walterh (Mar 4, 2003 03:51PM)
I have found bikes to be the most inconsistantly manufactured cards made. Many times there are differences in the thickness of the cards from deck to deck, and most offensively... many times the deck has not been cut straight!!! The borders and faces are cut off center. I have rarely seen this with Tally-Ho. If all card tricks sold gave you a choice between Bike or Tally-HO, I would buy T-Ho hands down. They just plain out have a better feel.

Unfortunatley, most all tricks, gimmicks and gaffs are made in bike. This was not the case 20 or so years ago when many if the same tricks available today were made in T-Ho. For some reason everything changed to bike.

I miss the old days!
Message: Posted by: Jack Bryce (Mar 4, 2003 04:19PM)
I used to use T-Ho cards but changed when most if not all of the gimmicks and joke cards available (picture of my kids, pride and joy etc etc) were printed in Bike stock. Not that I use these much but do on odd occasions!

I also used to use Fox Lake or Aviator cards at one time (showing my age now) and most of the gimmicks were available for these cards too but that stopped about the same time as everything seemed to move to Bike stock.

I've used Bikes so long I wouldn't go back now! I am sure Bikes used to be in the same finish as T-Ho cards and then they changed but maybe my senile dementia is setting in and my memory is failing, so someone will probably correct me on this!

Flip: I always thought that palming a card was supposed to be invisible to the lay public so why does it matter what back design or colour a palmed card is? If anyone can see my palm I would think I need more practice! :)
Message: Posted by: walterh (Mar 4, 2003 04:35PM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 17:19, Jack Bryce wrote:
I used to use T-Ho cards but changed when most if not all of the gimmicks and joke cards available (picture of my kids, pride and joy etc etc) were printed in Bike stock. Not that I use these much but do on odd occasions!

I also used to use Fox Lake or Aviator cards at one time (showing my age now) and most of the gimmicks were available for these cards too but that stopped about the same time as everything seemed to move to Bike stock.

I've used Bikes so long I wouldn't go back now! I am sure Bikes used to be in the same finish as T-Ho cards and then they changed but maybe my senile dementia is setting in and my memory is failing, so someone will probably correct me on this!

Flip: I always thought that palming a card was supposed to be invisible to the lay public so why does it matter what back design or colour a palmed card is? If anyone can see my palm I would think I need more practice! :)

[/quote]

I do believe your are right (and not going senile) regarding the finish on bikes being similar, if not the same as T-Ho years ago.
Message: Posted by: Jack Bryce (Mar 4, 2003 04:48PM)
Thanks Walterh, I thought I could remember a time when Bikes were just as good as T-Ho cards! I will still use Bikes as I said I've used them too long now to change! :)
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Mar 4, 2003 07:53PM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 01:39, Andy Leviss wrote:
Who is it that started this silly stuff about "people recognize Bicycles, other brands look suspicious", anyway? That's pure hokum. Cards are cards are cards. If you look in most houses, I'd wager that the majority of decks of cards in houses not containing a magician are actually souvenir or advertising cards of some kind, or cards with pictures of cute little kittens on them.

The only people I've ever met who think T-Hs, or any other deck, looked "suspicious" were other magicians.

I honestly think that the "non-Bikes look suspicious" argument has even less merit than the "which color is best?" debate (at least the latter has some psychological background to go with it).

--A
[/quote]

Am I missing something? Who ever said that Tally Ho's were suspicious? Nobody in this thread. What was said, is that people are more familiar with bicyles.
Message: Posted by: samthemagical (Mar 4, 2003 07:56PM)
I personnaly collect decks. Makes patter a lot easier if you HAVE the 'cute ikkle kittens' on the back, or the peacocks, or the airplanes, or the...
I have never found anyone to be suspicious if I handle the cards as if the were what I always use...and the ARE what I always use!
Message: Posted by: gtxby33 (Mar 5, 2003 07:06PM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 20:53, Steven Steele wrote:
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 01:39, Andy Leviss wrote:
Who is it that started this silly stuff about "people recognize Bicycles, other brands look suspicious", anyway? That's pure hokum. Cards are cards are cards. If you look in most houses, I'd wager that the majority of decks of cards in houses not containing a magician are actually souvenir or advertising cards of some kind, or cards with pictures of cute little kittens on them.

