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Topic: Crystal Method - By Darius - Impossible signed card effects
Message: Posted by: Nechto (Apr 30, 2008 01:20PM)
Hey everyone,


I just thought I would let everyone get a sneak preview of an AWESOME effect, actually it is more a principle/new gaff/amazing concept type thing!

It is called CRYSTAL METHOD and has been devised by Darius, the product is being produced by the makers of the C.A.N.N.A.B.I.S. effect and will be available soon. CRYSTAL METHOD will allow you to move signatures from card to card, AND that is just the TIP OF THE ICEBERG! There are some amazing routines possible with this and here is the demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUti2YJ8e9M

Please remember this is only the beginning, there will be plenty of routines on the DVD by some great creators and magicians including amazing vanishes and a REALLY magical card to mouth routine. It is hard to picture but believe me it will all soon become VERY CLEAR!

Check out the demo watch this space http://www.crystalmethod.co.uk and enjoy!

Ben
Message: Posted by: rorythegreat (Apr 30, 2008 04:19PM)
Wow, the demo looks great. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Apr 30, 2008 07:30PM)
Ummm.. yeah.... wow.
Message: Posted by: Vaei (Apr 30, 2008 09:15PM)
Holy ****. I foresee some wonderful surrealistic effects.

Magician: "Could you draw a rabbit for me?"

6 y.o. draws a rabbit... which the magician turns into a sponge bunny (routine), and the multiplied bunny family ends up on the paper, original and magician-drawn together... wow.

And new twists on all those torn and restored routines!

I'm unclear on the technology, but it seems obvious [i]what[/i] it is. Can the prop be given out at the end for close scrutiny / keepsake? What sizes does the gimmick comes in? And, most importantly, when is it going to be released? :)
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (May 1, 2008 03:10AM)
Hi Vaei,

The product will be released in the next 4-6 weeks and should be available world-wide. We are negotiating with distributors at the moment.

There is far more scope for ideas than displayed on the trailer and we'll include a DVD with lots of ideas from many top magicians here in the UK. The DVD will be equally as good quality as our previous best-selling release The CANNABIS effect.

I myself have devised a fantastic card to mouth routine where the card is dropped in a pint of beer or water by the volunteer and visibly vanishes as it hits the drink. This is another application which will be on the DVD - I'm going to try and get a Youtube clip of me doing it so will post the link here shortly.

In some instances the gimmick is examinable and can be given away as a souvenir (you will be provided with ample to do this) - in others, not examinable however we've worked hard with guys to create routines that leave you clean at the end.

Given the hundreds of applications there will be for this the purpose of the DVD will be to create and inspire people to come up with their own ideas but to also provide some solid routines which leave you clean at the end.

Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (May 1, 2008 03:44AM)
Thanks Lee look foward to hearing more.
Message: Posted by: altrez (May 1, 2008 06:25AM)
I really like the looks of this effect. So clean...
Message: Posted by: mesmer (May 1, 2008 07:13AM)
Well.....here goes again....another reason to break my New Years Resolution of NOT buying anymore Magical Related stuff....Darn you!
Message: Posted by: ragingcalm (May 1, 2008 03:12PM)
What am I missing? They're just colour changes?
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 1, 2008 03:41PM)
For the "Right Signature, Wrong Card" effect, is that the spectator's signature?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 1, 2008 06:59PM)
Yes it is- one signature only! It blows em away- they can sign their card!
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (May 2, 2008 05:55AM)
Hi ragingcalm thanks for your observation. We've tried to be very respectful regarding exposure on Youtube hence why the trailer hopefully doesn't give away the whole method.

To this end, there are many applications we've been unable to put onto the trailer. Not all the applications for this effect are colour change type things but it was felt these were the most visual for the trailer. However, the card isn't actually changing, you are moving the spectators signature from one card to another. The instructional DVD will contain many ideas from some of the top names in close-up magic here in the UK. You can visibly remove signatures or allow a volunteer to drop their signed card into a drink only for it to completely vanish.

Crystal method can also be used to give you an instant duplicate of THEIR initialled signed card. There are several other ideas which we'll try and film as routines and post on Youtube shortly.

Thanks for all your feedback guys - have a great weekend.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 2, 2008 11:13AM)
Once you understand the secret, there is sooooo much you can do! The great thing is that the routines we have devised will allow cards to be handed out and everything will be clean!
This will come with a DVD packed full of lots of effects and this is an item you will use for every card performance its that powerful...
More news to follow shortly
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 2, 2008 01:49PM)
When will it be available?
Message: Posted by: jordanjohnson (May 2, 2008 01:54PM)
Can it be done with any sharpie or will we have to buy refills?
Message: Posted by: Vaei (May 2, 2008 03:31PM)
All the uses there is of it in Fraud! (And I mean the word literally and the Garcia sense) I'm going to keep my eyes peeled on this. The last little while I've just been thinking about all the things that one could do with this in conjunction to existing plots (Sankey's paperclipped comes to mind - imagine the card you've clipped was from a different deck :) )
Message: Posted by: Steve Dela (May 3, 2008 02:01PM)
Heya guys.

I helped to film some of the effects for the demo (I wear a lot of rings lol) all the effects are done without the use of duplicated signatures! everything can be done in real time and there are no camera edits!

Lee hathaway has come up with one of the most practical methods for duplicating a signature though! stunning tricks are possible! you can see the reactions on the demo and these are from english people!!! yeah getting english people to react like that is almost impossible!

There are some lovely visual effects possible with these gimicks and as soon as you get them your creative juices just start flowing!

Steve Dela
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 5, 2008 02:48PM)
When I first played around with CRYSTAL METHod I could see its potential. Why did I not think of it first I thought? You can do so much with it which gives it great value.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: wise owl (May 5, 2008 03:50PM)
How much for the DVD?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 5, 2008 06:02PM)
Both the special Crystal method and the DVD will be coming together.
The DVD will be filled with great routines including a new card from mouth effect and loads of signed card ideas.
It will give every viewer the potential to create loads of their own routines.
Price will be around 20 pounds ;-) Will be out in around a month..
We will also be hosting a blogg site http://www.crystalmethod.co.uk allowing people to add effects they have devised with this special device.
Thanks for the kind words Angelo ;-)
Message: Posted by: Xtasy0 (May 5, 2008 08:36PM)
I was thinking about this lastnight...could this be used as an extra convincer for a forgotten card routine (like glemme or something along those lines). allow spec to choose a card, get them to sign it and memorize it, show the audience the signed card and then induce amnesia in your spec and ask them to recall the card they recall the wrong card and then for the kicker you could show them clearly that their signature is on the card that you showed the audience which is not the card the spec remembered...
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (May 5, 2008 08:36PM)
LOL, what's with you guys and naming your effects after illegal drugs?


Looks great though, I will be picking this up.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 5, 2008 09:11PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 21:36, Magikrn wrote:
LOL, what's with you guys and naming your effects after illegal drugs?
[/quote]

Well, I know I'm getting a craving to buy this... and having withdrawal symptoms after watching the demo...

C'MON SELL IT TO ME ALREADY.... ARGGGHHHH I'M SEEING BABIES CRAWLING ON THE CIELING... C'MON MAN
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 5, 2008 10:49PM)
I know that many people say that an effect should not be released for being too good. I am kind of worried about this being the epitome of that mentality.

That is, what is left to be truly impossible with card magic now if we can create an identical duplicate signed card?

Mind you I have developed my own methods for accomplishing, essentially, all of the things being shown by the Crystal METHod, like Forgery, which has a similar effect to that first change shown on the demo, (this is not a plug) and my own method for obtaining duplicate signatures (which is NOT what Forgery does, just for clarification) but they are not perfect.

That is, my methods for duplicate signature, similar to the method of making a signature get wiped off a card and having it signed again to create a duplicate (although my methods are quite different from this) the end results will not be identical, but it seems that the Crystal METHod WILL accomplish an identical duplication of a signature, as well as so much more.

Once this is out there, Pandora's box will have been opened.

Of course the same could be said when magicians first started tearing off corners to imply a unique card, and then methods for working with which allowed for a dup came about, they are now common amongst magicians.

Really though, I would imagine the only down fall of this will be that we will no longer be able to fool magicians with signed cards anymore. Oh well. :D :P
Message: Posted by: dot (May 6, 2008 02:35AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 21:36, Magikrn wrote:
LOL, what's with you guys and naming your effects after illegal drugs?
[/quote]

That cracks me up and I'm no dope, I like the blow by blow account of this effect and I regard it high-ly. I will do this trick after stoned purse or coin in coke can while injecting much humour. time for my medication!!

this looks stunning.

dot
Message: Posted by: broothal (May 6, 2008 04:27AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 23:49, gdw wrote:

Really though, I would imagine the only down fall of this will be that we will no longer be able to fool magicians with signed cards anymore. Oh well. :D :P
[/quote]

Actually, what happens when this is exposed on "Masked Magician does Dallas" and all our future spectators will explain every signed card with "It's a dupe!" ?
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (May 6, 2008 06:46AM)
The one thing good about Magic, is that nothing is ever quite finished...i can't think of a single plot that someone has thought 'I can't change this, or add anything to it'...that isn't to say tricks need or require changing or adding to, but everyone performs in different environments to different people, so they create, vary, change, add etc to suit their needs. So I can only imagine what will be next after this! Looking forward to it
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 6, 2008 08:40AM)
Actually, I am really looking forward to this as I needed this sort of effect to enhance a Cronenberg Fly card sorting routine (really!)... heck, this will be great for it!!!!

C'mon, if anyone has pity, let me pilot it for ya and I'll pay in advance :P (c'mon I'm fiending)
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 6, 2008 12:17PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-06 05:27, broothal wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-05 23:49, gdw wrote:

Really though, I would imagine the only down fall of this will be that we will no longer be able to fool magicians with signed cards anymore. Oh well. :D :P
[/quote]

Actually, what happens when this is exposed on "Masked Magician does Dallas" and all our future spectators will explain every signed card with "It's a dupe!" ?
[/quote]

Then we'll move to the torn corner plot, and THAT will be the convincer that it is not a signed dup. The tables will turn once again.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (May 6, 2008 05:06PM)
I don't think the tables will turn. I don't think the torn corner will ever be a convicer these days, people are more demanding than decades ago with the torn corner. Everytime you try to use a personal cheque to purchase something, you are then given the third degree, 'Can I also see a credit card and drivers license' etc, and also has to be a picture ID with name, address, date of birth etc. If you go into a bar, try and buy cigarettes, rent a DVD etc you have to produce ID, so every day in our lives, we have to give proof! We have to prove everything of our lives every day. People are routinely questioned and made to prove things over and over again, and this applies to Magic and getting cards signed. If you are going to have a card selected, have it signed, as that is proof, however, don't take it too far that it takes out of the ordinary and expected, making it seem like a trick, but keep in in realism to where it can still be seen as Magic.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 7, 2008 04:52AM)
Yes- you could use this item for signed cards with torn corners and then jump the signature to a completely new card if you wanted..

Also- wicked effect- imagine asking someone to select a card and sign it, then someone else merely names any card in the deck, the card is secretly culled and then produced with the original persons signature on it!

Nuts!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 7, 2008 09:18AM)
Heck, if this is what I think it is - don't limit yourself to cards... heck, I can finally do wild OTL stuff without the stupid band!

Did I mention I would be happy to pilot some stuff ;)


Drool
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (May 7, 2008 10:28AM)
Re: not limiting ourselves to cards... Ben, can you give us some idea how applicable this is to non-playing-card surfaces?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 7, 2008 05:58PM)
Although some easy modification can be done, you're right- can be done with credit cards, business cards etc very easily

Bare in mind lots of options and creativity can be done with cards...
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (May 7, 2008 06:18PM)
After re-reading this thread I am slightly confused.... Will crystal method allow us to DUPLICATE a signiture onto another card, or TRANSFER the signiture?
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 7, 2008 10:42PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-06 18:06, Christopher Williams wrote:
I don't think the tables will turn. I don't think the torn corner will ever be a convicer these days, people are more demanding than decades ago with the torn corner. Everytime you try to use a personal cheque to purchase something, you are then given the third degree, 'Can I also see a credit card and drivers license' etc, and also has to be a picture ID with name, address, date of birth etc. If you go into a bar, try and buy cigarettes, rent a DVD etc you have to produce ID, so every day in our lives, we have to give proof! We have to prove everything of our lives every day. People are routinely questioned and made to prove things over and over again, and this applies to Magic and getting cards signed. If you are going to have a card selected, have it signed, as that is proof, however, don't take it too far that it takes out of the ordinary and expected, making it seem like a trick, but keep in in realism to where it can still be seen as Magic.
[/quote]

I guess that explains why we NEVER do an effect with a card NOT signed, just chosen. People would NEVER accept that the card we find is the same one they chose if it was never altered in any way.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 7, 2008 10:44PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-07 05:52, ziatabari wrote:
Yes- you could use this item for signed cards with torn corners and then jump the signature to a completely new card if you wanted..

Also- wicked effect- imagine asking someone to select a card and sign it, then someone else merely names any card in the deck, the card is secretly culled and then produced with the original persons signature on it!

Nuts!
[/quote]

But will the named, culled card with the signature, be examinable?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 8, 2008 10:22AM)
Crystal method allows 2 things

One is the transfer of one signature to another card, with no duplicates needed.

The second is the ability to make an immediate duplicate of a signed card.

Both are v easy to do and will not be detected.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (May 8, 2008 05:52PM)
So I'm thinking..... one way forcing deck and the ULTIMATE ACR haha. Is this possible?
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (May 8, 2008 06:37PM)
I just thought I'd point out that there are other applications for Crystal Method as well as stuff using signed cards. I've created a brilliant card to mouth routine utilising Crystal Method...infact I just got back from an Indian restaurant in town with Darius and a load of the guys who are working on the effect and we totally FLOORED the waiters with the card to mouth routine!!

So, just to detract slightly...there are several other applications and routines which will appear on the DVD in addition to the signed card stuff.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 8, 2008 09:07PM)
Hey, can you transfer the signature to naan bread or a pompadon????? (Ok, sorry, I think I'm high on CRYSTAL METHod)
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 12, 2008 07:46AM)
Maybe you should buy some C.A.N.N.A.B.I.S effect to calm you down from the Crystal method then..
Message: Posted by: Doomo (May 12, 2008 02:33PM)
So has anyone besides Ziatbari actually used one of these?
Message: Posted by: Nechto (May 12, 2008 06:03PM)
Ziatabari is actually Darius - the creator of the effect.

A few of his close friends have the effect and are performing it, but only a select few!
Message: Posted by: Doomo (May 13, 2008 12:28AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-12 19:03, Nechto wrote:
Ziatabari is actually Darius - the creator of the effect.

A few of his close friends have the effect and are performing it, but only a select few!
[/quote]

So in other words.... no, no one besides the creator. That is what I thought...This is starting to look familiar.
Message: Posted by: gdw (May 13, 2008 12:53AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-13 01:28, Doomo wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-12 19:03, Nechto wrote:
Ziatabari is actually Darius - the creator of the effect.

A few of his close friends have the effect and are performing it, but only a select few!
[/quote]

So in other words.... no, no one besides the creator. That is what I thought...This is starting to look familiar.
[/quote]

Um, did you just not read the post?
Message: Posted by: Nechto (May 13, 2008 01:24AM)
Hey Glenn,

That is what I thought too! Hmmm!
Message: Posted by: Y2John (May 13, 2008 06:27AM)
Wow... this sounds really useful, and if it's as is being said, it will enable some amazing things.

So does the card (or what ever your doing) end completely examinable, with them being able to take it away to keep?

Think of the ways this cold be used for mentalism style routines/effects... like drawing dupes etc... and what about billet routines, like never needing to have they're billet at any point from after they have written something down... will things like this be possible?

Anyway, it's sounding real good.
Message: Posted by: Piz (May 13, 2008 07:22AM)
Whats the release date again? I need my fix, having withdrawls.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 13, 2008 09:09AM)
I also have this trick and have been playing with it to come up with routines. So it is being beta tested so to speak. I have a few routines which may be on the DVD. It is not just a trick with signatures.

One idea is you show four of a kind say the four '4s'. One of them is FREELY nominated and shown to be the only 4 with a large 'tick' DRAWN on its face, while the remaining three cards have a 'cross' drawn on its face. At the end of the routine, all the cards can be examined.

So much can be done with this principle.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (May 13, 2008 05:06PM)
Angelo has some great ideas using Crystal Method.

There will also be contributions from many top guys here in the UK.

......James Brown (international close-up comp runner up 2006, Magic Circle Magician of the Year) has devised some effects using Crystal Method which will hopefully be featured on the DVD....

how @!:"$:% cool is that????
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 14, 2008 07:56AM)
The Crystal Method pre-order site has just come live...

More info will be added but we are taking pre-orders for this effect- you get the special items all in a box and a DVD with a selection of great minds on it..

http://magiccave.co.uk/inside/crystal-method-p-16971.html
Message: Posted by: Magic Phenom (May 14, 2008 11:19AM)
Wow just watched the demo and I have no clue how that's possible. Definately buying this. Great work
Message: Posted by: wise owl (May 14, 2008 02:01PM)
Will they be available at HP?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 14, 2008 05:36PM)
Discussing with a number of large wholesalers at mo on exclusivity, but it will be available HP, yes.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (May 14, 2008 05:55PM)
[quote]Crystal method allows 2 things

One is the transfer of one signature to another card, with no duplicates needed.

The second is[b] the ability to make an immediate duplicate of a signed card[/b].[/quote]

[quote]Create duplicate [b]initialed[/b] cards [/quote] <- From the preorder page.

Can we get some clarification here please? Can we create duplicate signitures or only initials?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 15, 2008 06:34PM)
Can duplicate both signatures and initials
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (May 15, 2008 06:59PM)
Nice thanks for the response. Was slightly worried for a second ;)
Message: Posted by: DSmagic (May 15, 2008 07:52PM)
Lee I'm expecting to see this in person next time I'm around
Message: Posted by: wise owl (May 15, 2008 11:33PM)
How long it takes to duplicate a signature? and is it repeatable (ie, setup is small)?

For example, if I want to do a card thru window with the signed card; is it possible?
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (May 17, 2008 06:32PM)
I am also thinking about the famous signed card to impossible location. Like card in bottle for instance. Let's say you get the dupe in the start of the set. Then by misdirection or by excusing yourself, plants it somewhere impossible. When you come back you can then continue with the other signed card, and rip it up or make it disappear for the final revelation.

Is that possible through the crystal method? Without the spectator knowing that their signature was duplicated of course.

It's just that there have been so many signature moving gaffs around recently, and I don't find any of them practical.
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (May 17, 2008 11:26PM)
Wow, I have been looking for something like this for a long time. I even worked on my own method, however it never looked right. The price is almost 50 dollars shipped to the united states, so my question is will this be available from dealers in the states?

Sickmagic!
Message: Posted by: Magic Spank (May 18, 2008 12:15AM)
I'm preparing myself for another severe blow to the deceptive ad portion of my brain.

Why wouldn't the demo show the spec signing the card? To me that's a crucial point, at least I'd like to see it before plopping down 50 dollars.

