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Topic: Decision!
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Dec 2, 2008 08:48AM)
I have noticed that I really enjoy practicing manipulation stage (coin,cards,silk, doves, thimbles etc) I am thinking about focusing on just that and putting everything else down for the moment to create and develope an act.

I have the doves to work with, and a few DVD's on candle, and cards. I am thinking about selling some of the stuff that I don't use have some backing for the act. (still keeping the stuff that pertains to manipulations, and enough stuff to use in the case of bookings etc. ( my regular show stuff)

I am looking into buying DVDs that focus on creating and developing an act, any DVDs on card manipulation, candles, canes, doves etc. Some resources I am looking into include Any and All Jeff McBride DVDs on coins, cards, thimbles, (already own and have practiced stuff from 2 of his DVDs)

Is this a wise choice? If I focus on just this for a while instead of overwelming myself with the general prop stuff etc. I can grow the rest of my show later on from just this one act right?

Looking for your insight!

Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Dec 2, 2008 01:09PM)
A full manipulation act takes lots of work and dedication. It is also time consuming as you need to practice on the various techniques, then work on the presentation of the different routine and also rehearsing the whole act. This will take up most of your time.

It is good to have laser focus on the development of this act. At times you may feel frustrated because you are not getting the results you want. I would suggest that you don't stop the others totally. Also just play around with the props you have, including the close-up items. You don't have to spend a lot of time with those props. This is just to cushion the frustration that may come your way.
Message: Posted by: Paul Jester (Dec 2, 2008 03:58PM)
Wise old man once say "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". I think it is wise advice.
Also what grows slowly tends to grow stronger, more healthy, and lives longer. You want to take your time to allow ideas to grow and change, and you'll draw inspiration from all places. While it might be your main focus and passion for a while, don't lose everything else.
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Dec 2, 2008 04:30PM)
Truth is I don't have much of everything else. I only have about 4 props that are sitting around and don't get used. I was going to keep all my sound, juggling, close up magic, dvds books videos, and regular show stuff. I planned to get rid of a few things in order to back up the act.

Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Dec 3, 2008 04:47AM)

In my honest opinion I agree with James's and Paul's comments.

Maybe before buying a whole bunch of DVD's teaching moves for different manpulations of objets you should start getting a book or a DVD on how to create an original magic act. It leaves nothing open : how to be creative and get inspiration on stage personna, the objects, music, texte...

I'd suggest you the book from Eberhard Riese - "Foundations".

Excellent book for the work on magic acts (stage, manipulations, illusions, parlour, close-up) with plenty of exemples of the real world in magic. This guy works with the best magicians top acts in Germany, like Topas, Roxanne, Junge - Junge, Florian Zimmer, Dr. Morax ...(a few have won FISM).

The book is not very expensive and should help you and Jim Steinmeyer wrote the foreword of this book.

Another idea would be "Encore Magic", the lecture notes from Kyle (he's a café member). Not very expensive, it gives ideas on how to be creative very quickly in the art of presentation, using you existing act to get it on a higher level, and much more.
Very well written with a lot of real world exemples aswell.

Well, I hope I could help you a little bit. Good luck !

Message: Posted by: Anatole (Dec 3, 2008 12:10PM)
I think in many cases books would be more valuable than DVDs in developing an act, because books can go more deeply into the theory and philosophy of developing an act than video can. If a video does bring attention to theory, the reference probably ends up subliminal. Let's face it. David Devant's _Our Magic_ probably wouldn't translate well to video, and that text is one of the real foundations of magic entertainment theory.

It is also interesting to note that many of today's greatest performers owe as much to a mentor as they do a book, although I would guess that a really good mentor would stress the importance of books as well.

Much of the theory expounded in a video is likely to go in one ear and out the other, whereas the theory set forth in a book is more likely to be planted in the brain and the imagination as a seed that will germinate and grow. It's nice that we have Jeff McBride's manipulation videos, but those videos wouldn't even be possible if Jeff hadn't first learned from an actual mentor. I think on his videos, for instance, he credits Denny Haney with teaching him the interlocked card proiducton. Denny would be the first, however, to stress the importance and value of book-learning.

I think it was Marlo who, in his book _Card Fan Productions_, related how in his time the _only_ way to learn card manipulation was from someone who was willing to teach it to you. Don't get me wrong. I think Jeff McBride's videos on manipulation are fantastic and valuable to anyone getting started in developing a manipulation act. And I'm sure that some future FISM Gold Medal/Manipulation winner could likely be the protegé of a video teacher/mentor. But I would hope that these future masters of manipulation will have books as well as videos on the shelves of their homes.

