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Topic: Cardboard sheets?
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Dec 15, 2008 11:34AM)
Hi, does anyone have any sources, maybe nation wide local places, to get 6 foot tall sheets of cardboard, or any other affordable source to make up some panel illusions?

I do not discount that well painted cardboard can last a long time and be just as effective. That is, that the Grant Victory Carton illusions can still be used by a pro.

Since I do not have time to wait for someone to buy new appliance, I was wondering what is out there.
I need about 2.5'-3' wide by 6'.

I am open to other materials that would be durable, paintable and light weight.
Message: Posted by: reedrc (Dec 15, 2008 11:59AM)
I think Uline does. http://www.uline.com
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Dec 15, 2008 02:14PM)
http://www.uline.com/BL_1851/Corrugated-Pads-Large to be exact! But I think the minimum purchase quantity is a bundle of 50.

Cheers! ;)
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Dec 15, 2008 02:26PM)
Local packaging-supply companies often sell these, but you may need a minimum quantity.
Message: Posted by: Blair Marshall (Dec 15, 2008 03:24PM)
There is no big retail outlet near you?? They usually have lots of boxes left from the floor models, and they do not use them again to reship. Foam core is also a great substitute for cardboard and not too expensive.

Take care.

Blair
Message: Posted by: RJE (Dec 15, 2008 04:00PM)
We have used coroplast with great success in creating some illusions. This is the corrugated plastic (very similar to cardboard) that many smaller signs are made out of. It has great durability and comes in a variety of colours. We buy it by 4' x 8' sheets.
Message: Posted by: Blair Marshall (Dec 15, 2008 05:36PM)
That's what I was referring to also. It is great!

Blair
Message: Posted by: Frank Simpson (Dec 15, 2008 06:11PM)
Actually, Blair, Coroplast and foam core are very different substrates, both used in the signage industry.

Foam core is what its name implies; a core of styrene foam with a paper covering. "Gatorboard" has a harder, clay-coated surface and tends to be more rigid and less prone to bowing than "regular" foam core. It is also a bit harder to cut smoothly, which is best done on a table saw with a veneer blade.

Coroplast is an extruded plastic sheet that is similar to corrugated cardboard in that it is "fluted". It is relatively lightweight and surprisingly durable, although not indestructible.

Depending on the needs and longevity of the illusion, I would be inclined to recommend the Coroplast for greater durability, and unlike foam core, it is not susceptible to moisture.
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Dec 15, 2008 07:23PM)
O.K., guys, here it is. I found this a couple of months ago, and it ROCKS. You can get on their website, and they will send you samples. There you have it. I hope this helps. http://www.alcancompositesusa.com Good Luck, Mike
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Dec 16, 2008 11:41PM)
Thanks for the input so far. The alcan products do seem interesting.

Well I was really asking for ideas for local searches not mail order since these sizes might really be an issue for shipping costs. I could be wrong but I would assume it is considered oversized.

Problem with places around me with appliances is that they destroy the boxes if the customer wants the box removed. I would have to have have a guy on the inside to hold such things which currently I do not.

Is not plastic cardboard hard to get paint to stick long run? Theu used to sell sheets in Staples but no longer. Not sure where to look LOCAL for plastic cardboard. Any suggestions? I am not looking to buy 50 sheets of ANYTHING at the momment. For now I could use the white plastic for this project so would enjoy finding a source within driving distance.
Message: Posted by: Blair Marshall (Dec 16, 2008 11:45PM)
Frank,

Thanks for the clarification, I always thought they were the same!

Blair
Message: Posted by: Frank Simpson (Dec 17, 2008 04:41PM)
Blair-
The only reason I know any of this is because up until a few years ago I worked in a wide-format graphics house, and used these substrates daily! I'm glad to be out of the industry, but the knowledge does come in handy occasionally!

Powermagic-
The Alcan products are great! Their two other substrates that have not been previously discussed here are Sintra which is an expanded PCV plastic board. It tends to be a bit heavy for its size, but it's great stuff. It's available in many colors and thicknesses. It doesn't always accept certain adhesives though, so any decals or paints would have to be tested.