The only people I've ever met who think T-Hs, or any other deck, looked "suspicious" were other magicians.

I honestly think that the "non-Bikes look suspicious" argument has even less merit than the "which color is best?" debate (at least the latter has some psychological background to go with it).

--A
[/quote]

Am I missing something? Who ever said that Tally Ho's were suspicious? Nobody in this thread. What was said, is that people are more familiar with bicyles.
[/quote]

It's not specifically in this thread, but in TONS of others....

-Max

[quote]
On 2003-03-04 17:48, Jack Bryce wrote:
I will still use Bikes as I said I've used them too long now to change! :)
[/quote]

It's never too late to change! :bg:
Message: Posted by: debaser (Mar 6, 2003 12:12AM)
HANDS DOWN TALLY-HOS

First of all they feel much better out of the box (less time to break in) When i got back into magic the first thing i did was had Niel make me a bunch of useful gaffs in tally-ho.

They are also a better design (both fan and circle backs.

However I have had people ask "What kind of cards are those" People who play cards alot atleast in the midwest are much more familiar with Bicycle decks. But I wouldnt give up my tally hos for anything.

Matt
Message: Posted by: dgcuff (Apr 5, 2004 02:33PM)
[quote]
I forget the Canadian address but the Canadian branch of US Playing Cards
[/quote]

International Playing Card Co. Ltd.
140 Renfrew Drive, Unit 204
Markham, Ontario
L3R 6B3

1-800-265-5674
905-477-2273
Message: Posted by: T. Joseph O'Malley (Apr 5, 2004 04:37PM)
Jim,

In a post above, you mentioned some Canada/US differences in bike's finishes.

What do you think the difference is in the finish between the US vs Canadian Bicycle cards? The box looks different, that much I know, as well as the Jokers. But I haven't been able to compare finishes...

And if there is a difference, perhaps could this be exploited in the same way that differences between the 2 finishes of Bee brand cards were once used? (i know they don't make the Bee cards in the 2 finishes anymore)...
Message: Posted by: ziatro (Apr 5, 2004 05:30PM)
Coming from England the first deck I used was Waddingtons which has been previously explained as pretty much the only "over the counter" cards you can purchase here. The quality for card handling is not great. When I started to get into magic I was told to use Bikes as these were the best available. They are much better quality than Waddingtons, but I used to find that they have a tendency to warp slightly under adverse conditions. When I discovered Tally ho's I had no such trouble. They are slightly stiffer than bikes, definitly faro better and have a much more solid feel. The only disadvantage with them is that most fekes and packet tricks are printed on Bike stock. But for me Tally Ho's beat Bikes into a cocked hat.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 8, 2004 03:46AM)
This is a very interesting thread for a number of reasons. Several years ago when I was manufacturing a couple of card items, these same statements were being bandied about. I contacted USPCCo directly to purchase cards. According to them, the paper and the finish used on Tally-Ho's were exactly the same paper used on Bikes.

They did specify that they have two finishes. One is called "linen," "linoid," or "air-cushion." The other is usually called "ivoroid" or "smooth." Tally-Ho and Bicycle are generally avaliable only in the linen or air-cushion finish. The air cushion finish that was available during the 1950's was different, but that changed sometime about 1970 or so, when the company did some streamlining of their production techniques.

