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Topic: Slowing the pulse down
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Feb 22, 2002 02:16PM)
This is my first post at The Magic Cafe.
Several times in India, doctors and reserchers have observed some people, often yogis, that can make their pulse slow down. Note that Iīm not saying STOP the pulse, but SLOW IT DOWN.

I know that some people in magic or mentalism used to "stop the pulse". You know what I mean. But making the pulse beat slower seems to be a totally different thing. Itīs one thing to make it disappear so no one can detect it, but another to let someone take the pulse and they can detect how it sinks from 70 to 30 beats per minute in an even pace.

Can this be done by "fake"?

Whatīs your opinion?

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Drewmcadam (Feb 22, 2002 03:15PM)
Welcome Mikael.

I don't know about slowing it down, but I often stop my pulse (and no, I don't use the usual method) but first, I speed it up. How? I hold my breath and think of "naughty" things! Perhaps you can do this when the first pulse rate is being taken, so that RELATIVELY, it seems that you have slowed your pulse, then relax, think of boring things and breathe using your diaphragm and the top of the lungs to get more oxygen into the bloodstream.

Drew
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Feb 22, 2002 03:43PM)
I talked about this under one of the posts in mentalism in hypnotism. Yes, it is possible to slow one's pulse but not stop it.

There are also tricks to stop the pulse by blocking it from a higher up pressure point.
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Feb 22, 2002 04:30PM)
[quote]
On 2002-02-22 16:43, DenDowhy wrote:
I talked about this under one of the posts in mentalism in hypnotism. Yes, it is possible to slow one's pulse but not stop it.
[/quote]

But can it be slowed down to the extreme points that has been meassured? Itīs been mentioned less then 10 beats per minute.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Feb 22, 2002 04:48PM)
I don't think ten beats is realistic, however, I believe anything is possible when it comes to controlling the body.
Message: Posted by: MichelAsselin (Mar 1, 2002 10:32AM)
If one thinks about it, it is relatively easy to 'let one or two" through, then stop again, then resume again. Thus, one can appear to have slowed to 10 some beats per minute. Which is probably more believable than stopping totally. During the slowing, you may appear stiff and rather rigid.

A valsalva maneuver, i.e. straining against your diaphgram, will cause temporary slowing of your heartbeat.
Message: Posted by: Megatherion (Mar 1, 2002 04:57PM)
Hi,

You don't have to fake it. Use the breathing techniques used in meditation and martial arts.

There is real magic, the illusion is that we think everything is a trick.

Yours faithfully

:devilish: Dan :devilish:
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Mar 11, 2002 07:01PM)
While I haven't done it in awhile (read that - 10 years ago) I used to cut my pulse to around 30 beats a minute using self hypnosis and similar mind/body control techniques.

Slowing my complete body system came in very handy for underwater activities. No magic, or underwater escapes, just swiimming underwater for the beauty I found there.

However from a practial standpoint, while it was a measurable reduction from my normal 68 beats, and I was able to stay under for extended periods of time, it never seemed to impress anyone but me.

So for that reason - along with being uncomfortable with hypnotism (even self hypnotism) and not having time for recreational free diving. I just quit fooling with it altogether.

I don't know that I could have gone much further down than 30. But why would one want to go to 10 anyway?

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Mar 12, 2002 05:31AM)
Thanks BroDavid, what you wrote was very interesting.

"I used to cut my pulse to around 30 beats a minute using self hypnosis and similar mind/body control techniques"

So it can be done without trickery! That was my suspicion!


"I don't know that I could have gone much further down than 30. But why would one want to go to 10 anyway?"

I guess there are several reasons they (the holy men) are doing it. One could be because in their beliefs they want to show "mind over matter". Another could be as a profession, they get paid by tourists for doing it. Thatīs the way they earn their living!

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Rodan (Mar 14, 2002 05:06AM)
Bro David, I'm intrigued as to why you are now uncomfortable with hypnotism and self-hypnosis?
Message: Posted by: MatthewBlackwell (Mar 22, 2002 05:52PM)
I have to wonder why anyone would *want* to merely slow a pulse when they could stop it?

