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Topic: Brand new and don't have a clue
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 10, 2008 12:49PM)
Hi everyone, I'm brand new and not sure what to look for or how to get around so bear with me.

My uncles a really good at card magic. He gets mad when I say he does tricks, he says it's not tricks it's magic, and he is starting to help me. He gave me a book called the Royal Road To Card Magic and told me to start there.

Any suggestions!
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Aug 10, 2008 01:02PM)
Good staring point. Plenty of good card "tricks" in there. :) Don't get too hung up on the terminology. The magic is in the performance, but we're still performing tricks.

Best of luck!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 10, 2008 01:22PM)
Thanks magiguy
I like your name. my uncle said he wanted me to learn a key card trick to show him, and each time I showed him a trick he would help teach me more. He wants me to be serious!
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 10, 2008 01:41PM)
Hi Julianna and Welcome to the Café,

Some folks don't mind what they do being called "tricks" while others do.
The key is to make those tricks magical.

Your uncle is doing what I've done with my grandkids. That being that they have to show me that they seriously want to learn before I show them more.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 10, 2008 02:09PM)
Hi Jaz,

I was reading thru the trick, Do As I Do. What do you think? I'm gonna learn it.
Message: Posted by: Magikrn (Aug 10, 2008 02:27PM)
Do As I Do is a great effect. Plenty of room for audience participation and humor. Learn it, love it, embrace it. Another great effect is You Can't Do As I Do, from Mark Wilson's Complete Course In Magic.
Message: Posted by: jcards01 (Aug 10, 2008 02:58PM)
Royal Road is a great starting place. It teaches and progresses as it goes along. Start at the beginning and have fun.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 10, 2008 03:14PM)
Do As I Do card effect are a great way to connect with a person.
Learn the method and think about an entertaining way to present it. Then rehearse it and get it it as close to perfect as possible. Then.. try it on someone. That's when you will really learn.

Good luck on your magic journey.
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Aug 10, 2008 04:29PM)
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 10, 2008 05:05PM)
As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 10, 2008 05:22PM)
Another small piece of advice is to stick with books/DVDs that offer numerous effects. One trick dvds are almost always not the way to go if you want to get the most bang for your buck. At least in the beginning of your journey.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 10, 2008 05:52PM)
Wow! Thanks for the advice everyone. I like to read anyway, especially when I'm at the beach or just layin' out in the sun. I already bought 2 decks of cards from Walgreens today for this trick. I'm gettin' it already! This is too cool, can't wait to do it for my uncle.
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 10, 2008 05:59PM)
Good luck and enjoy the journey, I know I have. :)
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 10, 2008 06:14PM)
I also started with Royal Road to Card Magic. Its a great book. Just have patients and take your time with it. The key thing is to have fun.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Aug 10, 2008 06:59PM)
Royal Road is a wonderful book. Do as I Do is a wonderful set, especially if you can learn a couple of different ways to do it.

The only piece of "advice" I can offer is to perform as often as you can. Perform in the morning, perform in the afternoon, and perform in the evening. Then go to sleep, wake up, and do it again. Performance is the real aspect of magic. Get out there and do it. That's where you find yourself. That's where the magic is.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 10, 2008 08:45PM)
Patrick, the book only shows 1 way to do the trick how can I learn a different way? I'm gonna show my mom tomorrow, she knows I've spent most of the day working on it.
Message: Posted by: casibb3 (Aug 10, 2008 09:02PM)
Julianna.

Royal Road an excellent choice, and further into detail is Expert Card Technique.
Both books same authors, but the Expert treatise is more technical.

You are on the right path...stay focused. Do as I Do has many, many variations. Try a few of them, settle on the one you can DO BEST, even tho it maynot be your favorite. Execution is the keyword, many of my presentations are not my favorites, but the paying customers like them, so I do them. Always keep the customer of your wares on top.

Best to you in your journey into the land of the mysterious.
Message: Posted by: CardWiz (Aug 10, 2008 09:43PM)
I would recommend 8 card brainwave. I learned it on easy to master card miracles vol 1 .

effect:

You show 8 cards and ask someone to think of one of them.
He tells you which card it was and you place it face up onto a table.

You show the backs of the rest of the cards to be blue for instance.
The thought of card is flipped over to be red.

If you search I am sure you can find the secret on the internet...unfortunately

This is a super easy trick but you need red and blue cards.

CW
Message: Posted by: Magiguy (Aug 10, 2008 11:41PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 18:05, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 17:29, Magiguy wrote:
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
[/quote]

As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.
[/quote]

Granted, I am not a teacher, but I stand by my advice that you stick with books. Feel free to PM me if you would like clarification on the subject (my opinion, of course).
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Aug 11, 2008 12:23AM)
Julianna,

Ten books and a fist full of DVDs are not as good as the one book you have. Royal Road is a real gem. There is enough material in there to last you at least one year, probably more!!

Pick one trick at a time to learn. Don't worry about different versions. Watch yourself in the mirror, or a video camera if you have one.

Do each trick over and over enough times that you're relaxed when you do it. Figure out what you want to say, during the trick, ahead of time. Then rehearse your words with what your hands are doing.

Get your Uncle to help you if you get stuck. He obviously knows a lot, and is probably so happy you're interested in magic that he can't stand it!

You keep it up. Don't hang out here unless you have a question. Then come back.

Now go practice Do as I Do.

Kent
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 11, 2008 12:29AM)
Read Kent's post over and over.... take you time. Read, read, read.
Message: Posted by: wsduncan (Aug 11, 2008 12:49AM)
Read Pete Biro's post and follow his advise.

You have someone who will provide you with personal instruction, and who offers good advise (there are hundreds of professional magicians who consider Royal Road to be their bible).

Don't spend much time reading and posting to magic boards. You already have the best resouces you are ready for... Don't rush. The world is full of crappy card trick boyz who rushed.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 11, 2008 01:10AM)
Julianna,

Welcome to the madness! ;)
Lotta good advise given here and as for my 2 centavos I'll simply agree with Kent and ditto what Mr Biro said! I may have started with RRTCM but quickly got obcessed with all the "Latest and Greatest" single trick, packet trick, gaffed this and gaffed that. A bunch of top cat teaching DVD's and a few so so books.
As time went on I found myself drawn back to RRTCM and some other classics and for the most part that is where I have been broadening my scope of card work. I do have a nice selection of DVD's and I am a bit more of a visual learner but I am spending more time reading in the past few months and I am picking up things I missed before!

It's nice to have your Uncle there to guide you as many of us don't have mentors near by. My Maestro lives in Manila and I'm in California! I also have what I call "Internet Mentors" who I feel confidant in feedback I get as well as the directions toward the research I need to do.

Take all of info given here, see what works for you. Study and practice. don't settle for so so presentation, work on it until it feels second nature but no matter what, HAVE FUN!
Message: Posted by: Vlad_77 (Aug 11, 2008 06:55AM)
Hello Julianna,

Welcome to the Café, and to Magic!

You have been given great advice already. So I will reiterate what has been said about performing.

Magic is first and foremost a [b]performing[/b] art. Even if you are only doing your magic for relatives or friends, don't just "do" the effect, perform it! Mickey is correct when he says don't settle for so-so presentation. Even the "simplest" effect is like a play.

Something that no one has yet mentioned that will help your performance skills immensely is to get involved with live theatre. There are so many options out there to learn stagecraft for free. If you are still in middle or high school, get involved in productions. Audition for parts, but also do some tech work as well. It is always good to know both sides of the curtain. Learn about costuming, make-up, blocking, lighting. Because, even if you stick to doing close up magic only, you are still on a "stage". You can also get involved in community theatre productions, and if you are in university you can take some theatre classes.

Respect this ancient Art and put in the work, and the rewards you will receive in return will astound you!

Last bit of advice: Visit here as often as you can. You will get great advice from the best in the business.

Welcome again!

Vlad
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 11, 2008 07:30AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 21:45, Julianna wrote:
Patrick, the book only shows 1 way to do the trick how can I learn a different way? I'm gonna show my mom tomorrow, she knows I've spent most of the day working on it.
[/quote]

Julianna,
Please!
Don't rush things.

As Kent says:
"Do each trick over and over enough times that you're relaxed when you do it. Figure out what you want to say, during the trick, ahead of time. Then rehearse your words with what your hands are doing."

This should take more than a day.
If you want to show your uncle how serious you are then take your time.
I'm sure he will appreciate the time and effort you put into your magic.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Aug 11, 2008 11:37AM)
Don't worry about learning the different versions yet. I only mentioned that for something to do later.

Stick with the way you're doing it now for at least a long time. Then later (a while later...!!!), think about other methods.

Don't overload yourself with the "how-to" part of magic. That's the big mistake and messes up performance. Stick to learning one thing at a time until you get it right, and do it right and perform it right.

Then you'll be ready for the rest of the madness.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 11, 2008 05:14PM)
Hey every1, got back from the pool awhile ago the weather is awesome. can't believe all the posts thanx for all the advice, not sure I understand all of it but will try. wanted to be here when my mom gets home from work so I can show her the trick, hope she likes it, I'm getting nervous just thinking about it and don't know why. I get butterflies sometimes when I dance on stage but this is different.

I'll write back and tell you how it went.

jewels
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 11, 2008 05:20PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 18:05, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 17:29, Magiguy wrote:
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
[/quote]

As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.
[/quote]

Of the three learning modes; visual, auditory or kinesthetic; just which one would you think reading falls into?

For best results, a learner [i]shouldn't[/i] fall wholesale into the mode in which she learns best. There has to be a demand on the learner, or it's just mimicking.
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 11, 2008 06:21PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-11 18:20, Open Traveller wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 18:05, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 17:29, Magiguy wrote:
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
[/quote]

As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.
[/quote]

Of the three learning modes; visual, auditory or kinesthetic; just which one would you think reading falls into?

For best results, a learner [i]shouldn't[/i] fall wholesale into the mode in which she learns best. There has to be a demand on the learner, or it's just mimicking.
[/quote]

Reading falls into verbal, which you left out of your list. Reading is one of the most difficult methods for learning new fields, since vocabulary skills will be limited, which makes decoding unknown words more difficult. However, once the specialized vocabulary is learned, reading passes the highest information density.

So a new learner should choose the method which causes him/her the most difficulty? Guess that is the way to go to increase frustration and reduce the odds of success.

I have no idea what to make of the notion that knowledge is only worthwhile if hard to obtain.
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 12, 2008 04:28PM)
No, a new learner shouldn't choose the method which causes the most difficulty; I didn't say that. What I said is that a learner shouldn't use only the mode that's most comfortable. That's a crippling strategy. One has to keep expanding the boundaries of the comfort zone, and you can't do that by staying in the comfort zone.

"Verbal" isn't a learning mode. It's a skillset. "Reading" is also a skillset. Of the three [i]learning modes,[/i] which are the three I mentioned, which does reading fall into? Verbal falls into "auditory."
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 12, 2008 05:13PM)
I was so excited yesterday but couldn't get in to tell you guys.

this is oh so cool! It worked! she was [b]shocked[/b], you guys should've seen her face. She said she never expected anything like that. I told her that something really cool was going to happen if she did exactly what I did.

[b]You guys are the best![/b]

It's probably no big deal for you guys cause you're probably really good but it made my day. Can't wait to show my uncle tonight. Sorry but the only way I know of to learn right now is from this book.

edh, you say there are DVD's to see magic? Would it be good for me to see how other people do the tricks?

Patrick, I just noticed my private massage box, I will write back to you soon.

Jazz, sorry but I was just so excited I had to try it out.

Thanks Kent- sounds like most agree with you.

Hey Mickey, I did what you said, I had fun, (I usually have fun with everything I do though.

See ya!
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 12, 2008 06:43PM)
Glad you had such a great time. Keep up the enthusiasm, and keep having fun it will take you far.
Message: Posted by: cinemagician (Aug 12, 2008 06:51PM)
Julianna, I would also recomend picking up a copy of Garcia and Schindler's, Magic with Cards. You can get it on amazon for probably a few bucks. This book in my oppinion is the best book ever for the beginner. I'd sugest it be read before RRTCM, but it also makes a nice companion to Royal Road as well. So easy to read- lot's of great self workers and many effects and principles that are not mentioned in Royal Road.
Message: Posted by: jldemsky (Aug 12, 2008 07:33PM)
Read the more classic books as you can , and don't post any card magic video online nor publish any book till 2025. (please)

-LJ
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 12, 2008 07:37PM)
[quote]Edh you say there are dvd's to see magic? would it be good for me to see how other people do the tricks?
[/quote]
Juliana, if you want to see how illusions are performed then you should by these "simple" illusions. They are great. But understand that "simple" is relative. Also simple does not mean easy. There are simple methods for doing what
what we do. That does not, in anyway mean, that it is easy.

Just read and take the advice that is offered here and you'll do o.k.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Aug 12, 2008 07:45PM)
Being a girl, I would look into mentalism. There is just something about a girl doing mentalism that is just more believable than card magic. You want people to believe in what you are doing. Otherwise, your uncle is right: It is just a bunch of "tricks". :devilish:
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 12, 2008 07:48PM)
Oh boy.

(pun not intended)
Message: Posted by: edh (Aug 12, 2008 07:58PM)
'Oh boy' what do you mean?
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 12, 2008 08:04PM)
Just in response to the comment that a girl doing card magic is somehow less believable. I'd elaborate, but I've sworn off Café debates.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 12, 2008 08:08PM)
Edh, I guess I meant...seeing other magicians perform the tricks. if I saw someone perform (Do As I Do) I could compare it to what I have started doing.

OOOh, gotta go, my uncle's here!
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Aug 12, 2008 08:37PM)
It is a matter of preference as to viewing others at your point. The issue is if you end up leading or following on your path. I would only add this: if you know you are new and you know you are clueless, well you have a phenomenal clue. I applaud your honesty and it should serve you well. The biggest clue we can hope to grasp is just how little we do know!

Cheers,

Tom
Message: Posted by: GaryW (Aug 12, 2008 08:52PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 17:29, Magiguy wrote:
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
[/quote]
No offense to Magiguy, but books have limitations. I read Bobo's Modern Coin Magic at least 5 times cover to cover, but many of the moves made more sense once I saw David Roth do it on his Videos.

The books.. you should own them and read them. Buy anything else that supplements that education.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 12, 2008 09:47PM)
So my uncle came over because he knew I was excited to show him the trick. He loved it and he was really proud of me. He never expected me to learn a trick so fast. He asked how I chose such a good trick, I told him from the guys at the Magic Café. He started cracking up!

