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Topic: Best wand for the Wand Spin?
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 28, 2008 06:41PM)
Is there such a thing? I'm in the early stages of learning the Cups & Balls, and the Silent Mora wand spin is the first task I've set myself. The wand I'm using is 5oz., and just over 13" long, with brass tips. Hardwood, I think. No idea where it came from, it's been in my drawer for years. It's heavily varnished, which allows very little friction, so I've covered it with medical tape to give a bit of grip. That helps a lot. But.. before I go any further, I'm just checking to ensure that I'm not completely on the wrong track. Weight and length, I'd think, would be the most important thing.....
Now, I expect a few answers along the lines of "use whatever suits you", but I don't exactly have a wardrobe full of various wands to sample.
Anyone have any opinions on the Magnum Magus wand? Or any other suitable wands for that matter?

Thanks!

DCB
Message: Posted by: M for Magic (Oct 28, 2008 06:50PM)
Check out the posts about Rannie's wands.
Message: Posted by: Dave McFarland (Oct 28, 2008 06:54PM)
I have a 14" hardwood wand. I like it a lot. I think a lot of people recommend a heavier wand for the Vernon wand spin, but I've found once you get the basics down, it doesn't really matter as much. I started with just the drummer's spin from the Ammar DVDs. I practiced that a long time, before even attempting the Vernon wand spin. I also got a book/dvd called "Drumstick spinology" which is for drummers, but there were a couple of spins in there that look good.

Definitely get the spin down before attempting the vanish part. It took me a while to get even half-way decent at it (which is where I'm stuck with it right now)
Message: Posted by: professorwhut (Oct 28, 2008 07:12PM)
For me, it's the Ammar Mercury wand, which is the wand I learned the spin with. I am sure that has a lot to do with my choice. I can use most any of my wands, but the Mercury seems the easiest for me.
Message: Posted by: MagicByUriel (Oct 28, 2008 08:11PM)
I have a Bill Palmer Style wand from Tabman Tables and it has brass inserts in the tips which make spinning very easy.
Message: Posted by: Levity (Oct 28, 2008 08:13PM)
My beautiful Raydu wand from Rannie Raymundo is heavy and perfect for the Vernon spin. The wood is kamagong which is rare and dense. I had it made with extra-long ferrules of copper, which are solid and dense. The weight lends itself to gravity in all the right moments...

G
Message: Posted by: M for Magic (Oct 28, 2008 10:35PM)
Rannie's "Boss Wand" is great as well.
It is a solid one-piece wood wand that is slighly tappered in the middle.
I find it aids the spin.
It is not fancy, but a good solid "street wand". It is attractively made and affordable, so you can get a few if you like them.
All the best,
Jeff
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 28, 2008 11:23PM)
You have to make sure that the wand is not too long for your arm. I made a special wand for a friend of mine that was about 2 inches longer than I recommended. It was very difficult for him to do the spin with because it kept hitting his body.
Message: Posted by: yin_howe (Oct 29, 2008 03:00AM)
Check out this thread on Favourite wands. Although not exactly relating to your question, but it might help.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=268931&forum=115

I have the Michael Ammar Mercury Wand and the MM wand, but still prefer to use the cheap plactic "Rising wand" even to do the wand spin. Doesn't hurt as much when you hit yourself or drop it on your foot. :P
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 29, 2008 08:05AM)
Is the Ammar Mercury wand still available? I had a hunt for it some time ago, with no success....

Regards,

DCB
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 29, 2008 09:41AM)
Go to his web site.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Oct 29, 2008 09:55AM)
Wand spin is the hardest thing I have had to learn, and the Micheal Ammar DVD does not make it easier to learn that spin. Learning C&Bs routines is fun for me, but the wand spinning takes the fun out of it.

Rannie Raymundo made a FANTASTIC Rael Wand for me and there is no way in the world I am going to practice Wand spinning with that.

I guess I will bring my oak wooden dowel with me to work and find someone to teach me the drum spin. Hope I don't put someones eye out.

Have fun folks!
Message: Posted by: Dave McFarland (Oct 29, 2008 10:51AM)
I got over a big hurdle on the Vernon wand spin from Michael Vincent's Tapestry of Deception DVD on the C&B. He doesn't spend a lot of time on the spin, but he gave me just enough pointers to overcome the troubles I was having. But probably the best way to learn this is to find someone who can do it and take you through it. I think it's very hard to learn this from a book or DVD.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Oct 29, 2008 11:00AM)
Thanks Dave, you exactly right about finding someone to take me through it. Many months ago I drove 40 miles to a magic store and asked them if they could show me the wand spin, but they did not know how to do it either. I think my best bet is to find a High School kid who is in the marching band and have them show me.

