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Topic: My first time street busking
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 3, 2008 11:56PM)
Sunday, 8-30-08 is my first time street busking. One of the summer weekly festivals were happening Downtown Detroit at Hart Plaza. I started my first act about 5:45pm. A lot of vendors had canopies set up in different areas.

I performed the Sponge Bunnies, 8 Chinese Linking Rings, "The Thing" and Miser's Dream. I left out the Chair Suspension because I do not have the carrying case made for it yet. It took me 10 minutes to perform. I gave my camera to a lady to take pictures of me. I was nervous of three things, my first time street busking, the lady possibly running away with my camera and a cop approaching me.

Here are 50 of the pictures the lady shot with me performing: [url=http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/Dynamikex/Street%20Busking/]dynamike[/url]

Photo #102.jpg you will noticed a girl in the front with a pink outfit. Standing behind her is her father. (He gave me $10 after my act). Look slightly right of her father. You will notice a police officer. He had a partner with him also. They stayed until the #108.jpg picture was taken as I was performing my Linking Ring rountine.

Photo #083jpg and #121jpg you will notice a man in a white shirt with a black hat. He was being a heckler in the show a few times. I was asking him nicely to go away because I did not want to show an attitude.

I sold a few balloons after the magic act.

I moved to a different area about 30 feet away and performed again. I had more of a crowd. I felt more relaxed. I saw a sergeant as I doing my collection. He did not say anything to me. I moved to a new area about 50 feet away. I was announcing I was about to start. The sergeant spoke to me wanting to see my papers to perform. Since I had nothing to show him he told me to walk away.
Message: Posted by: manal (Aug 4, 2008 12:22AM)
Congratulations.It seems you did very well.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 01:25AM)
Thanks Manal.
Message: Posted by: Leeman (Aug 4, 2008 02:12AM)
Sounds like you had some fun and made some cash. Hopefully you can find another place that doesn't require permits and keep it up.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 4, 2008 05:49AM)
Mike, I mean no disrespect when I say this so don't take it the wrong way - I'm just being honest with you. That suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage, but on the street you look like a weirdo. Dress down.

I'm not going to pat you on the back, you've now ruined your pitch - you can't go back. Hopefully, you will learn something from the experience - you over stayed your welcome. A new pitch must always be broken in gently. I spoke about this a long long time ago somewhere on here.

When you show up dressed funny lugging tables and what not, people don't know how to react to you - you freak them out. First time out, you should work from your pockets and build small shows. Don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money. Don't rinse and repeat, do a show and go home. The cops would have smiled and after a few times out they would have been used to you and not been freaked out. Then they start to think to themselves "he's really getting a lot better" - that's what you want them to think, because then they are routing for you.

If you have the guts, you might be able to salvage the pitch in the same way - if the cops come to you, explain you weren't trying to do a show you were just showing someone a magic trick and a crowd formed. I wouldn't go back unless I talked to someone in the City and could drop a name on them (ie: City Clerk).



On the positive side, I think its great that you went out there and did it - that takes a lot of guts and you should be proud. I'm sure you learned a lot in the process. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 07:12AM)
Yes, I did have a fun time time Leeman. I enjoyed being out there.

***************************************
Thanks for the comments Joe. But I rather me myself. I am proud of who I am. I want to keep it that way. I like to see the smiles on the audience faces during my performances. The character plays a strong role.

I dress the way I do everywhere I go. At times people ask me if I am an entertainer. I never got a negative reaction from the way I dress.

Even after my performances people of all cultures walk up to me and request my business card from the entertainment they saw me perform.

On my side of town there is a lot of hip hop. If it hurts you to see me as a hip hop magician...too bad.
Message: Posted by: FunTimeAl (Aug 4, 2008 07:32AM)
Dynamike,

Those crowds looked great! Nice edge. They looked entertained too! I'd say that's a dream 1st day out...a $10 bill in the hat and everything. Wow!

Good job man.

Give some thought about your order of effects in your routine now. I'm not saying they NEED to change order. I wasn't there. I don't have a clue.

However, after working a routine (even one day) I find it helpful to go back and think about the high and low energy points of the show.

It's kinda like a musical score.

You don't want your most energizing/vibrant piece in the middle. You want to knock their socks off at the end...well, that's my take on it...any/every rule is made to be broken.

So, really all I'm saying is think about your incremental routine and decide if you like the order or if it might benefit to reshuffle.

Adding/Subtracting effects & bits is a whole 'nother can of worms...a headache I won't presume to know anything about.

I HAVE changed the order of my effects twice before with HUGE energy differences (and hat sizes) for the same basic show. That's why I offer the thought.

Anywho. Good job man!

Chad
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 07:46AM)
Thanks Chad. I understand. I am planning to play around with the order of my rountine. I will experiment with the order by approaching whatever crowd I can, even if it is a child's party, family reunion, company picnic, etc. Next, I will try whatever one that fits me the most on the streets. Thanks again Chad.
Message: Posted by: gallagher (Aug 4, 2008 01:35PM)
Hey Mike , I liked the Photos, thanks for sharing. Man, not only have you've got your show together, you've got a photo-team as well!! Great! Hey, did Talksalot teach you how to get that together!?! Mannnn.

Mike, a few different points of view: `A class act gets a class take.' Don't dress down. You looked great. You looked `special'. That's important.

I play `big'. Just setting-up builds an audience. And I open`big'. One of my best, flashiest, impressive numbers. I want to plant the idea, "Let's stay. This IS something!" Chad is also right on, though, you've got to `finish' them with a satified feeling. The ending IS important,... but if no one is there? I open big.

,hey, I hope you get that `Chair Suspension' out there as well. It'd be great on the streets. Just it standing there, waiting to be used, will draw curiosity. OK, it's a pain to transport,... but work it out.

With the cops, it ain't often the `men in blue' will have the nerve to stop you dead; when you've got a BIG audience! (another reason to open `big'). If they `have' to stop you, they'll usually let you finish your show. (a great gag, after all has been agreed on, is walkng them off with a plastic squirt gun. Walking behind them, they can't see what's going on,... but the audience cracks up.)

hey, keep on. And thanks for sharing.
gallagher
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Aug 4, 2008 01:39PM)
I'm not really a busker or anything but I never much understood the dress down thing. wouldn't it be better to dress for your character/personality?

I would think you would want to strive to be a attractive .... attraction; not just a spectacle.

it's a view point from the outside looking in of course.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 02:07PM)
Gallagher and Joshua, I want to thank both of you very much. I appreciate your comments. If a person is jealous of the way I dress, I won't let it hurt me. :lol: :lol: :lol:


[quote]
On 2008-08-04 14:35, gallagher wrote:
Hey Mike , I liked the Photos, thanks for sharing. Man, not only have you've got your show together, you've got a photo-team as well!! Great! Hey, did Talksalot teach you how to get that together!?! Mannnn. [/quote]

It was not just Talksalot. It was also the rest of you members who have been giving me lots of support with your splendid ideas. We need more people like you guys in this world.

[quote] Mike, a few different points of view: `A class act gets a class take.' Don't dress down. You looked great. You looked `special'. That's important.
[/quote]
Thank you very much. I bet the jealous and prejudice ones would look at it differently. :smoke:

[quote] I play `big'. Just setting-up builds an audience. And I open`big'. One of my best, flashiest, impressive numbers. I want to plant the idea, "Let's stay. This IS something!" Chad is also right on, though, you've got to `finish' them with a satified feeling. The ending IS important,... but if no one is there? I open big. [/quote]
I learned something today. Keep the ideas coming.

[quote] ,hey, I hope you get that `Chair Suspension' out there as well. It'd be great on the streets. Just it standing there, waiting to be used, will draw curiosity. OK, it's a pain to transport,... but work it out.
[/quote]
Pretty soon I am going to be working on making a custom carrying case for it. It will be easy to carry by shoulder or hand.

[quote] With the cops, it ain't often the `men in blue' will have the nerve to stop you dead; when you've got a BIG audience! (another reason to open `big'). If they `have' to stop you, they'll usually let you finish your show. (a great gag, after all has been agreed on, is walkng them off with a plastic squirt gun. Walking behind them, they can't see what's going on,... but the audience cracks up.)
[/quote]
I gotcha. I will be more careful also to where I set up.

[quote]hey, keep on. And thanks for sharing.
gallagher [/quote]
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Aug 4, 2008 02:46PM)
The only thing I want to say is your comments about the police. You seem to imply that you kept them at bay with your amazing magic while the simple fact is if you are not blocking anything and if no problems have existed before the police are not going to bother you. The fact they didn't bounce you isn't impressive, they were just doing their job.

In this case you picked a good spot where a crowd already existed.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 4, 2008 02:57PM)
He didn't hold them at bay with his impressive magic, he got kicked off the pitch!

[quote]
I was announcing I was about to start. The sergeant spoke to me wanting to see my papers to perform. Since I had nothing to show him he told me to walk away.
[/quote]
That's my point, he looked like he didn't belong there - if he looked like everyone else and wasn't lugging a suitcase table all over the place, he would probably still be there.

Street performers aren't to look like professional stars - Jimmy wears a suit that looks like it came from the salvation army. Dark subdued colors, not flamboyant.

And he is missing the most important part of any street performer attire: A HAT! How exactly did you expect to pass a hat that you weren't wearing? Do you know some trick to make a hat appear out of nowhere or something? The hat is what makes you stand out on the street, not a fancy suit.

You could get away with keeping the suit if your into the Mac King look ... but diffidently lose the shoes and get a hat.


-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 03:12PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 00:56, Dynamike wrote:

Photo #102.jpg you will noticed a girl in the front with a pink outfit. Standing behind her is her father. (He gave me $10 after my act). Look slightly right of her father. You will notice a police officer. He had a partner with him also. They stayed until the #108.jpg picture was taken as I was performing my Linking Ring rountine. [/quote]
Two police officers were watching me perform for couple of minutes. They did not say anything and walked away. At that moment no money was mentioned.


