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Topic: B'Wave Opener Question
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Mar 25, 2008 07:17PM)
I have run into a small problem with B'wave and was wondering if the powerful minds of this forum could help me out with it. 3 times in a row when I pull out B'wave for people, they immediately challenge my cards. These are people who have never even seen my do a trick before. Let me do an example:

Me: "I have here a pack of playing cards and I have gone ahead and removed the 4 queens." (I pull out the packet, face down, from in front of the flap....I've found getting it off the top of the deck can be tricky)
Them: (like a machine gun they say) "Well can I see them?...how do I know they are the 4 queens?!?!"

What do I say to this and, more importantly, how do I prevent it? Also, if you have any performance suggestions or even full scripts, feel free to share.

I know that this post (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=50357&forum=2&start=0) covers some presentations of B'wave, but it doesn't really get to the heart of my problem and it's kind of old anyway. I hope this is in the right forum since I'm a beginner, it is about cards, and it's really a patter question.

Thanks in advance!
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Mar 25, 2008 07:58PM)
You might try beginning this routine by asking a question, such as "Do you believe in free will?" as you pull out your cards and set the 4 "queens" aside. That way, their mental activity is directed towards thinking of an answer to your question, and not towards challenging your basic premise.

Your audience's reaction is logical. You say you have four [b][i]queens[/i][/b] yet you offer no proof.

Also, if you are using "B'wave" specifically, the cards you whip out are most likely a different looking back design than your bicycle deck (ask me how I know you are using a bycycle deck...) and this will make them even more suspicious. (PS- the marketed effect "Twisted Sisters" uses Bicycle backed cards...)

They know you are a magician and that you're gonna try to fool them. If you say "I have 4 cards" as opposed to "I have 4 queens", this much is obviously true, and they are much less likely to say "Oh, yeah? Prove it!"

You've got to start looking at your tricks [b]and the words you use in your tricks[/b] from the point of view of the audience. Just because you say something doesn't make it true- doubly so because you're a magician!

You are asking the right questions, so you are already on the right track! Good Luck!
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Mar 25, 2008 08:05PM)
Thanks gaddy! Actually, I am using a blue bicycle B'wave and taking it out of a blue bicycle deck...it even fits in that gap outside the flap really well.

I like your idea of asking questions. I don't know if that is the right one to ask for the way I do the trick though. I tend to put the trick up as though I'm actively manipulating the cards and miming the actions (which eventually become real). I have read in this forum that really it shouldn't be magic, but mentalism/prediction. Ideas on that too? Still looking for more help with my first issue.
Message: Posted by: Josh the Superfluous (Mar 25, 2008 08:50PM)
I think Gaddy is giving good advice. Using your opening line, in any other effect, it would be natural to show them face up. I'm not sure I follow your presentation, but how about "I'd like you to picture four queens in your mind", as you remove the cards? Let them make their own assumptions regarding what you hold.
Message: Posted by: erlandish (Mar 25, 2008 09:41PM)
Gaddy's advice is good. Give them a hook that leads to the effect, rather than talking about your props. I had a similar packet effect where I start and end dirty. To get out of starting dirty, I'd tell the spectators that one of the cards was unqiue as I pulled them out, and that their job was to find the unique card. Given that I was showing a whole bunch of different cards, it didn't make sense that one would be more unique than the other. In any case, I had them wondering what would happen next before they actually had time to question the nature of the cards.

So that's how I got into it. How I got out of it is another story...
Message: Posted by: davidpaul$ (Mar 25, 2008 09:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-03-25 21:05, loyaleagle wrote:
Thanks gaddy! Actually, I am using a blue bicycle B'wave and taking it out of a blue bicycle deck...it even fits in that gap outside the flap really well.

I like your idea of asking questions. I don't know if that is the right one to ask for the way I do the trick though. I tend to put the trick up as though I'm actively manipulating the cards and miming the actions (which eventually become real). I have read in this forum that really it shouldn't be magic, but mentalism/prediction. Ideas on that too? Still looking for more help with my first issue.
[/quote]

I think you should re-read Gaddy's post. Your above presentation which you seem
adamant about may be the problem, thus the reason for your post.
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Mar 25, 2008 09:53PM)
No need for all the reiteration that gaddy is making a valid point. He is! I think my whole patter needs work and I was simply saying what my fundimental "story" was. I'm not married to it...