He gave me a box of brand new cards. There's like 12 or 13 decks.

Ok, so I made him live up to his side of the bargain and show me something else. He showed me how to move a card from top to bottom, and then from bottom to top, while shuffling. Really cool, I didn't even know you could do something like that. I can shuffle regular pretty good I guess.

Something else that was funny, he gave me 10 cards with a # from 1 to 10 and asked if I could remember what card went with each #. He said it was important but wouldn't tell me why.

The not knowing is pretty exciting, but I'll try.

jewels p :)
Message: Posted by: Patrick Differ (Aug 12, 2008 10:47PM)
Keep working with your Uncle. He sounds like a good guy.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Aug 13, 2008 07:34AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-11 19:21, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-11 18:20, Open Traveller wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 18:05, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 17:29, Magiguy wrote:
Another small piece of advice... stick with books.
[/quote]

As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.
[/quote]

Of the three learning modes; visual, auditory or kinesthetic; just which one would you think reading falls into?

For best results, a learner [i]shouldn't[/i] fall wholesale into the mode in which she learns best. There has to be a demand on the learner, or it's just mimicking.
[/quote]

Reading falls into verbal, which you left out of your list. Reading is one of the most difficult methods for learning new fields, since vocabulary skills will be limited, which makes decoding unknown words more difficult. However, once the specialized vocabulary is learned, reading passes the highest information density.

So a new learner should choose the method which causes him/her the most difficulty? Guess that is the way to go to increase frustration and reduce the odds of success.

I have no idea what to make of the notion that knowledge is only worthwhile if hard to obtain.
[/quote]
Julianna's posts indicate she has fine verbal skills (better than many others here), and her vocabulary should be quite adequate for reading and understanding "The Royal Road to Card Magic". If she has to look up a word or two, this may be a plus, as it will help "burn in" the lesson she is working with. (My opinion, of course)
Don
Message: Posted by: molsen (Aug 13, 2008 09:42AM)
I have followed this thread for a while now, and although I have nothing to add to the great advice here, I just want to say how much I enjoy seeing someone coming to the world of magic and taking so much pleasure in it.

Julianna, best of luck to you :)

Michael
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 13, 2008 09:42AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-12 17:28, Open Traveller wrote:
No, a new learner shouldn't choose the method which causes the most difficulty; I didn't say that. What I said is that a learner shouldn't use only the mode that's most comfortable. That's a crippling strategy. One has to keep expanding the boundaries of the comfort zone, and you can't do that by staying in the comfort zone.

"Verbal" isn't a learning mode. It's a skillset. "Reading" is also a skillset. Of the three [i]learning modes,[/i] which are the three I mentioned, which does reading fall into? Verbal falls into "auditory."
[/quote]
Numerous sources list different modes of learning. The three you list are usually broken down into more categories. I prefer to use more categories.

Reading does not fall into auditory unless it is read aloud to you (obviously). Most sources will list reading as visual, which is fine, but reading is much different than learning by by watching a demonstration or a video. Hence I differentiate.

Some people have disabilities/difficulties which cannot be "corrected" by practice. It is a decoding/translation issue. I see it everyday at work. It is a fact. Not sure if this is the case here, but you seem to ignore this fact.

You said there must be a "demand" on the person. Must is a mandatory word. Thus you infer they should not use the method with which they learn the most readily. It is with this statement I most disagree with. Keep in mind most magic texts are written above the high school level.



[quote]
On 2008-08-13 08:34, DStachowiak wrote:
Julianna's posts indicate she has fine verbal skills (better than many others here), and her vocabulary should be quite adequate for reading and understanding "The Royal Road to Card Magic". If she has to look up a word or two, this may be a plus, as it will help "burn in" the lesson she is working with. (My opinion, of course)
Don
[/quote]
I agree on your assessment of the writing skills. I am speaking of the specialized vocabulary, of which none was used. Such as "now display the cards using the Elmsley count". I think a lot of new comers can get frustrated when suggested books which reference other books (are not self-contained). This has always been a pet peeve of mine. If you are going to publish an effect, [b]publish it all![/b] It is ripping off the customer if you do not.

If memory serves, Royal Road does not have this problem.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 13, 2008 12:53PM)
I was looking thru RRTCM, [b]Ha[/b], I picked up on the abbreviation. Didn't make the connection at first. LOL!

How do you guys know what are the good tricks?

I've been practicing shuffling, and moving the card from top to bottom.

It's a lot easier going to the bottom than to the top.

Time to take a break, my girlfriends are here to take me to the pool.

jp
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 13, 2008 02:07PM)
[quote]Numerous sources list different modes of learning. The three you list are usually broken down into more catagories. I prefer to use more categories.
[/quote]
Okay, that's fine, but you're crossing categories, which isn't fine.


[quote]
Reading does not fall into auditory unless it is read aloud to you (obviously). Most sources will list reading as visual, which is fine, but reading is much different than learning by by watching a demonstration or a video. Hence I differentiate.
[/quote]
Okay, but if something is being read [b]to[/b] you, you're not reading. You're listening. Are you being real, or are you just jacking with me?


[quote]
Some people have disabilities/difficulties which cannot be "corrected" by practice. It is a decoding/translation issue. I see it everyday at work. It is a fact. Not sure if this is the case here, but you seem to ignore this fact.
[/quote]
I'm not ignoring this fact, I just don't see why specific cases that are a minority should be brought in as an argument against the general.


[quote]
You said there must be a "demand" on the person. Must is a mandatory word.
[/quote]
Actually, what I wrote is, "There has to be a demand on the learner, or it's just mimicking." While I concede a similar meaning, they're not exactly the same, so your misquoting me doesn't help here. In any event, I think you're over-parsing. What I'm trying to convey is that we have to stretch. You seem to be arguing against that, saying that students/learners must remain firmly in the modes in which they're most comfortable.

Let's imagine the brain, in a metaphorical sense, is a cluster of muscles. By engaging the brain in different activities, we strengthen certain muscles. Now let's imagine you meet a person who has spindly legs but 16-inch biceps. To me, it sounds like you would encourage him to exercise only his biceps. After all, that's what he's always been most comfortable with, and he should follow his natural inclinations.


[quote]
Thus you infer they should not use the method with which they learn the most readily.[/quote]
This is the [b]second[/b] time I'm correcting you on this point, because that's not what I said at all. You're arguing against a position I don't hold.

What I said was that learners shouldn't use [b]only[/b] the mode in which they're most comfortable. I'm surprised you haven't grasped the difference. I don't think our person above should exercise [b]only[/b] his biceps.

And since you're a teacher, you should probably be aware that this is a most incorrect usage of the word "infer."


As an aside, do you know why the Elmsley Count is never taught in any of the routines in [i]Royal Road to Card Magic?[/i]


======

Julianna,

Sorry for derailing your thread. You seem like a delightful person.

Best to you....
Message: Posted by: Pete Legend (Aug 13, 2008 02:16PM)
Awwwwww lol what a sweet thread :) Brings back memories of my first book.I don't perform with cards or do "magic" anymore as I turned to the dark side a long time ago but this thread reminds me why I started :)

Oh by the way Julianna your uncle rocks!

Pete
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 13, 2008 02:56PM)
Normally I would not waste time, but people need to be educated as to education.

[quote]
On 2008-08-13 15:07, Open Traveller wrote:[/quote]

[quote]
Okay, but if something is being read [b]to[/b] you, you're not reading. You're listening. Are you being real, or are you just jacking with me?
[/quote]
Reading is verbal. It is a sub-class under auditory when read to you, and visual when you read it yourself. I prefer to keep reading on its own, since so many learners have problems with it.

And you are the one jacking. Either that, or you do not understand the concept of multi-tier classification schemes. Take your pick.

[quote]
I'm not ignoring this fact, I just don't see why specific cases that are a minority should be brought in as an argument against the general.
[/quote]
Interesting concept, and, while looking on the surface true, is nonetheless totally wrong. My school's student population has about 40% with some sort of learning disability, of which verbal is the majority, with reading being the most prevalent (not sure if that is spelled right-I'll let you check it for me). This school is a multi-county vocational school which draws from about 15 counties and 3 cities, so is pretty average.

[quote]
Actually, what I wrote is, "There has to be a demand on the learner, or it's just mimicking." While I concede a similar meaning, they're not exactly the same, so your misquoting me doesn't help here. In any event, I think you're over-parsing. What I'm trying to convey is that we have to stretch. You seem to be arguing against that, saying that students/learners must remain firmly in the modes in which they're most comfortable.
[/quote]
I did misquote, my error.

However, you are correct. I see no need to move from a person's easiest learning method to a more difficult one, when learning the same material, unless the goal is to strengthen a weakness [b]capable of improvement[/b]. I have no problem decoding difficult text for a multiple stage card trick. However, it is easier for me to view the video, or be shown the proper hand position in person.

For some people, it is not possible to decode the words and make sense of it. Trying is useless. You are putting down these people, whether they are the minority or the majority.

I say majority because I would advance the thesis that the [b]majority[/b] of people learn magic better from personal instruction or DVD instruction (which is personal) than from the written word. I do not believe this thesis is debatable, however you can argue what "better" is (faster, more precise, etc.).

[quote]
Let's imagine the brain, in a metaphorical sense, is a cluster of muscles. By engaging the brain in different activities, we strengthen certain muscles. Now let's imagine you meet a person who has spindly legs but 16-inch biceps. To me, it sounds like you would encourage him to exercise only his biceps. After all, that's what he's always been most comfortable with, and he should follow his natural inclinations.
[/quote]
Let's imagine a quadriplegic being dumped onto the floor and being told he should exercise his muscles, then he could walk. When speaking of a learning disability, that is an appropriate analogy.

I used to have the bias towards books. However, all the material I used to read for hours to figure out, can now be learned in minutes, thanks to the personal instruction DVD's offer. I still read a lot of books, however, if I want to learn a new sleight or move, I want personal instruction (DVD). Each person has their own reason for this bias. I have dropped this bias.
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 13, 2008 03:58PM)
Man, I have to give you credit. You almost had me doubting myself, until I did a search and quickly read up on learning modes again. I couldn't find a single instance of anyone classifying reading as an auditory activity.

Let me see if I understand you correctly:

Reading is sub-classed under the auditory learning mode if someone reads to me. This is true despite the fact that I'm not reading; I'm listening. Further you contend that this is true even though my listening activity doesn't change whether someone is reading to me, speaking to me, telling me a joke or singing a song. If someone does any of the latter three, it's sub-classed differently than if someone reads to me, despite the fact that my passive activity is precisely the same in all four cases.

I hope I have that right. Apparently, I'm thrown into different learning modes not by what I do, but by what other people do and even if I don't change what I'm doing.

Do I have that clear? I ask because it sounds perfectly wrong to me, and I don't think that's because I don't understand multi-tiered classification schemes, since it's never been a problem for me in the past.

You state that your school's student population exhibits about 40% with learning disabilities. That both surprises and concerns me, because 40% is usually well within the range of what we call normality (you took statistics, right?). So, either there is a problem in the population, the upbringing, the teaching methods or...and this is most likely...with how you define "disability." In any of the cases, I don't find it very germane to our discussing whether or not people should make an extra effort or simply do what's easiest.

[quote]I see no need to move from a person's easiest learning method to a more difficult one, when learning the same material, unless the goal is to strengthen a weakness [b]capable of improvement[/b].
[/quote]
Okaaaay. Just for fun, let's list [b]all[/b] the things you said I said that I never said:

[quote]
So a new learner should choose the method which causes him/her the most difficulty? Guess that is the way to go to increase frustration and reduce the odds of success.
[/quote]
I didn't say that.

[quote]
I have no idea what to make of the notion that knowledge is only worthwhile if hard to obtain.
[/quote]
I never suggested that, either.

[quote]
Thus you infer they should not use the method with which they learn the most readily.
[/quote]
Didn't say anything remotely like that.

And now we have:

[quote]
I see no need to move from a person's easiest learning method to a more difficult one...
[/quote]
That thought had never occurred to me, either.

This whole thing would be much easier on everyone if you'd pay attention. I never suggested moving from a person's easiest learning method to a more difficult one. All I said was we shouldn't stay only with what's most comfortable. You continue your habit of reading things into my words that aren't there. The best learning occurs when more than one mode is used at once and in appropriate degrees. Think of it as a "multi-tiered learning strategy."

[quote]
For some people, it is not possible to decode the words and make sense of it. Trying is useless. You are putting down these people, whether they are the minority or the majority.
[/quote]
I don't know why you say I'm putting down anyone. All I'm suggesting is that there's much to be gained from stretching one's self just a little at a time. This doesn't seem like an insult to me. It's also not some great wisdom; it seems fairly fundamental. Frankly, I'm surprised you'd argue against it.

[quote]
I would advance the thesis that the [b]majority[/b] of people learn magic better from personal instruction or DVD instruction (which is personal) than from the written word. I do not believe this thesis is debatable, however you can argue what "better" is (faster, more precise, etc).
[/quote]
I'm not sure what you really mean by "better." Most people find it easier to absorb information from videos than books. Okay. Books require imagination and thinking, and if those aren't part of a person's skill set, they're not. Okay. If they are, though, then books generally produce more impressive outcomes. Personal instruction can beat out both of those -- if you have a good personal instructor. That factor can affect the quality of the outcome pretty strongly.

But where did you read in my comments anywhere in this thread that people should read books over watching videos? That's something else I didn't propose. Here, you seem to be crossing over into conversations you're having with someone else.

But finally, this:
[quote]
Let's imagine a quadriplegic being dumped onto the floor and being told he should exercise his muscles, then he could walk. When speaking of a learning disability, that is an appropriate analogy.
[/quote]
More like a metaphor, really, and a disturbing one. I used a bit of imagery to convey a student who might be overdeveloped in one area and underdeveloped in others. My suggestion was to avoid working only the one area. You, though, apparently prefer to cast your students as completely helpless. Earlier, you wrote that some won't be up to the task and "trying is useless." The first part of that statement is undeniably true; it's the second part that makes me wonder if you should be teaching. Now that I see that you feel comparing them to "quadriplegics" is appropriate, I'm not sure we have much more to discuss. If you truly can't see what's offensive about this, then I'm not sure what to say.

And not that I'm validating your attempt to make a point in any way, but there have been quadriplegics who later learned to walk again...not many, but it's happened, and in [b]every[/b] case, they only got there by exercising their muscles.

