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Topic: Myrtle Beach Busking Law
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 7, 2008 12:42PM)
I just found out about this, scroll down to Section 19-173, I believe it is now law:

http://www.cityofmyrtlebeach.com/eventfinal.html



I don't know how they expect people to earn the $50 fee when hat lines are not allowed ... but that's government for ya.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: gaddy (May 7, 2008 01:11PM)
When you think of the many, many hours of legal fees that must have gone into that piece of municipal ordinance, probably on the order of tens of thousands of dollars worth, just to make it legally impossible for you to make a 100$ hat... It's enough to make you want to just give up... I'm sure that was the whole point.

I've often wanted to go back to Myrtle Beach, where my family would often vacation when I was a youth, but now, not so much...
Message: Posted by: tboehnlein (May 7, 2008 02:22PM)
TRy this as a hat line Folks as I lay ma hat before YOU please let me repeat to you a portion of the Myrtle Beach Muncipal code for you to consider for it's own absurdity & levity"In any manner of performance, a performer may not by word, conduct or signage solicit money before, during or after the performance as such a request would constitute an unlawful solicitation. Provided however, a performer may accept an unsolicited donation in a plain receptacle, such as an open musical instrument case, box or hat(as you are juggling your hat). The display of a receptacle shall not be considered solicitation."
Message: Posted by: mrunge (May 7, 2008 07:11PM)
Yep...your government at work.

I wonder if one can continue to busk given the code talks about not SOLICITING money and taking, literally, (see below) the definition of that word. Since one sets up a pitch and stands there and people come to them, one might have a case. Just don't (1) "approach", (2)"urge strongly", (3) "lure especially into evil", (4)"try to obtain...by urgent request."

It's like splitting hairs and the parsing of words. Remember, we had a recent President once say "It depends on what the meaning of the word IS, IS."

Maybe a busker can do the same!

Mark. :worry:

Myrtle Beach, SC - Special Events Ordinance
Sec. 19-173. Time, Place and Manner Permitted Performances.
Item 9...
"In any manner of performance, a performer may not by word, conduct or signage solicit money before, during or after the performance as such a request would constitute an unlawful solicitation. Provided however, a performer may accept an unsolicited donation in a plain receptacle, such as an open musical instrument case, box or hat. The display of a receptacle shall not be considered solicitation."

From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary...
SOLICITING
1 a: to make petition to : entreat b: to approach with a request or plea <solicited Congress for funding>
2: to urge (as one's cause) strongly
3 a: to entice or lure especially into evil b: to proposition (someone) especially as or in the character of a prostitute
4: to try to obtain by usually urgent requests or pleas <solicited donations>
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (May 7, 2008 08:16PM)
What do they mean by "Monday - Thursday 7:00 am to 12:00 pm. midnight"?
12:00 PM is noon.

It reads like a couple of people who don't know what they are doing put pen to paper.
Message: Posted by: Kozmo (May 7, 2008 09:28PM)
Be creative...talk about how you cnt ask for money like other street performers in other towns...that the constitution isn't vable in myrtle beach....you can get you hat line in by following the law and make it funny...they will give...talk about how entertainers in other areas ask for tips but you cant because its the law....you will get more...not that I know anything

kozmo
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (May 7, 2008 11:12PM)
Get a bike horn and every time you should be saying a taboo word you can honk the horn and mouth the word. that would be funny if you did it well. I was planning on something similar for my stand-up act but not about money. something very different but hopefully just as funny.
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 8, 2008 10:55AM)
I've lost count by now of how many times I've tried warning you guys about this type of harrassment.

NONE OF THIS STUFF IS EVEN REMOTELY LEGAL AND/OR CONSTITUTIONAL.

The city that enacts this type of law is pandering to the elite: the real estate developers that own land near where we need to work; shop owners; the rich upper class; the one's that party with the Mayor; the one's that can afford to donate 25-Grand at election time.

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DO IS WRONG ON EVERY LEVEL. YOU'LL WIN NO POINTS BY TRYING TO EDUCATE THEM. THE SOONER YOU REALIZE THEY ARE LAUGHING AT YOU BEHIND YOR BACK, THE SOONER YOU CAN BEGIN THE SMACK DOWN.

