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Topic: Nail Roulette
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 26, 2008 03:59PM)
I'm doing some research on Nail Roulette routines. Are there any where the helper chooses which container the magician slams his/her hand on?

Also, are any actually considered safer than others? If you know where the nail is then are they all of a similar level of safety? Every one of the routines shown on the infamous video is supposed to be 100% safe and yet...!

Cheers.
Message: Posted by: WolfgangStiller (Mar 26, 2008 09:34PM)
While not a nail roulette (it's a broken bottle roulette), I'd recommend "Shattered" available at HP and other places. I'd say this is safe and the spectator gets to choose (really choose, not a magicians choice) which to smash.
Message: Posted by: randirain (Mar 26, 2008 10:10PM)
Yes, WolfgangStiller is right.

Shattered is the only one that is 100% safe and the spectator gets to choose.
I think there is another like Shattered though.
One uses the top of a broken bottle, and the other uses the bottom.

I, personally, like the PK versions myself.
I have a version I make, that I use.
Those are about 99% safe.
I like them because they instill confidence.
The DVD Instict, although good, you still only get the "it should be under this one" feeling from it.
Not, "I know it's under that one" feel.
That the PK versions give you.

Even though I have slammed my hand down on my version before.

Randi
Message: Posted by: KMan1564 (Mar 26, 2008 11:34PM)
I believe Luke Jermay has one in one of his ebooks. IMO, it's 100% safe.
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Mar 27, 2008 07:10AM)
Ive tried the PK version I too wear one but I just have not found a very imrpomtu way to do it. I alos truly like Shattered but that would be for a more Parlor or Stage type of environment. How about Smash and Stab from Wayne Dobson? Ive always liked that one and you know him the guy is a true artist. Im pretty sure that is safe as well Jon. But your more in that world then I am, try giving him a call.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 27, 2008 08:51AM)
The thing with Smash & Stab is this was the version being used when the woman got her hand stabbed! I should say that it was *not* the fault of the prop! I currently use Shattered and you can't hurt yourself on the upturned bottle. However, I was specifically looking at versions using nails.
Message: Posted by: John C (Mar 27, 2008 08:58AM)
Theres one call Slamdown by Jimmy Fingers The specs tell you which one to slam (sort of) They think they do anyway. Under the cups you can place anytihng you want.

John
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Mar 27, 2008 12:28PM)
I like Paolo Cavalli's the best (besides my own Three Trap routine 'Cheap Danger' or traps-a-monte-mental)

Paolo calls it 'Sweet Pain' and it was in Issue 4 of Dale Hidebrandt's Other Stuff.

But Paolo's uses just TWO paper bags (Red and Black) and the most natural force on the planet. It is to my liking because it is a lightning fast routine and can use a nail in a piece of board no problem and has a rewarding ending for the audience. They get candy! 100% safe as well...unless you are really really stupid.
Message: Posted by: hackmonkey (Mar 28, 2008 02:51AM)
I do a routine with five platforms where the spec does most of the choosing. You can't hear it even on the las two I ge them to choose. No stooging.

Here is a performance from last year.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=229539&forum=62

I did this on TV for Max Magic with a large scuba knife on Dave Courtney.
We actually met Jon at auditions for PLaying Tricks, I think you did bowling ball from briefcase. What you up to these days?

Joe
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 28, 2008 05:54AM)
Hi Joe,

As has been shown, geting your helper's hand involved can be potentially disastrous. People do things for no apparant reason and it is very easy to concentrate on where the nail/spike is and accidentally slam a hand down on it. Even if you take all the precautions in the world, nothing can prevent human behaviour kicking in!

