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Topic: Creativity and the Sub Trunk Illusion
Message: Posted by: m.ruetz (Oct 14, 2008 01:44PM)
Here's an interesting article submitted by Kyle Peron that challenges us to think outside of the (substitution) box.

[url=http://magicgizmo.com/home/articles-stage-a-platform-magic/66-illusions/179-creativity-and-the-sub-trunk-illusion.html]Full Article: Creativity and the Sub Trunk Illusion[/url]
Message: Posted by: magicmarkdaniel (Oct 14, 2008 05:21PM)
That's a very interesting article. I really enjoy Kyle's jottings.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Oct 14, 2008 06:05PM)
Something really interesting to think of. Just remember : What if ...?

Oliver.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Oct 14, 2008 06:53PM)
Thanks guys. I do appreciate your kind words and thoughts. It is much appreciated.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: TaylorReed (Oct 14, 2008 08:47PM)
I loved the article... This is the way David and his crew have been thinken for years. I meet with David once about an original Sub Trunk that I had invented an was trying to get him to do and he said it was the coolest trunk that he had ever heard of at the time, but that he was already having David Mendoza build this really cool exchange with the big table and all that later became his famous bit... He explained that he got permission from Kirby to use the table and then instead of the box going up he was going to use a bed type sceen with bed sheets etc.... Any how he always thinks outside of the box and creates great Illusions as a result of it..
PS>>> once again great article. I never did anything with the original Trunk effect, it just stayed in my note book. But it's pretty cool....

Taylor
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Oct 15, 2008 07:00PM)
Thanks Taylor. The pupose of the article was an extension of my notes on creativity in magic. It is also part of a lecture I have done, but want to do more of. I have a passion for creativity and it is my hopes to show people that ANYONE can be creative, they just need to learn tips and techniques is all. Thanks again. I really hope to get a chance to see your show sometime. It would be an honor and a lot of fun.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: magicaldj1 (Oct 22, 2008 06:19PM)
Excellent article Kyle. I love how you think!! I love reading your posts. Always something to learn.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Oct 22, 2008 06:57PM)
Thanks so much. I really appreciate the kind words my friend.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Allen McGinn (Dec 31, 2008 08:40AM)
Hey guys,
I seen a diamond shaped sub trunk one time for sale and haven't seen it yet. You can also see the same style on Micheal Bairefoot's website. I was wondering if anyone can advice me on where I can get it?
Thanks,
Allen McGinn
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 31, 2008 09:51AM)
Hmm. I have not seen that style. I will have to keep my eyes open. Thanks again, guys, for the nice complements on the article. Much appreciated.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Sam Sandler (Dec 31, 2008 05:08PM)
Great, everyone will now do something different, and I can keep doing the same style I have for years. :)

Hey, Kyle, as always, I agree with most of what you said. However, one thing to think about is that we magicians see the sub trunk performed much more often than the general public, and therefore we think it's overdone or not done with enough of a twist.

I agree in general with you that too many magicians just open up a new trick, read the directions, then perform it that way for life, never adding to it or making it their own.

Kyle, as you know, both you and I like to be creative with our shows, so I guess all I am saying is that you make a great case for being creative as I do in my lectures as well, but some times I think classics can indeed just be a classic.

Does that make sense?

On the subject of creativity, my pet peeve is watching other dove workers perform, and they all take the same pose just before they produce a dove. Now the truth is that I, as a dove worker, recognize the set up, but again, the general public does not. Therefor, we can say they need to be more original, but the lay audience will not notice the difference.

Now if they can add unique props or a storyline, then it would be much better.
My good friend Jay Mattioli has accomplished this with his quick speed and accuracy to steal the doves. There is no stand upright, place hand here, move thumb here, pretend to do something in the other hand, then produce dove.
I enjoy watching him because he makes it look natural and magical.

Just my 2 cents.

