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Topic: The Grandmother of all Booktests by Edward Stein
Message: Posted by: dj (May 11, 2008 03:27PM)
"The Grandmother of all Booktests" now also in English.
E. Steinīs "The Grandmother of all Booktests", it's brilliant.

[url=http://miracle-makers.de/de/index.php?PHPSESSID=0fee646ed8b35c4af9e08926606814e4]miracle-makers.de[/url]
Message: Posted by: VIEW (May 11, 2008 03:30PM)
Why is it brilliant?
Message: Posted by: dj (May 11, 2008 03:38PM)
[quote]
Why is it brilliant?
[/quote]
The method it is used.
Message: Posted by: John C (May 11, 2008 06:10PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 16:38, dj wrote:
[quote]
Why is it brilliant?
[/quote]
The method it is used.
[/quote]
Oh.
Message: Posted by: VIEW (May 11, 2008 06:32PM)
Yawn.
Message: Posted by: Floyd Collins (May 11, 2008 06:55PM)
"Now also in English", then why can't there web site be as well?
Message: Posted by: Jim-Callahan (May 11, 2008 08:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 16:38, dj wrote:
>>Why is it brilliant?<<

The method it is used.
[/quote]

Ok Slick, then let us know who you are were you perform & mayhap your website.
Or is that the Link you offered us?

J ack
H.O.A-X
Message: Posted by: Arnon (May 12, 2008 12:13AM)
Here y'all go:

[url=http://miracle-makers.de/de/index.php?PHPSESSID=0fee646ed8b35c4af9e08926606814e4]miracle-makers.de[/url]

[url=http://www.putfile.com/pic/8133265][img]http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13201113118.jpg[/img][/url]

[b]Yahoo! Babel Fish translation[/b]
[quote]
Someone leafs and reads in a book and notes only one word from it. They look at humans and say to him in detail without any detours, that he thinks for the moment. Yes, they can call it accurately the word, which it noted! They read, the dream of each (English speaking) mentalists became true correctly. That is booked in its purest and most direct form! That is it, which was now always meant with the effect and one realised for the first time. The facts: They can present the effect alone and on all conceivable demonstrating conditions. It is forced nothing, asked nothing and noted nothing. The spectator opens the book up, where he wants, leafs and reads a little and notes finally a word, him pleases short: He selects really absolutely freely! They can stand thereby far far away, since it is absolutely not necessary, secretly any information to erspähen*. And despite and/or because of this uniquely cleanen and fair operational sequence you are to be presented in the position an almost unbelievable thought reading. They need nothing more, as the book. Their hands are completely empty at the entire demonstration. You will already control the demonstration after short time perfectly. Even someone this book possesses and it read, not the smallest doubt about will have that it is the genuine original. It can read even some sides and will confirm that it knows contents. The title is one of the most well-known detective stories of the world, 100%ig appearing genuine paperback with Coverprägung and original illustrations. World-wide exclusively, on 500 copies edition limited. Up to 01.07.08 to the subscription price of only 99, - EUR orderable. The wonderwork is available starting from 01.08.2008, then at the price of 150, - EUR
[/quote]
*Per Google Translate, "erspähen" means
1.espy
2.catch sight of, spot

Perhaps DerZauberer/George, Malchat/Matthew, Bill Palmer or another German-speaking Café member can clean up the above raw translation. :D


Here's my own polished version, using Google Translator along with Yahoo! Babel Fish. I invite a German speaker to check it for accuracy:
[quote]
Someone leafs through a book, and then reads and remembers a single word in it. You can tell him without any fishing what the word was that he thought of at that moment. Yes, you can state exactly what the word was that had been noted!

You have read correctly - the dream of every (English speaking) Mentalist is now a reality. This is the book test in its purest and most direct form! This is what the effect was always meant to be, and has become a reality for the first time.

The facts:

You can perform the effect alone and under all conceivable demonstrating conditions present.

Nothing is forced, nothing is asked and nothing is written down.

The spectator opens the book up where he wants, leafs through and reads a little and finally notes a word which he likes. In short: His selection is really absolutely free!

You can stand far away because it is not necessary to glimpse any secret information. And despite or because of this unique clean and fair procedure, even under these almost unbelievable conditions you are able to announce the word read by them.

You need nothing more than the book. Your hands are completely empty during the whole demonstration, which you will have perfectly mastered after a short time.

