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Topic: The Ultimate Tape Over Mouth...
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Jun 8, 2008 10:20PM)
...by the legendary Bill DeMar :)

Check it out :)

http://www.cornellpublications.com/demarsecret.htm
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Jun 9, 2008 03:08PM)
I can now reveal that I bought the rights to perform this effect from Bill 2 years ago and was instructed by him over the phone how to do it. Yes, it is absolutely killer, and I use it to close my show. I performed it for 200 members of the Psychic Entertainers Association, and no one--and I mean no one--had a clue as to how it was performed.

I am honored that I was, for 2 years, the only other person in the world authorized to perform this effect by its creator.

Thank you, Bill.

Now, you other guys, grab it before it is gone.

Bob
Message: Posted by: olivertwist (Jun 9, 2008 05:45PM)
Wanlu, Thanks for bringing this back to my attention. It does sound like a killer routine. The price sounds reasonable.

Bob, you obviously think it was worth the money, right? So much in magic sounds too good to be true, then when you get it you find it's something like a ball point pen and the method 'static electricity'.
Message: Posted by: olivertwist (Jun 9, 2008 05:50PM)
Wanlu,
When I ship a soft puppet I usually double bag it for protection against water, but I put it in as small a box as it can fit in and I don't pad it becasue I know it won't break. However, one buyer was upset that I hadn't bubble wrapped his Verna Finly figure, despite the fact that it arrived fine. I'll pack it any way you like, I just wanted to give you my thoughts on how I do it.

Oliver
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Jun 9, 2008 07:09PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-09 18:45, olivertwist wrote:

Bob, you obviously think it was worth the money, right? So much in magic sounds too good to be true, then when you get it you find it's something like a ball point pen and the method 'static electricity'.
[/quote]

When I was discussing purchasing this with Bill, he was concerned that I would feel that I didn't get my money's worth when I learned the secret. I told him, "I'm not buying the secret. I'm buying the effect and the 50 years of experience that went into it."

Considering what I was buying, the price (same as is being offered now) was dirt cheap!

Bob
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Jun 9, 2008 09:41PM)
[quote]
On 2008-06-09 18:50, olivertwist wrote:
Wanlu,
When I ship a soft puppet I usually double bag it for protection against water, but I put it in as small a box as it can fit in and I don't pad it becasue I know it won't break. However, one buyer was upset that I hadn't bubble wrapped his Verna Finly figure, despite the fact that it arrived fine. I'll pack it any way you like, I just wanted to give you my thoughts on how I do it.

Oliver
[/quote]

Thanks Oliver,

I'll pack your duck using Bubble Wraps, then put it in a big plastic bag..then in a box :) Pack mine the same way :)

I'll pack all other orders the same way :)

Now back to the topic: :)

I really seldom do gigs for adults...I do more for children or family. Will this routine be entertaining for kids?

Another thing, the basic tape over mouth thing is not a usual thing here in Manila. So far, only one vent in Manila is doing it, my pal Ony Carcamo. My point is, the DeMar tape over mouth thing might only look interesting in places where the basic tape over mouth has been seen regularly. Does it make sense?

If I do the basic tape over mouth thing for a crowd who has not seen it before, it might just have the same effect with the Demar method. But if for example I do the basic tape over mouth thing first... then do the DeMar method for the same crowd, that might have a different impact...

In any case, I think the Demar method is a treasure find...


Wanlu
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Jun 9, 2008 11:21PM)
I have performed my own method of the tape-over-mouth in every type of audiences possible and I'd say that the effect is much more appreciated by adult viewers versus kids (though I'm not saying some kids--older kids--found it amazing.

This trick is a killer for audiences who know what ventriloquism is--and obviously, younger kids don't know that we talk for our figures.
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Jun 10, 2008 06:44AM)
Ony wrote:

"...This trick is a killer for audiences who know what ventriloquism is--and

obviously, younger kids don't know that we talk for our figures."
_____________________


You do?????!!!! :cry:
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Jun 10, 2008 06:55AM)
LOL!
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Jun 10, 2008 09:16AM)
I've seen Jay Johnson do his version of TOM (two vertically placed strips) and I was impressed with it until I saw Bill's, which is much more mystifying. With Jay's, you know he is still talking. With Bill's, there is no clue.

And you're right, Wanlu, I don't think kids would appreciate it beyond the humor of having the puppet try to make you shut up.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Jun 29, 2008 08:15PM)
Uncle Bill's version of the Tape Over Mouth bit had been my main closer in my recent adult shows, and I tell you it killed EVERY TIME! A most amazing
ventriloquial trick! It will most likely remain as my favorite closer
from now on.