The other is Dibond, which is a plastic-cored board with aluminum facings on it. Kind of like foamcore on steroids. Big steroids. It's available in several finishes and thicknesses. You can create some great boxes by cutting a small channel in the face of the inside of the cut and then bending the corner. It can also be drilled and riveted. Again, it's a little heavy, but not inordinately so, and it looks great. Some care would be needed to preserve the finish, but it oughtn't be too tough.

Local suppliers for large sheets of cardboard are tough to come by. I happen to be fortunate to live near the city where Montana Container Corporation is located. I used to be able to get 5' x 6' sheets of corrugated cardboard locally, even though they were never too thrilled about selling raw stock, especially in small quantities. My suggestion would be to check with your local sign making shops to see about getting coroplast. It is commonly stocked in 4' x 8' sheets, and they would probably be willing to order full sheets of colors that they don't stock.

As far as paint sticking to coroplast, I think it's going to depend on several factors. How much flexing will the panel be subjected to? How much "abuse" will it receive?

The best thing to do is to thoroughly clean a plastic surface with alcohol to remove any residual grease from the manufacturing process, then paint the surface. It ought to be compatible with regular latex or oil-based paints. There are also paints made especially for plastics, such as [url=http://www.plaidonline.com/articleDetail.asp?articleID=110]this one[/url] that I found on a really quick google search for a puppetry forum I frequent.

I think that coroplast is a viable solution for many applications, as long as they're not too heavy-duty. But you'll probably always want to carry touch-up paints with you (a good practice for any illusionist).

Good luck!
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Dec 17, 2008 07:03PM)
I used to tour with a family show, and he had used painted cardboard more than 15 years old. Held up for the most part, and since it was stage, I guess some touch up did not matter. Did you ever see the Thurston Illusion Show Workbook photos? To see those props and the beat up condition some where in makes you think what you can get away with if the lighting is right. Well, I guess for a long time, they did work by candle lights, right? Maybe that is why they could get way with trashed props in what was billed as the WONDER SHOW of the UNIVERSE....


Thanks for the input. I did find, in theory, someone semi-local with an email and waiting to hear if they will sell direct.
I was right to ship 4x8 sheets one place online wanted...$134 EXTRA for 10 sheets. That is, $134 for the freight!!!!
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Dec 17, 2008 08:48PM)
I've used 3/4 insulation sheets from Home Depot also. I painted it up and made an Arabian Tent. I've repainted a few times for different themes. Alcan sells the Dibond that Frank speaks of. You might try calling them to see if they have a distributor local.

Posted: Dec 17, 2008 9:52pm
By the way, I was in Office Max or Depot the other day, and for the 1/8" sheets, they had hinges so you could put panels together and fold them.
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Dec 18, 2008 12:29AM)
Idotrix, do you recall the size of the stuff you saw in the office store and how would one stiffen them if hinged and needed to stand 6 feet, as well has to be covered with cloth on the inside and smooth on the exterior?

thanks
Message: Posted by: IDOTRIX (Dec 18, 2008 01:00AM)
I'd have to know what you're trying to accomplish to help you on that. If you want to PM me a drawing, I might be able to help. I think the sizes were 3' x 4'.
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Dec 18, 2008 10:06PM)
Thanks, it is pretty straight forward. A box 2.5 or 3 feet wide by 6 feet high.


How to attach them together when one needs it to be flat on both sides yet stand 6 feet tall?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 22, 2008 02:10AM)
I get coroplast from the local art supply shop. They carry it in 3 x 4 foot sheets as well as 4 x 8 foot sheets. You can put it together with cloth tape or colored duct tape.

Or you can use glue, for that matter.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Dec 22, 2008 09:43AM)
I have purchased 4'x8' plain coregated cardboard sheets before at art supply stores (although I have to admit, I've never seen them nor asked for them at a national chain like Michaels. It was at a smaller art supply store). I don't think they were out in the open... I had to ask for them. But they stocked them.

I was buying them to make cardboard illusions and mock-ups. I'm not sure what normal artists use them for.

For 4'x8' coloured coroplast sheets, I purchased those at a local plastics shop. Several colours to choose from. They also sold 4'x4' and 2'x4' pieces.