To all others, many apologies for the various turns in this now-pointless conversation. I find it best to simply not continue.
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Aug 13, 2008 06:14PM)
Julianna

I believe you are on the right track. You have a great book to begin with and I believe you will have and excellent tutor in your Uncle. You seem willing to practice and that is the most important thing to do. So take your time and do not rush into performing, but do it slowly. I feel the more that you show your Uncle that you are willing to work hard, the more assistance he will give you.

Above all read, as it seems like you enjoy reading.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 13, 2008 06:18PM)
I hear you guys talking about different ways of learning and I don't know anything about magic, (yet), but with dance I can tell you that I learn faster by visually seeing someone doing the steps rather than trying to explain them to me. Guess I'll see what happens with magic.

I'm sure everyone is different though.

jp
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Aug 13, 2008 06:36PM)
Garcia00 and Open Traveller

I believe you both owe this young lady an apology for your rhetorical comments which have nothing to do with "Brand new and don't have a clue", which is the topic of this thread.

Enough said.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 13, 2008 07:01PM)
I'm losing track, oh yeah, so how do you guys know which tricks are the good ones? I know that's probably the dumbest question in the world but I can't help myself.

Forgive me for asking if you think it's dumb!

Hi Michael-thanks for the help, but I don't mind listening to a good argument every now and then! The 'young lady' comment just got you points.

jewels
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 13, 2008 07:33PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-13 19:36, Michaelmagicart wrote:
Garcia00 and Open Traveller

I believe you both owe this young lady an apology for your rhetorical comments which have nothing to do with "Brand new and don't have a clue", which is the topic of this thread.

Enough said.
[/quote]

I already did. Twice.

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Aug 13, 2008 08:05PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-13 20:01, Julianna wrote:
I'm losing track, oh yeah, so how do you guys know which tricks are the good ones? I know that's probably the dumbest question in the world but I can't help myself.

Forgive me for asking if you think it's dumb!

Hi Michael-thanxs for the help, but I don't mind listening to a good argument every now and then! the young lady comment just got you points.

jewels
[/quote]
Julianna, with RRTCM, I'd suggest starting at the first chapter and working your way through to the end. The reason for this is that each chapter works on a specific skill or sleight, and the later chapters build on what was learned earlier. Each chapter teaches a few tricks that will be within your abilities if you have been working your way through in order, and the fun part is that you always have something to perform, even at the start of your learning process.
Almost all the tricks in RRTCM are excellent, with few exceptions. (I can't think of any duds at the moment, but there are probably one or two)
Don
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Aug 13, 2008 08:19PM)
Julianna

My answer would be that a trick is only as good as the performer. The simplest trick in the hands of the right performer can become a miracle. You mentioned two things about yourself. You like to have fun and you take dance. I am assuming you have a bubbly personality, yet the graceful moves of a dancer. Both of these can be incorporated into the way you present your magic, and they will feel natural to you.

Use your imagination to weave a story around what you are doing. Just like learning every step in a dance routine. Then the trick will become "magic".

I was quite happy to hear that your first trick for your Mother amazed her. Believe me your own family is the most difficult to amaze. I would also ask your Uncle for suggestions, I am sure he will be more than willing to help you.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 13, 2008 09:37PM)
Hi again magicart, I really get what your saying. Does anyone do magic to music without talking?

I really like these songs (Just Like Heaven) by The Cure
(Short Skirt Long Jacket) by cake
(Never There) by Cake

I know they are older songs, but I still like 'em.

Back to my question though, does anyone do magic to music without talking?

Sorry for getting off track!

jp


Dstach- I see what you are talking about. Each chapter teaches certain movements, and at the end of the chapter it shows some tricks that use those movements.

Thanks for pointing that out, it's kind of like an end to the means, I think!

jp
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 13, 2008 10:58PM)
Julianna,

Check out my friend broccoli from Japan, I think all of his stuff is to music only!
http://www.youtube.com/user/kienboss
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Aug 14, 2008 05:51AM)
Here is an award winning actdone silently to music: Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk-R6BbsxiY&feature=related
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 14, 2008 07:23AM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-13 19:36, Michaelmagicart wrote:
Garcia00 and Open Traveller

I believe you both owe this young lady an apology for your rhetorical comments which have nothing to do with "Brand new and don't have a clue", which is the topic of this thread.

Enough said.
[/quote]

I believe advising a newcomer as to the best learning medium/method has something to do with this thread's topic. I will apoligize, however, for the bickering.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 14, 2008 10:06AM)
Hey Mickey and Michael, those videos are awesome. Don't know where the coin came from, but that was incredible. Sounded like classical music of some kind, which was nice and soft. I guess regular type pop music, or whatever, wouldn't be good, huh!

garcia- don't worry about it, me and my friends argue sometimes to. Mostly about boys though! LOL

This is a ([b]Thanks[/b]) to everyone here helping me. Keep it coming, I can use it all.

jewels


I've noticed that it's easier to pull off one card at a time when you get to the end, meaning shuffling a card from the bottom to the top.

Getting easier!

jp



So my uncle still won't tell me why he wants me to memorize these 10 cards. He said it should be easy for me since I was really good at the game Concentration when I was younger.

Does anyone know the game Concentration?

I think I have the order now.

Looks like I'm all alone on this board! Doesn't anyone have anything to say?

[b]Lonley Julianna[/b]
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 14, 2008 04:59PM)
What ten cards are they?
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 14, 2008 05:02PM)
The Jack of Spades through the Ace of Clubs, maybe?
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 14, 2008 05:05PM)
Oh, thanks Jaz-

Uuummm- jack of spades, king of clubs, 5 of clubs, 2 of hearts, 9 of spades, ace of spades, 3 of hearts, 6 of clubs, 8 of diamonds, ace of clubs.

That is the order.

jp


Yeah traveller, how did you know?

This is scary.


OMG traveler- get out of my head.


You just creeped me out!

I'm outta here.

jp
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 14, 2008 05:24PM)
Yes, I'm [b]that[/b] good.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 14, 2008 10:22PM)
Ms Jewels,
I think you can do magic to just about any tune so just think of how you want it to be presented! There is a young woman that has some great vids up on YouTube where she mixes magic, music and dance and as I recall, nary a word is spoken! I can't remember her full name but I think her first is Angela so maybe someone else can hook ya up with a site!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 14, 2008 10:23PM)
Juliana,
Your uncle is assisting you to learn something that [b]most[/b] magicians run away from. They think it will be too hard, so they never start the process. I don't want to spoil what your uncle is trying to do, but I will encourage to keep going. You will appreciate his efforts once completed.
I am starting the same learning process, and recognise (as did Traveler) the sequence of cards that your uncle has given you. Keep working on RRTCM, while you learn the sequence from your uncle.
Regards
Mysto
Message: Posted by: konjurer (Aug 14, 2008 11:23PM)
[quote]

edh, you say there are DVD's to see magic? Would it be good for me to see how other people do the tricks?
[/quote]

Juliana,

Welcome to the world of magic!

I really don't want to start a big debate as the books versus DVD debate will rage on forever. However, I completely disagree that books are the best method for a beginner and so it doesn't hurt to hear another opinion. especially since you say you're a visual learner.

Books are great, especially Royal Road. However, you will learn MUCH faster and with far less frustration with a good introductory card magic DVD. Then go back to Royal Road as a great reference.

I would suggest Born to Perform Card Magic by Oz Perlman DVD. It covers many of the basic card sleights in great detail. It starts with how to hold the deck and progresses through many sleights, cuts, flourishes, forces, passes and more. The teaching is really good and Perlman teaches four very, very good routines. If you spend a month or two working through the DVD, you'll have a great foundation for card magic started.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=618

A good DVD will show you the subtle details like angles, timing and real magicians performing for other real people with real reactions. You get to hear the actual patter in the modern English language. You get to see what the trick really looks like under performance conditions. It is very hard to see and hear those things from a book.

You'll be performing much faster and much better starting with DVDs and supplementing your learning with books. Plus you won't go crazy trying to keep Royal Road open as you try to translate a move from the book to your hands!
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 14, 2008 11:43PM)
Julianna,

If you're going to get a DVD, make sure it's because you know you need it. It's an expensive way to learn, and it's very tempting to copy how the magicians are performing something.

I've had the luxury of reading a lot of books and watching a lot of DVDs, but that book you've got right now is the same book I keep coming back to. You're off to a good start, I'd stay with it until you're positive that there's something you need from another source. If you don't know right now, then don't change a thing until you do know.
Message: Posted by: molsen (Aug 14, 2008 11:54PM)
DVDs are a great way of learning, especially when it comes to the basic sleights. However, f you decided to go through it end-to-end in one go (which is not a good idea) you can run through a DVD in an hour or two, whereas reading and working with a book covering the same material will still take days. This means you are tempted to advance faster and may not pay the same amount of detail to learning the subtle details that make the sleights practically undetectable. I think this is why many people recommend using books instead of DVDs, or at least combining the two media. For me, learning from a book, and then polishing the details with a DVD works well, YMMV. Just something to keep in mind if you decide to get some DVDs one day.

As for doing magic to music, there was a guy posting a few videos here, where he did card tricks matching the lyrics of songs: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=264868&forum=41

Gary Ouellet did a dream of aces to music, searching here on the Café should bring up more information. David Copperfield later did grandfather aces, also worth a look. You can find both on youtube for sure. Don't fall for the temptation of watching videos there that teach how tricks are done. Almost all of them are teaching the tricks very poorly, and you will be performing a very inferior version if you learn something from youtube.

As you get more into magic you will notice that magicians have a very deep respect for eachother, especially when it comes to who invented what, and giving proper credit for those inventions. This, plus the issue of exposing secrets to the public, is what most magicians dislike strongly about youtube.

Apart from technique, both mechanics and presentational, there is a lot of 'culture' to be learned when it comes to magic. This may seem less appealing to you in the beginning, but as you get more involved, you will probably learn to appreciate it.

Oh, the 10 cards your uncle gave you are just the beginning. Eventually you will be able to perform some truly amazing effects with this principle, where the only possible explanation really does seem impossible to the audience. What he is teaching you is a very strong principle that can literally accomplish hundreds of tricks, not just one trick. I agree with others, your uncle is a very cool guy, and you can trust him to give you a rock solid education in card magic.

Michael
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Aug 15, 2008 12:04AM)
Welcome Juliana,

Lots of good advice here, pick what works for you. And once you've got the ten cards memorized, you can freak out your uncle by telling him you're ready for the ten of spades and the five of hearts.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Aug 15, 2008 12:20AM)
Juliana:

PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you some material and suggestions.

Steven Youell
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 15, 2008 10:19AM)
Traveler--You owe me an apology-

For what, you might ask!

[b]For keeping me up all night, thanks a lot[/b].

I wasn't gonna come back, but I admit, my curiosity got the best of me, and I couldn't stay away.

So now I'm back

But Traveler, you still owe me.

jewels
Message: Posted by: Open Traveller (Aug 15, 2008 11:32AM)
May I respectfully tender my apology. What your uncle is teaching you is a standard order known to many magicians. If you keep with it and learn it inside and out -- not just the order of the cards, but where every card in the order lies to where you can instantly visualize it as well as you can the alphabet -- you'll be ahead of 90% of the magicians out there.

Good luck.
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 15, 2008 01:48PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-15 00:43, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Julianna,

If you're going to get a DVD, make sure it's because you know you need it. It's an expensive way to learn, and it's very tempting to copy how the magicians are performing something.
[/quote]
I am not so sure it is that much more expensive than books. What does the Daryl Card series cost in comparison to "Card College"? Being able to pop the disk in my portable and have Daryl show me [b]exactly[/b] how he does a given move, is priceless.

However, if you go with single trick disks it can get expensive.
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 15, 2008 01:53PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-15 14:48, garcia00 wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-15 00:43, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Julianna,

If you're going to get a DVD, make sure it's because you know you need it. It's an expensive way to learn, and it's very tempting to copy how the magicians are performing something.
[/quote]
I am not so sure it is that much more expensive than books. What does the Daryl Card series cost in comparison to "Card College"? Being able to pop the disk in my portable and have Daryl show me [b]exactly[/b] how he does a given move, is priceless.

However, if you go with single trick disks it can get expensive.
[/quote]
I see what you're saying, and if you're in a situation where you know what you need (be it book, DVD, workshop, etc.) then of course you spend what you have to spend. That said, in general, DVDs in general are an expensive mode of learning, and it's easy to get out of hand.
Message: Posted by: splice (Aug 15, 2008 03:13PM)
Please, everyone, let's beat the dead horse in a different thread, shall we?

Julianna, your best bet is to listen to your uncle. He isn't steering you wrong so far, and he has your best interest at heart. Once you have the basics down you will be drawn to books, or DVD, or magazines, or perhaps to seek out other magicians and learn directly from them. Regardless of how you learn, none of us become masters in a week or two. Enjoy the trip and don't let others steer you where you don't want to go.
Message: Posted by: jldemsky (Aug 15, 2008 04:58PM)
[quote]....I really get what your saying. Does anyone do magic to music without talking?
[/quote]
Yep, [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXOPNfrNmn4[/url], follow her.


P.S. Sorry to ask, if it doesn't bother you, how old are you?

-JL
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Aug 15, 2008 05:30PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-15 16:13, splice wrote:
Please, everyone, let's beat the dead horse in a different thread, shall we?

Julianna, your best bet is to listen to your uncle. He isn't steering you wrong so far, and he has your best interest at heart. Once you have the basics down you will be drawn to books, or DVD, or magazines, or perhaps to seek out other magicians and learn directly from them. Regardless of how you learn, none of us become masters in a week or two. Enjoy the trip and don't let others steer you where you don't want to go.
[/quote]
Excellent advice splice. Julianna, it is evident that your Uncle is guiding you in the right direction. I would apply myself to learn what he is teaching you as it is apparent he wants to insure that you are serious about magic, by what he gave you to learn. Show him that you are serious, and I am sure he will be able to mentor you in your study of magic. At the same time, continue with your first book. Learn everything you can from it. Above all practice, practice, practice. When confronted with something you may not understand, ask your Uncle about it. I am sure that he will be willing to explain it to you on a one to one basis.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 15, 2008 08:16PM)
Hi Magicart, that video link was [b]amazing![/b] Can't believe my eyes.

Steven, did you get my e-mail address?

Molsen, thanks for all the advice. I like John Mayer, the video was great.