You're the little guy. You have no community. You belong to no workers union. You don't have a high powered attorney, and even if you do manage to save up the 10-Grand needed to hire one, good luck finding one that will go against his local small town colleagues -- the same people he golfs with every weekend, your Mayor included.

There are things we CAN do. But you must first and foremost recognize what I have just said (for the umpteenth time): your local options are gone before you even begin. REAL local solutions are not within your reach, because there are none. Attacking the problem on the local level will only become a monumental waste of time, and your adversaries will be only too willing to take if from you as you helplessly spin your wheels and waste your time and money fighting city hall by THEIR RULES.

Study the main cases:
CASE Goldstein v Nantucket
CASE Davenport v Alexandria
CASE Friedrich v Chicago
CASE Perry & Newman v. LAPD

Spend a week reading everything here: http://www.communityartsadvocates.org/

Learn what a TRO is and how to write one.

Learn what Federal District you live in, and where your nearest Federal Court House is.

Go there are learn how to use the public law library. Look up these cases in person, and learn how to relate to the legal staff in their own language.

LEARN TO TALK LIKE AN INSIDER. LEARN THE REAL RULES. STOP BEING A SHEEP AND BECOME A WOLF.
Message: Posted by: BAH1313 (May 8, 2008 11:40AM)
Great Advice Chance!
Message: Posted by: gallagher (May 8, 2008 03:20PM)
Great Post Chance, you nailed that one on the head. Too bad Busking has to be so much work!! But you´re right on.
One thing I like to do, as a little `hit´ back: is to talk bad about the town, whenever I´m being giving press coverage,... an interview or something. Other towns love printing `how´ and `why´ their town is better then another,... especially if it´s a nearby town.
keep on punching,
gallagher
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 8, 2008 05:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-07 14:11, gaddy wrote:
When you think of the many, many hours of legal fees that must have gone into that piece of municipal ordinance, probably on the order of tens of thousands of dollars worth, just to make it legally impossible for you to make a 100$ hat... It's enough to make you want to just give up... I'm sure that was the whole point.
[/quote]

Since the Pavilion Amusement Park closed two years ago, the downtown area is not doing so well. The redevelopment committee wanted to make it easier to hold special events downtown ... they got new laws to make it easier to hold concerts, parades, fireworks, and street performers. I suspect any performers that actually end up working downtown will be paid by the redevelopment committee. I can't imagine anyone with any real chops actually working this pitch (Pyler Park).

Chance hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that this law is pandering to the elite - that is exactly what the redevelopment committee is, business and hotel owners. I don't think much thought actually went into this law, it looks to me like they just cut&pasted it from another City's code and just changed the times ... which would explain the discrepancies with dumb things like "12pm midnight".



[quote]
On 2008-05-08 11:55, Chance wrote:
Learn what Federal District you live in, and where your nearest Federal Court House is.
[/quote]

That would be the 4th District, the closest office being in Florance ... there is a $350 filing fee; you would be going up against people that have law degrees and spend a lot of time in the courtroom ... I imagine there is a pretty steep learning curve. And if you lose, you could be required to pay the City's legal fees - which could be thousands of dollars. Another $450 fee if you wish to appeal, which you would probably need to do - I can't imagine winning this anywhere in South Carolina, you would need to take it to Washington.

The biggest reason I wouldn't want to do this is because it could take years to actually get the case settled, and I would prefer to be working on my magic. But if anyone out there is still interested, the Court's website is at:

http://www.scd.uscourts.gov/



These laws and permits and licenses are really not the problem - the problem is the Southern mentality towards people in general. The politicians that pass these laws take no offense at a Church passing a collection plate, nor to they have a problem with sending out letters asking their constituents for campaign contributions. But for some reason, they take great offense when a regular everyday citizen makes a "solicitation". In this area, it is illegal to put a "for sale" sign on a car and park it where it can be seen from a roadway.

When you drive down I95 and you see "South of the Border", they mean it - you are not in America any longer! My mom was told by a Myrtle Beach police officer that the flag flying outside her store was in violation of a City Ordnance and if she didn't take it down she would be fined $50 a day - yes, that's right ... in this area it is illegal to fly an AMERICAN FLAG, even at a time when President Bush was asking residents to fly the flag in memory of 9/11.