To be sure, I have felt the same differences, myself. They show up even more graphically with some of the less well known USPCCo cards, such as 500. Maybe it's because these cards are manufactured in smaller quantities. Maybe the Tally-Ho's (which are primarily for the New York Market) sit for a longer time in the warehouse and undergo some mysterious transformation. ;)

Maybe the quality control isn't as strict when they are running bikes. I notice the greatest difference between "bargain" bikes that you find on sale at grocery stores for relatively low prices and bikes that you find at the better retail outlets. It seems that the bikes I find on sale may not have the smoother edges that you find on the ones that have had some time taken with them ... and the Tally Ho's.

Could be that the cheaper cards come at the end of the run.

Who knows? It all adds to the mystique and legends of the playing cards.
Message: Posted by: Mike Walton (Apr 8, 2004 05:56AM)
I recently contacted US Playing card about a large custom card order and the sales rep did note that the finish on Tally-Hos was different from that on a Bike deck.

Simply put, the Tally Ho finish is smoother. I'm not sure about the technical aspects that lead to the difference in quality between the two decks, but the finish is indeed different.

To answer the question initially posed on this post, I love the Tally-Ho navy fan back deck and Tally-Ho Ace of Spades designs best out of all decks.

Here's an interesting factoid, the Tally-Ho navy fan deck was used twice on an episode of the HBO series The Sopranos, but I understand Tally-Hos to be more prevalent in the greater NY and NJ area which would be consistent with the show. For reference, AJ moved in with Tony on this episode.
Message: Posted by: Liam Jones (Apr 8, 2004 07:43AM)
For those interested, run a search on cards and you will find lots of information.
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Apr 8, 2004 12:51PM)
I have heard such good things about Tally's....but honestly, when I see anything besides Bikes, or Bees, or some other major brand, I think GAFF.
Message: Posted by: thk5353 (Apr 8, 2004 02:16PM)
Honestly I've had no one question the Tally-Ho's when I perform an effect to people. Maybe the adults have a stereotype, but I usually perform for my friends at school. Most kids can't even distinguish between a bicycle and an aviator, they play around with cheap bridge-sized plastic cards from Disney World. Or maybe they just don't care if the cards are gaffed or not.
Message: Posted by: RiffClown (Apr 9, 2004 03:47AM)
I personally feel the differences are purely cosmetic. I have some Tally's (Circle and Fan) as well as League, Regular Bikes, Tacticals, Bee and a few others. After about an hour of use, they all feel pretty much the same to me. That's only my opinion. Your experience may vary.
Message: Posted by: niva (Apr 9, 2004 05:47AM)
[quote]
On 2003-03-04 01:39, Andy Leviss wrote:
Who is it that started this silly stuff about "people recognize Bicycles, other brands look suspicious", anyway? That's pure hokum. Cards are cards are cards. If you look in most houses, I'd wager that the majority of decks of cards in houses not containing a magician are actually souvenir or advertising cards of some kind, or cards with pictures of cute little kittens on them.

The only people I've ever met who think T-Hs, or any other deck, looked "suspicious" were other magicians.

I honestly think that the "non-Bikes look suspicious" argument has even less merit than the "which color is best?" debate (at least the latter has some psychological background to go with it).

--A
[/quote]

I will have to completely disagree with you Andy. At least here in Malta it's not that way. Bicycle cards are very very rarely seen. I think it must be only magicians who are using them. After some effects with a normal deck, they question whether it is gimmicked. Then I explain that I use these cards because they last much longer than others available here. And if I can I usually let them inspect the deck.

[quote]
On 2004-04-08 13:51, Astinus wrote:
I have heard such good things about Tally's....but honestly, when I see anything besides Bikes, or Bees, or some other major brand, I think GAFF.


[/quote]

It would have to be the other way, because as far as I know one rarely finds gaffs made for cards other than Bikes.

That is how the audience thinks.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Apr 9, 2004 06:55AM)
I've had a couple of bicycle decks for a WHILE and have not gotten them broken in to where I'm happy with them.

I'll stick with the Tally Ho circle back design cards.

When [i]Gaffed to the Hilt[/i] came out, I got a special set made.

My wildcard uses Tally Ho cards (well the advertising cards really)

For whatever reason [b][i]I prefer[/i][/b] those cards.