[quote]
I moved to a different area about 30 feet away and performed again. I had more of a crowd. I felt more relaxed. I saw a sergeant as I doing my collection. He did not say anything to me. I moved to a new area about 50 feet away. I was announcing I was about to start. The sergeant spoke to me wanting to see my papers to perform. Since I had nothing to show him he told me to walk away.
[/quote]
After I was collecting tips for my second performance I saw a sergeant. He did not stop me from collecting. I walked away to a different spot. I was about to start a third act. That same sergeant who saw me collect now knew what it was all about. That is when he requested papers from me.
Message: Posted by: manal (Aug 4, 2008 03:21PM)
Dress Down? Like the Naked Cowboy?
I like your suit, it stands out and lets everyone know you are a performer. I have seen people walk right by a busker not realizing he was a busker. He just looked like an attention seeking older teenager.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 03:26PM)
Thank you Manal. We need more members with wisdom like yours. Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Aug 4, 2008 04:26PM)
I was in ther military when Detroit died around 1980, give or take a year. We had loads of people, at least those that could clear the criminal check, join up and I can assure you, the guys from Detroit all wore light blue suits, red suits, Christmas green suits, bad hats....it is a detroit thing. I'm sure that most the people who say Dynamike thought "Goodness, he is a fine looking lad in that suit, I had one thirty years ago and...hey....it IS my old suit!"
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (Aug 4, 2008 04:35PM)
I think the suit looks great. It is much better than dressing like a Hobo like a lot of the buskers I see. No offense to them if that is their style, but this man looks good in that suit!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 4, 2008 04:56PM)
Thanks for the nice comment Magikrn.
Message: Posted by: chappelly (Aug 4, 2008 11:07PM)
The photos look great.It's good to be distinctive and stand out from the crowd.
I think one of your best tricks would have been getting that woman to take all the photos.Also if you did Chris Capehart's Misers Dream,this would have gone over very well.Best with your future performances.

Chappelly
Message: Posted by: Brad Lancaster (Aug 5, 2008 01:06AM)
Dynamike,
As someone who has earned his money solely through busking for almost three straight years in the early 80's. I'm proud of you and I'm also impressed with your spirit.

For me busking was done initially out of necessity when I arrived in New York without job prospects and I primarily worked from my pockets.

Also don't freak out about being moved by the police it's part of the job.

If you're going to be at the Abbott's Get-Together this week let's hang out. I'll share some of my experiences.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 5, 2008 03:27AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 00:07, chappelly wrote:
The photos look great.It's good to be distinctive and stand out from the crowd.
I think one of your best tricks would have been getting that woman to take all the photos.Also if you did Chris Capehart's Misers Dream,this would have gone over very well.Best with your future performances.

Chappelly
[/quote]
I like the way she took the photos too. I got a strong feeling she was already a photographer. I regret I did not tip her for taking them for me.

Yes, it was Chris Capehart's Miser's Dream routine. It helped me generate a lot of laughter. That is why I kept it last.


[quote]
On 2008-08-05 02:06, Brad Lancaster wrote:
Dynamike,
As someone who has earned his money solely through busking for almost three straight years in the early 80's. I'm proud of you and I'm also impressed with your spirit. [/quote]
Wow, three years, I'm sure it was tough. Thanks.

[quote] For me busking was done initially out of necessity when I arrived in New York without job prospects and I primarily worked from my pockets. [/quote]
I might start the same area. If not, it will be in Chicago or LA. I am planning Street Busking as my "safety net" while I put my marketing together to do paid shows.

[quote] Also don't freak out about being moved by the police it's part of the job. [/quote]
I understand. I will go with the flow.

[quote] If you're going to be at the Abbott's Get-Together this week let's hang out. I'll share some of my experiences.
[/quote]
Sorry, I am already booked for this weekend. Because of the economy, I'm taking whatever I can. Last weekend was the first weekend I had no shows to do. I will try and squeeze in at The Motor City Close-Up convention this year.
Message: Posted by: Bill Nuvo (Aug 5, 2008 08:10AM)
Hey Mike, for comparison I think you should show everyone how the Mayor of Detroit dresses! LOL

I think you look great by the way.
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Aug 5, 2008 08:26AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:10, Bill Nuvo wrote:
Hey Mike, for comparison I think you should show everyone how the Mayor of Detroit dresses! LOL

I think you look great by the way.
[/quote]

You look great in those photos, but I'd go all out. Wear the orange suit, man.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 5, 2008 10:17AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:10, Bill Nuvo wrote:
Hey Mike, for comparison I think you should show everyone how the Mayor of Detroit dresses! LOL

I think you look great by the way.
[/quote]
But I am not wearing that diamond earring he use to wear. Montel Williams had two of them.

[quote]
On 2008-08-05 09:26, Mark Raven wrote:
You look great in those photos, but I'd go all out. Wear the orange suit, man.

Mark
[/quote]
Yea, I can see how those colors will attract attention. I got several other colors to. The hard part about them is paying the cleaner's bill.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 8, 2008 12:43AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 14:39, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I'm not really a busker or anything but I never much understood the dress down thing. wouldn't it be better to dress for your character/personality?
[/quote]

It depends on where you are busking, at Barefoot Landing I wear a flamboyant tails coat ... but I wouldn't dare wear that busking downtown Myrtle Beach. Why?

Because it attracts too much attention - the cops spotted Mike before he ever reached his pitch. He seems to think they walked by to give him a nod of approval, when in reality they were moving in to get a closer look - much like sharks that circle their prey before moving in for the kill. You can bet money they were already on their radio before he ever spotted them, and they were just waiting for him to give them a reason to move him along - which is exactly what he did.



[quote]
On 2008-08-04 16:21, manal wrote:
Dress Down? Like the Naked Cowboy?
[/quote]

The Naked Cowboy works Times Square, where street performing is more acceptable. When he took his act to a strange town (San Fransisco to be exact), he got himself arrested. If Mike was in an area where busking was encouraged, he could wear whatever he wanted and nobody would care.

What Mike did is an example of what NOT to do when breaking in a new pitch. You dress like everyone else, you do a short show, you don't hat your crowd. The first time you go out, the cops will think you are a problem - you need to show them you are not. The second time you go out, they will leave you alone. The third time, they will say "don't worry about him, he sucks". Eventually, it gets to where you "belong" there, just like the Naked Cowboy belongs in Times Square.

Eventually, they will come up and talk to you and you can get them to like you. At that point, when they see someone putting money in your hat they will say "hey, he's getting pretty good - they are even giving him money now". You will have turned the tables, and now they are rooting for you.



I think Mike needs to reevaluate what his goals are - if he wants to wear flashy suits and draw lots of attention with fat hats, he will end up getting arrested. However, if he wants to use pure skill to draw small crowds with short simple shows for smaller hats, he could get away with busking in Detroit.

I personally wouldn't bother, its a waste of time ... more profitable to find private property and offer your services. But he doesn't seem to like my advice so whatever.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: manal (Aug 8, 2008 12:50AM)
I was trying to be funny when I mentioned The Naked Cowboy.
Your above post makes a lot of sense Joe Joe. Thanks for the more indepth explanation.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 8, 2008 12:59AM)
I know you were, I was just using it as a good example to explain the whole "dress down" thing. Your welcome. :)

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Aug 8, 2008 03:34AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 14:35, gallagher wrote:
With the cops, it ain't often the `men in blue' will have the nerve to stop you dead; when you've got a BIG audience! (another reason to open `big'). If they `have' to stop you, they'll usually let you finish your show. (a great gag, after all has been agreed on, is walkng them off with a plastic squirt gun. Walking behind them, they can't see what's going on,... but the audience cracks up.)
[/quote]

I can't count on one hand alone how many times I've seen the cops break up a big show, mid act. If you don't manage your crowd, the "men in blue" will do it for you. They've got a gun and a badge of authority... and they don't fear us at all.

The squirt gun gag idea is [i]Bad[/i], just... Bad -these aren't clown cops, you know. They'll turn right around and arrest you for that kind of nonsense.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 8, 2008 07:38AM)
Oh yeah. We had a clown on stilts at one festival here who was squirting the audience with one of those "power squirters." Managed to hit a cop INSIDE his patrol car. Said police officer had words with the clown which ended with the clown being arrested and charged with assault on a police officer!

NEVER a good idea!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 8, 2008 04:16PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 16:21, manal wrote:
I like your suit, it stands out and lets everyone know you are a performer.
[/quote]
I want to thank you again Manal. Most of the members on this thread are argeeing with you. If you notice on the first post some officers were watching me. They are noticed on a few of the photos. Neither of the two officers stopped me. They noticed how I was entertaining the audience. A sergeant did stop me from starting my thrid performance. Because The city ordiance reads the following for Detroit for "Sidewalk Entertainment":
Sec. 5-1-5. Sidewalk entertainers permitted; conditions.
(a) Except for Residentially Zoned Districts of the City (R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, and R6) and Residential Planned Development (PD) Districts, sidewalk entertainers shall be allowed to perform on outdoor public areas or walkways live entertainment which consists of dance, drama, juggling, mime, musical performances, singing, or other such entertainment that is associated with the performing arts.
(b) In accordance with this section, sidewalk entertainers are permitted to perform only upon the following conditions:
(1) Such performance shall not be allowed on city property that is under the jurisdiction of the recreation department, except for recreation department property that is located in the Downtown Business District;
(2) Such performances shall not take place during any carnival, festival, parade, or other event that either is scheduled by any city department or is permitted by the city council;
(3) During such performances, sidewalk entertainers are prohibited from using any device that increases volume including, but not limited to, an amplifier, a horn and a microphone, or from using any passive instrument of entertainment, such as a cassette player, a compact disc player or a radio;
(4) Such performance shall not involve the sale of any goods or services;
(5) During such performances, sidewalk entertainers shall not solicit donations, but may accept unsolicited contributions; and
(6) Such performances shall not interfere with vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
(c) When in the judgment of the police department such performance is obstructing vehicular or pedestrian traffic, or is interfering with crowd control or public safety, and upon the request of the police department, such entertainer shall move his, or her, performance.
(d) Sidewalk entertainers who desire to perform shall do so at their own risk, and the city shall not be responsible for any damage which may be incurred to their personal property during the performance.
(Ord. No. 11-04, § 1, 3-24-04)

Street busking is not allowed in Detroit. Sidewalk Entertainment is not allowed in a festival of Detroit. There was no one else Street Busking. If someone else was Street Busking, the sergeant would have stopped them too, no matter what type of clothes the person was wearing. If I would have had the type of papers the sergeant asked me for, everything would have been approved.

