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Topic: MANIPULATION CARDS QUESTION
Message: Posted by: SeanScottMagic (May 11, 2008 08:08AM)
I am in need of manipulation cards which are:
-thinnest
-poker size or close to it
-backs will blend with flesh
-flexible
-take little prep
Anyone have a source?
Thanks,
Sean
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (May 11, 2008 10:04AM)
The thinnest I've seen are the Marvey cards (they come in two thicknesses and have flesh edges), though I hear the Chen cards are thin too. I've always done better with Murphy cards myself, but they aren't as thin. Many people swear by the Nielson cards, but I haven't tried them myself. None of them are poker sized that I know of, all being bridge size. There are also new cards to come out of Asia which are many coloured.

Jeb
Message: Posted by: T.G Kenny (May 11, 2008 12:10PM)
Murphy has a new poker size manipulation cards... If my memory serves me well. Overall, I still recommend you to use bridge size murphy manipulation cards:)
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2008 01:22PM)
The best advice I can give toyou is simply buy a few brands and test them out for yourself. it sounds liek alame answer but is not intended to be. The simple fact is that what works for one may not work well for another. Only you as a performer can determine what will work best for you and your style. Some of the ones to try are Neilson, Juliana Chen and Peter Marvey. I know there are others though but these are the ones I have tried most often.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (May 11, 2008 03:02PM)
It's nice to hear that Murphy's makes a poker size now. Some people will probably prefer them. I might have to give them a try myself.

Jeb
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2008 03:14PM)
If anyone does try out the new Murphy's Poker size ones, I would be interested in hearing your personal review. Thanks in advance. I will also have to try these out.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Brad Jeffers (May 11, 2008 05:19PM)
The only poker size manipulation cards I know of are these http://www.shaunyee.com/english%20manipulation%20cat.2.htm#manipulation%20cards%20japan and http://trickshopmagic.com/manipulat-poker.html
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (May 11, 2008 06:49PM)
I like the Bees. They do take some breaking in but will hold up well. I am very hard on the cards when I do split fans and the Bee hold up well under the usage.

I have also used Norm Nielson cards and they are a great choice. They are priced right and are a joy to fan. Very thin, you can back palm almost the whole deck.

I do not like the Marvey cards.

I have Julieanna Chen cards and they are good but very small. I also have the Murphy's manipulation cards. Very nice, back palm and fan very well but will not hold up under a lot of usage.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2008 07:06PM)
I just typically use bees or bicycle brand cards. I just work them in and break them in before performing and they work great for me. I did this out of necessity for when I used to do them in my older act I changed them into jumbo cards etc and the backs had to all match in order to make any sense.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: SeanScottMagic (May 11, 2008 07:58PM)
Thank you very much everyone. Greatly, greatly appreciated. One annoying thing I have found on several dealer websites is that the size of manipulation decks offered is not always given in the description. Seems like a rather important bit of information to be omitted. Hmmm. Too bad we don't have a B.B.B. for these situations. LOL.

One other question, anyone have tips on their particualr prep for breaking down cards? Getting them to fan efficiently and making them as soft as possible?

I just started playing with using a hand grinder with a very rough grit. The norm of course is to use the ruler and scrape, scrape, etc.. With grinding, you just don't want to thin them too much or you will distort the surface on the other side for fanning. Maybe changing to a smoother grit is the key. The sanding pad was about 4" I think, will try using a dremmel tool. Sounds a bit overkill I know, you should see the size of piranha I use to mill down the edges of my half dollars. Don't tell PITA, lets see them try to smash n grab these fish!

Thanks,
Sean
Message: Posted by: casibb3 (May 11, 2008 08:48PM)
BEE Cards are superb for manipulation with the caveat that they are prepared properly! I have found over the years that the preparation outlined in Arthur Buckley's CARD CONTROL results in a super smooth performing deck, treated very sparingly with fanning powder (emphasis on "sparingly").

I have had decks last for a very long time and as they worked, they became extremely supple to the touch, a great feeling when producing the fans.

Frank
Message: Posted by: SeanScottMagic (May 12, 2008 06:08AM)
Ok, I need to clean up the sarcasm....I meant PETA.
Thanks,
Sean
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (May 13, 2008 11:40AM)
Manipulation cards only need fanning powder. They are already thin and flexible. The long prep for regular cards are as described in many books and videos on card manipulation.
Message: Posted by: Mike McEathron (Aug 25, 2008 07:26PM)
I like Norm Nelsen cards

Only thing is they don't last for ever, and a card press is needed
Message: Posted by: Heres Tony (Aug 25, 2008 10:52PM)
Vernet now has manipulation cards on the market. They are crazy thin, too thin for me. The backs are flesh-colored, however they are bridge, not poker size. I bought a few decks just to play around with.