I did it once, the first time, in a kid show yesterday at it went very
well. The parents in the room were awed! I used the b-day boy's Mom as my stage assistant.

I'm so lucky to be one of the very few who got the license and the
proper instruction of the routine. I even received personal tips from Uncle Bill via emails.

Thanks, Uncle Bill, for this wonderful material!

A couple of pictures from an adult gig:
http://onycarcamo.tripod.com/id16.html
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Jul 2, 2008 06:12PM)
Well, I broke down and decided to order. I was actually planning to add a T.O.M. after seeing Jay Johnson. I wrote a routine and was practicing. May combine my bit with Bill's.
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Jul 2, 2008 09:24PM)
Im planning to get one...

Just planning...:)
Message: Posted by: querni (Oct 17, 2008 10:01AM)
Hi folks,

Im Christoph from Germany...Im a newbee in this forum, and I saw all articles before I ordered that routine...

I received it yesterday...

Its a mystifing killer, I think...

Cant wait until ill perform it the first time... and the price is really reasonable... And Bob Baker is right, when he wrote:

" I'm not buying the secret. I'm buying the effect and the 50 years of experience that went into it."

Best wishes,

Christoph
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Oct 17, 2008 11:33AM)
Welcome Christoph! Let us know how your first performance with it goes.
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Oct 17, 2008 03:20PM)
I would love to get the TOM but still a bit out of my price range. I hope to get it some day for sure.
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Oct 17, 2008 04:38PM)
Neale,
I'd do it before Lee sells out of them. They are limiting to 50 licenses. Just book an extra show and its paid for!
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Oct 19, 2008 11:04AM)
Still considering it.
Message: Posted by: querni (Oct 25, 2008 10:47AM)
Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys!!!

I received the bit last week, practiced it one week and did it....
Yesterday evening, 300 person in the hall... and the bit...

WOW!!!

The effect was: "Ahhhhhhhhh" and "Oooooooooooooooh" and "How is that possible" during my act... The people were amazed... And my Theodor, my puppet and me, we enjoyed the bit too, it was great fun acting that routine...

Cool, its a killer! I made 4 new books after my act...
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Oct 25, 2008 02:06PM)
Glad it worked out so well for you!
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Oct 25, 2008 06:14PM)
Hi Cristoph,

Congratulations!!! :) and welcome to the Caf :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: AC Vent (Jan 22, 2009 04:40PM)
I thought I would jump into this thread, and just see if there is anyone else that has purchased the DeMar tape over mouth system, and what they think of it...


AC
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Aug 21, 2009 12:06PM)
Question: Will TOM work if the vent is using a wireless headworn or earset mic?

I asked Lee and he said yes it will but I figured I could use a little feedback from those who actually use TOM in their act.

Thanks :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Aug 21, 2009 02:28PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-21 13:06, Wanlu wrote:
Question: Will TOM work if the vent is using a wireless headworn or earset mic?

I asked Lee and he said yes it will but I figured I could use a little feedback from those who actually use TOM in their act.

Thanks :)

Wanlu

Wanlu:

I always wear a wireless headset mic and yes, TOM works just fine. Obviously the person on stage applying the tape has be careful not to tape the mic to your face.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Aug 21, 2009 06:34PM)
I use a lavelier mike for reasons that users of the routine will understand. I'm interested in Doug's comment that the head mic works, too. Doug, do you use your left hand to lift the mike a little?

Bob
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Aug 21, 2009 06:48PM)
I choose not to comment.

Secret is too sacred, too closely guarded by Bill DeMar for 50+ years, and too expensive to risk any littlest possible exposure.
Bob and other TOM users know why.

I suggest no public discussion even on its smallest intricacies, workings, techniques, props, etc. I hope TOM users will agree. I'm so sure Uncle Bill will apprecate it.

My mouth is tightly sealed on this :)
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Aug 21, 2009 08:08PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-21 19:34, Bob Baker wrote:
I use a lavelier mike for reasons that users of the routine will understand. I'm interested in Doug's comment that the head mic works, too. Doug, do you use your left hand to lift the mike a little?

Bob
[/quote]

Bob:

PM'd you.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Aug 22, 2009 01:14AM)
My big thanks, doug.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 22, 2009 07:28AM)
I think it is a little pricey, $497.
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Aug 22, 2009 07:50AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-21 19:48, Ony Carcamo wrote:
I choose not to comment.