Posted: Aug 15, 2008 9:17pm
---------------------------------
Traveler, I accept your apology- what girl doesn't like to be mystified anyway. I still like you!


jp


Posted: Aug 16, 2008 11:03am
---------------------------------
Splice-
I hope you guys don't think you wasted your time with me. I understand what some of you are saying but I'm a little lost with others and don't know how to respond. I know I'm new but I don't have anyone else to share with. My uncle told me not to share the secrets with anyone because they would "lose their feeling of wonder" and he didn't want me to be the one to take that from them. I realize now that I can do a trick for my friends and then its over. (But it's a lot of fun doing it). I can't share the how, or why, so I guess that's why my uncle turned me to this website.

I guess I'll continue to write in with my experiences as long as there's someone listening.

How come nobody else writes about their own experiences?

jp


Posted: Aug 17, 2008 7:01pm
---------------------------------
Curtis,

My uncle stopped by today and quizzed me on the 10 card order. I got them right, so before he could say anything else, I told him I think I'm ready for the 10 of spades, I forgot the other card you mentioned. He laughed and said that I must have been on the Café.

He called me a couple of names, and then gave me 10 more cards to remember. Called it punishment for cheating!

Starting to seem like studying for a test at school. LOL

jewels
Message: Posted by: splice (Aug 18, 2008 08:15AM)
Not at all Julianna, I don't think anyone is wasting their time with you. I do think some people are talking at each other rather than encouraging you, which I do find sad. It shouldn't really matter which way is "best" and who thinks so, what I think really matters is that you have a good guide to help you along. Your uncle seems like a good person to learn from.

Work hard on your current assignment and it will pay off in the future. It's a lot of hard work, but nothing that is worth it comes easy. Next time you see your uncle you'll be ready for the queen of diamonds and the 9 cards that come after it, and you'll be more than halfway to a very valuable tool for magic.
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 18, 2008 11:47PM)
Hey Juliana,
Please keep us updated on your progress. On my behalf, I love reading about your enjoyment as you learn the magic art. For (perhaps) many of us, our memories of this experience of wonder has faded over time. In a vicarious way, we are re-living that experience through you!

How are you progressing with the overhand shuffle from RRTCM? Is it becoming easier? Can you move the card from top to bottom of the deck without looking at the deck? Can you do it while chatting to someone else? Those are indications that you are ready to move on within the book.

All the Best
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 19, 2008 10:08AM)
Thanks spice, you seem really nice.
Didn't realize it at first, but that rhymes! LOL

Everyone has been very helpful.

I'll write back later, goin' to the pool. Don't have to many days left.

jewels.



Hi Mysto,

you don't know how good that makes me feel that someone actually cares. you're a sweety! So much happened to me today and I don't know where to start. get back to that later!

I think I've been spending more time on remembering the cards then doing the shuffles. The reason why is because some guys here say that if I learn the cards then I will be able to do hundreds of tricks. I still do the shuffling though.

The shuffling is a lot easier now. I can shuffle a card to the bottom and then to the top pretty good now.
I haven't tried doing it without looking, let me try. Going to the bottom without looking is easy now cause I just pull the top card off and it's already in place and I just keep pulling other cards on top of it.

Not looking and bringing the bottom card to the top is harder than looking at the cards. I'll have to try more without looking. I'll try again when I'm just sitting around talking to my mom.

Thanks again for asking Mysto,

I'm gonna go practice but I'll be back sometime tonight.

jp
Message: Posted by: Turk (Aug 19, 2008 07:37PM)
Julianna,

You've got one great uncle, and,...one great teacher. He is keeping your interest up and helping you when you need it. He is challenging you and keeping you focused while at the same time not spoon-feeding you. You are being left alone to learn (and explore) at your own pace. Your uncle is drawing circles and letting you have the freedom to walk anywhere within the present circle's boundaries and then, as you progress, he expands the boundries and thereby rewards you, keeps your interest up and continues to challenge you.

Between Royal Road to Card Magic and the ten card packet(s) memorization, you are onto two very special resources.

Enjoy the journey, and,...listen to your uncle.

(Sure wish I had had an uncle mentor like that when I was first starting out in magic.)

Best regards,

Mike

P.S. Please let us know when your uncle has advised you that the memorization exercise has ended. I'm curious to see where he takes you next in that endeavor.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 19, 2008 11:32PM)
Hi Turk

Thanx for taking the time for me, your awesome! Such nice comments.

I needed that, had such a bad day today.

So listen, I've been doing the trick (do as I do) for just about everyone. I've been told to do it as often as possible by some people here. I did it for my girlfriends the other day and they freaked out! so today my other friend Mary, (her boyfriend) heard about the trick and wanted to see it. I showed him and he was
like "[b]No way[/b]" he couldn't get over it. He was giving me a hug and then Mary came in. She started to accuse me of fooling around with Steve, her boyfriend. I would never do anything like that, but she wouldn't listen to anything! I ended up walking home with my other friends.

It doesn't end there!

My boyfriend called me yelling at me for what happened. I told him nothing happened. He wouldn't listen either, he just kept yelling. He says I'm totally different since I started playing with my "gay cards". That's how he put it. He's only happy if I'm paying total attention to him.

He said some really hurtful things to me!

I finally told him it was over between us...I felt bad at first, but the more I think about it, I'm glad it's over because now I can do the things that make me happy right now.

My mom was right about him all along.

???**[b]has anyone had a similar situation in their life because of spending too much time with magic[/b]**???

Well, the good news is the trick was a hit, again!

Please answer the question above.

Thanks for listening,

jewels
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Aug 19, 2008 11:47PM)
Real friends accept you for who you are. Real friends don't ever call you by rude epithets that are hurtful and show their lack of good qualities.

You ditched a bad boyfriend. If card magic was a part of that, can't you see it was all for the best?

My first wife loved magic, she can still do a one-handed shuffle. Wife number two is very supportive. When someone loves you, they'll be just as enthusiastic about your magic as you are, because it is part of you.

So to answer your question, no I haven't but I think you can learn from your situation.
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 20, 2008 12:25AM)
Hey Juliana,
I agree with Kent. Real friends like the whole of you, "warts and all" rather than wanting you to change to suit them.

If your boyfriend can't allow you to develop as a person, by expanding your character, and learning new skills, then he would probably be very restrictive in other aspects of your life.

If my girlfriend made me choose between her and magic, magic would win, and I would continue to entertain people with it!

All the Best
Baz
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 20, 2008 01:23AM)
Both the gal pal and now ex BF sound like the type ya just don't need in your life Ms Jewels!
Keep in mind that [b]balance[/b] is soooooooooo important in everything ya do! I totally understand becoming obsessed or going over board with something especially when you first discover a new passion! Fortunately for me my bride of almost 3 decades is the most supportive and easy going woman I've ever known!

I am thrilled that you have taken to cards the way you have! I'm so pleased that your Uncle is guiding you and as you must know by now, you have a pretty good cheering section right here on the Café!

A few things I do want to suggest: School and studies priority numero uno! Honor and respect for your parents and sibs always! Job and/or chores come before magic (There is always time for practice if you stay organized)! As charming as you appear via this forum I highly doubt the BF situation will ever be a problem and IMO the ex blew it and it's HIS loss! BTW, my youngest son is good looking, charming, honest, hard working collage student and musician that will be a heck of a catch once he finishes his degree! Hint, hint! LOL

Keep it real, study, work hard and [b]have fun![/b]

Cheers,

Mick
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 20, 2008 12:39PM)
Hi guys, thanks so much for your support. You would think that someone who is close to you would be as supportive as you guys.

He called today and said he was sorry and didn't want to break up but I told him that it is better this way. It would never be the same.

(Sometimes you just can't take back the words).

All right all ready! Enough.

Mysto, I like that (warts and all) that's tooo funny.

Mickey, you're right, schools coming soon and then the homework OMG! What kind of music does your son play? Wink wink.

Kent, thanks for your kind words.

Going to my other friends house today, gonna show her father the trick.

I'll let you know later how it went.

jewels


Posted: Aug 20, 2008 9:16pm
-----------------------------
Hi everyone,

So I showed the (Do As I Do) trick to my friend's father today, and he loved it. He said it was really good! One thing though, he wanted to see more and asked if I knew any others. Told him, "sorry I don't," but he'll be one of the first to see the next one I learn.

My uncle stopped by today, and wanted to see how my shuffling was coming along. He said it was getting better, but I still needed practice getting the bottom card to the top. He gave me a little secret to make it easier. Let's see if I can explain it.

Ok, when the card is on the bottom, and you want to get it to the top.

Use your right thumb to separate the bottom card from the rest of the pack. There should be a little gap.
Start shuffling and when you get to the bottom card its easy to (single out) as he called it, the bottom card.

Wow, can't believe something so small makes such a big difference!

I can get the bottom card on top by itself now every time, and without looking.

Anybody else do it this way?

Talk to me please. (I did say please).

jp
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 20, 2008 10:38PM)
Hey Juliana,

Congratulations on the progress. You are a very lucky individual. You have a mentor, who will let you learn until you hit a 'wall', then assist you to overcome that obstacle. Many magicians learnt only from books, and did not have someone to point out the simple steps that make 'such a big difference'. Keep up the practice (in balance rf Mickey's post). You will continue to hit the 'walls', and then your uncle can show you these little knacks to simplify things!

We learn best when we know that we don't know, and [b]want[/b] to learn. If your uncle had told you this knack at the beginning, you might not have properly understood, or taken it in. Once he knew, that you knew that you didn't know, he could show you the secret!

What trick do you plan to learn now? You will need something to take back to your friend's dad, and you can't keep showing the same trick to your friends over and over again.

How's the memorising of the cards going?

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 21, 2008 12:50PM)
Hi again Mysto-

Looks like your becoming one of my best friends here.

That's funny, because I asked him why didn't he just show me that from the beginning. He didn't have much to say after that.

I'm not sure which trick to work on next.

Do you have any suggestions? Make it an easier type trick though.

Thanks,
jp
Pick a good trick from RRTCM. I don't know what's good or bad!
Message: Posted by: Bibbed (Aug 21, 2008 12:53PM)
From RRTCM, I nominate Design for Laughter. You have to be able to glide to do it, but it's a simple sleight to learn. The trick gets great audience reactions.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 22, 2008 04:03PM)
Hi Mysto

Hey, I've got all 20 cards memorized now! Seems like it took forever. My uncle said he's coming over tonight, so I will go over it with him. Not sure what's next!

bibbed- I read that trick and it sounds really good. I haven't practiced the glide move yet though, didn't read enough about it yet. Still working on the other 2 things.

C ya,
jp
Message: Posted by: SilentTuba (Aug 22, 2008 04:42PM)
Julianna,

As has been stated before, the book you have is a great one. Just make sure you tackle the moves taught in each chapter one at a time...learn them well before you move on!

I like to think of sleights like scales in music...they're the building blocks, the foundations. They're not neccessarily fun on their own, but it's very important that you master them. To quote a friend, they're like musical (or, in this case, magical) broccoli....you may not like it, but it's good for you.

As for the books vs. DVDs thing...personally, I like books. I'm an avid reader, so picking up a book and trying to learn from it comes naturally to me. I see this in some of my students...they'll come in for a lesson having taught themselves 2-3 extra pages in their lesson book, just because they felt like it. Other students are different...they could read the book and stare at a fingering chart dozens of times, but not understand it. It isn't until they see (and hear) me show them how to do something that it finally clicks for them. Personally, I think a good balance of both is what you really need...the books are there to provide the knowledge, but the video (or, even better, live teacher) is there to demonstrate, check that you're on the right track, and correct mistakes you are making. You seem to have that in your uncle, which is the perfect formula for success (along with plenty of good practice...which is another thread in and of itself...)

Good luck!!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 23, 2008 12:59PM)
Hey tuba- thanx for the post. every bit of information helps a lot.

talked to my uncle yesterday and went over the 20 cards. he said that I was doin great and gave me another 10 cards. he mentioned that at the rate I'm moving I will be able to put this thing to use about the middle of next month. not sure if I totally understand though!

he showed my friend me and my mom a really cool trick! I was like, come on! theres no way he could've got the cards right, but he did. it was actually a pretty awesome trick. he told me that by next month I will be able to do that exact trick. this remembering thing just got a lot more interesting.

that really got me going, if I'm going to be able to do that kind of a trick I'm going to learn the next 10 cards faster, I HOPE!

If anyones interested, just let me know and I will explain the trick that he did.

jewels
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 23, 2008 02:29PM)
Julianna,

If you're going to use the technique that your uncle is currently trying to teach you, you'd better get to work on mastering the technique taught in chapter 1. You'll understand why when you get to a specific section, but before you can do that you'll want to do everything else leading up to it.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 23, 2008 06:28PM)
Hi Andrew,

what technique taught in chapter 1???

jp
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Aug 23, 2008 06:37PM)
Julianna,

The whole chapter is basically about one general subject. Work through the entire chapter from the beginning, and when you get to the technique I'm hinting at, you'll know it.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 23, 2008 07:13PM)
Andrew,

Oh, so your talking about chapter 1 in rrtcm!

got it, sorry but I didn't understand from ur 1st post

thanx for clearing that up,

jewels
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 23, 2008 09:09PM)
Hey Julianna,

Its awesome how your Uncle is teaching and mentoring you. I hope you keep at it and work hard. I hope to hear more of your progress as you go through RRTCM and what your Uncle teaches. I never had a mentor so your lucky. I haven't been doing magic for long so its inspiring to hear how excited you are about magic. Makes me excited as well, because it reminds me of how I was when I first started and learn my first trick, which was from RRTCM. If you have any questions feel free to message me or anyone here.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 24, 2008 10:01AM)
Hi again Kaneda-

yeah, I'm lucky I have him to help me. plus everyone here is helping a lot.

keneda, how long have you been doing magic? how far along are u?

Jewels
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 24, 2008 12:57PM)
I been doing magic off and on for maybe a year, now that I think about it. I don't really know how far along I am. I am pretty far I guess in a sense of what I can do and know. I am actually branching myself out to coin magic and only working on a few card effects, so I can mix the two. I am learning new things everyday, but I seem to pick things up rather fast mostly b/c I have all the time in the world I can ask for to practice. From when I wake up to when I go to sleep its mostly practicing maybe trying to learn something new ect ect ect.
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 24, 2008 08:52PM)
Hey Juliana,

I'm back after a weekend without internet access - it was horrible! I would suggest trying "Topsy Turvy Cards" and "Poker Player's Picnic" (i think?). These tricks are both found in chapter 1 of RRTCM, and utilise the shuffle control that you are learning. As you work through the chapter, try each trick several times, with different friends. You will find that some tricks 'work' for you and others do not. That's part of the joy of magic, working out which tricks suit your performing style.