Surely stopping it is far more impressive?

Also, I'm sure with a certain amount of suggestion you could convince them it slowed even when it in fact only weakened and stopped.

I'd be inclined (if I wanted to convince them it [i]slowed[/i]) to make it stop once (and have [i]them[/i] note the phenomenon unprompted) and then restart it.

Then I'd fade it out again out with the suggestion 'can you <pause - then mildly emphasise> feel it slowing?' <wait> '...and now it's coming back... you can feel it gaining speed again...(?)

Easier, surely, than learning self-hypnosis and yoga for the sake of a mere trick enhancement...

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Mar 24, 2002 11:10AM)
Hi Matthew.

I asked mainly to get a better understanding as to if it is possible to fake, I have drawn the conclusion that it is not possible to fake convincingly.

"I have to wonder why anyone would *want* to merely slow a pulse when they could stop it?"

1. Because what they show is REAL. They really slow their pulse down, not by trickery, but for real.

2. Maybe because it is a side effect of ANOTHER thing they want to show. It is not the main effect, but people notice it anyhow. For example: One guy in a street in India had made a hole in the ground, put his head into it, and someone covered his head with soil. He was holding his hands out to beg for money when the scientists came by. They checked his pulse and noticed it was only 10 beats/minute or whatever. They also found another thing very strange, he seemed to know where they were standing although he could not see them, because as they moved around, he always stretched his begging hand towards them. In this case the main effect was to show people that he could do without air for several minutes (I think the scientists were standing there for 20 minutes and then left). The lowering of the pulse accomplished this, since you do not need as much oxygen if your pulse is lower.

"Surely stopping it is far more impressive?"

No. Not since I know that you could fake it. I have not heard, however, about anyone faking lowering the pulse.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: MatthewBlackwell (Mar 25, 2002 05:28PM)
…Depends on the audience then I suppose...

I don't think you'll find many lay people that know you can stop your pulse, or would find it any less impressive a feat than slowing it.

A little quote of interest from The Secrets of Houdini by J. C. Cannell:

[quote]
The fakir appeared to go into what is called a trance and gave one or two low moans. During these moments his pulse was beating normally, but as I held his wrist,
I realized that it was getting distinctly slower in speed. I checked this fact carefully with my watch and told my friend on the other side [of the fakir] what was happening. The speed of the fakirs pulse on my side had gone down to less than half the normal, but my friend reported that, on his side, it was still beating at the usual rate.[/quote]

Houdini goes on to discuss the method we all know to produce a ‘standard’ stopping of the pulse. However, he [b]very clearly and explicitly[/b] describes a [i]slowing[/i] of the pulse. We know the fakir is using the standard method since he controls the two sides of his body independently – and we only have one heart.

What we have here is a very interesting eye-witness account from one who we would usually credit with being a very keen observer. Yet it seems flawed?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Mar 26, 2002 05:33AM)
[quote]
On 2002-03-25 18:28, MatthewBlackwell wrote:
What we have here is a very interesting eye-witness account from one who we would usually credit with being a very keen observer. Yet it seems flawed?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell



[/quote]

I donīt know Matthew, Sometimes maybe we must trust peopleīs observational skills?
If we always say that something can be explained by this and that, I think we miss true mysteries.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Allen Gittelson (Mar 27, 2002 04:41PM)
I believe you will find if you experiment with monitoring it that when measuring the pulse on a persons wrists that they will not necessarily match each other. The "one heart, one identical pulse everywhere theory" I believe is false. There is a type of body reading that can be done by determining which side of the person's pulse has altered.

I cannot say that I know a great deal about this medically, but on a couple occasions under strict challenge conditions I did use this type of reading fairly successfully. I don't use this method typically, but it did help to be aware of this in the particular situations I encountered.

I realize that I didn't need to take the challenge, but I did see the opportunity to grow my skills and work on learning something new.

In one case, my girlfriend peeked a card and then put the cards away and I had no clue what card she looked at and I had no access to the deck. She knows about swami gimicks and such and I chose to rise to the challenge by body reading. I asked for her cooperation and asked for her to think of one arm as black suits, and one for red, read the result and moved to the next binary test until we got down to the end.