Personally, I use Norm's cards only..
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Aug 26, 2008 12:12AM)
Try here http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/31
Message: Posted by: trashmanf (Aug 26, 2008 12:47PM)
Thank you Bojanbarisic, I was interested in these:

http://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/31/products_id/146?osCsid=d83ec34d03e118c32582e62f5459f209

Because they resemble Bees... however the 4-corner indicies are a discrepancy... but I'll still have to give them a try!
Message: Posted by: bojanbarisic (Aug 26, 2008 01:37PM)
Very good cards. I have been using them for last 6 years. Make sure to buy good wax for them. They hold wax much better than fanning powder.
Message: Posted by: trashmanf (Aug 26, 2008 04:00PM)
I just ordered two of the decks and an order of 4 sticks of wax. How do you recommend waxing them, any particular method or just basically wipe em down? Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 1, 2008 01:12PM)
Stevens magic just received the UGM poker size, 4 Index, similar to Bee back, manipulation cards.

I do not recommed the wax method of preparing cards for manipulation. Powder the better way to go in my experience.

You must work in the wax and smooth with your fingers 52 cards.
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Oct 1, 2008 01:46PM)
I never use wax for any of my manipulation cards, even though the wax is recommended. Zinc stearate (fanning powder) has served me very well for more than 30 years.
Message: Posted by: John Star (Oct 1, 2008 05:56PM)
I make manipulation for years and I never put wax powders...just pieces of confettis!

John
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 1, 2008 06:09PM)
If you plan to wear white gloves, I perfer Juliana Chen's. If no gloves, I perfer Marvey's.
Message: Posted by: Kyle^Ravin (Oct 1, 2008 08:10PM)
Mike, I think Juliana's cards can still be used with no gloves. Her design is clever, black on one end, white on another. I allows you to fan the cards both ways, so you don't accidentally show the backs. Another question...isn't manipulation with gloves on really difficult? What do you do for friction??
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 1, 2008 08:27PM)
To some magicians it is easier with gloves, to me it is more difficult.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=184795&forum=10
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=192245&forum=10
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=164495&forum=10
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=163679&forum=10
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=82506&forum=10
Message: Posted by: Darkwing (Oct 3, 2008 07:09PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-25 23:52, Heres Tony wrote:
Vernet now has manipulation cards on the market. They are crazy thin, too thin for me. The backs are flesh-colored, however they are bridge, not poker size. I bought a few decks just to play around with.

Personally, I use Norm's cards only..
[/quote]

Same here, Tony.

I bought the fanning cards and manipulation cards and they are way too thin. I am like you, I do like the Norm Nielson cards and I use Bees.

David
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Oct 23, 2008 11:43AM)
Darkwing,
You are most welcome to your opinion, but "thin is in", produce more cards, using 2 decks, last longer, easier to handle, and not breaking in of the cards. And have a nice snap to them. Just great when you want to produce a large number of cards. I produce 2 decks of manipulation cards using body loads.

Originally, Steamboat and Bee cards were not plastic coated, like in the 1940's, mainly used because of the back design.

If you like poker size cards, Stevens Magic is now carrying poker size thin cards. See them at http://www.stevensmagic.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=10582
Message: Posted by: Peter Pitchford (Oct 24, 2008 10:32AM)
Let me chime in here and plug John Blakes new manipulation cards. They are poker size, flesh backed (TWO TONES TO CHOOSE FROM!!!), and super thin. John's a super guy. I just met him not long ago and he is very cool. Give them a try. I'm sure you won't be disappointed!
Message: Posted by: Peter Pitchford (Oct 24, 2008 10:35AM)
BTW, I just looked up the site. Here it is: http://magicmusicandmore-store.stores.yahoo.net/
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Oct 24, 2008 12:38PM)
Thanks Peter for the website link.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Oct 25, 2008 01:03AM)
I use "Manipulation Bills".
Message: Posted by: ekozuch (Nov 13, 2008 07:14AM)
How many of the thinest cards are needed to make a deck wich has the same height of a regular deck?