Secret is too sacred, too closely guarded by Bill DeMar for 50+ years, and too expensive to risk any littlest possible exposure.
Bob and other TOM users know why.

I suggest no public discussion even on its smallest intricacies, workings, techniques, props, etc. I hope TOM users will agree. I'm so sure Uncle Bill will apprecate it.

My mouth is tightly sealed on this :)
[/quote]

My apologies...I hate exposure as well. :)

My question is just simple...will TOM work even with a headworn mic?

... this is because I use a headworn mic and I don't want to buy TOM only to find out that it won't work with my headworn mic. :)

I guess Lee's word will be good enough...

Thanks :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Aug 22, 2009 08:05AM)
Dynamike,
You are buying an original routine with performance rights. That is why the price is high. This is also a limited offer - not everyone will be out there doing it. That alone is worth something. It ends up being less than a penny per show when you do it for several years. I believe it is worth more than the fee, even though I have only performed it in one show.

As for anyone who is trying to guess and figure out the details to avoid spending money - why bother? Even if you discover a version of the secret, you won't have the rights to do the bit. By purchasing Bill's TOM, you get all the inside tips and secrets that come from his years of experience on stage.
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Aug 22, 2009 08:28AM)
What Tom said.

This is a routine that audiences will talk about and remember. You are not spending all that money for the secret, but for the effect. Frankly, I think that Bill priced it too low; it's that good. In every show that I perform with Oscar (pictured in my avatar), I close with this bit. Frankly, there is nothing that can follow it.

By purchasing it, you will be one of only 51 people (including Bill D.) in the world who do this routine. Man, that's gotta be worth something right there.

On another note, I'm wondering how many of you use this routine in your publicity. I don't because I don't want to tip off the audience to what is coming. I'm curious what the rest of you do.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Aug 22, 2009 09:02AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 09:28, Bob Baker wrote:
On another note, I'm wondering how many of you use this routine in your publicity. I don't because I don't want to tip off the audience to what is coming. I'm curious what the rest of you do.

Bob
[/quote]

Bob,
I use the TOM heavily for my publicity because I'm the only one doing this in my country. I even made a logo that shows it (my avatar)! It's my main closer now and it has become MY SIGNATURE ACT this past year. The TOM has been associated with me and my show and my audience look forward to seeing it in my finale.

Ony
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Aug 22, 2009 10:10AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 09:28, Bob Baker wrote:
What Tom said.

This is a routine that audiences will talk about and remember. You are not spending all that money for the secret, but for the effect. Frankly, I think that Bill priced it too low; it's that good. In every show that I perform with Oscar (pictured in my avatar), I close with this bit. Frankly, there is nothing that can follow it.

By purchasing it, you will be one of only 51 people (including Bill D.) in the world who do this routine. Man, that's gotta be worth something right there.

On another note, I'm wondering how many of you use this routine in your publicity. I don't because I don't want to tip off the audience to what is coming. I'm curious what the rest of you do.

Bob
[/quote]

What Tom and Bob Said.

I agree with Tom, this is priced much too low.

I don't advertise this for the same reason Tom doesn't advertise it. To each his own though. If you feel it enhances your ability to book more shows, etc. then knock yourself out.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Aug 22, 2009 10:13AM)
I don't advertise this for the same reason Tom doesn't advertise it.

Sorry, typo, meant to say Bob doesn't advertise it.
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (Aug 22, 2009 06:41PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 11:10, Doug Arden wrote:
[quote]
To each his own though. If you feel it enhances your ability to book more shows, etc. then knock yourself out.

Doug
[/quote]

Hi Doug,

The TOM is the highlight of my shows because it helped made my act unique among the many ventriloquists here in our country, and thus it has booked more shows for me--that's why I advertise it.

I guess NOT advertising it, like what you do, also has great merits.

All the best,
Ony
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Aug 22, 2009 09:45PM)
Hi Ony:

Like I said, to each his own. I certainly wasn't demeaning the fact that you advertise this and if it came across that way, I apologize. I'm glad to hear advertising this routine is working so well for you. Best wishes for continued success!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Aug 23, 2009 06:53AM)
Ony, I think in our country, only ventriloquists with high respect to the art of ventriloquism would purchase TOM.

I hesitated buying this when it was released because I use a headworn mic and I had the impression that it wont work with such kind of mic. In any case, I asked Lee recently and he confirmed that this will work with a headworn mic, I certainly hope so because I just purchased TOM two days ago.