Enjoy the journey. Don't try to rush the memorising of the cards. This is the first step of something fabulous, and your uncle will guide you well.

Can you describe what happened when your uncle performed for you? Don't explain 'how' the trick worked, just a description of what you observed. eg "I picked a card, he shuffled it into the deck, then it appeared in his wallet."

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 24, 2008 10:20PM)
Nice to hear from you again Mysto-

omg, it's terrible when there is no internet. I feel ur pain. I will answer you back sometime tomorrow.
I have to get some things together for school. Cant believe it's starting already

glad to have you back.

jewels
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 25, 2008 01:59AM)
Hey Julianna,

I only have internet access at work atm. I'm hoping to have it fixed at home in the next few days... Don't forget to do your homework first - like Micky said - then practice and memorise those cards.

Speak to you tomorrow.

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 25, 2008 06:51PM)
Hey Juliana,
How was your first day back at school?

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: garcia00 (Aug 25, 2008 06:55PM)
My first day back was today as well. Of course, I am not at the receiving end....whatever that means!

Regardless, it is week 1...so it is Hundy 500/slow burn/extreme burn time.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 25, 2008 10:49PM)
Hi Mysto-

school was fine I guess, didn't do much. gotta get used to it again.

Hey, let me tell you about the trick, I almost forgot.

so we each cut a packet of cards and remembered the card we cut to. then we shuffled the packets and then shuffled all the cards together. he took the cards and pulled out 3 cards and they were the selections.

I couldn't believe it

gotta tell u, it gave me a little bit of the creeps!

Garcia I don't know WHAT your talking about. I'm lost!

jewels
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 25, 2008 11:56PM)
Hey Julianna,

Garcia mentioned three tricks by their commercial names. They would be familiar to most magi who have some years of experience. I'm guessing that these are the tricks he(?) will be using on his students at school this week. Perhaps, he has a schedule of tricks for each week of the school year, so that he does not repeat a trick to each class?

All these tricks are (I think) bill switch type tricks. For example, he shows four $1.00 bills, folds them in half, then unfolds them, and they have become four $50.00 notes. Then they are changed back to $1.00 bills again!

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 26, 2008 12:09AM)
My wife does a similar trick..... I hand her a $50 and SOMETIMES I a get a couple $1's back! She does a complete vanish of a $100!
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 26, 2008 02:04AM)
That's not a magic trick! That's just life! <grin>

Baz
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 26, 2008 08:42AM)
Cheers mate!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 26, 2008 06:42PM)
Mickey that is toooooo funny, I'm still laughing!

makin it hard to type. LOL! (Good Times)

Hi Mysto,

I pm'd you my e-mail address and thanx for clearing up what garcia wrote. didn't have a clue!

Had homework today, ALREADY, can you believe it. don't worry, I finished it!

jewels
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 26, 2008 09:41PM)
I forgot to tell you guys,

I drew little cards, the ones I need to memorize, along the outside of my art folder. now I can go over the cards while I'm in class.My art teacher noticed the folder and asked about the drawings. just said it was something that came to me. She said it was a good job! I like her a lot, she is really cute

jewels
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 27, 2008 05:14PM)
Hi Everyone,

so I'm still working on the shuffling. I am now able to get the top card 2nd from the bottom and back to the top. that was the next step in rrtcm so now I will move on from there.

I was practicing moving the top card to the bottom and back to the top and then moving it 2nd from the bottom and then to the top.

getting easier all the time,

Hey Mysto- I didn't get an e-mail from you yet.

c ya
jewels
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 27, 2008 06:11PM)
Hey, How did you guys get ur photo on here?

Is there a way I can add my photo?

jp
Message: Posted by: Larry Barnowsky (Aug 27, 2008 06:35PM)
Click the FAQ link next to search or go to
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/faq.php#avatar
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 27, 2008 10:27PM)
Thanx larry,

the smileys are cool. I'll try and use one

:napping:

gotta go, c ya guys tomorrow!

jp
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 28, 2008 06:08PM)
Hey Julianna,

How are you going with the memorisation? Do you have the 30 cards done? Are you ready for the next lot from your uncle?

Did you show that trick to your mum? How did she react?

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 28, 2008 10:14PM)
Hey Mysto,

I did the trick to my mom tonight and when she turned the card over she was like, Oh my God! and threw the card on the table. It was so funny! Thanx so much for sending the trick to me.

I think I have the 30 cards memorized pretty good now. it helps to have them drawn on my folder. (I do still listen in class, 'really'). I will see my Uncle either tomorrow night or on Saturday. I am going to show him the trick that I did for my mom tonight.

jewels
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 28, 2008 11:02PM)
Fantastic!

I hope it 'fries' your uncle as well!

Baz
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 29, 2008 10:09AM)
Hey Julianna

Glad to hear your mom loved the trick. Your uncle will like it as well. Keep working on memorizing those cards, even test yourself on it just to make sure you know it.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 29, 2008 05:50PM)
Hi Guys- HOORAY! ITS THE WEEKEND. and no school monday.

isn't that cool, just started and already have a day off! gotta luv it.

I called my uncle and told him to get his butt over here so I can show him the new trick that Mysto showed me. can't wait! I'll be back later to tell you how it went.

Excited Julianna :)
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 29, 2008 06:42PM)
Lookin forward to the update Ms Jewels!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 29, 2008 09:38PM)
Hi again Mickey- I thought you left me, haven't heard from you lately. I still think of ur post and it cracks me up. that was soooo funny!

so I did Mysto's trick for my uncle. Theres GOOD news n BAD news!

the good news is that he really liked it and my mom watched again to. he was happy to see that I was learning some things and getting information from others.

the bad news is he knew that trick Mysto! No big deal though, it was fun doing it again and he played along. my mom still doesn't know whats going on. LOL! she's hilarious.

Hey Mysto- he explained another way to end the trcick, if ur interested I'll let you know what it is.

Oh Yeah, almost forgot to tell you guys, I passed my 30 card test, do you know what I got for my efforts, 12 more cards, OMG R U kidding me! that's what I said. I asked him if he was playing a CRUEL JOKE on me.
he told me that the 12 cards was the end and after I memorized them he would teach me some really fun magic.

He showed me another freaky trick and told me to be patient and soon I would be able to do it.

Hope I have space on my folder for the last 12 cards. been keeping it out of my moms sight.

Thanx for listening everyone

Wizard I really do like those quotes! a lot to think about

Kaneda when will you have the video ready?


Jewels
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Aug 29, 2008 09:57PM)
I am not sure when I will have it ready, ends up I might have to change everything but I might just do a video of what I have so far

Interesting concepts I have going on tho.
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Aug 29, 2008 11:17PM)
I'll let you in on a secret. It's a card trick hardly anybody knows about, and I feel like I am losing out passing on this little gem to you... It's called the 21 card trick. Hardly anyone knows about it so keep this quiet, I beg you! I don't want every Joe Schmoe out there with access to a deck of cards thinking they're magicians doing this little MIRACLE!
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 30, 2008 12:25AM)
Hey Julianna,

Send me an email, about the new ending. I'm not sure if you're allowed to give too much away on these boards, for fear of 'exposure' of secrets.

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 30, 2008 09:28AM)
Hi Mysto-

O.K. I'll send you an e-mail.

Hey Joey- why would you let ME in on the 21 card trick? I'm as Joe Schmoe as it gets!

So when are you gonna explain it to me? I'm interested!

jp
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 30, 2008 06:49PM)
Hi Guys,

hey mysto I have an idea- would it be a good idea to do the trick that you sent to me (devistation) and then, right after that do the trick (do as I do). now I have 2 tricks to do.

please let me know as soon as possible.

Joey, you still haven't explained the 21 card trick!

jewels
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Aug 30, 2008 07:16PM)
Jewels,
I think Joey was messin with you! The 21 card trick is usually the one and only trick someone learned then gave up on magic but does (really poorly) when they are drunk and trying to impress! It's kind of a joke among card people!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Joey Stalin (Aug 30, 2008 09:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-30 20:16, MickeyPainless wrote:
Jewels,
I think Joey was messin with you! The 21 card trick is usually the one and only trick someone learned then gave up on magic but does (really poorly) when they are drunk and trying to impress! It's kind of a joke among card people!

Mick
[/quote]

*taps nose*

I thought I was laying the sarcasm on pretty thick when I wrote my previous post, lol. The fact is that practically every Joe Schmoe out there, and their uncle knows the 21 card trick.
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 31, 2008 01:48AM)
Hey JP,

I would suggest trying it the other way. Perform 'Do as I do', then, perform 'Devastation'. Try it your way as well. See which 'works' better for you. Have you looked at the tricks I suggested from RRTCM? (You will find the suggestion earlier in this thread.) You could do those two tricks, then 'Do as I do', then perhaps, 'Devastation'.

Try it out, have some fun, and don't forget to enjoy yourself along the way! <grin>

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 31, 2008 12:19PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-30 00:17, Joey Stalin wrote:
I'll let you in on a secret. It's a card trick hardly anybody knows about, and I feel like I am losing out passing on this little gem to you... It's called the 21 card trick. Hardly anyone knows about it so keep this quiet, I beg you! I don't want every Joe Schmoe out there with access to a deck of cards thinking they're magicians doing this little MIRACLE!
[/quote]

Hi Mickey- Thanx for watching out for me.

Joey, you got me, but I guess I'm easily taken. LOL! My uncle explained the trick to me and the more I think about it. that was a really funny post! At least now I can appreciate it. remember though sarcasm only works on people that understand the situation. I am like the person standing outside of the inside conversation.

but hey, it's really funny!

jewels
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 31, 2008 05:42PM)
Hi Mysto-

alright, I will try it the other way. gonna see my cousin tonight she's the other girl in the photo, I will try both on her.

I haven't checked out the other tricks yet. I started reading the Topsy Turvy trick but got side tracked and I haven't been back. I have been working hard on memorizing the cards and shuffling!

hope everyone's having a good weekend!

jewels
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Aug 31, 2008 05:58PM)
Hi Jewels,

Glad to hear that you're hanging in there and continuing your magic studies.
I'm guessing that school will slow those studies down but school does come first.

So, which one is the 'other girl' and which is you?
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 31, 2008 08:28PM)
Hey Jaz,
I'm going out on a limb here. My guess is that Julianna is the brunette, and her cousin is the blonde. I have a 50% chance of being right. It's better odds than at a casino!

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Aug 31, 2008 10:02PM)
Hi Jaz and Mysto-

Oh Mysto, you would've walked away from the casino with a lot less money. I am the blonde and the brunette is my cousin. it took forever to figure out how to get the photo up but I finally got it. I'll get a new one later.

Why mysto, do you prefer brunettes? she is downstairs right now, just came up to check on some post. I'll talk in a little bit.

jp
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Aug 31, 2008 11:58PM)
I should have used equivoque! What I should have said was:

"Julianna is the beautiful one, and her cousin is the pretty one."

If I had said that, without mentioning hair colour, I might have been safe! <grin>

Baz
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 01:04AM)
Hey Mysto-

I'm blushing right now. :)

don't mean to break the mood but I did the 2 tricks for my cousin tonight and she really liked them.
I did what you said. the 1st trick was (do as I do) and then (devastation). she was like Oh My God! she wanted to see it again but then I did devastation and when it was over she asked, (get this), if I was able to read minds or something! what a funny question. I just started laughing and then she friend slapped me.

I did (do as I do) again for her and she still couldn't believe it. she had no idea, of course I had no idea when I first saw a trick so I know the feeling.

Thanx again guys for listening to my babble

jewels :dance:
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Sep 1, 2008 02:31AM)
Hey Julianna,

Check out the email I sent you. In the email, there is a trick that will make your cousin really think you can mess with her mind!
Try it out, then let me know what reaction you got from it!

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: a brown 1968 (Sep 1, 2008 04:03AM)
Hello Julianna,

To offer one piece of advice hard learnt by myself. Really focus and concentrate when practicing, have an aim in mind always before starting. Twenty minutes of quality time will prove more beneficial than two hours of dabbling and playing. Practice should be as much fun as performing, if it becomes a chore take a brake.

best regards

Andy
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 11:57AM)
Hi Mysto-

I emailed you, I got the trick. it's really funny how things work!
(it even fooled me on the 2nd card and I was practicing the trick). LOL!!

Has anyone ever fooled themselves while practicing a trick or is it only me? Again, probably another silly question.

Hi A Brown- thanx for the advice, it hasn't become a chore yet, magic is so much fun!
everyone here is making it fun.

talk again soon,
Jewels
Message: Posted by: a brown 1968 (Sep 1, 2008 12:38PM)
Pg 200 of RRTCM - Mountebank miracle - fooled me several times when I first practice the effect.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 1, 2008 12:52PM)
Great new pic Ms Jewels! Keep in mind that on top of all the other things I told you about my son, as of yesterday he now lives less than a mile from the beach! ;)

Mick
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 02:21PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-01 13:38, a brown 1968 wrote:
Pg 200 of RRTCM - Mountebank miracle - fooled me several times when I first practice the effect.
[/quote]

thanx andy for me not being the only one to be fooled alone. and also having the courage to admit it. you know admitting it is the 1st step to the cure. LOL!!

Mysto & Jaz- I hope the new photo clears it up.

Mickey ur too funny!

jewels
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Sep 1, 2008 03:04PM)
It cleared things up. Thanks. :)
Message: Posted by: silverking (Sep 1, 2008 03:38PM)
I don't buy this thread, or "jewels" for a New York minute.

Jerry?
Message: Posted by: Andrew H. (Sep 1, 2008 04:55PM)
Check out Ammars easy to master card dvds...
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 1, 2008 05:19PM)
Lol...
I'm with you... silver.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 1, 2008 05:53PM)
I'm lost!
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 1, 2008 06:41PM)
No harm no foul Mickey...
If my suspicions are correct... I'm thinking some bored dude just had a little fun getting a bunch of men to respond to his 'girlish' side.

And quickly I might add...
Imagine Jewel was a dude (which is likely)... and signed on as one.
Do you think this thread would already be 6 pages? for a newbie?

