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Topic: Will The U.S. Economy Recover?
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 5, 2009 10:20PM)
I didn't write this, but I hope to God this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. In fact, we had all better hope and pray he's dead wrong:

WILL THE US ECONOMY RECOVER?

For some years I have been writing about the impending economic collapse of the USA and the Anglo-Saxon nations. This economic collapse is now unfolding. What will be the impact on the global economy, and can it be saved?

The key reason why the world is facing this economic crisis is that some nations have been spending far more than they earn, while others have been accumulating large surpluses that can be invested in productive enterprises providing a genuine return on capital. These imbalances have created major distortions in the global economy with which the world is now coming to terms. While thousands of words have been written by economic analysts, this is the bottom line:

The fundamental cause of the current global economic crisis is that for many years the Anglo-Saxon nations have been living way beyond their income, relying on borrowing money from their creditor nations to cover their trade and current account deficits. Our leaders have failed to warn their people that we could not live on borrowed currency indefinitely, and eventually we would be required to pay back the borrowed currency. Yet still they fail to face up to facts and tell the people that the Anglo-Saxon nations cannot continue maintaining their extravagant lifestyle financed by borrowing from the rest of the world.

Our political leaders seldom mention the reality of having to earn export income to service their international balance of trade deficits. They have convinced themselves that our trading partners will continue to accept their printed money in return for their goods and services purchased. With the global economy now slipping into a deeper recession, the prospects of the Anglo-Saxon economies being able to trade their way out of their current economic morass grow bleaker by the day, as the export markets for goods and services from the Anglo-Saxon world disappear, making it impossible to repay their foreign creditors with anything but depreciating paper money.

Recently, Britain, the USA, Australia and New Zealand governments have gambled by guaranteeing bank deposits to prevent a run on their banking systems.and partly to maintain confidence with their overseas creditors. They have created currency though the banking system to maintain adequate liquidity for the financial markets to remain operating, and have been willing to advance capital to the private sector to finance loss-making companies and financial institutions. What is not mentioned is that creating fiat currency to solve their immediate economic problems will not solve the long-term financial problems their nations face - it is like throwing fat on the fire, and will only lead to a more serious collapse of their currencies and economies.

These governments approach the current crisis by encouraging the consumer to spend more to create demand for goods and services. Yet already many people are already struggling with the cost of servicing debt, and the only way out is to increase real incomes - something that is difficult in a contracting market, with rising costs. For governments to encourage their people to borrow and spend is like taking an alcoholic to the bar, and paying for his drinks, telling him to get drunk. As a result, they now run the risk of national bankruptcy, defaulting on their international debt obligations.

Why has the world gotten itself into this economic crisis? Can the Anglo-Saxon nations recover from this financial train wreck? The media is filled with countless reports on the current economic crisis, what has caused it, and what the solutions could be. Yet none of these modern-day seers have been able to accurately answer the following questions: What are the causes of this economic crisis, what are the solutions, and what will happen?

Many are hoping that there will be a recovery in the markets that will save us from a global economic collapse. Nearly all nations are desperately trying to stimulate economic activity through a mixture of government spending, borrowing, printing money and creating bank credit. Yet nothing appears to be working as the economic news around the world continues to worsen.

Meanwhile several nations, especially Japan and China have put in place measures in an effort to stimulate their domestic economies. Those countries, which have the reserves to do this, may need to withdraw their investments from their Anglo-Saxon debtor nations to prop up their domestic economies. This will greatly affect the English-speaking nation's ability to revive their economies, which have become dependent on the inflow of capital from Asia to finance their banking systems. This would result in the collapse of the Anglo-Saxon banking system, unless they are nationalized by the governments who have guaranteed the deposits. The Western Governments themselves run the risk of becoming insolvent, and will be dependent on their Central Banks to create more credit for their banking institutions, resulting in debasing the value of the currencies.

Many governments around the world have increased the supply of their currencies in a desperate attempt to save their economies from unraveling, resulting in massive unemployment, corporate collapses, government insolvencies, and personal bankruptcies. Will these measures work? While to date there is little sign that this government intervention has had any success, the amount of currency injected into the banking system is expected to have some short-term impact in the New Year. This will inflate paper asset values to prop up the collateral for the banking system. However, the biggest impact will be on the value of currency. Increasing the money supply without a corresponding increase in goods and services will result in debasing the value of that currency. Hyperinflation will quickly set in.

There may well be a sharp but short recovery in the New Year as this flood of newly-created fiat currency finds its way into the consumer's pockets. Sadly, this recovery will only be short-lived as inflation takes hold and these paper notes depreciate in value. The American dollar as the world's major reserve currency will no longer be accepted in that role once inflation gains momentum and international creditors lose confidence in the US economy. The dollar will quickly spiral downwards in value to rival that of the Zimbabwe currency. The collapse of the dollar will result in the disintegration of the American society.

There has been a failure on the part of the Anglo-Saxon nations (with the exception of Canada) in regard to addressing the cost of servicing their large and growing external debt and current account deficits. Inflating their currency supply will make it easier for those with dollar debts to repay them, but in the process it will destroy the confidence of their creditors who will suspend lending credits to cover their deficits. This will see the collapse of the US dollar along with several other currencies which run parallel to the USD in the global economy.

What is occurring globally is a realignment of the major world economies with a shift in wealth away from the crumbling Anglo-Saxon economies to the Eurozone and the emerging Asian nations. What will this new economic order mean to the world?

The Eurozone will be the region that will recover quickest. This region is the world's largest economy, and is able to create sufficient volume of trade internally enabling it to recover more quickly from the current recession than other economies. While most of the EU members are creating stimulus packages, Germany is adopting a more conservative approach, reluctant to inflate their money supply without an increase in productivity, having lived through the consequences of hyper-inflation in the past. It is Germany, the largest exporting nation in the world and the largest economy in the EU, which is sitting on generous foreign reserves. By taking a cautious approach, it will be in better position to provide the pillars for a strong Euro.

There is no doubt that the export driven Asian economies will be severely affected by the collapse of the US economy and will take some-time to readjust by shifting to greater emphasis on trade within Asia and developing their domestic infrastructure. Increasing expenditure on the military is one option for those countries which have the resources to do so. In particular Japan, Germany and China may well decide to expand their defense budgets to create employment in their manufacturing sector to replace income from their declining export markets, to enable them to maintain their manufacturing base.

The outcome will be a new world economic order, dominated by the Eurozone, lead by Germany. The new European power block will replace the dominance the Anglo-Saxon nations have held on the global economy for the last 200 years. The Euro is the only currency large enough to replace the $US as the world's reserve currency.

Modern-day economists who believed that they could defy natural economic cycles through central bank and government intervention will be shown that their theories have failed.

The Bible has given us specific economic laws that will ensure prosperous, sustained communities where the wealth is shared with equity and prosperity and can be in the reach of all mankind. In brief, these laws require debts to be written off every 7 years, interest not to be charged within domestic economies, investors to take equity investments rather than lend money, and if land is used as collateral it is to be returned to the original land owners after 50 years. Government and welfare to be funded with a flat tax not exceeding 14% of income.

These economic laws have been provided to ensure we would have prosperity and equal distribution of wealth. It would mean that the parasitical banking system we have today would not be necessary. Institutions that have emerged such as hedge funds, future trading, derivates, and currency speculation would not have been able to develop under such laws.

There will emerge a new world economic order from this crisis. There will emerge a new EU based World Central Bank (modeled along the lines of the ECB), which will restore global economic prosperity and order. This new institution will replace the World Bank, the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) and the IMF with the authority to regulate the global economy and direct capital into productive infrastructure ventures, rather than the Anglo-Saxon market-driven model that allowed capital to have the freedom to speculate rather than produce.

This will mean a much more regulated economy than that with which we have become familiar, and many of the personal freedoms we now take for granted will be denied. In particular the debt-ridden Anglo-Saxon nations will be subjected to many regulations which will mean that the people will be subject to virtual slavery.