And yes, I purchased one or two sheets at a time when buying the cardboard or the coroplast.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 22, 2008 11:45AM)
I've never seen larger pieces of coroplast at Michael's. Michael's isn't the kind of art supply shop I had in mind. They are really a crafts store. You need the kind of art supply shop that professional graphics people go to. In our area, it's Texas Art Supply. Dick Blick might have it in some of the more northern parts of the US.

Powermagic -- have you tried google? You don't mention where you are located in your profile. Go to google and use the search terms coroplast and the name of your town and state.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Dec 22, 2008 12:03PM)
And just to clarify, I never said there was coroplast (coregated plastic sheets) at Michaels, or to even ask for it there.

It was the cardboard sheets that I found at an art supply store.

And like I said, I have no idea whether Michaels would carry the cardboard sheets, although they carry other art supplies in addition to craft supplies.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Blair Marshall (Dec 22, 2008 12:27PM)
I've bought my sheets at the local renovation center.

Blair
Message: Posted by: Magic Kevin (Dec 25, 2008 09:03PM)
Because Coroplast is used often for signs, sign stores will most definitly carry them. I actually used this material to construct my guinea pig's cage, and I highly recommend it. If anyone here uses guinea pigs in their acts, I am not sure how it would work with other small animals, but go here (http://www.guineapigcages.com/) for more information. Coroplast is flexible but strong, and if you ask nicely at sign stores they might even cut it for you to your needed sizes, as long as its not to many cuts, with their professional cutters. If you tell them its for a magic illusion they might become intrigued and want to help.
Message: Posted by: Martello (Jan 4, 2009 06:17AM)
You may want to try here
http://www.misterart.com/store/view/001/group_id/8049/SPARTECH-Plasticor-Corrugated-Boards.htm
Message: Posted by: coachc (Jan 6, 2009 11:02AM)
If you live close to a glass manufactuer you can get large pieces of cardboard there that they use to transport large plate glass pieces.
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (Jan 6, 2009 11:16PM)
So far I am only waiting from two box makers for a quote. The did not like to work with small orders and only are considering it since I used the magic card which interests them.

Question about the office max hinges. If it hinges, what keeps it locked after the panels are joined? I need to stay relatively flat on both sides.
If standing 6 feet high they need to be ridgid if I am piecing it together and if it still folds down for packing, all the better.

Posted: Jan 8, 2009 12:01pm
Well so far the prices seem high

For single wall 77"x99" a local place wants $35
For double wall (1/4" same size $38.25
He will be willing to cut them for me so I can get 4 panels out of two sheets.
I He also is willing to cut the 99" to the 6' height.

but I will still need some cardboard as a top. SO really I am not sure what a final cost would be.

I will have to price out foam insulation sheets suggested by IDOTRICKS.
I really did not think Cardboard was going to be that expensive.

The problem in part is that we are talking over $100 and the cost of black art material, to not even know if the illusion works or will be ever used again.

I am wondering if this price is way to high for cardboard.

In store sheets might work out better but they still need to be joined in a way that will keep the joint stiff as they stand 6 feet high.

I will have to rethink cardboard.

Posted: Jan 8, 2009 12:08pm
Ahh turns out a grammar school friend owns a shower door company. He said I could go through his dumpster. They get shower doors in 6 foot boxes. He said it is single core but pretty stiff. Hopefully I can find the enough pieces.

Posted: Jan 8, 2009 12:11pm
BTW thanks coachc for suggesting glass people. The first few I called did n0t get their glass in cardboard but suggested shower door companies which it turned out right in the next town over I found a childhood friend so as long as the sheets are not all busted up I can make them work. And probably will put more work into making them works since they did not cost an arm and a leg. However I suspect I might not get all the pieces in one day. It depends how busy my friend gets.

Posted: Jan 10, 2009 9:56am
No luck really from the shower guy. Box single wall and already folded or the other was 30" wide and did not have two to give. 36" I decided was better.

Then I stopped at an appliance store, home depot, AC Moore, Sears Hardware, and Lowes to find refridge boxes. No luck. Most say they remove them and bail them instantly so it is just luck of the draw since they do not save them.
I did take two dishwasher boxes which maybe I can make work. They are only 30" 48" tall so can cut them into two 36" boxes which will help with transport.


Now I just need the best way to join them but still be able to break down.
I have some thoughts but curious what others would do.

Thanks