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Topic: "Looks real" books
Message: Posted by: Matt Graves (Mar 10, 2002 06:08AM)
Hi, I'm not new to magic, but my little brother is, and he does not like sleight of hand like I do. He went with me to see David Copperfield last month, and he has been saying that he wants to do magic that looks real, like Copperfield does.

He likes stuff like the "pen through handkerchief" on Copperfield's web site and he said he doesn't mind if it takes a lot of advance preparation and practice, just as long as it looks _real_ and not like it comes from finger skill or trickery.

Do any of you know of any books that teach this kind of magic in particular? I mentioned The Art of Astonishment to him because the description sounded like that, but I have never read any of those books and I'm really not sure if that is what he would be looking for. He's twelve - he'll be thirteen in November.

He especially wants to learn magic that is not from books I have read (I gave him my Mark Wilson book and one other one that I can't remember the title) . . . he wants to surprise me, in other words. :bg: I think he could do well with magic, too.

He has a very good mind for inventing effects - he has given me quite a few ideas, and here I thought I was the big magician brother! :goof:
If anyone can help here I'd appreciate it.
Message: Posted by: Dr. TORA (Mar 11, 2002 09:33AM)
OK My friend, I see your problem. Because my youngest student is only 11 years old he is on the stage for the second year.

I am telling this to show that I am experienced on the subject. By the way, maybe you will not understand the language but may want to see the 4 photos on his page
go to ardakadabra is the address of his page.

The best thing to do is have him watch the videos of the masters teaching simple tricks. For example Jeff McBride's are excellent although not so simple. Have him learn the ones he is interested in and then he will soon realize that he must learn at least basic manipulation.

Then he will be wanting more and go on to more elaborate moves. You may contact me anytime you need help on this.
Yours in magic,
:dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Telemus (Mar 11, 2002 10:32AM)
My view is your "Performance" has more to do with making something appear "real" than the actual effect your performing. The simplest trick performed well is by far better than an elaborate trick delivered without inspiration. "Real" is in the mind.
Message: Posted by: SloMo150 (Mar 12, 2002 01:21PM)
I have a friend who's son wanted me to teach him a card trick. So I showed him a self working four ace production. He got the basics down somewhat then kept asking for another trick.

I told him to learn this one. Learn it so he could do it in his sleep. A year later he called me on the phone and told me he had a video for me. It was that same trick. Guess what, he had the handling down so well that he could do the trick blindfolded. In fact he does.

He is now a member of a local young magician ring in Oklahoma. So what am I rambling on about? He now makes that one trick appear so smooth that it does look real. Practice the easiest trick till it becomes natural like washing hands or eating, and people will think it is real. :magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Mar 12, 2002 03:51PM)
Slo,
That young man may never realize what a great service you did for him by NOT showing him a second trick when he asked for it.
Putting in that much practice on a first trick today is, indeed, commendable.
cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com
Message: Posted by: SloMo150 (Mar 14, 2002 12:39PM)
Yeah, I wish I had that much time. With my schedule I get maybe 3-4 hours a week. But the time I do get I am learning well, Hopefully that is.

Well for now I have a great and enjoyable Hobby. One Day hopefully a lot more. Even if that never comes I still enjoy doing and performing magic. And with all the support and information from this site it makes it a lot easier. Thanks again.



:magicrabbit: SloMo
Message: Posted by: Jeb Sherrill (Mar 15, 2002 04:55PM)
Your little brother does have a good concept of magic. Magic should never "look" like sleight of hand. If you can get one past him and make him think it's self working, then you'll know your stuff is good and he'll want to emulate it.

Jeb (Sable)
:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
Message: Posted by: Matt Graves (Mar 18, 2002 05:21PM)
Actually, yesterday, we were all at our Dad's house, and I was showing him a little routine I've been working on with a few card and coin effects and a sponge ball routine I made up myself as the finisher, and I think it did have the appearance of real magic, because his jaw was dropping quite a bit during the whole thing . . . :rotf: He is really getting into it. He just showed me a silk production from an envelope which looked incredibly real even to me! :goof:
I have a good idea how he did it, but it looked very convincing! I'd say he's well on his way - especially to only be 12. We bought a David Copperfield DVD, and he watches it over and over . . . he loves to try to figure out how to do the little tricks like Ring Flite and the Crazyman's Handcuffs (which he is actually catching onto much better than I ever did.) :kermit:
I'm just looking for a good book to start him off with that has a lot of really visual, "real" looking effects.
Message: Posted by: Pokie-Poke (Mar 18, 2002 11:14PM)
Show him a trick he doesn't know, and don't tell him how it works. Let him watch you do it for someone else and have him watch their reaction.

I find that the younger people get so wrapped up in how it works, and not what is happening for the audience.
Message: Posted by: Martin_H (Mar 19, 2002 06:09AM)
One thing is wanting more and more (tricks) - seems to be a human problem, without going into depth. I agree with all the opinions to do ONE thing right, instead of many things mediocre..
There is the gap between amateur magicians and professionals (not saying an amateur can not do a professional performance), but it always depends on how much time, thinking, love, concentration is spent with it.
(energy follows the attention!!)
Martin
Message: Posted by: MatthewBlackwell (Mar 21, 2002 02:18PM)
I could be mistaken but was it David Devant that said he did only eight tricks but that he did them all really well?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell
Message: Posted by: AndiGladwin (Mar 26, 2002 07:47AM)
Matthew...

You're right, it was Devant. I think the number was actually five and the quote comes from the introduction to Royal Road To Card Magic.

--Andi
Message: Posted by: Dr. TORA (Mar 29, 2002 03:10PM)
I agree All and I want to add one thing on making a few good tricks rather than so much bad tricks. Jeff McBride advises that beginners "do whatever you like, but do at least one thing sooo well. For example Jonathan Pendragon is the best at performing the "substitution trunk" I must admit I agree with Jeff. DO AT LEAST ONE THING WELL. :magicrabbit:
Message: Posted by: Alan Wheeler (Apr 19, 2002 12:42AM)
I remember a philosophy professor told me one time about a magician who decided he would try to be the very best at one thing--and I think he chose as the focus of his skill the Topit. I don't know the name of the magician who did so, but in the '80's some of the magicians in Atlanta were saying no one could top his Topit.

So you guys are also suggesting
1. to do one (or a few?) things well and
2. to focus on the effect, presentation, and audience reaction, rather than trick collecting.

Any other fundamental rules?

--alan
Message: Posted by: BillParky (Apr 23, 2002 02:11PM)
All of this makes great sense especially for professionals. However, for us amateurs with the same audiences all the time i.e. friends, family, colleagues etc. we're under great pressure to come up with new tricks all the time.
The old saying about the difference between the amateur and the professional is that the amateur changes his tricks whilst the pro changes his audience! Given the truth of this situation how are we supposed to hone our skills on just a few effects?
Interesting thread.
Bill
Message: Posted by: Gawin (Apr 24, 2002 05:14AM)
But donīt forget that even amateurs change their audience. My grandfather has seen the trick - my mother hasenīt!
But the important thing is present the trick the right way there wonīt be a problem, show one trick twice (after some time of course).
And by the way - my own family slowly gets boring about my "great" trick.

So go and search a new audience.

Have you ever seen the eyes of the boy sitting on the till while your bill folds?
;)
This can be your audience and you will have fun with it!!