You may find a brand and design that suits you.
Message: Posted by: luismagic (Apr 9, 2004 06:42PM)
Tally Hos are a better card than Bikes, in terms of thickness, faro, and they last, because of the finish. Bees, according to USPC, are printed on the best stock of any of their cards. But are thinner.

As far as a spectator being supisious of the cards in play–if you use Bikes and perform an amazing card trick—spectators will first assume your using trick cards. Even if they’re Bikes. That’s the specctators first out.
Message: Posted by: niva (Apr 10, 2004 02:21AM)
That's also true.
Message: Posted by: craigm (Apr 10, 2004 07:14AM)
A lot of people over here in England seem to get suspicious when I pull a pack of bikes out of my pocket - people aren't used to them, and are only really familiar with Waddingtons bridge cards (as someone said earlier in the thread.) Personally I'd never even heard of Tally Hos until reading this thread, but I think bikes are splendid. They just tend to 'feel' better than other cards, like Bees. Then again it's probably just because I'm used to bikes :)
Message: Posted by: Logan Five (Apr 10, 2004 10:29AM)
I think the only difference between Bikes & Tally Ho's are the price.
Message: Posted by: DADE (Apr 10, 2004 10:38AM)
For me it has got to be red bikes, they feel better in the hands, I tried a pack of (blue) circle "Tally Ho's" a while back and felt physically sick,it must be something psychological....

DADE
Message: Posted by: Randy Sager (Apr 10, 2004 01:22PM)
I love Tallys. But I use bikes the most.

As for the discussion of which the non magicians suspect the most? it's a toss up I would say. It doesn't matter what design the backs have some people are going to think that you are using a gaff no matter what back they see. It doesn't matter if they are familar with the brand of cards or not.
Message: Posted by: disappointing hack (Apr 10, 2004 02:00PM)
I only ever use tally's. I find that the quality control is much more surefire than with bikes. the back design (circle) is charming and elegant and they are a pleasure to handle. with regards to the 'non bikes look suspicious' argument, I find it rather odd. if you are really that worried about people thinking that your splendid looking deck of aladdin's is a gaff, then simply hand it out to be shuffled, let them find out for themselves that the cards are kosher. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that an audience will immediatly think that you're a phoney that uses dodgy cards simply because they're not the ones that they saw Blaine using on tv........

also Texan 45's are marvellous

and Arcco's

and Eagle backed bikes
Message: Posted by: Stephen Long (Apr 11, 2004 05:18AM)
Eagle backs?
I don't believe I've ever heard of eagle-backed bikes.
They sound most intriguing...
Message: Posted by: RiffClown (Apr 11, 2004 06:03AM)
Eagle Backs are available in the Bicycle Spades sets.
for a picture check [url=http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb/cards/sp.html] here.[/url]
Message: Posted by: Tarbell Magic (Apr 11, 2004 06:13AM)
I’m a recent convert to Tally-Ho, but am still getting used to the thicker stock. I like Aviator too, and keep meaning to try Bee’s.

Here in England, all U.S. Playing Card Co cards bring forth comments simply because they are unknown. Not that that is a bad thing.

Don’t forget; if you use Tally-Ho’s, to check out the generic trick, ‘OP-TRICK’ (see Fulves’ Chronicles, pg 1109) … wherein the circle back of a Tally-Ho card becomes detached from the rest of the card.

You cannot do that with a Bike!
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Apr 11, 2004 07:39AM)
Rob, thanks for the link to the Eagle Backs. Note that as shown in the image below, the Joker has the words "Big Joker" printed on it. Seems like that would be the [b]perfect[/b] card to use for the "Elongated Lady" effect because you could point out the words and then stretch the card to make it a really big Joker. Gary Plants makes a fantastic version of the effect, which he calls "Longer and Leaner," and I bet he'd make it with this Joker and two other Eagle Back cards if you supplied them...hmmm, looks like I know what I'll be buying next. :baby:

Larry D.