I'm actually working on a new lecture and some new effects... :)
Message: Posted by: TheTableTopTrixta (Mar 28, 2008 06:02AM)
I love and use SPIKE!
Message: Posted by: paisa23 (Mar 28, 2008 11:49AM)
Jon if you find what you are looking for PLEASE let me know I'm on the same mission except I'm looking for a more Impromtu way since I'm an Everyday close-up type of performer.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Mar 28, 2008 01:07PM)
Cavalli's routine, a bit altered, I outlined above, could be 'impromptu'...have a couple of 'lunch bags'...Take a sharpie and put a big 'A' on one and a 'B' on the other. 'Fill' them out of sight (under the table) and do the routine which is a very fast (or I suppose you could draw it out for suspense...I like the shock better of them not knowing till after you reveal what you almost just did to your hand.) For an impromptu a broken bottle would work better than a prepped nail in a piece of wood unless you have a small piece of wood and hammer the nail in it in front of them. Works for me.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Mar 28, 2008 02:16PM)
In our new show they choose the spike and they slam there hand down....once this years tour is finished I might sell the explanation.

Watch this space.

Best,
Matt
Message: Posted by: donrodrigo (Mar 29, 2008 05:39AM)
My good friend Scott Alexander has a nice presentation with bottles his dvd is the Midnight show.Look it up.
Message: Posted by: Dick Barry (Mar 31, 2008 09:17PM)
I just purchased Matthew Mello's DVD called "INSTINCT", available from Hocus-Pocus Magic, just to learn the method. It is very good and the price is right. You can make his gimmick in less than 5 minutes. (p.s. I made a limited run of 13 units called "DEADLY DUO". It retailed for $175. and is sold by Hocus-Pocus. That being said, I must admit to the lay audience INSTINCT is just a good.
Message: Posted by: donrodrigo (Apr 1, 2008 12:50AM)
Thanks Mr. Berry I'll look it up and give you my opinion.
Message: Posted by: hackmonkey (Apr 1, 2008 01:08AM)
I wouldn't do this routine with a specs hand if I didn't think it was safe. that's one of the reasons I smash the first bag down. With so many platforms so close together I think they might skim it or hit the wrong one.

Anyway just change it so only you smash the bags. The method is based on a card effect Mr Burger.
Message: Posted by: HollyMental (Apr 1, 2008 03:19AM)
You THINK itís safe? Thatís not good enough. Unless your nail is fake and collapsible, it ISNíT safe!

Sorry but any mentalist who performs a dangerous demonstration such as this with a spectatorís hand is risking permanent damage to the spectatorís hand and deserves to never work in this business again.

Imagine if you were at some show and the performer impaled your hand on a nail. Imagine if you lost partial function of your hand for the rest of your life. Itís not funny and itís not a joke. This is serious and any performer who uses a spectatorís hand for this stunt clearly does not understand what heís doing.

Clearly the spectator doesnít understand the danger sheís in. No one has the right to risk someone elseís hand that way. No matter how safe you THINK it is.


Holly
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (Apr 1, 2008 08:11AM)
"You THINK itís safe? Thatís not good enough. Unless your nail is fake and collapsible, it ISNíT safe"

I use a real nail, not collapsable, but it is 100% safe, unless of course I was performing while under the influence of acid or very large amounts of alcohol, then it would be dangerous, hmm on 2nd thought that could happen.
Message: Posted by: Marc DeSouza (Apr 1, 2008 10:43AM)
Hi Jon (et al),

I use The Nail by Hakan Varol of Germany. It is the best, safest version I have seen. If you screw up, it's your own *** fault, meaning that you know if it will screw up before you smash your hand down. The downside is that you have to buy it from him in person...he will not send it by post...it's a liability thing. I'll talk to you more about it at FFFF...in fact, I'll try to remember to bring it along to show you.