Out of respect to Ony, I don't plan to advertise the routine the way Ony does. It won't even be a regular part of my act. I do mostly kidshows and I don't think the kids would understand it...I just want to know how its done and be able to do it only if I need to. :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 23, 2009 07:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-22 09:05, tacrowl wrote:
Dynamike,
You are buying an original routine with performance rights. That is why the price is high. This is also a limited offer - not everyone will be out there doing it. That alone is worth something. It ends up being less than a penny per show when you do it for several years. I believe it is worth more than the fee, even though I have only performed it in one show.
[/quote]
Ok, I understand. That's clear.

[quote]
As for anyone who is trying to guess and figure out the details to avoid spending money - why bother? Even if you discover a version of the secret, you won't have the rights to do the bit. By purchasing Bill's TOM, you get all the inside tips and secrets that come from his years of experience on stage.
[/quote]
Now I got some questions. Imagine some are doing it on stage because they bought it. Now imagine others are doing it because they figured out an idea to how it works. How would you tell one from the other in a live performance?

Here is something else to look at. Imagine someone else was doing the same/similar thing before Bill. Will that same person have the rights to continue performing it it they thought of the same/similar idea first?

Okay last question. Imagine the knock offs in magic tricks. They will not get in trouble because the original was not patented because of the cost of money. Is something being done about this to keep it from being a knock off? Picture how many "Torn and Restored Newspapers" were supplied after the first one.

I understand my questions might be a little a tricky to answer because I do not know the secret myself. I do not know if it is just a DVD explaining how to perform it or if a special prop is included in the instructions.
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Aug 23, 2009 08:03AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-23 08:17, Dynamike wrote:
Now I got some questions. Imagine some are doing it on stage because they bought it. Now imagine others are doing it because they figured out an idea to how it works. How would you tell one from the other in a live performance?
[/quote]

Lee Cornell handles the certification and Bill DeMar knows who has his licenses. There are certain things involved that, just by watching a video, you would not catch. Any licensee would most likely be able to catch a non-licensed performance. Unlike magic, ventriloquism is a fairly small community - it would get around fairly quickly.

[quote]
Here is something else to look at. Imagine someone else was doing the same/similar thing before Bill. Will that same person have the rights to continue performing it it they thought of the same/similar idea first?
[/quote]

There is another TOM - but it involves a single strip of tape up and down over the mouth. Bill DeMar is known for the multiple strips and "sealing the lips". He is already recognized as the creator of this by ventriloquists world wide. There is no doubt as to who created this version.

[quote]
Okay last question. Imagine the knock offs in magic tricks. They will not get in trouble because the original was not patented because of the cost of money. Is something being done about this to keep it from being a knock off? Picture how many "Torn and Restored Newspapers" were supplied after the first one.
[/quote]

I'm not certain what, if any legal action would be taken. You'd want to discuss that with Lee and Bill.

Ventriloquism is something anyone can do if they care enough to practice. If you take the time to get good, you develop an affection for the art, so why steal from it? Stealing is the habit of those who don't wish to work. If you don't work at ventriloquism - you can't keep your lips still enough to perform TOM anyway!
Tom
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Aug 23, 2009 08:51AM)
It is quite an investment...

Unlike buying a figure/puppet, which you can resell, the TOM is licensed to the buyer only and the license is not transferable. So if you buy TOM and you like it...that's good investment and will most probably pay for itself. But if by any chance you don't like it, then you lost a lot of money. :)

This will be licensed to the first 50 vents only...glad to know I'm one of those 50. :)

Can't wait to get mine...

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Aug 23, 2009 10:04AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-23 09:51, Wanlu wrote:
So if you buy TOM and you like it...that's good investment and will most probably pay for itself. But if by any chance you don't like it, then you lost a lot of money. :) [/quote]

Wanlu,
If you like the routine of TOM, then how can you not like it? Make the decision based on the effect - is it right for your show? If so, buy it - if not, don't. You are purchasing the right to do the routine, not just the "secret". If you only want to know the "secret", save your money - it isn't for you!

I've only used TOM once and I am not sure when or if I will do it again. I don't look at it as losing money. I own the rights to do it if I want, AND I know my purchase helps out Bill!
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Aug 23, 2009 02:56PM)
Tom is right. You are buying the right to do it. And you are buying the benefit of Bill's decades of doing the routine. The secret is a head slapper of the "why-didn't-I-think-of-that?" variety. But we didn't; Bill did. If you like the effect, the method is irrelevant. And done correctly is unfathomable to your audiences.

So, Wanlu, I hope you will not learn the secret and put the routine away. I hope you perform it and get the pleasure that it has given many of us.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Aug 23, 2009 09:09PM)
The routine is a killer... no doubt about it.

