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Topic: Cyclone Card Change - 100% visual change.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 24, 2008 07:27AM)
Hello!

Just wanted to let you know about my new trick 'Cyclone Card'.

Basically I was challenged years ago at the IBM convention in Cleveland to make a card change while spinning it. I came up with a method on the spot and made up a crude mock up but after years and years I am proud to say I am happy with the mechanics and workings of it. Essentially you hold a card and show both sides and flick it so it spins. When it stops spinning it has changed to a different card and you can show the back again if you like.

A nice added bonus is you can have a large sticker signed which you stick to the face of the King and yet the sticker still remains exactly where it is after the change. Amazing huh? :D

Some nice presentation ideas are as follows:

*Show your prediction card to be incorrect. Flick it and it corrects itself.
*Have two cards selected and your card changes to match both predictions.
*Do a card transposition effect where you give the 3 Clubs to a spectator while you hold the King of Clubs. Yours now changes to the 3 Clubs and the spectator turns over their card to show the King Clubs.

The card is 100% gaffed naturally and made of plastic for durability.
It is not available yet - perhaps towards the end of the year as they are rather complex to make by hand.

Have a look at the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1w1vzj-SbY

It will not be Bicycle stock or design. Is this an issue to you all? It is presented as the 'lone' prediction card so maybe it does not matter if it does not match Bicycle branded cards.

Would you prefer a DVD with it? Having said that there is not much to learn other than flicking it.

Any feedback on being able to provide exactly what you would like is appreciated.

Best wishes,

Angelo.
Message: Posted by: Lloyd Barnes (May 24, 2008 08:07AM)
This sounds and looks very promising, excelent piece of work there.

One question, can you spin the card with one hand to make it change instead of flicking it?

also, I love the idea of the sticker staying on the card, very cool.

lastly, I would prefer it to be Bicycle design however.

Well done, looks excellent.
Message: Posted by: Y2John (May 24, 2008 09:05AM)
Looks very nice... though would prefer on bikes, it's no biggie as you just routine it so that they done see the back at that point... or... I'd have it as a prediction card (diff makes it good this way), and I'd make the prediction be wrong, then flick to change to the right one etc.

Looks cool.
Message: Posted by: Crimson-Death (May 24, 2008 09:26AM)
Nice, it would be cool to have it on Bikes, but whatever is cool too. Would we also learn how to make these, or is it more effective to buy them as we need them?
Message: Posted by: Robert M (May 24, 2008 09:36AM)
Very nice, Angelo!

Robert
Message: Posted by: altrez (May 24, 2008 09:39AM)
I like it! It looks very clean.
Message: Posted by: APC (May 24, 2008 10:30AM)
A beautiful change! I !@#ume that if you take the sticker approach then you cannot hand it out, correct? Still look forward to this!

Adam
Message: Posted by: Tim Jahn (May 24, 2008 10:48AM)
Very Nice!! Great job!!

I'll have to go with the Bikes would be better (At least for me) opinion as well though. The change with a sticker sounds unbelievable!!

Tim
Message: Posted by: thehawk (May 24, 2008 11:03AM)
Bikes for me too. Great change.
Message: Posted by: dreamadream99 (May 24, 2008 01:39PM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-24 11:30, baskitboy5 wrote:
A beautiful change! I !@#ume that if you take the sticker approach then you cannot hand it out, correct? Still look forward to this!
[/quote]

I @ssume you cannot hand it out either way.
My guess is, also, that the construction of the gaffed card doesn't work with the design of the Bicycles, and requires a more pattern friendly back.

Looks great though, and many will pick this up despite any limitations, because it looks so good.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 24, 2008 02:22PM)
Thanks for the feedback so far. As it is an ultra gaffed card (has to be by the very nature of the effect)it cannot be handed out for examination however there is nothing stopping you from switching it for a regular duplicate. You cannot have it soin by itself. It needs to be flicked. Yes the back design is important but only if you want to show the back of the card. I knew everyone would prefer a bicycle back design :)
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 24, 2008 02:34PM)
Angelo, it's exactly that switch to another card (or getting/making more of them) which leaves me less than enthused about the item. It's so tempting to say "let me see that card" and if it's not both utterly ordinary looking (ie familiar) and part of a pack...