I have confidence of performing in any area. The first important thing is feeling comfortable by being yourself. If I wear my same type of clothes I bet it will attract good attention, even though some people might not like the style. The character comes next. Be positive. If I wore a different type of clothing, the crowd will see I am feeling uncomfortable, leaving them uncomfortable. The performance is important too. I got a headstart because I have been a professional magician for 17 years. If the crowd is pleased by the way you perform, they will leave a tip. The style of clothing will not be in their mind.

Following is three important steps in order to build a bridge collecting good tips with Street Busking:
1. You must have the interest and confidence.
2. You must show a good attitude, and character by being yourself.
3. Please the audience with good entertainment.
With the above three the audience will not mind if the Street Busker wore a different style clothing.

Remember what magicians wore in the 60's? Some magicians still wear tophats or tuxedos. Now there are several different styles.

I have been doing parties in different cities at different ethics. I never had one complaint about what I wore. I also get calls to come back for repeats even though the audience dressed different from me.

Manal, I will explain it a little more to you by sending you a PM.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Aug 9, 2008 02:16AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-08 17:16, Dynamike wrote:
Street busking is not allowed in Detroit. Sidewalk Entertainment is not allowed in a festival of Detroit. There was no one else Street Busking. If someone else was Street Busking, the sergeant would have stopped them too, no matter what type of clothes the person was wearing. If I would have had the type of papers the sergeant asked me for, everything would have been approved.
[/quote]

Ummm ... no ... Sec. 5-1-5(c) clearly says the cops can move you along based on their "judgment". They don't need a reason, if they see a crowd of people all they have to say is you are blocking those people from being able to walk down the sidewalk and your outta there.

It also says you are not allowed to solicit a tip - that means you are not allowed to ask for, persuade, entice, incite, have a sign, or even so much as take your hat off and put it on the ground.

That law is designed to give the cops the authority to mess with people they don't like (hint: that's you). Despite what you think, cops are not paid to take in the sights of the city like tourists - if a cop is watching you, then you have a problem.

I did my first street performance 20 years ago, it is amazing that after going out one time you would come here and proclaim you now know the secrets to getting tips on the street. It doesn't matter how long you have been a magician, you lack "street smarts" - my advice on your attire has absolutely nothing to do with collecting a tip, it has to do with avoiding the police.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Aug 9, 2008 11:05AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-09 03:16, JoeJoe wrote:
I did my first street performance 20 years ago, it is amazing that after going out one time you would come here and proclaim you now know the secrets to getting tips on the street.
[/quote]
I can see how jealousy plays the factor here. :lol:
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Mar 29, 2009 01:42PM)
Mike:

Not sure if you're still doing this but I want to be another to congratulate you for having the guts to go out there and "just do it".

Steve H
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Mar 29, 2009 04:02PM)
Thank you very much, Steve. Yes, I am still doing it. I had to take a break temporarily because of the weather. I was going to do it yesterday, but I still have the TCA Chemical Peel on my face. The film should be off in a few more days.

I have already e-mailed different event planners, waiting for feed back.

My two prime targets are Windsor, Canada and Royal Oak, MI.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Mar 30, 2009 05:09AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-09 12:05, Dynamike wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-09 03:16, JoeJoe wrote:
I did my first street performance 20 years ago, it is amazing that after going out one time you would come here and proclaim you now know the secrets to getting tips on the street.
[/quote]
I can see how jealousy plays the factor here. :lol:
[/quote]

I'm not seeing "jealousy," I'm seeing a guy with experience trying to pass it on.
Now [i]me[/i], I'M jealous!
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Mar 31, 2009 12:37AM)
I certainly have no reason to be jealous of Mike. I gave him square advice, and when it didn't fit into his round hole he lashed out at me. In fact, it is the exact same advice I gave Jeff Wampler on [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_post.php?topic=118836&forum=6&post=4139715]this thread in 2005[/url]:

[quote]
After you been there a while, you can also add to your space - I like a 5 galloon clear water bottle to collect the tips. You can slowly work in signs and other things as well - but be there a few times first, you don't want to shock them with a massive hand cart full of junk. Ease into the space gently, let them get comfortable with you being there. That will prevent complaints from other vendors and what not.
[/quote]



My advice has nothing to do with Mike or what he was wearing - it has to do with the fact that he was a stranger to the environment he was in. Sadly, few buskers ever think about how others in the environment are going to react to their presence; their only focus being on themselves.

It's kind of like playing pool ... oh sure ... the hustler COULD make that bank shot ... but is it really wise to do so on the first game?? If your traveling around hitting established pitches you don't need to worry about it, but if you want to break in a new pitch in an area that is not friendly to buskers ... you need to play smart - you need to play like a hustler.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: gsidhe (Mar 31, 2009 08:10AM)
Well put JoeJoe.
Gwyd
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Mar 31, 2009 08:41AM)
I quite like the suit! It's got a kind of sleazy charm to it.

However, JoeJoe is correct that most buskers seem to dress down as performers.

Perhaps you could try a few different combinations until you find the one that works best for you...
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Mar 31, 2009 10:11PM)
It is all up to the individual on how he wants to dress. He has multiple choices. Some will want to copy others. Some will wear certain outfits in certain areas. I rather be myself and wear something that is casual as I do everywhere I go. I see it helps attracts attention to the individual by wearing a colorful outfit because it stands out from others. Kozmo knows what I am talking about.

The only time I would wear something different is when I am about to perform in a Renaissance Festival because that is what the guest are expecting. Any other festival that has nothing to do with how a person dresses, I'll wear my average outfit.

Busking is about making money while entertaining. By being yourself, it helps makes you more comfortable. When the crowd sees a comfortable busker, they will be willing to give more.

If I had complaints about what I presently wear on the streets or to my paid performances, I would change things around. I just started busking last year. I saw several magicians who noticed me at the festivals. Not one person (magician, guest or event planner) recommended me to wear something else.

"Be yourself."
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Apr 1, 2009 04:36AM)
And talking of clothing, whether you perform dressed in everyday clothes or "in character" clothing, I reckon it's generally a good idea to continue to wear that clothing the while you are around the performing area - walking around, eating out. It makes a good connection with spectators and casual shoppers who have seen you working on the street earlier. I'm quite ameniable, after the show, to sit with such folk and be known as the Magic Man and have these people tell their accompanying friends about my performance. Or to talk magic in general [but Keep The Secrets}.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 1, 2009 02:45PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-01 05:36, MagiCol wrote:
I reckon it's generally a good idea to continue to wear that clothing the while you are around the performing area - walking around, eating out. It makes a good connection with spectators and casual shoppers who have seen you working on the street earlier.
[/quote]

It would have helped if he had done that BEFORE he started performing. Mike keeps wanting to defend his outfit, but there is a much larger issue he doesn't understand. That you must "belong" at your pitch.

Mike was a stranger ... he was dressed funny, drawing crowds of people, and hitting them up for money in an area where that behavior is not considered acceptable. The cops have walked that beat everyday for years, and when they saw him they said "he doesn't belong here".

That is why I told him to dress down, do short shows for small crowds, and don't pass the hat ... the cops would not have chased him away. He could have then gone back. In time, he would be a fixture in the area, everyone would know him, and he could get away with loud outfits, huge crowds, and fat hats.

If you have a permit for a sanctioned festival, it doesn't matter. People in New Orleans are used to street performers ... he wasn't in New Orleans, he was in Detroit. An area like Detroit will take an investment of your time to break in properly, read the ordinance - you can't just make a quick buck there. That's not what they want. You need to "belong" in the area to get away with busking there.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: The Great Zoobini (Apr 1, 2009 06:01PM)
I'm a fan of dressing up and fully playing the part...You should be able to dress anyway you want and the cops and other buskers can blow off :)
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 2, 2009 07:53AM)
I agree with you Zoobini. But you know how those sissies are, scared of the police. haha. Those people have no idea what "control" means. At least that's them and not us.


[quote]
On 2009-03-31 09:41, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:
I quite like the suit! It's got a kind of sleazy charm to it.
[/quote]
Thanks, Nicholas. That is why I wear suits like that. I can easily see you are not one of the jealous ones.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 2, 2009 12:20PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 08:53, Dynamike wrote:
I agree with you Zoobini. But you know how those sissies are, scared of the police. haha. Those people have no idea what "control" means. At least that's them and not us.
[/quote]

You didn't act all brave and stand up to them when they told you to go home. You caved in like a sissy and went home.