Marc DeSouza
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Apr 1, 2008 08:32PM)
Hi Marc,

I believe that The Nail was one of the methods used in the You Tube video of people injuring themselves. I could be wrong though. I remember you telling me about it at FISM 2003 but I would be very interested to see the one you have. You remind me of baby photos; I'll remind you of instruments of screaming, pain and suffering. Hmmm... maybe they have more in common than I thought! ;-)

Jon
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Apr 1, 2008 09:43PM)
Howdy Marc. Is the Hakan Varol version the one that uses a remo** and li*** coming from the nail?
Message: Posted by: Marc DeSouza (Apr 3, 2008 03:51PM)
Hi Jon (ROFL!!!) and Larry,

Yes Larry, that's the one. It's pretty foolproof...you don't see the l...t, you don't smash the cups. You will have to figure your own way of bowing out gracefully. Yes, this is the method that Mr. Korn screwed up on TV..he must have had a brain fart!

Marc
Message: Posted by: D J Hawkins (Apr 3, 2008 04:37PM)
Smash and Stab is the best version - bar none.

One of my favourite items to perform for a small group and gets amazing reactions.

It can't go wrong unless you are completely stupid and don't pay any attention to what you are doing. You can be totally hands off when performing with the spectator handling all the props, your hands don't have to go anywhere near the cups, and you don't have all the risks of handling broken glass.

Oh.....and NEVER use a spectator's hand !!!!!
Message: Posted by: daviaac (Apr 3, 2008 05:49PM)
Sorry to throw a firework into the mix after watching this on tv about a 2 years ago I decided not to bother anymore with the effect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KMwrFKrM3U

I'm not going to rant you guys have probably seen this before but look at what happens right before the accident 'the magician was 100% correct it was just something else'

cheers
luke
Message: Posted by: ben jaques (Apr 3, 2008 09:41PM)
My buddy has the Scorpion by Outlaw Effects, it's a thing of beauty!

check it out!

http://outlaw-effects.com/outlaweffects/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=1

100% safe, if done right?
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Apr 4, 2008 04:46PM)
Hi David,

It's not about being stupid. You-Know-Who was using S&S when he impaled his female helper. Nobody can predict when a brain fart (a technical medical term?) takes over.

I am looking forward to seeing the nail at FFFF!
Message: Posted by: kardini (Apr 4, 2008 06:43PM)
My NAIL ROULETTE in brazilian TV:

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=zuH2sumr120

- - - and here one that is 100% safe (with a EGG...):

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=kIm2uv1ol2Q

Cheers from Brazil,

KARDINI




============
Message: Posted by: D J Hawkins (Apr 5, 2008 05:11AM)
Sorry - "stupid" was a bad choice of words. By maintaining focus on what you are doing, and ensuring you have a mental checklist during the effect, the risk of a "brainfart" screwing things up can be made as low as reasonable practicable. After all, the complicated procedure and considerable risks involved in driving to the gig surely outweight the simple mental process required in performing this effect. But NEVER, EVER use a spectator's hand.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 1, 2009 04:44AM)
I wanted to ressurect this thread because I will be launching my new Nail Roulette in a couple of weeks. It is categorically 100% safe and someone else even selects which bags are to be crushed. It has already had some outings and I have even performed it with Boris Wild's hand. It's so safe I would be happy to use Tiger Woods' hand.

Hopefully someone will give a review soon.
Message: Posted by: TheTableTopTrixta (Mar 1, 2009 02:47PM)
Jon, how much is this item??

Ash
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 1, 2009 03:36PM)
I'll know precisely at the end of this coming week but I will say that it is going to be on the expensive side.

However, it will still be much, much cheaper than a lawsuit or the cost of lost earnings :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (May 5, 2009 03:47AM)
The first time you look at it, Smash and Stab appears to be a very safe version. However, it's also the version that more people seem to have injured themselves or someone else with.

I've used Scorpion and I've used Spike -- I like both of them.

Scott Alexander's "Shattered" is the only 100% safe version that I have seen. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to injure himself or another person when smashing down on the bags. The drawback is that you have to smash up a beer bottle at the beginning of the routine. This is the only part of the trick that has a real chance of injury in it. You might be able to cut yourself on a sliver of glass.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 5, 2009 05:05PM)
I have come to realise that a more appropriate term to use rather than "100% safe" is "accident-proof". Scott Alexander's 'Shattered' is accident-proof, as is 'The Pain Game'.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (May 5, 2009 06:31PM)
My Russian Roulette Staple Gun Routine is also 'accident proof'.