I think I initially read about this in Psychological Subtleties, but I am not completely certain. I think I've seen it written elsewhere.

Try it and really work to hone the skill and see what you think. I'd love to talk to someone who knows more about this. I'm very interested in contact mindreading.

Regards,
Allen
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Mar 31, 2002 01:43AM)
It's easy to stop your pulse, although you shouldn't do it for more than a few seconds. The gimmick is a racketball!

How you use it, I think many of you already know.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Apr 9, 2002 08:53AM)
[quote]
On 2002-03-31 02:43, Alan Munro wrote:
It's easy to stop your pulse, although you shouldn't do it for more than a few seconds. The gimmick is a racketball!

How you use it, I think many of you already know.

[/quote]

But one does not need to use a gimmick to do it! At least I don't.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Apr 15, 2002 04:48PM)
The methods of slowing, speeding and stopping your pulse without using the ball are well described on page 312 in issue 37 of The Compleat Invocation. I have recently been doing research into this effect (slowing and stopping your pulse) as I have my own effect wherein your pulse is stopped and then you appear to stop the pulse of a spectator (no stooge!) that will soon appear in a book I will be releasing written by Kenton Kneeper.

My two personal fav (other than my own effect) uses of this I have seen are;

An effect by Leslie May where he "slips" into an altered state and has his pulse checked as a way of "proving his astral journey" (this appeared in an old issue of the Invocation) and an effect of the mighty Steve Banachek which appeared in one of Docc Hilfords magazines where his pulse stops during a living and dead test - to locate the "dead" slip.

Anyway, hope this is of help,

Regards,

Luke.



:pepper:
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Apr 17, 2002 03:34AM)
Reading all the answers in this thread, I still can not find any convincing evidence that you can SLOW the pulse down convincingly. The easiest explanation of what I described in the beginning is that his pulse really was slowed down. Not appeared to be, but really was. You canīt hold your breath for more than 20 minutes if your metabolism is as high as it use to be. But if you lower your metabolism, you do not need as much oxygen, and can hold your breath longer. If you lower your metabolism your pulse rate also drops. I have experienced it myself. During a special diet my pulse rate dropped (lowered metabolism), and instead of being able to hold my breath for 1.5 minutes which is my usual limit, I was able to hold it for 3 minutes.

Mikael
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Apr 17, 2002 05:08AM)
As I said in my previous post a workable (i use it) method f slowing your pulse appears in the Compleat Invocation on page 312.

It really does slow the pulse down.

Luke.
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Apr 17, 2002 10:35AM)
Can the pulse be checked anywhere on the body? I.e. on the throat, on the chest right over the heart? In that case Iīm interested to know where to buy the publication you are talking about.

Mikael

[quote]
On 2002-04-17 06:08, Ramsay wrote:
As I said in my previous post a workable (i use it) method f slowing your pulse appears in the Compleat Invocation on page 312.

It really does slow the pulse down.

Luke.
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Ramsay (Apr 17, 2002 02:14PM)
It could be checked in the throat and the arm. It also briefly talks about how to appear to stop your heart - something I doubt it's effectiveness.

But it does actually stop/slow the pulse in yuor arm.

Luke. :pepper:
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (Apr 18, 2002 08:14AM)
And do you know where this publication is available?

Mikael
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (May 9, 2002 08:36PM)
Hello Again Mikael, Sorry it took me so long to respond.

You asked why I am uncomfortable with Self-Hypnosis etc. It is becuase it is, or approaches, messing with various spirits which is warned against in the Bible.

WHen I did those things in the past, (self hypno, etc.) I did not know what the Bible said on teh subject, and frankly - even if I had known - I would not have cared.

Since that time, I have learned that the Bible is God's Word. And God is God, and I am not!

So I dont mess with things that are clearly forbidden in the Bible. King Saul consulted teh Witch of Endor, and it cost him a Kingdom.