Have fun folks, and the band keeps marching on.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 29, 2008 11:35AM)
Michael Ammar will be at the TAOM convention next Labor Day weekend. I'm sure he would be glad to break the wand spin down for you.
Message: Posted by: Keith Mitchell (Oct 29, 2008 04:56PM)
That would be a long wait, but by then I might be a Master Jedi Wand spinner. It would be nice to attend the TAOM convention anyway just to be able to meet Micheal Ammar and many others.
Message: Posted by: Levity (Oct 29, 2008 05:53PM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-28 23:35, jconstans wrote:
Rannie's "Boss Wand" is great as well.
It is a solid one-piece wood wand that is slighly tappered in the middle.
I find it aids the spin.
It is not fancy, but a good solid "street wand". It is attractively made and affordable, so you can get a few if you like them.
All the best,
Jeff
[/quote]
Rannie gave me the choice with the Raydu of getting it tapered or not. I decided not to, and have no regrets...it still works well for the spin, on account of the weight.

G
Message: Posted by: rannie (Oct 30, 2008 02:24PM)
Thanks Geoff! The Raydu almost does the spin for you.

Jake is the only one in the world with a Magnum Magus wand. Perhaps he can say something about it.

Rannie
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 30, 2008 03:21PM)
Rannie: Been to your website - can't find any wand info. Is it kept in a secret compartment or what?

Tks

DCB
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Oct 30, 2008 04:59PM)
Do a search here for Rannie's wands ...he has pics of them and you can PM him for details about the various designs.
Mobius
Message: Posted by: Father Photius (Oct 30, 2008 09:09PM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-30 16:21, deadcatbounce wrote:
Rannie: Been to your website - can't find any wand info. Is it kept in a secret compartment or what?

Tks

DCB
[/quote]
It's there on his site. Go to his store. And next to the picture you will see on the left hand side of the screen is a menue on the right. It is in red so on some browsers it may not be as visible, run your mouse over it. The menu will show up and click on wands. Takes you to the pictures.
Message: Posted by: magicorik (Oct 31, 2008 04:07PM)
The one I use is from Frank Starsini and is the "street wand". I really like it.
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 31, 2008 04:25PM)
Magicorik,

Iv'e been playing around with a very old home made wand - weighs just 2 ounces. As opposed to 5 ounces I've been working with... what weight is your "street" wand?

The 2 ounce one works better for me.. anyone have any opinions on weight?

Tks..

DCB
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 31, 2008 04:43PM)
I find that a heavier wand works best for me. I have 3 wands I favour at the moment, order of preference (least to most) is:

Phoenix wand
Wooden wand with brass tips
Wooden wand with stainless tips

That order is also in weight order, the Phoenix being the lightest.

I find the weighted tips help for all the spins I do.

If I have been working with the Pohenix wand and I pick up the stainless tipped one I am okay but vice versa and for the first spin the Phoenix wand usually goes flying!
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 31, 2008 05:18PM)
Mindyourmagic...

Any idea what the actual weights are? My home made one, with brass tips is 2 ounces...

Tks..

DCB
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 31, 2008 05:25PM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-31 17:25, deadcatbounce wrote:
Magicorik,

Iv'e been playing around with a very old home made wand - weighs just 2 ounces. As opposed to 5 ounces I've been working with... what weight is your "street" wand?

The 2 ounce one works better for me.. anyone have any opinions on weight?

Tks..

DCB
[/quote]

My street wand weighs in at 2oz and it's made of canary wood.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Oct 31, 2008 05:38PM)
DCB,

Weights are:

Phoenix a touch under 2oz
Wood / Brass a touch over 2oz (but the weight is all at the end as opossed to the Phoenix which is distributed evenly)
Wood / Stainless 3.5oz (weight at the ends as above)

Now you can explain to my Mrs what I am doing in the kitchen with my wands and the scales!! :goof:

The stainless wand actually needs very little pressure for a drumstick type spin and it's weight carries it around very well. I have tried to find out what weight it is on the net for you but I can't find one the same. I suspect that from looking at pictures it might be a MM one but I can't say for sure.

It was bought at Blackpool magic convention. It must have been a long while ago, I have not been there for at least 5 years.