I just so happen to have performed it a few minutes ago for my lady friend. I tried out the method used here (http://yourmagic.com/media/BWave.mov) and it worked wonderfully. She totally bought into the imagine you have cards part (which removed the need to say what the cards really were). Then later, only saying "I'm going to remove two cards" really cleaned up the "magician's choice" part. If she said red I would say "imagine I'm turning one of those face up." If she said black I would say "so you have two red cards left...imagine I'm turning one of those face up."

Also I really like dealing every card back onto their hand...very effective in making them comfortable they are seeing everything. I tried to fan the cards more this time too when I could and that worked really well.
Message: Posted by: Austin113 (Mar 25, 2008 10:30PM)
The few times that I do open with Brainwave, I use Ammar's opening - "You know, I'm the first to admit that I don't always use a full deck. So here are a few cards....from a full deck". I've done this a hundred times and no one has ever questioned it.

Also, I've noticed some mention of Twisted Sisters and people questioning your 'credibility'. I never actually state that the two different piles are queens. I stick with a whole "imagine" and "pretend" routine with it. "Here I have four face down cards. Let's pretend that they are the four queens. Here are another pile of four cards. Again, just imagine that they are the four queens". The switching piles and turning over follow really well with the 'imagine' theme. Again, nobody ever questions it, because I never claim that they ARE the four queens.
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Mar 25, 2008 10:40PM)
Austin113: That's another good one...though I think you mean B'wave (as Brainwave is usually in reference to the Brainwave deck)....
I think I will stick to being mystical for now ("this is an experiment of the imagination"), but if someone isn't taking me seriously, then I'll try that one for humor.
Message: Posted by: spycrapper (Mar 26, 2008 08:01AM)
The patter about "imagination" is the way I usually do. For me it works well to say "just imagine that these are the 4 queens" etc
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (Mar 26, 2008 09:55AM)
I just created a great set-up and I wanted to share it. I don't have a real wallet that can hold the cards without bending them and I don't particularly love to carry around plastic wallets. That said, I almost always have my deck of blue bicycles with me (matches my gaff cards). What I have done is I keep my real deck inside the box, the cards facing the same way as the box indicates the back. Then I close it and place my B'wave cards inside the box (facing the same way) on the other side of the box flap. Finally, I have a rubber band that is perfect for the size of the 4 cards.

At this point, if I want to do B'wave, I can put the box "face down" (with the printed back showing) and pull out the gaff cards half way. This is the important part. I then slide the rubber band down right off the box so it sits exactly in the middle of the cards. Then I just pull the gaffs out all the way and place them in the hand of my "victim."

I really like this method after one try with a spectator, but now I don't know what to do if I only want to use my regular deck and don't want to open with B'wave. Any ideas on that? There may be no solution...
Message: Posted by: Longhorn (Mar 27, 2008 02:19PM)
If you start by having a full deck and remove four cards for the B'Wave trick, you could easily switch real cards with the gimmicked if you wanted to. Its not all that necessary though.
Message: Posted by: Corbett (May 7, 2008 03:20PM)
When you speak of Brainwave, I assume you are not talking about 8 Card B'Wave? If you are, why are queens even mentioned? You're showing the faces of 8 different cards. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.
Message: Posted by: loyaleagle (May 7, 2008 04:43PM)
There are three tricks:
Brainwave (a full deck trick that involves different colored backs and inversion)
8 Card Brainwave (the same effect of brainwave but with 8 cards)
B'wave (a 4 card effect that shows the selected queen face up with a different back and the other 4 as blank)

There are also other varients like Entourage, but this thread is specifically about B'wave.

As an update, I have pretty much "perfected" the patter for this particular trick and really never have any trouble with it at all. Many specs walk away believing they could have selected any card, even of a different color.

Oh and I don't do the card box method anymore because it is kind of a pain. I just uses a card wallet that shares with 3 Card Monte (Skinner's).
Message: Posted by: Michael M (Nov 18, 2008 03:39AM)
If you wanted to use the cardbox still, you could open a new deck of blue backed bicycles but leave the bottom half of the celophane still on the card box. Then, you can slide the 4 cards for B'Wave down into the plastic celophane, backs facing out, on the same side matching the card case's back design - the side that has the half moon cutout where you open the box. This will keep the cards safely protected in the plastic celophane and give you the option to open with B'Wave or not as the cards in the celophane do not interfere with actual deck of cards in the case. In addition, because the cards are back out in the celophane, they are camoflauged against the backdesign on the card case - making your audience assume it's really just the design on the card case. This way, you can handle the box casually and everyone will naturally assume it is just a box having no idea that those extra cards are actually there. Hope this helps.


Michael Matson
Message: Posted by: disneywld (Nov 21, 2008 12:16AM)
Just Alan has a very nice approach in Genii - January 2001