[url=http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb/cards/sp_jk.jpg]Click here to view image[/url]
Message: Posted by: sly (Apr 11, 2004 11:40PM)
I would also like to add my praises for Tally Hos. I find them to spread, fan, count, spring and faro more smoothly and reliably than Bikes. If I am starting a formal show with a sealed deck that I NEED to be able to faro and handle right away, I will ALWAYS use Tally Hos. And while they do last longer (which is good for practicing I suppose), this is a non-issue for me as I tend to give away my cards at the end of a performance.
Message: Posted by: Joseph Martin (Apr 12, 2004 12:30AM)
For people where I live, a Bicycle deck looks like a professional deck, not a gaffed deck.
Message: Posted by: Roy J Hopwood (Apr 12, 2004 10:05AM)
Even though I use bikes - simply because they are easier to get hold of and are the "industry standard" . Personally I think that Tally-Ho's are the very best.

About them being all the same!! Try this simple test. between Tally-Ho and Aristrocat (Both made the the US Playing Card Company)have some hand you either deck behind your back then compare it with the next deck also behind your back - that is sight unseen. YOU WILL PICK THE DIFFERENCE trust me.

They feel different, they sound diferrent, they are diiferent.

The difference between Bikes and Tally Ho are not as great but they are there.

Another think about Tally Ho's is that they are a one way deck.

Don't believe me then check the rosettes(?)top and bottom notine the difference? Look at the gap at12 o'clock, as on the card and not by the clock.
Message: Posted by: dgcuff (Apr 22, 2004 07:17AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-08 04:46, Bill Palmer wrote:

It seems that the bikes I find on sale may not have the smoother edges that you find on the ones that have had some time taken with them ... and the Tally Ho's.
[/quote]

Bill, thanks for confirming this. I bought an "emergency" deck at a drug store for a bargain price, and the edges were quite rough. (These were bought up here in Canada, and were therefore "from" the International Playing Card Company.)
Message: Posted by: Jacko (Apr 22, 2004 10:49AM)
I think it's just whatever your used to. Although they do make most gimmicks with Bikes so I think I'd have to give the nod to Bikes....not that gaffs are important, but for the best all round deck I'd have to say bikes for their versatility.
Message: Posted by: Nik_Mikas (Apr 22, 2004 06:10PM)
I would like to add that perhaps the only reason one kind of card lasts longer is because of how you handle them. I have a set of David Ben "Conjurors Suite" cards that I have had for about a year now, and I use them everyday. But I've found myself restiting the urge to use riffles or spring dribbles with them, because I like them so much. Same goes with me and Tally Fan Backs. I handle them so gently, yet I find that Tally Circle backs last me about a week. I have noticed the same patter repeated with back color...

So maybe the fact that Tally's cost you more money is the only real thing making them last longer. Maybe if they cost the same as Bikes, they would last as long... Just another take on the idea.
Message: Posted by: Chris Keppel (Apr 24, 2004 01:34PM)
I like them both, I have used them both but still stick to bicycle. They have different feels for different effects. I use the Tally's for more tricks, ace pop outs, ambitious, etc. I use the bicycle cards for more harder stuff like flourishes, and 4-5-6 way false cuts and what have you. The slickness of the bikes really comes threw when you are doing some of these new crazy 8 way cuts. I also like the slickness for things such as top card kick outs etc. They work nice because they are so smooth. It's almost no effort.