Will you be offering instructions on how to make more for oneself?

Also tempted to ask about how the setup is for that change is it's so stunning as to invite routined use.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 24, 2008 02:52PM)
Jonathan, show me or create a trick where a card visually changes into another card while spinning and that can be immediately examined. Alas I don't know how to do real magic. :D

It has to be gimmicked if it cahnges while it spins. Its not a normal colour change with sleight of hand.

There are SO many tricks out there which cannot be examined such as Brainwave Deck and other gaffed decks and packet tricks. It all depends on how you present a trick and how fair it seems and then you would not need to worry about people asking to see the card. You do not have to switch it out. It is just an option. I never do. I take it out of a leather business card holder and show it as my prediction card which is wrong so I change it and replace it back in my case.

Best wishes,

Angelo
Message: Posted by: KMan1564 (May 24, 2008 03:23PM)
First of all, great song choice. Brings me back to the Ammar series of videos I had as a kid.

Secondly, I really like the change. It's so visual. I do have some of the concerns that Jonathan mentioned, but I'm sure I could incorporate the change into a routine where there's less of a "let me look at it" attitude.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (May 24, 2008 06:09PM)
Just change it, immediately put it away and move on to the next trick. Don't see examinability as being an issue if handled correctly.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 24, 2008 06:12PM)
I like the change - just want some options to hand them something at some point which they can hold and touch. I know they aren't looking for mechanical stuff and just want to touch the props. People are like that. It's when you imply they can't touch the props that they get "that look".
Message: Posted by: silverking (May 24, 2008 06:24PM)
I like it.

The back doesn't bother me a bit.....it looks like a KEM card, and with only one card only magi will know the difference.
Message: Posted by: KMan1564 (May 24, 2008 06:46PM)
On a tangent, I absolutely love KEMs. Not for magic, but just for their longevity and feel. If you've never experienced a deck of KEMs before, I highly recommend them. They're expensive, but they last such a long time, especially if you take care of them.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 24, 2008 07:42PM)
Yes it is a KEM deck. Back design works perfectly for this trick but I am sure Bicycle may be just as good too! I used KEM because they are plastic cards.
Message: Posted by: silverking (May 24, 2008 07:47PM)
Plastic sounds more durable, even without knowing the method!

KEM card backs are pretty well known these days, it's not like it's kittens or scenes of Italy on the back.

Would the Bicycle being paper make the gaff less durable?........if so KEM's make more sense?

BTW.....did I mention that the effect looks REALLY good!!
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 24, 2008 07:53PM)
I tried standard cardboard cards. After a while the corner gets all battered from the several flicks of the hard finger nail. It has to be made of plastic for durability. Period. Thanks Silveking and others for the compliments.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (May 24, 2008 08:13PM)
The change looks great!! But, I do think that this would be better in plastic coated Bicycle cards, if that's possible.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 24, 2008 08:17PM)
I'm cool with the KEM cards to start - just need to get comfortable setting a context where after the change there's a process to take the heat and preferably the attention off that card.

The "too perfect" theory applies properly: If you have nothing in your hands but a card and your sleeves are all rolled and up the card is out front and center...and then it changes - and you still have nothing else in your hands... time to look at the card.
Message: Posted by: magicman899 (May 24, 2008 09:15PM)
Very visual Angelo!
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (May 24, 2008 10:26PM)
Angelo,

Totally stunning, mate! To me, the back does not matter. It's the face that changes! And so long as the back is a back, that's all that matters.

I want it NOW!!!!

Ben
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (May 25, 2008 06:06AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-24 11:30, baskitboy5 wrote:
A beautiful change! I !@#ume that if you take the sticker approach then you cannot hand it out, correct? Still look forward to this!