And people have to wonder why I don't like living here. If you don't live here, you don't understand the mentality ... and if you do live here, you don't understand the problem with it unless you have lived elsewhere. It is a very repressed place to be.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 8, 2008 09:17PM)
Or you could look at it from the other side, and say that if you had started fighting back 5 years ago instead of simply venting your frustrations to us, your fight would have already been won and your streets safe and open.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 8, 2008 10:53PM)
I've been fighting both Myrtle Beach and North Myrtle Beach for 15 years now ... the first day I was in town, I invaded the City Attorneys office and protested - nearly got myself arrested. I've written every council member and been completely ignored by every one of them. I've wrote letters to the editors of the newspaper. I've argued with at least 4 cops. I have begged the ACLU to do something about this years ago. And while I don't talk about it, I have even bucked the system and performed small shows downtown despite the laws against it. I first met Jim Lee (my mentor) downtown when he looked outside his magic shop and wondered what that crowd of people were doing at the end of the street (watching me).

Nobody has been fighting more for street performing in Myrtle Beach than I have, NOBODY. I'm not frustrated, I have a private pitch where I am not bound by the new laws so they really don't effect me anyway. I was merely bringing this new information to the attention of Café members so interested people would know the City is opening up to buskers.

I personally have high hopes that this is a step in the right direction, and the performers that begin working the area will push for more change. As I said, the laws are not the problem - the problem is the fear these Southern politicians have that street performers are just vagrants trying to avoid working a job by begging for money in the streets. In time, they will come around. The process has already begun - last year, it was completely illegal to solicit a tip. This summer, you can at least throw down a hat. I actually see it as the opposite of frustrated, I am happy to see progress.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 9, 2008 04:57AM)
JJ, take your last letter and compare it to my first.

All those things you just said you spent the past 15 years doing -- "I've been fighting both Myrtle Beach and North Myrtle Beach for 15 years now ... the first day I was in town, I invaded the City Attorneys office and protested - nearly got myself arrested. I've written every council member and been completely ignored by every one of them. I've wrote letters to the editors of the newspaper. I've argued with at least 4 cops. I have begged the ACLU to do something about this years ago" -- is EXACTLY what I was warning against doing.

This is exactly the type of action/behavior that the local bigwigs want to see coming from us. When we act out like this they know they have nothing to fear. It's amateurish and uneducated, and it bears absolutely no weight in law. It's like an unarmed man on a bicycle trying to take on a fully armored tank. The guys inside just sit back and have a good laugh at our expense.

On the other hand, a month in a law library boning up on the right cases and laws, 2 days drafting a TRO, and a FREE submission to the federal court who will also appoint you a free federally approved attorney, and I promise you -- NOW you're a threat. NOW they will notice you.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 9, 2008 12:35PM)
I don't think your methods are going to yield any better results than my methods. The only difference is, my methods are a lot cheaper and carry less risk. You might be able to get the filing fee waived, but the courts are under absolutely no obligation to provide you an attorney in a civil matter - to the best of my knowledge they only do that in criminal cases, which means you would need to be arrested first. I've never heard of a court appointed attorney in a civil case. And even so, I wouldn't want an attorney that was appointed by the court - I would want an attorney that believed in my cause.

And it still doesn't guarantee that you will win, and losing means you have to pay the City's court costs and attorney fees ... and like you already said, they know how to spin your wheels and waste your time and money - they can spend as much money as they want researching this case, and if they lose ... oh well, it's not their money anyway. But if you lose, you have to pay it ... however much they decided to spend fighting you.

My bigger concern is that it could end up doing more harm than good ... cases brought before the Supreme Court are usually chosen with the greatest of care, you only want the best possible case with the best witnesses and the best evidence. You never know which way a Court is going to rule ... it only takes one idiot that thinks he has the right to juggle flaming knives blindfolded on a 5 foot wide sidewalk while riding a unicycle to **** it up for everyone else.