I can't understand why people have such a hard time grasping the difference between something being '100% safe'/'accident proof' and; '100% safe'/'accident proof - so long as you don't forget what you're doing'.

Effects of this sort can only be considered 'accident proof' or '100% safe' if you are unable to bring about an unsucessful conclusion of 'taking a hit' during the routine even if you, at some point, decided masochistically that this was what exactly what you wanted to do.

By the way, if I say so myself my staple gun routine is sweet. :)

Neal
Message: Posted by: Robert M (May 5, 2009 08:51PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-05 04:47, Bill Palmer wrote:
The first time you look at it, Smash and Stab appears to be a very safe version. However, it's also the version that more people seem to have injured themselves or someone else with.

I've used Scorpion and I've used Spike -- I like both of them.

Scott Alexander's "Shattered" is the only 100% safe version that I have seen. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to injure himself or another person when smashing down on the bags. The drawback is that you have to smash up a beer bottle at the beginning of the routine. This is the only part of the trick that has a real chance of injury in it. You might be able to cut yourself on a sliver of glass.
[/quote]

I came very close to injuring my eye while breaking a beer bottle doing "Shattered". A tiny sliver of glass almost went into my eye.

This looks to be safer, but I'm wondering why it's so darn expensive? It doesn't look expensive. Is this some kind of mechanical marvel?

Robert
Message: Posted by: randirain (May 5, 2009 08:53PM)
Hey Jon...
Saw the video of the Pain Game.
I liked the ending, but thought the hiding of the bags behind the table was very suspicious.
Any way to fix this?
And $500?
I sure hope you get more than a nail and some blocks of wood.

Randi
Message: Posted by: Scott Fridinger (May 6, 2009 12:29AM)
Since it has already been mentioned, Shattered is the ONLY safe way to do this effect, anyone who does the others is just looking to hurt themselves and others. Don't be stupid.

Robert, man just keep the bottle farther in the bad when you break the bottle. That's rough.
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 6, 2009 01:07AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 01:29, dinger136 wrote:
Since it has already been mentioned, Shattered is the ONLY safe way to do this effect, anyone who does the others is just looking to hurt themselves and others. Don't be stupid.

[/quote]
Actually Scorpion is pretty harmless, the spikes are only 3/4 of an inch long and they are so close together they have a "bed of nails" effect when you press down on them.

I don't see how the performer could possible miss, but the distance between the tiny cups and the Scorpion is so small that if you miss would it would leave a few pin pricks at most.

When performing Scorpion it is a very Zen like performance. No one would be doing a 180 degree above the head Criss Angel hand slam with the Scorp :).

Rick
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (May 6, 2009 03:57AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 01:29, dinger136 wrote:
Since it has already been mentioned, Shattered is the ONLY safe way to do this effect
[/quote]

No it isn't. Try reading the post 3 above your own.

Rick, I know you obviously want to protect your sales of Scorpion but I don't know how you can write;[quote]I don't see how the performer could possibly miss[/quote] when there are plenty of instances of people, for whatever reason, doing just that with this kind of effect

You then go on to say;[quote]No one would be doing a 180 degree above the head Criss Angel hand slam with the Scorp.[/quote]

Yeah sure they wont. Rather than trying to promote the idea that a performer doing this effect can't "possibly miss" I think it would be healthier and more ethical if you either stayed neutral on the subject or alternatively acknowledged that if the performer makes a mistake performing this effect there is the possibility that injury could result.

I hope this post doesn't sound agressive in tone, it certainly isn't meant to. I don't expect Rick to be responsible for any performers loss of concentration/brain farts/stupidity/general failings; I just think it isn't helpful to suggest that; a) it's not possible that any mistake could be made and; b) that if one is(?) it won't do any real damage.