Why has the magic marketplace been reduced to take the money and run? Where are the actual demo's, without editing? Show me the darn trick straight through so I can decide if I want it or don't show me at all!

And my last critical comment will be....

Can we refrain from naming tricks after drugs that destroy lives? Does anyone actually find that amusing? Hey kids.... want to buy some CRYSTAL METHod? how about a Cannabis card trick? No? Well then WTF? That's a card trick too apparently.

I may be alone here but I find that trend pathetic and embarrasing.
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (May 18, 2008 12:40AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-18 01:15, Magic Spank wrote:
I'm preparing myself for another severe blow to the deceptive ad portion of my brain.

Why wouldn't the demo show the spec signing the card? To me that's a crucial point, at least I'd like to see it before plopping down 50 dollars.

Why has the magic marketplace been reduced to take the money and run? Where are the actual demo's, without editing? Show me the darn trick straight through so I can decide if I want it or don't show me at all!

And my last critical comment will be....

Can we refrain from naming tricks after drugs that destroy lives? Does anyone actually find that amusing? Hey kids.... want to buy some CRYSTAL METHod? how about a Cannabis card trick? No? Well then WTF? That's a card trick too apparently.

I may be alone here but I find that trend pathetic and embarrasing.
[/quote]

While I understand your points about editing, however the bottom line is the effect and not the method. As long as the method is workable then why does it matter if it is not in the demo. If you watch a demo that is not edited it would be easy for magicians to figure things out, so in a way this is protecting the creation.

As for the naming of the tricks with drug references, I personally don't care, however I can understand some people would be bothered by this. I personally feel that as an adult it is our responsibility to educate kids from right and wrong and with this it would be a matter of educating. It isn't embarrassing or pathetic to me only because I use right judgment when I read or buy something and that is were the education comes in. I feel that the biggest problem in this art lately is that people are just putting out so much material that it is hard to help young magicians because their overloaded with new material daily and then they miss the point on learning how to become a good entertainer and focusing the overall package.

I am very blue humor when I perform and I don't expect everyone else to perform the way I do, however I respect those that are traditional in values and in performance style. We should judge based on actual facts and not on words or appearances. This of course is just my opinion.

This looks like a great effect and I personally don't care what the method is as long as it is workable and isn't laced with actual drugs!

Sickmagic!
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 23, 2008 01:14PM)
I really like the look of this but I agree with the comments above, just show us the demo from start to finish, if the gimmick etc is that good we will buy it.

I spoke to a dealer the other day and asked how Enilighenment was going, he said it went well on preorder, but would not recommend now he has seen it!!!

Is the magic market hyping us, taking our money and running, it looks like it, I hope its not a new/ old trend?

Steve Della has done some work with this which gives me some hope as I hope he would only be involved with something good!

I you want my money in advance show me what it it or at least a proper demo, would you buy a new "anything" for $50 without going into a shop and seeing it or at least know what you were buying?

Why should magic be any different, if a method is that obvious that we can figure it out by watching, then it can't be that new or good?

If it works with a fab new gimmick then we can't copy it anyway so show us a full demo.

I love keeping up to date with whats new but this hype and let down is becoming all to frequent how can some people sleep at night?

I'm not saying this will be a let down lets hope not, some good new stuff does come out every now and then.

I also think tricks should at least tell us a few things it is, not what its not e.g no rough and smooth, no I.T. etc!

Is it instant reset, is it suitable for table hopping, parlour or both, how hard is it and the sleights required. This way I sure there will be more happy customers.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (May 28, 2008 02:51AM)
We're lucky to have Steve Della involved, sharing his ideas behind the Crystal Method. We also have a number of top magicians on the DVD.
As far as crappy gimmicky stuff, we're so confident of this product being so versatile and a catalyst for creativity that we are discussing with Geni magazine to include one crystal method with every July copy.
This is a v easy method that can create new miracles with cards- the product will be fully available with DVD from 26th June 2008.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (May 28, 2008 05:51AM)
Hey, foget Genii - supply one with every Linking Ring, wouldja :)?
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (May 28, 2008 03:54PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-23 14:14, themagiczone wrote:
I really like the look of this but I agree with the comments above, just show us the demo from start to finish, if the gimmick etc is that good we will buy it.

I spoke to a dealer the other day and asked how Enilighenment was going, he said it went well on preorder, but would not recommend now he has seen it!!!

Is the magic market hyping us, taking our money and running, it looks like it, I hope its not a new/ old trend?

Steve Della has done some work with this which gives me some hope as I hope he would only be involved with something good!

I you want my money in advance show me what it it or at least a proper demo, would you buy a new "anything" for $50 without going into a shop and seeing it or at least know what you were buying?

Why should magic be any different, if a method is that obvious that we can figure it out by watching, then it can't be that new or good?

If it works with a fab new gimmick then we can't copy it anyway so show us a full demo.

I love keeping up to date with whats new but this hype and let down is becoming all to frequent how can some people sleep at night?

I'm not saying this will be a let down lets hope not, some good new stuff does come out every now and then.

I also think tricks should at least tell us a few things it is, not what its not e.g no rough and smooth, no I.T. etc!

Is it instant reset, is it suitable for table hopping, parlour or both, how hard is it and the sleights required. This way I sure there will be more happy customers.
[/quote]

While I sympathise with you over the problems inherent with a bodge it and scarper industry I do find it equally strange that we are now insisting on full view demo's. Close up magic can rarely survive the scrutiny of the camera. The idea that if a method is obvious for the camera then it is rubbish is idiotic to say the least.

A few years ago we didn't have the luxury of such accessible media. Books were all the rage. You had to read it from cover to cover to get the good stuff out. No chance of a sneak preview.

Feel free to wait for this to be released. No-one is holding a gun to your head to pre order. If you decide it's not you then don't buy it!

If RK decides to include this in Genii then maybe the hype is deserved? Truth is, this might be the best thing ever for some and completely useless for others... to make any !@#umption prematurely would be... well premature.

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 28, 2008 04:02PM)
Agree totally. The reason why full demos are not always shown is because we have the oportunity to review over and over again and deconstruct the trick and work out the method. In the real world, spectators are misdirected with patter, gestures and actions. They never see the whole picture. So the graphic inserts and editing is the video version of spectator's misdirection. Its only fair to the creator of the trick to protect somewhat the product

Angelo
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (May 28, 2008 04:06PM)
Just imagine how strong some Torn and Restored cards now really can be...
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (May 28, 2008 06:07PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-28 17:06, Christopher Williams wrote:
Just imagine how strong some Torn and Restored cards now really can be...
[/quote]
That is true. If it is possible to dublicate signatures on the fly with this method. It is still a bit vague for me, as we see in the demo only the signature being switched.
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 29, 2008 04:37AM)
I don't disagree with your comments regarding demos.

The problem is that too many effects promise the earth and are then totally unworkable.

I tend to buy only at conventions or dealer dem's at least that way you see them performed in real time.

All these flash videos with endless cuts turn me off straight away.

Alakazam's own demos are some of the best, just 2 guys sitting down at a table.

Yes you can see what they are doing if you know what to look for, but its by no meens abvious to a lay person that may see it over and over.

With these you can evealuate a trick not buy and regret!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 1, 2008 03:24AM)
The effect looks great. The name is horrible. While I'm not one to usually delve into being politically correct, this is an exception.

With Crystal Meth being one of the largest growing drug epidemics in the US to hit the streets and destroy lives, why would play on drug names being used as a product incentive or play on words? Drugs are a huge society problem and these effects seem to mock the serious issues that young people and society face.

The marketing ploy is a turn off and revolting. I personally wouldn't support anyones work that takes such a dim view at a drug that destroys lives.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 1, 2008 04:10AM)
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the method of the effect might put the name in a different context (?). Personally I couldn't care less about the name. It's not as though it has anything actually to do with the drug.
It's just a word, replace it with jsfnbsfjg I don't see what difference it makes.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 1, 2008 04:30AM)
No the name is very much in context of the drug, Crystal METH. You ignorance and arrogance to a rising society killer of the young pretty much shows how little you care about a crisis that drug related in the US and spreading as quickly as aids. It's a play on words with a killer drug and has everything to do with it.

**** poor marketing technique and lack of responsibilty for public awareness.
Message: Posted by: Amiable (Jun 1, 2008 12:19PM)
Yes, reading this thread really make me re-think if I want to be a magician. They are vile and socially irresponsible. You don't realize how much they burden the good green earth.

Magicians promote [b]gambling[/b] by excessively using playing cards,
promote [b]materialism[/b] by spurring a fascination with coins and money,
promote [b]violence[/b] by catching bullets and sawing people in half,
promote [b]promiscuous sex[/b] disguised as so-called Bunnies, and now they
promote [b]drugs[/b] by the choice of name for a method (which the audience never knows)

I'm going right away to tip off the cops on the next magic circle meeting. Such lack of responsibility for social awareness must not be tolerated!

----

Now that we've established how awful and vile the name of the effect is... isn't it about time that it's released? :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 1, 2008 01:28PM)
Well, I still will be buying the effect but Mad Jake's point is a good one and should not be scoffed at i.e. depends if you believe we are all somehow responsible for helping society.

It is good he raised it for our reflections.

As for playing cards...
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 1, 2008 02:00PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 05:30, Mad Jake wrote:
No the name is very much in context of the drug, Crystal METH. You ignorance and arrogance to a rising society killer of the young pretty much shows how little you care about a crisis that drug related in the US and spreading as quickly as aids. It's a play on words with a killer drug and has everything to do with it.

**** poor marketing technique and lack of responsibilty for public awareness.
[/quote]

I agree 100%. I'd like to know what the purpose of the inventor/marketer is naming the effect this way? Naming his card effect CANNABIS it already tells you that there is an affinity for drug related names. What will be the next one? HEROINstant?
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 1, 2008 02:02PM)
As for the method... it could very well be revolutionary and spice up signed card effcts. Can the duplicate be handed out? I guess it can.
Message: Posted by: Amiable (Jun 1, 2008 02:41PM)
In a utilitarian calculation, I just don't see anyone getting hurt by his choice of name for the method. This is the name of the method, for crying out loud, that only magicians will see. I just can't see a worker getting this, and say, "oh, this is such a good trick. I wonder if I should start taking crystal meth because the effect is so named?"

As to being insensitive to the plight of crystal meth users and their families, I think that is a fair point. However, I'd (and have had) pointed out that very few human phenomena could be interpreted unambiguously - feminists have complained about "sawing in halves" promote treating women as objects, gambling routines as gambling promotion. Those are effects [i]presented[/i] as such, to a much wider audience than there is of magicians; the impact or evils of naming a method is slight in comparison.

I'm guessing that the authors were giddy about how they fitted "Card at any number" to CANNIBIS, and when a method involving "crystal clear sheets" come out (with disorienting effects), they decide to make it a series by naming it Crystal Method. I still think it's a sticker ;)
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 1, 2008 03:03PM)
Why name an effect and put the attraction the name of a drug that is destroying people quicker than Herion? It's insensitive and irresponsible as I stated before. The effect directly relates itself to the drugs name and the creator seems to think that catchy names refering to illicit, poisinous drugs is a good marketing ploy.

A majority of todays up and coming performers are young teenagers, why even imprint the fact you would associate your product with such things?

Again, it's not the name Crystal Method, it refers directly to Crystal METH with the caps. It's emphasizing the drug. I've lost several friends to this monster and yes I am very sensative to the subject, but at the same time I'm very sensative naming any of the thousands of products we release and market.

Magic has already started to take a dark plunge with effects of self mutilation, ripping out eyeballs and now drug related names for effects.

Yeah the future of magic is looking bright, but this just takes away from it and it's a shame to see talent resort to this type of hype and marketing.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 1, 2008 04:44PM)
Tell me Mad Jake, are you actually mad? There are many people out there who have lost themselves to mental illnesses and many familys which have suffered because of a member with a mental illness.

[quote]You ignorance and arrogance to a rising society killer of the young pretty much shows how little you care about a crisis that drug related in the US and spreading as quickly as aids[/quote]

Your disregard to a huge tragedy in society that affects people of all ages shows how little you care about a mental crisis that affects a huge portion of society.


Now honestly, I don't't care that you have Mad in your name. But if you are going to make an argument against this name, please, follow the argument to its logical conclusion don't just stop to prove your point. Everything which can have a negative connotation should be attacked as Amiable pointed out so well.

[quote] No the name is very much in context of the drug [/quote]
Can you please explain how the effect relates IN ANYWAY to the drug other than in name.

I'm not sure why you're attacking me, I was simply giving my imput. I'm not looking for a fight here, just a discussion. Please understand that I am not condoning the drug and I do understand its huge problem in society and I'm sorry that you know people who are involved with it.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 1, 2008 05:12PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 17:44, Verifythisnow wrote:
Tell me Mad Jake, are you actually mad? There are many people out there who have lost themselves to mental illnesses and many familys which have suffered because of a member with a mental illness.

[quote]You ignorance and arrogance to a rising society killer of the young pretty much shows how little you care about a crisis that drug related in the US and spreading as quickly as aids[/quote]

Your disregard to a huge tragedy in society that affects people of all ages shows how little you care about a mental crisis that affects a huge portion of society.


Now honestly, I don't't care that you have Mad in your name. But if you are going to make an argument against this name, please, follow the argument to its logical conclusion don't just stop to prove your point. Everything which can have a negative connotation should be attacked as Amiable pointed out so well.

[quote] No the name is very much in context of the drug [/quote]
Can you please explain how the effect relates IN ANYWAY to the drug other than in name.

I'm not sure why you're attacking me, I was simply giving my imput. I'm not looking for a fight here, just a discussion. Please understand that I am not condoning the drug and I do understand its huge problem in society and I'm sorry that you know people who are involved with it.
[/quote]

Your false sense of caring is about as sickening as the name of the effect. There is no Justification in a marketing ploy that indicates illicit or illegal drug use and it's not good for magic. A majority of the visitors here are younger children and adults.

The creator seems to have a trend starting and thinks he can use the drug related names to be effective while they are nothing more than incidious.

You childish attempt to distract the thread with a possible mental illness is just justifiable as Crystal METH.

Quite frankly, the name of the effect is a disgrace to Magic. Yes, it makes me MAD to see crap like this as it gives magic a bad name and again shows that the creator is trying to market with the idea of what is popular drug abuse by both young adults and youths.

You can make fun of me and throw the light off subject at hand by suggesting my mental state. But again, out of 1000 products we've produced we have not found it necessary to relate our products to illicit drugs.

Agai, the creator is indeed creative, but a trend appears when he is naming his effects after drugs, is he on Meth or Weed?

You say you're not looking for a fight, well stop making silly accusations about my mental state. I think I'm stable enough to run a company that is the 2nd largest US producer in professional magic without taking my state of mind into consideration.

Jake
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 1, 2008 05:29PM)
Jake, I apologise, it seems you took my comments the wrong way.
I was not making accusations about your mental state, merely pointing out that the name of something doesn't always make reference to its content. Your username is called Mad Jake, but I do not think you are making fun of people with mental illness, in the same way this effect is called CRYSTAL METhod and I do not think it has anything to do with the drug, or is making fun of a bad thing.

I wish you would stop attacking me and attack the arguments. I do not want to derail this thread, so I will not comment on this particular happening again. If you wish to discuss this further then PM me, otherwise lets just leave it at this.
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 1, 2008 07:05PM)
The 2nd largest producer of magic in the US? A drug which is spreading as quickly as Aids? Destroying people quicker than Heroin?

Before I can even begin to respond to your ridiculous arguements would you mind citing exactly where you get your "facts" from?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 2, 2008 12:20AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-01 04:24, Mad Jake wrote:
The effect looks great. The name is horrible. While I'm not one to usually delve into being politically correct, this is an exception.

With Crystal Meth being one of the largest growing drug epidemics in the US to hit the streets and destroy lives, why would play on drug names being used as a product incentive or play on words? Drugs are a huge society problem and these effects seem to mock the serious issues that young people and society face.

The marketing ploy is a turn off and revolting. I personally wouldn't support anyones work that takes such a dim view at a drug that destroys lives.

Jake
[/quote]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you do NOT drink Coke, or support anyone who does?

You should also realize that you discussing it as much as you are does nothing BUT promote and support the product.
'Don't care what they say, just spell my name right' and all.

If you really want to get up in arms about things like this, take it out on ALL the products, magic and not, that play on the edgy.

I think naming an effect "Stigmata" is more offensive. Playing on, what some consider, a religious miracle, and making "entertainment" out of it.

What's next, and effect called "Jihad?"
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 2, 2008 12:58AM)
Coke doesn't kill people and is far away to be connected to or even sound like Cocaine even thou it was once part of the recipe...

What Jake means is that the creator just didn't name his effect simply Crystal Method but rather CRYSTAL METHod and that in my opinion is WRONG and clearly implicating the drug. Why did he name is prior effect CANNABIS? Don't tell me he didn't know what it meant and that it is the 'only' and 'appropriate' name for it. The only individuals who do this are either irresponsible and very immature or are using the drug themselves.
There is no other 'healthy' explanation for this 'word play'. Why not call it crystal clear or clear method?

My two cents on this.
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Jun 2, 2008 06:46AM)
If his goal was stirring up message board chatter by choosing a controversial name, mission accomplished.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 2, 2008 07:45AM)
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Jihad
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 2, 2008 09:03AM)
Yes I can see why now he would want to associate the trick with Crystal METH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXcx6yeZ6yI&watch_response
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 2, 2008 10:58AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-02 01:58, Silvio Solaris wrote:
Coke doesn't kill people and is far away to be connected to or even sound like Cocaine even thou it was once part of the recipe...

What Jake means is that the creator just didn't name his effect simply Crystal Method but rather CRYSTAL METHod and that in my opinion is WRONG and clearly implicating the drug. Why did he name is prior effect CANNABIS? Don't tell me he didn't know what it meant and that it is the 'only' and 'appropriate' name for it. The only individuals who do this are either irresponsible and very immature or are using the drug themselves.
There is no other 'healthy' explanation for this 'word play'. Why not call it crystal clear or clear method?

My two cents on this.
[/quote]

Um, "coke" does kill, and "coke" is to cocaine as crystal meth is to meth amphetamines.

But to argue Coke doesn't kill people, while neither does Crystal METHod.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 2, 2008 02:24PM)
Are you telling me that Coke is as much an illicit drug as methamphetamine is?
Even thou it is not good for your body I haven't seen people die from it like Crystal Meth.

The word Coke has other definitions like: a solid carbonaceous residue derived from destructive distillation of coal. Crystal Meth has NO other definitions and could not mean anything else.

The example you are trying to state should be: Coca / crystal meth

I still think it is wrong no matter what kind of excuses there are for naming the effect this way. Period.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 2, 2008 02:28PM)
It's a shame because the effect is actually really cool. There is no need to give it a controversial name so people pay attention to it.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 2, 2008 06:10PM)
People have been OD'ing on coke for years, and no, coca would not be the appropriate comparison, as cocaine is very clearly and commonly known as "coke" just the same as meth amphetamine is known as Crystal Meth.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 2, 2008 09:56PM)
It's still lame to compare Coke which is also a soft drink to crystal meth which is just that. There is no other definition or product for 'Crystal Meth'.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 3, 2008 01:15AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-02 22:56, Silvio Solaris wrote:
It's still lame to compare Coke which is also a soft drink to crystal meth which is just that. There is no other definition or product for 'Crystal Meth'.
[/quote]

But there IS, the very one we are talking about.