The suffering of the people of Britain and the USA following their economic collapse will be sudden and far worse than many can imagine. Our people, who have had so much in the past, will find it very difficult living in third-world poverty, where they do not know where their next meal will come from, where there is a total break-down in law and order, and there is a complete social anarchy. The curse being bought upon the Anglo-Saxon people is a direct result of their rejection of the Law of God.

The events now unfolding have historic significance. We are seeing the emergence of a new world order that will enforce the promulgation of a global economy, with one reserve currency. It will mean the end of many of the freedoms we now take for granted. It will be a time of great suffering for the Anglo-Saxon people as their economies collapse, and they face starvation, poverty and wide-spread disease. It will be the precursor for the time the Bible describes as the Great Tribulation.

Bruce Porteous

1 Jan, 2009
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (Jan 5, 2009 11:39PM)
Yep- it'll recover. Once China buys our production base and gives us all jobs at $2.50 an hour- for the good of the people, of course.

-Erik
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jan 6, 2009 12:00AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-05 23:20, daffydoug wrote:

I didn't write this, but I hope to God this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. In fact, we had all better hope and pray he's dead wrong:

[/quote]

He hasn't a clue. Any economist referring to Anglo-Saxon Nations and Biblical Economics is and End-Times Quack and thus hasn't a real good grasp of reality.
Times are going to be tough but it ain't no Tribulation.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 6, 2009 12:05AM)
The guy who wrote that piece is an idiot who does not understand the situation, causes, or how it will be resolved. As soon as I saw 'Anglo Saxon' I knew it would be a waste of time reading and it was.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 6, 2009 01:45AM)
He sure doesn't have his facts straight - Australian banks are very well regulated and the only reason our government had to step in was that credit dried up internationally.

We have compulsory superannuation and thus substantial savings.

I don't know enough to comment regarding what he says about other countries but what he says about where I live tells me he's not big on facts.

Destiny
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 6, 2009 01:45AM)
I believed that so strongly I posted it twice :)
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Jan 6, 2009 10:41AM)
"An economist's opinion is just as good as anyone else's."
-Will Rogers

"Hard to say...always in motion is future."
-Yoda

Anyone can pontificate, but nobody knows.

As the guru said about worrying if that this or that (good or bad) would happen in the future:

"Maybe so...maybe not."
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 6, 2009 10:48AM)
No it will not recover. The sky is falling, things always get worse and everyone will die. Oh and it is all the republicans fault.

Oh wait, Obama was elected. Utopia on the 21st. Yep it will recover.
Message: Posted by: Scott Cram (Jan 6, 2009 11:27AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-06 11:41, Steve_Mollett wrote:
"An economist's opinion is just as good as anyone else's."
-Will Rogers

"Hard to say...always in motion is future."
-Yoda

Anyone can pontificate, but nobody knows.

As the guru said about worrying if that this or that (good or bad) would happen in the future:

"Maybe so...maybe not."
[/quote]

"What this country needs is a good one-handed economist."
-Harry Truman, after hearing an economic forecast qualified with, "On the other hand . . ."

"It is not going to be quick. It is not going to be easy to [b]dig ourselves out of the hole[/b] that we are in."
-[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bw2McX8YsY]Barack 0bama[/url]

"We'll dig our way out!"
-Homer Simpson, when asked by Otto how they were going to get out of the deep hole into which they'd dug themselves.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 6, 2009 08:08PM)
There's a little Homer in all of us.
Message: Posted by: abc (Jan 6, 2009 11:01PM)
If you really understand economics and currency then how on earth can you even attempt to compare the US dollar to Zimbabwe's currency.
If this guy gets out of his office and buys a newspaper or even reads online he will see that China has as many problems as the US if not more.
China will collapse way before the US collapses because of political instability and the notion that China and Japan are not feeling the credit crunch or only have to make a few adjustments are absolute rubbish.
While I am a religious person (sorry Payne) the notion that we need to live according to biblical laws should then also mean we need slaves, we shouldn't eat pork or shelled seafood etc. Contrasting this financial crisis to Biblical laws not only shows a limited understanding of the current problem and the recovery mechanisms in place, it also shows a disregard and complete misunderstanding of the socio-economic times in which the Bible was written.
I hope everyone who reads this is very afraid because that was obviously the writer's only aim.
Great find Mr Daffydoug but I think this is a mathematician trying to write a qualititive analysis on something with way to many variables to understand.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 6, 2009 11:51PM)
In a nutshell what will turn the economy around is what typically has in the last few decades. Keep in mind companies use this type of economic situation to clear up deadwood and to 'restructure', usually they foul it up, and that is why the lay offs are so common. Hey, lets face it, if you clear the deadwood now no one really notices. Companies will start to run out of inventory and have to purchase more. The suppliers will start to churn out more product and hire people, often those they got rid of (my former employer laid off a bunch of people in the early 90s with good packages and all were hired back inside of six weeks because the market shifted so quickly). Those suppliers will need to purchase new test and manufacturing equipment and those manufacturers will buy more parts from their customers who are also their venders. Companies will start to buy new computers because they are wearing out right now. The employees will start buying new consumer goods, which is very important, and cars. Those companies will have to buy more parts to build their goods and hire people to make them. Folks will start going on vacations and restaurants again, those industries will kick into gear and their employees start buying consumer goods etc.. The goal is to get people back to work and purchasing goods. I'm not real concerned about the banks and those guys, they will do as well as the public does.

It is a cycle and while I don't know if it is still current the book Megatrends, which follows the cycles very well, goes over this.
Message: Posted by: Platt (Jan 7, 2009 12:31AM)
While I didn't have the patience to read his entire diatribe, he's not saying much that hasn't been said. He's just taking the end result to the extreme. Anything's possible. And noboby can predict the future. Nobody. The highest paid economists and wall street gurus have repeatedly done worse with predictions than randomly throwing darts at a stock page. I'm going to put these following words in all caps and use exclamation points because it's fun to do that sometimes:

IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO CONTINUALLY INVEST IN THE US (OR ANY OTHER ANGLO OR NON-ANGLO ECONOMY), YOU WANT TO HEAR DIRE NEWS LIKE THAT POSTED ABOVE. YOU WANT HEADLINES READING "THE SKY IS FALLING." YOU WANT ALL THE JIM CRAMERS, SUZY ORMANS, AND EVEN TOM FRIEDMANS SCREAMING WE'RE IN DEEP TROUBLE!

Why should we, as investors (not neccessarily retirees or those looking for a stable job market) smile and feel good when we hear this tone? To put it in the most simple language: Because when this is the sentiment, things can't get any worse. To go a little deeper, market valuation is based on speculation of where we will be in about six months. And as I mentioned earlier, nobody, absolutely nobody can call the market or project future economic conditions with any more certainty than I can predict the weather. So embrace the fear mongers. Embrace the icky editorials. For it's this fear and over-the-top negativity (the polar opposite of irrational exuberance) that gives us fire sales- the kind of buying opportunities that come along once in a lifetime.

By the way, following this logic, if enough people people are saying what I'm saying here, that's a bad sign too. So paradoxically, consider this the kind of post you don't want to read. Sorry. May more negativity follow.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 7, 2009 02:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-06 01:00, Payne wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-05 23:20, daffydoug wrote:

I didn't write this, but I hope to God this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. In fact, we had all better hope and pray he's dead wrong:

[/quote]

He hasn't a clue. Any economist referring to Anglo-Saxon Nations and Biblical Economics is and End-Times Quack and thus hasn't a real good grasp of reality.
Times are going to be tough but it ain't no Tribulation.
[/quote]

yeah man... "Give Unto Caesar That Which is Caesar's..."? "...a Tooth for a Tooth"?

Those don't sound like good investment strategies to me!
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 7, 2009 02:37AM)
Germany's richest man killed himself two days ago.

That's also a pretty good investment strategy. It's a sure thing.

Well, it can be.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 7, 2009 03:07AM)
Stoney,

'Killed himself' is a bit strong - he just went for a walk, on a train line, when the train was due...