In the field of information science, doomsayers were afraid that the explosion of information technology would lead to a "paperless society" and that books would no longer have a place in the 21st century. But last time I checked, there were lots of printed books and magazines at Walden's and B. Dalton's, not to mention the public library.

I think the proverb "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and you have fed him for a lifetime" applies here, too.

Having said all that, I should also play Devil's Advocate and mention what is called "Dale's Cone of Experience," which states that "people generally remember 10% of what they read, 20% of what they hear, 30% of what they see, 50% of what they hear _and_ see... and 90% of what they do." That last 90% is the most important, of course. Unless they _do_ something with what they learn--whether it be from a video or book--the information is wasted.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 3, 2008 07:05PM)
Oliver: Thank you my friend on your very nice and kind words regarding my ebook, "Encore! Creativity in the art of magic." It is most appreciated. It was written as a part of my full lecture and workshop on the same topic.

I just wanted to be able to show people the importance creativity has in their magic. I also wanted to prove that every perosn has the ability to be as creative as he or she wants to be. If you want to be stronger then you exercise, The same applies to creativity in magic. If you want to be good and better at it, you must exercise creativity.

The fact is so many folks study the moves and the technique and the tricks and effects, but do not study enough about what it is they are trying to "say" to the audience. They forget that your maion goal is to entertain. You canalso entertain with something other then just skill alone.

Thanks again.

Message: Posted by: Oliver Ross (Dec 4, 2008 03:17AM)
You're most welcome Kyle !

Thanks to you. Your e-book has just opened another door to me to make magic more creative and so, more entertaining.
I wish I would have the possibility to see your whole lecture and participate in your workshop.

The good thing about your e-book is, that you give to everyone who's hasn't a lot of money something to work with. And your exemples are no pipe-dreams.

Thanks again.

Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 4, 2008 08:16AM)
Thanks again Oliver. I feel there simply is not enough information out there teaching folks what to do with he tricks they bought or learn. Sure we can find tons of information on how to do a trick or any effect, but there is limited resources out there really showing you how to be more creative with the magic you have. How to really be an entertainer. It is my hope that my ebook and lecture spark people into thinking in new ways and giving them tips and techniques on how to do just that.

I am going to be trying to book the lecture and workshop as many places as I can that may be interested in it. I will certainly keep you posted as things come about. My pleasure to do so.

Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Dec 5, 2008 10:06PM)
Hey Kyle tell me more about your e book

Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 6, 2008 03:08PM)
Hi chaz,

The ebook is called "Encore! Creativity in the art of magic!". It is a longer version of my lecture notes for a lecture I do by the same name. It directly teaches folks how to be better creative thginkers of magic and the magic they do. How to apply simple and direct teh=chniques you can learn easily to be able to create better routines, acts or full shows.

Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Dec 6, 2008 10:18PM)
Where can we purchase your E Book?

Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 8, 2008 02:37PM)
Both ebooks are located and sold through magicEnahncer.com. I will post the links below in the event anyone wants further information. My pleasure to do so.

Chair Suspension Ebook

NEW E-Book: Encore! Creativity in Magic!

Let me know if anyone has any questions.

Message: Posted by: ting (Dec 8, 2008 09:24PM)
I strongly recommend you to get the book "Foundation- Art of Staging Magic"

Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 8, 2008 10:53PM)
If you decide to take up manipulation, see if there is some way that you can make it unique. Otherwise you may end up with just another act that produces huge piles of playing cards and other debris onstage.
Message: Posted by: trickychaz (Dec 9, 2008 08:31PM)
On 2008-12-08 23:53, Bill Palmer wrote:
If you decide to take up manipulation, see if there is some way that you can make it unique. Otherwise you may end up with just another act that produces huge piles of playing cards and other debris onstage.

I agree with you 100% Bill, but also think it is important to learn and research all the fundamentals, and then create from there. (or create as you go)

Thank You for the advice!
Message: Posted by: trashmanf (Dec 11, 2008 01:48PM)
Please keep us updated on your progress, Chaz, we'd like to see any vids of your roughdraft routines. I have posted some of my manipulation acts (I'm still very new to this) and the Magic Café members give great feedback to help shape your act from there.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Dec 11, 2008 02:02PM)
I am always more then happy to assist or give advice to anyone working on a new act or manipulative routine. It would be my pleasure. After all, that is how we learn and grow in this art.