What I mean by "not liking it" refers to the method. I don't know how its done yet...so now that Im about to find out, Im hoping it wont be too difficult to do otherwise I wont like doing it. :) I hate giving myself something hard to do. If Im not comfortable doing it, I wont do it. If the headworn mic will be a problem then I wont do the routine. But the fact that I bought it simply means I HOPEFUL ITS SOMETHING I CAN HANDLE. :) Just like what I said, I don't think TOM will be as effective in kidshows as compared to adult shows, so I don't really see myself using TOM often. Maybe if I get adult gigs which I rarely do.

Just knowing how its done makes me happy already. At least Im one of the 50 who know the secret and one of the 50 who are licensed to do it. Maybe in the future more people (more than 50) would know the secret...but still only 50 are licensed and Im one of them. :)

Thanks guys! :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: leecornell (Aug 24, 2009 10:50AM)
Wow. Thanks for the great thread about Bill's tape over the mouth trick. As the producer of Bill's license package and his good friend, let me weigh in a bit.

Bill developed his first version of this trick and performed it for the first time in 1959. Bill is going to be 78 in November. I doubt if there is anyone out there who started doing this before Bill.

I personally never even saw anyone do a tape bit of any type except Bill for years and I've been involved in magic and ventriloquism for over 40 years. (I know what you're thinking...he looks too young, handsome and chisled to have been around the business for that long)...

So, there are very, very few performers of any tape bit, regardless of the method they may use.

There is no one that I am aware of that uses Bill's technique of placing several layers of tape over the mouth - except for those who have purchased Bill's version.

Bill spent a long time perfecting this routine.

Back in the 1950's and the 1960's, lots of vents did "tricks" with their dummies. Bill was no different. When he came up with the idea to put tape over his mouth, he first did the routine using a single wide piece of masking tape. Then he tried duct tape. Then he tried doing a bit where the dummy talked while Bill smoked a cigarette, drank a glass of water and then finished with the single piece of tape.

It got an OK response, but he knew something was missing as he wasn't "killing" with the routine.

It wasn't until he came up with the idea of changing this from a quick vent "trick" into a full routine by using layers of tape and having a volunteer come on stage that would assist, interact with the puppet and Bill, and become part of the routine that he knew he had found the missing piece.

The crowds really were amazed by the bit and it was/is very funny to watch as it plays out. Every time I have seen Bill do this routine, he has received a standing ovation.

That being said, this routine only works if you put in the effort to learn the routine (or tweak it a bit to make it more your own) and you need to be a good perfomer and decent vent. If you have a bad act and/or bad technique, this isn't going to make you a star. The trick itself is not difficult to learn.

We have the price where it is because we only want professional entertainers to perform it. And, the value of the trick is not just in the secret, it's also in Bill's routine.

He has performed this thousands of times over 50 years and has polished this routine to get maximun impact. That's what you're paying for.

I honestly feel it is worth more than the $500 asking price. And, I think most, if not all, of the people who have invested in a license feel the same way.

Is there any way to police someone who might figure it out and then doing Bill's routine? Of course not. However, I have never heard of anyone figuring out how Bill's method works.

But, as in everything, there are crooks who rip people off all of the time in magic, vent or any business for that matter. We just always hope those are the exceptions and not the rule.

Will there be "knock-off" licenses being offered? I really doubt it. This is a small niche trick and I just don't see that happening.

Once all 50 licenses are gone, that will be it. That's a number Bill and I agreed on and I intend to stick to that.

I'm not going to say "Hurry! Get yours now before they run out!" I am in no hurry to sell them all. I'm more concerned about the "right" people getting a license than I am about trying to sell them all out quickly just to get your money.

How many licenses are left? I'll be right up front and tell you - I have sold 18 to date (it's been available for a little over a year), which leaves 32. Will I run out tomorrow, next week, next month, next year? I doubt it. But, they will sell out someday and there will be no more issued after that happens.

So, right now, there are only 18 people IN THE WORLD who have Bill's secret and routine. That's a pretty dang small amount of people. In contrast, for example, how many people do the zig-zag illusion or linking rings?

There is a way, way greater chance of someone seeing some of those staples in magic at a show than in seeing the Tape over the Mouth routine.

It is a great trick and routine, but if $500 seems like too much, the trick is not for you.

It is not implied in this thread, but in other situations I'll hear people say about a product "It's just a DVD and a book. Probably only cost them $5 to package "x". $200, $300 (or whatever) is a rip-off."