I just wanted to add that I'm not bashing Tally's at all, they are indeed great cards, and I have used them many many times. I just find the bikes nice for what I do. I also like the nugget cards. They are very cool to bust out at the conventions because a lot of people have never seen them.
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Apr 24, 2004 02:01PM)
I use mostly bikes because they are well known and widely available. However, all the new cards being produced have a very slick surface compared to my old decks from decades ago (I still some). This can effect the way moves are done. For example the one hand palm was easier to do with the older cards. The card would literally snap into the palm. Now it goes but it takes a little more finesse. Anyone else out there find that this rings true?
Message: Posted by: CG7c (Apr 24, 2004 02:05PM)
I just got Tally Ho's and I love them they are soo cool and I think better but they do cost more.
Christopher
Message: Posted by: cardguy2 (Apr 24, 2004 10:27PM)
I have to advocate both I must say that I use Bikes more due to their wider availability but I have nothing but praises for Tally-Ho's I tend to go about it this way since I do Both magic and flourishes (not to say that those 2 things should be kept separate) I use Bikes for when I will be primarily doing magic and Tallys for flourishes do to feel and overall durability.
Message: Posted by: Catmouth (Apr 25, 2004 11:58AM)
I agree with the idea that most laymen don't really care about the design on the back of cards. I mean I can't think of any "normal" person that buys as many cards as me, or care if its a circle,eagle, or fan on the back. I do think you will raise a few eyebrows if you change backs in the course of a performance. I think that consistancy in the backs is as important as using the same color backs all the time, unless you have patter that dictates you use another color, such as a replacment deck after torn/restored and the like. Back to the subject, I have just recently broken down and gotten a case of Tally-Hos. I have to say that they are slicker than all of the bikes I have ever used. It's either that, or they have the ability to increase gravity when released from the pack. They do faro easier, and they just "feel" better in my hands. But again, those are MY hands and if everyones hands were the same, I would be able to palm a card :) I really like the Tally-Ho cards.
Message: Posted by: Joey Evans (Apr 25, 2004 05:57PM)
Tally-Ho all the way. These cards are so much smoother. I don't know if they last longer or not, I'm pretty rough on my cards, but I do know I like the feel when they come out a lot better. Simple things like Fans and Lepaul Spreads and tougher things like Table Faros, top shots, all seem better with it. The difference doesn't make them the ONLY cards I use, but I prefer them. I use bikes probably more often, because they're more prevalent to buy and I hoard my HOs.

Joey
Message: Posted by: artofmanipulation (Apr 26, 2004 08:15AM)
Correct me if I'm wrong. I find that Bees are much harder to fan as compared to Bicycle. But the edges are more even. This enable DL to be easily executed.
Message: Posted by: Joey Evans (Apr 26, 2004 11:33AM)
Bees are much harder to fan. I only use them when I'm doing a trick with several second deals, I find the borders help out a bit.
Message: Posted by: lchemist (Apr 26, 2004 11:06PM)
What do you think about the Bicycle Black Tiger decks that Brad Christian is selling?
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Apr 27, 2004 12:39AM)
I don't think Tally-Ho's are any better than bicycle cards and visa versa.
They are both quality cards. It doesn't matter beyond that.
I use bicycle because they are easier to get and the price is better.
Message: Posted by: Tielie (Apr 27, 2004 07:29AM)
I know a store that sells them per brick for the same price I believe. I shouldn't advertise I think but the price is of no meaning if you ask me.
Next shipment I will buy some bicycle league cards. They look very awesome I think, and bikes suit me well.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hallahan (Apr 27, 2004 11:23AM)
I use Bikes because I can buy them in bulk at a considerable savings.

In addition, I do a few gaffed tricks. All the gaffs I own are Bicycle cards.

Having the gaffs the same as the deck has advantages. For one thing, you can remove the gaffed cards from a regular deck before you start the routine.

Also, most gaffed decks are available as Bicycle cards for a reasonable price.
Message: Posted by: artofmanipulation (Apr 28, 2004 07:13AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-26 12:33, Joey Brummett wrote:
Bees are much harder to fan. I only use them when I'm doing a trick with several second deals, I find the borders help out a bit.

[/quote]

Thanks for the input. I was beginning to suspect that I've got myself an imitation Bee.
Message: Posted by: magic_tom1 (Apr 28, 2004 07:38PM)
I have not tried the Black Tiger Bikes, but if they are the same quality as ordinary Bikes, I think they would be pretty interesting, especially with all the different story lines available.