Neal.
Message: Posted by: Roth (May 6, 2009 05:04AM)
Neal do you have Scorpion?

Are you suggesting that a severe injury like the ones that are "really" being hinted at about here i.e. youtube video of spikes and nails going through hands is the kind of injury Scorpion can cause?

"I don't see how a performer could possibly miss" is based on several methods that can be used to give you a 100% positive reading.

Now if someone decided to just forget using any method, and just take a wild guess at it then they could miss.

And if they were that stupid to not use the very simple method in the Inst. what kind of injury would they get?

This isn't a 4 inch nail or spike, it's a little ball of 1/2 inch spikes so close together that you could roll it in the palm of your hand.

I don't have to "protect" the sales of Scorpion :) I've sold hundreds of them and never had an email from anyone that "injured" themselves.

As far as the possibility of inflicting "severe injury" (unless you include pin pricks in the palm of your hand as a "severe injury") I stand by what I said above.

That's the exact reason I posted. Scorpion is for those that don't want to risk severe injury.

Now, I hope I didn't come across defensive.

I apologize to Jon Allen for hijacking his thread.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 6, 2009 05:11AM)
Hi Randi & Robert,

The Pain Game does not look expensive because I do not want it to look like I am using 'props'. I could have had foam pads on the bottom of the wooden blocks and had them lacquered. However, I just want them each to look like a simple block of wood with a hole in it.

As for 'mechanical marvel', well a wheel is a mechanical marvel and it's pretty basic :) I can tell you that it is not just a nail and some blocks of wood. No bags are switched in or out either. The performance on the video was done at the end of an over-running lecture and so it is rushed. Dipping down behind the table was done purely so that nobody could see where the bag I put the nail in is in the setup. Much has been made of this and I am sorry it look suspicious. The good thing is that it means the actual method is well hidden! :)

On Friday I will be able to record a better version. It will not be in front of an audience but it will show you how clean the effect is. All the mixing will be above board... and above the table :)

Quote:
________________________________________________________________________________

I don't see how the performer could possible miss
________________________________________________________________________________

Roth, it is possible (but I should add HIGHLY unlikely) to miss.... possibly in the same way you missed the 'y' key when aiming to write 'possibly'? :)

The Scorpion seems to be the link between highly dangerous (nails, knives etc.) and too safe (eggs). If someone does make a misake then serious injuries will not ensue. I've said it before, and Neal also mentioned it, that mistakes happen because of some human ability to screw up a thought process which is enhanced by the pressure of performing. Even if you know exactly where the object is, you are thinking about it and that is why, for some psychological reason, there is a slim possibilty of you going for it rather than avoiding it.

I don't want to scare people out of buying these routines but the risk, no matter how small, is there and needs to be taken seriously. In fact, thinking you are safe when the method allows for a mistake, will cause someone to drop their mental guard down a little more than usual.

This thread is about Nail Roulette so all discussion is welcome and I definitely don't feel you have hijacked it! You have a good effect and I happen to feel I do as well :)
Message: Posted by: randirain (May 6, 2009 10:29AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 06:11, Jon Allen wrote:
Hi Randi

The Pain Game does not look expensive because I do not want it to look like I am using 'props'. I could have had foam pads on the bottom of the wooden blocks and had them lacquered. However, I just want them each to look like a simple block of wood with a hole in it.

As for 'mechanical marvel', well a wheel is a mechanical marvel and it's pretty basic :) I can tell you that it is not just a nail and some blocks of wood. No bags are switched in or out either. The performance on the video was done at the end of an over-running lecture and so it is rushed. Dipping down behind the table was done purely so that nobody could see where the bag I put the nail in is in the setup. Much has been made of this and I am sorry it look suspicious. The good thing is that it means the actual method is well hidden! :)

On Friday I will be able to record a better version. It will not be in front of an audience but it will show you how clean the effect is. All the mixing will be above board... and above the table :)
[/quote]

Fair enough.

