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Topic: Cigarette thru' coin
Message: Posted by: aranaza (Apr 20, 2003 05:03PM)
I have no trouble switching coins at the beginning of the trick as the spectators do not know what I am about to do so are unwary.
I do the penetration and Bobo switch their coin back to them. But what is the best way to clean up the gimmick finger palmed in my hand still! As at this point the spectators are usually burning my hands.

I heard a topit mentioned once as a good method but you need to wear a dinner jacket if I'm not mistaken for this to work, unfortunately I am a casual performer, so I am not sure whether this is suitable prop.
Any ideas on the topit or your ways of cleaning up this gimmick would be appreciated
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Apr 20, 2003 05:49PM)
Routine construction problems tend to get worse when one TRIES to misdirect an audience. This usually devolves into trying to outrun the audience's attention. Agreed, you have a mess there.

What specifically, is your motivation for tossing the coin into the other hand (Bobo switch) in the first place?

The coin is in your hand displayed as the cigarette is removed. The audience is going to react to the 'healing' of the coin.

Any unmotivated motion of action at this point will diminish the effect.

What would you like to accomplish?

Message: Posted by: magic hands (Apr 20, 2003 06:52PM)
Dan Garrett on "any questions" has a great routine.. :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: aranaza (Apr 20, 2003 07:49PM)
After I have penetrated the coin I then show the gimmicked coin and put the ciggarette in my mouth all with my right hand at the same time for misdirection. I then, as I lower my hand, Bobo switch out the coin to give to spectators to examine. I then still have the gimmick finger palmed in my right hand and need to get rid of it without putting my hand in my pocket or wait for everyone to say "show us your hands".

This is my motivation

This is why I might invest in a topit
Message: Posted by: Jason Wethington (Apr 20, 2003 09:30PM)
A very simple and in-expensive way is to have a lighter in your right hand pocket. The cig is already in your mouth, reach into the pocket, ditch the coin and light the cig. Or you could use The "All around vanish" (Gregory Wilson put it out on video but I think it predates him) as you feign searching for a lighter. This way you don't actually go into a pocket conspicuously and you don't have to light the cig.
Hope this helps
Message: Posted by: Paul Sherman (Apr 20, 2003 09:41PM)
Check out Garrett Thomas' handling. I think his initial switch is strong enough that there's a lot less heat on it at the end. It just looks so fair. It can be found on his "Any Questions?" video.

Message: Posted by: mithrius (Apr 20, 2003 10:01PM)
I'm interested in JonTown's question. What exactly is the motivation for tossing the coin from hand to hand? It's not an extremely natural move, and could raise some suspicion.

When I used to perform this, I would do the following moves after the "healing" of the coin:
- Take the coin at the fingertips of the hand containing the finger-palmed coin.
- Return the cig to a person on my left
- As I'm returning the coin to a person on my right for inspection, I thumb-palm the gimmick and drop the finger-palmed coin in their hands
- As they scramble to examine the items, I hook my thumbs into my pockets and drop the thumb-palmed coin in (note that you don't actually put your hands into your pockets at all, and it's a very natural movement)

Any thoughts or improvements?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Apr 20, 2003 10:03PM)

As you noticed...

You have settled on an awkward handling that shifts focus of attention without motivation.

The restoration of the coin is quite striking to an audience, and additional overt handling really does take away from the magic.

The two handlings that worked to my aesthetic involved doing a clean French drop to pass the coin back to the spec who let you borrow their quarter. They need to be standing across from you so the transfer is justified. The other handling I liked involved putting the special coin on the end of the key case thingie, that allowed for a one handed cleanup. Just a little less flexibility on showing the penetration with the second suggestion.

The Bobo switch is quite a good move in the context of a routine where magic is supposed to happen after the coin(s) are put into a tighly held fist etc. Just not the best move in this context.

The Dr. Roberts move might also be useful here, though it's just the wrong time to mess up and have something go flying :)

Message: Posted by: HiraseMagic (Apr 20, 2003 10:14PM)
Tommy Wonder in his book has a very good handling of the gimmick coin.

Jason, searching for a lighter is a very good move!