That is my reason. I do my best to live according to God's Word.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Mikael Eriksson (May 10, 2002 03:04AM)
BroDavid, exactly what does the bible say that has made you believe hypnotism messes with spirits? In my knowldge hypnotism only uses very deep relaxation of both the body and the mind, and the hypnotist doesnīt mention spirits when he talks to the subject, or anything that can be interpreted as having anything to do with spirits.

Mikael

[quote]
On 2002-05-09 21:36, BroDavid wrote:
Hello Again Mikael, Sorry it took me so long to respond.

You asked why I am uncomfortable with Self-Hypnosis etc. It is becuase it is, or approaches, messing with various spirits which is warned against in the Bible.

WHen I did those things in the past, (self hypno, etc.) I did not know what the Bible said on teh subject, and frankly - even if I had known - I would not have cared.

Since that time, I have learned that the Bible is God's Word. And God is God, and I am not!

So I dont mess with things that are clearly forbidden in the Bible. King Saul consulted teh Witch of Endor, and it cost him a Kingdom.

That is my reason. I do my best to live according to God's Word.

BroDavid
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: The Bear (May 10, 2002 04:46AM)
Obviously, I don't mean to step on anybodys faith here, but I've been intensively studying clinical hypnosis for professional purposes and have not found any mention by any person or in any book of hypnosis having anything at all to do with 'spirits'.

Hypnosis is a perfectly natural state of mind, something that EVERYBODY enters frequently (though lightly) whenever you daydream, whenever you are engrossed in a movie. You pass through the hypnotic state whenever you pass into sleep and again before you fully awaken (though hypnosis itself, of course, is NOT sleep).

It's just a state where a participant allows themself to become highly physically and mentally relaxed, and open to helpful and beneficial suggestions. Any other type of suggestions made will just be ignored or rejected.

Sorry to rabbit on, but I quite like to evangelise on the subject because of all the disinformational rubbish that's been spouted about hypnosis in bad B movies and the media.
Message: Posted by: Dr. JK (May 13, 2002 11:31AM)
I don't know about hypnosis and "spirits", but I do know this...as a Christian, I am always under the Holy Spirit's influence. I am never to give control of any part of my body to someone other than Him, even for "[i]helpful and beneficial suggestions[/i]." I know that hypnosis is not putting yourself 'totally' in someone else's control, but it is enough control by them to warrant being wrong. If you are not a Christian, this will be hard to understand, but this is what I believe.
Message: Posted by: The Bear (May 14, 2002 05:14AM)
Okay, I'm going to tip the secret of hypnosis...

ALL hypnosis is SELF-hypnosis !!!

When someone else 'hypnotises' you (hetero-hypnosis), all they're actually doing is allowing you to guide yourself into the state.

Anyway, I do understand your concern of apparently being partially under another's control, even if voluntarily so. I would say, however, that you're no more in someone else's control that if you visited your doctor and he prescribed you some pills. You can still choose whether to take them or not! And if you've ever been a passenger in a motor car, or travelled by train (something rather perilous in the UK at the moment), you're putting yourself at least partially in the control of someone else, much more so than hypnosis ever would.

It would be a neat trick to go though life completely independently.
Message: Posted by: Dr. JK (May 14, 2002 06:20AM)
Hi Bear,

I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was not advocating that we can go through life without help or advice...no!

However, I must disagree with you...there is a difference between riding a train or going to the doctor and being hypnotized. When I ride a train, whatever the conductor does will have an important effect on my life, but he is not directly trying to suggest things for [i]me myself[/i] to do. Also, when I visit the doctor, he suggests things to better my health, but not by inducing me into a trance where I have less control over my body than normal. Like I said, I don't expect everyone to understand my position, but this is where I stand. I hope I have explained it clearly. :whatthe: Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Message: Posted by: The Bear (May 14, 2002 07:11AM)
Jeff, I think I'm gaining a better understanding of where you're coming from now, and thanks for clarifying it for me.

I would just like to make one final point, and that is one of a assurance that under hypnosis the person is always in complete control of both mind and body, and can choose to 'snap out of it' any time they like. Most of the time though, people don't, because it can actually be quite enjoyable!