Even if someone owns a copy of this book and has read it, there is not the slightest doubt that this book is the true original. He can even read a few pages and will confirm that he recognizes the contents. The title is one of the most famous mysteries in the world, 100% authentic published paperback book with embossed cover and original illustrations. World-wide exclusive, limited edition of 500 copies.
[/quote]
[b]I especially invite dj, the opening poster, to proofread this also and verify its accuracy. dj's additional comments are also invited.[/b]

Arnon
Message: Posted by: g0thike (May 12, 2008 03:11AM)
Sounds like the Harry Potter book test.
Message: Posted by: kriskraze (May 12, 2008 03:12AM)
What a load of tosh.

Can it make you fly too?
Message: Posted by: ravi (May 12, 2008 04:16AM)
The beginning of this thread might be a little funny but Edward Stein produces High Quality tricks. Ted Lesley has made use of many things from Edward Stein.

He is a small magicshop and produces his tricks in small quantities. I have one other booktest from him and it is excellent. I cannot say anything about this booktest and I do not know either what the difference to the Ted Karmilowitch booktest might be.


Ravi
Message: Posted by: Hogle (May 12, 2008 05:04AM)
"The Grandmother of all Booktests" is a brillant booktest.
I do not know so many english language booktests, but I venture to doubt that there are many better versions on the market.
E. Stein did an excellent job and I use "Grandmother 1 + 2" with great success.

Greetings from germany
Daniel
Message: Posted by: Arnon (May 12, 2008 01:52PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-12 05:16, ravi wrote:
***
I have one other booktest from him and it is excellent. I cannot say anything about this booktest and I do not know either what the difference to the Ted Karmilowitch booktest might be.

Ravi
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2008-05-12 06:04, Hogle wrote:
"The Grandmother of all Booktests" is a brillant booktest.
I do not know so many english language booktests, but I venture to doubt that there are many better versions on the market.
E. Stein did an excellent job and I use "Grandmother 1 + 2" with great success.

Greetings from germany
Daniel
[/quote]

[b]Ravi and Daniel:

Since you both live in Germany and presumably speak the language, is my English description of the booktest an accurate translation of the ad in German?[/b] (If you confirm this, then at least we have an accurate description of what the booktest is being advertised to enable us to do.)
Message: Posted by: ravi (May 13, 2008 06:02AM)
I think, your description or translation is good and accurate.

I do not own this special booktest but I have heard nothing but good things about Stein. The older booktest , I own is pretty good too and if it comes up on German ebay, It gets very high bids. Ted Lesley has also beeen very happy with the products of E. Stein.


Ravi
Message: Posted by: james1a (May 13, 2008 11:30AM)
I find it interesting, how quickly one post develops a certain 'feel' in the responses, for no clear reason I can ever see. Its just life.
james1a
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 13, 2008 04:07PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-12 04:12, kriskraze wrote:
What a load of tosh.

Can it make you fly too?
[/quote]

Itīs not!! And yes, some spectators will take off after that effect. ;)



Iīm also a proud owner of both "grandmothers" (there are existing 2 german versions) and they are without any doubt the best and cleanest book tests I ever saw and I know many booktests, also in english.

The principle is different to the M.O.B.T.
Better? May be, because you donīt have to ask for any l.....s. And this is what I prefer and what I like so much. You recieve pictures not letters!! Itīs a very important point in my opinion, if you reveal some unemotional letters or a simple word or if you recieve pictures.
You can give the book to any spectator without having bad feelings, because the spectator wonīt reveal any secret. The "preparation" is so good that my mother read about 30 pages of this book by mistake, before she stopped reading because she was bored by the content. But she didnīt realized the secret.
For everybody who loves booktests, this book is a MUST HAVE. Highly recommended.

The only con is: Itīs too low priced.
Message: Posted by: Stefan S. (May 14, 2008 03:10AM)
Hi there, I do own the booktest, of course the german version. I made a small correction to your translation.

Someone leafs through a book, and then reads and remembers a single word in it. You can tell them without any detour what they are thinking of. Yes, you can state exactly what the word was that had been noted!

Otherwise the booktest is great I do use it all the time, but it does take a certain nack to perfom and in the begining you might run into some problems. The instructions are clear, but I do not know how the english ones will be?

Cheers,

Stefan
Message: Posted by: kriskraze (May 14, 2008 04:04AM)
Stefan... your description doesn't mention the pictures.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (May 14, 2008 01:23PM)
I was interested to see the high praise from German mentalists but has anybody not from Germany actually read the instructions, seen the book or tried out the test?