Destiny
Message: Posted by: Nosher (Jan 7, 2009 08:52AM)
'Brother' Bruce Porteous is a little known god-walloper from New Zealand. He has been predicting various catastrophes about to befall the "Anglo-Saxon nations"(tm) for some time.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 7, 2009 11:17AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 09:52, Nosher wrote:
'Brother' Bruce Porteous is a little known god-walloper from New Zealand. He has been predicting various catastrophes about to befall the "Anglo-Saxon nations"(tm) for some time.
[/quote]

read= god fearing WHITE nations...
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 7, 2009 01:24PM)
I admit it, I like it when the super rich are killed or jailed.....
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Jan 7, 2009 03:24PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 00:51, MagicSanta wrote:
In a nutshell what will turn the economy around is what typically has in the last few decades. Keep in mind companies use this type of economic situation to clear up deadwood and to 'restructure', usually they foul it up, and that is why the lay offs are so common. Hey, lets face it, if you clear the deadwood now no one really notices. Companies will start to run out of inventory and have to purchase more. The suppliers will start to churn out more product and hire people, often those they got rid of (my former employer laid off a bunch of people in the early 90s with good packages and all were hired back inside of six weeks because the market shifted so quickly). Those suppliers will need to purchase new test and manufacturing equipment and those manufacturers will buy more parts from their customers who are also their venders. Companies will start to buy new computers because they are wearing out right now. The employees will start buying new consumer goods, which is very important, and cars. Those companies will have to buy more parts to build their goods and hire people to make them. Folks will start going on vacations and restaurants again, those industries will kick into gear and their employees start buying consumer goods etc.. The goal is to get people back to work and purchasing goods. I'm not real concerned about the banks and those guys, they will do as well as the public does.

It is a cycle and while I don't know if it is still current the book Megatrends, which follows the cycles very well, goes over this.
[/quote]

Quite right. We now have this concept called Lean Manufacturing, a useful approach if applied correctly.
Unfortunately, most companies TALK of using Lean strategies, but then fall into the old "wastefulness in good times; layoffs in bad" approach. They don't PLAN and follow the plan; they just REACT. Short-term instead of long-term; reaching over a dollar to pick up a dime.

Is it any wonder "Dilbert" hits so close to home?
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 7, 2009 04:04PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 09:52, Nosher wrote:
'Brother' Bruce Porteous is a little known god-walloper from New Zealand. He has been predicting various catastrophes about to befall the "Anglo-Saxon nations"(tm) for some time.
[/quote]
The truth comes out!
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 7, 2009 04:40PM)
Steve Mollet! Oh could we talk!! You are someone I can relate to.

Magic Santa <---SPC, TQM, Six Sigma, APICS, Master of the LEAN method yet worked for a company that's idea of LEAN was not being straight up and down.
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Jan 7, 2009 08:46PM)
I hear you.

Steve Mollett <--- KM, RCCA, LEAN, worked with Six-Sigma teams on projects.

Oh, and currently unemployed due to the most recent layoff.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 7, 2009 08:49PM)
[quote]I admit it, I like it when the super rich are killed or jailed..... [/quote]

Only time I like to knit.

Destiny
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Jan 7, 2009 08:53PM)
You break out the knitting needles, DeFarge, and I'll set up the guillotine.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 7, 2009 08:56PM)
I'm unemployed too! Those ungrateful mutha.....oh wait, my company actually left the coast and did offer me a job but the manager who did was insulting so I told him to shove it I'd have another job in a week or so! That was Oct of 2006!
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Jan 7, 2009 09:02PM)
Living entirely on gigs, or other 'ways & means' as well?
Message: Posted by: abc (Jan 7, 2009 10:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 17:04, daffydoug wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 09:52, Nosher wrote:
'Brother' Bruce Porteous is a little known god-walloper from New Zealand. He has been predicting various catastrophes about to befall the "Anglo-Saxon nations"(tm) for some time.
[/quote]
The truth comes out!
[/quote]
Well, there is also a Bruce Porteous that works for Standard life Bank in Scotland and I immediately assumed it was him who wrote that and send an e-mail to an old colleague asking how someone with so much power and intelligence can write something so stupid. The reply was that it must have been another Bruce Porteous and obviously it was.
I take back what I said in my previous post.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jan 8, 2009 04:47PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 21:56, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm unemployed too! Those ungrateful mutha.....oh wait, my company actually left the coast and did offer me a job but the manager who did was insulting so I told him to shove it I'd have another job in a week or so! That was Oct of 2006!
[/quote]

When I was a typesetter, graphic artist, the company (Artmold-The Action Line) got purchased by another promotional company (Norwood Promotions - *spit*) who told us our identity as an individual company was not in jeopardy! (Start printing out those resumes, guys!) Two years later, Artmold-The Action Line, a Norwood Company was Norwood-The Action Line and when our lease was up, we were told that all the equipment and contracts were being sent to Indiana! If we wanted to, we could apply for permission to move to Indiana if they felt they needed us! Like MagicSanta, I thought; "I'm a trained professional, I can get a job in six months!" 11 months later, on my last unemployment check, Wal*Mart asked me to join them for "the holiday season." I accepted and just recently received my five-year pin! *sigh*
Message: Posted by: calamari (Jan 8, 2009 05:33PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 17:40, MagicSanta wrote:
Steve Mollet! Oh could we talk!! You are someone I can relate to.

Magic Santa <---SPC, TQM, Six Sigma, APICS, Master of the LEAN method yet worked for a company that's idea of LEAN was not being straight up and down.
[/quote]

TQM god that takes me back quite a few years...
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jan 10, 2009 10:24AM)
"IOUSA, an excellent documentary on American debt, taxes, saving and spending. It projects the time until U.S. economic collapse, and explains what we need to do now, to avoid it. David Walker, Comptroller General of the USA, compares US to Rome."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0E-fwdyS-w&NR=1

Roger Ebert's review of the movie, IOUSA

[url]http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080821/REVIEWS/329/1001/reviews[/url]

Apparently CNN is showing the movie in full later this weekend. Check your listings.
Message: Posted by: marknem7 (Jan 11, 2009 04:20PM)
Has the U.S. ever had an economic setback which hasn't brought out the doom-and-gloomers?

At the age of 56, I've lived through too many of these cycles (admittedly the current one being a little scarier than many) to fall prey to this strain of end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it blather.

Fortunately, most of the hysteria whipped up in October by certain controlling people in Washington (again), and unquestioned (once again) by our now-spineless news media, seems to be easing. Maybe it's universal human nature, but the majority of Americans have more than demonstrated themselves over the last eight years to be gullible and easily spooked.

I say don't join the thundering herd. I can almost guarantee you'll end up regretting it.
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 11, 2009 04:38PM)
How long before someone here repeats the FOX "News" mantra:
[i]"FDR and the New Deal Only Lengthened the Depression..."[/i]?
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jan 11, 2009 05:06PM)
I agree that the end of the world and biblical prophecy talk is unwarranted.

On the other hand, it seems a few people here keep insinuating that all is basically well and that the present financial crisis is just the latest worry of the week.

I'd remind them that this financial crisis story / worry of the week has been ongoing now for more than a year, and it has steadily been growing worse. Already worse than almost anyone (except a very few true contrarians) might have first imagined.

Incidentally, the I.O.U.S.A. movie I mentioned above is from last summer ... BEFORE the recent trillion plus dollar bailouts. Things certainly have not improved.

Anyone see the latest U.S. unemployment news?

---

WASHINGTON (AFP) ó US unemployment surged to a 16-year high of 7.2 percent as a deepening recession pushed employers to shed a massive 524,000 jobs in December, capping a yearly loss of 2.6 million, data showed Friday.

The job losses over the course of 2008 were the most in a year since 1945, the Labor Department said. Some 1.9 million were lost in the past four months alone as the credit crisis worsened.

The agency also revised up the number of job losses for the prior two months. The October figure was changed to show a loss of 423,000 jobs from 320,000 and November's data to a loss of 584,000 from 533,000.

The jobless rate, calculated on a separate household survey, climbed to 7.2 percent, the highest since January 1993, from 6.8 percent a month earlier.