Thanks for the laughs Jewel! and... nice avatar!!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 07:22PM)
Some people told me I wouldn't be taken serious if I put up a photo. I took it down now

I'm sorry you don't believe me scody, but yes I am a high school student and I hope this is my last year, if things go good. LOL!! it seemed that you guys were interested in me and what was going on so I kept writing in.

my father is not around anymore so my uncle is all I have and it's nice to share things with him. maybe he thought it would keep my mind off of things learning magic.

anyway, its nice that I made some friends in the meantime!

jp
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Sep 1, 2008 07:30PM)
I am intrigued by scody and silverking's opinion, and personally disagree with their perspective. However, even if they are correct, does it change anything that has been written on this thread?

If someone has been having a laugh at our expense, does that matter? No secrets have been exposed, and thoughtful advice suitable for any beginner has been dispensed.

If they are incorrect, posting their opinion may make the person leave the Café, and lose any benefit of interacting with other magi.

So I ask, "What benefit is there in sharing these doubts with the community?"

Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 1, 2008 07:47PM)
[quote]Some people told me I wouldn't be taken serious if I put up a photo.[/quote]
I ain't gonna fight it... it's cool... but come on!! Who told you that? Who would have told you that? Smokin hot broads (like your last avatar) don't post their glam shots unless they are tryin to prove they are smokin hot. Smokin hot 18 year olds don't have anything better to do then hang out on a geeky magic forum changing their avatars? Have fun with it brotha, it's a fun experiment. Of course I'll get slammed by a couple of the others here... but you and I know what's up :)

[quote]"What benefit is there in sharing these doubts with the community?"[/quote]
Hoaxes are a waste of time. If I'm wrong and the he/she gets offended... he/she probably doesn't have the fortitude to stick around anyway.

Look at the kid gloves everybody used in this thread. God bless all you guys... but man, it's sexist that this kind of help wouldn't have gone to a dude newbie as well.

The onion method... or the "mark lewis is buying the Café"... those are all deterrents... fun sometimes, but really... deterrents.

By the way... I'm sure that I'll get dinged for this post, either by the Gods above or other posters...
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Sep 1, 2008 07:54PM)
I almost posted several times over the last few weeks, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it based on the slim chance that this was actually legitimate.

Whoever thought this up deserves a big tip of the hat. And, possibly a punch in the nose. I was actually waiting for Jewels to tell us all about the pillow fight she had with her girlfriends at the sleep-over last night.

Really, how many hot blonde high school girls that you know are into card magic? Sometimes I think magicians are more gullible than lay people. But, on the other hand, being a really nice person and trying to help a newcomer is not the crime of the century.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Sep 1, 2008 07:58PM)
I don't think it should matter. I believe if someone is looking for help or advice we as a community should give it. Who cares if you believe or not, that is not the point of this thread is it?
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 08:55PM)
Hi Mickey-

remember this link you sent me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00yi2kJDjOk

Angela, she is beautiful, and talented to.

jewels
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 1, 2008 09:01PM)
Most people don't know it... but Angela is a dude :)
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 1, 2008 10:08PM)
Hi Scody-

that's better than the 21 card trick I got fooled with before. this time I understand :)

thought you were being serious

c ya guys tomorrow

jewels :napping:
Message: Posted by: a brown 1968 (Sep 2, 2008 07:27AM)
Hi Scody ,

I told J that the pictures would receive a certain response and to keep them coming, for it makes it easier to judge the character of the individual by how they respond to them .

Never crossed my mind that J was a fake but the information I have sent I would do so to any beginner if they asked in a similar manner.

Perhaps because I do have a couple of long term online friends who not only have brains and wit but are drop dead georgeous, I am less likely to think the worse.

Andy
Message: Posted by: Picard (Sep 3, 2008 09:18AM)
Super fun, this topic! Thanks "Julianna", whoever you are, for giving me such a good time reading through the cardmen's covertly helpful posts.
What definitely gave you away was the story with your dear uncle teaching you to memorize that sequence and all the guys were so full of praise for his method. They were so full of praise for everything you did or said, actually, especially some.
Oh well, I guess it wasn't a big sin to have a fantasy or two, eh dear cardMEN (who were so FOOLED by this topic)? :D
Message: Posted by: splice (Sep 3, 2008 10:12AM)
Isn't it nice to try to help only to be accused of inappropriate intentions?

Magicians helping magicians indeed.
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 3, 2008 10:27AM)
It is truely a pity to see grown men slobber over a female impersonator.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 3, 2008 07:49PM)
WOW, I can't believe this

is it that easy, you just write about someone and it becomes the truth! are you guys kidding me! spreading rumors can destroy a life. I know that and I am only 17 but it seems that I know more about feelings than you do. you guys are being worse than the kids I go to school with.

Robert- if you would've posted you might've been able to help me. and I'm sure the times have changed a lot since you were my age. just cause I'm young and blonde doesn't mean I should have restrictions on what I should or shouldn't like. or to be stereotyped by people like that. WHATS WRONG WITH ME BEING INTERESTED IN MAGIC?

I don't kknow any of you or ur stories, but I don't question it. I take everything at face value. theres no need for me to think any other way.

picard that doesn't make any sense to me, what did I definitely give away when I told the story of my uncle and memorizing cards? that's what he wanted me to do.

scody- I don't know why you think magicians are geeks, I sure don't!

you guys are making fun of me and also of the people that have helped me and taken an interest in my life. that's JUST NOT FAIR. who are you to decide for everyone whats right and wrong.

the only thing I can be blames for is a little innocent flirting. that's what 17 year olds do. its not like I'm looking for a date on here.

ive opened up and told my story pretty much everyday and some have seen interested so I kept going. if no one was interested I would've stopped

what have you guys achieved by saying these things about me?

Al- why would you even say that about the guys here. whos slobbering, they were just being helpful. female impersonator, I don't think so

I'll see what happens now after what youve said. I'll see who sticks around to help me. I don't know why the people that have helped me aren't sticking up for themselves.

just cause you think something doesn't make it true.

last question is - why would I be laughing at someone who is trying to help me. makes no sense!

oh yes, I was warned about things like this early on and didn't think much of it, until now.

I'm gonna see who sticks with me and the ones that are making fun of me are going to owe me a huge apology soon.

remember- you cant take back the words

jp
Message: Posted by: magic-dabra (Sep 3, 2008 08:15PM)
JP

Girl or guy, I agree that we should be here to help any who are looking for assistance. I did not post for a long time because I got "burned" when I first started visiting this site. I am VERY careful about my comments now and who I answer. There are some real a******s on this site who think they can "see" through computers and read your mind. They also think they are the Greatest magician alive and know ALL things magical.

Don't judge everyone by a few. Continue to ask your questions and enjoy your new interest. When a critic adds a comment, just ignore them like the rest of us do.

Magic-dabra
Message: Posted by: CamisBoss (Sep 3, 2008 08:54PM)
Julianna, it doesn't matter who you are, if you need help, we're here to help you. If you don't need help, and this is some stupid prank, then so be it. But come on guys, it shouldn't matter if it's a prank or not. Swallow your pride and help whoever Julianna might be.
Message: Posted by: Andrew H. (Sep 3, 2008 10:23PM)
I think it time every body backs off the girl!
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 3, 2008 11:30PM)
[quote]
On 2008-08-10 18:05, garcia00 wrote:As a teacher, I would advise you to use the medium with which you learn best. A visual learner would benefit more from video or personal instruction.[/quote]

Having been an instructor in Sleight of Hand for several decades, I would advise you not to take the above advice.

The solution for the accusations here is simple. Jewels, who is your uncle? It would seem from your posts that he knows about the Café, or at least magic on the internet and he seems knowledgeable enough to discuss things regarding magic. Identify him and/or have him contact someone here on the board.

In this way, you will not have to deal with some slobbering idiot trying to prove you aren't a girl.

And if I've missed the mark and you AREN'T a girl, congratulations for demonstrating that magicians are just as easy to fool as laymen.

The internet ain't the real world, folks, and those that assume it is are suckers.


Steven Youell
Message: Posted by: Blaque_Magik (Sep 4, 2008 12:41AM)
Wow, I must say if Juilanna is actually a guy, from just reading the past 6 pages I'd have to say he's pretty consistant with personality of a 17 year old girl. I really don't think anyone (except those guys on "to catch a predator) has reason to disguise themselves as an underage girl. Though, now that I think about it some of you guys seem like you'd be on that show. Better not go to her house! Chris Hanson is waiting!

But seriously, Give her a break. I believe her.

BM
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 4, 2008 01:46AM)
I'm baffled by these allagations and am equally curious as to what was said or done by her to start these rumors and why it should matter any way!

Here is a young lady that came to the Café less than a month ago openly admitting that she is brand new to magic, ready, willing and able to take guidance from those willing to offer. Those who supposedly believe in the premise of "Magicians helping magicians" (or at least that's what is spouted by many around here)! She states in an early post in the New Arrivals section that she is a HS student and says or does nothing to deceive to the contrary in any post I have read! Here is her intro post:

***I'm Julianna and I love magic among other things. I'm a H.S. student. My Uncle got me interested in magic because he was always showing me and my friends tricks and stuff but wouldn't show us how to do them. I hated him for that LOL!!! He said if I got serious about it he would help me, sssoooo, I'm serious! He pointed me to this website and gave me my first magic book to learn from.***

I've only been a member of the Café for a bit over a year but in that time I have seen several new folks come in here and ask for help. When given advise they argue and ignore! Then they buy all the DVD's from those cool magic sites and within 30 days they are asking us to give a critique of there latest effect, orig. sleights or notes from their last lecture! Julianna is a willing student! She comes here letting us know that she has some recommended text (which everyone pretty much agrees is good stuff) and she wants to start with page 1! She takes direction and reports on her progress and everyone has a grand ol time! UNTIL she puts up a avatar of herself and someone calls BS and now it's an inquest! I personally don't think that Julianna needs to justify herself to anyone, much less people who go by a "Forums persona".

Mick
Message: Posted by: snipes (Sep 4, 2008 01:50AM)
This forum is full of so many idiots it's embarrassing, MickeyPainless you're absolutely correct.

To all the magicians out there who do follow the mantra of the website, "Magicians Helping Magicians" - I applaud you. Shame on the others who feel the need to start a conflict in every thread.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 4, 2008 02:08AM)
Hey Mick-- I don't believe or disbelieve jewels. But time and time again I've seen people on a forum pretend to be someone they're not. So I take everything with a grain of salt.

At the very least, jewels got an early education in the character of the majority of magicians.

And if she/he was pulling one over then those very same magicians got an insight into their own character.

For what it's worth, I sent her some stuff and have at least been answering questions.

SEY
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 4, 2008 07:39AM)
Mickey my friend, Julianna is as transparant as tissue paper.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 4, 2008 09:22AM)
Al,
The last time I checked, tissue paper was opaque! Thin yes, but opaque! ;)

Steven,
I recall you offering info so good on Julianna if she received some of the great stuff you've sent me in the past!

The older I get the more I yield to no harm, no foul while maintaining a forgive but never forget attitude! If this is a ruse, oh well, it didn't cost me a dime and only a few minutes of freely given time!

Mick
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 4, 2008 12:47PM)
OK Translucent.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Sep 4, 2008 03:46PM)
Jewel's post have brought me back to a time when I was first getting into magic and how enthusiastic I was. I enjoy reading her posts and hope that she continues to keep us up to date.

I'll agree with one thing.
Whenever a female joins the Café the posts by men are much more numerous than when a new guy joins us.
Whether it's because they sincerely want to help the female in her magic or because they're a bunch of hornytoads I don't know and not sure it matters.

Good Luck J,
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Sep 4, 2008 08:20PM)
I am just glad that forums like this did not exist when the following ladies first got into magic. I wonder how many of you would have attacked them in the same way when they were younger and if they had posted a “hot avatar”?

Maria Ibáñez: International President Society of American Magicians
JoanCaesar: President International Brotherhood of Magicians
Debbie Leifer: Named 2006 Greater Atlanta Magician of the Year.
Celeste Evans: 50 Years in Magic and representative for both the State Department and the UN.
June Horowitz: Past International President International Brotherhood of Magicians

I wonder how many here even begin to approach the credentials these ladies have? I know I don’t, but I certainly respect them. It hasn’t always been easy for them. I remember when S.A.M did not allow women as members. In fact it was a good friend of mine who became the first lady member of S.A.M. The membership committee thought she was a man because of her name and “accidentally” admitted her. Boy did that open a can of worms and set a legal precedent.
[quote]

On 2008-09-01 16:38, silverking wrote:
I don't buy this thread, or "jewels" for a New York minute.[/quote]

A “New York Minute” seems to indicate you were in a “rush” to make a judgment.

Enough said.
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 4, 2008 08:27PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-04 21:20, Michaelmagicart wrote:

No I am not 12; I was serving in Viet Nam, with 5 years in the military, when you were probably in grade school.
[/quote]

SNAP!
Message: Posted by: Dante_Ravenkin (Sep 4, 2008 08:44PM)
I haven't really been following this thread like some others, but why the hostility? I saw something about someone saying Juliana is actually a man? Would it matter? What if she was transgendered? I don't recall seeing her say "Hey so-and-so, why don't we hook up?" I saw some intelligent conversation from people trying to help, get highjacked by people who care too much about the *** internet. There's a word for people like that: Troll. (Oftentimes in looks as well as title!) Relax people. Help whoever asks for help. If Juliana is here looking for advice, don't be an asshat. Give some advice. It's the kind of thing that helps grow our magical community!

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled forum....
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 4, 2008 10:22PM)
Hi everyone,

took me awhile to get on, I had so much homework, not much time for anything else.

Steve I read your post about my uncle and I will talk to him tomorrow about your idea. Just having him write in wouldn't be enough proof though. He was one of a few who warned me about the Café. even though he pointed me this way. He warned me about posting a photo. I don't think he would want to get involved with this anyway.

I usually don't care what people think or say, But I feel that I should clear things up for everyone here. especially for the people who have helped me so much. I think you guys deserve it!

