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Topic: Lame dice question...
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Apr 16, 2008 09:09PM)
I have a die from the "reno hilton resort" (red). not sure when it is from. when looking at the four spot, in the middle there is a small indentation where another spot would be if it were a five. looking thru that indentation, I can see the letter "r" printed on the back of the middle of the 3 spot (if that makes sense).



can any of you vegas guys tell me what it is? just a code for the reno hilton, as opposed to l.v. or a.c?
I know its a worthless question, but I collect this kind of stuff, and the more informed, the better.

kevin
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Apr 16, 2008 11:41PM)
It is called a security code. The casinos do that to help prevent counterfiting and the ringing in of loaded dice.

The letters or numbers change periodically, so if someone switches in a loaded pair, they will know.

Since the letter or number is under the spot, it is harder to duplicate....

NOTE: The casino also pays attention to font and size so they know if someone changed dice. They also pay attention to the direction/orientation of the letter or number.

It is not a collectors item...sorry.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Apr 17, 2008 01:38AM)
Expert, thanks a lot for the info. I didn't think it was collectable, just wanted to know. and now I do.


thanks again, kevin
Message: Posted by: Mr. Z (Apr 17, 2008 05:57AM)
Yeah they have all those countermeasures but in reality, at least from my experience, whenever a die goes off the game all they worry about is if the serial number matches up. They're not examining font size and running the die through every test imaginable.

I was told early on that while it's possible to duplicate the logo and what not all the pros worried about was the serial number. I can see why.

I'd disagree with what Expertmagician said. I'm of the belief that gaffs can still be kicked-in and even left in for a decent period of time without much fear of detection from the crew and supervisors.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Apr 17, 2008 11:00AM)
Thanks for the post Z, I was hoping to get your 10 cents about this one. how often would you say that the floor checks the dice for the code?


kevin
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Apr 18, 2008 06:49AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-16 22:09, kcg5 wrote:
I have a die from the "reno hilton resort" (red). not sure when it is from. when looking at the four spot, in the middle there is a small indentation where another spot would be if it were a five. looking thru that indentation, I can see the letter "r" printed on the back of the middle of the 3 spot (if that makes sense).



can any of you vegas guys tell me what it is? just a code for the reno hilton, as opposed to l.v. or a.c?
I know its a worthless question, but I collect this kind of stuff, and the more informed, the better.

kevin
[/quote]
Hi Kevin, Im not a vegas guy, but I could answer some of your questions...The indentation on the 4 means the dice are cancelled... most casinos cancel dice on the 4 side, at least the ones I worked at...The "R" is another security feature... usually its the first letter of the casino and in your case, it is the Reno...Sometimes, they will use the first letter of the name of the corporation that owns the casino....If you look carefully, you might be able to find some other tiny marks on the dice that's not from the factory... :dizzy: Soem of the dicemen in here will know what I'm talking about.... As for the font size, the serial#, all it takes is a few minutes at the table to take a look and another half hour outside to stamp some bad dice to be brought in... all the security features is more of a deterent than a protective measure... just my 2 cents..



j
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Apr 18, 2008 08:28AM)
Iamslow,

Maybe I misunderstood....I thought he said that the security number was printed UNDER the spot (ie. inside of the die ?

If the number was stamped on the outside of the die...then it cound be a serial number and/or a canelation code so the dice can be sold to the public and can't be switched into a game.

Mr. Z,

I suspect that you could switch in dice and take a change that the stick man does not notice. As a matter of fact, it will likely pass (no pun intended). But, I would not risk getting caught ! It would be too easy to get nailed in my himble opinion...after all, I'm a card guy, not a dice guy...so I will defer to you dice experts :)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Apr 18, 2008 09:57AM)
Yes, serial numbers are usually on the outside. The Security mark that he's talking about would be under the spot where it couldn't be altered or duplicated readily. I doubt that the stick man would worry too much about the security mark, the games move too fast for that. But, I could be wrong. This is just from an observer, not a player.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Apr 18, 2008 10:03AM)
Iamslow and dave, thanks for your input. I have also been told that the floor will only check if the die have gone off the table. is this true?


kevin
Message: Posted by: silverking (Apr 18, 2008 11:53AM)
An experienced Stick or Box will check the dice whenever the "smell" at the table changes in a way they don't like.......and always when the dice hit the floor or leave their sight for too long.

The Floor has to be careful though (experience counts), as bringing out the tray for a dice swap at a smokin' hot and jam-packed table can bring the players wrath down on the Box, and may even result in a formal complaint to the Pit Boss.

Steve Forte's book will tell you all you need to know about dice at the Craps table.
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Apr 18, 2008 12:23PM)
Expert,

Who said anything about the stickman not noticing? He's the one we're gonna get to kick 'em in!

Jason
Message: Posted by: walking_liberty (Apr 18, 2008 01:20PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-18 13:23, JasonEngland wrote:
Expert,

Who said anything about the stickman not noticing? He's the one we're gonna get to kick 'em in!

Jason
[/quote]


Word
Message: Posted by: Expertmagician (Apr 19, 2008 10:56AM)
Jason,

:)

By the way, I'll be coming out to Vegas again in June. Maybe I'll see you again :)
I don't think I'll be renting a car this trip....but, I'll see.

PM me if you think getting together is OK with you.

Be well !