---
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 11, 2009 06:42PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 17:38, gaddy wrote:
How long before someone here repeats the FOX "News" mantra:
[i]"FDR and the New Deal Only Lengthened the Depression..."[/i]?
[/quote]

Oh let me, whether it is true or not.
Message: Posted by: evolve629 (Jan 11, 2009 07:22PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 17:20, marknem7 wrote:
but the majority of Americans have more than demonstrated themselves over the last eight years to be gullible and easily spooked.
[/quote]
Madoff comes to mind. Be careful who you trust.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 11, 2009 08:01PM)
This situation has been coming for awhile. The situation was set up in the 80's so those thinking events in the last eight years is the big problem are naive. You have a combination of the oil industry causing all cost to go up a high percentage compared to what would have been expected w/out their help (note I predicted all the nonsense of the last year). Corporations are using this as an excuse to reduce their work force. Many industries are lost forever and now reside in China and India, thanks to the govt in the US in the 90s. Lastly the media loves this, they are hoping for soup lines and mass suicides. Bad sales and they, the media, are pushing the dooms day angle. It really has no choice but to turn around because people will eventually have to start buying consumer goods again. The economy is a big machine and think of it as different cogs working together and they all don't start grinding away at the same time, one will effect the other until the machine is working again. Listen, I've been out of work for over two years (except for one quarter where I worked for criminals) but I have faith things will come back, I'm hoping for soon, and they will.

Frankly I don't care about big investors who lost money with guys like Madoff. Remember, it takes a bit of larceny in the hearts of the victim before they call fall for the con. I, like most of you, just want to work, earn a living, and hopefully put some away so we don't starve while waiting to die of old age.
Message: Posted by: kregg (Jan 11, 2009 09:48PM)
The only thing that will prolong this slow grind is if the American people develop a long term memory.

Perhaps the new season of American Idle * will save them from their gaping existence . ;)

*intended.
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 11, 2009 10:11PM)
Dude, I forgot American Idol starts again soon!
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 11, 2009 11:21PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 22:48, kregg wrote:
The only thing that will prolong this slow grind is if the American people develop a long term memory.


[/quote]

I agree, we need to develop a, uh, look! something shiny.
[img]http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5553/nekidiceaxermv8.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 11, 2009 11:52PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-12 00:21, Josh Riel wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-11 22:48, kregg wrote:
The only thing that will prolong this slow grind is if the American people develop a long term memory.


[/quote]

I agree, we need to develop a, uh, look! something shiny.
[img]http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5553/nekidiceaxermv8.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Is that a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfqNXADl3kU]HAMSTER[/url] eating a piece of POPCORN? LOL!!!111!!!!
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 12, 2009 12:44AM)
Is that John McCain finishing off Sarah Palin?

Destiny
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 12, 2009 12:57AM)
Good one Destiny!


Idol should be good, more back room stuff will be shown. My friends sister was on it a few years ago and he told me great stories about the mothers of the kids being monsters and all that stuff.
Message: Posted by: abc (Jan 12, 2009 11:46PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-12 01:57, MagicSanta wrote:
Good one Destiny!


Idol should be good, more back room stuff will be shown. My friends sister was on it a few years ago and he told me great stories about the mothers of the kids being monsters and all that stuff.
[/quote]
In my younger years I did a lot of competitive latin and ballroom dancing. You should see the mommies and daddies then. The judges are cheating, the technique is bad, they have no presentation skills bla bla bla. We used to make fun of them. Bunch of idiots.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Jan 13, 2009 12:57AM)
I bet. Other than the mothers being nuts the one story I remember is at the last night party where loads of 'celebs' were there. My friend is a teacher and great guy, very friendly...he told me the ONLY celeb that gave him the time of day was Henry Winkler (The Fonz).
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 11, 2015 06:08PM)
Six years later it's funny to look back and see how wrong you guys were!!!!! ROTFLMAO
Millions more have lost their homes, a record $17 trillion in debt, a record 94 million Americans unemployed, a record number of people on Food Stamps (EBT), a record number of illegal aliens, a record expenditure on welfare ... a record number of retirement funds at risk in the stock market, S&P US credit dropped, one is six in poverty.... SIX YEARS later and it's even WORSE!!!!!

And you wonder why I doubt you?
Message: Posted by: R.S. (Aug 11, 2015 06:48PM)
ANOTHER 6 year old thread??? Slim, this is getting embarrassing for you. Especially since the economy has [I]improved[/I] from 6 years ago when we were in an OFFICIAL recession. Thanks for resurrecting this one! ROTFLMAO!! :-)

Ron
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 11, 2015 07:01PM)
The economy SUCKS!!! Over 94 million Americans unemployed and one in six in POVERTY.....
Message: Posted by: imgic (Aug 11, 2015 07:14PM)
Who are you ranting about? Who was wrong?

And Slim, why are you complaining? Evidently economy is well enough that folks are hiring Blues Brothers impersonators to the point you can take your family on vacations...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 11, 2015 07:35PM)
While improvement might be slower than wanted it has improved.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 11, 2015 08:17PM)
It's turtles all way down.

But neither major party has a clue how to stop it; indeed it's not even clear they wish to.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 11, 2015 09:03PM)
[quote]On Aug 11, 2015, imgic wrote:
Who are you ranting about? Who was wrong?

And Slim, why are you complaining? Evidently economy is well enough that folks are hiring Blues Brothers impersonators to the point you can take your family on vacations... [/quote]
I paid for my extravagant vacation by selling a magic effect to a world class performer.The Blues Brothers just pays the bills.
If the economy was back to normal I wouldn't have to sell my secrets at all.
After taking $800 billion dollars for the Stimulus Package and all of those Shovel Ready Jobs it's got to be the biggest failure I've ever heard of. That's over $4,000.00 per tax payer...... Did you get your moneys worth?

BTW ... I may have to sell another secret to pay for my next vacation... Such a sad situation. :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: The Hermit (Aug 11, 2015 10:32PM)
I don't see a problem. I am currently emailing with a Nigerian prince and apparently there is millions available if I loan him a few hundred bucks. I'll be on easy street soon.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (Aug 12, 2015 05:50AM)
[quote]On Aug 11, 2015, Slim King wrote:
The economy SUCKS!!! Over 94 million Americans unemployed and one in six in POVERTY..... [/quote]

If it sucks now, what was it 6 and a half years ago when the unemployment rate was 8%, the Dow Jones, was at around 8000, and we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs per month?

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/us/

This shows that this administration created 7.7 million jobs compared to 1.28 million for the last administration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

Granted, there is still a huge wage gap, earnings could be higher, and the poverty rate has not changed much (although there has been a slight decrease), the economy has demonstrably improved.

And that "94 million unemployed" is a BIG FAT LIE!!! [b]The correct number is 8.266 million[/b], as in my first link. Even plain old common sense would tell you that in a country of 325 million people, after you disregard the elderly/retired, disabled, and those in school/college, the workforce is only about 157 million (from the Bureau of Labor Statistics). So 94 million unemployed would make the unemployment rate a staggering 60%, which is laughably ridiculous and just plain WRONG!!! ROTFLMAO!!! :-) :-) :-)

And, oh yeah, if you have to SELL stuff in order to take vacations, you probably should get your priorities straight, take personal responsibility, and NOT go on vacations until you can afford to, right? Vacations are a luxury, not a right. LOL!!!

Ron
Message: Posted by: RNK (Aug 12, 2015 09:30AM)
Record- 90 millions Americans not in labor force: http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/record-90-million-americans-not-in-labor-force/
You obviously are not taking into account the people who just quit looking for a job because there are none!

Slight decrease in poverty? ROTFLMAO! That's why Gov't assistance of number Americans have increased by millions under Obama.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 12, 2015 10:17AM)
Good god, look at the google experts.

Don't know how to break it to you boys, but there's more to economics than searching up your favorite partisan blog and spouting inflated opinions with exclamation points while pretending to roll on the floor laughing at the other guy who does exactly what you do.