Randi
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (May 6, 2009 12:52PM)
I love these type effects. I always ask though, why is the performer doing it?

Personally I use the SMASH AND STAB gimmick, I do it blindfolded. I like it. My personal feeling is that you must perform that version with clear purpose. Note the position of the spike and focus on the others. I spent a lot of time riding mountain bike on rough trails, you didn't focus on the obstacle, you focus on the path around the obstacle.

Since my presentation doesn't involve audience members hands, I'm willing to take the risk. I'm not sure what the psychology of people missing is, but if I feel the slightest doubt, I will simply quit at that point and not trust my "intuition".

Jon, I love your stuff (silent treatment, destination box, spectators don't exist) and I do see your point about cost vs. cost, but at $500 I personally don't feel the overall "effect" justifies that expense. There are many ways both high tech and low tech to get this type of effect done. My philosophy with this effect is the same as I use when handling firearms, always treat the weapon like its loaded.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (May 6, 2009 01:01PM)
Well I'm pleased to see Rick wrote this...[quote]Now if someone decided to just forget using any method, and just take a wild guess at it then they could miss.[/quote]

...because it is effectively what's happened in all those youtube clips of people stabbing themselves (and others!)on various blades, nails and spikes. Those peformers effectively momentarily forgot the method. They knew where the object was but somehow their minds mistook, 'that's the one to avoid', for 'that's the one to go for'. As Jon puts it, they had a brain fart. It's what can sometimes happen on account of human beings being fallible.

I'm sure it's the case that no one's made this mistake with Scorpion but just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it's not possible.

Unless a routine has been devised such that you couldn't hurt yourself, [b]EVEN IF DURING THE ROUTINE YOU SET ABOUT TO DO SO[/b] then these accidents can happen. And if they [i]can[/i] happen, given enough shows, from enough performers, somewhere at some point they almost certainly will.

I don't own Scorpion but have handled one an am absolutely sure that I, or anyone that owned one, wouldn't want to experience their hand being forcefully slamed down onto it. Maybe I'm more of a wimp than Rick but for me that would constitute more than pin pricks.

I don't have anything against these sort of effects (although from a personal point of view I'd much rather stick with an 'accident proof' version of them such as my own Staple Gun Routine or, from what I understand, Jon's 'Pain Game' effect) I actually think that Scorpion is a great tool for pinning a theatrical story to for this kind of Russian Roulette effect. However I also believe that if there is a danger that you could accidently make a mistake and hurt yourself, even if through making a mistake, it's better to acknowledge this rather than pretending it can't possibly happen.

Also apologies to Jon for some what deviating from his thread.

Neal.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (May 6, 2009 01:11PM)
I watched the video and I'm certain that what you're getting for the money is much more than a nail and some blocks of wood. LOL, Jon, if it is what I think it is, it's genius! I'm still not sure about the price, but it's very clever ;)
Message: Posted by: JL608 (May 6, 2009 02:05PM)
Just received The Pain Game directly from Jon moments ago. Some brief comments...

It's an ingenious approach. Very clever thinking and the props are perfectly made.

The voucher for the free bottle of champagne was a nice touch as well.

Thanks Jon!

Joe
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 6, 2009 05:20PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 13:52, MagicbyCarlo wrote:
I love these type effects. I always ask though, why is the performer doing it?

Personally I use the SMASH AND STAB gimmick, I do it blindfolded. I like it. My personal feeling is that you must perform that version with clear purpose. Note the position of the spike and focus on the others. I spent a lot of time riding mountain bike on rough trails, you didn't focus on the obstacle, you focus on the path around the obstacle.

[/quote]

Carlo,

Your initial question is one that should be asked not just for this effect but all magic tricks in general.

I also love your analogy with bike riding. It's the same when vanishing a coin in that one should not think about hiding the coin but revealing the disappearance.