Face reality, the cops are the ones that get to decide if you get to busk or not. I suggest you just stick to sanctioned street festivals, you don't get it.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 2, 2009 12:37PM)
I do it my way, you do it your way.
Message: Posted by: tom hughes (Apr 2, 2009 12:46PM)
Can I ask a polite question here.... Dynamike, whenever anyone disagrees with you you define them as "jealous"... what are they supposed to jealous of exactly?

just wondering

tom
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Apr 2, 2009 02:02PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 08:53, Dynamike wrote:
I agree with you Zoobini. But you know how those sissies are, scared of the police. haha. Those people have no idea what "control" means. At least that's them and not us.
[/quote]

I'm not scared of the police, I'm scared of what they can do to me at a moment's notice for virtually any reason they want, with no recourse outside a bail bond card and a phone call... But by that time it's too late, my day is over (possibly with an overnight stay to boot...)

Whenever I even SEE the police look my direction, I put myself into a [i]"I-Need-To-Be-Ready-To-Be-Gone-In-45-Seconds"[/i] mode...
Message: Posted by: mslj (Apr 2, 2009 07:35PM)
Dynamike

The things I have learnt from your knowledge and insight into busking are a wonder to me. Every snippet, every utterence of your understanding reflects that you truely are a giant when it comes to street work, after such a short time as well.......

Joe Joe, I would advise you to keep your years of meaningless knowledge to yourself, jealousy, sir, pure jealousy!!!
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 2, 2009 10:28PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 20:35, mslj wrote:
Joe Joe, I would advise you to keep your years of meaningless knowledge to yourself
[/quote]

No.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 2, 2009 11:36PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 13:46, tom hughes wrote:
Can I ask a polite question here.... Dynamike, whenever anyone disagrees with you you define them as "jealous"... what are they supposed to jealous of exactly?

just wondering

tom
[/quote]
Good question, Tom. No I do not call everyone jealous just because they do not agree with me. If you will look more into the thread you will notice Joe gave a suggestion. I do not agree with what he mentioned. If he took it in an average manner he would have dropped the comments. But he continues demanding what I wear is wrong as if he is hurt/jealous with what I wear. It has nothing to do with him. He is even changing the words around with how I describe what happened. It proves he is feeling some type of pain because of what I wear.

There are a few others members who also agreed with what I wear. They are not coming back trying to attack me like Joe is because it does not hurt them.

If I gave someone a suggestion about something, and they did not take my advice, no problem. I would not repeat coming back because it would not hurt me.

[quote]
On 2009-04-02 15:02, gaddy wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 08:53, Dynamike wrote:
I agree with you Zoobini. But you know how those sissies are, scared of the police. haha. Those people have no idea what "control" means. At least that's them and not us.
[/quote]
I'm not scared of the police, I'm scared of what they can do to me at a moment's notice for virtually any reason they want, with no recourse outside a bail bond card and a phone call... But by that time it's too late, my day is over (possibly with an overnight stay to boot...)

Whenever I even SEE the police look my direction, I put myself into a [i]"I-Need-To-Be-Ready-To-Be-Gone-In-45-Seconds"[/i] mode...
[/quote]
I agree with you 100%, Gaddy. I see it the same exact way. Joe is the one who brought up how I would be arrested for what I am wear. I do not believe him. That is why I am going to continue wearing my same type of outfits.
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 23:28, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 20:35, mslj wrote:
Joe Joe, I would advise you to keep your years of meaningless knowledge to yourself
[/quote]
No.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]
Thank you for your comments, Mslj. Joe is beating a dead horse.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 3, 2009 12:09AM)
#1 I never attacked you, in fact in my very first post I said that it took a lot of guts and that you should be proud.

#2 My advice to you has been consistent from my very first post, and is about a lot more than just what you were wearing - you are the one fixated on your attire, not I:

[quote]
When you show up dressed funny lugging tables and what not, people don't know how to react to you - you freak them out. First time out, you should work from your pockets and build small shows. Don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money. Don't rinse and repeat, do a show and go home. The cops would have smiled and after a few times out they would have been used to you and not been freaked out.
[/quote]

#3 I don't care what you wear. You can wear whatever you want, the important thing is that you should "belong" in the environment you are working. Those cops saw you and said "he doesn't belong here". I was only trying to be helpful by being honest with you and not just acting like a "yes man" - only a fool surrounds themselves with "yes men".

#4 I'm still waiting for you to answer Tom's question ... what exactly are we jealous of?? What, I'm jealous of your suit? I could buy one of those if I wanted - I have a paying gig.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 3, 2009 04:22AM)
Whatever. :lol:

I do not believe a word you said, dude. I am not going to waste my time with you. You are just hurting yourself. Get a life. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Apr 3, 2009 04:29AM)
Ah yes Mikey, after 11,000 posts and no experience we all know your depth of knowledge.

I Like Turtles.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 3, 2009 04:38AM)
What you really like is trying to get on other people nerves because they are better than you are. Well you know what?, I don't care because your baby sentences do not hurt me.
Message: Posted by: rayraysleights (Apr 3, 2009 07:02AM)
I will tell you what has worked for me. Listening to people who have over 20 years experience. The very first time I tried to busk I made $10 the last day I hit the pavement I made $336 By applying other peoples experience with what you already do it will pay you a lot of money. Mike I have seen you perform you have a very unique aproach and a entertaining demeaner. No one else performs like you, you are truly an original. Unless you are willing to be humble and learn and apply there knowlege to what you already do. the streets are not for you and neither is busking. Mike you could be great. the coice is yours
Message: Posted by: mslj (Apr 3, 2009 07:12AM)
Ah the joys of misunderstood English wit and sarcasm

Let me clarify what I was reaslly meaning...

Joe Joe - years of experience of the street
Dynamike - very little experience of the street but feels he has alot

mslj - "The things I have learnt from your knowledge and insight into busking are a wonder to me. Every snippet, every utterence of your understanding reflects that you truely are a giant when it comes to street work, after such a short time as well......."

Translating from English to American English "Dynamike, sssshhhhhh just listen without your need to make noise.

Any clearer?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 3, 2009 10:49AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 08:12, mslj wrote:
Any clearer?
[/quote]

Yes, but I'm still glad I posted all of this. I have received messages from people that have tried my approach and thanking me for the advise because it works. I think the phrase "don't go in with your guns blazing" is a good way to sum it up.

This is actually a nice thread with a lot of meat from a lot of people.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 3, 2009 01:48PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 08:02, rayraysleights wrote:
I will tell you what has worked for me. Listening to people who have over 20 years experience. The very first time I tried to busk I made $10 the last day I hit the pavement I made $336 By applying other peoples experience with what you already do it will pay you a lot of money. [/quote]
You have a strong point I agree with you on. I started performing magic 33 years ago. Most of my years I had no mentor. I was blessed for being gifted with the talent.

Don't get me wrong. I am still willing to take tips from others no matter how much experience I have. That is why I have been opening threads asking questions. Everyone's answer is not the same. I rather listen to those that fits me. Most people in this thread mentioned they like my suit. Only the ones with criticism remarks told me not to wear my suit. It gives me an easy choice with who I should listen to. Those who criticized me in this thread had no ideas for me in any other thread. Those who complimented me in this thread given many several other tips in other threads. That makes it easy for to chose the ones I should listen to.

I have been to Kozmo's and Chris Capehart's lecture. I like their style of dress. It blends in with my style, don't look average and ordinary.

Danny Hustle knows what level I am on. He mentioned good comments about me in a different thread because he understands I already have the experience with performing.

I am keep going to listen to others who have the most years of experience (with teaching). Danny Hustle, Kozmo, Cellini, Chris Capehart, etc.

[quote]
Mike I have seen you perform you have a very unique aproach and a entertaining demeaner. No one else performs like you, you are truly an original. Unless you are willing to be humble and learn and apply there knowlege to what you already do. the streets are not for you and neither is busking. Mike you could be great. the coice is yours
[/quote]
It is all about creativity. No one should copy others. There are several ways of doing it. I tried my methods and my crowds are happier than I am with my way of style.

Performing magic used to be about wearing gloves, a top hat and a cape. Now that is way gone. Whoever broke the former tradition wanted to be himself and apply something different.
Message: Posted by: The Great Zoobini (Apr 3, 2009 02:47PM)
You can go way back in the pages here in this forum and see when they first started busking...may surprise some
Message: Posted by: tom hughes (Apr 3, 2009 03:00PM)
You've been to Kozmo and Chris Capeheart's lectures? Oh... you must be a busking god already! I'm off to see Michael Ammar lecture tonight, think I'll be booked for the castle tomorrow!

Will you stop fixating on the suit please? Joejoe's "criticism" had very little to do with what you wear but rather in the way that you effectivelly destroyed that pitch for yourself by going in guns blazing rather than subtly establishing yourself as a presence in the locale... it's a very valid point and I'm sure you will live to regret not listening to it.

I notice on this thread that there are very few people actually responding who are practicing buskers... i.e. people who go out, draw a crowd to them, entertain that crowd and pass the HAT to make money. Two of those actual, real life buskers are JoeJoe and Paddy yet you choose to denigrate them and merely listen, and acknowledge, those with whom you already agree; thus learning absolutely nothing. Why do you do this? Well it could be because you are jealous of them, I think it is.

Go out this summer Mike, dress as you will, pack big and play big, refer to all those who disagree, or offer valid and good advise to you FOR FREE (!!), as jealous, become an internet "expert", insist on learning through the school of hard knocks and harder heads... or listen to actual, real, honest to goodness, in the street, hat passing BUSKERS and save yourself a load of hassle... it'll still be a tough learning curve.

Oh, and by the way Mike... self praise is no recommendation.

tom
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 3, 2009 03:31PM)
Relax, Tom. You can do it too if you try, I promise. It takes self-confidence.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 3, 2009 04:04PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 16:00, tom hughes wrote:
Joejoe's "criticism" had very little to do with what you wear but rather in the way that you effectivelly destroyed that pitch for yourself by going in guns blazing rather than subtly establishing yourself as a presence in the locale... it's a very valid point and I'm sure you will live to regret not listening to it.
[/quote]

I'm glad to see others are comprehending my point. At some point, I was actually re-reading my posts trying to see where I failed to articulate my advice properly.