Meaningful political discourse is in its death-throes.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2015 10:25AM)
I am as biased as anyone. But let's forget Google for a second. Things have indeed improved. Why is that a bad thing to some?
Message: Posted by: EsnRedshirt (Aug 12, 2015 10:56AM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, RNK wrote:
Record- 90 millions Americans not in labor force: http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/record-90-million-americans-not-in-labor-force/
You obviously are not taking into account the people who just quit looking for a job because there are none!

Slight decrease in poverty? ROTFLMAO! That's why Gov't assistance of number Americans have increased by millions under Obama. [/quote]
Or it could just mean the requirements for getting assistance have been reduced, helping a larger number of people.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 12, 2015 11:08AM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
I am as biased as anyone. But let's forget Google for a second. Things have indeed improved. Why is that a bad thing to some? [/quote]

People believe what they want to believe. Some refuse to believe that the current administration has made mistakes. Others refuse to believe that it has had successes.

And it's easy to find "evidence" to back you up either way.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2015 11:10AM)
John of course that is the truth. It is EASY to allow perception bias to cloud judgement and then to just ignore evidence of anything that does not CONFIRM that point of view.

I just fail to see how endless bashing or cheerleading helps anyone.
Message: Posted by: R.S. (Aug 12, 2015 11:32AM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, RNK wrote:
Record- 90 millions Americans not in labor force: http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/record-90-million-americans-not-in-labor-force/
You obviously are not taking into account the people who just quit looking for a job because there are none!

Slight decrease in poverty? ROTFLMAO! That's why Gov't assistance of number Americans have increased by millions under Obama. [/quote]


Here's a more honest assessment of that 90 million figure (which is in line with my previous post):
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/30/blog-posting/are-90-million-americans-not-working-or-looking-wo/

[quote]
Are 90 million Americans not working or not looking for work?

reader recently asked us to check a claim thatís been widely repeated on conservative websites -- that 90 million Americans either arenít working or arenít looking for work. Over the past few months, the statistic has been cited by various conservative bloggers, pundits and news outlets.

We thought weíd take a closer look.

Hereís how the calculation is made, using Census Bureau population estimates and employment data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

The total U.S. population age 16 and over is at least 243 million. Subtracting the nearly 156 million Americans in the labor force in June 2013 -- that is, those who were either working or looking for work -- leaves 87 million Americans, which is close to 90 million.

[b]However, the 90 million number is padded, since this number includes a lot of Americans who wouldnít be expected to be working[/b]. Specifically:
ē People age 16 to 17, who likely are in high school: 9 million

ē People who are enrolled in either two- or four-year colleges: 21 million

ē People age 65 and older, who have reached retirement age: 40 million people

That means 20 million people are of normal working age, not in college and not working. Thatís less than one-quarter the amount repeatedly cited in the blogosphere.

So the 90 million number is exaggerated. Even so, the idea that fewer people are joining the workforce is something that worries economists.

All things being equal, economists like to see more people working because it helps economic growth (though not at the expense of dropping out of school, which can limit future employment opportunities and earnings potential).

To gauge these trends, economists can calculate the labor force participation rate, which is the percentage of the population that is either working or looking for work, and they can calculate the employment to population ratio, which is the percentage of the 16-and-over population that is currently employed. Both statistics generally track each other, but not in lockstep.

So the number of people employed and the number joining the labor force have both increased since the end of the last recession -- but, importantly, these gains havenít kept pace with the rise in population.

This decline actually started around 2000, but it intensified starting with the most recent recession.

"The trick is to determine how much of the drop represents the impact of a lagging economy, which is worrisome, and how much is due to non-worrisome factors, such as the aging of the adult population," Gary Burtless, an economist at the Brookings Institution, told PolitiFact earlier this year.

As more adults begin moving into retirement age, the percentage of Americans who work is bound to decline. And thatís been happening in a big way as the baby boomers age. Burtless has determined that the two employment ratios would have fallen in recent years just on the basis of aging, even if there had been no recession. But the age-related decline has been worsened by high unemployment rates during the recession.

Most troubling, economists say, is the decline among the core working ages of 25 to 55. In addition, the tight job market has convinced more people to opt out of the labor market, perhaps by becoming students or stay-at-home parents.

The key to describing the employment situation is to make sure youíre using the best possible statistics. "Itís important not to downplay the seriousness of the decline, while still getting the numbers right," said Tara Sinclair, a George Washington University economist.

[b]Our ruling

Bloggers and pundits have said that 90 million Americans either arenít working or arenít looking for work. Thatís a real number, but it includes high schoolers, college students and retirement-age Americans, leaving perhaps 20 million a better approximation. We rate the claim Mostly False.[/b]
[/quote]

And government "assistance" has fallen sharply since the huge spike that occurred during the recession of '09:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_spending

And by the way, isn't that one of the things we want from our government - to "assist" us in times of need? Most of those people who are unemployed and receiving benefits are merely getting back what they paid into the system. I'm working and gladly paying taxes to contribute to this safety net knowing that if I was ever unfortunate enough to become unemployed myself I wouldn't starve between jobs (in fact, I HAVE been unemployed and I am thankful that my unemployment benefits saw me through some tough times).

Good news though; in 2015 welfare spending is only 7% of the total budget compared to 11% of the total budget in 2008:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2008USpf_16ps2n#usgs302


Ron
Message: Posted by: R.S. (Aug 12, 2015 11:42AM)
And in an effort to not further fuel the Slim King Troll machine, I am retiring from this thread.

Ron
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 12, 2015 12:10PM)
Fact .. Millions of people have lost their homes in the last 6 years ... Disprove that fact and we will move along!!!!
No double talk .. just prove that they haven't or agree.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 12, 2015 12:13PM)
Please prove that 5% unemployment somehow related to 94 million people unemployed. It's a lie. Five percent is only 16 million people.....
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2015 12:28PM)
You do know what it is 5% of right?

It is not based on every man woman and child in the country.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 12, 2015 12:33PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Fact .. Millions of people have lost their homes in the last 6 years ... Disprove that fact and we will move along!!!!
No double talk .. just prove that they haven't or agree.[/quote]
You're making the claim. How about you prove that they have?

You do understand that the economy overall can improve while some people are still unemployed, no?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 12, 2015 12:57PM)
The interesting question is [i] for whom[/i] has the economy improved? [i]For whom[/i] has it worsened? To speak of "The Economy" as if it were one thing for all people is an obfuscating way of describing monetary relationships in this society.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 12, 2015 04:12PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
You do know what it is 5% of right?

It is not based on every man woman and child in the country. [/quote]
Yes I do ... That's why it's such a huge LIE when they say ..."Unemployment is down to 5%!" .. Total BS!!!!!
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 12, 2015 04:16PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
You do know what it is 5% of right?

It is not based on every man woman and child in the country.[/quote]
Yes I do ... That's why it's such a huge LIE when they say ..."Unemployment is down to 5%!" .. Total BS!!!!![/quote]
It's not a lie; it's a well-understood statistic.

If you're ignorant about how it's calculated, that's your fault, not the fault of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 12, 2015 05:26PM)
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 12, 2015 07:05PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, R.S. wrote:
And in an effort to not further fuel the Slim King Troll machine, I am retiring from this thread.

Ron [/quote]

You are indeed a wise man, Ron.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 12, 2015 08:21PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, landmark wrote:
The interesting question is [i] for whom[/i] has the economy improved? [i]For whom[/i] has it worsened? To speak of "The Economy" as if it were one thing for all people is an obfuscating way of describing monetary relationships in this society. [/quote]

It's been especially salient in this recovery.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 13, 2015 02:38PM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2009, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm unemployed too! Those ungrateful mutha.....oh wait, my company actually left the coast and did offer me a job but the manager who did was insulting so I told him to shove it I'd have another job in a week or so! That was Oct of 2006! [/quote]

When Art-Mold was ''liquidated'' back in 2003, they offered to let us ask if we could transfer to the main office somewhere in a small town in the mid-West. I thought ''I'm a trained professional typesetter with 20-plus years experience, I'll be fine.'' 11 months of being told I was ''too qualified'' and ''we really need someone more trainable,'' Wal-Mart offered me something for the ''holiday season and I snapped at it. 12 years later, I'm still here.
:shrug:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 14, 2015 03:42PM)
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great. [/quote]
There are 94 million American out of work/unemployed. Is that 5%? Or is that the number of those who can still collect unemployment benefits?
Think danny... It's not that hard...ROTFLMAO

If everyone lost their job for more than 2 years the unemployment number of people applying for benefits would have dwindled to ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
And the IDIOTS would claim .. NO UNEMPLOYMENT ....
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 14, 2015 04:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great.[/quote]
There are 94 million American out of work/unemployed. Is that 5%? Or is that the number of those who can still collect unemployment benefits?
Think danny... It's not that hard...ROTFLMAO

If everyone lost their job for more than 2 years the unemployment number of people applying for benefits would have dwindled to ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
And the IDIOTS would claim .. NO UNEMPLOYMENT ....[/quote]
No, they wouldn't.