So I have said all of that, and now I will just say:
good job, kyle.

sam
PS Tessa says hi to Kelly. :)
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 31, 2008 05:27PM)
It absolutely makes sense. But I think you can even do the sub trunk in the standard way, but put into your own sense of style and character. Even doing that changes it up a bit and begins to make it a bit more creative and unique. :)

Kyle
Message: Posted by: MagicErik (Jan 1, 2009 06:26AM)
Creativity (or the lack of it) always seem to be a hot discussion item.
To me most illusion-shows are a showcase of boxes and what you can do with them.
If I were a real magician I would use the boxes for others things. If I am hungy I would produce a pizza guy out of a box. Perhaps even with his scooter. I would take over the pizza and make him vanish again. Or when I would get hurt I would get myself a beatiful nurse out of a large first aid kit.
You could also put some story in your Subtrunk-act that give it more sense. Why do you want to change places? When you are in the box you could wave through a hole with a bundle of dollars. When the lady sees you with all that money she throws the curtain in the air. Then you stand on the trunk and it's here in the box waving the money with a happy face. But you don't get here out of it you just role the trunk off the stage.
And why do you stand on top of it? You can also stand next to the trunk, or in front of it. Or you stay on the trunk and end up with the both of you on the trunk.
Or the both of you are in a hurry. You need to change costume very fast. So you put her in a trunk with clothes. She ends up on the trunk in her new outfit. When she opens the box she finds you in it, also with a new outfit. Ready for the next act.
You can also theme the trunk as a safe. Play two thieves that want to steal the contents of this safe. First one ends up in the safe and he ends up on the safe with juwelry hanging out of his pockets and then he gets you out with the money. Or as a coffin when you are doing a Halloween kind of act. As a television with an evil tv-villain breaking out and sucking you into the tv. Or a monster in a cage that changes places with you (or vice versa with you ending as the magician who saved the world from this beast)..
Doing Subtrunk the old styly is, to me, nothing more than show off a trick that you learned. But why?
EVI
Message: Posted by: Loyal R (Jan 1, 2009 07:45AM)
Verry interesting article and it's the absolute thruth.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 1, 2009 10:10AM)
Kyle doesn't just think; he schemes!

I love it!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 1, 2009 10:33AM)
Hey Bob!!! Thanks my friend. =)

Are you suggesting that I actually sat down and wrote an article aimed at getting people to think and talk and discuss? ME!!!??? No way.. never. lol

Kyle
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Jan 2, 2009 02:47PM)
Good article, Kyle. Thanks for writing it.

I think the Sub Trunk is a good example of a trick that was very much in context with the world when it was first performed, but which is now being done with no sense of that context. When Harry and Bess were doing the ST back in the late 1800's, a trunk was a very common piece of luggage. People knew what it was and could relate to it. And from reports which have filtered down, Harry's trunk looked like it had been around the country in baggage cars a whole bunch of times.

Nowadays, trunks aren't that common, except maybe in dorm rooms. I remember when department stores sold them in the luggage department, but you don't see them that much any more. For all intents and purposes, a ST is just a lockable box. Unfortunately, when people paint their ST red or bright blue or apply chrome and stuff to it, it no longer looks like a lockable box. It just becomes a circus prop.

I would love to see someone go back to the original concept and come up with something that is in context with today's audiences.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 2, 2009 06:39PM)
Thank you George. I really appreciate your kind words. the article is really geared at getting people to simply think about the way not only this illusion is presented, but how creativity can come into play with any illusion. Thanks again.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Rich Hill (Jan 2, 2009 07:50PM)
Great article, Kyle! You're hitting the nail on the head!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jan 2, 2009 09:12PM)
Thank you Rich for the kind words. It is much appreciated.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: kcmagic (Jan 4, 2009 10:19AM)
I saw the sub done on top of a black art table once. Magician on top, assistant inside. swicth happened, assistant was on top, unlocked it, and there was another assiatnt. The, they made some more people appear, and then the magician appeared in the back of the audience.
Message: Posted by: kcmagic (Jan 4, 2009 09:12PM)
Just remember who I saw do that subtrunk. It was Joe Devlin.
Message: Posted by: Irish_matt (Jan 5, 2009 10:50AM)
Doug Henning performed the sub trunk on one of his specials with the sucker switch.He was on top, made the switch with the assistant, then it was another assistant inside the box... Doug then reappeared descending on a rope above the trunk. I think the trunk was also placed on top of a sheet to rule out the use of a stage trap...

Matt
Message: Posted by: JulianVictor (Jan 5, 2009 02:42PM)
Here is a diffrent style sub strunk with a tip over included - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dgwfWY4vySw



I feel if we do the Sub Trunk in the original style we should keep to the escape type effect more. If not we should completly change it.