And on that note, I'll sign-off. You may have concluded that this is a subject about which I am passionate, and you would be right. It's just that there has been so much dis-information about the subject over the years that somebody has to fight the opposite corner! And thanks for putting up with my ramblings.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (May 14, 2002 01:45PM)
Scientific American published a very interesting article on the most recent scientific theories regarding hypnosis in its July 2001 issue:

"The Truth and the Hype of Hypnosis"

http://www.sciam.com/2001/0701issue/0701nash.html
Message: Posted by: The Bear (May 15, 2002 04:01AM)
Thanks for that, Philemon. It's a good article, and from a respected journal too.

The most important conclusion (other than it's real) is that, for clinical use, it's meant as complementary to other medical care, not as an alternative.
Message: Posted by: Lesault (May 21, 2002 01:18AM)
I have been messing around recently with making my pulse appear to have slowed - here's how I do it...

First, use your favorite technique of stopping the pulse in your wrist to get rid of your real pulse.
I keep my hand in a very loose fist with the tip of my middle finger touching the ball of my thumb just to the side of the 'life line'. By gently pressing the middle finger against the ball of your thumb (the finger moves less than 1mm), you create something that feels a lot like a weak pulse in your wrist. Ok, it won't fool anyone with any medical training, but most people will accept it.

Hope this helps!
Message: Posted by: Cornelius (May 30, 2002 06:32PM)
Don't try the old method of slowing the pulse down. It can clot the blood.

From,
Cornelius. :bluebikes:
Message: Posted by: Darmoe (Jun 15, 2002 12:44PM)
[quote]
On 2002-03-01 17:57, Megatherion wrote:
Hi,

You don't have to fake it. Use the breathing techniques used in meditation and martial arts.

There is real magic, the illusion is that we think everything is a trick.

Yours faithfully

:devilish: Dan :devilish:
[/quote]

You keep saying things like this and I'm going to start liking you... :blush:

Years ago I studied with a genuine Occultist named Don Blythe who just happened to be one of the many old Carnies I worked with (not to drop names but... I was part of the Ward Hall "Circus Unique" and "Wondercade" teams... John Meah, Bill Fitch... the whole crew!) Anywho... Don was known for stopping his heart, doing the paulse thing, etc. He taught me a few of his techniques with the understanding that the paulse, heart, etc. are all muscles and as such, can be trained & conditioned

The trick, aside from the aforementioned breathing techniques common to Yoga & Martial Arts, is a mantra --a rythm that is established either via a chant, drum or whathaveyou... in the simplest of terms, you do associative training of each muscle group you want to affect, getting the heart/paulse to beat at your will, to the cadence of said mantra...

After several years of doing this you will learn how to slow and control the rate of each muscle group by using the mantra and "chanting" it as slow or fast as is needed... Like the old Hypnosis suspension thing with the girl in the window, Don would simulate death for weeks at a time as a promo to his own side show draws each October, in Hollywood (The Ram Center on Wilcox @ Hollywood Blvd. a.k.a. Pan Pipes).

This, along with a version of Stigmata allowed him to run a nice little Pagan fellowship for years... :angel:
Message: Posted by: AceOfJokers (Jun 30, 2017 05:36PM)
My father was an armed forces marksman. He was trained to slow his heart-rate in order to take the shot when looking down a scope.
Message: Posted by: Djin (Aug 8, 2017 06:04PM)
I've never slowed mine down enough to thrill a crowd on the midway, but I have an almost funny anecdote of pulse slowing.
I had to take a medical exam right after a particularly ugly exchange with my wife. Sparing you the irrelevant dirty laundry, if you've been married you can imagine tremendous stress that leaves one's hands shaking with anger. Anyway I had about 15 minutes before walking into the exam room. I sat in my car and practiced breathing techniques I learned from a couple decades of martial arts study. I got it down enough that after standing up and walking in I was still under 60bpm. Not extraordinary in itself, but in context it was a huge reduction.

In the time I studied and practiced, I saw and experienced some remarkable and esoteric things. I have no doubt that feats much greater than slow heart rates (like 30 or 20bpm) are well within reach. Some of the classic fakir routines are effects, others are real feats of human performance. Pursuits like QuiGong and Yoga are far deeper than a bit of fitness and stress relief.