You clearly don't understand how the unemployment rate is calculated.

You might want to correct your ignorance.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 14, 2015 05:50PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great. [/quote]
There are 94 million American out of work/unemployed. Is that 5%? Or is that the number of those who can still collect unemployment benefits?
Think danny... It's not that hard...ROTFLMAO

If everyone lost their job for more than 2 years the unemployment number of people applying for benefits would have dwindled to ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
And the IDIOTS would claim .. NO UNEMPLOYMENT .... [/quote]

Did you read the article that the 90 million figure was actually padded by adding people who are students or retired? The article stated that the actual figure was closer to 20 million. Or did that just not fit in with your preconceived notions?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 14, 2015 06:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, ed rhodes wrote:
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great. [/quote]
There are 94 million American out of work/unemployed. Is that 5%? Or is that the number of those who can still collect unemployment benefits?
Think danny... It's not that hard...ROTFLMAO

If everyone lost their job for more than 2 years the unemployment number of people applying for benefits would have dwindled to ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
And the IDIOTS would claim .. NO UNEMPLOYMENT .... [/quote]
Or did that just not fit in with your preconceived notions? [/quote]

THIS could NOT be more true.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Aug 14, 2015 10:30PM)
I think debating anything with Slim is like arm wrestling with a 2-year old. Why do any of you bother?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 14, 2015 10:37PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, ed rhodes wrote:
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If it is a huge LIE then show us the correct calculations.

This should be great. [/quote]
There are 94 million American out of work/unemployed. Is that 5%? Or is that the number of those who can still collect unemployment benefits?
Think danny... It's not that hard...ROTFLMAO


If everyone lost their job for more than 2 years the unemployment number of people applying for benefits would have dwindled to ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!
And the IDIOTS would claim .. NO UNEMPLOYMENT .... [/quote]

Did you read the article that the 90 million figure was actually padded by adding people who are students or retired? The article stated that the actual figure was closer to 20 million. Or did that just not fit in with your preconceived notions? [/quote]
So you are claiming that there are 74 million retired folks? .. ROTFLMAO... Or students don't work? ... ROTFLMAO-II
:bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance: :bigdance:

YOU'D HAVE TO BE A FOOL TO BELIEVE THE 5% FIGURE ...
Message: Posted by: imgic (Aug 15, 2015 08:11AM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2015, balducci wrote:
I think debating anything with Slim is like arm wrestling with a 2-year old. Why do any of you bother? [/quote]

Quote of the day!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 15, 2015 09:19AM)
You've all been reduced to ad hominem attacks since there are over 94 million Americans out of work. One in six is in poverty and almost 50 million on food stamps EBT!!!!
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Aug 17, 2015 09:20PM)
Okay--here goes.

Is the economy better or worse?
Dunno--just know I'm gainfully employed with a firm that's doing well.

Is Slim a troll and a horse's tuchus?
Yes. Proof: read his posts.

Next?
Message: Posted by: RNK (Aug 20, 2015 01:57PM)
93 million workers left the work force and have not returned. My brother has been looking for a job in his field for a while now. No success. Another friend had to relocate and take a lower paying job. He is in the health industry. Though, the economy is improving for some- those on gov't assistance and food stamps.

RNK
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 20, 2015 02:34PM)
If only your brother were allowed to volunteer to work for less than minimum wage.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 20, 2015 03:10PM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, RNK wrote:
93 million workers left the work force and have not returned. My brother has been looking for a job in his field for a while now. No success. Another friend had to relocate and take a lower paying job. He is in the health industry. Though, the economy is improving for some- those on gov't assistance and food stamps.

RNK [/quote]

Conveniently overlooking the fact that thousands of post WWII baby boomers, a much larger generation than the one that followed, are retiring every day. Also, the 93 million figure is ridiculous because those that cite it include students and children as well as those who've actually left the job force.

Discussions like this go nowhere when people just spout party line nonsense rather than facts.

Unemployment is LESS than it was eight years ago, and, overall, the economy is in far better shape than it was at the end of 2008. Those are facts.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 20, 2015 06:09PM)
Hey if children are not willing to work why have them? Remember back in the 1800s?
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Aug 20, 2015 11:59PM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Hey if children are not willing to work why have them? Remember back in the 1800s? [/quote]

Not only children, but canaries too struggle to find traditional employment in coal mines now.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 21, 2015 03:12PM)
Stock market ... Sorry to see those 401 K's you were all confident in taking a huge hit this week ...
The economy sucks ..... it hasn't improved.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 21, 2015 03:21PM)
[quote]On Aug 21, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Stock market ... Sorry to see those 401 K's you were all confident in taking a huge hit this week ...
The economy sucks ..... it hasn't improved.[/quote]
My 401(k) didn't take a huge hit this week.

Maybe you just chose lousy investments.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 22, 2015 01:07PM)
Now there are more poor people than ever .. more on welfare, more on food stamps (EBT) and more in poverty... markets are failing ... China lost 30% and is continuing to fall..... The investors say .. INVEST, as it all falls down ..ROTFLMAO
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 22, 2015 03:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 22, 2015, Slim King wrote:
... markets are failing ...[/quote]
What markets, exactly?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 22, 2015 03:32PM)
Yes Slim the sky is falling. Hope you stocked up on your non perishable food stuffs. The world is ending.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 23, 2015 01:27PM)
Honestly, I did buy 5 cases of my sons favorite Kraft dinner and a case of my wife's favorite Stag chili. I spent an extra $300 on non-perishable foods last week. I will again this week too. If I'm wrong I'll just have a lot of extra food on hand to give to the shelter. I purchased a huge amount of tuna fish on sale at 38 cents a can a while back. It's about twice that now on sale. Every time I have a tuna sandwich I feel good about a 50% savings. :dancing:
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 23, 2015 02:06PM)
Better start stocking up on gold too!!!

And don't forget to stockpile plenty of ammunition!!!!

The end is surely near!

(And Twinkies! Don't forget Twinkies!)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 23, 2015 02:14PM)
Gold won't work. Food is the best thing to have (And protection)... You can't feed gold to your kids and no one will sell you food if they are hungry. History teaches the truth.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 23, 2015 02:59PM)
I dunno. I think I'm with Bob. Gold has remained valuable through all the disasters in recorded history. Assuming you live through it all, of course. Just to be safe, I think you should pack away some gold.

Then again, there was an episode of Twilight Zone where the criminals went into suspended animation for 100 years, and when they re-emerged gold had no value (we had learned how to synthesize the stuff). So there's always the chance of [i]that.[/i]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 23, 2015 03:12PM)
Slim history and what you profess are as different as lightening and the lightening bug.
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Aug 23, 2015 03:44PM)
Mary-Mary, quite contrary...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 23, 2015 03:46PM)
What will tomorrow bring? The market just took an 800 point hit...... Will it all come back???? :sun:
Message: Posted by: slowkneenuh (Aug 23, 2015 04:08PM)
Yes, but not tomorrow.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 23, 2015 06:00PM)
For those who missed it, I wasn't being serious about the gold or the ammunition.