If that's what you think in regard to this trick, don't purchase it. Please.

I plan on posting a video clip of Bill's performance on the web page soon. If you haven't seen the bit, watch it. If you like what you see and like how the audience responds and would like that same kind of routine for your show, that's all that matters.

The trick blows people away. Period. That's the value of Bill's Tape over the Mouth trick.

Thanks.

Best,

Lee

http://www.ventriloquism101.com
Message: Posted by: Neale Bacon (Aug 24, 2009 11:22AM)
Just for the record...I have seen the bit and consider it amazing. My full time career is really just getting rolling again and I don't seem to be able to come up with the money RIGHT NOW.

I consider it a good price and want to get it some day.

I hope my post wasn't misunderstood as me saying it was too much money. Just for me RIGHT NOW.

Hope that clears up my previous post.
Message: Posted by: leecornell (Aug 24, 2009 03:05PM)
Fellow magi and vents,

Just a couple of quick comments.

Tom is right. This does help Bill. He is retired now and the extra he makes from the occassional sale of his TOM routine really is a big help to him and he is very thankful to the pros who have invested in a license.

Second, I just wanted everyone to know that I have had nothing to do with all of the really great and positive comments about the routine. It's been a while since I've visited the forum and was pleasantly surprised to see all of the fabulous reviews.

It was a labor of love to put this together with Bill (well...plus I got to learn the secret since I shot the DVD and interviewed Bill...8-).

Bill wanted to keep his legacy going by making this available to a few individuals. And seeing the positive messsages makes it all worth while, knowing that we've put out a quality product that does what it says it will do. Thanks.

Lee
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (Aug 24, 2009 03:08PM)
Thank you Lee! You not only help out Bill, but the entire vent community by making this and other great products available through ventriloquism101.

BTW - I absolutely LOVED the Sammy King DVD. Since I wasn't able to make Venthaven this year - that was a real treat!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 24, 2009 11:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-24 11:50, leecornell wrote:
Wow. Thanks for the great thread about Bill's tape over the mouth trick. As the producer of Bill's license package and his good friend, let me weigh in a bit.

Bill developed his first version of this trick and performed it for the first time in 1959. Bill is going to be 78 in November. I doubt if there is anyone out there who started doing this before Bill.

I personally never even saw anyone do a tape bit of any type except Bill for years and I've been involved in magic and ventriloquism for over 40 years. (I know what you're thinking...he looks too young, handsome and chisled to have been around the business for that long)...

So, there are very, very few performers of any tape bit, regardless of the method they may use.

There is no one that I am aware of that uses Bill's technique of placing several layers of tape over the mouth - except for those who have purchased Bill's version.

Bill spent a long time perfecting this routine.

Back in the 1950's and the 1960's, lots of vents did "tricks" with their dummies. Bill was no different. When he came up with the idea to put tape over his mouth, he first did the routine using a single wide piece of masking tape. Then he tried duct tape. Then he tried doing a bit where the dummy talked while Bill smoked a cigarette, drank a glass of water and then finished with the single piece of tape.

It got an OK response, but he knew something was missing as he wasn't "killing" with the routine.

It wasn't until he came up with the idea of changing this from a quick vent "trick" into a full routine by using layers of tape and having a volunteer come on stage that would assist, interact with the puppet and Bill, and become part of the routine that he knew he had found the missing piece.

The crowds really were amazed by the bit and it was/is very funny to watch as it plays out. Every time I have seen Bill do this routine, he has received a standing ovation.

That being said, this routine only works if you put in the effort to learn the routine (or tweak it a bit to make it more your own) and you need to be a good perfomer and decent vent. If you have a bad act and/or bad technique, this isn't going to make you a star. The trick itself is not difficult to learn.

We have the price where it is because we only want professional entertainers to perform it. And, the value of the trick is not just in the secret, it's also in Bill's routine.

He has performed this thousands of times over 50 years and has polished this routine to get maximun impact. That's what you're paying for.

I honestly feel it is worth more than the $500 asking price. And, I think most, if not all, of the people who have invested in a license feel the same way.

Is there any way to police someone who might figure it out and then doing Bill's routine? Of course not. However, I have never heard of anyone figuring out how Bill's method works.

But, as in everything, there are crooks who rip people off all of the time in magic, vent or any business for that matter. We just always hope those are the exceptions and not the rule.

Will there be "knock-off" licenses being offered? I really doubt it. This is a small niche trick and I just don't see that happening.

Once all 50 licenses are gone, that will be it. That's a number Bill and I agreed on and I intend to stick to that.