Adam
[/quote]
I can't believe the dirty words police program triggers for the word "!@#ume"
Message: Posted by: joseph (May 25, 2008 06:19AM)
[quote]
On 2008-05-25 07:06, DStachowiak wrote:
I can't believe the dirty words police program triggers for the word "!@#ume"
[/quote]

So that's what happened...They did the same to me the other day...
Anyways, great job on the video....
Message: Posted by: chias (May 25, 2008 08:03AM)
Slick. Any 'early release' about the approximate price?

Would like it to be using Bikes.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (May 25, 2008 09:44AM)
Looks grteat on camera but what about real world ????
just curious
vinny
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 25, 2008 02:26PM)
Ben: Thanks! :) Will send you one soon.

Vinsmagic: It works fine for me in the real world but then I would say that right? No seriously, have shown it many times to people. I have the card in my business card case (which also protects it), perform the trick and put it away again.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: The Mac (May 25, 2008 02:35PM)
Angelo this is great!

in a routine you can have all the cards inspected then switch this in and then out again..cause we are magicians right?

How much will it be? will I be able to build my own if I want to make more cards.. imagine:

you give 4 spectators each an ace to hold between there palms. You then deal four indifferent cards onto the table. You change them visually one at a time. BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM! now the spectators have the indifferent cards in their hands. (pleanty of time to switch in examinable cards while they freaking out.

a fourway ..lol
Message: Posted by: gmmagic124 (May 26, 2008 05:39PM)
Holy smokes!!!

That rocked me.

Good going, brother.
Message: Posted by: edh (May 26, 2008 10:33PM)
Angelo, can you substitute the pirouette(sp) spin for the flick that you use?

I would also like Bikes with this.

And, finally like has been asked here before, can we make our own g'd card?

I like it the idea.

thanks for your response.
edh
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 27, 2008 10:01AM)
The Mac: No idea on price yet. Depends on how they are made or if the user makes them.

edh: No you have to flick it. Its the flick that does the trick ;)

As for the question to make your own cards, it is not impossible to do but it will be difficult and you would require time, patience and a steady hand. It is fiddly and you have to be precise.

Best wishes,

Angelo
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (May 27, 2008 10:52AM)
It looks nice, but because it has to be switched out, I don't see any "real" strength over a top change. yeah yeah this is "visual". do a top change, hand the card to a spec and they will think it changes in their hand after you snap and tell them to turn it over.

nifty although. and I d say good job. just questioning the real value
Message: Posted by: DonEngland (May 27, 2008 11:46AM)
I like it.
Message: Posted by: Corey K (May 27, 2008 01:03PM)
Looks awesome, Angelo. I actually saw the video on your MySpace. Your other tricks on there are just as cool, too..
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (May 27, 2008 05:49PM)
Thanks Don and Corey. Yes those videos and new ones are on my youtube channel: Magicreator.

Angrlo
Message: Posted by: bryanlonden (Sep 16, 2008 12:12AM)
Is this still being released?
Message: Posted by: jbadman (Sep 16, 2008 05:20AM)
If it is, I want one! I was under the impression this would never see mass market simply because of how painstakingly fiddly it is to construct. Awesome effect and as expected from Angelo, ingenious.

Jamie.
Message: Posted by: MField2000 (Sep 17, 2008 04:30AM)
I've seen Angelo perform this for knowledgeable magicians at The Magic Circle and it looks fantastic. The method is even more fantastic.

Do a Top Change if you want to hand out the card afterwards.

Matt Field
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Sep 17, 2008 09:14PM)
Hello all!

A recent question was asked is if it is still being released.

My answer is I don't know if I should bother.

Why? Because I just discovered 5 whole pages to discussing the method, revealing it, photos of it, frame by frame analysis and video tutorials of how to make it. Granted there are some specific details missing but it really annoys me. Why should I bother to invent or release something if nobody respects the magic or the ethics anymore? This was the same with my "Out of Order" - another of my hugely ripped off tricks. It just wants to make me not release anything anymore. Even my new "Ascent Floating Card" is under attack in the forums. I can't win.

There may be the arguement of why did I release the video of it in the first place. It was to share a magical effect that I loved and one day wanted to release. Now I know to do so prematurely is more damaging.