I will show you that I am who I say I am as soon as I can. if I can get it done this weekend I will, if not hopefully by next weekend.

after the proof I will wait n see if the guys that accused me will swallow their pride, stand up and give me and everyone else here a WELL DESERVED APOLOGY!

gotta tell you though- Scoty is not a bad guy, he is just concerned for some of you he says he likes a lot. they say you never stop learning, at least that's what my mom always tells me. LOL! Scoty you are about to learn a life lesson. sounds kinda crazy coming from blonde teenager.

gotta go to sleep :napping:
I love that smiley
jewels
Message: Posted by: Steven Youell (Sep 4, 2008 10:45PM)
[quote]
On 2008-09-04 23:22, Julianna wrote:
Steve I read your post about my uncle and I will talk to him tomorrow about your idea. Just having him write in wouldn't be enough proof though. He was one of a few who warned me about the Café. even though he pointed me this way. He warned me about posting a photo. I don't think he would want to get involved with this anyway.
[/quote]

Have your Uncle PM me and I'll send him my phone number. Then we can talk at his discretion.

Steven Youell
Message: Posted by: molsen (Sep 16, 2008 11:08AM)
...and then nothing??!?!!

* How is Julianna getting on with the memorized stack?
* Did the uncle contact Steve?
* Are magicians really more gullible than leity?
* Do you have to be a girl to get help around here?
* Is molsen really a female cowardly disguising as a guy?

To find out more, tune in to next weeks episode of the Magic Café Reality Show!

'Michelle'


Seriously though, if someone feels that misrepresenting gender on-line is a big deal, they are thinking with their smallest head. Enthusiasm for a beginner taking their first steps in magic shouldn't depend on that.
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 16, 2008 07:45PM)
Of course it shouldn't...
I imagine though, that if this series of posts was as I expect, this wasn't about a beginner pretending he was a girl so that he could learn faster.

It's very clear to me (and that is sort of a guess) that this person knows quite a bit about magic. So, and again, I am guessing, the disengenuous behaviour is more about pulling a prank on some very cool people.

Playing a different gender a big deal? no way. Scamming a bunch of cool dudes as a game? Well... that would be a big deal.

I imagine the speed by which this post was dropped after there was failed proof, and the lack of posts by the perpetrator after it had been dropped, might indicate some truth to my accusations.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 16, 2008 09:05PM)
Hi Molsen n Scody-

I haven't been on in a while because of school and homework. Thought it would be easier in my final year. oh well! haven't had much time for anything else either. on top of that, our basement flooded this weekend and we had to throw out a lot of things. the streets were flooded so bad school was cancelled.

scody, at least the tone of ur posts have changed for the better. I'm not sure why this interests you so much, maybe in some weird way you miss me. I'm hoping to have the proof by this weekend. After the proof, I doubt I will ever be ur friend. Sorry but you've made it too weird.


Talk again soon,
jp
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 20, 2008 10:42PM)
O.K. here is a couple of videos. they r really bad but that's not the point now is it. everyone has read the posts from scody and others that it is not me. they have bullied me to no end and said some really awful things about me.

I hope this proves to all who I am.

Scody you are a RECKLESS BULLY quick to judge others. this should make you look deeply into the mirror to judge yourself. As quickly as the fun came to me with magic, you were able to just as quickly take the fun out of it for me. I hope you never do this to anyone ever again.

This has been ONE of YOUR LIFE LESSONS. I say one because I'm sure with the way you are there have been some in the past and most likely will be more in the future. try to CONTROL YOURSELF in the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSCqsjWRy_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0MnOU9JFL8

I will say more later,
jewels
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Sep 20, 2008 10:57PM)
Way to go, Jewels, that's showing them!
And by the way, just because these guys are here, have a number of posts, and occassionally give an answer, don't believe they are all magicians!
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Sep 20, 2008 11:06PM)
Thumbs up jewels!! As my Grandmother used to say you have "TRUE GRIT"! I sincerely
hope your enthusium has not been diminished by some of the things that were said to you in this thread. Keep up the good work. Magic needs more young ladies like yourself.
Message: Posted by: edh (Sep 21, 2008 12:24AM)
Really, who cares what she/he is. Are we not here to help one another? If she/he wants to be a magician who are we to say that because she/he uses a psuedenon(sp} does not want to learn.

MAN! I got tired of typing she/he. :)
Message: Posted by: rorythegreat (Sep 21, 2008 01:02AM)
LOL, the end of the second video was pretty funny! BTW, nice job Jewels.
Message: Posted by: a brown 1968 (Sep 21, 2008 01:30AM)
I beleive that is GAME !! SET and MATCH to Julianna

Of course the HE brigade could say that HE , managed to find the actress whose picture HE uploaded on to the forum and the HE , hired the actress (SHE) for the weekend , HE spent a day training SHE in magic and then HE filmed SHE to continue this illusion .

I hope the HE/SHE term is banished now and people have the manners and use her name Jewels .

What an excellent start to my day :)))
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Sep 21, 2008 02:08AM)
I don't believe the HE brigade can offer much but an apology to Jewels. It might take awhile, because at the moment they are to busy eating "crow". I personally would like to thank all of you in this thread that defended jewels. It shows you are true gentlemen of Magic.
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 21, 2008 03:10AM)
Ms Jewels,

I'm proud of you!

I have continued correspondence with this wonderful young lady since early on for the simple reason that I never had any reason to doubt her!

IMO Julianna has displayed more courage and without a doubt more class than any of those who doubted her and certainly those who made fun of her and flat out accused her of being a liar and a fraud!

I have known about her continued study of magic and her desire to make these videos to prove that she is who she says. I told her that she didn't owe anyone anything yet she persevered and delivered! This alone tells me that she has what it takes to accomplish whatever she puts her mind too! IMO she has shown more true dedication than a large percentage of the wannabes that call themselves magicians around here!

I personally think that Julianna is a fine addition to the magic fraternity and as I said in the beginning of this post, I am dang proud of her for hanging in there!

It's not my place to name names or point fingers since those of you who gave her any grief KNOW who you are. Hopefully you can muster up half the courage she displays and apologize and welcome her to the fold! Who knows, you may someday get the chance to meet her in person and learn the next latest and greatest effect on the market that SHE created and was gracious enough to share with us all! :)

Jewels, cheers to ya and I look forward to your continued contributions!

Mick
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Sep 21, 2008 04:51AM)
Agree. We never know when and who the next rising star of magic is. Jewels shows great potential.
Message: Posted by: Marvelous_Mysto (Sep 21, 2008 06:39AM)
WooHoo! Way to go JP!


Regards
Baz
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Sep 21, 2008 06:42AM)
Julianna
You have restored a synical old man's faith in human nature. I guess I watch too much TV about naughty people.
I APOLOGIZE
Al
Message: Posted by: abc (Sep 21, 2008 08:04AM)
Sooner or later you will figure out who to listen to on this board and who not to. Steven is a good start. All the best with your learning.
Message: Posted by: Papasmurf (Sep 21, 2008 10:03AM)
Right on Julianna,

From your video I saw something very special.
You displayed a style that was very down to earth and friendly with your spec.
I may be sounding like an old fart here but it seems more and more magicians are lacking grace. A cheesy arrogance can turn me off from what could have been an outstanding performance.
In the same token you have allot of tactful spunk, good on ya.
It is also obvious from the number of posts that you have generated; you are on the right track.


Eric
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Sep 21, 2008 10:50AM)
Good job, Jewels. I take back everything I said. Magicians are a very skeptical bunch. A lot of people thought this was a hoax perpetrated by someone with a very sick sense of humor. I think the MC moderators even thought it was a hoax. A beginner learning a memorized deck stack? A beautiful high school girl interested in card tricks? It all seemed too good to be true. Sorry we doubted you.

If you want to speed up the learning process, I suggest you ask for Michael Ammar's "Easy to Master Card Miracles" DVDs - Vols. 1 - 6 for Christmas. These DVDs contain many of the best card tricks ever invented. Some are almost self-working, but others will take a lot of practice.

Us older magicians had to sift through tons of reading material to find the hidden gems of card magic, but now it's all out there on a set of DVDs for beginner's, such as yourself, to watch and learn.

Good luck with your magic,
Robert
Message: Posted by: a brown 1968 (Sep 21, 2008 11:20AM)
FOr the members who are now making apologies , perhaps you should try and make amends by sending Jewels some good advice , please refer to the title of this thread.
Message: Posted by: Kaneda (Sep 21, 2008 12:51PM)
Awesome job Jewels, hope those who said negative things will say sorry to you. Keep up the good work and do more videos.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Sep 21, 2008 01:24PM)
Keep up the good work Jewels.

I didn't care much for the first trick.
Reasons being that it was too long and second that you could have had the camera hooked up to a TV and seeing the card there as you held it before the camera. That's one of those problems with videos and I'm not suggesting that this is what you did. Just that it's something that could be done.

The second trick is one I'm familiar with and you did it OK.
Maybe add a near miss and say something like, "I think this is a 4, a red one, not sure." show a 4 of hearts and continue.

Best to ya,
Message: Posted by: magic-dabra (Sep 21, 2008 03:44PM)
Nice job Jewels. I love to see guys with big egos who think they are the greatest magicians and know EVERYTHING about human nature get their ***** whacked off.

Hope you continue your interest and stay on the Café. The majority of the people here are friendly and helpful.

Magic-dabra
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 21, 2008 04:43PM)
All right!!!
Seeing how I am the leader of the 'he' brigade...
Great work, and I humbly apologize.

I will be far more careful in the future about my opinions.
I don't ask for forgiveness, and will give no excuses for my actions... cept'ing that I was a jerk.

Nuff said!! Thanks for proving me wrong... and, no, it was not right for me to ask for proof. I was just looking out for people...

So, Good work! and, once again... sorry :(
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Sep 21, 2008 04:47PM)
Good onya Scod man!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 21, 2008 06:33PM)
Hi Guys,

I want to say thanx to everyone who has helped me. I do appreciate every tiny or large bit of help you guys have given. I know I cant keep up with all the info, its a little overwhelming with everything else going on in my life right now.

I started a little bit over a month ago and I have to say, in this short period of time, I find that you guys deserve a lot of credit for what you do. I don't think people understand what really goes into performing magic. I know I didn't! the dedication you guys must have blows me away. I quickly looked at magic in a different way. My uncle was right when he told me in the beginning that it isn't tricks, but MAGIC! my learning here shows its the MAGICAL EXPERIENCE that matters for the AUDIENCE. This is just a part of what I've learned while being here on the Café', but, its probably the most important.

anyway, I don't know how much time I will have for magic anymore because I am so busy with school and the homework seems to come in truckloads. I am in cheerleading and that takes up a lot of time also. I will practice magic when I get the chance though. I still really like it, and its fun to do it for people.

my uncle also mentioned, along with others, that now I need to know the number that each card falls in the stack. omg, that will take forever, but I will follow thru when I have the chance to try and learn that also.

I'm so happy that the video cleared things up and put everyones minds at ease, especially mine. I know you guys were just being nice about the video. I know its really bad! but I wanted to show that I have the cards memorized pretty good, I did forget some along the way though. the table is all that's left from our flood last weekend, that's why my brother is sitting on the floor. LOL!

I will be back to talk to you guys from time to time. I'd like to hear how YOU are doing and what YOU are up to.

one more thing, I do accept everyones apology. this thing has just taken a lot out of me and I'm really tired and don't want to think about it any longer. Just glad it's over!

I will be taking the videos down sometime soon

thanx again everyone,
Jewels :)
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 21, 2008 07:13PM)
[quote]... I wanted to show that I have the cards memorized pretty good[/quote]

Hey Jules,
Just for kicks... leave them up!

So, I am assuming that the mem-deck stuff was the first video.
If so, here's a little advice. Don't look off camera when doing a video like that.

It kind of looks like you are getting queued.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 21, 2008 07:44PM)
Scody,

yes that was the 1st video. the reason I had my head turned was because this video was made on a mac and if I looked into the computer I would see the card on the screen in front of me. I still have a long way to go with it.

thanx for the advice though.

talk later,
jewels
Message: Posted by: scody (Sep 21, 2008 07:55PM)
Shoot!
You really should put it back up :)

Anyway... happy memorizing...
And, once again... sorry.

You were right...
This has been a total lesson for me :)
Message: Posted by: CamisBoss (Sep 21, 2008 08:45PM)
Dang, I missed the videos...
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Sep 22, 2008 05:02AM)
Are the videos taken down? I miss that too.
Message: Posted by: krisneale (Sep 22, 2008 05:56AM)
Can we get them reposted??
Message: Posted by: 0pus (Sep 22, 2008 11:05AM)
Jewels,

Do you speak Portugese?
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 22, 2008 10:59PM)
Hi Guys,

sorry but I had to take them down. they were really bad!

Opus I don't speak Portugese

jp
Message: Posted by: Mimix (Sep 23, 2008 10:41AM)
Hi JP,
I've just joined TMC and stumbled onto your quite intriguing thread. I have been slowly progressing with my card magic over the last year and consider myself to be an absolute beginner.
I too have been learning from RRTCM, although I also have the DVD, as I seem to learn better with visual aids. I am extremely envious that you have a mentor in your uncle that seems to know his stuff.
I guess this next question is also for all the other members too. What is this card order memory process? I would also like to have this tool. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be grateful.
It seems your arrival has let some old timers reminisce about there early beginnings. For me you have inspired me to have more focus in what Im doing.
Keep up the schoolwork and practice.
Mim
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 23, 2008 07:03PM)
Hey Opus- come to think of it, that question was pretty random.

hi mimix- I'm not to sure about it, my uncle just gave me cards to remember. people have told me different things about it, I just haven't had time to go thru everything that was sent. there's others that can help more than me for sure.

sorry I cant help more
jp
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 24, 2008 07:09PM)
Hey Mimix-

I found out for u, I think your the 1st person I've helped here.

its called the Aronson Stack.

hope that helps.

c ya
jp
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 27, 2008 06:52PM)
Gotta question for everyone out there,

what do you think is your percentage of time spent PRACTICING magic and what percentage on PERFORMING magic. that is if you were to add up all your time spent on magic.

and if you can, please tell how much time you spend on magic. If its possible!

thanx in advance,

jewels
Message: Posted by: themagiciansapprentice (Sep 28, 2008 06:36AM)
Jewels,

when I first started magic it was probably ten hours per week practising. (School work and Church prevented anything else). When I got my first show booked this trebled for a couple of weeks.

Now I tend to do 50% practise / 50% performance within about 8 hours per week.

But after going shopping or to a Convention magic does take over my vacations. I've the week off and suddenly I've got out Tarbell and Mark Wilson learning how to do sponge ball routines. Might be 20+ hours this week.

I aslo schedule at least one practice per month for my restaurant stuff or kidshow act if I haven't had any bookings. Also now practising new truiks for my Christmas and Valentine shows.

How about you?
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 28, 2008 12:46PM)
Hi magiciansapprentice-

thanx for answering, thought I was all alone here. everyone seems to be out of town. LOL!

