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Topic: RING AND ROPE PATTER
Message: Posted by: shooz (Aug 10, 2008 08:16PM)
Can anyone help me with patter for a ring and rope routine, like COLUMBINI'S? It seem's like there are many routines, but there is no story to go with it, just a group of tricks that seem like juggling.
Appreciate any help or direction. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Aug 10, 2008 09:09PM)
I don't want to write your patter for you, but the concept of a wedding ring versus getting "roped into marriage" is a natural for idea starters.
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Aug 10, 2008 10:04PM)
You have to start with what you want to say to the audience about or with the routine. I mean, why are you even playing with a ring and a rope, are you trying to tie something up? Is it a hitching situation that isn't working, is the ring some magical thing, or an escape artist, why do the ring and rope go together and why do they magically separate. You have to have some basis upon which to base your story.
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Aug 11, 2008 10:51AM)
Hiya, Shooz:

Adding to the good advice above, I'd suggest considering the effect's impact on your audience.

"Ring & String (or Rope)" is a staple of my Strolling and Parlour work, and frankly I've been too glib with the patter. Lately, I've been getting responses like "that's creepy," indicating that the patter needs to be...well, Magical. No more diluting good Magic with condescending "lines."

As an alternative, a couple of themes I'm considering are: The Ring as representing Eternity, the string Time; or the Ring as representative of Alchemy, and how Alchemy derived from Magic and became Science, but left behind all wonder in the process.

FWIW,
Leland
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 11, 2008 02:09PM)
Shooz
I do my own original ring and rope routine, and I never thought about a suitable presentation, it just came to me gradually after about 100 performances. It took a while to develop, but it is ALL mine.

I HATE the expression PATTER. It reminds me of shredded wheat without milk, sugar, or fruit. Patter is a bunch of meaningless words that magicians use to fill in dead time. A monologue, or presentation however is the dressing that when it is well written usually enhances a routine.
Message: Posted by: shooz (Aug 22, 2008 08:23AM)
Thanks to everyone who responded. You all have given me several directions to pursue. I appreciate all your input.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Aug 22, 2008 08:26AM)
This sounds like a job for super- KOTAH. King of patter. PM Kotah
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Now, I am notorious for not having any deliberate patter. I find that sometimes, the patter distracts too much from the focal point of the moves.
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My favorite type of patter is fashioned after the six card repeat, where I tell the story of how I watched a magician do a trick where (do the trick)..etc. etc.
The punch line being, "and, you know as hard as I tried, I just never could figure out how he did it".
Message: Posted by: oscarmagic (Aug 23, 2008 07:35AM)
I usually insert a ring and rope effect in my long routine with one rope. First a false knot gag, then a cut and restored routine, the ring and rope effect and the final. In both the second and third effect I introduce a imaginary assitant: for the cut and restored effect "she" (the rope) substitutes my previous assistant who had some problems with a zig-zag girl effect or similar one, then I introduce another strange assistant(the ring) for an Houdini-style escape effect. Maybe for magicians, especially the Houdini story, is not new but for laymen it's always a good occasions to tell an interesting story of that magician: the idea to use imaginary assistant is always well received from my audience.
Message: Posted by: puggo (Aug 23, 2008 10:22AM)
I was performing a five phase ring and rope routine (Mix of Colombini, Daryl and Williamson). Each phase appeared progressively more impossible, so I told the story of when my teacher took his magic exams (in the style of Shaolin masters etc!), and they didn't like him, so set harder and harder challenges (each phase of the routine), which he kept succeeding with. The final phase was an impossible, obviously ridiculous knot penetration / unlink, presented as .."so then he had to do this one"... .."so what happened?".. "I don't know, he never told me..etc" The presentation & final joke seemed to play very well, but I found that the routine was better for an small audience or magic fans. I normally use a snappy Sanders-based rope routine or ninja rings for table hopping etc. where the audience has many other distractions and it is less personal. Hey! just my opinion / attempt to assist!
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 23, 2008 10:35AM)
After reading the last two posts the question came to me. Just how long are these rope routines that you guys do? I feel that it is hard to hold an audiences attention for more than 5 minutes with rope, but I'm willing to listen to other opinions.

Oscar my friend
Welcome to the magic Café. I see that you are from Milan. The birth place, home, and final resting place of the greatest juggler who ever lived Enrico Rastelli. The next time you pass by the Bergamo cemetery please stop by Rastelli's mausoleum and say a prayer for me.
Message: Posted by: puggo (Aug 23, 2008 11:33AM)
The ring and rope that I did was about 3-4 minutes long, with 4 out of 5 phases being a link/unlink (the 5th was the gag), and I would agree with you regarding the attention span. I also felt, in my limited experience, that some stuff that is appreciated by magicians / magic fans, does not play as well to lay people. This is why I use a shorter rope-only routine or rings for 'walk around' (I don't do stage etc.).
Message: Posted by: oscarmagic (Aug 24, 2008 06:04AM)
I agree that generally is hard to hold an audience attnetion for so long with just a rope in the hands but I think this could not be a rule for a lot of reasons. In my experience the routine with a rope I described before, usually is 6 to 8 miutes long , that's because according to my magic style I love to "talk" with my audience and ,in this case, only the Houdini part of the routine can take not less than 3 or 4 minutes. While I'm introducing this famous magician to the audience I use to give the rope to one of the spectators in front of me who holds it till I start the trick in itself and that's two important reasons for me: first I DON'T want to have a rope in my hands for 8 minutes (I'm not Tabary and I could be boring..!), second I want the audience to touch all the props I use in my act and let them see that the rope I use is always the same for all the routine.