I am sure it is of high standard but I am just wondering about the quality of translation and whether the force book is in good English.
Message: Posted by: Hogle (May 14, 2008 11:55PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-14 14:23, NeilS wrote:
I am sure it is of high standard but I am just wondering about the quality of translation and whether the force book is in good English.
[/quote]

E. Stein doesn't do things by halves, so I'm pretty sure the translation is of high quality! But -of course- I don't really know that. I only suppose so.

Greetings from Germany
Daniel
Message: Posted by: Joshua Quinn (May 15, 2008 12:33AM)
The english instructions for his Astrostar were impenetrably bad. The effect itself may be great, but I have no idea since neither I nor anyone I've shown the instructions to can decipher them. Given that, I think concerns about the translation for this effect are entirely valid.
Message: Posted by: Stefan S. (May 15, 2008 03:41AM)
Hi again,

about the pictures, that is the main differance to all the other booktest I have seen so far.

You do not have to ask or fish for a letter, the person concentrates on the word and tries to see it in their mind and that is what you are picking up on. So you do seem to get a picture, a feeling, a structur and in the end the word.

Cheers,

Stefan
Message: Posted by: NeilS (May 15, 2008 04:00AM)
I like the idea behind this book test but my concern is the actual book supplied and used. Has the book been translated and if so, how good is the English?
Message: Posted by: lane99 (May 15, 2008 01:43PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 21:19, Jim-Callahan wrote:
...Ok Slick, then let us know who you are were you perform & mayhap your website...
[/quote]

Anyone know if Yahoo Babel Fish can translate Jimglish?

...Note: There is a booktest called "The Grandmother of all Booktests" included in a manuscript that was published by Jack Dean's Stagecraft. Though it doesn't appear to be the same effect that is being described here.
Message: Posted by: todsky (May 15, 2008 04:17PM)
As far as seeing the 'picture' that the spec is thinking of, MOABT allows you to do that as well. All the words that are used in MOABT are nouns, and can be visualized as pictures, if you wish to perform it that way (which I do).
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 15, 2008 08:01PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-15 17:17, todsky wrote:
As far as seeing the 'picture' that the spec is thinking of, MOABT allows you to do that as well. All the words that are used in MOABT are nouns, and can be visualized as pictures, if you wish to perform it that way (which I do).
[/quote]
But the method of revealing the word/picture is a different one. And in my opinion itīs more believable, because you decribe a scene that becomes clearer and clearer.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (May 16, 2008 05:42AM)
O.k., I would prefer not saying anything, but all book tests of Edward Stein are really superb. I got MOABT 1 and 2 (of course in German), his excellent S-72 which I regularly perform (in my opinion his best work) and some more... if not all... I have to attest that Edward Stein just doesn't do "half things". My Highest recommendations. You just are never taking risks buying from him!
Jan Forster
Message: Posted by: Luke-Magi (May 16, 2008 06:04AM)
I don't speak German..Where can I purchase it?
Message: Posted by: ravi (May 16, 2008 06:10AM)
If you look at one posting by Arnon in this thread, you can see the link to Miracle makers.

There you can get the book.

Ravi
Message: Posted by: LukeB (May 16, 2008 06:42AM)
That Link is in German?
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 16, 2008 07:27AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-16 07:42, LukeB wrote:
That Link is in German?
[/quote]

Yes, here is the direct link to the booktest [url=http://miracle-makers.de/de/artikel.php?pid=41&PHPSESSID=426c13fe85eda7c18120049bff5f1701]miracle-makers.de[/url]

This English version is very new and I think his basic idea was to offer his booktest also in English for the German mentalist performing for an international audience. I think thatīs the reason why you canīt find an english blurb. But I could also imagine that he will translate it for international customers, if the gets feedback and questions from you.

[b]But[/b], I donīt know it, I just could picture so, because Iīm not a friend of Edward Stein, I not even know him, Iīm just a happy customer of his products.
Message: Posted by: LukeB (May 16, 2008 06:55PM)
Thanks for that CinChiller.I would order one right now if I could navigate the website,but,alas, after the product description, everything is in German.
Luke
Message: Posted by: NeilS (May 17, 2008 01:30PM)
Not only that but it mentions there is a discounted price for orders placed before 1st July but on clicking the German order form, it cites the full non discounted price.
Message: Posted by: Hogle (May 18, 2008 03:12AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-16 08:27, CinChiller wrote:
I think thatīs the reason why you canīt find an english blurb. But I could also imagine that he will translate it for international customers, if the gets feedback and questions from you.