That's just what I am saying.

To complain about a "product" called "Crystal METHod," is no different than to complain about a product called "Coke."

Both are street names for serious drugs, and both are ALSO names of products. ALSO, both products got their names FROM their respective name sake drugs.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 3, 2008 01:38AM)
OK, can we now have some useful discussion on the 'Impossible signed card effects' By Darius? Thank you. :)

[quote]
On 2008-05-23 14:14, themagiczone wrote:
I you want my money in advance show me what it is or at least a proper demo, would you buy a new "anything" for $50 without going into a shop and seeing it or at least know what you were buying?
[/quote]

Is it possible to see an unedited demo of the effect as seen by the spectator(s)???

No? :(

Thanks anyway!

:xmas:
 
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (Jun 3, 2008 01:41AM)
Actually Coke(the drink) had a small amount of cocaine in it when it was first produced. Before people say anything about this here is a source proving the point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola with the facts about Coke(the drink) it has been linked to other issues even after the cocaine has been taken out. With this said, I am trying to point out that not all things are what they seem and if you are an individual who thinks it is unethical because of children, then most things in this world are unethical! Also I personally believe it is the parents responsibility to educate the child from right and wrong. This is much more than an issue with Coke(the drink) and Crystal Meth the trick, this is an issue with society and Social problems.

In my opinion this is not something that should even be discussed on these boards, however this is a public place and we all have the right to discuss it.

I wish everyone would leave the title of the trick alone and focus on the effect! It is for sure one effect that is devastating and looks like it will be a huge success.

On another note, I opened up Forgery for the first time in a while and started to play with it, the effect can be done with forgery and does look good(real good), but if this is as clean as it seems it for sure will be a great addition. Heck combining forgery and this might be a real shocker!

Sickmagic!
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 3, 2008 09:48AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 02:41, sickmagic wrote:
On another note, I opened up Forgery for the first time in a while and started to play with it, the effect can be done with forgery and does look good(real good), but if this is as clean as it seems it for sure will be a great addition. [b][i]Heck combining forgery and this might be a real shocker![/i][/b]
[/quote]

Hmmm! That is worth giving it a thought.

Thanks Sickmagic!

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 3, 2008 12:13PM)
If this will work in conjunction with Forgery, that'd be great, if it is able to replace it . . .


I really shouldn't even be thinking that, lol.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 3, 2008 07:12PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 02:15, gdw wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-02 22:56, Silvio Solaris wrote:
It's still lame to compare Coke which is also a soft drink to crystal meth which is just that. There is no other definition or product for 'Crystal Meth'.
[/quote]

But there IS, the very one we are talking about.

That's just what I am saying.

To complain about a "product" called "Crystal METHod," is no different than to complain about a product called "Coke."

Both are street names for serious drugs, and both are ALSO names of products. ALSO, both products got their names FROM their respective name sake drugs.
[/quote]

Well, if your friend Robert would have died of Crystal Meth you wouldn't talk so lightly about this Glenn.

Yes, this topic should just discuss the trick but it ****es me off that there are individuals out there who don't give a **** and think it is 'hip' to name and compare their trick to a viscious and addictive drug.

Enough said.

Now enjoy yourselves with the discussion of the METHod
Message: Posted by: wise owl (Jun 3, 2008 11:02PM)
Try to order it, but failed in chkout. Would you pls chk whats wrong ?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 3, 2008 11:06PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-03 20:12, Silvio Solaris wrote:

[b]Well, if your friend Robert would have died of Crystal Meth you wouldn't talk so lightly about this Glenn.[/b]

Yes, this topic should just discuss the trick but it ****es me off that there are individuals out there who don't give a **** and think it is 'hip' to name and compare their trick to a viscious and addictive drug.

Enough said.

Now enjoy yourselves with the discussion of the METHod
[/quote]

Ok, seriously.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 3, 2008 11:10PM)
Finally you got it. Discussion closed.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 3, 2008 11:29PM)
No, I was not getting anything, I questioning your choice of tactic and it's appropriateness.

Also, for all you know, he did.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 3, 2008 11:46PM)
METH is like a Grilled Cheese Sandwich. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.

I will always remember you Luis.
Luis O' Brian
July 15 '78 - November 22 '03
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 12:29AM)
I have now read most of the posts in this topic and I cannot believe people here are actually defending the name that this effect was given. As stated before, this is referring to the drug because of the CAPS. Why would you do that? Honestly, please answer that question. I would like an answer from the creator why he named it CRYSTAL METHod. Why?? You are obviously trying to say something there. Not only that, but you are starting to name most your effects about drugs. Again, WHY? I do believe gdw has a valid point on the coke thing, but coke has more than one meaning. Crystal Meth only means ONE thing and that is a drug that kills and destroys peoples lives. Gdw, do you think it is ok to name an effect CRYSTAL METHod, or other drug names as the creator here has? don't just say "it's just a name of an effect" because it is NOT just a name of an effect..not when people keep naming effects after drugs..that just tells us that something is most definately wrong with the people coming up with these names. It would just kill me to think that little kids would walk in a magic store or be online and see tricks like CRYSTAL METHod. What do you think the parens will think of, not only magic, but magicians as well? I am already thinking bad things about the creator, how do you think PARENTS or non-magicians will react?

I, for one, do not want to give magic a bad name. And naming something after a drug will not bring anything positive to the magic community. If this continues I think something should definately be done. This is just childish.

Art
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (Jun 4, 2008 12:47AM)
Just a thought, maybe based on the method of this trick it is justified by calling Crystal Method. I can think of several things that would justify it. As I said in my past post" This should be about the trick and not the method". I understand every ones concerns, but in reality it his choice to call it that and who are we to stop or judge the name of a trick, DVD, or anything for that matter.

sickmagic!
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 01:03AM)
Sickmagic, they named the effect CRYSTAL METHod (with the METH capitalized). Now, why would they put the METH capitalized? How could they justify naming other effects with drugs??? They are reffering to the drug and you can't argue that as Cystal Meth only has one meaning. If they named it Crystal Method, that would be a whole different story and we wouldnt even be arguing about this.

Art
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 4, 2008 01:45AM)
Ah! We start off all over again :exclaim: :nana: :angrypirate:

Sorry, but this is trying the patience of members and probably the moderators. :fruity:

Where is Mr. Darius :worry: Give him a :gossip: and ask him to do the needful before the topic & his effect is :banned:

Since all are :napping: :napping: :napping: I'll do the needful.

[b]For:-[/b] 'CRYSTYAL METHod'

[b]Please Read:-[/b] 'Crystal Method'

Please comply! :comply:

:thanx:

OK I am also off to bed. :napping:

:) ;)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 08:39AM)
Glad to see your support in magic. Seems like you don't care much for the name, which is in my opinion, sad. Naming effects by drugs is just going to start to be a habit for these people if we do not do something now. I hope they see that it is wrong and that people will and ARE giving attention to it.

Best to you,
Art
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 4, 2008 10:53AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-04 02:45, Ustaad wrote:
Ah! We start off all over again :exclaim: :nana: :angrypirate:

Sorry, but this is trying the patience of members and probably the moderators. :fruity:

Where is Mr. Darius :worry: Give him a :gossip: and ask him to do the needful before the topic & his effect is :banned:

Since all are :napping: :napping: :napping: I'll do the needful.

[b]For:-[/b] 'CRYSTYAL METHod'

[b]Please Read:-[/b] 'Crystal Method'

Please comply! :comply:

:thanx:

OK I am also off to bed. :napping:

:) ;)

:xmas:
[/quote]

Well if this is trying the patience of Members and Mod's, the Mod's can lock this at any time. But I know one thing, I don't think any Mod on here condones the promotion or advocacy of illicit illegal drug use or even an effect that promotes it.

This thread is not the dicussion of Crystal Method, but Crystal METHod, had the METH not be capitalized and other effects by the individual named after drugs none of this would be in the thread.

As to members that are ****ed off.....pffft. A pitty when people get upset and PO'd when social awareness and responsibility is brought to question, even over the name of a product.

Maybe you can't get the product because the Anti-Meth groups stumbled on this thread or maybe someone pointed out the product to them. The UK takes METH addiction and promotion very seriously.

Most effects today are aimed at the younger impressionable magician, and this is no less than an attack on their senses with the METH capitalized in the name.

What is even more pathetic the only interest for the majority is the "Gimme, I don't care." attitude.

I haven't gone off topic or have I inflamed my posts in anyway, the creator put a questionable product out, it made it to the Café' and it has drawn contraversy. While most just prefer to sit back and think it doesn't matter, why post, then so beit, but these inane responses to Cocaine vs. Meth, well Meth has never ever been a medical drug, while cocaine is still used, but in a new form Procaine.

Jake
Message: Posted by: jayp (Jun 4, 2008 02:35PM)
Its a name....many things, brands, songs etc. have used names just like this, I don't see how this is in any way promoting drugs or anything, its making fun of drugs which is fair game because there pathetic...if people want to use illegal damaging drugs and a tragedy happens well I don't know what they expected...also the guy above bringing in Glenns friend was arguably the most petty pathetic down right pointless thing ive eva seen.

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Jun 4, 2008 03:11PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-04 15:35, jayp wrote:
Its a name....many things, brands, songs etc. have used names just like this, I don't see how this is in any way promoting drugs or anything, its making fun of drugs which is fair game because there pathetic...if people want to use illegal damaging drugs and a tragedy happens well I don't know what they expected...also the guy above bringing in Glenns friend was arguably the most petty pathetic down right pointless thing ive eva seen.

Jamie.
[/quote]

Your mindset is the exact type of thing that contributes to the decay of a caring and compassionate society. No self awareness or caring, now that is PATHETIC.

But it's ok to capitalize on a damaging drugs name or make fun of the drug in lieu of the lives it destroys?

It's amazing how people will justify their "gimmee" I don't care blindeye attitudes just so they can have something cool, even if it exploits an illegal narcotic, the worst of all the drugs.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 4, 2008 03:17PM)
To be fair, the legal drugs, tobacco and booze kill far more people each year than all the other illegal ones combined...

is this out now then?
Message: Posted by: inidyls (Jun 4, 2008 03:28PM)
Can we please stop this DR. Phil Café nonsense and get on with magic. You guys are simply proving that most magicians are nuts!!!

JV.
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 04:30PM)
"To be fair, the legal drugs, tobacco and booze kill far more people each year than all the other illegal ones combined..."

So that makes it right for effects to be named CRYSTAL METHod? I don't think so. I cant believe people are still trying to defend this. Just shows what the magic community is turning into.

"I don't see how this is in any way promoting drugs or anything"

You have got to be kidding me.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 4, 2008 04:38PM)
[quote] well Meth has never ever been a medical drug [/quote]
This is not true. http://www.crystalrecovery.com/Pages/FAQMedical.html
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Jun 4, 2008 04:42PM)
I could care less about the name because the things that you can do with this are incredible!
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 05:05PM)
Fair enough...that is your own opinion about this and it just disappoints me. Guess no matter how much we try, there will still be SOME people who think the same way.

Darius, if you really want to better the magic community, this is not the way.

Art
Message: Posted by: jayp (Jun 4, 2008 05:59PM)
Yeah I'm making society bad and I'm pathetic for being raised well and having good morals to not try or experiment with what are clearly damaging drugs...good one! And I don't even care about the effect at this moment so don't talk to me about the 'gimme' I'm just shocked at how some people are reacting to this name...there are tons of effects with weapon names in the title and no one bats an eyelid but there designed to kill and I'm sure tons of people have lost people to weapons of somesort...there just names there not promoting the use of drugs etc. I'm sure the creator just thought it would be 'cool' to have a line of effects with drugs in the title, don't ask me why I dunno but the bottom line is the name isn't hurting anybody...

...Also whats all this lives it destroys talk and making fun of it, that clearly isn't the point of the name, and the only people whose lives it destroys are the people it leaves behind because they didn't ask for it...
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 06:29PM)
"the bottom line is the name isn't hurting anybody..."

You are wrong. It is hurting magicians, and I think that means most of us here. It is also giving Darius, the creator, a bad image. All I am asking is that they stop this stupidity, no need for it.
Message: Posted by: Jsmith45 (Jun 4, 2008 06:43PM)
I'll guess I'll check back here when the discussion focus changes to what I logged on for.
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 06:49PM)
Hi Jsmith45,
Welcome to the Café! It's your first day here.

Art
Message: Posted by: jayp (Jun 4, 2008 06:53PM)
Im sorry but how is it hurting magicians?

jamie.
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 07:06PM)
Have you not been reading my posts? I guess I'll quote myself.

"It would just kill me to think that little kids would walk in a magic store or be online and see tricks like CRYSTAL METHod. What do you think the parens will think of, not only magic, but magicians as well? I am already thinking bad things about the creator, how do you think PARENTS or non-magicians will react?"

If this type of naming effects continues, it will make us and magic look BAD.

Now, let me ask YOU something. How is this HELPING magicians? Or do you think it has no effect?
Message: Posted by: Amiable (Jun 4, 2008 08:06PM)
I see that there is a lot of interest in going back and forth about whether Darius naming his effects CANNIBIS and CRYSTAL METHod are acceptable behaviour. I also see that I'm not the only person who wish this thread to focus on the [i]effect[/i] and not its name. Hence I've taken the liberty to create a separate topic for those who want to carry on that thread of discussion. The link is here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=261358&forum=32

Now please help focus our discussions on the [b]effect[/b]?
Message: Posted by: wise owl (Jun 4, 2008 08:35PM)
Great!! Back to the effect.
I can't buy frm magic cave website (properly because I don't use google cart). Does anyone know where else I can ordered the effect??
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 4, 2008 09:39PM)
Art190 & Mad Jake : With utmost respect, nobody on this thread is advocating or trying to advocate the use of any kind of drugs. The title of the effect might have caused an unnecessary concern to a few and took the main topic totally out of context and at a tangent.

Twice I tried to bring the thread back on topic with a smile. Please see my second (related) post full of smiles and I ended the post with a  :)  & a  ;).

Thank you for your understanding!

Best regards,

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 4, 2008 11:03PM)
"nobody on this thread is advocating or trying to advocate the use of any kind of drugs"

I want to here that from Darius, the creator. He IS trying to say something by that title. CRYSTAL METHod. Come on. Why name it that, Darius?

Art
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Jun 4, 2008 11:31PM)
I just want to see a full review of the effect. it could be called crack cocaine for all I care. *shrugs
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 5, 2008 07:37AM)
"nobody on this thread is advocating or trying to advocate the use of any kind of drugs" quote Darius..
The crystal method is called so for a very good reason when you discover how it works! It's all light fun and can be used for so many different applications!
Art190 - your sounding like a Californian policeman- lighten up!
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 5, 2008 08:59AM)
"The crystal method is called so for a very good reason when you discover how it works!"

I do not see how the title can relate to how the trick works. The title is CRYSTAL METHod (METH!!! The drug that kills and controls peoples lives!). Maybe if it was Crystal Method, but no..CRYSTAL METHod is the title you just HAD to choose because you thought it would just be cool and fun. What you didn't realize is that it would cause people to think bad about you and possibly magicians. Kids, or very your people will read these titles and get a thought in their heads.

"Art190 - your sounding like a Californian policeman- lighten up!"

Darius,
Sadly, you're sounding like the rest of the people doing or supporting these drugs, which you name your effects by. I do not mean to be disrespectful (just trying to make a point), but this is what I think when a person continually puts these titles on their effects. Only YOU can stop that because you are the one naming the effects. And this is just ANOTHER reason why you should stop putting drugs words in your titles. This might be a great trick, something that might change the way we do card tricks from now on, but the title has to go. Both for your benifit and ours. Will you continue to do these things or will you stop this? That is the question I would like to know.

Art
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 5, 2008 10:22AM)
Sure- I agree Art- supporting use is not what I or anyone else intend..

A few points- this effect is being launched with Magic Cave.

The CANNABIS effect has nothing to do with me and infact the Crystal Method name wasn't from me either.

Point understood about sensitivity.. Lets focus on the effect, as it really does take card magic to an exciting new level.

Check out July's Genii for a free sample ;-)
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 5, 2008 10:37AM)
Hi Guys...

there will be a free sample in July's Genii. As we give CM sample cards to magicians more and more ideas are being created daily.

With regards to the ordering, we've updated our website so you can order direct with your credit or debit card http://www.magiccave.co.uk

As the co-owner of Magic Cave we produced both the Cannabis Effect and Crystal Method and I'd like to say that none of us advocate or support use of these drugs. Some of the profits from The Cannabis Effect were donated to a drug support charity and it's likely we'll do the same with Crystal Method.
Message: Posted by: Nechto (Jun 5, 2008 11:12AM)
I would just like to say I am friends with both Darius and Lee and the rest of the people at Magic Cave and they are all genuine stand up guys.

Yes the title may be contraversial and some people may have lost friends to this drug which is terrible. I myself lost my sister in a car accident when I was 16 which hit me really badly, but just look at all the games and films that are far more widespread and promoted to EVERYONE in the general public that promote driving recklessly and driving far too fast, car accidents are far more popular and threatening and it might not even be their choice as they may be passengers (like my sister). But how many people bought Grand Theft Auto IV?

Life can be harsh and unforgiving, but that is life.

This is a great effect and the possibilities seem endless and knowing the guys that have brought this out I wouldn't be surprised if they donated more money to an anti drugs campaign through the release of this effect.

Ben
Message: Posted by: fooksau (Jun 5, 2008 03:37PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-05 11:37, Lee_Hathaway wrote:
As the co-owner of Magic Cave we produced both the Cannabis Effect and Crystal Method and I'd like to say that none of us advocate or support use of these drugs. Some of the profits from The Cannabis Effect were donated to a drug support charity and it's likely we'll do the same with Crystal Method.
[/quote]

So now when we look at the title of the effect it will remind us that it's for a good cause. Maybe now the thread can lean back on topic...
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 5, 2008 04:29PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-05 12:12, Nechto wrote:
I would just like to say I am friends with both Darius and Lee and the rest of the people at Magic Cave and they are all genuine stand up guys.

Yes the title may be contraversial and some people may have lost friends to this drug which is terrible. I myself lost my sister in a car accident when I was 16 which hit me really badly, but just look at all the games and films that are far more widespread and promoted to EVERYONE in the general public that promote driving recklessly and driving far too fast, car accidents are far more popular and threatening and it might not even be their choice as they may be passengers (like my sister). But how many people bought Grand Theft Auto IV?

Life can be harsh and unforgiving, but that is life.

This is a great effect and the possibilities seem endless and knowing the guys that have brought this out I wouldn't be surprised if they donated more money to an anti drugs campaign through the release of this effect.

Ben
[/quote]

VERY true Ben. Although, there has been a fair bit of complaining about products like GTA.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 5, 2008 10:57PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-04 22:39, Ustaad wrote:
Art190 & Mad Jake : With utmost respect, nobody on this thread is advocating or trying to advocate the use of any kind of drugs. The title of the effect might have caused an unnecessary concern to a few and took the main topic totally out of context and at a tangent.

