(Close Window)
Topic: Selling Magic
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 05:31PM)
Just would like to ask, what rite do people have to sell classic magic effects?
I mean can you sell cups and balls to people? or Svengali decks? don't other people own these effects?
Message: Posted by: Hansel (Dec 14, 2008 06:06PM)
Be more specific please!
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 06:10PM)
Ok you get a lot of diffrent cheap magic kits at toy shops that all sell the same type of tricks , TT , cups n balls ,svengali.

well what stops me from making Svengali decks and selling them for my profit?
Message: Posted by: Hansel (Dec 14, 2008 06:11PM)
[quote]
well what stops me from making Svengali decks and selling them for my profit?
[/quote]

Nothing!
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 06:13PM)
What about the company that printed the orginall cards? wont they get a bit sad? lol
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Dec 14, 2008 06:19PM)
You're talking about items that are 'public domain'. No one person owns them.
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 06:35PM)
Ok. beacuse I'm a bit skint and need some money so I thought I could sell some Svengali decks to the public? I'm I ok to that?
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Dec 14, 2008 07:00PM)
Yeah, Svengali decks are a popular item to pitch. You wouldn't be alone in doing so...
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 07:06PM)
Anytips on making them fast? like what type of guillotine to use?
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Dec 14, 2008 07:16PM)
I was going to link an old thread on that subject but I noticed when I got to the bottom
you had already posted a question on it earlier this evening LOL!
The idea for going to the printers and having them cut there sounded pretty good.

Yer really going to go to all that effort? Why not just find a wholesale dealer for Svengali decks?
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 07:25PM)
Any links to wholesalers? I found cheapest one for £5 each which is very expensive
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Dec 14, 2008 07:30PM)
Nope but I bet a Café search would turn something up at some point.
That is if you have the patience for that search engine. ;)
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 14, 2008 07:34PM)
Lol ok thanks for help
Message: Posted by: mmreed (Dec 14, 2008 10:30PM)
Check out Don Driver's material... he is the king of Svengali pitching.

And DO NOT make them... you can buy them for dirt cheap - non bicycle design.
Message: Posted by: Douglas Lippert (Dec 15, 2008 12:26AM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-14 23:30, mmreed wrote:
And DO NOT make them... you can buy them for dirt cheap - non bicycle design.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you will also be able to charge less money for those kinds of cards.
Message: Posted by: ditjen (Dec 15, 2008 01:51PM)
Here's a question I've always had but could never get a straight answer:

How do you figure out which things you can or can not put in your magic training videos? For instance, I guess Houdini wouldn't care if I showed the Houdini Color Change. But what about something newer? What about the "Modified" Houdini Color change by Jay Sanaky? Is that copywrited?

How can you tell what is OK to expose in your training and what isn't?
Message: Posted by: JamesTong (Dec 15, 2008 02:14PM)
If the newer materials are trade marked or copyrighted by others, then you can't. If they are not you still need to contact the person who develop the effects/routine/technique for permission, if they want to let you have it.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Dec 15, 2008 03:12PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-14 20:06, Owen Thomas wrote:
Anytips on making them fast? like what type of guillotine to use?
[/quote]

Buy them wholesale from Loftus for less than a buck a pack and pitch them using Don Driver's pitch DVD!

It's not economically feasible to make them, really.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Dec 15, 2008 03:13PM)
[quote]
On 2008-12-15 01:26, DVLKCC wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-12-14 23:30, mmreed wrote:
And DO NOT make them... you can buy them for dirt cheap - non bicycle design.
[/quote]

Yeah, but you will also be able to charge less money for those kinds of cards.
[/quote]

if you're not selling Svengali's in quantity, you're missing the point.
Message: Posted by: homegrown (Dec 15, 2008 06:27PM)
While we're on this debate, how is magic copyrighted and protected? I don't think that you can file a patent on the actual trick, but rather on the presentation of material. I.e. you can't patent the method of how the trick is done, but rather how the trick is presented (but no as far as the exact patter used)

Can anyone provide some clarity?
Message: Posted by: Steven True (Dec 16, 2008 01:17AM)
I was under the assumption that a payent was the actual mechanics of and building of the effect. The copyright is the actual words used in the effect. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Steven
Message: Posted by: thumbslinger (Dec 16, 2008 02:56AM)
Is everybody serious here? After the multitudes of threads across the net, magazine articles, lectures and videos.. nobody still has a laymen understanding of what 'copyright' is?

You know duping a dvd or downloading a torrent of something not in the public domain is actually illegal, right?

The best advice here is to contact an attorney who deals in creative licensing or even just a copyright attorney.

The second basic point is: an idea is not protected by copyright, but the specific execution of an idea is. For instance, the concept of a 'logo' is not something anybody or company can trademark or copyright. The specific Nike swoosh is. Not a swoosh in general, but the specific swoosh Nike uses, as a logo, is.

Concept here means the definition of what a logo is: A graphic mark that is used to identify a company, product or personality. (essentially)

The idea of making a ball vanish is not copyright-able, nor is a card moving, a lady being sawed in half or even a principle such as a Svengali deck.

It usually comes down to execution of a principle/idea. If already you can "Jay Sankey's (fill in the blank)" then that's an easy indicator you need to call someone.

As Jay is a master of, repackaging older effects and slapping your name on them, such as Astral Projection, is what half the stuff seems to be anyway. In Astral, the only thing actually copyrighted would be the name, packaging design and perhaps his actual routine (read: patter).

Just an opinion here folks. In this day and age, people are looking for reason to sue.

If you can find multitudes of the same thing (Svegali decks for instance) chances are it is in the public domain but even still researching copyright and patents, if there are 'plans' involved in building something would provide the most helpful.
Message: Posted by: homegrown (Dec 16, 2008 06:55AM)
Thumbslinger-
I agree with your best advice- if I was serious, I'd certainly contact an attorney. However, just wanted to get other thoughts- different countries have different levels of protection- i.e. Downloading of videos & music cannot be prosecuted in Canada, but certainly can in USA. That being said, I'm not an advocate to go download to your heart's content- I still strongly believe in supporting the artists that make the work.
But all in all I agree with what you said Thumbslinger.
Message: Posted by: Owen Thomas (Dec 17, 2008 09:20AM)
Thanks for replies WOW!

I live in UK Wales, does anyone know of a wholesale in UK?
Message: Posted by: Steven True (Dec 18, 2008 02:15AM)
Thanks for clearing that up for me thumbslinger. I was not sure. So thank you for the correction. Now I have to go and check my dowmloads...that Batman movie is taking forever.......Just kidding.

Steven