I'm beginning to think that it is Mike that has the issue with his suit - I myself don't have any issues with his attire. In fact ... I told him "that suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage" in my very first post. It has nothing to do with the suit itself.



I will try to explain this to you again Mike, I'll simplify it and leave the suit out entirely by focusing on this one part: "don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money".

If you had not passed the hat, those cops would not have asked you for your paperwork (paperwork that doesn't even exist). If you had gone there a couple of days, and those cops saw you there daily ... they would eventually get to the point where they wouldn't pay you no mind. THEN ... THEN ... you could have passed the hat and they would have never batted an eye lash at you.

It's been a year, you could actually go back now ... go to City Hall, and ask the City Clerk for a copy of the regulation you found ... get her card and staple it to the code she gives you. She will do this, City Clerks are normally very nice. If the cops should hassle you, hand them the paper work and explain she said it would be ok.

But if you do this ... don't go out there guns blazing - let them see you working a few times before you turn up the heat. If you do this properly, and you become a local fixture ... then you have a "perfect pitch". The reason? Because if anyone else should ever show up to take your spot ... those same cops will chase them off for you! If you invest the time into breaking this pitch in, you could end up doing very well for yourself there.

But be careful passing the hat - you want to figure out how to get people to give you money without asking them for it. After you've been out a few times and the cops have sniffed you out and are leaving you alone, introduce a small tip jar on the ground. If you can befriend the cops, do so ... and then drop them hints on how your not making much money. Your goal in doing so is to get them to give you advise on how to make more money - think like a hustler.



You can dismiss my advice if you like, it is no skin off my back either way. I think I've been very nice to you. Like it's been pointed out here by others ... I'm the guy that has been doing what you want to do for years and years now. In fact, I've worked Detroit - lots of liquor stores, lots of bums. You are smart for looking for areas outside Detroit to work. Do you have any amusement parks? I'd recommend somewhere like Six Flags for you. Somewhere you can find tourists from outside the Detroit area.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 3, 2009 04:15PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 05:22, Dynamike wrote:
Whatever. :lol:

I do not believe a word you said, dude. I am not going to waste my time with you. You are just hurting yourself. Get a life. :rotf:
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: tom hughes (Apr 3, 2009 04:54PM)
You... sir.... are a buffoon.
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 3, 2009 05:34PM)
Mike, no one is talking about your suit any more, we are talking about your attitude. The same attitude that makes me want to step in and write this message.

I think you are blowing this thing WAY out of proportion. Your replies have reached melting point, the point of no return, where if you start to agree with anything JoeJoe says it will make you seem weak and unexperienced.

I don't see how you can move on from here without eating a little crow and apologizing for your actions. This did not start out as an attack thread, and 99% of the advise you have received in it is helpful to you if you would only have eyes to see. But right now your ego has invested too much for that. You are blinded right now by ego and embarrassment, and you really need to step back and take a deep breath before going on with this discussion.

I hope you take this message in the same spirit in which it is offered.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 4, 2009 02:20AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 18:34, Chance wrote:
Mike, no one is talking about your suit any more, we are talking about your attitude. The same attitude that makes me want to step in and write this message.

I think you are blowing this thing WAY out of proportion. Your replies have reached melting point, the point of no return, where if you start to agree with anything JoeJoe says it will make you seem weak and unexperienced.

I don't see how you can move on from here without eating a little crow and apologizing for your actions. This did not start out as an attack thread, and 99% of the advise you have received in it is helpful to you if you would only have eyes to see. But right now your ego has invested too much for that. You are blinded right now by ego and embarrassment, and you really need to step back and take a deep breath before going on with this discussion.

I hope you take this message in the same spirit in which it is offered.
[/quote]

Hi, Chance. I have not heard from you for a while. Thanks for jumping in because it is nice to hear from you again.

I agree with the professionals I communicated with privately. They know how to express their advice in a manner well worth listening to.

I have apologized with others before on The Café. It usually starts from a misunderstanding. But here the disagreements just got deeper and deeper. Even if I did apologize, I would just be making it worse because I do not regret a word I put in this thread. I see no need why I should lie with an apology.

I want to thank you again, Chance. But I really meant what I placed in my last post. That's my prerogative.
Message: Posted by: dcjames (Apr 4, 2009 06:05AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 17:04, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 16:00, tom hughes wrote:
Joejoe's "criticism" had very little to do with what you wear but rather in the way that you effectivelly destroyed that pitch for yourself by going in guns blazing rather than subtly establishing yourself as a presence in the locale... it's a very valid point and I'm sure you will live to regret not listening to it.
[/quote]

I'm glad to see others are comprehending my point. At some point, I was actually re-reading my posts trying to see where I failed to articulate my advice properly.

I'm beginning to think that it is Mike that has the issue with his suit - I myself don't have any issues with his attire. In fact ... I told him "that suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage" in my very first post. It has nothing to do with the suit itself.



I will try to explain this to you again Mike, I'll simplify it and leave the suit out entirely by focusing on this one part: "don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money".

If you had not passed the hat, those cops would not have asked you for your paperwork (paperwork that doesn't even exist). If you had gone there a couple of days, and those cops saw you there daily ... they would eventually get to the point where they wouldn't pay you no mind. THEN ... THEN ... you could have passed the hat and they would have never batted an eye lash at you.

It's been a year, you could actually go back now ... go to City Hall, and ask the City Clerk for a copy of the regulation you found ... get her card and staple it to the code she gives you. She will do this, City Clerks are normally very nice. If the cops should hassle you, hand them the paper work and explain she said it would be ok.

But if you do this ... don't go out there guns blazing - let them see you working a few times before you turn up the heat. If you do this properly, and you become a local fixture ... then you have a "perfect pitch". The reason? Because if anyone else should ever show up to take your spot ... those same cops will chase them off for you! If you invest the time into breaking this pitch in, you could end up doing very well for yourself there.

But be careful passing the hat - you want to figure out how to get people to give you money without asking them for it. After you've been out a few times and the cops have sniffed you out and are leaving you alone, introduce a small tip jar on the ground. If you can befriend the cops, do so ... and then drop them hints on how your not making much money. Your goal in doing so is to get them to give you advise on how to make more money - think like a hustler.



You can dismiss my advice if you like, it is no skin off my back either way. I think I've been very nice to you. Like it's been pointed out here by others ... I'm the guy that has been doing what you want to do for years and years now. In fact, I've worked Detroit - lots of liquor stores, lots of bums. You are smart for looking for areas outside Detroit to work. Do you have any amusement parks? I'd recommend somewhere like Six Flags for you. Somewhere you can find tourists from outside the Detroit area.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

Hi JoeJoe -

It is quite obvious to me that your advice is coming from a place of kindness and respect. Not sure why it has been repeatedly met with such consternation, but please know that I, for one, appreciate the time you have spent in your efforts to assist a fellow performer.

I will be in Myrtle Beach the first week of May. Hopefully our paths will cross and I can buy you a cup of coffee.

Best,

dc
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 4, 2009 09:51AM)
Chance: I think his disagreeing with me is making him look weak and inexperienced too, he has really put himself in a catch-22. I don't subscribe to his "whose better than who" attitude in any way shape or form, those magic competitions do more damage than good. Busking is not a competitive sport, it's not a race to see who will "win".

I'd actually like to see him go back - I think that area has a lot of potential. He could be very successful there. But getting thrown off the pitch and pretending it was a huge success is not going to cut it. Yes, he took a big first step and showed a lot of courage and did a great job and should be patted on the back ... but he would be wise to give the situation an honest evaluation looking for mistakes that can be avoided in the future. People that don't admit their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

I'm actually surprised your not telling him to get a TRO and fight the city ... I wouldn't disagree with you if you did, but I do think getting a copy of the ordinance from the Clerk and playing a con job on the cops would be easier, faster, and cheaper. But the first thing he'd need to do is check his ego at the door.



[quote]
On 2009-04-04 07:05, dcjames wrote:
please know that I, for one, appreciate the time you have spent in your efforts to assist a fellow performer.
[/quote]

Your very welcomed James. I'm glad that others are finding it insightful, if I was just talking to Mike I would have gave up on this thread a long time ago. Simon Cowell get's boo'd every night on American Idol, but he still gives people his honest opinion. If Mike can't respect me for being honest with him then that is his problem, not mine.

I'm not sure where I'll be in May, I make it a habit not to start my spring schedule until after I finish my taxes. Shot me a PM closer to May.

You said the first week? The first Thursday of the month is our local magic meeting ... you should come! They are held in Dave Tanner's warehouse - he owns Broadway Magic so when you get to town, go to Broadway at the Beach and look for the magic shop and they can give you directions to the meeting. I don't make many meeting, but I am going to try to be at that one.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 4, 2009 12:04PM)
With all due respect JJ, now you're just rubbing salt in the wounds. Stomping all over his thread doesn't show him you care. Be the bigger man and step back. Leave the man some dignity.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 6, 2009 12:06PM)
I didn't take the man's dignity - the cops did that when they chased him off the pitch. If he wants his dignity, he should go back and get it from them.

To date, I am the absolute only person that has given him any suggestions on how to get his pitch back, or even encouraged him to do so. I'm disappointed with you Chance; you told me to give back my illegal permits and get arrested and file lawsuits ... coddling Mike like this does him no favors. These cops had no right to chase him off public property, I am not the bad guy here!