Only the Twinkies.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 23, 2015 06:22PM)
Naturally. Which is why I didn't comment on the Twinkies. But now that they are no longer original Hostess Twinkies, will they endure? There was as a time I was pretty sure that the gold would deteriorate before the Twinkie.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 23, 2015 06:30PM)
Since the giant conspiracy of the smaller sizes and no aluminum foil to wrap Ding Dongs I am anti Hostess.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 23, 2015 07:06PM)
I ate a box of Twinkies just last week. They look and taste exactly as they always did.

I hate to admit that I just love those things.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Aug 23, 2015 08:12PM)
If you're stashing things for Armageddan, don't forget change for a twenty. You can't buy and sell if either you or them don't have change for the big bills. Nobody stashes ones.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 23, 2015 08:21PM)
You're not going to be trading twenties.

You're going to be trading bullets for Spam.

I've seen the movies.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Aug 23, 2015 08:23PM)
I have not had them since the change so I am glad to hear they are the same. DO you know Chezaday? One of his gimmicks is his love for Twinkies!

( You ate a whole box?! :thumbsup: How many is that? )

Ding Dongs and HoHos are great! I did not know they stopped wrapping them in foil. I am partial to Little Debbie Nutty Bars and Oatmeal Cream ies.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 23, 2015 08:27PM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
You're not going to be trading twenties.

You're going to be trading bullets for Spam.

I've seen the movies. [/quote]

They is why I want to be a punk rocker. They look like we are going to after all this happens.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 23, 2015 08:44PM)
There were ten Twinkies in the box I ate. Took about half an hour.

Had heartburn all night and was so wired I couldn't sleep. But it was worth it.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 23, 2015 08:59PM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
There were ten Twinkies in the box I ate. Took about half an hour.

Had heartburn all night and was so wired I couldn't sleep. But it was worth it.[/quote]
Have you ever tried to sleep hanging upside down by your ankles?

(I have no idea what that has to do with anything; it was just a random thought that occurred to me. I don't know if bats even eat Twinkies.)
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 23, 2015 10:38PM)
I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 24, 2015 02:35PM)
Hey guys ...It's 3:30 and the market has lost almost 700 points!!!!!
WOW.... At what point do you admit you were wrong?
There are 94 million unemployed workers in the USA..... One out of 6 lives in poverty.... A record number on food stamps EBT.... Some recovery!!!!! :kermit:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 24, 2015 03:40PM)
[quote]On Aug 23, 2015, slowkneenuh wrote:
Yes, but not tomorrow. [/quote]
HOLY SMOKES ... ANOTHER 588 POINT LOSS!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: imgic (Aug 24, 2015 04:12PM)
I think that Twinkies suck after they were relaunched. I think they're smaller, the cake more chewy and cream filling not as creamy.

Of course it could be they do to live up to my memories. I will state undeniably that the Hostess Fruit pies are near inedible now. A hostess cherry pie was one if my guilty pleasures. But the crust is doughy and revolting.

Okay, back to Slim's prophecy of gloom, doom, and falling skies.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 24, 2015 04:50PM)
The bakery (one of) that made the 'original" style twinkies was here in Orlando. The union rejected the companies offer so the company folded. It shut down. Everyone could smell the bakery on I4 for years and years. Now nothing. Some copycat company is making an inferior product without the original bakers themselves.

BTW ... Your stock market has fallen about 1400 points in three working days.... That IS GLOOMY!!!!!!!! No matter how many excuses you make. I hope it will recover as we are losing Billions from everyone's 401K accounts.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 24, 2015 05:55PM)
Why do you say everyone's? Do you willfully act ignorant of facts of is it actual ignorance? Not EVERYONE loses Slim.

Your lack of compression of investing is mind boggling.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Aug 24, 2015 06:01PM)
[quote]On Aug 24, 2015, imgic wrote:

I think that Twinkies suck after they were relaunched. I think they're smaller, the cake more chewy and cream filling not as creamy.
[/quote]
According to Wikipedia they were reduced in size BEFORE Hostess Brands filed for bankruptcy.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie#Return_of_Twinkies_to_U.S._market[/url]

"Before Hostess Brands filed for bankruptcy, Twinkies were reduced in size. They now contain 135 calories and have a mass of 38.5 grams, while the original Twinkies contained 150 calories and had a mass of 42.5 grams. The new Twinkies also have a longer shelf life of 45 days, which was also a change made before bankruptcy, compared to the 26 days of the original Twinkies."
Message: Posted by: imgic (Aug 24, 2015 06:06PM)
My bad...I hadn't eaten Twinkies, or other Hostess Products for years and years. After "The Sweetest Comeback Ever!" I just had to try the new products. So I never noticed the reduction before bankruptcy. Also tried the Ding-Dongs and Ho-Ho's...didn't like them either.

I'm going to stick with the occasional Little Debbie Nutty Bars for a treat...
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 24, 2015 06:14PM)
[quote]On Aug 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
BTW ... Your stock market has fallen about 1400 points in three working days.... That IS GLOOMY!!!!!!!![/quote]
By the way, your stock market has risen 5,726 points in the last 5 years, net of the last three days.

That is . . . whatever the opposite of GLOOMY is . . . unGLOOMY.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Aug 24, 2015 06:48PM)
[quote]On Aug 24, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
[quote]On Aug 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
BTW ... Your stock market has fallen about 1400 points in three working days.... That IS GLOOMY!!!!!!!![/quote]
By the way, your stock market has risen 5,726 points in the last 5 years, net of the last three days.

That is . . . whatever the opposite of GLOOMY is . . . unGLOOMY. [/quote]

BOOMY!
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Aug 25, 2015 07:44AM)
Aw, man! The European and US markets rebounded!
US markets have gained 4%!
SAMCLATT! (Sitting At My Computer, Laughing At The Troll)
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 25, 2015 08:30AM)
I thought this article said some interesting things worth keeping in mind.

The Stock Market is Not the Economy:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/08/25/stock-market-not-economy
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 25, 2015 09:46AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, landmark wrote:
The Stock Market is Not the Economy[/quote]
The problem with the article you linked is that it presents [i]facts[/i].
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 25, 2015 09:51AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Aw, man! The European and US markets rebounded!
[/quote]

Much to Slim's chagrin, I'm sure.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 10:02AM)
Did he predict it?
Message: Posted by: seneca77 (Aug 25, 2015 10:13AM)
Still after all these years haven't figured out if Dave/Slim *truly* believes the drivel he spews here, or is just a highly successful troll. Either conclusion is sad.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 25, 2015 10:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Aw, man! The European and US markets rebounded![/quote]
Much to Slim's chagrin, I'm sure.[/quote]
You cannot be serious.

"Slim" and "chagrin" in the same sentence?

Thanks for that one, Bob. I needed a good laugh to start the day.

(It's the first day of school, and I have to face four classes filled with beginning accounting students. Laughter is essential.)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 12:26PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Aw, man! The European and US markets rebounded!
[/quote]

Much to Slim's chagrin, I'm sure. [/quote]
Lost over 1400 .. rebounded 250 as of this minute ... ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CAN'T YOU GUYS COUNT?????????

When the wealthy sell their stocks it's PROFIT TAKING but when the poor sell theirs it PANIC!!!!

You guys are a riot!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Aug 25, 2015 02:03PM)
Watch it recover, Laughing boy.🃏
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Aug 25, 2015 03:14PM)
Dave, how come it's always you against everybody? Doesn't that get tiresome at your age?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 25, 2015 03:57PM)
Once again, please remember what ROTFLMAO REALLY stands for.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 08:13PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Watch it recover, Laughing boy.🃏 [/quote]
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L@@Ks like you were wrong AGAIN!!!!!!

The market fell another TWO HUNDRED POINTS!!!!!!

I honestly hope you can stop the bleeding .. you are down around 1600 points now...... Just the facts ... I don't need to make it up.

I told you the system was volatile ... The government is scamming you to put your retirement there .. They got millions of homes and now they are after the 401Ks.....