[/quote]

You're right!

"Someone flicks through a book, reads in it and remembers one of the words. You look at the person and tell him without any detours what he is thinking of in detail. Yes, you can tell exactly the word he has in mind! You have read everything correctly – the dream of every mentalist has come true. This is the book test in itīs purest and most direct form! That is what always has been meant referring to the effect of a book test but has now been realized for the first time ever.
The facts:
You can present the effect alone and under all possible conditions of performance. Nothing has to be forced, nothing is asked, nothing has been written down, there is no need for pumping or fishing for words.
The spectator opens the book at random, pages through it, reads something and finally keeps any word that suits him in mind. In a word: He chooses the word absolutely free!
There is no need to secretly glimpse any information so the performer is able to stand widely apart from the spectator. And despite (might be because of) the uniquely clear and fair procedure you are able to present an almost incredible mindreading.
You will need nothing else than the book. Your hands are absolutely empty during the whole performance. The handling will be mastered perfectly after a short while. Even for a person who ownes the book that is used himself and has read it there will be not the slightest doubt that this is the original book. He is allowed to read some pages and still will confirm that this is the contents he is familiar with.
The title used in this effect is one of the worlds most famous detective novels. You will recieve a 100 % original looking hard cover book including original illustrations. Worldwide exclusive edition, limited to 500 copies.

Price 150,-- € (until the 1st of July 2008 subscription price only 99,-- €). To be delivered from the 1st of August."
Message: Posted by: Arnon (May 18, 2008 12:38PM)
I like my second translation better - hehehehehehe. :rotf:

Unfortunately, the website now has Hogle's translation instead.

Oh well....
Message: Posted by: kriskraze (May 18, 2008 01:51PM)
Perhaps I am missing something - if so then apologies.

Earlier in this thread there was talk of 'pictures'. Was that in reference to something else?

If not, why is there no reference to this presumable compromise in the sales patter?
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (May 18, 2008 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-18 14:51, kriskraze wrote:
Perhaps I am missing something - if so then apologies.

Earlier in this thread there was talk of 'pictures'. Was that in reference to something else?

If not, why is there no reference to this presumable compromise in the sales patter?
[/quote]

You understood something wrong. I didnīt mean pictures physicaly as I mentioned that the mentalist recieves pictures and not letters or just a simple word.
An example:
If you say "I see an E. Your word has an E in it - right? Yes of course it has, because you think at "monkey". Is that right?" than you just recieve a letter or word.
But if you want the spectator to visualize the word, to imagine a scene, than you recieve "pictures". You say: "Imagine the word you chose as object that you can feel, when you touch it. Try to imagine that. Oh, I see itīs a light one. I see shiny material...but itīs soft...Try to imagine to use this object. Oh, I can see itīs something wear around your neck. Itīs a tie."
This is just a short example for what I mean with recieving "pictures".
I hope, I could clear up your question concerning any pictures within the grandmother. :)
Message: Posted by: kriskraze (May 19, 2008 12:31AM)
Hmm, well if it appears how I think it appears, it certainly does seem superior to MOABT.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (May 19, 2008 05:41AM)
It certainly sounds interesting - although ordering details are a little confusing. A discount is offered for orders placed before July but there is no indication of how to get this, as the ordering button is for the full non discounted amount.
If the order page could also be given in English, this would hopefully make things much easier to understand.
Message: Posted by: LukeB (May 21, 2008 07:35AM)
Hey does anyone know if the Included instructions are In English?
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 21, 2008 10:32AM)
This looked intriguing, then the thread died.

Has anyone used one recently or can review?

Piers.

PS. The website still appears confused re: pricing.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Jun 21, 2008 11:37AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 16:38, dj wrote:
>>Why is it brilliant?<<

The method it is used.
[/quote]


My Audience dos NOT Really care about the method that I used.....so, why it is Brilliant?
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Jun 21, 2008 12:02PM)
I got it !