The law is on Mike's side, since he has found that ordinance I believe he should go back - he has the right to be there. The cops wanted to see his paper work, getting a copy of that ordinance from the City Clerk would meet their criteria. I've said that at least twice now, I think it's actually the third time I've told him to see the City Clerk. Get a yellow highlighter and highlight this sentence of the ordinance so the cops can't miss it: "sidewalk entertainers shall be allowed to perform on outdoor public areas or walkways live entertainment".

He just has to make sure the cops don't use their "discretion" to move him along, while I don't agree with that part of the ordinance it is the law and he needs to be mindful of it. It would be cheaper and faster to get on the cop's good side than to fight the illegal ordinance in Court.



So quit acting like this Mike ... I am the only person here trying to actually help you. It is just foolish of you to disregard my advice because I thought your jacket was inappropriate for the venue. Go get your papers from the clerk, and go reclaim your pitch. I will be the very first person to congratulate you.

Just remember to take it easy at first - don't build large crowds, keep it simple ... after the cops realize your not a problem for them, they will leave you alone and you can then turn the heat up. I would take a tip jar to place on the ground, and if they say anything about it pretend like the clerk said that would be ok as long as you didn't actually ask for a tip and people gave it to him of their own free will. You could actually make a lot of money with balloons that way.

This isn't about your ability to entertain or do magic - if you don't want to listen to me, listen to Jimmy ... page one ... in all capital letters ... "IT DOES NOT MATTER IN THE LEAST HOW GOOD YOU ARE AT MAGIC"! That's lesson #1. You could be the greatest magician in the world, if the cops tell you to go home it is useless.



-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 6, 2009 01:12PM)
[quote]I am the only person here trying to actually help you.[/quote]

This really says it all, doesn't it?

As for how I dispense advise JJ, I give it as I see it, not "one size fits all". Don't make this about me. This is Mike's thread. Just it would be nice if you guys could quit swinging barbs around. Why is it so impossible just to say "here's what I would do" and leave it at that?
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 6, 2009 11:27PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-06 14:12, Chance wrote:
[quote]I am the only person here trying to actually help you.[/quote]

This really says it all, doesn't it?
[/quote]

Yes it does Chance. Now your doing the same thing he is doing - trying to turn this into a personal pee'ing contest. It's not. Mike may have started the thread, but there are 39,179 other people here that have access to it.

The larger issues here are about our rights to busk, what to do when those rights are infringed upon, and how we can prevent them from being infringed upon in the first place. That is what this topic should be about - not Mike's suit.

What is your advise to Mike and the rest of us on these subjects? Just suck it up? Give up the pitch? Hope it doesn't happen again? Only work when you have a permit? Move to Canada? This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last. What do you suggest we do about it when it does happen??

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Apr 7, 2009 04:59AM)
JoeJoe, your latest post reminded me, I was going to phone the nearest city here about their proposed review of their busking policy around now. While I was away, a couple of months back, some buskers in the strand I usually work in part-time were using amplifiers and complaints were made about the noise level. One of the city free weekly newspapers had articles and Letters to the Editor about it for about three weeks. Most people said they wanted the buskers, but not too much noise. So, the city council news was that the busking regulations were due to reviewed in April anyway. Well, since then I've busked a couple of times in that strand and no problems from anyone. I don't use an amplifier and am not a noisy fellow. I also have avoided applying for the busking permit, but had no problem over that. But if I don't speak up at the appropriate time, it's little use crying foul afterwards, is it? At least if I do speak up I can protest that I did object legally. I'd better phone that council tomorrow and catch up on where things are at regarding submissions on the current busking regs. Now, I'd better write me a reminder note...
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 7, 2009 10:29AM)
JJ I've got no bone to pick with you, and I'm in no way threatened by your act. You don't know me, so let me just say for the record that people who do know me know that I am quite comfortable in my own skin, and I've rebuffed much tougher guys than you. If this is a peeing contest, you're standing very alone.

Besides that, you have completely hijacked this thread, which is rude to say the least. All I've been trying to do with my past few messages is to politely remind you to stop, and to start again with your own thread if there are other ideas you would like to bring up on your own.

So now I will do it with less restraint: Stop being a ****. Get off Mike's case and go start your own thread if you feel you're not getting a fair shake with this one.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 7, 2009 10:47AM)
Chance, thanks for using your courage to step in to get this thread undercontrol, I appreciate it. As we all can see Joe is not going to listen. I believe because he knows he is wrong with his earlier post, so he now wants to come and change his/my words around. It is really going to be no good because I picture a person the same as when I first meet them. And he is really making his post look worse by the changing. For example:
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 06:49, JoeJoe wrote:
I'm not going to pat you on the back, you've now ruined your pitch
[/quote]
[quote]
On 2009-04-04 10:51, JoeJoe wrote:
Yes, he took a big first step and showed a lot of courage and did a great job and should be patted on the back
[/quote]



Chance, yes at first it was over the suit. He mentioned I looked like a weirdo:
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 06:49, JoeJoe wrote:
That suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage, but on the street you look like a weirdo. Dress down.
[/quote]
But no big thing because he can not stop me from being who I wants to be, "myself." I can understand why those with an arrest warrant would want to dress down, but I'm clean.

And, Chance, here is one area where he tries and turns my words around:

[quote]
On 2009-04-06 13:06, JoeJoe wrote:
I didn't take the man's dignity - the cops did that when they chased him off the pitch.
[/quote]

I mentioned two cops were watching me. They never chased me down. They watched what I was doing during my first act and walked away. :
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 00:56, Dynamike wrote:
[url=http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/Dynamikex/Street%20Busking/]dynamike[/url]

Photo #102.jpg you will noticed a girl in the front with a pink outfit. Standing behind her is her father. (He gave me $10 after my act). Look slightly right of her father. You will notice a police officer. He had a partner with him also. They stayed until the #108.jpg picture was taken as I was performing my Linking Ring rountine.
[/quote]

A sergeant noticed me passing my hat at the end of my second performance, and did not stop me there.:
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 00:56, Dynamike wrote:
I moved to a different area about 30 feet away and performed again. I had more of a crowd. I felt more relaxed. I saw a sergeant as I doing my collection. He did not say anything to me. I moved to a new area about 50 feet away. I was announcing I was about to start. The sergeant spoke to me wanting to see my papers to perform. Since I had nothing to show him he told me to walk away.
[/quote]
The sergeant walked up to me and requested my papers as I was setting up for my third performance because he noticed me passing the hat at the end of my second performance, not because of what I was wearing.

And, Chance, another reason I am not going to take Joe's advice is because it can get me in trouble. Noticed the following as he mentions "the cops had no right to chase me off public property." (It was really a sergeant telling me to leave). And notices how Joe mentions I should get a copy of the city ordinance and highlight a certain sentence:
[quote]
On 2009-04-06 13:06, JoeJoe wrote:
These cops had no right to chase him off public property, I am not the bad guy here!

The law is on Mike's side, since he has found that ordinance I believe he should go back - he has the right to be there. The cops wanted to see his paper work, getting a copy of that ordinance from the City Clerk would meet their criteria. I've said that at least twice now, I think it's actually the third time I've told him to see the City Clerk. Get a yellow highlighter and highlight this sentence of the ordinance so the cops can't miss it: "sidewalk entertainers shall be allowed to perform on outdoor public areas or walkways live entertainment".
[/quote]

Now look what a certain line of the city ordinance reads:
[quote]
On 2008-08-08 17:16, Dynamike wrote:
(2) Such performances shall not take place during any carnival, festival, parade, or other event that either is scheduled by any city department or is permitted by the city council;
[/quote]

I mentioned in my first post this was a "festival":
[quote]
On 2008-08-04 00:56, Dynamike wrote:
Sunday, 8-30-08 is my first time street busking. One of the summer weekly festivals were happening Downtown Detroit at Hart Plaza.
[/quote]

Chance, if I go by Joe's advice I can get arrested. It is best not to try and fight a law enforcer's demand. That sergeant did have the right to tell me to leave because of what I doing at the festival.

There is much more I can prove, but I am just wasting my time by reading his post, Chance. No problem, if wants to take this thread to himself, let it be. I know where I am at. That is why I started this thread without any questions. Keep cool, Chance. Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: sardini (Apr 7, 2009 01:27PM)
Personally, I think that Dynamike's blue suit and JoeJoe's blue star combo go great together. You two should reconcile and become a duo like Penn and Teller. You could call yourselves, True Blue Hue. Have to go... feeling a little blue. (hardy har har)
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 7, 2009 02:25PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-07 11:47, Dynamike wrote:
yes at first it was over the suit. He mentioned I looked like a weirdo:
[/quote]

Weird - it means "of strange or extraordinary character". Are you saying that your suit is not extraordinary? The suit does not look "ordinary" to me, but that's just my opinion.



[quote]
On 2009-04-07 11:47, Dynamike wrote:
I mentioned two cops were watching me. They never chased me down. They watched what I was doing during my first act and walked away. :
[/quote]

At the end the day, they told you to go home - yes, they chased you off the pitch. It's a figure of speech. I didn't mean you were literally running from them.



[quote]
On 2008-08-08 17:16, Dynamike wrote:
(2) Such performances shall not take place during any carnival, festival, parade, or other event that either is scheduled by any city department or is permitted by the city council;
[/quote]

Is there a festival there this weekend? If not, you could work that pitch. You have a lot of nerve to call us "sissy" when you are the one that is afraid to go back. And if you go back and work that pitch every weekend ... when the festival gets here ... the cops would let you work it. You will "belong" there. You fail to grasp the concept.