The Pain Game is not meant for casual performances but for a formal show. Like any prop, if it is something you are going to go out and perform, and make an integral part of your act, then it will be worth the money. Add to this the fact you have absolutely zilch to worry about with regards impaling yourself.
Message: Posted by: MagicbyCarlo (May 6, 2009 09:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-06 18:20, Jon Allen wrote:

Carlo,

Your initial question is one that should be asked not just for this effect but all magic tricks in general.

I also love your analogy with bike riding. It's the same when vanishing a coin in that one should not think about hiding the coin but revealing the disappearance.

The Pain Game is not meant for casual performances but for a formal show. Like any prop, if it is something you are going to go out and perform, and make an integral part of your act, then it will be worth the money. Add to this the fact you have absolutely zilch to worry about with regards impaling yourself.
[/quote]
Jon,

We're on the same page, this is certainly not ridiculously priced for a full time professional performer. There certainly is a value to having a 100% foolproof, safe yet convincing method; in addition to production costs, and R&D.

I can't wait to add it to my kids birthday party shows.
Just kidding! For my kid's shows I use a drugged gerbil and 3 Twinkies.
Message: Posted by: Scott Fridinger (May 6, 2009 09:27PM)
Sealegs--"
"No it isn't. Try reading the post 3 above your own."

OK, so is your routine on the market, so that we would know the method if purchased??

Additionally, I would consider a stable gun routine, where you have a device like a gun that you shoot into your head/hand in a slightly different genre then the spike/nail/cup roulette originally mentioned.

Look, if you have a sharp object that you are really using under a cup, there is always a chance you screw up. Shattered does not have that problem.

Second, a device such as a nail gun may be "configured" to not work, but if the same gun can also be used to work, you take the chance of either "forgetting" what to do, or face a mechanical failure.

Again, there is no mechanical failure with shattered.

I am glad YOUR gun is accident proof, and hope that it never fails you.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (May 7, 2009 05:31PM)
Dinger136,

I've made my routine available here on the Cafť free to anyone who PM'd me for it. So it's not exactly been on the market but I have put it out there. (or rather out here)and made it available to those that might follow threads on this kind of subject and so be interested.

However your post has made me reconsider giving it away for free anymore as you've made it apparent to me that in fact my thinking behind it is probably more significant than I'd given myself credit for.

For that I thank you.:)

Neal
Message: Posted by: Miraclemakers (May 7, 2009 10:27PM)
Real Danger by Aldo Colombini.
My Fave
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (May 7, 2009 10:35PM)
"Shattered is the ONLY safe way to do this effect"Hilarious I am so sure you are not aware of all methods for performing this effect, I have several of my own methods that I can guarantee are 100% fool proof, so sure that my 2 favorite methods can be done with an audience s?upplied blindfold & I do not have to fear injury, yet they both use a true knife or 6 inch nail. HMM Jon's routine looks very familiar?
Message: Posted by: JSBLOOM (May 8, 2009 09:04AM)
Kuffs has an interesting danger effect that is 100% safe, but no nails are used.
Message: Posted by: shpf100 (May 8, 2009 09:19AM)
I know this isn't a nail roulette routine but neither is shattered and it has been talked about.....so my favorite is Higley's traps-a-monte-mental. Fun, safe even if you forget.
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (May 8, 2009 12:01PM)
Kuffs marketed his version before Shattered hit the market.Same effect!
Message: Posted by: MagicDog (May 9, 2009 10:47AM)
If this would not be giving anything away, do you have to wear a jacket?

John
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (May 9, 2009 01:30PM)
Hi John,

No you do not need to wear a jacket.

Jon
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Jul 17, 2009 06:37PM)
I owned and performed Death Trap for a couple years before selling it. I am thinking about adding this type of effect to the show again but I would like to see better video of this routine. Is there any? The price is very dear.

Regards,
Will