Message: Posted by: Jason Wethington (Apr 20, 2003 11:06PM)
I agree with Jon regarding the Dr. Roberts method here and the Bobo switch. I saw Bob King mess up with his routine (using the Roberts method) about 5 times in a row. It was embarrasing to watch.

I have never liked the topit's use in routines such as this. I feel there are much better ways (the same can be said for the Roberts method).

In my routine I prefer a subtle switch of the coin. I use the jinx switch. The switch back for me is nice because it is wrapped up in a different effect (same routine). The spectator is holding everything at the end and I am clean. Every aspect has motivation and keeps the attention focused.
Message: Posted by: Turk (Apr 20, 2003 11:56PM)
I still think the switch outlined in Michael Ammar's Encore 1 is the best and most natural that I have seen.

If Encore 1 is not available (out of print?), check and see if it is in any of his later books or tapes.

Message: Posted by: aranaza (Apr 21, 2003 07:37AM)
In reply to mithrius.

I do the Bobo switch at the beginning without the multiple tosses betweeen hands. I just ask for a coin from the spectator as I receive it almost immediately I Bobo switch (no multiple tossing before hand) and drop it into another spectators hand to hold on to while asking for a cigarette to draw attention away from the coin. This way I can very cleanly and at fingertips take the coin the spectator is holding and do the penetration without any switch appearing to take place, which most spectators know must happen somewhere! All this bit is cool with no problem.

After pennetration I do the same drop again undercover of holding the cigarette to give the coin back out for examination. Maybe this is not the Bobo switch as it is written in his bible, but the switch is the same just no tossing between hands before hand just a clean drop.

Out of the replies the lighter sounds like a good idea.

So continuing, I do not toss between hands just from my hand to their hand.

Just what to do with what's left in my hand?
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Apr 21, 2003 11:16AM)
Invest in a feather and you won't have to invest in an immaculate 2nd switch.
Message: Posted by: aranaza (Apr 21, 2003 02:21PM)
What's a feather? Is this a joke?

I mean I know what a regular feather is but how does this disguise the switch??? Rather than a cigarette?

Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Apr 21, 2003 05:18PM)
No, it's not a joke, and it's almost too good to reveal, but here it is.

I originally saw Doug Henning do this on T.V. and I've used this professionally for years (after performing the effect with a cigarette for years before that).

Making a feather penetrate through a coin, versus using a cigarette or any other object, is the ONLY way to go in my opinion because it's more magical and I've found that there is absolutely NO heat on the final switch. Because of the construction of a feather, you pull it all the way through the quarter instead of pushing it in and pulling it out the same side, and spectators see it visually melt through with no evidence of a hole afterwards. The feather compresses as it exits the hole and the tr-- closes with no noise versus snapping shut. Again, I've found that after the penetration is complete, there's NO heat on the switch for the normal quarter because your hand holding the feather does not obscure the view of the quarter DURING THE ENTIRE PENETRATION. Based on my experience (performing the effect for about 30 years) I've found that many spectators do conclude that you switched coins (even if they don't know how) if you use any other object like a cigarette or pen, I believe because the end of the penetration isn't as visual which leads the audience to the solution that you must have switched the regular quarter for a quarter with a hole in it (the "too perfect theory").
Message: Posted by: Curtis Kam (Apr 22, 2003 11:00PM)
I've said it before, I'll say it again....

You want to take the heat off the gaff you're holding out at the end? Don't hand out the quarter for examination. Just table it between you and them, and hand out the other item.

This implies that you do not want them looking at the quarter, which implies that it has not been switched. So when they finally do ask to see the quarter, take back the feather, cigarette, whatever, and stall. Then finally, reluctantly, let them pick it up.

That's when you go south with the goods.

Speaking of, here's something I don't think I mentioned yet: It you're using a Johnson gaff, the best way to clean up is with a PK magnet. 'nuff said.
Message: Posted by: Paul Chosse (Apr 23, 2003 04:08PM)
Here's a little hint:
Think about switching the coin while it is still on the cigarette - the spectator can take the coin from you as soon as the cigarette is apparently free of the coin. There is a VERY deceptive way to do this...

Best, PSC
Message: Posted by: Mago Mai (Apr 23, 2003 07:17PM)
This sounds very clever.
Thanks PSC.

Mago Mai