I like the principle very much.
It's the best book test with the insight from keith Fields.
You don't have to ask for a long/big word as in the Karmilovitch book test.
This book test in my opinion is not for beginners because it works best for people who are good at interpreting body language when determining which word was picked within a particular word group.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Jun 21, 2008 12:13PM)
But in the end, book test is just a lot like Card Forces....in the Audience mind will be the same...unless your presentations is unique and most imprtantly, Entertaining

so I guess there is nothing Special about this beside the very Cool method, which strikes lay people as nothing of fancy
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 21, 2008 02:09PM)
I'm also interested. What is the price?
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 22, 2008 03:28AM)
Doesn't seem as close to 100 pct as MOABT. Mother is like family. She is there when I need her, always. Curious about more reviews just as any of the Holy Grail seekers.

Raise your prices Ted.
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 22, 2008 03:41AM)
... reminds me of that other book test, A4 size with pictures.

Can't think of the name though.

Piers.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 22, 2008 05:03AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 04:41, Piers wrote:
... reminds me of that other book test, A4 size with pictures.

Can't think of the name though.

Piers.
[/quote]

That's it Piers! What was that one called? Anyone?
Message: Posted by: LukeB (Jun 22, 2008 06:55AM)
I ordered this from this Edward for the 'subscription price' of 99 Euros,the price goes up after july 1.I didn't think anyone had the english version yet cause it wont be available for delivery before August 1.It's not hard to order though..an email address is easy to find on the site and Edward was good to deal with.I'll be sure to post a review asap.
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (Jun 22, 2008 07:28AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 04:41, Piers wrote:
... reminds me of that other book test, A4 size with pictures.

Can't think of the name though.

Piers.
[/quote]

Do you mean the comic booktest "monster of booktest" from S.X. (the banned member of this forum with the forbidden name)?

I donīt know this principle, although it also sounds interesting, but the Grandmother I and II is available since many years in germany. Just the english version is new.
Message: Posted by: Piers (Jun 22, 2008 09:05AM)
THIS is what I was thinking of...

http://www.jheff.com/PictoMental_2000.html

Piers.
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (Jun 22, 2008 04:53PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 10:05, Piers wrote:
THIS is what I was thinking of...

http://www.jheff.com/PictoMental_2000.html

Piers.
[/quote]
Ok, I know this book, but it isn't my cup of tea (sorry, Ralf) and itīs a completely different method and presentation.

Picto Mental is a colouring book with letīs say 100 different pictures and some words you can receive.
With the grandmother you have a book with hundreds of pages and thousands of possible words the spectator can freely choose. Which of them will a spectator think is stronger? I think the "real" book, but this is just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 23, 2008 04:42AM)
Doesn't Rick over at Outlaw have something similar?

Looking forward to the English translation reviews.
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (Jun 23, 2008 07:12AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-23 05:42, Candin wrote:
Doesn't Rick over at Outlaw have something similar?

Looking forward to the English translation reviews.
[/quote]
I donīt think so. What booktest do you have in mind?
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Jun 23, 2008 09:24AM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-22 10:05, Piers wrote:
THIS is what I was thinking of...

http://www.jheff.com/PictoMental_2000.html

Piers.
[/quote]

:), no,no the grand mother of book test is a real book.
The book is the hound of the Baskervilles (Sherlock Holmes)
One more time the principles is totally different from others book.
No big-long words, no dracula principle,no double vision, etc...
read my last post for more.
Message: Posted by: DT3 (Jun 23, 2008 11:39AM)
I like his cartoons...
http://blog.rockymountainnews.com/stein/
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 23, 2008 12:07PM)
Okay, Okay. Parmenion, but is it 100 percent for the advanced mentalist? Or is it as close to 100 pct as can be depending on the the spectator etc? Even MOABT is not 100 percent but it is the best out there bar none.

CinChiller I was thinking more like the Homicide BT.
Message: Posted by: parmenion (Jun 23, 2008 03:09PM)
No, I think a beginner mentalist can do it
It's not self working you have to practice a lot for a beginner and a little bit for an advanced.
The system is 100 % but the words you use are important ( so it's because I say it's better if you already do mentalism)
Anyway for me it's a best principle I'e ever seen ( with insight :))
But has everything it's matter of taste.
For instance I don't like MOABT principles but I agree it's a good book.
At least everything is question of perception and presentation( for a book test)
Message: Posted by: CinChiller (Jun 23, 2008 04:17PM)
Candin,
the principle has nothing to do with Rickīs Homicide book test. I like the outlaw booktests very much, but they are completly different from the grandmother.