Twice I tried to bring the thread back on topic with a smile. Please see my second (related) post full of smiles and I ended the post with a  :)  & a  ;).

Thank you for your understanding!

Best regards,

:xmas:
[/quote]

Narendra,

it is our constitutional right to speak our mind here in the US. I don't think you are aware about the drug epidemic here in our country, otherwise you would not respond this way. We had many great conversations and I respect you a lot.
Since you are in India and don't have a real 'drug' problem there I forgive your comments. What if somebody would name an effect about the slaughtering of cows in India? Would you support that?

POINT IS: There is absolutely no reason or excuse to name a magic trick after a viscious drug that is killing thousands of teenagers and adults daily or even worse turning them into Zombies. There is also no reason or excuse to call ANY legal product after an illicit and viscious drug, PERIOD. Only the naive and irresponsible humans on this planet with a 'care less' attitude will NOT go any further in their life.
And, I hope for all of you who don't care or support the fact of products bearing names of illicit drugs to never ever have children...at least not in this lifetime.

Now go enjoy CRYSTAL METHod...Perhaps Darius should include a little Meth with his trick so the kids come for MORE...like some New York drug dealers lace little characters like :) ;) with LSD or Heroin.

I tell you what thou...you will not last very long 'dealing' it...Ethics has it's price.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 5, 2008 11:15PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-05 23:57, Silvio Solaris wrote:
Narendra,

it is our constitutional right to speak our mind here in the US. I don't think you are aware about the drug epidemic here in our country, otherwise you would not respond this way. We had many great conversations and I respect you a lot.
Since you are in India and don't have a real 'drug' problem there I forgive your comments. What if somebody would name an effect about the slaughtering of cows in India? Would you support that?
[/quote]

Hi Silvio,

Understood and point taken.

Best,

Narendra

:xmas:

P.S. Incidentally I live 6 months in the US and 6 months in India. :)

  
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 5, 2008 11:44PM)
"but just look at all the games and films that are far more widespread and promoted to EVERYONE in the general public that promote driving recklessly and driving far too fast"

So that makes it OK for you guys to do the same? Give me a break.

"This is a great effect and the possibilities seem endless and knowing the guys that have brought this out I wouldn't be surprised if they donated more money to an anti drugs campaign through the release of this effect."

In another thread, someone mentioned this seems fishy. Now that I realize, it does indeed seem fishy that all of a sudden you mention you donate an ammount of money to anti drug campaigns. Like people have said in the other thread, do you have proof?

Art
Message: Posted by: sickmagic (Jun 5, 2008 11:48PM)
MODS, PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD! It is off the topic of the trick and is getting out of hand. I want to discuss the trick, not the name or what effects drugs have on our country.

I am a recovering addict for almost 12 years, have a family, have a great profession in this business and I don't feel the need to dwell on a name of a trick even if it is related to drugs.

PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD coming from someone who understands both sides, I personally think that it is just as wrong to harass people that have the right to name things as they choose, it is the creators right to do so and we have chosen to turn this thread into a a pathetic attempt to voice our opinions on drugs and the perceived drug problem in our country.

If anyone has a problem with what I just wrote feel free to PM me, I just feel this isn't the place as this thread was suppose to be about the effect that is coming out, not what the meaning of the name is or could be.

Sickmagic!
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 6, 2008 04:26AM)
Hi Guys - I am so excited I just had to come on and tell everyone I've worked out the coolest routine with Crystal Method. I'll give you the details here and HOPEFULLY we've just about got time to include it on the instructional DVD. I've tried it on a few laypeople in my local residency and literally FLOORED them!!

So here's the effect...a card is selected and signed. Within seconds it appears inside the card box. Then you tell them to take their card and the box behind their back and place their card into the box. You give them a box of matches and ask them to strike a match above the card box. Without ever having touched the card box since they placed their card inside you very cleanly open it to show it's vanished. They open the matchbox and inside is their card, folded up!

Incidentally for those interested, there is now a seperate thread to discuss the subject of naming of effects etc, so hopefully myself and the many UK close-up guys involved in this project will be able to post some productive stuff on this thread to keep everyone updated on the development!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 6, 2008 07:07AM)
Hey, I agree with this - the sub-topic likely should be in RIGHT AND WRONG and someone can just post a link to it from here for the interested.

The reality is, there are valid points from each person posting - and that one shouldn't just dismiss them or try to polarize the discussion so much as coming to this point perhaps... if the creators really are giving some proceeds to fight substance use problems, they should just place it in their ad and say exactly how and where the money is going.

Personal example: I am still working on an omnibus Jack the Ripper book of bizarre magic - there was a lot of hesitation and fear of some contributors to give to the project until they understood it was with theme that the goal was to highlight the dangers of violence in society, the sickness of the media, what is the twisted appeal of Jack, and use the routines to help educate and make people think about how to improve society. The proceeds will be going to an international organization that helps women victims of violence.

My humble suggestion - if the creators are really on the same tack, just clarity it. It would be noble to basically create effects that some of the proceeds go to help those suffering from the addiction.

And for those who do not see the points that Mad Jake made as having some validity, just stop and reflect and think a moment.

In any case, the effect itself looks amazing!
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 6, 2008 08:37AM)
THE EFFECT IS AMAZING
A COMPLETELY NEW BREAKTHROUGH IN CARD MAGIC

PLEASE COMMENT
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jun 6, 2008 08:50AM)
"THE EFFECT IS AMAZING
A COMPLETELY NEW BREAKTHROUGH IN CARD MAGIC"

You can count me out, as many probably have.
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Jun 6, 2008 11:28AM)
Ok for those who are to much of a wimp to use this when it comes out just because of the name... Well that's a loss for you guys because this creates really strong effects.
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Jun 6, 2008 04:38PM)
It is very sad that people are overdosing on drugs. But, it is their life and if they choose to kill themselves... -THINNING THE HERD-

I see nothing wrong with a clever name like CRYSTAL METHod. I find it humorous actually. Can't wait to purchase it.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 6, 2008 05:03PM)
If the CM "method" looks good enough close up it will probably start being called something like "CM" - so not IMHO it's down to the quality of the item.

So can you hold their signed card up to a mirror and then have their card change places with the card from "mirror world"? :D
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jun 6, 2008 05:57PM)
I think that it would be wise to just lowercase the METH. Not that I am personally offended but its clear that that some are. A rose by any other name..
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 6, 2008 07:45PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-05 23:57, Silvio Solaris wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-04 22:39, Ustaad wrote:
Art190 & Mad Jake : With utmost respect, nobody on this thread is advocating or trying to advocate the use of any kind of drugs. The title of the effect might have caused an unnecessary concern to a few and took the main topic totally out of context and at a tangent.

Twice I tried to bring the thread back on topic with a smile. Please see my second (related) post full of smiles and I ended the post with a :) & a ;).

Thank you for your understanding!

Best regards,

:xmas:
[/quote]

Narendra,

it is our constitutional right to speak our mind here in the US . . . .
[/quote]

But this is not the US, this is The Magic Café ;)
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Jun 7, 2008 01:59AM)
...and the Magic Café is located in the United States. Atleast where they take their checks at.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/donate.php?mail=1
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Jun 7, 2008 07:57AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-05 11:37, Lee_Hathaway wrote:
Hi Guys...

there will be a free sample in July's Genii. As we give CM sample cards to magicians more and more ideas are being created daily.
[/quote]

So what you're saying is, the first ones free, then you're gonna start charging? Hmmmm where have I heard that before? :)
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 7, 2008 09:59AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 02:59, DVLKCC wrote:
...and the Magic Café is located in the United States. Atleast where they take their checks at.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/donate.php?mail=1
[/quote]

But the Café is located online, and it has its own rules with regards to what we can talk about.
Message: Posted by: Irishghost (Jun 7, 2008 10:34AM)
I will be getting this to see the working behind it. I tend to stay out of topics which people are emotionally attached to. I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, and should not be called out over it. I wish you all well to a good and fair debate, and I wish the creator well in his new release and concept.

Jeremy Hanrahan
Message: Posted by: magico563 (Jun 7, 2008 11:50AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-01 16:12, ragingcalm wrote:
What am I missing? They're just colour changes?
[/quote]

I’m with you on this one, what the hell am I missing??

The first thing I saw on the demo was the only thing that looked new to me and it was very good but all the rest of the demo just look like regular color changes I already know??

Please enlighten me because the demo was poor from my view!

Magico563.
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Jun 7, 2008 11:54AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 12:50, magico563 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-01 16:12, ragingcalm wrote:
What am I missing? They're just colour changes?
[/quote]

Im with you on this one?? What the hell am I missing??

The first thing I saw on the demo was the only thing that looked new to me and it was very good but all the rest of the demo just look like regular colour changes I already know??

Please enlighten me because the demo was poor from my view!

Magico563.
[/quote]
Yeah all the moves are standard color changes but did you notice how the signature of the spectator stayed the same. With this you can transfer the signature of a spectator to a different card or duplicate it! You can do very good card to impossible location tricks or card thru window or many other tricks that require duplicates but now you can do this with a signed card! Very many things are possible with this.
Message: Posted by: magico563 (Jun 7, 2008 12:00PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 12:54, jamie9 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 12:50, magico563 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-01 16:12, ragingcalm wrote:
What am I missing? They're just colour changes?
[/quote]

Im with you on this one?? What the hell am I missing??

The first thing I saw on the demo was the only thing that looked new to me and it was very good but all the rest of the demo just look like regular colour changes I already know??

Please enlighten me because the demo was poor from my view!

Magico563.
[/quote]
Yeah all the moves are standard color changes but did you notice how the signature of the spectator stayed the same. With this you can transfer the signature of a spectator to a different card or duplicate it! You can do very good card to impossible location tricks or card thru window or many other tricks that require duplicates but now you can do this with a signed card! Very many things are possible with this.
[/quote]

No, because the only time I saw a card change to another card still with the same sig was at the beginning and the rest of the demo was just full of shots where a card had no sig but then it did have a sig and that could be just with just a duplicate card??

Magico563.
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Jun 7, 2008 12:05PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 13:00, magico563 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 12:54, jamie9 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-07 12:50, magico563 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-01 16:12, ragingcalm wrote:
What am I missing? They're just colour changes?
[/quote]

Im with you on this one?? What the hell am I missing??

The first thing I saw on the demo was the only thing that looked new to me and it was very good but all the rest of the demo just look like regular colour changes I already know??

Please enlighten me because the demo was poor from my view!

Magico563.
[/quote]
Yeah all the moves are standard color changes but did you notice how the signature of the spectator stayed the same. With this you can transfer the signature of a spectator to a different card or duplicate it! You can do very good card to impossible location tricks or card thru window or many other tricks that require duplicates but now you can do this with a signed card! Very many things are possible with this.
[/quote]

No, because the only time I saw a card change to another card still with the same sig was at the beginning and the rest of the demo was just full of shots where a card had no sig but then it did have a sig and that could be just with just a duplicate card??

Magico563.
[/quote]
Yeah I don't know why they include those in the the demo. I think like the fourth change was cool. You know the one where there is only one (spectators)signature on the card and then the magicians signature appears on it too.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jun 7, 2008 03:20PM)
There is more to it than colour changes. Its a utility gimmick. Many effects possible.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: jamie9 (Jun 7, 2008 04:09PM)
Does it run out and you need to buy refill gimmicks?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 7, 2008 07:44PM)
Yeah - how much are batteries for that thing?
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 7, 2008 09:06PM)
Depending on what effects you wish to perform with CM you may eventually require refills, however you are provided with enough to do ample performances.

There is a lot more to Crystal Method than colour changes, there are many many more applications.

Regarding the name, we've received much feedback. We like the name, and see it as a bit of harmless fun, however we have decided to drop the capitalised CRYSTAL METH part of the name as in hindsight this is a bit over the top. I have made a fuller post and statement regarding this here http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=261358&forum=32

CM is available to pre-order at http://www.magiccave.co.uk - use discount code "Caféoffer" for a special discount for Magic Café users!
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 8, 2008 08:40AM)
Kudos on your decision!

Also, for all those posting the negative thoughts on the name should at least now give a word of thanks... IMHO. They didn't have to do it and they did.
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 8, 2008 03:58PM)
I think this was a wise decision at the end of the day.
Message: Posted by: illuzzionz (Jun 8, 2008 05:42PM)
So any release date yet in the states?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 9, 2008 10:41AM)
The global release date will be the end of this month -27th June.

Check out http://www.magiccave.co.uk for more details.

As mentioned, we have dropped the capitals, making it crystal method and have had good feedback on those it has offended.

No graphic work on the final product will link towards the promotion of any such narcotic.

We will shortly be adding new clips of routines on Youtube ;-)

The principle is completely new and if you buy this, you will be coming up with your own effects that day I promise!
Message: Posted by: ragingcalm (Jun 9, 2008 03:09PM)
Is the final spectators card examinable? Otherwise is simply looks like the spectator is signing a stiff see through plastic adhesive covering over a card, and following the KM move the plastic sheeting adheres to the new card...
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 9, 2008 08:00PM)
Aah finally a magic question I can respond to.

You know, I love magic and have been passionate about it since a young age. All the arguing and debate over the name saddens me greatly when we can all come together and discuss the one thing we all share in common.

To answer your question, there are various different routines and ideas. Some leave things examinable, other don't. It's an application that lends itself to many many many different effects, so depending on the particular routine you're performing it's open to you to decide how to end up. The DVD provides lots of useful methods to match your performing style.
Message: Posted by: cardlover (Jun 9, 2008 10:13PM)
I think this could be really cool.

I don't think, you can have a spectator take a card (in their hands) sign it and rub it to make sure the ink is dry and then take the card and display it and make a duplicate of that signed card, so you can have their signed card loaded and still show a dupe with their signature and end with them keeping their signed card.

I do several signed card to impossible locations and not sure if it would be wise showing I can make a signature move from one card to another and then do signed card to impossible location, using other methods.

Showing a spectator you can duplicate a signature(even if you can't) and they believe it, I wonder if they would think your duplicating their card when you do impossible location effects and the cards are legit.

Not knocking this at all and I'm sure I will purchase it when it comes out, but I feel people should be careful in how they handle this.


I think this has great potential and think that people will come up with some realy cool tricks, but if your only getting it because you want to duplicate their signature on another card for card to impossible locations, you may be disapointed.

I have only read post here at the Café, but reading between the lines and how things are answered leads me to believe what I said.

I could be totaly wrong and would be tickled if I was. :)
Message: Posted by: illuzzionz (Jun 10, 2008 12:27AM)
Any word on distributors in US? I know Paul Gross would want to carry it! He always carries everything new and unique!
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 11, 2008 05:56PM)
Cardlover- you can very nearly do what your saying.
They can sign it, but best they sign it in your hands.
The ink goes dry.
Honestly its such a sneaky technique to copy the signature!!

Check out next months Genii ;-)
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Jun 11, 2008 06:55PM)
***As mentioned, we have dropped the capitals, making it crystal method***

As of 4:53 PM PST on June 11, 2008 this statement is STIll untrue!
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (Jun 12, 2008 05:13AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-11 19:55, MickeyPainless wrote:
***As mentioned, we have dropped the capitals, making it crystal method***

As of 4:53 PM PST on June 11, 2008 this statement is STIll untrue!
[/quote]

You've got the blues?
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jun 12, 2008 04:39PM)
What backs do these cards have? I need league backs.
Message: Posted by: Nechto (Jun 12, 2008 05:09PM)
They're not cards as such and they can be used with any design ;-)
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 13, 2008 09:05AM)
The website has now been updated as will all future marketing and final product. Unfortunately the video demo requires a re-edit so will take a little longer.

More video demo's of effects coming soon.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 15, 2008 05:15AM)
Kudos to the creator(s) for making the change. It shows that you do care. I respect that very much. Best of luck with the release!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 15, 2008 08:24PM)
Cool, any thoughts on that mirror idea?
Message: Posted by: Nechto (Jun 18, 2008 10:24AM)
We have fresh new videos of CM in action with lots of applications.
Hopefully we'll get these out by Friday.
Message: Posted by: Nechto (Jun 18, 2008 01:49PM)
This may be a bit confusing but this is me and the post above isn't!!

I was jamming with Darius the other day and we took a look here on the Café, I signed in and it seems Darius still has me logged in!!

Hey Darius, maybe I should call you but if you see this stop stealing my identity!!!!!!

The 'real' Nechto - Ben!!
Message: Posted by: spencerpeterson (Jun 18, 2008 05:49PM)
The routines in the Genii are really nice, some very good ideas.

Hey Angelo, you still didn't add me on the PS3.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jun 18, 2008 06:01PM)
I did. You are added, just not online when I am :)

Angelo
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 19, 2008 12:25AM)
The Ginii is out now? Kool. I'll have to pick it up.

Any who, Am I the only one who is constantly having trouble getting the magiccave site to work?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 19, 2008 05:35AM)
Should be http://www.magiccave.co.uk
Message: Posted by: jcroop (Jun 19, 2008 06:17AM)
Genii arrived. I think there are many great uses for this item/method. But it will require some audience management.

However, for signature transfers, you know that the spectator will want to examine the card, which will be a problem.

Jim
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 19, 2008 12:29PM)
Yeah, I keep getting this page:
http://wsearch.net/?unknown
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 19, 2008 12:35PM)
Er... is anyone else getting an issue when going to http://www.magiccave.co.uk

It seems fine from my computer...
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 19, 2008 05:25PM)
I got the genii and I am not sure if I got a defective card or not because it looked frosted, is it supposed to look more clear?
Message: Posted by: jprace (Jun 19, 2008 05:40PM)
I showed a quick variation using the card from Genii to a relative, and he said he sees something on top of the card. It didn't look normal to him.
Message: Posted by: fooksau (Jun 19, 2008 07:48PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-19 18:40, magicman4646 wrote:
I showed a quick variation using the card from Genii to a relative, and he said he sees something on top of the card. It didn't look normal to him.
[/quote]

This trick sounds silly to me.
Message: Posted by: jprace (Jun 19, 2008 08:22PM)
Basically, he saw the 'gimmick' on my cards. It's a very interesting idea, but if people can see the gimmick than I don't want to perform it.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 19, 2008 08:48PM)
We've performed this hundreds of times with no issue... Its near impossible to see the gimmick when used correctly.
The DVD will explain loads more on handling.

Hold it on the entire pack and try again.
Also best not using kings, queens or Jacks.. Also good to keep a metre or two away from the spectator. There is far more than just using this as a shell..
Try the ambitious card effect..
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 19, 2008 08:48PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-19 07:17, jcroop wrote:
* Genii arrived. I think there are many great uses for this item/method.

[b][i]* But it will require some audience management.

* However, for signature transfers, you know that the spectator will want to examine the card, which will be a problem.[/i][/b]
[/quote]

[quote]
On 2008-06-19 18:40, magicman4646 wrote:
I showed a quick variation using the card from Genii to a relative, [b][i]and he said he sees something on top of the card. It didn't look normal to him.[/i][/b]
[/quote]

Hmmm!