I think the biggest thing I've done is to continue street performing ... if the people lead, the leaders will follow. Through my example, Myrtle Beach has realized that street performers bring in tourists and now they want us to perform downtown also. I haven't been spinning my wheels, not by a long shot.

Look at it like this Chance ... the City Attorney is going to have more knowledge and skills of law than I could ever learn. I feel suing someone that hires a full time attorney to represent them is just a foolish thing to do. It'd be like taking a knife to a gunfight, he would know when to object to my arguments (but I wouldn't know when to object to his). He would know how to get keep my evidence from getting before a jury (but I wouldn't know how to block his). There would be a thousand "little things" he has learned from experience, things the law books can't teach me. I'd still be playing their game by their rules with their deck at their house, the only difference would be that that I've now put money in the pot to play.

Here's the best solution: instead of us learning law, perhaps we should teach magic to a lawyer. Then maybe we could talk him into suing the City.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 9, 2008 02:07PM)
Have you read any of the cases I mentioned earlier?

Have you spent real time (at least 3 hours for example) at the website I listed?

Do you know what a TRO is? Ever read one? Ever written one?

Have you ever spoken directly with the City Attorney about this situation?

How about the State Attorney General?

Your Mayor?

Your Governor?

Have you ever paid to sit down for an hour or 2 with a private attorney experienced in Civil Rights law?

Have you spent any serious time speaking with the staffers of your regional Federal Coourt House, especially those in the law library?

Have you spent any time reading up at the law library of your local university?

Ever googled "street performer" + "license/permit/arrest/regulations", etc., and then spent the next week studying the results?

Talk about a knife at a gun fight. These are the most basic starting points. There are none more basic. I'll be happy to continue this discussion when you can add your own EDUCATED opinion.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 9, 2008 04:37PM)
Chance, I've done nearly everything on your list ... if you want to write a TRO against Myrtle Beach, then by all means do so. I seriously doubt a judge is going to sign it unless you file suit, and only then to keep you from being arrested until your day in court. That is why is is called TEMPORARY restraining order - it's not a permanent fix.

And if you Google street performing laws you may eventually find my website listed - I don't know the exact search phrase, but I have seen it pop up in my own searches on the subject. This page in particular:

http://joejoeonline.com/magicians_rights_disappear.htm



Chill out dude, I'm not the enemy. I am a magician Chance, I have no desire to learn law. If you want to sue Myrtle Beach, then nobody is stopping you ... but I don't intend to do so. It would be great to have JoeJoe vs. Myrtle Beach on the Supreme Court docket, but at what expense? I'd prefer to be known as the guy that opens street performing to Myrtle Beach, not to lose the case and become the man that shut down street performing nationwide.

There is more than one way to change a law, and considering I was once a lobbyist to the Maryland General Assembly I prefer to work with methods I am familiar with. [b]Which is why I have been in contact with the City Clerk, and I have an audience with the Council on Tuesday to discuss this topic with them.[/b] Wish me luck, and if anyone has anything in particular about the law you feel I should bring up don't hesitate to let me know now. I'm going to be spending the next few days collecting relevant data and cases and information for them.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 9, 2008 05:16PM)
I'm perfectly chill. There's absolutely no need to insert personal comments into an otherwise intellectual debate.

Speaking of which, this one sentence speaks volumes:

"I'd prefer to be known as the guy that opens street performing to Myrtle Beach, not to lose the case and become the man that shut down street performing nationwide."

The fact that you even believe it could happen (a nationwide shut down) tells me that you've really never studied the issue. If you had, if you had really studied the cases I list, you would know that the federal courts are actually quite supportive of busking. They would be, since these judges have daily exposure to civil rights issues, issues that small local court judges never see. And when they do, they are quick to label it by some minor criminal statute, like blocking a right-of-way, etc.

Whatever. You don't get it. And I'm too busy to care any more.