The grandmother is a pure and direct booktest. If somebody would ask me how a "typical" real booktest should look like - I would answer like the Grandmother.
But I think the mentalist should be advanced for a 100% clear and believable presentation. Itīs definitly nothing for a beginner.
Message: Posted by: RichardShure (Jun 23, 2008 06:30PM)
The real question is . . . . what will we call book tests when we run out of relatives.

Richard S
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 24, 2008 02:37AM)
Thanks fellows. Well Im a little bit more experienced then a "just starting out" mentalist. Or at least my audiences must believe so or did I put that in their minds:)

Sounds like a winner. My German is not real good although I did live there for two years. Looking forward to the release of the English version.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Jul 29, 2008 08:34PM)
Only a few more days to go for the release of this one. I've pre ordered mine. Will be interesting to see if it lends itself to my performing style.

Neal
Message: Posted by: LukeB (Jul 30, 2008 05:16AM)
Yeh same.Lets hope we don't wait 7-8 weeks for delivery.
You should be able to mould to your style...you know the basics ie detective story..you could go anywhere with that..
wonder how it will compare with the Shakespeare test..pretty soon moab number 2 ?
Message: Posted by: Pierre Emmanuel (Jul 31, 2008 11:47PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-11 16:30, lamystique wrote:
Why is it brilliant?
[/quote]

it shines in the dark ?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 1, 2008 11:25PM)
I really do hope that it is much less confusing than AstroStar. I know Ted Lesley really likes AstroStar, but Ted's mind works like a calculator, and he has the German version, so he can perform it quite well. However, I found the instructions to AstroStar confusing and unclear. Maybe I should have had the German instructions.

One of the risks that foreign producers of English-language books and props take is the use of non-native English-speaking translators. Cellini's book [i]The Royal Touch[/i] was originally in English. Then it was translated into another language, presumably German, then retranslated into English. It became a mish-mash of errors.

Braco's infamous floating ball trick was marred by a translator whose knowlege of English was faulty. It was further marred by a high price. But that price wasn't set by Braco. I know the background on the whole thing. It should have never happened.

The videos of Bruno Copin are also flawed by similarly inept translations. It's not difficult to find people who can do the work. In fact, it's not even expensive in some cases.

So I hope Edward has at least had someone who is a native speaker of English read the text of both the book and the instructions. If he hasn't, this [i]Hound of the Baskervilles[/i] will be a real dog.
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Aug 2, 2008 11:46PM)
Thanks Bill.
Message: Posted by: eSamuels (Aug 3, 2008 09:38AM)
But Bill, as you well know, often times translations are done (as an after-thought) by a "friend or associate who (supposedly) knows the language," and the results speak for themselves. This isn't just in the magic world, it happens everywhere including product marketing.

But then again, even some so-called 'professional' translators aren't quite as skilled as their title would suggest. You may recall a book called "English As She Is Spoke - The New Guide of The Conversation in Portuguese and English;" a phrase book that went through several translation minefields. The authors allegedly used a Portuguese to French and then a French to English dictionary to result in gems like: "To craunch A marmoset!" and, of course, the famous proverb - "The stone as roll not heap up not foam"
Message: Posted by: BlakeAdams (Aug 4, 2008 12:56AM)
Once this comes out I would love to see a review and find out if the translation is good
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 5, 2008 02:56AM)
It's really fairly easy to tell if a translation is good. Read the book. If you start laughing out of context, it's not a good translation.

I've been translating magic books and instructions for about 30 years. The first lesson I learned was that if it doesn't read well in the target language, it's not correct. This presumes that the original was correct, of course.

Once in a while you find a book that has interesting linguistic problems. For example, the Hanussen book that I finished earlier this year was written by a man who was not formally educated. His knowledge of writing came from reading psychology texts, 19th century literature and scandal sheets. He adopted some of the more annoying habits of the psychologists and the 19th century writers. He also had lots of Viennese slang and interesting idioms in his writing.

I learned a long time ago that when you have a problem, you ask someone who speaks the language you are working with and is familiar with the art form that is germane to the subject. Hanussen was the first author I had translated since I got out of college who was not still alive while I was doing the work. When I had trouble with Ted Lesley's material, I would just call him and ask him what he meant by a certain term. I did the same with Punx and Borodin.

I do understand the problems of cross-dictionary translating, though. I once had to translate a set of instructions from German to Portuguese for a Brazilian opthalmologist I knew. This was actually a lot of fun! But I didn't have to write a whole book about it.