Bri
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Oct 31, 2008 05:45PM)
MYM,

Thanks for that..It's kind of in line with the one I'm using now. I had a look at the street wands on Frank Starsini's site.. looks to me like a very nice hardwood dowel. But $50 a pop? I'd better be quiet... been shouted down before for having a go at prices... :)
I'm going out tomorrow to get some dowelling, brass tubing, aluminium rod and I'm going to experiment...
Had enough of this fannying around..

Thanks, everyone! I'll let you know how I get on..

DCB
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 31, 2008 06:39PM)
I'm not coming down on you about questioning the price of Frank's sticks, but I think an explanation may be in order.

Canary wood is very expensive. And, of course, it is hand turned. So it costs more.

OTOH, if you get a hickory drumstick, such as a timbale stick, that will cost you about $4.00 for a package of two sticks. The difference -- hickory costs about 1/20 the price of canary wood, and the timbale sticks are turned by machines.

You will also have to cut the timbale sticks to length. You might not like the logos on the sticks, either.

You can go to a lumber yard and buy a dowel for about a buck. But chances are, you won't find a straight one. So you will have to steam it to make it straight.

So, the answer -- quality of the wood and the cost of labor.

You can go to a music store and buy an object that looks remarkably like a violin for about $100. But you won't see anyone in the symphony playing them, because they are not very good ones. It has to do with the quality of the wood and the craftsmanship.
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Nov 1, 2008 06:08AM)
Bill,

I understand and agree completely with all you say.

At this point, I don't know exactly what it is I'm looking for, and buying a wand unseen, and un-tried is a bit like buying a suit in similar circumstances. I'm not quibbling about the cost - honestly ! :) , it's just that I need to find what suits me. I love nice things, like I've said before, and cost isn't a problem - I can easily afford the best. But I want the best that suits me.
In the meantime, I'm doing very well with my home made jobbie, and I'm off today, like I said, in search of materials to make a few new ones....

Regards,

DCB
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Nov 1, 2008 06:16AM)
DCB,
You might want to try Rannie too, he makes beautiful wands.
Bri
Message: Posted by: deadcatbounce (Nov 1, 2008 06:27AM)
MYM,
I'm sure he does, and I'd love to have Rannie and his wands right here.. I'm sure I'd try them, and probably buy more than is sensible..but - I'm holding off till I find out what it is I'm looking for in the way of weight and length. The material (wood, most likely) is a consideration, but it's mainly an aesthetic one.

Regards,

DCB
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Nov 1, 2008 08:52AM)
DCB,
I hear you... That is something I wish I had the luxury of, actually trying wands and buying the one that is right. So far I have one that I like but it's not just so....
Bri
Message: Posted by: Mr. Ray (Dec 8, 2008 11:14AM)
Any good dvd/book to learn some wand spins? And no I'm not able to go to someone who could teach me since I live in Finland...
Message: Posted by: Donal Chayce (Dec 8, 2008 12:10PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-08 12:14, Ben Lejmi wrote:
Any good dvd/book to learn some wand spins? And no I'm not able to go to someone who could teach me since I live in Finland...
[/quote]

"The Magic of Michael Ammar"
Message: Posted by: kentfgunn (Dec 8, 2008 01:01PM)
The other Ammar book:

The Complete Cups and Balls has the best explanation I've ever seen.

I learned it from the Dai Vernon Book of Magic, by Lewis Ganson. If you don't have that book . . . Get it.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Dec 8, 2008 01:29PM)
Another good one that teaches more than just the one spin magicians tend to use can be found here:

http://store.drumbum.com/drumstick-spinology-twirl-spin-drum-sticks.htm
Message: Posted by: Mobius303 (Dec 8, 2008 03:34PM)
There are several cool wand spins.
The "vernon"/ Mora Wand spin is taught on the Ammar Cups and Balls DVD and is the best explanaition as far as ease of learning.

The Williamson or Drummers wand spin is taught in Williamson's book and on video.
Very easy to learn as well.

I can do the wand spins with any wand and wonder why everyone is so hung up on the weight and such. Hollow plastic wands tend not to look as nice as a well made wooden wand. I use a black wand with silver tips made by Milson Worth and many magicians have told me that it is easy to do the wand spins with. I also use a weighted wand from Collector's workshop because it looks classy. Dark wood with brass tips.

Use what you can and learn it with anything you can including chop sticks, drum sticks, wooden dowels. It would be terrible to ruin your expensive one of a kind wand whilest learning this skill.
Mobius