To Al,
When possibile I will surely go to the Bergamo cemetery: one friend of mine told me something about this incredible juggler I didn't know too much and that there is a life-sized statue of Rastelli within his family tomb , to see absolutely
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 24, 2008 09:16AM)
From all the rope routines I have studied there are more that 15 minutes of moves I love to use, but I have broken them down into 3 different routines that I do for about 5 minutes each because we are in the business of entertainment, and we are not here for show and tell.

Oscar
My first love is juggling, and I wear a gold charm of Rastelli around my neck (Italians love gold). Some day I will visit the Bergamo cemetery and lay flowers on Rastelli's grave.
Alfonso Angello
Message: Posted by: magicians (Aug 24, 2008 09:27AM)
Monument
http://www.juggling.org/fame/rastelli/Pics/barry.jpg
Act description
http://www.juggling.org/fame/rastelli/jwmayact.html

A mp3 movie
http://www.juggling.org/animations/rastelli.mpg
Message: Posted by: Al Angello (Aug 24, 2008 09:31AM)
Thank you Ian
Jugglers from all over the world often times make the pilgramage to Rastelli's grave.

There was another famous Italian St. John Bosco who was an accrobat, magcian, juggler, busker, and priest he used to preach to the crowds between his street shows. St John Bosco is the patron saint of jugglers.
Message: Posted by: Andre Hagen (Aug 24, 2008 01:40PM)
My personal routine is presented as a re-creation of a contest at a magician's convention. Contestants were given something (in this case a ring and rope) and had to do magic with it.

Each contestant puts the ring on the rope magically (which I of course demonstrate) but in the end I win the contest because I take it OFF the rope magically.

Works for me.
Message: Posted by: KOTAH (Aug 24, 2008 05:05PM)
Super Kotah ? Not exactly. But thanks for the kindness Ian . The type of effect may help tp craft/ formulate the story line. I have sever wesatern themes; penetration may be a gooday for a hanging, In one a rope larks headed to a hitching ring post comes free foe a quick bank robery getaway. THis same idea would apply to aprisoner of a slave transporter in aftrica. A rin may become a circus performer, the rope his/ her trapese/ tightrope. Just some quick suggestions.

Kotah
Message: Posted by: ReDeFiNe (Aug 24, 2008 10:57PM)
I perform a ring and rope routine by a Japanese Magician Birdie Koyama, It uses one piece of rope and 2 different colored rings, and there some some unique moves whereby the rings transpose in and out of the rope.

The routine is performed to a piece of music ala Chinese Linking Rings, using 2 small rings and a loop of rope.

For close up presentation, I enjoy Tabary's Ring and Rope sequence as there are some very visual penetration moves. I simply present it as a challenge, making each phase more and more difficult to execute.
Message: Posted by: murf (Aug 26, 2008 07:59AM)
I start my Ring-n-Rope routine by talking about puzzles; crossword puzzles, jigsaw puzzles, Sudoku puzzles, and my favorite --- Chinese puzzles. I talk about the various kinds of Chinese puzzles, all of which involve the seemingly impossible separation of two linked together items. I then explain that one of my hobbies is making my own puzzles. Being a Texan, my puzzles are usually made of Texas size things, like railroad spikes and logging chains; but since those are hard to fit in my pockets, today I'll use a piece of rope and a harness ring. The rest of the patter focuses on how people pick up and play with puzzles in a store --- they just kind of wiggle things around, and pretty soon they come apart! Of course, the hard part is getting them back together, etc., etc., etc. You get the idea....

Murf
Message: Posted by: magicsoup (Sep 25, 2008 11:26PM)
I do about a five phase routine and each part gets it's own little story. For eg.

"I'd like to explain how magicians do magic. They use a technique called sleight of hand. It is a very common method for us. I , though, use a method called sleight of arm. It's very difficult. Very few magicians in the world know this. Even the big names like Copperfield and Chris Angel don't know this method, ...that's why they are in Vegas and I'm (meekly) at the farmers market." I say this as I get into position. At the end of that bit it gets a small laugh. I then release the ring from the rope and get an "oooh". My bits don't generally get huge laughs (although that's not always true) but they do seem to be engaging.
Message: Posted by: MagiUlysses (Oct 29, 2008 08:48PM)
Greetings and Salutations,

I explain how it is that magic actually works. You see, a rope has two ends and a middle, and the ring has the inner hole, the area outside that isn't hole, and the ring itself, and now you know how the magic happens. You've only got two eyes and I just do the sneaky moves where you aren't looking.

How's that for a start.

Just my $.02 (USD) worth. YMMV

Joe Zeman aka
The Mage Ulysses
Message: Posted by: meco (Nov 4, 2008 01:32PM)
I use a variation of Dan Fleshman's, It can be found in "The Restaurant Magic of Dan Fleshman, Vol.1" or "Live at The Jailhouse"

-Chris
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Nov 6, 2008 09:27AM)
Joe - I like that.
Can we have more?
Message: Posted by: MagiUlysses (Nov 9, 2008 06:27PM)
Greetings and Salutations,

That's it, really. I use five phases of Colombini's Still Ringing, Too: the knot in the air, the ring passing into the knot, the ring passing into a knot using the world's fastest knot technique, the ring thrown into a knot, and removing the ring from the knot yet the knot remains. I use variations of the patter outline, I've probably never presented the patter twice the same way in a row, describing how the eyes cannot watch everything and I do the magic where they aren't looking. The ring-and-rope sequence is available to anyone who purchases Aldo's routine, but I'll leave the patter vague as it's mine, as far as I know. You are, of course, free to use the idea for your own patter.

That's my $.02 (USD) worth. YMMV

Joe Zeman aka
The Mage Ulysses
Message: Posted by: shooz (Dec 15, 2008 08:15PM)
Again...Thanks to everyone for your contributions.

And sorry for not sending thanks sooner.