:question:

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 19, 2008 09:38PM)
That's pretty much why I suggested the bit with the mirror- so you wind up with a clearly impossible object and "have to" fix it ;) back to its original condition by taking the card and pen back to the mirror and "undoing" the whole process. :D
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 20, 2008 01:11PM)
The card type has been specially chosen.
When you have a pack of these cards you can not see more than 15 cards down, allowing chosen cards to appear in the middle of the pack

There are so many uses for this as the DVD highlights

Even omnideck 2 !
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 20, 2008 01:41PM)
Ok, so I think we can gather what it is now, lol. Perhaps a bit too much info has slipped out.

Any who, I can certainly see a huge potential here, but it also has some serious limitations with regards to what can be done with the card with a duplicate signature on it, which, unlike the ad implies, is not instant, but would require doing it under the pretense of something else.

This duplicate signed card, I would imagine, wouldn't be able to be, at least not easily, destroyed in full view, for example without destroying the gimmick as well.

Similarly, as mentioned a transfered signature would not be examinable, and unless you combined the two, so that you accomplished the transfered signature by using the duplicating method, you would not be able to have any card examined while signed.

So, if they just sign to the gimmick, I am guessing, no cards are examinable while signed, but if they sign their card, and then you use the duplicating method, then at least you can transfer the sig BACK to the original card and have THAT one examined.

Any who, don't take any of this as complaining or ragging on the product, I am just thinking out loud. I think this has tonnes of potential and can't wait to get one, but I do not thin, for me, it will replace Forgery, for example, which, to be completely honest, I would have been ecstatic if it did, (Forgery leaves the new card with the signature on it examinable, which was the strong point I was hoping for from Crystal Method) but MAY make for some interesting other uses and such.

Please, again, don't take that as the shameless self promotion plug that it is ;) just thinking on the keyboard.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 20, 2008 05:02PM)
... I really hope its more than just a p**ce of tra***** p**** with sti*** propertie because that has been a mthod for ages... I found out about that a while back when I started a thread in secret sessions regarding signature transfers... I hope that the value is some sort of unique handling if it is that... heck, people have used that method since ov**h**d pro***** came out?

Well, I look forward to finding out when it gets released.
Message: Posted by: magicdano (Jun 20, 2008 07:40PM)
Does anybody know if CM will be carried by any of the dealers at the IBM/Sam Convention? I will like to see it demonstrated there in person.
Also, maybe I missed it but when using a Sharpie I assume it must be a Dry Erase. Is that correct?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jun 20, 2008 10:57PM)
Since ov**h**d pro***** (what???) came out?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 20, 2008 11:42PM)
That thing folks use for simple (cheap) presentations instead of a slide projector so they can manage the show themselves - usually not for pictures though. way before powerpoint and PCs attached to projectors.
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jun 21, 2008 03:22AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-20 18:02, Dr Spektor wrote:
... I really hope its more than just a p**ce of tra***** p**** with sti*** propertie because that has been a mthod for ages... I found out about that a while back when I started a thread in secret sessions regarding signature transfers... I hope that the value is some sort of unique handling if it is that... heck, people have used that method since ov**h**d pro***** came out?

Well, I look forward to finding out when it gets released.
[/quote]

A bit like when people used to glue two playing cards together before you could buy double faces etc?

Just because you could botch this together before doesn't make this any less valid a release. These guys have obviously worked on this to iron out the problems and create some very effective magic.

Like all things in magic it wont be for everyone...

I have seen some of the effects on the DVD and they look great. James Brown has a particularly good routine that does not use a sig transpo but obviously fools the hell out of the spectators judging by their reactions!!

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 21, 2008 05:48AM)
Wasn't it clearly stated that you can make a duplicate card with exact signature or am I missing something here?
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jun 21, 2008 06:06AM)
If it is what I think it is then none of the cards actually have a signature on it, only the gimmick, right?
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jun 21, 2008 06:20AM)
R.Dunn: Depends on the routine and trick you are doing.

Angelo.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 21, 2008 07:19AM)
Well....Can you or can you not produce an exact duplicate of the card the spec.
initially signed!? If that is NOT the case we have another hyped up BS advertisement here that is a LIE. I was LOL when I watched the Gecko demo shot over the shoulder selling an 'utility device' like no other...and trying to sell us the idea, that we can make cell phones and beer bottles vanish...?!

Let's keep our feet on the ground Gentlemen.

sincerely,

Silvio Solaris
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (Jun 21, 2008 07:19AM)
Seriously? Is it not possible to create a dublicate signature instantly and destroy it in full view?

If that is true I feel pretty screwed, by having ordered this product already...

Tjernobyl
Message: Posted by: Y2John (Jun 21, 2008 12:19PM)
Hmmm... hopefully not just a s*** of **a***c with a lip or s*****n*e*, that's not a bad method or anything, but not what I would have been hoping for as it wouldn't allow for as much freedom when it comes to utilizing the sig.

I bet the dvd has some really cool routines utilizing it though.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Jun 21, 2008 12:48PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-21 04:22, Zerububle wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-20 18:02, Dr Spektor wrote:
... I really hope its more than just a p**ce of tra***** p**** with sti*** propertie because that has been a mthod for ages... I found out about that a while back when I started a thread in secret sessions regarding signature transfers... I hope that the value is some sort of unique handling if it is that... heck, people have used that method since ov**h**d pro***** came out?

Well, I look forward to finding out when it gets released.
[/quote]

A bit like when people used to glue two playing cards together before you could buy double faces etc?

Just because you could botch this together before doesn't make this any less valid a release. These guys have obviously worked on this to iron out the problems and create some very effective magic.

Like all things in magic it wont be for everyone...

I have seen some of the effects on the DVD and they look great. James Brown has a particularly good routine that does not use a sig transpo but obviously fools the hell out of the spectators judging by their reactions!!

Bubble
[/quote]

Read what I wrote - like I said, I'm looking forward to unique handlings etc. so calm down pal. I was just hoping it was more than a method that already existed before.... and now hoping it is some innovations and techniques to add to pl**t** trans***** use...

Now I look forward to reviews from purchasers... that is all. I am hoping this will be an excellent success.
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jun 21, 2008 12:54PM)
My pulse never exceeded 60bpm ;-)
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 21, 2008 07:07PM)
Yes you can make a duplicate of an initialed card.
The duplicate is on the crystal method card though. Lots of potential with this.
James Brown has some excellent input and thoughts on the DVD - legend...
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jun 21, 2008 07:45PM)
Initialed and signfd are two different things.Would you please tell what is a actually possible with the trick.
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 21, 2008 10:46PM)
Ok I must be the only one having this issue but the gimmick looks weird and they cant take the signed card with them. Something so personal and the magician keeps it. I love the idea, seriously I really do but what I recieved from genii looked like a frosted piece of p*****C. Can we say what it is.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 04:07AM)
Ted- I think you're not understanding the options you can do with CM.
Have you read the effects on Genii possible with it?
Try it on some people then blogg back...
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 04:52AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-02 06:55, Lee_Hathaway wrote:
Hi ragingcalm thanks for your observation. We've tried to be very respectful regarding exposure on Youtube hence why the trailer hopefully doesn't give away the whole method.

To this end, there are many applications we've been unable to put onto the trailer. Not all the applications for this effect are colour change type things but it was felt these were the most visual for the trailer. However, the card isn't actually changing, you are moving the spectators signature from one card to another. The instructional DVD will contain many ideas from some of the top names in close-up magic here in the UK. You can visibly remove signatures or allow a volunteer to drop their signed card into a drink only for it to completely vanish.

Crystal method can also be used to give you an instant duplicate of THEIR initialled signed card. There are several other ideas which we'll try and film as routines and post on Youtube shortly.

Thanks for all your feedback guys - have a great weekend.
[/quote]

This is kind of confusing... Do you mean duplicate of their initialled card or their initially signed card.

As of now it seems that the gimmick cannot be given away or is spotted during the performance...although you also stated that the gimmick can be given away...

Let's cut this hyped marketing BS and state the real facts please.
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (Jun 22, 2008 05:28AM)
What would I want to use a duplicate card for if I can't hand it out, destroy, or make it go to an impossible place the spectators can get their card themselves. And what are all those In the spectators hands effects you talk about on the product page. You have just stated it is best to be a metre or two away from the spectator when you use this gimmick.

I would love to see some reviews when the DVD comes out, but right now I am withdrawing my order on Magic Cave and waiting. This is a NO GO for me.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 11:45AM)
Tjernobyl- wait and see the DVD reviews.
With top guys behind this effect, I suggest you SEE the range of miracles one can perform before opening your mouth.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 11:46AM)
'' Do you mean duplicate of their initialled card or their initially signed card. ''

Both

Please note there and MANY more effects not just using signed cards.
Message: Posted by: Ben Morris-Rains (Jun 22, 2008 12:22PM)
I got the card in Genii. I want to like this, but it seems like something that looks a lot better on video than in real life. Granted, I have not tried this out on anyone. As far as makeing signitures appear on a card, it seems easier (and less expensive) to just use a duplicate un-written on card.

I am still slightly intrigued by this.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 12:55PM)
People seem stuck on signature ideas.

There are LOADS MORE EFFECTS than just signatures!!!
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jun 22, 2008 01:04PM)
With regards to hyped marketing... The descriptions are always 'what the spectator sees'. The reality is always different. that's Magic!!

Here's an effect. A card changes into a thought of selection WHILST the spectator is holding it. Method... a double lift...

As magicians we should be able to see past the method and see the effect... If we are now only interested in the method we may as well quit.

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 22, 2008 02:19PM)
When the effect as presented here reads "volunteer signs a card" but the effect as perceived by a sane average person reads "person signs something on top of the deck gripped tightly by the performer" we have an issue.

Ask anyone at the supermarket if they can tell paper from plastic. Most people aren't blind or stupid - even if they are willing to sometimes turn a blind eye to our contrived and funny looking stuff for the sake of entertainment.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 02:42PM)
From the spectators view, its exactly as stated, he signs the top card which is on the top of the pack.

There are more you tube proper shot clips with legends like James Brown and Lee Hathaway on it coming tomorrow- watch this space!
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jun 22, 2008 03:24PM)
Guys, wait until people use the tricks and then can offer reviews. Don't try to judge or be negative about it until you try it. Don't forget there is no such thing as real magic and there has to be trickery everywhere. There are routines where the spectator never once touches the gimmicked card aswell. I have done the Blind Date routine in Genii on laypeople and no one has suspected a thing. There are too many people here trying to knock something without physically trying it. But hey, that's the Café for you. :D

Relax!
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 22, 2008 03:50PM)
Folk

There is a way a card signature can be duplicated and left with the spectator! This is an effect from Daniel Young, the creator behind the Cannabis Effect

We are hoping to upload the clip onto youtube in the next 24 hours!
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 05:54PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 16:50, ziatabari wrote:
Folk

There is a way a card signature can be duplicated and left with the spectator! This is an effect from Daniel Young, the creator behind the Cannabis Effect

We are hoping to upload the clip onto youtube in the next 24 hours!
[/quote]

The main point of interest and main reason this effect sparked my interest was that it 'initially' allows you to make and end up with an exact duplicate card a spectator signed -AND that this duplicate can be handed out. In other words you have two identical cards with two identical signatures.
Is that true or not?
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 05:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 13:55, ziatabari wrote:
People seem stuck on signature ideas.

There are LOADS MORE EFFECTS than just signatures!!!
[/quote]

What do you mean? The main (selling) point of this effect is signature transfer from one to another card and/or ending up with an exact duplicate card with signature. Your statement is very contradicting my friend.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jun 22, 2008 07:10PM)
Silvio: No you cannot have 2 duplicate cards with a dulicate signature. Now that it is clear you can make an informed decision of whether this trick is for you. This is strange - its not even my trick and I feel the need to correct people. The misunderstandings and misinformation are coming from Café members. Its all there in black and white in the ad copy. The ad copy clearly states:

* Transfer signatures from card to card
* Create duplicate initialed cards
* Perform never before seen “in their hands” effects
* Stun your onlookers with impossible mentalism routines

The ad does not say it can create duplicate 'signed' cards. After the inital ad, further ideas have evolved which possibly allow duplication of signatures. Still work in progress. That's the beauty of the principle - it allows for creativity to develop and allows people to work on new ideas. As I have said, wait for the product to come out and wait for the reviews and then make an informed decision. That way you cannot say you have bought something you did not want.

Its NOT JUST a signature trick. How can Darius' statement be contradicting?

Some members are causing friction on their own accord and getting worked up.

Relax guys. :D
Message: Posted by: Tjernobyl (Jun 22, 2008 07:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-08 11:22, ziatabari wrote:
Crystal method allows 2 things

One is the transfer of one signature to another card, with no duplicates needed.

The second is the ability to make an immediate duplicate of a signed card.

Both are v easy to do and will not be detected.
[/quote]

Come on guys. You gotta admit this product is overhyped (stating that it can do things it can't). In my world a duplicate means an exact copy.

I don't care how many other possibilities a product have, if it doesn't accomplish what it states, and the main reason I buy it, then it is wrong marketing.

We all know there are curtain rules as to how companies label food products. There aren't such rules in the magic industry because most of the time the product is a secret in itself. I seriously feel this product has the wrong label.

So,
You can all tell us to relax, but that will only drive it further in the wrong direction of future products.

Bottom line: When something says it can create duplicate initialed cards, I want two cards in my hand, which are as alike, that any spectator will never know the difference. Anything other than that is not of my concern.

Tjernobyl
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 22, 2008 08:14PM)
Anyone applied pips to the crystal method to make "this" look like "that"?
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 22, 2008 09:21PM)
I love the idea and really want to do it but please tell me how to get away from the fact that the card looks fake in person on a grainy youtube video you cant tell but seriously I have tried this on magicians and laymen and theycan see it. Give me some tips I would love to accomplish this type of effect but I don't think this card is going to fool anyone.
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jun 22, 2008 10:55PM)
Hopefully I don't sound to demanding but I really love the idea and I was just supprised when I saw the actual gimmick. Can anyone answer 1 question am I the only one having the problem where the gimmick looks weird.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 11:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 20:10, Angelo M Carbone wrote:
Silvio: No you cannot have 2 duplicate cards with a dulicate signature. Now that it is clear you can make an informed decision of whether this trick is for you. This is strange - its not even my trick and I feel the need to correct people. The misunderstandings and misinformation are coming from Café members. Its all there in black and white in the ad copy. The ad copy clearly states:

* Transfer signatures from card to card
* Create duplicate initialed cards
* Perform never before seen “in their hands” effects
* Stun your onlookers with impossible mentalism routines

The ad does not say it can create duplicate 'signed' cards. After the inital ad, further ideas have evolved which possibly allow duplication of signatures. Still work in progress. That's the beauty of the principle - it allows for creativity to develop and allows people to work on new ideas. As I have said, wait for the product to come out and wait for the reviews and then make an informed decision. That way you cannot say you have bought something you did not want.

Its NOT JUST a signature trick. How can Darius' statement be contradicting?

Some members are causing friction on their own accord and getting worked up.

Relax guys. :D
[/quote]

Angelo,

this is not what Mr. Hathaway stated in his post. Go ahead and re-read page one on this topic. Then we talk...
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 11:52PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 12:46, ziatabari wrote:
'' Do you mean duplicate of their initialled card or their initially signed card. ''

Both

Please note there and MANY more effects not just using signed cards.
[/quote]

Is this a joke or do I have to take some Crystal Meth to be on the same page as you guys?! Mr. Carbone says that a duplicate is absolutely not possible and you say that it is!? Now I am beginning to understand the 'initial' name of the product...
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 22, 2008 11:58PM)
The idea to have an instant duplicate of a signed card would actually be (have been)a significant and advanced tool for an awesome ACR, Card through window and any TnR Card effect. I think I can talk for many brothers here who thought the same when they read the 'initial' possibilities that can be achieved with Crystal M.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Jun 23, 2008 12:48AM)
* Create duplicate initialed cards

But not a duplicate "signature"? My signature and Initial look almost identical! This makes no sense! Don't feel compelled to respond to this as I have no intention of buying this trick but I'll bet other inquiring minds wanna know!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jun 23, 2008 01:34AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 01:48, MickeyPainless wrote:
* Create duplicate initialed cards

But not a duplicate "signature"? My signature and Initial look almost identical! This makes no sense! Don't feel compelled to respond to this as I have no intention of buying this trick but I'll bet other inquiring minds wanna know!

Mick
[/quote]

Signatures tend to be your signed name... initials tend to be the first letters of each... Essentially quite different for most people.

An initialed card would be easier to duplicate on the spot than a signature. Having looked at the card in Genii I think there are ways that you could duplicate a signed card.

I am still quite surprised that some members here seem to need their hands held over this one. I love the way that Mickey has decided not to buy the effect but still feels the need to tell everyone!

Angelo Carbone is one of the most respected magic consultants in the world. There isn't a magic show in the UK that he isn't involved in in some way. The fact that he has backed this tells me all I need to know about this. The original emphasis on the name is not a very good reason to dismiss it. I wonder how many people are still influenced by this OLD NEWS...

Bubble
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 23, 2008 03:20PM)
Here we go people

Check out the copy duplicate that can be handed out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efc5VNUXng
Message: Posted by: Verifythisnow (Jun 23, 2008 05:21PM)
I still think there is a HUGE confusion over whether we can duplicate signitures, or only initials.

[quote] Crystal method allows 2 things

One is the transfer of one signature to another card, with no duplicates needed.

The second is the ability to make an immediate duplicate of a signed card.

Both are v easy to do and will not be detected. [/quote]

So we can duplicate WHOLE SIGNITURES, and it's not just limited to INITIALS ?
Message: Posted by: QED (Jun 23, 2008 05:41PM)
Wow, those demo videos are really awful... bad video, bad sound, bad angles... bad...
I really want to like this, I have the sample from Genii, but it just ain't clickin' for me...
the visibility of the gimmick in many different lighting situations is a bit obvious for me...
It's kind of like a th*#bt!p... YOU know it's there, but the spec doesn't, so you might be able to get away with it... on the other hand, you aren't deliberately flashing the other gimmick I mentioned like you are with the CM... and you CERTAINLY aren't trying to get a spec to sign it... it's gonna take some chutzpah to use this... the gimmick is not TERRIBLY obvious from a distance but it IS from close up....
you can maybe get away with this in a dark bar, but I can't see this working in broad daylight...
think I'll wait for the reviews of the dvd to start popping up before I go into my wallet...

Q
Message: Posted by: cardlover (Jun 23, 2008 06:22PM)
The last video posted is more of a forged signature from what I see and can be done, with just some duplicates with no need for some special card.

Like I said a while back...if your getting this to duplicate signatures, I think you will be a little upset.

This IS NOT a unique and easy way to get an exact copy of a spectator signed card.

If it was, it would be the strongest selling point possible and would be played up as such.

The effect shown, shows I nice and sneaky handling, but like I said, is not an exact duplicate and I don't think you can do a signature or an initial for that matter.


Am I wrong?

I don't think so.