I'm not going to say "Hurry! Get yours now before they run out!" I am in no hurry to sell them all. I'm more concerned about the "right" people getting a license than I am about trying to sell them all out quickly just to get your money.

How many licenses are left? I'll be right up front and tell you - I have sold 18 to date (it's been available for a little over a year), which leaves 32. Will I run out tomorrow, next week, next month, next year? I doubt it. But, they will sell out someday and there will be no more issued after that happens.

So, right now, there are only 18 people IN THE WORLD who have Bill's secret and routine. That's a pretty dang small amount of people. In contrast, for example, how many people do the zig-zag illusion or linking rings?

There is a way, way greater chance of someone seeing some of those staples in magic at a show than in seeing the Tape over the Mouth routine.

It is a great trick and routine, but if $500 seems like too much, the trick is not for you.

It is not implied in this thread, but in other situations I'll hear people say about a product "It's just a DVD and a book. Probably only cost them $5 to package "x". $200, $300 (or whatever) is a rip-off."

If that's what you think in regard to this trick, don't purchase it. Please.

I plan on posting a video clip of Bill's performance on the web page soon. If you haven't seen the bit, watch it. If you like what you see and like how the audience responds and would like that same kind of routine for your show, that's all that matters.

The trick blows people away. Period. That's the value of Bill's Tape over the Mouth trick.

Thanks.

Best,

Lee

http://www.ventriloquism101.com
[/quote]
Any questions? ;)
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 06:57AM)
Got mine this morning...

I'm not sure if I did well but check out how I did during practice...I feel like I misunderstood something and did something wrong. Pardon the language barrier...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nXNMWDqcW0
Message: Posted by: Daveandrews (Sep 14, 2009 09:19AM)
Erm, Wanlu, I don't think you've got the hang of it just yet - close, but not quite close enough. I would try reading the instructions again :)
Don't worry, you will get there, I'm sure.

Best wishes,

Dave
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 09:31AM)
Thanks Dave :) Will do...
Message: Posted by: Servante (Sep 14, 2009 10:02AM)
There's something...not quite right about it, Wanlu.
Can't put my finger on it, exactly, but...

Well, keep practicing!
Message: Posted by: Servante (Sep 14, 2009 10:03AM)
Maybe it's the tape. Maybe you need to...

No. That's not it.
Message: Posted by: Daveandrews (Sep 14, 2009 12:25PM)
Sevante - you may be on to something with the tape. Will give it some thought, but I don't have the benefit of the instructions :(

Dave
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Sep 14, 2009 02:30PM)
You guys are hyper-critical. It looked fine to me.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 08:38PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-14 11:02, Servante wrote:
There's something...not quite right about it, Wanlu.
Can't put my finger on it, exactly, but...

Well, keep practicing!
[/quote]

Thanks Servante...but I think it went pretty well. :)
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 08:39PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-14 13:25, Daveandrews wrote:
Sevante - you may be on to something with the tape. Will give it some thought, but I don't have the benefit of the instructions :(

Dave
[/quote]

I don't think its the tape... but somehow I feel that there is something wrong. :)
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 08:40PM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-14 15:30, Bob Baker wrote:
You guys are hyper-critical. It looked fine to me.

Bob
[/quote]

That's what I'm talking about...if Bob says it looked fine then it is.

Thanks Bob! Yodaman! :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 08:48PM)
I hope this will not appear like it's a mockery of TOM....for the record I can say that it's a great routine and probably the best investment on something that can improve a vent's act.

For me, it's worth every centavo I spent...and the license/certificate that is included is a treasure. It's the closest thing to being in the conVention and actually talk with Uncle Bill. Somehow, I feel like I have this instant connection with Mr DeMar...

This is actually an honor and a privilege for me to be one of the licensed TOMers in the international vent community. :)

The video I made is just a spoof on my vent mentor Ony Carcamo thus the video is in our native language. :)

Thanks :)

Wanlu
Message: Posted by: Daveandrews (Sep 14, 2009 08:52PM)
You worry too much, Wanlu - we do appreciate what it's all about really.

Although, I still think it needs some work :)

dave
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 14, 2009 08:54PM)
Thanks Dave :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Sep 15, 2009 11:26AM)
A spoof? Shoot! Maybe I've been doing it wrong, too. No wonder audiences don't seem all that impressed.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 15, 2009 11:58AM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-15 12:26, Bob Baker wrote:
... No wonder audiences don't seem all that impressed.