BTW ... How long will it take to get all those billions back ... In hope it isn't long.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 08:16PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Aw, man! The European and US markets rebounded!
US markets have gained 4%!
SAMCLATT! (Sitting At My Computer, Laughing At The Troll) [/quote]
The market lost another 200 points ...
Now don't you feel silly...... ROTFLAMAO
Message: Posted by: seneca77 (Aug 25, 2015 08:24PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Watch it recover, Laughing boy.🃏 [/quote]
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L@@Ks like you were wrong AGAIN!!!!!!

The market fell another TWO HUNDRED POINTS!!!!!!

I honestly hope you can stop the bleeding .. you are down around 1600 points now...... Just the facts ... I don't need to make it up.

I told you the system was volatile ... The government is scamming you to put your retirement there .. They got millions of homes and now they are after the 401Ks.....

BTW ... How long will it take to get all those billions back ... In hope it isn't long. [/quote]

*You* told us the market was volatile??? Of *course* the system is volatile! That's the nature of the stock market, Dave. Some days it goes up, others it goes down, sometimes dramatically. Nobody here needed you (of all people!) to tell us the market was volatile. Unlike you, we understand how the markets (there are more than one, you know) operate.

But, once again, it's you against the world, or at least the Cafť. It must be so exhausting for you, constantly swimming upstream. Why don't you take a break for a day. Or a year.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 25, 2015 08:24PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Slim King wrote:
I told you . . . the government is scamming you to put your retirement [in the (stock) market] . . . .[/quote]
You certainly told us that.

What you haven't done is prove that statement, or even provided any evidence that it's a scam.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 08:28PM)
You could have ended that last sentence after you typed the word "evidence".
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 25, 2015 08:29PM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
You could have ended that last sentence after you typed the word "evidence".[/quote]
Fingers got carried away.

I'm trying to eat dinner and type; what can I say?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 08:31PM)
I had a wonderful Pot Roast.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 25, 2015 08:32PM)
Chinese take-away. I'm at school.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 08:33PM)
Well I had to cook and clean so there is that. I hve to drive to Chicago tomorrow.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 08:37PM)
YOU GUYS JUST CAN NEVER ADMIT YOU HAVE BEEN 100% WRONG ....
In four days the market drops about 1600 points losing billions of dollars... About 400 points a day.... And you can't admit it... Not even to yourselves ... sorry state of affairs. The economy is NOT recovering... The only reason the market grows is because people are conned into putting their 401K retirement funds into it. It's shear volume, and not much else.
It's time to audit the FED and ARREST the Banksters.
Message: Posted by: seneca77 (Aug 25, 2015 08:54PM)
Dave, what you need to admit is that you are so far out of your league here. Your rudimentary understanding of 401(k) funds, the Federal Reserve, the stock market, etc. is making you look more and more like a fool with every post. It's kind of pathetic.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 09:01PM)
But I was right about this faulty market wasn't I!!!!!

It is bleeding like a stuck pig and you guys are on the hook. You own it now.

It's down 1600 points and you can't come to grips with it can you ... Look in the mirror ... it's down 1600 points!!!!!

There are 94 million Americans out of work.... A record number on Food Stamps EBT......One in SIX lives in poverty in the USA!!!!...
The USA is deeper in dept than EVER, $17 trillion bucks.........Now THAT's PATHETIC!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 09:01PM)
Hard to imagine it is possible but he manages.

Dave you lose credibility at a much faster rate and you survive.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 09:07PM)
ROTFLMAO... Financial credibility on a magic forum's Not Very Magical section with a bunch of self proclaimed experts ??? Is that it danny???? You can't even come to grips with the FACT that the market has lost BILLIONS...

Hey buddy ... When do we all get it back? Share your knowledge.... :coolspot:

94 million unemployed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 09:11PM)
Who claimed to be an expert and where?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 09:13PM)
[quote]On Aug 11, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
While improvement might be slower than wanted it has improved. [/quote]
rotflmao
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 09:20PM)
So that is where I claim to be an expert?

You are not even a good troll any more.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 25, 2015 09:47PM)
NO ...That's just where you were WRONG!!!!! :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

94 million unemployed..... 1 in 6 lives in poverty in the USA...... A record number on Food Stamps EBT.... the stock market just lost 1600 points....more debt than EVER!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 25, 2015 09:56PM)
So things have not improved at all?

What about the gains prior to the losses? You just ignore those?

What was the DJA 6 years ago and what is it today?

http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

Here is some help. Before the crash and after and now. If you knew anything about which number is bigger than the other it is self explanatory.

Again I repeat things may not have recovered as quickly as wanted but things are better.
Message: Posted by: AllAboutMagic (Aug 25, 2015 11:41PM)
Do you realize that the DJIA only represents 30 companies? Weren't you the guy who was complaining earlier about not having enough to retire on because of your over reliance on social security? Yep, I really want to take my financial advice from a genius such as yourself. I actually used today to maximize my Roth IRA for 2015. Probably a very poor decision according "Slim the S&P Soothsayer."
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 26, 2015 12:48AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Slim King wrote:
. . . a bunch of self proclaimed experts . . . .[/quote]
Who's proclaimed themselves an expert?

Danny hasn't.

I haven't.

Who here has?
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 26, 2015 12:52AM)
[quote]On Aug 25, 2015, Slim King wrote:
But I was right about this faulty market wasn't I!!!!![/quote]
No.

Apart from a general statement that it is risky, which is no revelation at all, you never wrote anything that remotely suggested a 1,600 point drop in the Dow.

Try not to dislocate your shoulder.
Message: Posted by: Devious (Aug 26, 2015 02:29AM)
Buy shares of Bumble Bee since
slim guy is buying so many
cans of tuna fish.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 26, 2015 08:55AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, AllAboutMagic wrote:
Do you realize that the DJIA only represents 30 companies?[/quote]
Interestingly, even though the Dow comprises only 30 companies (compared to ~500 in the S&P 500), and is a price-weighted index (whereas the S&P 500 is a market-cap-weighted index), the correlation of returns between the two is over +0.95, as is the correlation of prices.

In short, the performance of those 30 companies very closely tracks the performance of the ~500 largest, publicly traded companies in the US.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 26, 2015 09:21AM)
What will happen today? Can you stop the bleeding .. Down over 1600 points ... I hope you can!!!!!
The lady on the radio this morning said that the average 401K has lost over $10,000.00..
PLEEZE STOP THE BLEEDING!!!!!! :firedevil:
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Aug 26, 2015 09:23AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, Devious wrote:
Buy shares of Bumble Bee since
slim guy is buying so many
cans of tuna fish. [/quote]

He might be buying Star Kist. :clown:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 26, 2015 09:25AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, Slim King wrote:
What will happen today? Can you stop the bleeding .. Down over 1600 points ... I hope you can!!!!!
The lady on the radio this morning said that the average 401K has lost over $10,000.00..
PLEEZE STOP THE BLEEDING!!!!!! :firedevil: [/quote]

Are you really this dim?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 26, 2015 09:27AM)
Just facts danny..... :gunfighter:
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 26, 2015 09:29AM)
You have not answered my question about what has happened in the past 10 years. Facts are not your strong suit I am afraid.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 26, 2015 10:43AM)
Stop the bleeding danny..... The average 401K owner lost TEN GRAND IN THE LAST 4 DAYS OF TRADING!!!!!
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 26, 2015 10:47AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Stop the bleeding danny..... The average 401K owner lost TEN GRAND IN THE LAST 4 DAYS OF TRADING!!!!![/quote]
What's Danny have to do with it?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 26, 2015 02:36PM)
Been asking for the bleeding to stop today... maybe it did ... still time left on the clock????
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 26, 2015 04:46PM)
You blamed Danny and me for the losses; are you going to give us credit for the gains?
Message: Posted by: imgic (Aug 26, 2015 05:53PM)
Only seems fair. But my money is on "No."
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 26, 2015 08:04PM)
I want to know what we did?

My evil organization has power but not that much.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Aug 27, 2015 10:52PM)
Up 988 over the last two days.

Slim: when are you going to admit those mistakes you claim you admit?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 28, 2015 09:44PM)
Slim what should we do with our koney now that the DOW crashed as you predicted?