I think it would have been better not to let people assume this.
Message: Posted by: Silvio Solaris (Jun 24, 2008 09:42PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 19:22, cardlover wrote:
The last video posted is more of a forged signature from what I see and can be done, with just some duplicates with no need for some special card.

Like I said a while back...if your getting this to duplicate signatures, I think you will be a little upset.

This IS NOT a unique and easy way to get an exact copy of a spectator signed card.

If it was, it would be the strongest selling point possible and would be played up as such.

The effect shown, shows I nice and sneaky handling, but like I said, is not an exact duplicate and I don't think you can do a signature or an initial for that matter.


Am I wrong?

I don't think so.

I think it would have been better not to let people assume this.
[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. The only way the signature or initial can be duplicated is by tracing over the original onto the plastic sheet.
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Jun 24, 2008 11:05PM)
I really want to get this too. Any GOOD points about the product?

I don't care who endorses the product, it really doesn't mean all that much to me. Just give it to me straight. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 25, 2008 06:07PM)
.tthat clip was an improptu pub performance shot on mon night. There are fresh videos now on youtube of loads of ideas with crystal method. So funny people are just stuck with signatures in their mind ! The dvd is very long. Top performers and creative ideas. Pro quaility and worth a good watch . This will shortly be reviewed too. If you cant see all the potential this creates that the top performers here in the uk use and have top routines with then please do not write on this blog. This is a creative forum :)
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jun 26, 2008 06:46AM)
Hi guys,

The video of Neil is shot in the pub on Monday night shortly after the Magic Circle so apologies for the quality but it's not supposed to be a professional edit.

The effect Neil is performing is Daniel Youngs signature transposition effect which will feature on the DVD. It's based on an idea of mine that you could trace a signature using the Crystal Method card under the guise of writing a prediction. Personally we've all performed this effect to many laymen in several situations and blown them away.

I think the important thing with that particular effect is you are only using the duplicate to flash the signed card briefly before the transposition and granted it wouldn't stand up to close-inspection. It's used more as an affirmation than anything. Plus at the conclusion they are left with their signed card to keep if they wish.

This is one of the ideas on the DVD using CM. It's a shame it looks to me like far too much emphasis has been placed on this aspect considering the many other things that are possible with a Crystal Method deck. I apologise wholeheartedly if this has been mis-interpreted from my original post on page 1 in which I said you could create a duplicate of their initialed signed card - however, this is entirely the perception an onlooker would have of the situation if you performed a routine into which this method fitted.

In Genii there are routines from ourselves and 3 which Jim Steinmeyer created which have nothing to do with this particular principle. My personal favourite routine with Crystal Method is called "Think Inside the Box". I created this routine and it goes down so well I now include it as a standard at all my gigs...there's a Youtube clip here...hope you enjoy it and realise some of the other possibilities...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYXZfS7cq0k&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Slappy (Jun 26, 2008 11:19AM)
This should be called the "Blurry and Out of Focus Method" But then it would lose that cool "druggy" reference, huh?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jun 26, 2008 01:03PM)
Blurry and out of focus?

With Jim Steinmeyer (David Copperfield creator)
Angelo Carbone (many top TV magicians)
james Brown (Magic Circle winner)
Steve Della ( 4F and top card magician)
Neil Young (inventor of top selling Cannabis Card effect)

ALL on DVD ??

Slappy- why don't you watch the DVD first then comment.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Jun 30, 2008 03:14PM)
When's it out though? I placed an order a while back and have heard nothing...
Message: Posted by: Harry H (Jul 2, 2008 03:55PM)
Well I got to page 3 and lost the will to live,glad to see this page seems normal.

I don't care what the trick is called but it is a worker.The free methods in Genii are great for starters.

If anyoen can post what page trick discussion resumed on Id be grateful. :D
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 3, 2008 01:01AM)
Well, I for one absolutely love the trick. The possibilities are really endless with this gimmick. I have been using it for about a week now and I really like the idea. I think everyone was expecting something really close to real magic but that wasnt what they got. The gimmick is not that visible. If you worry about it, the spectator will find it. The gimmick comes into play on the offbeat of the tricks so it doesn't have all the heat on it. The spectators don't ALWAYS SIGN THE CARD. This is what Darius has been trying to say. Not every trick utilizes the gimmick as a signature duplication such as Lee Hathway's Out of the Box routine(which by the way is absolutely great Lee!).
I know that this DVD has been made top quality and has some of the top minds of magic in the UK involved. No doubt this will have some great material....I have heard great things about James Brown's Omni Deck 2 routine which is really sounding great. I can hardly wait for my dvd to arrive....I ordered it about a month ago. But hey, Everyone has their own opinions and types of magic.

From me guys, GREAT job!

-Nico Zottos

PS: All you guys saying you aren't going to buy it....GREAT! Let me keep this gem all to myself :D
Message: Posted by: El Satanico (Jul 3, 2008 12:17PM)
I managed to fight my way through some over zealous and borderline fanatical hatred of this effect based on it's name alone, I think we finally put that to rest but the one thing that has really saddened me is calling the creators of this effect to task over the "hype" surrounding the effect.

They have released numerous videos of the effect prior to it's release.

They then released more candid "in the pub" performances - so you the buyers could actually see audience reactions.

They gave the gimmick away FREE in Genii, so you can start to work on your own effects.

They have the buy-in of some of the biggest names in magic - not wanting to resort to pandering, but if magicians of the calibre of Jim Steinmeyer, Steve Dela and Angelo Carbone are backing this why would we call it into question? Especially why would we question it without having actually seeing the multitude of applications?

Far from hiding behind hype I think that the guys from the MagicCave have done everything in their power to disspell the myth and give us all the full facts. It's a far cry from the MTV style, jump cut, computer generated video promos we've become inundated with - instead of welcoming the real world performances they were told they were grainy! British pubs are pretty "grainy" at the best of times!

Maybe people will decide not to buy this based on the name alone, for some maybe the "guilt" around utilising the gimmick will count them out, but for the rest of us this is a wealth of opportunity.

Incidentally, an exact duplicate of their signed card, on the fly? I know a method - even as we speak I'm having custom pockets manufactured large enough to accommodate my photocopier...

Matt
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jul 5, 2008 04:42AM)
GOOD NEWS! We will be posting orders at the beginning of this week!
The DVD is PACKED full of effects- check the reviews that will be shortly appearing!

Thanks

Darius
Message: Posted by: El Satanico (Jul 9, 2008 08:39AM)
Hi All,

I went to The Magic Cave in Covent Garden today and saw the DVD's ready to roll. The DVD itself is a testiment to the thinking and the intent of the guys behind the project. Far from being a "one trick pony" it's over 2 hours of ideas from some really great names. I'll be picking mine up tomorrow.

Hopefully, the debate around the naming of an effect can be laid to rest and the true measure of it's worth be written on the faces of the people we perform this to. I for one am looking forward to coming up with my own effects and seeing what else the magic community can come up with using The Crystal Method as a jumping off point.

Matt
Message: Posted by: CardSnark (Jul 13, 2008 01:39PM)
But how can the spectators not notice the blurry card, unless the card is in terrible lighting like in the video? And doesn't having to hold the deck while they sign take something away from the effect?

EDIT: I'm wondering if the same effect or even better couldn't be done with some a household material and a little ingenuity.
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Jul 15, 2008 12:39AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-03 13:17, El Satanico wrote:
I managed to fight my way through some over zealous and borderline fanatical hatred of this effect based on it's name alone, I think we finally put that to rest but the one thing that has really saddened me is calling the creators of this effect to task over the "hype" surrounding the effect.

They have released numerous videos of the effect prior to it's release.

They then released more candid "in the pub" performances - so you the buyers could actually see audience reactions.

They gave the gimmick away FREE in Genii, so you can start to work on your own effects.

They have the buy-in of some of the biggest names in magic - not wanting to resort to pandering, but if magicians of the calibre of Jim Steinmeyer, Steve Dela and Angelo Carbone are backing this why would we call it into question? Especially why would we question it without having actually seeing the multitude of applications?

Far from hiding behind hype I think that the guys from the MagicCave have done everything in their power to disspell the myth and give us all the full facts. It's a far cry from the MTV style, jump cut, computer generated video promos we've become inundated with - instead of welcoming the real world performances they were told they were grainy! British pubs are pretty "grainy" at the best of times!

Maybe people will decide not to buy this based on the name alone, for some maybe the "guilt" around utilising the gimmick will count them out, but for the rest of us this is a wealth of opportunity.

Incidentally, an exact duplicate of their signed card, on the fly? I know a method - even as we speak I'm having custom pockets manufactured large enough to accommodate my photocopier...

Matt
[/quote]

I REALLY don't want to be negative here but..

I honestly don't care for endorsements. We all know how "friends" help friends...so, telling us "so and so" thinks it is hot won't make me reach for my wallet any quicker. If that is the selling point..well.

I hope it does well though, very creative.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Jul 15, 2008 09:47AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-13 14:39, CardSnark wrote:
But how can the spectators not notice the blurry card, unless the card is in terrible lighting like in the video? And doesn't having to hold the deck while they sign take something away from the effect?

EDIT: I'm wondering if the same effect or even better couldn't be done with some a household material and a little ingenuity.
[/quote]

The card is only blurry on its own. Once held against the deck/another card, you can see the card below it crystal clear.

As for holding onto the deck, have you never done that for a spectator to sign a card? You hold the deck like a table for them to write on.
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jul 15, 2008 08:08PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-13 14:39, CardSnark wrote:
EDIT: I'm wondering if the same effect or even better couldn't be done with some a household material and a little ingenuity.
[/quote]

To be fair, the same could be said of so many effects on the market. Besides which there are also routines on the DVD that utilise the entire Crystal Method deck. Sure, you probably could make yourself a deck if you really have that much time on your hands and don't care for the ideas on the DVD or the integrity aspect. (plus it would look shoddy)
Message: Posted by: Darius666 (Jul 16, 2008 08:38AM)
I played with a very similar a couple of years ago (and I have the same nickname as the creator!!!), but I thought it wasn't that good then, and going by what I got with Genii, I still don't think it's that great.

I don't see the point of having a card signed if it can't be examined, and in my professional work I would say more than half of my spectators ask if they can keep their card, which with this is a big no no!

Still, just my opinion.

Darius
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jul 16, 2008 09:22AM)
I think a drawing would be more appropriate, with identity theft as high as it is I would be upset if someone kept something with my signature.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jul 16, 2008 10:25AM)
Here is my take.

I got the card that came with genii. ok I was intrigued.

so as a little test

I put the card on the deck ( no writting on it ). asked my fiance to look at the card ( the top card of the deck, that had the "secret card" on top of it )

"hey take a look at this card"

"Ok, (squints) whats wrong with that card?"

result, not new technology. new trash. new technology would be totally clear with no glare. I understand why its frosted, but it just doesn't work in all situations it seems. I can see it working well however in a low light restaurant environment.

my fiance is pretty laymanish, I know its not the same but after 2.5 years false transfers, DL, and a even a TT vanish of a silk still fool her.
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Jul 16, 2008 11:03AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-16 11:25, Joshua Barrett wrote:
Here is my take.

I got the card that came with genii. ok I was intrigued.

so as a little test

I put the card on the deck ( no writting on it ). asked my fiance to look at the card ( the top card of the deck, that had the "secret card" on top of it )

"hey take a look at this card"

"Ok, (squints) whats wrong with that card?"
[/quote]

Well Joshua, what you did wrong was put undue heat on the gimmick. Why would you ask someone to simply look at a card, unless you were inviting them to try and find something wrong with it? This test proves nothing. A better test would be to go up to a laymen,and ask them to sign the card. Then take back the pen and say "Does everything seem fair so far?" If they say "No! That card was weird and blurry!" then I guess you can justly put this method in your trashbin. If they say "yes" then proceed with the rest of the trick.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jul 16, 2008 11:53AM)
Well it was from mere curiosity, there was no more heat on the gimmick the if I asked to sign it. in fact id say less heat and more distance. yes I know its not a "real world" condition. but then again I'm talking a immediate notice of it. not siting staring at. its not so much what was said but the instantaneous double-take look.

I'm not saying your not right, I'm saying id like it to be a bit more invisible.

think of it this way. if it did pass by with un-due heat, so to speak, how great would that be?

there is a lot of things if done that too and a lot of them went by fine. for example I have passed around a loaded "bill to lemon" and no one ever noticed, how it was resealed
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Jul 16, 2008 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-16 09:38, MagicMcQuade wrote:
I don't see the point of having a card signed if it can't be examined...
[/quote]

I think others and I have mentioned the effects are not all signature based.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Jul 16, 2008 05:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 18:59, Silvio Solaris wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 13:55, ziatabari wrote:
People seem stuck on signature ideas.

There are LOADS MORE EFFECTS than just signatures!!!
[/quote]

What do you mean? The main (selling) point of this effect is signature transfer from one to another card and/or ending up with an exact duplicate card with signature. Your statement is very contradicting my friend.
[/quote]

Exactly.

First it is been hyped like a new signature transfer principle then when people start complaining that is just some piece of trasparent something... the creators seem to patronize people because they are thinking about signatures and playing cards only!

One thing must be given to creators though. they were very honest and open from the start with the METHOD behind the thing: the name of the effect - CRYSTAL METHOD was very self-explaining !!!

And to me it was CRYSTAL CLEAR that the method was something like that.

All the discussion on the various drugs only served to sidetrack some people's mind from the IN PLAIN SIGHT method given away in the effect name.

and that's why I have not bought it. I waited because I really wanted someone to tell me it was a new,different thing and nothing like what I thought it was.

but that did not happen so I am glad I did not order this
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jul 17, 2008 09:33AM)
Hahaha

Has anyone who has made comments ACTUALLY seen the DVD??

So many amateur comments here - ''I only hand out signed cards'' - about as original an idea as ''pick a card!!''
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jul 17, 2008 11:10AM)
If someone signs a card they will want their signed card back. This is the reason I don't normally do signed card effects. I love the idea behind this but I don't think signed card effects will work in normal lighting. I think a drawing would be much more practical. Have a simple drawing named and make it move to another card.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jul 17, 2008 11:20AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-17 10:33, ziatabari wrote:
Hahaha

Has anyone who has made comments ACTUALLY seen the DVD??

So many amateur comments here - ''I only hand out signed cards'' - about as original an idea as ''pick a card!!''
[/quote]

does the DVD matter? its not hard to imagine what to do with the thing.

whats so amateur about handing out signed cards? this works well for a lot of people, a lot of professionals. so your saying its somehow "Original" to not hand out the cards? I'm not surprised, here in anonymous internet land all "original" ideas are good, no matter how stupid they really are.

I guess we have to remember its OK to praise and worship something as much as possible no matter how many problems it has. Any criticism is bad and down right shameful. all creations should be given awards for there effort, feelings might be hurt
Message: Posted by: Steve Dela (Jul 18, 2008 02:45PM)
I have tried to keep up with this thread but am afraid I am quite busy most of the time.

Demo Videos are grainy yes... the Pro DVD isn't! its done on a pro BBC style camera with great sound and good lighting. The ideas are brilliant and the jam session leaves you with even more ideas to try and develop.

I work as a close up magician and am not too bad at card magic. I have wacked this into my professional performances and when done correctly it gets great reactions. Amature magicians will always bang on about having to hand out signed cards and stuff like that but in the real world it is actually more impressive to vanish or remove the ink a spectator has written themselves.

Yes the card will look a tiny tiny tiny! bit more faded but who notices?real people don't and if they do it's your fault not the gimick! I bet the guys mentioning this are gona be the guys that say you can use a bright pink thumb tip? am I right :op

As to the copying of signatures. Basically you are tracing... if you are rubbish at tracing then initials is for you. If you are a tracing expert then try a whole signature! woo it could be fun!

Can we now drop the copying question? I am not sure who out of the creators has said what, because I can't read everything written but you can't copy cards but it is correct and NOT false advertising to say you can copy the signature! wack that over and dupe card, buy a shredder and you have a very clean torn and restored! yay!

The dvd is cool... has great ideas and is funny to watch too... I don't look as hot as I would have liked but I think that's the only down side.

enjoy guys and don't speculate too much. You don't have to buy it but I am sure those that do will be happy with their purchase.

Steve Dela AIMC
http://www.SteveDela.com
Message: Posted by: cardlover (Jul 18, 2008 06:51PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-18 15:45, Steve Dela wrote:
Amature magicians will always bang on about having to hand out signed cards and stuff like that but in the real world it is actually more impressive to vanish or remove the ink a spectator has written themselves.



Im not knocking this product, but the above statement made me laugh.

If you think that's stronger than having a signed card appear in an impossible location and the signed card can be handed out at the end, you got to be kidding yourself.

To imply only an "Amature" would think that way is a joke!

Used to be a product out that really did duplicate a signature and was built into a small stack of cards, but it had it's problems also.

Not trying to offend you, but I would be giving the selling points to the consumer and not trying to call people an "Amature" because their opinion is not the same as yours.

For a good while, people was thinkng this was something that could make a duplicate signature and those type of people have been in magic long enough to know what type of world that would open, NOT an "Amature".

Read thru the post and tell me, these people seem like Amature?

My advice is not to say such things, as the only ones that would buy that line IS an Amature.
Message: Posted by: wise owl (Jul 19, 2008 01:51AM)
I still haven't received mine yet. But all these arguments seem suggesting everyone already got their. Am I the only one??
Message: Posted by: Nathaniel (Jul 19, 2008 02:49AM)
Mine has a arrived 3 days ago!
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 19, 2008 04:34PM)
I got mine a few days ago....I was lucky enough to get a Signed Copy.....You can tell they put a lot of effort into this DVD and effect. The DVD is of the highest quality and the case of Crystal Method cards is exceptionaly made. There is over two hours of footage. One section is dedicated to Signature REMOVALS. If they sign the crystal method card, you can make their signature pour off of the card into their hand, leaving their card with smudged ink accross it. Or, their signature can appear written on a piece of paper that has been laminated shut. Handing out a signed card should be the least of your worries with this trick. The Jam session has great ideas such as making their signed card get pulled out of the hat at the end of Cardtoon. There is so much valuable information on this dvd and I personally think I got this for a cheap price. Thanks a lot guys!

Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jul 19, 2008 10:04PM)
I am definately not buying this...but I'd still like to hear something good from someone who is not friends with the creator and lives in the U.S.

It's funny that Darius himself, and even his friends try and come on here and say this is so great and the dvd is so GOOD...but honestly, it seems like you guys are just trying to boost your sales up. If the product really is as good as you say...let OTHER people say so, and not you or your friends. But so far most people are very disappointed with this (the people I think are legit and trustworthy...not some guy with 3 post on this topic only)
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 20, 2008 12:09AM)
I am not friends with the creator, nor do I live in the UK. I have heard about this from a friend and I pre ordered it. A while back my friend asked me to make an account and post a review on his effect called Alpha-Doodle. I did. On a forum I go to, Crystal Method came up, which also had a link to this topic. I browsed through and replied when I felt it was worth replying. I do not visit the Magic Café that often; I only visit now to check on this thread. I was not told to come onto this forum to post good reviews for Darius. I have come on this forum with my own choice and have posted only the truth.
But again I will say, if you don't want to buy it don't. This trick will not be for everyone, but those will be the people missing out on this great trick. I personally don't care if you buy it because you can leave me this gem all to my self.

Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jul 20, 2008 02:44AM)
Ok great, I hope you enjoy Crystal Method as much as others have...oh wait, nevermind people are actually disappointed. But like you said, it isn't for everyone.

Enjoy,
Art
Message: Posted by: Harry H (Jul 20, 2008 12:30PM)
A lot of hate on here!
I only have the free gimmick and methods that came with Genii,but I think it's a great trick.Even it's basic form-signature rubs off card or appears on different card.
So you can't hand it out,find a way around it.That's why we're magicians surely? To problem solve.


P.S I don't know the creator.
Message: Posted by: Frank A. Glastone (Jul 20, 2008 01:49PM)
I think its because everyone was led to believe there this was a signature duplication method. Then it turned out to be somethign clear(which doesn't look clear) the spectator signs on.

Oh well,
Message: Posted by: Steve Dela (Jul 21, 2008 07:54AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-18 19:51, cardlover wrote:

If you think that's stronger than having a signed card appear in an impossible location and the signed card can be handed out at the end, you got to be kidding yourself.

[/quote]

please don't put words in my mouth. I made no such comparison.

Steve Dela
Message: Posted by: cardlover (Jul 21, 2008 12:06PM)
Let me re-phrase

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]
On 2008-07-18 15:45, Steve Dela wrote:
Amature magicians will always bang on about having to hand out signed cards and stuff like that but in the real world it is actually more impressive to vanish or remove the ink a spectator has written themselves.


you got to be kidding yourself!!!!
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 21, 2008 08:31PM)
Ummm, Im on Steve's side with this. He never said it is not impressive to hand out a signed card, he said it wasnt AS impressive as removing the permanent ink from cardboard that the spectator has verified is their own. To have ink pour out of their card like water into their hand is very impressive, especially when moments ago, their signature was in full view, and now all remains is a smudge on their previously signed card. And then you can hand this card out if you would like. This to me is much better than finding a signed card and examining it. This has a whole extra step involved which makes it more magical for the spectators. Steve Dela has some exceptional ideas on this DVD and he is a top performer. He knows what he is talking about and so do I.
Regards,
Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jul 21, 2008 10:07PM)
[quote]
Ok great, I hope you enjoy Crystal Method as much as others have...oh wait, nevermind people are actually disappointed. But like you said, it isn't for everyone.
[/quote]

Art, firstly, could you point me in the direction of somebody who has actually reviewed the entire product with DVD who is dissapointed and not those who are just speculating as to what you can and can't do?

Secondly, as I had to make clear to another user previously everybody involved in this project has been perfectly transparent (!) about who they are on here. Myself, Darius, Steve Dela, Angelo Carbone etc. Any other posts from users who talk positively of the product are entirely genuine and not "mates" of the creators. The assumption you make is not true and entirely without foundation.

You know, I and the other guys involved in this welcome any constructive criticism both positive and negative, but why some fellow magicians feel the need to elevate this to a level of personal attack or unfounded malicious allegation says more about them than it does about us. It's a magic effect for crying out loud.

I grant you there are those that will like it and those that won't, or who won't see any use for it in their repetoire. You know, we are not forcing anybody to purchase this product and I think by the name and free sample in Genii we've tried to give people the opportunity to make that decision based on fact.

Regarding Genii, I'd also like to say that Richard Kaufman would not have included a free sample of a product in his magazine if he didn't see the value and possibilities available with it. Nor would Jim Steinmeyer have taken the time to create effects with it. Nor would several of the UK's top magicians have created effects and put them on the DVD.

I recently sent a sample of the DVD and product to a large magic distributor in the USA. Now I'm talking about people who get sent hundreds of ideas and effects to possibly market on a daily basis (many of which they turn down). When they saw Crystal Method I had an order the same day.

So I think it's fair to say whilst there will always be those who criticise and those who won't like it, there's an awful lot of magicians (many well known) who can see the potential of this product and the many possibilities it offers.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 21, 2008 10:59PM)
Nicely said Lee.....I think art is just caught up in the name still. This is where he started to dislike the product and nothing really happened to change that except POSITIVE feedback. The closest relationship to the creators I have is a friend from the UK, Jamie Daws, who knows a few of the creators from the trick.
Good job guys with the routines. At least I like it :S.....

Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jul 21, 2008 11:39PM)
When Isaw this I thought that this gimmick in the right hands could produce miracles. I am not as confident in my sleight of hand talents to pull this off. Can someone with only better than average sleight of hand skills pull this off?
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jul 22, 2008 06:06AM)
Thanks for your comments Nico.

Ted, it depends what effect you wish to do. There are a lot of routines on the DVD, some requiring little or no sleight of hand whereas others are far more technical.

There are individual routines that require you to do a good bluff pass, mercury fold, double lift and second deal. On the other hand, there are also routines that are self-working.
Message: Posted by: ElCineasta (Jul 22, 2008 06:19AM)
Hello all,

New poster here. Felt it's about time I joined in and rather than continue the debate of positive and negative comments on this product, I'd offer an objective based opinion and explain why I was interested in it. I own the full product, DVD and all!

My interest in this product only came about after seeing the "you will name this card" section on the demo video. As a Mentalist, the ability to predict things as easy and with freedom seemed awesome. I had no clue how it was done! So I pre-ordered! This was about 2-3 months ago. I had it on preorder a long time lol that's all I know.

A recent trip to London with a friend led me to Covent Garden where the creators of this effect have their shop. It was there I had the priviledge of meeting one of the creators, and actually the person behind "you will name this card", Neil Henry. I didn't know that at the time though because as yet did not have the actual product..in fact...I didn't know what the Gimmick was! Anyway, it was mentioned that there was this free sample in Genii magazine so me and my friend switfly went off and bought Genii magazine.
Curiousity killed the cat! Literally! The secret which lay before our eyes didn't inspire confidence.
Bear in mind however that before I'd even seen the gimmick myself, I'd read on here all the comments on how it's really obvious to spot etc so I guess I was looking for that aspect of it.

Anyway, we messed around with it, signed it and played around with colour changes, signature transpo's etc that's about all we could do with ONE SIGNED card. Therein lies the problem with reviewing the product on just THAT basis. once we'd signed it, that's all it could ever be! and without buying another Genii mag we only had one and ONE SIGNED card is NOT the product you get as a final product. But a decision had to be made by myself after seeing the secret. Do I stick with my preorder or let my disheartened attitude make me cancel? Well, I had my confidence in the DVD so I stuck with it and just said to myself "let's just see what the finished product is like".

A few weeks go by and then I receieve Crystal Method. Firstly, the packaging is well presented. The DVD is of excellent visual quality, clear and well presented. My DVD case was adorned with the signatures of all the creators too which was rather cool! And the packaging for the gimmicks themselves is rather neat as well. Rather than your average Bike card case, the gimmicks are held in a neat little plastic box with gold printed design and lettering. lol what can I say? I'm easily won over by nice presentation! With renewed excitement for the product I sat down to watch the DVD.

Crystal Method ROCKS! See what happened? I saw the sample, thought "oh dear", persevered, got the dvd and...."Crystal Method ROCKS" Now, maybe that's because I sat down and watched the DVD with excitement that's biased my feelings somewhat? Perhaps it's time then to try "you will name this card" on my friend who came with me to London. If it goes badly, then my excitement will be short lived. After all, the best test is a real world test. And no, he was not around when I received Crystal Method.

So I meet up with him and I say as an off beat casual question "just out of curiousity, if you were to name any card, what would it be?". He named the "Jack of Spades". I gave a little smile and proceeded to remove a pack of ordinary cards from their case. I fanned them to show him the faces and proceeded to take out and HAND HIM the jack of spades. "Hold onto this for a moment then as this is the card you named. Now you could have named ANY card, in fact, any one of these remaining 51 cards" I proceeded to turn all the cards over and show the backs as normal red backed bikes. "But you named THAT card there, the Jack of Spades, turn it over for me". He turns it over and right big and bold in front of him is a.......Crystal Method card! HA! lol :-p no, in all seriousness, in front him is a playing card that says "you will name this card". My friend's not easily amazed by much stuff being a magician himself but lol he was very confused!! "how the.....?..huh?" after I'd picked myself up from laughing at how well the first test had gone, and it wasn't even on a laymen, I simply smiled at him and said "Crystal Method" pointing at the card. After seeing what he'd seen in Genii he honestly didn't believe me! So I removed the gimmick and handed it to him. He was very impressed! reason's it worked? We chatted about it afterwords and he said the reason he dismissed Crystal Method as how it was done is because I handed him very confidently the card to hold onto. HE held it, HE turned it over..never me! Anyone who's read Kenton Knepper's Miracles of Suggestion should know being confident in performing gives off a powerful suggestion of cleanliness so it never crossed his mind during the performance the card he held was "dodgy" (lol so to speak). THIS is how to test if CM works!! NOT "hey mate, look at this playing card" HELLO?! that's as bad as "here I have a pack of ORDINARY 52 playing cards". The reason I performed it so calmly first time was cos it was purely for me to see if he'd notice so if the aim was to see if he'd notice, why panic about it? So I came across relaxed, he never noticed and was amazed by it, and therefore... Crystal Method works! However, from my experience with it, I'd personally say it works better on the BACKS of cards..very invisible!

Ive since come up with an effect I like to perform that gets great reactions (road tested on laymen) which is basically like Gobsmacked or Simon Lovell's "your card, my card" effect where they deal face up into a pile and stop whenever it feels right. The card is then shown to be the ONLY card that quite clearly says "you will STOP on this card" The beauty of this version as opposed to Gobsmacked and Your card, my card is that you can spread the remaining deck fully....there aren't any more gimmicks to find. oh, and their card they stop on is in their hand just like "name the card".

It's not all singing and dancing however as when compared to the REST of the cards, the Crystal Method'd card IS distinctly different on whatever side is showing the gimmick. BUT, work with it!! For effects like STOP as I call it, show the backs of all the cards, then turn them face up and square up into a pile on the table and talk to the spec about why they stopped on the card in their hand. It's a powerful technique of Time Misdirection. They're now thinking about why they chose their card and they CAN'T see the backs of the pack. When they turn over the card and see the "message", they are NOT going to go "wait a minute, this is a different shade of red!!"

Back to what you get. The DVD is packed with brilliant effects and not all of them are Signed effects (well, ive just named two for a start). One of my favourites which I performed first time a couple of days ago is a brilliant effect by Lee Hathoway which involves a pint of water. Now Im gonna come out and say it..the gimmick was NOTICED!! My Fault! Smacked my wrist already! Bad spec management! also bad positioning! I was performing in a pub for two female friends and one was sat right beside me! She noticed! So I just gave her a knowing wink and continued because I wasn't performing it on her anyway so the story continues. I did the effect on the girl opposite and you could have picked her jaw up from the table afterwards. That to me outweighed the mistake of two minute's prior! About the effect: It's a Non-Signed effect, very original and brilliant idea. There honestly is more to CM than signing cards. Get beyond signing cards and CM is a bit of a beauty.

I apologise for the length of this, especially as it's my first post, but I wanted to share REAL stories rather than speculation and short reviews that have currently plagued this topic thus far. I doubted it when I saw Genii but I stuck with it and to be honest, it's the Non-Signed effects that impress me the most and the laymen ive performed on thus far and they're on the DVD! Which you don't get the benefit of with Genii's ONE SIGNABLE card.

Like any Gimmick it needs clever thinking and spec management but that's the challenge of you as a performer to create, not the gimmick's!
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 22, 2008 10:57AM)
Nice to know I'm not the only one that likes it.....Now, I have actually discovered a way to remove the signatures from the crystal method card without ruining and destroying it. I have been using my first gimmick that I received in Genii for about 3-4 weeks now, and it is completely flawless. If you have any interest then PM me and I will share it with you. But only with proof of purchase of the DVD not Genii. Back to the effects. There is over 20 routines and ideas from these people which makes it already worth it. I have already sparked some ideas off of these tricks such as having their signature appear written on the box, under the cellophane so there is no way that you could have done it. If anyone is wondering, here is a picture of what you get:

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3850/photo1ns9.jpg[/img][/url]

On the left is the DVD. I preordered mine very early so I received a signed copy. On the right is my favorite. The crystal method case. This case holds the deck of 52 crystal method cards. It is very well made and has a nice gold engraving.

that's all I have to say for now. Hope those who bought it enjoy it.
Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jul 22, 2008 06:57PM)
Hmmmm, I really don't care for this effect and I honestly don't know why I even posted here again.

Don't worry though...

I'm gone.
Message: Posted by: ElCineasta (Jul 23, 2008 07:34AM)
Which "effect" are you talking about?

Crystal Method is a Utility device, not an Effect. The "effect" is whatever you decide to come up with to do with it. If the METHOD is what you don't care for then that's different and fair enough.
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jul 23, 2008 08:12AM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-22 19:57, Art190 wrote:
Hmmmm, I really don't care for this effect and I honestly don't know why I even posted here again.

Don't worry though...

I'm gone.
[/quote]

Don't you just hate the way that some people post on threads like this without having anything useful or relevant to say...

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jul 23, 2008 10:32AM)
"Don't you just hate the way that some people post on threads like this without having anything useful or relevant to say...

Bubble "

LOL Sorry but I cant help but LAUGH OUT LOUD at your statement. You said I posted without having anything useful or relevant to say...but look at your own post! What's so useful about your post?? LOL. I guess you hate yourself as well, or at least the way you post.


Well, I cant help it..I guess I'm back. I just felt I had to respond to your post lol.

PS: Sorry if I had nothing useful to say.
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jul 25, 2008 12:55PM)
You're going Art? But the party's just started - we were starting to get on well....and you look cute in your pic ;-)
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jul 25, 2008 03:26PM)
Sarcasm must just be something that happens to other people! It was supposed to be funny. Not serious. Read it again. Possible ask a friend to help with some of the more taxing words and maybe just maybe you'll get it.

I increased the sarcasm a notch or too just in case you missed it again...

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Jul 25, 2008 03:30PM)
[quote]
On 2008-07-25 13:55, Lee_Hathaway wrote:
You're going Art? But the party's just started - we were starting to get on well....and you look cute in your pic ;-)
[/quote]

You see, Lee understands sarcasm. He also managed to throw in a little patronising as well... Good man Lee ;-)

Bubble
Message: Posted by: Art190 (Jul 25, 2008 05:37PM)
Saying it was sarcasm is just an "out" for you.

Lee, yes I was going to leave this thread because I felt sorry for you guys. I didn't want to ruin your sales..I know you guys try very hard to get as much people to buy it as possible by saying great things about your own products.

Anyway, this time I'm really gone...no matter what you say :)

Art
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Jul 25, 2008 07:13PM)
Oooh Art you're such a tease!

We should hook up...send me a bigger pic of you...you'd LOVE my bottom deal ;-)
Message: Posted by: Doc Magic (Jul 26, 2008 11:35AM)
I have to say at first I was excited about the possibilities with this card that I received in Genii, but after performing it I quickly changed my mind. Although most people still semi-enjoyed the effect, they definitely weren't astonished by any means. You can see it in their facial expressions when someone is completely blown away vs. being left highly suspect. I'm finding skepticism to be the norm when performing these effects. After discussion with some of the spectators most nailed it right on the head and thought they weren't really signing the card they chose, and that the card looked different like something was over it. Personally I only keep the best in my routines for the spectators sake of enjoyment, and for that reason this one is not going in the bottom of a drawer but the trash can.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 26, 2008 04:10PM)
Well...obviously you are not performing it correctly. The Crystal Method gimmick is invisible if you do it correctly. I have blown away people with the routines on the DVD. The DVD goes over presentational aspects that will help sell the fact that you have a regular card. A lot of people are jumping the gun here and thinking that they know everything just because they have Genii. Once someone actually purchases the DVD and says that Crystal Method is horrible and that you cant use it without someone noticing it, Then I will listen. Those routines were included in Genii because they aren't on the DVD. Angelo Carbone's fabulous creation is the only one on the DVD that is in Genii. don't judge the product before you experience the full blow of it.
Message: Posted by: ted french (Jul 26, 2008 10:00PM)
Can you perform this in the daylight without being caught?
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 26, 2008 10:03PM)
Yes you can. You cannot perform it under bright fluorescent lights but any other lighting condition should be fine.
Message: Posted by: Doc Magic (Jul 27, 2008 01:14PM)
Actually Nico, judgment is to each his own, it's called freedom of speech. Since you are not as familiar, an open forum such as this is designed for exactly that. A heated or emotional response if you will isn't necessary because it it's not an argument but rather a collective arena for different perspectives. I'm thrilled that you enjoy the effect so much, I on the other hand do not. Accusations of mal-performance is childish behavior at best and not necessary. This diversity in opinions is what allows other readers to decide for themselves if this sounds like a good effect for them to invest in or not. State your opinions about the topic at hand and allow others to interpret it as they will. Let us focus on the effect itself and not each other, remember we are all here because we are magicians sharing a commonality of loving the art.
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jul 27, 2008 01:36PM)
Isn't it funny how EVERY post of Nick's is in this thread?
Message: Posted by: Doc Magic (Jul 27, 2008 02:29PM)
My thoughts exactly! Almost all 14 posts in their divine wisdom poured into one single topic.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 27, 2008 03:32PM)
1. I have posted in more topics than just this.
2. I was not being childish. I was mainly pointing out that you, and everyone else, do not have a complete knowledge of this effect without the dvd. The dvd goes over things that you need to know to perform this effect correctly. You said that we should state our opinions about the topic to help readers decide wether to purchase this effect but you made an opinion on what you saw in Genii. Not in the Crystal Method.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jul 27, 2008 03:43PM)
The gimmick can be seen by anybody with eyes, and who bothers to look.

Not deceptive, and no matter how many times guys like "Nick" post about how great an effect it is, the fact that the gimmick is visible renders it somewhat useless for card workers.

It also changes black pips to grey, and red pips to "rose".
The white background of the card face also changes to an off-white color.
The gimmick is totally visible from the side of the deck when on the top or bottom of the deck.
Cut anywhere into the deck the gimmick renders a SOLID black line.

Lame no matter HOW many potential uses, effects, and "utility" suggestions get shoveled onto the DVD.
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Jul 27, 2008 04:39PM)
I hope nick is getting some cash for all his hard work on this thread.

Silver King makes excellent points which a potential buyer should know. Its these points that make the hundred million effects on the dvd null and void because you wont use the thing.

I had high hopes for this. Like enlightenment, this will be be retired to the money pit AKA : "The tricks I don't use" drawer
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Jul 27, 2008 05:42PM)
Okay. Silver King. There is a black line while the card is in the middle of the deck. If you hold the deck in mechanics script, that should cover both edges, and your index finger should be covering most of the front. Unless you place the deck in front of their face, they will not notice it because at the times when you have crystal method inside of the deck, you never have it near them. Either the deck is spread or down at your side.