If anyone is unfamiliar with this new deck, check out http://www.ellusionist.com for more information.
Message: Posted by: artofmanipulation (Apr 29, 2004 07:30AM)
I think the Black Tiger bikes is a new way from Team Ellusionist to make a handsome fortune off magicians who is particuliar about what cards they use.Ellusionist should spawn another marketing subsidiary instead of continuing as a magic company because they are so much better in marketing!
Message: Posted by: Chris Keppel (Apr 30, 2004 01:08AM)
You all should check out the Black tiger bicycles. They are pretty nice. Reverse black and white. The box is cool too with the tiger on the front.
Message: Posted by: Tielie (Apr 30, 2004 03:20AM)
I am waiting for my 12 star-backed decks of tally ho to arrive, after my mum bought some of them for my good grades :D
Message: Posted by: melwind (Apr 30, 2004 09:49PM)
I read thru the entire thread... and it has been most informative :D...

what about STRATUS carta mundi decks...anyone heard of it...its made belgium... its hard to purchase any american cards in Malaysia but when I was New Zealand I found this STRATUS deck and its linen finish...
you can view this deck here http://www.bridgemagazine.co.uk/shop/item290.htm

I find this deck softer and thinner than bicycle cards...

I think for the price bicycle cards are more economical than tally-hos and if it doesn't last as long...buy a new one :D
Message: Posted by: kerpa (Apr 30, 2004 10:06PM)
Well, I have beside me 2 brand new decks of Tally-Ho No. 9. I do not for the life of me see what all the hub bub is about. For me, the T-Hs are much more difficult to faro compared to most (new) Bicycle decks. I think the linoid surface is slightly less smooth than Bicycles. So, back to Bicycles.
I would like to try out the Black Tigers, for appearance sake. Anyone agree with me that it's only a matter of time before BTs are mass produced and much easier to get? Or am I dreaming?
kerpa
a/k/a Mike Miller
Chicago area
Message: Posted by: MAK1179 (May 3, 2004 10:33AM)
I am quite fond of Bicycles myself. I think the familiarity with the Bicycle rider backs is more prominent in the US.

As far as quality goes, the Bikes vary. The majority of the time they are fine. No problems with their straightness or finish. Sometimes though it's as if the printing crew were intoxicated when they cut them:)

Aviators were always very poor for me...I could kill a pack of them in 4 hours. However, the USPCC aparently has changed the stock and finish on them a bit at some point and apparently they are much better now.

I haven't had the opportunity to use a deck of Tally's yet as they aren't that available though I've heard nothing but good things about them.

I have however owned a few 'Bee' decks and LOVE the quality of them. I beat the living hell out one for a month straight and they are still in good shape. I cannot stand the back design of them though.

As far as the Bicycle Black Tiger decks are concerned. Everything about them is the same as normal bikes. The stock, the finish, the designs...everything. It just uses black ink. HOWEVER...The 2nd editions coming out will be using the 'Bee' casino quality stock and will have the standard Air Cushion finish. I'm excited about the new stock being used for them. As I stated earlier. I love the Bee cards quality.
Message: Posted by: Jim Morton (May 3, 2004 12:30PM)
I prefer Tally-Ho Circle Backs. They faro much, much better than Bikes most of the time. Bikes can faro well, but it's a 50/50 proposition--Tally-Hos give you better odds. Trust me on this. I have never seen a Tally-Ho deck that is as bad as a badly cut Bike deck (although I have had a few that left a little to be desired).

Bees practially faro themselves, but I need the white border for several effects I perform. As MAK1179 already mentioned, they last forever. If USPC came out with the Bee finish and quality on a Bike or T-H back I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

Studs are also good for faro shuffles and card manipulation. They are a little thinner than most cards, which takes some getting used to, and they don't last as long, but they are pretty good cards nonetheless.