Good luck at your meeting. But I really wish you were going in properly armed, for all our sakes.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 10, 2008 09:21AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-08 00:12, Frank Starsini wrote:
Get a bike horn and every time you should be saying a taboo word you can honk the horn and mouth the word. that would be funny if you did it well. I was planning on something similar for my stand-up act but not about money. something very different but hopefully just as funny.
[/quote]

Lenny Bruce; "If you weren't offended, you're all full of _blah_ and I hope you never get your _blah blah_ straight!"
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 12, 2008 07:04PM)
Tomorrow is the big day, here is the press release:

http://joejoeonline.com/myrtle_beach_bans_magic_tricks.htm



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 13, 2008 10:05PM)
Ok, so how'd it go? I think it went good. I will spare you all the gory details, but if you want the full story [url=http://joejoeonline.com/blogger/2008/05/city-council-meeting-report.html]read the post at my blog[/url]. And if you want to see the actual speech as presented to the Council, I have [url=http://magicjoint.com/?a=articles&b=magic&c=read&d=5]posted the video here[/url].

If you just want to know how it ended, a Council member expressed that they don't want to infringe upon anyone's Constitutional rights and asked the City Attorney to look into my concerns. This is exactly what I expected of them, although I was hopeful that they would have solicited his opinion on the spot at the meeting ... at the same time, I can understand them wanting to give the City Attorney time to verify the case law I provided.

So now everything hinges upon the opinion of one person (the City Attorney). They will value his opinion as much as you would value the advice of your attorney - I intend to mail him a letter. I will continue to check the meeting agendas to keep updated on this. I do expect the ordinance to be amended, I just don't know how much amending they will be willing to do. I don't know if I will be able to make future meetings as I am under contract starting June 2nd, but the City Clerk is most helpful and I will be able to obtain video tapes of the meetings.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: SeaDawg (May 24, 2008 06:34PM)
JoeJoe...
As you are more than likely well aware.. I think they are tyring to shut down the "offensive hat lines" ( YOu cheap sob's, if daddy doesn;t give you money he doesn't luv you etc etc etc) Quoting the city ordinance could be some fun.

Good luck and good hats, unsolicited or otherwise.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 25, 2008 11:14AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-24 19:34, SeaDawg wrote:
As you are more than likely well aware.. I think they are tyring to shut down the "offensive hat lines" ( YOu cheap sob's, if daddy doesn;t give you money he doesn't luv you etc etc etc) Quoting the city ordinance could be some fun.
[/quote]

Sec 19-173 (9) “a performer may not by word, conduct, or signage solicit money before, during or after the performance”

They are trying to shut down ALL hat lines - you can't mention the tip jar, you can't point to the tip jar, you can't even label it "tip jar". The only way this could be more restrictive is if we had to use "invisible tip jars".

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: nola (May 25, 2008 07:40PM)
I'm haven't actively street performed in three years -not since I left New Orleans, but how awesome would it be if someone were to put together a book or website or pdf that clearly listed the most important talking points, phrases and case studies in such a way that the average busker could take it and run with it.

just my two cents...I prolly shouldn't have butt in...

nola
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 26, 2008 10:31AM)
It's a free forum, your two cents is worth just as much as everyone else's.
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 26, 2008 12:06PM)
I've already given those points here. Not all in one message, but they're here alright.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 26, 2008 10:26PM)
I've read some of Chance's stuff here. You could do worse than to do a search for his name and cut and past what he's posted into one Word document.
Message: Posted by: Chance (May 27, 2008 01:52PM)
Thanks, Ed (er, I think....lol...)
Message: Posted by: gallagher (May 28, 2008 04:28AM)
I´ve been sitting back on this one, watching it develope,... thinking about it. JoeJoe, in all honesty I think your speach was a bit `polite´,... kind of pussy-foot.,... doesn´t matter. I think there are only two ways here; `talking´, in this problem, is NOT one of them. You/(we, as buskers) are not on an eye-to-eye with them;... in their opinion.
The two options?: One, fight them. Go out any play. Get arrested. Get fined. Go out the next day. Get arrested. Go out the next day. Invite the Mayor. Invite the press. Take an ad out in the local paper, invite the town. Get arrested. Go out again. Don´t pay the fines. In the end, the city takes YOU to court. They pick up the tab. Stand in front of the Judge, without a laywer, and say; "I´m an artist. I´m expressing my thoughts. The place I `express´ is public, open, free land. The monies donated are an expression of thanks."
,....keep the press in the show.