If you know a secret or figure something out, keep it to yourself please ok? Don't shout about it or tell people to make yourself big, clever and important. The old guy who did the video tutorial claims to be 25 years in magic and this is what he resorts to? Shame on him - he should know better. How can you be into magic and completely fail to respect it?

Youtube videos removed publically now.

I'm done.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: tomcards (Sep 18, 2008 03:49PM)
Angelo,

I'm sorry to hear about that. That guy should be flayed alive! I'd still be willing to pay you a fair price for your wonderful card change, if you ever decide to release it.


Regrets,

Tom Frame
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Sep 18, 2008 06:19PM)
Yeah I second that.....This looks amazing.....almost too amazing....actually it is too amazing! I would really love this effect to be in my routine. don't let those people on that forum get you down man, they are just people who wont go anywhere with their magic because all they care about is secrets. Im sure their method isn't even working for everyday routine....if these people actually perform for people other than their parents. Exposure is going to be everywhere and its an unfortunate factor of our art. Please don't let it effect you, I know its hard, but I think I speak for all of us when I say that I would really love to see more from you, especially cyclone and ascent. They look great. If you decide to sell your effects or not, its up to you but please, please don't stop inventing. I have seen what you can do and its a true talent. don't give up on it Angelo.

Regards,
Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: ahzhe (Sep 21, 2008 10:57AM)
Preferable bicycle card, but it doesn't really matter.
if you think there is no need to have a dvd, then just don't do it, perhaps this can cut the cost and make it cheaper.
this is an awesome trick, I hope that your 'ascend' can be released asap as well
Message: Posted by: Rabid (Sep 24, 2008 05:52AM)
Gutted.

Came across this thread and started reading avidly, only to find that someone screwed you and you've taken down your videos. That sucks mate, really and truly.

From reading about it, the effect sounds cool...shame I'll never see it now...ha.


Best of luck for the future Angelo.
(By the way, nice idea for that Ring Flight of yours)


Rabid
Message: Posted by: QED (Oct 22, 2008 01:29PM)
Don't be a hypocrit Nico... you know you're a member AND a moderator over at "that" forum, Mr. Great Illusions, and you have exposed as much or more than anybody over there... and you were just as involved in trying to come up with a method to do the cyclone card as anyone at that forum....
AND the reason you are pumping this effect up is that Angelo is a friend of yours... and you would still be there talking about this effect if he hadn't twisted your arm to stop...
And you know as well as anybody that MOST of the members there are sincerely interested in learning as much as they can about magic and care about much more than just the secrets (sure there are some there who only want free magic - no phony denials here - but that's THEIR loss).

Angelo, if someone came up with a way to do what your cyclone card does without knowing the secret, aren't they doing the same thing as you? that is, coming up with new ways of doing effects? It's only natural. You were challenged to create this effect and you did it. Why is that any different than anybody else being challenged by seeing something and wanting to come up with their own way of doing it? It's the way magic has been practiced forever, and the way it will continue to be practiced. And you know what they say - "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". Yeah, kids, listen to Angelo... don't tell anybody how something works, just package it and sell it yourself - don't share it with anybody. That REALLY makes you big, clever or important.
I mean, Angelo, if you want to stop inventing, that's your business... do it... or keep on inventing but just keep them to yourself and don't release them for sale... but don't act like you're punishing anyone... there's enough good magic out here that no one will miss one more effect...
But myself, I won't buy an effect without first knowing how it works... been ripped off too many times by people selling "snake oil"...
Besides - we all know that it's not the "secret" that matters... it's the magician...
Personally, I think your effect looks good, but I have no use for something like this.... I don't really care much about card tricks...and just FYI, I never read or watched the tuts or vids about how to make the gimmick...because I don't need to know... but if I DID need to know (i.e. I was intending to buy your effect and wanted to research it first), I would, and I would not feel guilty about it... Just protecting my own interests... caveat emptor my friend...
Some of you magic inventors are a shady lot... Steve Fearson's Goodbye Vanish or Ben Harris' Hole in the Head come to mind.... sorry for lumping you all into the same pile as used car salesmen, but this is life...
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Oct 22, 2008 02:12PM)
As a proud owner of Angelo's rising cards "Notion of Motion," I can attest to the quality and ingenuity of his work. I'm sorry to hear that some folks have no problems taking money out Angelo's pockets. However, I'm not surprised...All you've got to do is walk around any big city and see how many folks have no problems buying bootleg DVD's on the street corners. Lots of people just don't have the mental capacity to truly appreciate why copying other people's creations is just plain wrong.

