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Topic: Identify these cups
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 5, 2008 07:05AM)
I recently had the privilige of coming across these cups. Aside from being stunningly beautiful, they fit my hands perfectly size- and weight wise, and I could not be happier.

However I have not been able to identify them yet - and I was hoping that one of the cup experts here would be kind enough to stop by and provide som insight.

Thank you in advance!

Message: Posted by: Eddie Torres (Nov 5, 2008 07:09AM)
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 5, 2008 07:10AM)

...sorry, havn't really got the hang of this yet. There we go!
Message: Posted by: pabloinus (Nov 5, 2008 08:33AM)
Maybe Johnson's in copper? My Brass Johnson's have a hallmark inside JPI think. Take alook
Message: Posted by: BSutter (Nov 5, 2008 08:41AM)
They are not Johnson Copper Cups. There were only 25 sets of those made, all with the JP hallmark. Also the cups in question were spun. Johnson Cups are machined from a billet.

Message: Posted by: ShawnB (Nov 5, 2008 09:05AM)
No clue... But nice find... very nice cups.

They look kinda like Johnson coppers.. but the top is more rounded..

They look like sherwoods kinda with smaller beads..

They look like regular sized chick cups...

Squatty 2's...redheaded cousin????

Like I said I have not clue...

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 5, 2008 09:53AM)
I don't know who made these, either. I have a set of them in the Museum, which I took to the Magic Circle Centenary, and nobody there knew who made them, either. Maybe one day someone will recognize them.

They aren't Johnsons, and they aren't Sherwoods.
Message: Posted by: walid ahumada (Nov 5, 2008 10:08AM)
You might think this cups are squatty 2 or johnson because of the 3 shoulder bead,
but how can you think they are sherwoods when the have only 2 shoulders (beside the rim or lip)
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Nov 5, 2008 10:25AM)
I don't think anyone here thinks they're Sherwoods. They don't have that special saddle design either.

Pretty rough spun too. Might make for a nice texture, but it looks as there was no effort to polish out the spin marks.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Nov 5, 2008 10:46AM)
They look like the JES Squatty 2 prototypes to me.
I say prototype due to the "rough spun" nature as Dave pointed out.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 5, 2008 11:25AM)
The spacing is different on the rings. Also, if these are the same cups I have, the metal is fairly lightweight for a copper cup.
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 5, 2008 11:37AM)
These weigh about 110 grams, with a slight difference from cup to cup. How does that compare to other copper cups?
Message: Posted by: Epiphany (Nov 5, 2008 11:57AM)
They're not JES 2 cups, the roller dad made spins all 3 beads in at the same time and there is no way to adjust them, they're a fixed set of rollers.

I'm not sure what Dave means by rough spin, they are really quite nice from a tooling line point of view. They look as if they were just polished with degreaser by hand after spinning rather than on a satin or abrasive wheel.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 5, 2008 12:05PM)
It does look like slight flaw just below the top ring.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Nov 5, 2008 12:34PM)
I was just commenting on the grooves. You don't see those in highly polished cups like RNT2. Maybe rough was the wrong word.
Message: Posted by: Epiphany (Nov 5, 2008 12:45PM)
Dave those are actually tooling lines from passes when spinning the copper on the form block. The polishing takes those lines out, a satin wheel will satin over them and essentialy just hide the tooling lines.

I didn't realize there was another picture, it looks as if they cracked the bead when rolling it in. I generally roll the shoulder beads in first because the metal has to go somewhere when you roll it, then roll the mouth bead on the cup.

I noticed that in between the beads there is a ledge left behind, these are really tough to avoid and polish out on cups when beading has this spacing restrictions.

So after seeing the second set of pictures, yes ROUGH is a very good word :)
Message: Posted by: Davidicus (Nov 5, 2008 06:56PM)
There was a gentleman about 5-10 years who made some cups exclusivly for Chris Smith of Magic Smith. I believe his name was Fohrman (Forman only spelled differently)?

I believe these are his. I had a set many years ago when I collected cups, but since sold them.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 5, 2008 10:29PM)
Thanks. I have been trying to identify these cups for a long time. I'll put that down tentatively.
Message: Posted by: Davidicus (Nov 6, 2008 07:44AM)
Actually I may need to correct myself. Although I still think they are Fohrman (I know I had a set EXACTLY like these), I did a search and the description doesn't match. Unless the description provided by http://magicref.tripod.com/magref/magcups.htm is out of date:

"Fohrman Cups. Bright Nickel or Gold Nickel flash plated with industrial gold as used on satellites. Designed with the working performer in mind. Each cup cut from a solid block of aluminum, polished, and electroless nickel plated to never tarnish, nick, or chip. Can take a tennis ball load. 6.75oz per cup. With four 1" red crotched balls, velvet drawstring bag. $330.00 Nickel, $495 Gold. Also available: Fohrman Jumbo Load Ball in Red or Green. 2.75 inch crotched tennis balls. $16 "

I'll call Chris and confirm. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Nov 6, 2008 08:32AM)
On 2008-11-06 08:44, DJG wrote:
Each cup cut from a solid block of aluminum....6.75oz per cup.

Wow, that's pretty heavy for an aluminum cup!
Message: Posted by: BSutter (Nov 6, 2008 10:46AM)
The cups pictured were not cut from a block of metal. They were spun from a copper disc.

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 6, 2008 11:56AM)
These probably aren't the Fohrman cups, unless he had someone do a run in spun copper. Mine won't take a tennis ball.

That pages is full of errors, by the way. It really needs updating.
Message: Posted by: Richard Evans (Nov 6, 2008 02:48PM)
I have a set of cups in a similar 3-ring style in a jumbo size. I bought them from a guy who believed he got them in the US in the 90's. Unfortunately, neither he nor I know who made these.
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 7, 2008 01:02PM)
I have done a bit of researching, and apparently they are danish made. I have contacted the dealer I purchased them from to ask the name of the person who made them.

If these are indeed the same you have, Mr Palmer, I will be sure to let you know as well.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 7, 2008 04:58PM)
Please do. I have been wondering about these for a long time.
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 21, 2008 12:10PM)
Alright... these cups were made by an older gentleman in Denmark. A total of ten sets were made. I purchased mine from a danish magic dealer, although I am sure they have found their way to other parts of the world as well.

Mystery solved! :)
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Nov 21, 2008 01:28PM)
They are really nice looking cups.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 21, 2008 02:28PM)
On 2008-11-21 13:10, idstroem wrote:
Alright... these cups were made by an older gentleman in Denmark. A total of ten sets were made. I purchased mine from a danish magic dealer, although I am sure they have found their way to other parts of the world as well.

Mystery solved! :)

Do you have a name for the fellow who made them?
Message: Posted by: idstroem (Nov 26, 2008 01:13PM)
I am afraid not, sir. As my question was rather specific, I must assume that, for whatever reason, he does not want his name spread. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 26, 2008 01:34PM)
That's okay. I know more about these cups than I did a couple of weeks ago!

Thanks, anyway.