Option number two: As a busker, our biggest strength is our mobility/flexablity. Use it. Hit and run. Condense your show,.. 10 minutes, 12 minutes,..bang, bang, bang. Hit different spots,... Modern Urban Terrorism (M.U.T.),....busking!!
Flexiblity is our greatest strength,... use it.

gallagher

p.s.: `MUT´ in german translates to `courage´.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 28, 2008 04:30AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-27 14:52, Chance wrote:
Thanks, Ed (er, I think....lol...)
[/quote]

Well, it was meant to be positive.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (May 28, 2008 01:12PM)
Ed, consider yourself turtled!

Sorry, couldn't resist it any longer.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 28, 2008 03:45PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-28 05:28, gallagher wrote:
I´ve been sitting back on this one, watching it develope,... thinking about it. JoeJoe, in all honesty I think your speach was a bit `polite´,... kind of pussy-foot.,... doesn´t matter. I think there are only two ways here; `talking´, in this problem, is NOT one of them. You/(we, as buskers) are not on an eye-to-eye with them;... in their opinion.
[/quote]

The City just passed a law that has the intention of ENCOURAGING street performing. They are saying "hey buskers, we want you to come to Myrtle Beach". They don't know our world, they don't understand it .... so they try to fit our world into their rules. Misguided, yes - but have they done a bad thing? NO! They are trying to ENCOURAGE street performing. We shouldn't discourage them with threats of lawsuits, we should be encouraging them as well.

I went to them as the street performer they are trying to encourage to perform downtown. I wanted them to hear why this legislation wasn't encouraging me to perform downtown. I myself see my speech as a little too harsh towards them, as you really do catch more flies with honey. My only goal was to get them to ask the City Attorney his opinion, which they did.

There is a 3rd option you neglected to mention Gallagher - private property. And for six years now, I've been performing on private property. All the ads for Barefoot Landing in the newspaper and what not say "STREET PERFORMERS" on them. And with all the performers in town working the private pitches, the city is feeling left out and now seeks to encourage street performing themselves - a little diplomacy might yield a lot of results here. After all, they don't want their efforts to fail. They earn 1% of all taxes collected in Myrtle Beach, and if street performers attract tourists they are all for it - that's why this ordinance was passed in the first place!



[quote]
The two options?: One, fight them. Go out any play. Get arrested. Get fined. Go out the next day. Get arrested. Go out the next day. Invite the Mayor. Invite the press. Take an ad out in the local paper, invite the town. Get arrested. Go out again. Don´t pay the fines. In the end, the city takes YOU to court. They pick up the tab. Stand in front of the Judge, without a laywer, and say; "I´m an artist. I´m expressing my thoughts. The place I `express´ is public, open, free land. The monies donated are an expression of thanks."
,....keep the press in the show.
[/quote]

The only newspaper in town is conservative and won't give a rats rear end - you would be lucky to make the police blotter. The City Judge will find you guilty, and you will then need to pay the tab for the appeal, so your really not saving yourself anything at all - in fact, you now get to pay a fine and spend 30 days in jail. Take Chance's advice and read http://www.communityartsadvocates.org/ where they clearly advise you not to get arrested but to file your own complaint against the City - "This way you can determine the issues the court will discuss".

They could throw the book at you - illegal solicitation, loitering, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest ... oh yea sure, you might eventually prevail in the court ... AFTER you have spent 2-5 years in jail waiting on appeals. If you have time like that to spare, then have at it - but it's totally irresponsible for you to come on a public forum and make that recommendation for others.

In all frankness, nobody cares if your civil rights are violated - nobody. What they care about is if THEIR civil rights are being violated. In my speech, I specifically mentioned the amateurs performers - people that are not professionals. Like the lady that came up to me after the meeting to wish me luck - she said her son plays the guitar. She doesn't care if I can't perform downtown, but when she finds out her son can't play the guitar either it suddenly becomes personal to her. If the council realizes that same point, there in no doubt in my mind that the law will be changed.