It reminds me of the Monty Python skit that has the punch lines
"Please fondle my bum."
"Oh, yes, the train station is over two blocks and then you turn right."
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 5, 2008 03:02AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 03:56, Bill Palmer wrote:
I've been translating magic books and instructions for about 30 years.
[/quote]

Bill, for that alone you have my undying respect. I'm dead serious. I remember once when I was teaching over in Korea, I was having a bad day. Wanting to communicate this to my co-worker, I asked her how to say "I'm bitter." in Korean. She and her friend deliberated for a good five minutes before rattling off some complicated saying that they thought adequately explained it. I asked them to translate what they'd said directly into English. "I'm bitter." magically transformed into "I am a man for whom the rice is not delicious."
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 5, 2008 04:10AM)
Thanks for your understanding. Translating is like solving a puzzle, sometimes. It's one thing to ask where the bathroom is, and an entirely different matter following the directions to get there.

When I translate a large work, I usually read at least half of it, perhaps more, depending on the author, before I even start the translation. This gives me an idea of the style of the original author. Then I try to capture the style in an English equivalent. Ted Lesley is fairly easy to translate. He writes like Ken Brooke. I once mentioned this to him, and he took it as the compliment I had intended it to be. Then he admitted that he got the idea for his style from reading Ken Brooke's instruction sheets.

Punx was difficult sometimes, but I liked stories when I was a kid, so I didn't have too much trouble capturing some of that feeling. Borodin writes in a very unusual manner. He often writes poetry. Some of it is fairly easy to translate. Some isn't. However Borodin and I have a friend who lives near him, and she is a poetess. So she translates his poems for me. I am incredibly grateful to her for the work she helped me with in his books.

Borodin also likes to have one style for his lighter stories and another for his really spooky stuff. That's no problem at all.

At one point, he wanted to use American spelling in the lighter story section and British spelling in the other, but I convinced him that it would confuse the reviewers. He understood what I meant, and I went ahead to provide him with the atmosphere he wanted in the books.

I still have the occasional near miss. When I was working on the Cezanne Code, I mistranslated the word Fotograf as photograph. It actually means photographer. I caught it when I was reading the text right before I printed the book. The sentence just didn't make sense, no matter what I did to it. So I looked up the word and realized I had just fallen into a false cognate trap. But I did catch it in time, so that was good.

The main thing that a translator must be able to do is to write well in his own language. I had an English teacher in college who worked with me very patiently until I got the hang of it.

Sometimes I really enjoy translating, especially if it's material that I feel is really artistic or historically significant. Other times, it's like translating laundry lists.
Message: Posted by: LukeB (Aug 6, 2008 04:01AM)
Ok guys I have this on pre-order but the instructions arrived in my inbox with a note saying the item has shipped.
The instructions are kind of translated word for word so its a bit messy but you seem to be able to make perfect sense out of it.
I'll post a review when I receive the book but so far, and after reading the instructions- I'm happy I bought this.
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Aug 12, 2008 04:55PM)
Arrived back home from my latest gig yesterday to find my pre ordered "Grandmother of all booktests" waiting for me. :) The instructions had been emailed to me a few days before.

I'm happy to give an opinion and 1st impressions on this purchase but would rather do so in the 'Inner Thoughts' area of the Café.

Neal
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Aug 12, 2008 04:55PM)
Arrived back home from my latest gig yesterday to find my pre ordered "Grandmother of all booktests" waiting for me. :) The instructions had been emailed to me a few days before.

I'm happy to give an opinion and 1st impressions on this purchase but would rather do so in the 'Inner Thoughts' area of the Café.

Neal
Message: Posted by: Sealegs (Aug 13, 2008 06:57PM)
My review can be found [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=270472&forum=82&1]here[/url]

Neal
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Aug 23, 2008 07:45AM)
Enjoyed the comments on the perils of translation. Reminds me of the story of the folks who worked on an early design of computer-based translation software. To test it they linked a computer using the English to Russian translation software to one using the Russian to English version. To test it they entered "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" into the English to Russian computer. The output was then automatically fed into the Russian to English machine and out came "The Vodka's okay, but the meat's gone bad."
Message: Posted by: o. (Aug 11, 2019 07:36AM)
Although this thread seems dead, it‘s a long shot..

Does somebody still use Empathy today?