CVS cards don't faro well at all, but I like them otherwise. I can't quite put my finger on why though. Also, like Tally-Ho Circle Backs, they are very subtle one ways.

I hate Hoyles. David Regal once said that when you first use them, Hoyles are the worst cards you've ever used, and then once they are broken in, they are the best cards. That my be true, but I have never reached that point with them. I just can't stand them.

Some finger flickers like Jerry's Nuggets cards. I, personally, do not think they are all that. If you use a faro shuffle a lot (as I do), there are better choices. They are fairly stiff cards and will last a long time.

For those people who say that non-Bike cards make people think the cards are gaffed, that is simply not true. I used to believe that too, until I started actually performing in the real world (or, in my case, the surreal world). Give your audience some credit, they are aware that any card can be gaffed. The back design has nothing to do with it.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 20, 2004 03:58PM)
I'm in New York City this week and a Drug Store called Duane Reed carries Tally HO's. I bought a pack and can't beleive the quality. These are so suprerior to Bikes or any other card I have used. I've gone around and bought as many packs as I could.
Message: Posted by: gogeta97 (Jul 20, 2004 05:50PM)
I bought eight decks of T-Hs from daytonamagic (don't get me started on the story). I liked them, even though I lost like three of the decks. I would make an embarrassed smiley here, but I don't know how to.

Am I correct in assuming that a Faro shuffle is just a shuffle where you take half the deck and push it into the other half?

I like T-Hs better, because of the Linoid finish. They do last longer then Bikes (assuming you don't lose them). http://www.pokerchips.com has a brick of 12 for 19.99$. I haven't ever done business from pokerchips.com, but it seems to have great prices, especially for the Hos.

Now, this can be compared to my local Costco for 12 bikes at $13.50, but if you don't mind buying in bulk online, then spring the extras and get the Tallys.

I alternate between which back and color I like, but I think that it is hooey that people think you are using gaffed decks if you aren't using bikes. I mean, yes, where I live, bikes are the main brand, but that doesn't mean that anything not bikes has to be gaffed. In fact, if I was a layman I would be more equally suspicious of both bikes and non-bikes.

My lay friends made fun of me when they saw that I had decks named Tally Hos. Hey! I think I found my new signature!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jul 20, 2004 06:21PM)
Vernon used Circle Back TH cards. That should be enough to suggest giving them a try.

I happen to like the blue circle back design. And the red star design. Then I got the Vernon book and had a good laugh. The guy had good taste.

For some reason, I feel more comfortable using the TH cards. Just a quirk for me, and perhaps Ken Krenzel too. Beyond that, whatever deck is comfortable is what YOU should be using.

Please just try them and find out for yourself. No mystique involved here. Just find what feels better for you.
Message: Posted by: Marco S. (Jul 21, 2004 09:11AM)
They are the same. Don`t believe one lasts longer than the other.
Message: Posted by: the74rock (Jul 21, 2004 12:23PM)
Tally hos have a different feel when you use it. people who say bicycles are better are too cheap to buy tally hos.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 21, 2004 01:42PM)
I've spent the day going aroung manhatten, in the humidity, and the cards are perfect. My bikes get warped in this heat.

I now have 30 decks to go home with.
Message: Posted by: LeConte (Jul 21, 2004 02:50PM)
Tally-Ho Red Circle-backs.........flame on!!

Any other cards feel kinda like using my "other" hand. I just doesn't feel right.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Jul 21, 2004 08:22PM)
I'm using the No. 9's and they rock!!!

I'm back in the apt. and they look brand new. That's 12 hrs. of street magic and they are crisp!!!
Message: Posted by: huangja (Jan 18, 2011 09:34AM)
My favorite design is the Bicycle fan back. I still have a few new decks of those that I purchased back in the 80's.
Message: Posted by: magicphill (Jan 23, 2011 08:21AM)
Just noticed this thread and agree with most that Tally Ho certainly seem to last longer and handle better than Bikes