Now ur post is exactly what I'm looking for. I know everyone is different, and it's kind of a general question. I am just interested in how everyone goes about their own magic.

for me, when I 1st started, I think I spent every hour of the day messing around with cards and the trick (do as I do). now with school and cheerleading I don't have much time for much else. But, I do still go over the memorized cards in my head a lot. I have to learn the number where each card lies now. it got really confusing trying to think backwards though. right now when I see a number I try and think of the card. my uncle told me when I'm in the car to look at license plates and pick numbers from them and try to remember the card at that number. hate to admit it, but I spend a lot of time thinking about the cards and numbers. pretty much everytime I'm in the car. when I'm walking past the lockers at school I always try to match the number on the lockers to cards.

I guess I'm feeling a little obsessed with it all but I just can't stop thinking about it now. kinda stuck in my head.

wandering if anyone else gets this crazy! I probably should be put in a home or something. LOL!

I hope others will answer.
Feeling Crazy Julianna
Message: Posted by: michaelmagicart (Sep 28, 2008 01:52PM)
No, your not crazy jewels. Practicing a certain thing can become an obsession as I am sure many a magician can attest to. It only shows that you are "dead set" on mastering it. If you become frustrated, then take a break, for a day or two. It is amazing, that often times after the break, you will find what you are working on, becomes easier for you.

Believe me, I have gone through the same expeiences before and I found taking a break really helps.
Message: Posted by: molsen (Sep 29, 2008 10:13AM)
Ideally I would practice 1-2 hours very day, but at the moment my time is consumed by other activities. Additionally I have sustained some (hopefully temporary) nerve damage to my left index finger, making card work (which is all I do) much more difficult.

I perform very seldom, perhaps once every 1-2 months now, and then only a short program of 4-5 effects. So, my performance/practice ratio is very low. If I would perform a lot more, I would still aim for 1-2 hours of practice a day, but more of the time would be spent on new effects.

Now that the cold and rainy season is approaching, I hope to get more time for my magic again. And hopefully my finger will be back to normal soon, it is starting to worry me.

Michael
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Sep 30, 2008 07:44PM)
Hi Michael and Molsen-

or I guess now it's Michael and Michael. that's funny! just noticed Molsen you put your name at the bottom.

Thanx guys for talking to me. Molsen, what happened to your finger? I hope it gets better.

magicart thanx for admitting to be as obsessed as I am. LOL! I'm not at all frustrated yet, I just think it's strange that I think about cards as often as I do. If someone would've told me that I would be doing these things 2 months ago I would've thought they were crazy.

I wish more people would write about themselves. Maybe everyone's just a little shy. I like to learn from other peoples experiences.

thanx again guys,

jp
Message: Posted by: Mimix (Oct 1, 2008 06:14AM)
Thanks for that JP,
Ive done a little research now and I guess its time to start the memory motor running. Im not sure whether Im going to like this method but I will give it a try.
How are you going with the stack?

Mim
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Oct 1, 2008 08:23PM)
Hi Everybody-

So my uncle came over the other night and showed me a trick with 4 coins and 2 cards. it was really cool! I don't remember everything but it went something like this.

he put 4 coins in a square and covered 2 of them. when he lifted the cards another coin was under the card. I couldn't believe it! then there was 3. At the end all the coins moved back to the corners they started from. it was incredible! I think my jaw hit the floor. LOL!

WOW! I think that was the best trick I've ever seen.

has anyone seen something like this. I don't want to know how its done I just want to know if anyone else has seen something close to this.

c ya
jewels
Message: Posted by: abc (Oct 1, 2008 11:19PM)
It is a classic of magic. It used to be one of my favorite tricks. I actually think I mentioned in another thread of yours that I woke my mom up many moons ago to show her this trick at 4 in the morning and totally messed it up the first time.
Message: Posted by: themagiciansapprentice (Oct 2, 2008 05:03AM)
Great trick -

I do this one with bottle tops, sugar cubes or coins depending on the setting.

I prefer to use my bare hands rather than the cards as well
Message: Posted by: Zenmagic (Oct 2, 2008 08:18AM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-01 21:23, Julianna wrote:

So my uncle came over the other night and showed me a trick with 4 coins and 2 cards. it was really cool! I don't remember everything but it went something like this.

he put 4 coins in a square and covered 2 of them. when he lifted the cards another coin was under the card. I couldn't believe it! then there was 3. At the end all the coins moved back to the corners they started from. it was incredible! I think my jaw hit the floor. LOL!

[/quote]

I agree with you, Jewels. This trick is really cool and looks pretty magical when done right. I think it was usually called the Matrix or Coin Assemblies. There are many versions of it, but I usually use the one with 4 cards and 4 coins.

Anyway, sorry if it's a bit off topic, but any chance you put your video performances back up? :)

Felix
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Oct 2, 2008 08:43AM)
The general category of effect, where three items gather at a position of a "leader" item, is called an Assembly. It can be done with cards, coins, bottlecaps, sugar cubes, dice, etc.

If it's done with cards covering up coins, it's generally called "Matrix". The one in question sounds like it could be Michael Ammar's version, although it might be somebody else's version depending on the sequence.

If it's done with the bare hands covering up the coins, it's generally called "Chink a Chink" in order to describe the noise that the coins make. I think, because that's such a potentially terrible name, many have preferred to call it a "barehanded assembly". Also, there are "Chink a Chink" sets in which the items being assembled look something like paperweights made out of wood or brass.

For both Matrix and Chink a Chink, the items are laid out in a square, and they eventually gather at one of the corners.
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Oct 2, 2008 03:23PM)
Not to beat this to death, however, I suppose there's no better place than here at the Beginner's Table to get this right:

Andrew's correct, the most general term for effects in which items are laid out in a square and all gather in one corner is an "assembly". Yes, there are other patterns, sometimes more than one, and sometimes they move progressively from corner to corner, but the genreal term is an Assembly, and that applies to Ace Assemblies, as well.

An Assembly of items (other than cards) where nothing is used to cover the items except the magician's hands is usually Chink-a-Chink or a Barehanded Assembly.

An Assembly of four coins where all of the coins are covered by cards (i.e. four cards) is Al Schneider's Matrix. It is the name of a specific effect by a specific person who is still very much alive.

However, the item Julianna described only used two covers. Odd as it may seem, the two cover approach came first, (i.e. before Matrix) and is usually credited to the Italian magician Yank Hoe under the title "Sympathetic Coins". The effect may have been done even earlier with hats and corks.

Julianna's uncle did something even more specific--the coins went back to their starting locations. This is (and David Neighbors will have to step in if I've got this wrong) a "Reverse". (as opposed to a "Backfire"?) There are only a few two-card reverse assemblies published, most notably Bob Kohler's "Return to Spender" and Mark Lefler's "Reversi". Or perhaps Shoot Ogawa has been teaching a reverse like this?
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Oct 2, 2008 03:34PM)
Ugh. You're correct, Curtis. I should have read more closely, totally glossed over the Backfire (or Reverse) -- couldn't have been Ammar's. And thanks for pointing out that 2 card versions predate Schneider's Matrix.
Message: Posted by: Aus (Oct 3, 2008 12:58AM)
Yes Jewels, like ac said it’s a classic of magic (now where is that seem familiar ;-) ) and a search on you tube will bring up a few different versions, just type coin matrix or assembly’s.

Check this one out: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ECszn_Re77I

Magically

Aus
Message: Posted by: donrodrigo (Oct 13, 2008 12:29PM)
Juliana,
Please get yourself the book by Henning Nelms (Magic and Shomanship)
Let's not put the horse behind the buggy. One must learn the art before doing tricks. What the heck is a trick anyway. Does that mean that as a circus act the dogs do tricks,or one is to be considered and therefore becomes an intertainer thus performs (magical effects?) Sorry friends I always hated the term do a trick. Money is spent wisely on books first. Please do.
Message: Posted by: molsen (Oct 14, 2008 11:51AM)
Yes, we all must learn to perform in order to be fantastic magicians. But first learning something TO perform helps. It allows you to form a mental image of what being a magician can mean to you. It provides you with a testing ground where you can experiment and improve. You can perform the few effects ('tricks') you know in a variety of different ways, and at the same time gain an understanding of which personality you want to express, and which type of effects suit that personality. Without knowing some magic 'tricks' first it is a very theoretical and abstract experience reading about showmanship in my opinion.

I personally found that experimenting with performing magic 'tricks' for a year or more primed me for learning and understanding the showmanship/presentational/performance related issues much much better. And, it is a great experience to see that tricks that you have known for a long time suddenly become new tricks again. This helps keep an open mind and re-examine everything with gained experience. Something that is not particular to magic, but rubs off on other parts of life as well, if we don't take it too seriously to notice.

Bah, I am feeling philosophical, and may just have wasted a few seconds of your life.

:o)
Michael
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Oct 19, 2008 11:39AM)
Hi Guys,

Sorry I haven't wrote in a while, been so busy. Thanx for all the replies while I was gone.

Aus- that is incredible! can't believe my eyes. Now I think, THAT is the best trick I have ever seen. Are you sure it isn't done with camera tricks. LOL! I've watched it like 10 times and I can't get over it. is that you doing the trick?

(Do you guys have any videos doing magic? if you do, I would love to see them). let me know if you have any on youtube.

Hi Molsen- I pmd you, I'm hoping your finger is better.

Thanks Curtis and Andrew- nice to hear from you again, you guys are really smart. Well, all you guys are really smart.

Hey ABC- I do remember you talking about the trick with your mom. that must've been disappointing. Are you able to do the trick now?

I will try to get on more, but please send me links to more magic that you guys do. Cant wait.

Thanx again everyone for all your help,
talk again soon,
jewels
Message: Posted by: abc (Oct 19, 2008 09:01PM)
After my first bad experience with it, I practiced more and have done that trick and many similar ones hundreds of times. The story with my mom is about 18 years (that hurt just typing it) ago. I started young so I am not that old!
With Christmas coming up I would suggest, like almost everyone else, that you ask your uncle, or anyone else, to get you Mark Wilson's Complete course in magic as a gift. You will not regret it.
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Oct 26, 2008 06:54PM)
Boooooooo, No Videos.

Isn't anyone going to show any videos to me?

Hi ABC-Thanx for talking to me and thanx for the advice. I'm glad to hear that you are able to do the trick and your practice paid off.

Talk later,
jp
Message: Posted by: Aus (Oct 27, 2008 06:38PM)
Talking of tricks Julianna, did you ever try that trick I sent you? It will really help your basic card handling skills.

Magically

Aus
Message: Posted by: savannamagic (Oct 29, 2008 12:49PM)
Julianna,
Start with simple effects and make them magical by your presentation. As a teacher, some people learn well from a book but some ( like me) need to be shown. Somethins a video will be a better learning method. You have to decide which is better for you. The simplest effect can really create magic if it is performed properly. Example. Before a show for a men's club, I handed the president a large envelope and asked him to hold it for me. Later in the show I had someone in the audience select a card. I then asked the president to stand up and open the envelope....then the envelope inside the envelope and again the envelope inside the envelope. He took out a jumbo card matching the one the person selected. The most simple trick and that is the trick he keeps asking me to do again. Leard and practice presentation as much as just the mechanics of the tricks. If you just do tricks you do tricks. If you do effect and present them well, you create magic!
Best of luck
savannamagic
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Oct 30, 2008 03:45AM)
Julianna, I'm close to your age (only 20 myself) been doing sponge magic mainly since I was around 11. I focus now on sponge and coin magic. Rannie raymundo, a great mentor, (look him up on the Café here) helped me with a lot of my coin work.

I'll send you some videos of my magic.

I read through this entire thread, it was incredibly seeing how you progressed through the months. Good job.
Message: Posted by: ZachIvins (Oct 30, 2008 11:14PM)
Hello Jewels!

Thank you so much for telling your story here at the Café! I have been very encouraged by your magic journey. In fact, I read all of your posts in one afternoon. It is great to see the joy you have for magic!

I don't have any videos online of myself performing, however, I do know of video of other magi you might be interested in.

The first video is of my friend Rachael Dunn. She is 15 years old and just won Texas Association of Magicians Senior Stage contest. (She competed against adults and won 1st place at just 14!) Here is video from the contest:

http://scymmagic.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/rachael-dunn-as-flicker-the-fairy/

The second video is of Sue-Anne Webster of Australia. She is one of my favorite magi along with her husband Tim Ellis. Here's the link:

http://scymmagic.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/sue-anne-webster-as-jeannie/

I hope you enjoy these!

Soli Deo Gloria,

Zach Ivins
http://www.zachivins.com
http://www.scymmagic.wordpress.com
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Nov 21, 2008 01:36AM)
In the matrix and Chink Chink effects, the classical formation is rectangular and the coins or objects generally meet at the far left.
There is however three other formations which make the effect look original: the reverse T formation (three objects in line on the performer side one on the spectator's side) and the the diamond formation. These two offer the fact that they are "spectator oriented"
The third one is the lateral one (generally from right to left) which make the effect look like a tabled coins across

With years of practice I chose the Reverse T formation as it creates a subconscious expectation by the spectators that the performer doesn't have to voice: they wish that the other coins will get on their side. This means that their imagination anticipates the plot and supports it. Admittedly we get the same expectation with the diamond formation but it carries less of a sharing dialogue just between the audience and the performer.
Message: Posted by: Strange Tasting Fish Sticks (Dec 19, 2008 07:50PM)
So, has anyone heard from this lady recently?

She hasn't returned my PM's.....
Message: Posted by: MickeyPainless (Dec 19, 2008 08:15PM)
I'd be willing to bet Ms Jewels has been bogged down with finals at school! Winter break begins today for most students so maybe she'll pop in over the holidays!
Message: Posted by: Julianna (Dec 25, 2008 05:53PM)
Merry Christmas Everybody-Hi Mickey,

hey ur right, school is really crazy, sssssoooooo hard this year!

I got my 2nd magic book for Christmas. Its called....hold on, let me get it.....Bound to Please, Simon Aronson. Got it from my Uncle. We are off for the holidays now WWWOOOOOO HHHHOOOOOOO!!!!! I will have some time to read.

Zach- thanx for the sending me the video's, I think they're great!

I got to see a video of a guy named bill Malone. OMG was he hilarious!! I was laughing so hard I could hardly catch my breath.

mickey what have you been doing?
hope everyone has been great!!!

talk soon,
jewels