[quote]
[ Option number two: As a busker, our biggest strength is our mobility/flexablity. Use it. Hit and run. Condense your show,.. 10 minutes, 12 minutes,..bang, bang, bang. Hit different spots,... Modern Urban Terrorism (M.U.T.),....busking!!
Flexiblity is our greatest strength,... use it.
[/quote]

Why? None of that makes any sense. The only suitable location to busk in Myrtle Beach is downtown, the cops ride bikes, golf carts, and even those new people thingies you stand on. The typical response time is under 2 minutes. You don't understand the area - if you do a 10 minute show downtown, at least 1 police officer is going to see you in that time - the place is crawling with cops.

But they really don't give a crap, I've performed downtown before - they have real problems and real issues to deal with, car accidents muggings someone get stabbed or shot. Unless you are causing a problem they don't give a crap. Your not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to hide from them. If you get one of their permits to perform, I doubt you would have any problems. But its not about *IF* they will hassle someone, its about the fact that this ordinance gives them the option to do so.

If you have this mentality that they are the enemy and you are at war with them ... well, you will probably create problems for yourself. They are on foot - you'd be better off getting to know them, getting them to like you. Back in the 50's, Myrtle Beach cops gave out $5 tickets to guys that had their pants to long - it was a big joke and everyone had a good laugh about it - they like to have fun too. There is no need to act like terrorists here.





So to update everyone, I've posted the letter I wrote to the Mayor and the City Attorney on my blog today which highlights the exact portions of the new ordinance I myself have issue with. The Mayor of Myrtle Beach is actually pretty kewl, I like him.

http://joejoeonline.com/blogger/2008/05/open-letter-to-mayor-rhodes.html



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 28, 2008 10:59PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-28 14:12, Paddy wrote:
Ed, consider yourself turtled!

Sorry, couldn't resist it any longer.
[/quote]

Oh for cryin' out loud! What'd I do now?
Message: Posted by: gallagher (May 29, 2008 01:15PM)
Hey JoeJoe, I think the people of the town do and would care. And I think most of them would support you. You just have to figure out how to reach them. Find the right media. Hey, I don´t know your newspaper, but usually they DO have an open ear for these kind of stories. I would approach them. These `little guy against the burocracy´ stories are very appealling,... especially in the U.S., .. don´t pre-judge them,... like the system does you.
Go to the opposing political party of your Mayor. BOTH partys will sit up and notice. Offer a working plan,.. like the San Fransisco or Convent Garden examples.

Go to the businesses. It all comes down to money. They believe every dollar you get, is a dollar they don´t get. Sell them the idea: `free´ entertainment means more folks/families,.. which means more muhla for everyone.

hmmm,.. in all honesty though, I still prefer the `hit and run´ approach.
"Can we live from it!?! Ha! We LIVE because we do it!!"

gallagher
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (May 30, 2008 12:41PM)
Ummm ... I do believe I've already done everything you suggested, so I'm not really sure what the point of your post is. But whatever.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 31, 2008 10:00AM)
I don't like the "hit and run" concept. That's catering to the idea that what you're doing is wrong! The problem is (in my opinion) the various city officials see buskers as the equivalent of the guys at the red lights with the dirty rags and squee-gees! Or maybe like the guy that was run off for harassing people on line at the movies if they didn't tip him after he performed for them.

I'm going to risk another turtling and use the term "we."

We are not owed anything by our audience. Yes, the perfect contract would be; You peform and everybody who stops to watch throws something in the hat, but in the end it's their decision to make, verbally harassing them for walking away doesn't help the case. Same goes with those who have to make comments about people who give too little (I've seen those threads here as well) I think these are the things the city council is concerned about in the long run.

But as I've said, I'm not making a living at this so, while I don't agree with it, I can see the point of view of those who feel otherwise.
Message: Posted by: gallagher (Jun 2, 2008 03:13AM)
Hey Ed, man you got that one!! ,.. right on the money. The `profession´ doesn´t have the best of reputations,... and has earned most of what it denies. Trying to establish it as `clean´,.. legitimatize it with sweet regulation is silly. Play where you can, when you can,.. try showing a bit of respect,.... remain MOBIL. `Sleight of foot´ is our strength.

tip-toeing along,
gallagher
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jun 2, 2008 04:29AM)
No, I still object to the "hit and run" approach.