The biggest hurdle you have to cross is how to pass the hat when your not allowed to pass the hat. Ever since "Magic Mike" (no relation to you Dynamike) lost his lawsuit against Seattle these "no hat line" laws have been cropping up everywhere. I fear that if the conservative court upholds them, we are all going to end up screwed.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 7, 2009 02:28PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-07 14:27, sardini wrote:
Personally, I think that Dynamike's blue suit and JoeJoe's blue star combo go great together. You two should reconcile and become a duo like Penn and Teller. You could call yourselves, True Blue Hue. Have to go... feeling a little blue. (hardy har har)
[/quote]

I once had a kid tell me I was dressed like a weirdo ... I said "it doesn't look like you dressed yourself over there". His mom couldn't stop laughing.

I have no desire for a partner, I prefer to work alone. But yes ... Mike would make a great one if I wanted to go that route. He would be on the short list of people I'd be willing to partner with. I don't understand why he thinks I don't like him.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 7, 2009 03:01PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-07 14:27, sardini wrote:
Personally, I think that Dynamike's blue suit and JoeJoe's blue star combo go great together. You two should reconcile and become a duo like Penn and Teller. You could call yourselves, True Blue Hue. Have to go... feeling a little blue. (hardy har har)
[/quote]
Sardini, think again...

Dynamike's website: http://aceproductionsusa.com/

JoeJoe's website: http://joejoeonline.com

Dynamike on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4xxir9whI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9TdvSi8Sc&feature=related

JoeJoe on You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KegD9XcTAl4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxzgEOkPijI&feature=channel_page
Message: Posted by: gsidhe (Apr 7, 2009 03:17PM)
Oh my...
And Dynamike takes it to the next level!!


The next level down.

A side by side comparison?
Seriously?

Gwyd
Message: Posted by: sardini (Apr 7, 2009 03:37PM)
Yikes! Okay, Mike, let me point this out slowly. Mike, you posted photos of yourself on photobucket busking in a BLUE SUIT. Got it? Next, JoeJoe is wearing a BLUE STAR OUTFIT in his avatar photo here at the Café. See it? Again, Mike is busking in a BLUE SUIT. JoeJoe is wearing a BLUE STAR OUTFIT in his avatar. That means that BOTH OF YOU are wearing BLUE!!! It was a joke. See the hardy har har at the end? Apparantly, it went over your head. Mike, work on that chip, okay?
Message: Posted by: mslj (Apr 7, 2009 06:50PM)
.... and still the world slowly turns!

Guys this thread is perplexing. Perhaps, it is time to move on and leave behind the world of 'he said - he said'

Mike and Joe Joe, all the best to both of you. Just please promise me that you will never have a love child. That prospect is mildly disturbing.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 8, 2009 01:23PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 17:04, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-03 16:00, tom hughes wrote:
Joejoe's "criticism" had very little to do with what you wear but rather in the way that you effectivelly destroyed that pitch for yourself by going in guns blazing rather than subtly establishing yourself as a presence in the locale... it's a very valid point and I'm sure you will live to regret not listening to it.
[/quote]

I'm glad to see others are comprehending my point. At some point, I was actually re-reading my posts trying to see where I failed to articulate my advice properly.

I'm beginning to think that it is Mike that has the issue with his suit - I myself don't have any issues with his attire. In fact ... I told him "that suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage" in my very first post. It has nothing to do with the suit itself.



I will try to explain this to you again Mike, I'll simplify it and leave the suit out entirely by focusing on this one part: "don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money".

If you had not passed the hat, those cops would not have asked you for your paperwork (paperwork that doesn't even exist). If you had gone there a couple of days, and those cops saw you there daily ... they would eventually get to the point where they wouldn't pay you no mind. THEN ... THEN ... you could have passed the hat and they would have never batted an eye lash at you.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

I've cut the rest of this because I want to comment on this one point. I was working Thayer Street in Providence with the understanding that I would NOT make direct solicitations for money. As I understood that, no passing the hat. So I had a passive bucket on the ground in front of the table. This was the third or fourth time I'd performed in front of this pizza parlor (with permission of the manager) when a police Lt. came up and the conversation basically went;

What are you doing?

Performing magic.

What's with the bucket?

People give me tips.

I won't have it.

I uh, have a permit.

And it says, "at police descrition" doesn't it?

Yeah.

I won't have it.

So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Apr 8, 2009 06:48PM)
No hatting or not even a hat for free-will donations. No solicitations. It's a sad day when a city has such a tight restriction on buskers who are entertaining the public. Sometimes laws get made because somebody has pressed too much for donations, then when the person/problem has gone the authorities/public don't get to change back to "normal" and the law stays. There's room here for some of us to write a letter and question authorities' tough restrictions. But whether we will be able to sway a committee, um...Or go back on the street when the cop is off duty. Or come up with some excuse like : "I thought your warning was just for that occasion. Sorry, I'll move on."
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 8, 2009 08:08PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-08 14:23, ed rhodes wrote:
So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.
[/quote]
I've have wrestled with this problem trying to find a simple solution.

Take a guitar player for example, he opens his case. Takes out his instrument. And people place tips in it. If a cop would ask him the same question, "that's what I carry my guitar in". I would try to find a similar case for your magic, at which point you can answer the question differently.

I remember once in Myrtle Beach I had a conversation with a cop about people tipping ... I said "well I don't ask them to, but I'm not going to tell them not to either - would you?" ... he laughed it off and walked off.

In most cases ... it just boils down to how well you can talk to a cop. It sounds in your situation Ed, he wanted to move you along - I doubt you could have said anything to him to stay. At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.
[quote]
On 2009-04-08 19:48, MagiCol wrote:
There's room here for some of us to write a letter and question authorities' tough restrictions.
[/quote]
Every major industry spends millions (billions?) in lobbying Congress for favorable laws. In many cases, their lobby efforts are attacks on us - land developers and real estate tycoons, these people are the ones that have the most influence with local politicians.

Buskers ... we do virtually nothing to get better laws other than to complain about them. I'd like to see IBM and SAM start doing a little lobbying for us. I know when I went to the Myrtle Beach Council, I tried to get the local ring leader to come with me ... he wanted nothing to do with it, and advised me not to do it - he said if I wanted to stay out of trouble, I should fly under the radar and not cause trouble. :(

-JoeJoe

[quote]
On 2009-04-08 21:08, JoeJoe wrote:
At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.
[/quote]
I want to add that talking to those people can do a lot more good than you would think ... I know I got in a fight with a cop about a junk car in my yard not being covered. It wasn't my car, and I wasn't going to just have it towed (even though the owner wouldn't have cared). All I wanted her to do was what the ordinance said - put a red sticker on it. She didn't want to do that, said she didn't have to.

Well I am stubborn and went about going to the City Clerk ... when she wouldn't help, I wanted to talk to the City Attorney. What a meeting that was! Talk about having fun, I actually stood up and moved behind his desk and put my finger on the ordinance he was reading showing him exactly where it said she was supposed to put a red sticker on it - I pretty much took control of his office, he didn't like that. lol

Well, to make the long story short ... on court day they dismissed the case against me, but I told them I still wanted to see the judge because I had a complaint about the way my case was handled ... they nearly dragged me out of the court house where I got in another fight with the Sargent. Well the girl cop was there, and took him aside and said "you don't understand, he's already been to the Clerk and talked to the City Attorney".

When they get a call from the City Attorney, they get scared of you! Don't think they don't.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 9, 2009 04:41PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-08 21:08, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-08 14:23, ed rhodes wrote:
So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.
[/quote]

I've have wrestled with this problem trying to find a simple solution.

Take a guitar player for example, he opens his case. Takes out his instrument. And people place tips in it. If a cop would ask him the same question, "that's what I carry my guitar in". I would try to find a similar case for your magic, at which point you can answer the question differently.

I remember once in Myrtle Beach I had a conversation with a cop about people tipping ... I said "well I don't ask them to, but I'm not going to tell them not to either - would you?" ... he laughed it off and walked off.

In most cases ... it just boils down to how well you can talk to a cop. It sounds in your situation Ed, he wanted to move you along - I doubt you could have said anything to him to stay. At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 9, 2009 07:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-09 17:41, ed rhodes wrote:
The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend
[/quote]

Do you remember who on the Council told you that? You need to go back to them, and tell them what the cop said ... and it would be helpful if you had his name.

I would approach it in a "you had told me that it would be ok if I had a tip jar out - but officer so-and-so made me go home because I had one out and now I'm confused and would like some clarification". What you want them to do is to contact the cop shop who will in turn contact the officer who will never hassle you again after that.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 10, 2009 04:24AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-09 20:05, JoeJoe wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-09 17:41, ed rhodes wrote:
The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend
[/quote]

Do you remember who on the Council told you that? You need to go back to them, and tell them what the cop said ... and it would be helpful if you had his name.

I would approach it in a "you had told me that it would be ok if I had a tip jar out - but officer so-and-so made me go home because I had one out and now I'm confused and would like some clarification". What you want them to do is to contact the cop shop who will in turn contact the officer who will never hassle you again after that.

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

No. I don't have either name. However, this is Rhode Island, the answer will be; "Well, we have to leave it to the descretion of the local police. If he told you you have to move on, that's the way it is." Trust me, I've been here long enough to know how the ineptitutude (sp) works!
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 10, 2009 12:26PM)
Gotta learn how to talk to people Ed ... listen to the way I phrased it - "you said I could have a tip jar out" ... who's in charge here, you the council? Or him the cop ... you gotta pit them against each other! Every government has internal power struggles, find them an exploit them.

Your always just the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire - your just confused and don't know what to do.