I'm also amused when some people complain when creators price their items at an amount that will help offset the losses that they'll incur due to piracy.
Message: Posted by: Kit (Oct 22, 2008 03:52PM)
I'm sorry Angelo, but surely if people can guess how it is done merely by watching a promo video, then maybe you should make better promo vid's of your effects in the future? Afterall the method was discussed and revealed on the site BEFORE the effect was even released to the community, how is that anyone elses fault but your own? And please, don't be arrogant and say you will stop releasing material. Saying that won't help your sales.

I also find it highly amuzing that Angelo Carbone has been a member of the website himself for at least a year, maybe even double that. He is fine reading about other people's secrets, but as soon as one of his own effects is discussed he uses the copyright card. Copyright hasn't been breached, the effect wasn't even released, mate. The effect was exposed due to a shoddy video on youtube and a lot of thinking out the box. People aren't stupid.

And just so you all know, Nico was a member and MODERATOR of "this site" when he posted that message. Very, very hypocritical.

You know what they say, some are fit for leadership, others are fit to follow.
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Oct 22, 2008 04:44PM)
Ok for the record QED, Nico is not my friend. I don't know who he is or where he lives. He gave me a compliment once about my magic on Youtube and that is all. Had no idea he was a moderator on that site. Interesting...

QED: I have mentioned this before in the other "illegal" thread. They have not come up with another way to do my trick. If they did, fine, but they didn't.

I am no punishing anyone. Just airing my viewpoint as to why I am upset and why I may not release see. I have a right to do so.

Sure if you want to know how something is done so as not to feel ripped off, ask someone who owns it, research forums on reviews etc. That's the most sensible and logical thing to do. Don't try to openly and publically try to deconstruct the method over and over with photos and videos. That's not knowing how its done for the purpose of not being ripped off. That is wanting to know how its done from A - Z just for the sake of it. Let's say that knowing a new trick that you may want to buy is based on an elmsley count and roughing fluid. That should be enough info to tell you if something is for you or not. Needing to know what the order of the cards is, which cards are gimmicked, what the moves and handling are, how it I smade... well that is just learning the secret for the sake of know how its done without buying it. Hope you are seeing where I am coming from with that example. So saying knowing how something works before you buy is ok as along as you know the basics or principle. But to know ALL the details is completely uncalled for in a PUBLIC community of magicians. Its a personal thing. You want to know so as not to be ripped of. No one else asks so why share everything? If someone wants to know your opinion well they can PM you for more details. That is sensible.

KIT: That is the danger of video promos and trailers of magic effects. There are those out there who watch it for knowledge and information and pleasure. There are those who watch purely to figure out how its done. I don't think I am being arrogant at all in saying that you can figure out how its done just by watching the video as intended. Its the "special crowd" that start slowing it down, pausing it, rewinding it, analysing it, zooming in... purely to figure out how it works. That's not my fault. Many magic videos will suffer from this specific crowd. That's why some trailers are heavily edited - not to con the purchaser but to protect the secret as most magic is intended to be performed live with the spectator viewing the effect only once. The internet sadly allows you to watch over and over giving more clues each time.

So you are saying its my fault that the video was deconstructed and discussed? Regardless of whether the video was released before or after release of the trick, the video would STILL be deconstructed anyway - by that minority (I hope) of magicians who's aim is to figure out and boast how tricks are done. So would it still be my fault if I released the video after I marketed it?

As for being a member of said forum for a year or two - I don't think so. I was tipped off by someone that Cyclone was revealed in a thread so I immediately joined under another name otherwise members contributing to the thread would cover up if they knew I was there. I joined sometime in the Summer if I recall correctly. Way less than a year. Then I followed only my thread to see how far the exposure was escalating. I had no interest or time to read other threads or effects but you have to take my word for that.