Bob
[/quote]

Not impressed!? Impossible!!! A dummy has strips of tape on his mouth and still he can talk...and it does not impress your audience? Wow...maybe you can try making the dummy drink a glass of water...or smoke. :)
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 27, 2009 09:59PM)
I think TOM will have some problems with a headset mic...unless you practice and experiment on it real hard :)
Message: Posted by: Bob Baker (Sep 28, 2009 08:13AM)
In my two shows this weekend I tried TOM once with a Countryman headset mic and once with a lavaliere.
It was definitely better with the lavaliere.

Bob
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 28, 2009 11:14AM)
It might work with a headset mic...but with a lot of work. I have been trying to experiment on it but no luck so far... :)

It does not matter much to me...long story :)
Message: Posted by: JimbosMagic (Sep 29, 2009 12:45PM)
Wanlu
I just seen you video of TOM I am not sure but I think you had the instuctions upside down. lol.
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Sep 30, 2009 08:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-09-29 13:45, JimbosMagic wrote:
Wanlu
I just seen you video of TOM I am not sure but I think you had the instuctions upside down. lol.
[/quote]

LOL :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: MT (May 19, 2011 03:27PM)
Hi Everyone,

Is this Tape over the mouth routine still available or are all 50 gone? For those of you who have it, can I get an idea of how much work is involved before someone can do it relatively well?

Any other opinions of this effect? I suppose there is only one tape over the mouth effect, right? Or are there different versions out there?

This is the first time I've heard of this. Anyone got a youtube clip of it?
Message: Posted by: tacrowl (May 19, 2011 07:03PM)
Ony did a great version of it on Youtube. Not sure if it is still there.

I purchased the effect excited by the possibilities, then decided it didn't fit my show. I believe the license said it could not be resold. Not that I would, I may decide to re-write and use it some day.

As for other versions - yeah, there are several vents who do a piece of tape over their mouth - Jay Johnson being one of them. Bill's is unique in the fact it uses multiple strips and seals the mouth. I'm not sure it is still available, you'd need to check with Lee Cornell.

Tom
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (May 19, 2011 11:14PM)
I bought one but can't use it due to a personal arrangement I have with fellow vent Ony...

Ask Lee if I can resell it to you and I'll give you a reasonable price. If I sell it to you, I will revoke my right to perform it.

Perhaps you can also ask Ony to write to Lee :)
Message: Posted by: Ony Carcamo (May 19, 2011 11:25PM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-19 16:27, MT wrote:
Anyone got a youtube clip of it?
[/quote]

Hi,

Here just a part of my TOM routine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQWVqQt5-Ys
Message: Posted by: olivertwist (May 20, 2011 06:48PM)
Thank you, Ony. That was very good!
Message: Posted by: MT (May 20, 2011 07:22PM)
Wanlu, I messaged Lee and asked Ony. So let's see if it works out.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Jun 9, 2011 09:49PM)
Wanlu;

Is it possible to transfer the license and is the routine still available?

Buzz
Message: Posted by: Wanlu (Jun 10, 2011 12:06AM)
The license is non transferable but since my case is a matter of friendship bwtween two friends, Lee might just reconsider :)

I already have a deal with MT :)
Message: Posted by: Servante (Jun 10, 2011 08:53AM)
License? Oh. Does this mean I should take the tape off all my figures' mouths? It's a great act, really; I put tape over my own mouth and we do twenty minutes of incoherent mumbling. Always brings the audience to its feet.
And out the door.

(That's okay. I'm working on a version with a hammer and nails. :) )

-Philip
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Jun 10, 2011 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-10 09:53, Servante wrote:
License? Oh. Does this mean I should take the tape off all my figures' mouths? It's a great act, really; I put tape over my own mouth and we do twenty minutes of incoherent mumbling. Always brings the audience to its feet.
And out the door.

(That's okay. I'm working on a version with a hammer and nails. :) )

-Philip
[/quote]

Philip;

Youre in luck all my performances with Dan is incoherent; I am licensing my routine that showcases a twenty minute performance of incoherent mumbling, and I am offering it for $300.00 thats a $200.00 savings over the Bill Del Mar routine; so since your using it, please send the funds to my PayPal account

I am also licensing the version with a hammer and nails
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Jun 10, 2011 12:31PM)
[quote]
On 2011-06-10 01:06, Wanlu wrote:
The license is non transferable but since my case is a matter of friendship bwtween two friends, Lee might just reconsider :)

I already have a deal with MT :)
[/quote]

Wanlu;

I am glad that MT will be getting it, hopefully it will be approved and go through