Now, on another note, I disagree with the visibility of the gimmick. I took a picture of me holding two dupes in each hand, one with crystal method and the other without. The duplicate with the crystal method is on the right side of each pair.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9784/photo2jw8.jpg[/img][/url]

You can see that there is a slight difference between the two cards but, they wont see both at the same time to compare.
Message: Posted by: Doc Magic (Jul 27, 2008 07:53PM)
Nico, that's why I selectively phrased it almost fourteen posts, key word being almost. I must say it’s hard to tear myself away from this riveting conversation, but moving on...

I couldn't agree more "silverking", as an up-close practitioner, the gimmick lacks deceptiveness when it comes to signature effects. As the saying goes, spectators are smarter than we give them credit for, and I truly believe they pick up on this gimmick be it consciously or subconsciously. Either way, I think we would all have to agree that any doubt left in the spectators mind lessens the astonishment. The goal is to provide utter disbelief, absolutely no logical explanation. It is only then that you have achieved “real” magic. I believe we must all remain highly selective in the magical pieces that we perform. With so many effects being released it’s easy to become overwhelmed vs. carefully choosing effective and relevant pieces that suit each others performing styles. Crystal method may achieve that for some, but I suspect it is those few who actually lack appropriate selectiveness. I’ll finish as I started, to each his own.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Jul 27, 2008 09:02PM)
[quote]
The duplicate with the crystal method is on the right side of each pair.
[/quote]
LOL, there's absolutely no need to post that line, as even in your incredibly grainy, back-lit and dim photo the right hand card in each set stands out like a sore thumb.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Jul 28, 2008 06:42AM)
The gimmick is not obvious- it's been used hundreds on times and floored both magicians and laymen.
Go to the Magic Cave in Covent garden to see it in action!
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (Jul 28, 2008 07:40AM)
Mine arrived today and I must say. Im impressed. I like it, alot..
Message: Posted by: Steve Dela (Jul 28, 2008 08:20AM)
I have to give myself a big pat on the back as I have managed to fool people with the crystal method!
Infact for those that have the DVD, you can even see all the creators fooling people! its amazing to see it in action.
Oh and I have no financial interest in this which has been suggest to me by someone.

let the good times role!

Steve Dela
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jul 28, 2008 08:36AM)
Why is "fooling magicians" a benchmark. it has been my experience that 95% of magicians are easier to fool then laymen. iv found this true for almost anything in cards in coins for the members of my local ibm. they already have a conviction on how they think things are done, it does not take much to screw off that road. that's why people can lecture total old tarbell stuff ( and the room oh's and ahh's ). no offense to anyone but iv literally seen a whole room of magicians "get blowed away" from dave solomans version of the 21 card trick ( not kidding ).

lay people tend to hit spot on, and frankly most are nice enough not to say anything. a lot of guys do bad moves and think "they never get caught" *cough winter control cough*. id have to wonder of that is the case here.

mind you I don't own this, just a thought for discussion.
Message: Posted by: Steve Dela (Jul 31, 2008 09:11AM)
In the UK people will say if they see you do a move. Trust me! We arn't that nice unfortunatly and working here as a magician is very tough! british lay people arn't easy to please and to get good reactions out of us isn't easy.

I do agree magicians are often easier to fool though.

Steve Dela
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 1, 2008 04:12PM)
Hey Nic.

[img]http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/415/beatdeadhorseua0.gif[/img]


(thanks to the mac for the pic)
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 2, 2008 03:34PM)
I don't get it....
Message: Posted by: lunatik (Aug 2, 2008 05:53PM)
Beating a dead horse!
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 2, 2008 09:22PM)
I get that part....I just don't get how that is related to me, or crystal method.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 2, 2008 10:32PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-01 17:12, R. Dunn wrote:
Hey Nic.

[img]http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/415/beatdeadhorseua0.gif[/img]


(thanks to the mac for the pic)
[/quote]

Wow - Now that is a utility item I'll actually use in presentations etc. - thanks Mr. Dunn!
Message: Posted by: Frank A. Glastone (Aug 3, 2008 02:45PM)
That dead horse thing is darn funny. Especially once you read through all of Nicos' posts.
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 3, 2008 03:54PM)
Glad everyone is enjoying this, and there's no better place for it than here in this tread (for now anyway).
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (Aug 3, 2008 04:36PM)
I have saved and loved the flogging the dead horse pic but it does not apply to this effect. I just had a corp gig tongiht. I used a few effects from crystal and the went over great. I love it, I am honest about my personal reviews and this works. I love it
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 3, 2008 04:46PM)
Alan, to each his own. This is split between those who love it and those who are disappointed.The horse was a playful jab at Nicos because of his posts,98% of which are in this thread.
Message: Posted by: JamieD (Aug 3, 2008 07:24PM)
I recieved mine last week. This is everything I was expecting and so much more. I had played around with the enitial gimmick from the Gennii Magazine but this is absolutly Fantastic! After recieveing it, I had the fortunate idea of creating a version of Blaines Signed card to bottle. This has made it so much easier! I have also had NO problems with performing with Crystal Method. This this is gold! Very pleased and proud to own this!

JamieD
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 4, 2008 01:42AM)
Actually Dunn, only about 50 - 55% are in this thread ;)
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Aug 4, 2008 08:15AM)
That photo is the best thing iv seen in a while!
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 4, 2008 09:51AM)
The Scope photo of R.Dunn is that?
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Aug 4, 2008 08:05PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-03 17:46, R. Dunn wrote:
Alan, to each his own. This is split between those who love it and those who are disappointed.The horse was a playful jab at Nicos because of his posts,98% of which are in this thread.
[/quote]

Not true. This is split between those who are speculating and making assumptions about a product they do not own, and those who actually own the product, who have watched the DVD and are aware of the possibilities it offers.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 4, 2008 08:13PM)
Exactly....The point I was trying to make all along here is that people are making their opinions on what they get in Genii. With Genii, you get the crystal method gaff, but not any of the real methods that people who own the dvd are talking about. People are being too quick and quite frankly, a bit stuffed up about their opinion.
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 5, 2008 03:01AM)
Well, correct me if I'm wrong but..

opinions in here are mostly based on the genii sample. I fail to see what difference a dvd makes if the spectator can see one card is not like the others.
the dvd might have numerous effects but at the end of the day it does not change the gimmick.

Either way please refer to the horse.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 5, 2008 04:57AM)
What a rediculous comment Dunn

If I gave you the MacDonalds Aces for example, with no explanation as to how to perform some of the moves (ie. no DVD), sure, you could have a few basic ideas, but your missing the bulk of the effect or potential.

Imagine even doing the omnideck with the crystal method ! There are loads of effects the full deck allow.

PS- think you need a new photographer/haircut!
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 5, 2008 05:23AM)
Lol

I enjoy toying with these fanboys.

You clearly missed the point.Macdonalds aces is an effect, not a ultility item. No amount of effects on a dvd will prevent a spectator from picking up the differences that slimking pointed out. Maybe you have the gimmick infront of your eyes and can't read properly.

Do you guys ever post in any other threads ?
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 5, 2008 08:57AM)
Macdonalds Ace is a card. Not an effect.
What effects have you published?
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 5, 2008 10:10AM)
No , its an effect. With your last post you have given us a good measure of your knowledge. I have not published anything...hang on, did you publish Crystal Method?
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 5, 2008 10:57AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 02:42, Nico Zottos wrote:
Actually Dunn, only about 50 - 55% are in this thread ;)
[/quote]

Yeah, um, except that at the time of the initial post stating that ALMOST all of your posts were in this thread, almost all of your posts WERE in this thread.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Aug 5, 2008 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:57, ziatabari wrote:
What effects have you published?
[/quote]

curious... why does that matter one bit. "Publishing" in this day and age takes little effort and is no meter for quality what so ever.

again, why can people not want to buy this product. everyone goes into a out rage "Because I think its great!" well not everyone does. who cares? it fasicinates me the defensive response of people who have no financial stake in a product.
Message: Posted by: silverking (Aug 5, 2008 12:07PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:57, ziatabari wrote:
Macdonalds Ace is a card. Not an effect.
What effects have you published?
[/quote]
I'd lobby the Café mods pretty heavily if I were you, and ask that they delete your brilliant new (and completely out to lunch) description of "McDonalds Aces".

There's no such thing as a "McDonald's Ace Card", although it seems like something a newbie might presume exists. You may just have to leave the Café and sign back up under a new screen name to avoid ongoing humiliation.

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 5, 2008 01:48PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-03 17:46, R. Dunn wrote:
The horse was a playful jab at Nicos because of his posts,98% of which are in this thread.
[/quote]

Glen, this was what I was referring to.
Message: Posted by: Alan Rorrison (Aug 5, 2008 05:04PM)
Guys come on this is getting petty now. Some people like the effect and some don't. Lets be mature and leave it there
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Aug 5, 2008 05:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:57, ziatabari wrote:
Macdonalds Ace is a card. Not an effect.
What effects have you published?
[/quote]

Louis Tannen Inc published MacDonald's $100 Four Ace Trick by Frank Garcia as the second item in their New Stars of Magic back in 1973. The item is a routine - and not a bad handling of Hofzinser's card assembly trick using some gaffed cards.

Now as to having published works... yeah I have - and so what?

How about taking a moment search via google to get some background information? IMHO it can't hurt to do a little research/reading before offering a strong opinion.
Message: Posted by: gdw (Aug 5, 2008 09:42PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 14:48, Nico Zottos wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-03 17:46, R. Dunn wrote:
The horse was a playful jab at Nicos because of his posts,98% of which are in this thread.
[/quote]

Glen, this was what I was referring to.
[/quote]

Well, I highly doubt that he makes a regular habit of checking all of your posts for updates, and thus was going off of data he had already gathered.

In the mean time you have diversified your posting locations, and only after the initial observation.

Then your post "clarifying" your post distribution after the fact only makes it look like you went out and made other posts only so you could prove him wrong.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 5, 2008 10:25PM)
***There's no such thing as a "McDonald's Ace Card"***

Uh huhhhhhh.... I got one with my Happy Meal once along with a Ronald McDonald Secret Decoder Ring and Whistle!
I'm published in a journal of equine dentistry, does that count?
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Aug 6, 2008 04:47AM)
No, Darius did not publish Crystal Method, we did....and he's an idiot for passing comment on McDonalds Aces when he knows not of what he speaks. I'll be sure to slap him when I see him....

R.Dunn, with regards to your original observation regarding the gimmick in Genii, I can understand how you may feel you can look at that and ascertain the practicability of it and consequently don't need the DVD to make a full judgement. However I feel this attitude is misplaced as many of the ideas and routines on the DVD never bring the gimmick into open/blatant view of the volunteer and as such stand up as strong routines.

I would urge you to view me performing my "Think Outside The Box" routine on Youtube which uses a Crystal Method gimmick although it's never in view. The link is here (sorry for poor quality, filmed in the pub!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYXZfS7cq0k

PS: Mickeypainless - you published a journal on Equine Dentistry - perhaps you can put a smile on R.Dunns face once and for all!
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 6, 2008 06:04AM)
I smile everytime I see a new post from the 2 guys ,nicos and that other chap who's not important enough to name
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 6, 2008 08:05AM)
Haha- apologees for the MacDonald's comment- I was a kid when I bought it!
My point is that there is so much more that can be done with an entire deck or crystal method, and an excellent DVD full of effects and creative thoughts.

Dunn's comment that one card in Genii is all you need to comment on the trick is moronic!
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 6, 2008 08:12AM)
Has anyone who has WATCHED the DVD got any useful magical comments or creative comments to add?
Message: Posted by: El Satanico (Aug 6, 2008 11:34AM)
Wow, things got ugly since I last signed in...

On Darius' last comment I have the DVD and currently I'm performing a modified version of "The Autograph Collector" by Daniel Young. In my routine the spectator's signature end up in my wallet printed on an advertising card for an escort agency - this is in keeping with the audiences I perform for and the locations I perform, however I'm also looking at having the signature appear on a laminated contract in my wallet - just playing around with ideas at the moment.

I liked the DVD, but I wouldn't perform all the effects, not because I feel they will not entertain the audience but that they will not suit my style of performance. In considering new effects this is the first question I ask - "Will it suit me?".

I think that the vast majority of effects that are released are well intentioned and genuinely seek to create a magical effect - I don't think there are creators who intentionally release bad effects to the market - if there are I'm lucky to have not encountered them. In discussing an effect it would be good to take a step back and remember that despite the anonimity afforded by the internet other posters are still people and attacking them over a magic trick is ultimately redundant.

So in the spirit of magician's coming together, checking their ego's at the door...does anyone have any useful, practical applications for this gimmick?

Matt
Message: Posted by: silverking (Aug 6, 2008 11:49AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-06 09:12, ziatabari wrote:
Has anyone who has WATCHED the DVD got any useful magical comments or creative comments to add?
[/quote]
[b]All[/b] comments are useful mate.
This is a forum where magicians discuss any and all aspects of an effect without being told what is, and what isn't OK to say.

If you're looking for a rah-rah forum where nobody says anything negative about the effect, those types of forums are usually operated and moderated by the folks that are selling the effect.

Quite honestly, McDonalds Aces in its various forms is a cornerstone of card magic. I'd have to question your ability to enter into discussions whereupon you render a personal opinion on what somebody else posts in terms of their opinion on [b]any[/b] card effect.

Back to the effect. Earlier I posted a comment whereupon I observed that when a single gaff is placed into a normal deck, it renders an easily seen pitch black line around the entire deck.
The response was along the lines of "oh yeah, but you just hide that with a mechanics grip".

Hide it?, what a load. This is just bad design.

I also pointed out that the gaff, when placed either on the back or face of a card is easily visible, and changes the color of the card it's placed against.
A photo was then posted, which despite the poorly (back-lit) lit, grainy scene, still renders the gaff [b]easily[/b] visible.
When I pointed that out, some lame comment relating to that not mattering was all that came in retort. Apparently this "utility device" requires the performer to use a mechanics grip at all times, and make sure that the spec can't see either the face, or the back of the deck.

Perhaps this could be the worlds first effect where [b]every[/b] effect using the gaff takes place [b]inside[/b] a paper bag.

Sometimes, effects are interesting in their concept, but weak in their deployment.
This is one of those effects.

Now here's where all those posters (who, interestingly enough all live in the U.K. likely in the effects creators second bedroom) can post saying that nothing I've pointed out matters, and that [b]they[/b] perform the effect every night to dropped jaws, and offers of friendship.

That type of response, although easy, does nothing to deal with things like the fact that the gaff renders a [b]solid black line[/b] around the circumference of the deck.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Aug 6, 2008 02:05PM)
Silver....the reason you could see the gaff so easily was because there were two dupes right next to eachother. My point of that picture was to show that yes, there is a difference between the two cards BUT I stated that they wont notice because they wont see a Crystal Method card on a 9 of Hearts and a regular 9 of Hearts like I showed. I did explain about the black line. There is one, but when the deck is being held in mechanics script, the two sides will be covered, and the front will be partially covered by your index finger. When you have the Crystal Method card in the deck causing the black line, the deck will not be infront of them. it will be down by your side. If you hold the deck in biddle grip, your hand will be in motion and you will be talking to the spectator. What really makes you think the spectator will be looking at the edge of the deck down by your side while your doing something with their card on the table. This wont happen. The only two effects that require the card in the middle is when they sign a card behind their back and then cut the deck and hand you the pack back. Now the crystal card is in the middle but you will be holding the deck in mechanics script as you patter. Now you spread the pack, tilting it towards the specs so they can see. This tilts the edge of the deck downwards, hiding the black line. This is the same for the second effect.

that's all I have to say for now.

Regards,
Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 7, 2008 02:45AM)
What do you guys think of this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYXZfS7cq0k
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 7, 2008 04:21AM)
Wow!I'm even getting pm's from Mr. Macdonalds ace card now. its obvious now that you guys have some sort of reward -financial, you are the creators in disguise , or there is some exchange of "favours"
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 7, 2008 06:24AM)
Can we focus on the effects on the DVD? (for those that have watched the DVD!!)
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 7, 2008 06:52AM)
No,
lets focus on what the SPECTATOR SEES! which is the gimmick.
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Aug 7, 2008 07:14AM)
I imagine you don't use a thumb-tip for the same reasons? A wise move. I tried for ages without success. I showed my thumb to so many people but they always seemed to notice that it was a slightly different shade to my skin tone, or looked plastic or elongated. Why anyone thinks something so blatant has any merit is beyond me - you're a smart boy!

PS: Don't get me started on the Sanada Gimmick - totally crazy!
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 7, 2008 07:39AM)
Yes - but the spectator doesn't sign your thumbtip
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Aug 7, 2008 06:57PM)
Which is precisely why my friend you should watch the DVD before passing comment.

Eight of the 11 routines on the DVD do not require the spectator to EVER stare blatantly at a CM card or sign one and those that do are managed in such a way that the presentation and handling allows for this.
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 7, 2008 10:52PM)
But I want it to do whats on the box, impossible spectator signed effects.
Message: Posted by: ziatabari (Aug 8, 2008 09:22AM)
To be fair Dunn, I think anyone who comments on a product they don't own, is like the blind leading the blind..

Same for any product, any person...

More interesting to hear comments from:
-Someone who has the product and has seen the routines
-Someone who has had successes within professionally peforming the effect
-Someon who brings creative input to the table..
Message: Posted by: Frank A. Glastone (Aug 8, 2008 12:29PM)
Well we did get the sample in genii so do "own" the product. The whole point of the genii giveaway was so that peopole could try it and form an opinion on it.
Message: Posted by: Dr Spektor (Aug 8, 2008 04:31PM)
Heck if it an excellent product, it will self itself without any needed hype...

If it is excellent, why bother with this thread trying to convince people who don't like it or are just shooting it down? Let people judge comments from the sources.

Excellent products get great reviews and a couple of nay sayers. For example Extractor... I got it at the beginning and you don't see any hype... just people scrambling to get it... my only chagrin, that now more North Americans have it :(...

Good luck with this product! If it is excellent, it will establish itself as a must have!
Message: Posted by: fooksau (Aug 8, 2008 05:15PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-08 10:22, ziatabari wrote:
To be fair Dunn, I think anyone who comments on a product they don't own, is like the blind leading the blind..

Same for any product, any person...

More interesting to hear comments from:
-Someone who has the product and has seen the routines
-Someone who has had successes within professionally peforming the effect
-Someon who brings creative input to the table..
[/quote]

I don't own this. And here's some creative input: I'm not going to buy it!
Message: Posted by: Zerububle (Aug 8, 2008 05:41PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 06:23, R. Dunn wrote:
Lol

I enjoy toying with these fanboys.
[/quote]

Im pretty sure this sort of thing is illegal in most states
Message: Posted by: R. Dunn (Aug 9, 2008 04:43AM)
Not the kind of toying you've done to know in which states its illegal.Im not surprised though, with the undying love in this thread by nicos and ziatabari(whatever).
Message: Posted by: Lee_Hathaway (Aug 9, 2008 07:30PM)
Actually, homosexuality isn't illegal anywhere in the United States these days. The last few homosexual sodomy laws were invalidated by a case in the US Supreme court a couple of years ago.....and that's coming from someone who really has toyed around enough to know the facts ;-)

So R.Dunn, now we've cleared that up how about a date next time I'm over in the USA?...i can bring the Crystal Method DVD and we'd have so much to talk about...I already feel like I almost know you...