Do you know where this ordinance actually is? I went to municode and looked up Providence RI and can't find any ordinance on street performing at all. Section 16-20 however prohibits "aggressive solicitation" ... but I hardly call having a tip jar at your feet aggressive and don't see you in violation.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=11458&sid=39

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 10, 2009 04:03PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-10 05:24, ed rhodes wrote:
No. I don't have either name. However, this is Rhode Island, the answer will be; "Well, we have to leave it to the descretion of the local police. If he told you you have to move on, that's the way it is." Trust me, I've been here long enough to know how the ineptitutude (sp) works!
[/quote]
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 10, 2009 08:14PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-10 13:26, JoeJoe wrote:
Gotta learn how to talk to people Ed ... listen to the way I phrased it - "you said I could have a tip jar out" ... who's in charge here, you the council? Or him the cop ... you gotta pit them against each other! Every government has internal power struggles, find them an exploit them.

Your always just the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire - your just confused and don't know what to do.



Do you know where this ordinance actually is? I went to municode and looked up Providence RI and can't find any ordinance on street performing at all. Section 16-20 however prohibits "aggressive solicitation" ... but I hardly call having a tip jar at your feet aggressive and don't see you in violation.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=11458&sid=39

-JoeJoe
[/quote]

The City Council, when they gave me the permit, said that street police can override it. I just kinda hoped it would be for a reason; blocking the street, annoying the pedestrians, something of that nature rather than; "I've got you here, I've got the face painter down the street and the guitar player up the block. This place is becoming a circus and I won't have it!" That's (almost) a direct quote.
Message: Posted by: JoeJoe (Apr 10, 2009 09:09PM)
I would think if they gave you a permit there would be an ordinance on it, does the permit tell you what section of code it falls under? What kind of permit is it exactly? If I could find the ordinance I might be of more help.

It's all in how you talk to people ... ever see that movie "Catch Me If You Can"? Frank Abagnale would figure out who he has to tell what in order to get what he wants. You got to run a hustle on these people, cops and politicians can smell fear - don't let them see you sweat. Your the voting taxing paying citizen, you are the boss.

-JoeJoe
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 10, 2009 10:06PM)
Pm-ing you.
Message: Posted by: Nick W (Apr 12, 2009 04:14AM)
Dynamike,

joe joe said to change the costume. heres another school of thought:
I feel your pimp suit is great. it defines who you are with just a glance. americans seem facniated with pimps and women and what not. so if your playing the role of the positive pimp, with nothing negative, and making people laugh, you have a unique roll. people appriciate it. if your audience is mostly black people, then the black man in a pimp suit will be more fun then the black man in the suit and tie. they can relate to that role better. know what I'm sayn'? I'm just suggesting to look at the show from their perspective. pimps have money, so a good clean fun misers dream would be quite fitting, don't you think? bill changes are good also. I don't want to see a pimp magician performing with silks. I want to see him manipulating money. (personal opinion) but look at practicality, if its hot where you play, then re think the suit idea....unless you have iced out mini fans in your suit....
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Apr 12, 2009 02:03PM)
Good idea Nick. but the silks could be used too. Pimps play with their women's panties.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Apr 12, 2009 04:27PM)
This thread has gotten suddenly very weird...
Message: Posted by: MagiCol (Apr 12, 2009 05:35PM)
Your right, Gaddy. Now we - or somebody - could be close to getting in to silk panties for an act!! Now, where were we...?
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 13, 2009 12:53PM)
Gaddy, MagiCol, I know what it is all about. It deals with the certain members who are jealous to see me take it to a higher level than they can handle within a short amount of time. They don't know I have been performing magic for 33 years. I was already use to handling being nervous, the patter, being outside, etc. I know you two are not either of the jealous ones, that is why you two want to support and help me if I got a question. The jealous ones know who they are. Gaddy and MagiCol, to be more specific, watch the jealous ones come back and conflict with this post of mine. They will show who they are themselves, because of their lack of self-control. It will be no need for me to tell you their names.
Message: Posted by: Chance (Apr 13, 2009 02:48PM)
Mike, I would just like to say something:

I've been one of the guys here trying to keep things real in this thread; whether or not this makes me a "supporter" in your eyes is up to you.

But let me just say, I also do NOT like your clothing choices. But hey, that's just me. I don't ask you to dress like me either, so no sweat off either of our backs as far as I can tell.

But dude, you are NOT taking ANYTHING to a higher level. Not here at the MC, and not out on the street. Deal with it. (And before you get bent out of shape, remember, I'm one of the good guys here!)

And this is coming from someone that's performed magic & escapes since before you were born, and I've busked 23 countries & 35 US states for many thousands of shows. So jealousy has, like, zero part in what I'm saying. But I just can't sit back and let you ramble on and on about how great your style is and how you are somehow the best of the best and we all aspire to 'be like Mike.' It ain't like that ay all my friend. Not at all.

I wish you well this summer, I really do! And definitely get out there and DO IT YOUR WAY. Your way, not mine or anyone elses'. But don't be too offended if I don't break out my lounge singing suits, either, OK?

Last but not least, I'm perfectly able to speak for myself, and everyone here knows it. I will gladly smack down any one else here who tries to include me on any type of "get Mike" bandwagon. I got nothing against Mike, so DO NOT go and put words in my mouth, or chime in and tell me how 'right on' I am with my observations, ect. Go make your own if you have any and stand on your own merits.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 13, 2009 08:14PM)
Chance, I know you are one of the good guys. Better yet, you are one of the "best" guys. We need more guys like you in this forum. I hope you were not thinking I was including you as one of the jealous ones in my previous post.

I can understand you do not dress my way because it is not your interest. I see no offense in that. Around Detroit there are different cultures of people. The Jews and Muslims have a different way of dressing compared to a lot of residents who were born in America. I do not put any of those individuals on a "hate list" because they dress different from most of us. I see it as no problem. This is America. The only ones who I am against are the prejudice ones who are against others from dressing their style.

There are residents who are also jealous of how the Jews and Muslims made success with businesses in the area I live in. Those losers should get off their butts and get to work like the winners did, not sit down and make complaints about others. The losers are just making it worse for themselves.

I like asking questions on the Magic Café about anything I can think of. On a different thread I was talking about dressing down. I learned things from that thread too. If I never asked the questions, I probably would have never known the answers. In this thread someone mentioned "dressing down." I did not know that was a way to mention that type of dress style. In a different thread when I first entered, I called it "hobo like." I will not use that term anymore.

Again, Chance, I was never against you. I know you are one of those with wisdom, good attitude, understanding, experience and courage. I understand what you put above, and I believe you. I always knew you were not one of the jealous ones. There are others who have a different style from the way I dress too. I can easily tell the losers from the winners. You winners are the only ones I would listen to. So relax, Chance, I will read and listen to your advise. And thanks for all the support you have given me in this thread and other threads.

Losers should get off your high horses and get to work. You jealous ones know who I am talking about. Go ahead, come back with a confrontation, I don't care.
Message: Posted by: ray raymond (Apr 13, 2009 08:31PM)
Mike, reading this thread I really don't think any one came at you confrontionaly.
you say you wanted to ask questions. well you got answers. I don't think they are jealous. They were simply instucting on how to not bring unwanted attention to yourself,for the sake of the pitch. the last thing any busker wants to do is close the doors on a spot to work before you get to work it. joejoe is not jealous he is experienced. He also made a few good points. Any one who has worked for that long should be respected. Especially by someone who wants to learn to busk. mike don't take this the wrong way but you seem to be biting the hand that feeds you in this thread.
Message: Posted by: msmaster (Apr 13, 2009 08:54PM)
Can't we all just get along?
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Apr 13, 2009 08:58PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-13 21:14, Dynamike wrote:

If I never asked the questions, I probably would have never known the answers. In this thread someone mentioned "dressing down." I did not know that was a way to mention that type of dress style. In a different thread when I first entered, I called it "hobo like." I will not use that term anymore.
[/quote]

No you didn't you called it [b]"homo like"[/b] !!!


Bwahahahaha!
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 13, 2009 09:02PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-13 21:31, ray raymond wrote:
mike don't take this the wrong way but you seem to be biting the hand that feeds you in this thread.
[/quote]
I may be hungry, but I do not want anyone trying to shove poison down my throat. "No" means "No."

[quote]
On 2009-04-13 21:58, gaddy wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-13 21:14, Dynamike wrote:

If I never asked the questions, I probably would have never known the answers. In this thread someone mentioned "dressing down." I did not know that was a way to mention that type of dress style. In a different thread when I first entered, I called it "hobo like." I will not use that term anymore.
[/quote]
No you didn't you called it [b]"homo like"[/b] !!!

Bwahahahaha!
[/quote]
That was a misspelling. I mentioned it and corrected it back then.
Message: Posted by: ray raymond (Apr 13, 2009 09:38PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-13 22:02, Dynamike wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-13 21:31, ray raymond wrote:
mike don't take this the wrong way but you seem to be biting the hand that feeds you in this thread.
[/quote]
I may be hungry, but I do not want anyone trying to shove poison down my throat. "No" means "No."
[/quote]
they are trying to keep you away from poison.
if no means no it is a little rude to as for help then say no
ok mike you are great every one sucks if only people would spend more time posting and less time working they would know as much as you one day.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Apr 13, 2009 09:50PM)
I don't understand what you are typing. But that is ok, because I already know who I want to listen to. You can not make me change my mind. "No" thanks.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Apr 14, 2009 12:00PM)
Look brothers, the reality here is that everyone who is out on the streets performing is paving their own way. Some people find and learn a path that will give them success, others will just [i]have[/i] to struggle... That's life.

Some people you meet on the streets will have hearts of gold, and some will try to rip you off. Some do both, believe it or not...

I cannot even tell you how many people I've met busking that, if I never see them again it'll be way too soon, while conversely, I've already met people I know will be life-long friends.

If I don't like what Mike is saying, I certainly don't have to listen -I can metaphorically "just move down the street..." but to plant a flag in his sandbox is a big waste of time, and has already led to bad feelings between some people.

I expect this sort of behavior from the likes of the mentalists and the gospel magicians, but buskers should know that this is energy not well spent.

Just sayin' .....