Anyway how do you know my username or when I joined as it was not under Angelo? Are you actually Michael who only knows who I was there and when I joined?

It's truely amazing. I create an effect as do other inventors and its suddenly their fault if a trick is exposed. My trick was not figured out because I carelessly flashed something or it was bad handling. There was none of that. It was not a shoddy video. The video was fine. The trick was figured out only because some guys DELIBERATLY devoted time and effort to analyse the video and trick.

Angelo.
Message: Posted by: Nico Zottos (Oct 22, 2008 08:48PM)
QED, I WAS a member and I WAS a moderator. I wont tell you I never exposed things because I did. I wont tell you that I was, at one point, very involved in the forum. But I will tell you that now I know that it was a mistake and was the wrong thing to do. That was before but this is now. About a month ago I asked Mike to ban me, but he didn't want to so he suspended me until February 19, 2038 or there a bouts. I wasnt involved in trying to discover the method, I was involved in trying to cover it up and lead people off about it because Angelo may not be my friend, but I respect him as an inventor and creator in magic. I left because I didn't, and still don't, agree with the things going on there. I agree with Angelo on this. It is okay if you feel you need to know how the effect works so you don't get ripped off, I understand that. But it gets to a point when, as Angelo has stated, depicted and slowed down and zoomed in on the video to get the EXACT method. You don't need the EXACT method for any trick. That I feel (and Im sure I'm not the only one that feels this way) is the wrong way to go and isn't even necessary. People learn things from doing the wrong thing. I realized deliberately depicting tricks and every tiny bit of sleight that isn't even necessary to know if you want to buy it or not, in order to supposedly "see if I want to buy them" is WRONG. Again, I will repeat what Mr. Carbone has said. If I were to tell you a trick uses an elmsley count and some rough and smooth, that is enough to decide. that's all I have to say on this. . .

Regards,
Nico Zottos
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Oct 23, 2008 08:33AM)
Typo in my post above Nico. I did not mean to say "I don't think I am being arrogant at all in saying that you can figure out how its done just by watching the video as intended." I meant to say you CAN'T figure out how its done.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: Magic Spank (Oct 25, 2008 10:39PM)
Q. Why aren't the morons arguing in favor of blatant exposure kicked off this board?

Is everyone today anti-creator, pro-exposure? Or can't they figure out how to report a post? Personal attacks are not allowed and it seems you're taking some direct hits.

Don't let it get to you Angelo. The people who patronize these types of boards don't have the money to buy the effect anyway. They are not the paying audience and really won't influence your sales one way or another.
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (Oct 26, 2008 06:27PM)
Well put Magic Spank.

Of course, there is NO EXCUSE for the exposure--NONE.

We just have to remember...

They're just kiddies over at the "Sandbox" of Magic Forum. We can only hope they develop manners and ethics as they grow up. Imagine this generation climbing out of the "sandbox" and into the real world if they don't!!!

I went over there, joined, and got banned for offering to assist and help with details re our own products. Guess no adults are welcome in the sand pit.


Cheers

Ben
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 26, 2008 06:33PM)
Where's the demo video? I love most of Angelo's material, always brilliantly made with absolutely insane craftsmanship and method. (The rising card was pretty amazing)
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Oct 26, 2008 06:38PM)
Thanks kissdadookie. I sadly resorted to making it a private video on Youtube to prevent further analysis of it on other forums. If you want to see it PM me your Youtube nick and I will add you to the allowed viewers and message you when it is done.

Angelo
Message: Posted by: Ben Harris (Oct 27, 2008 12:15AM)
I agree Kissdadookie!!

Angelo's stuff is insanely well executed. Such attention to detail is rare these days.

Ben
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Oct 27, 2008 08:34PM)
Thanks Ben :D Ditto!
Message: Posted by: JamieD (Oct 28, 2008 07:12AM)
Awwww, come on guys, get a room ;)

JamieD