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Topic: This is a 'serious' question.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 7, 2009 08:43AM)
What's the difference between the magic Café and the masked magician?

Anybody can "lurk" around and have access to anything about magic, methods and workings. You need not be pre-qualified to enter. You don't need any identity and can get an answer to anything about magic. Even if you don't ask a question, this place is littered with exposed methods, language and inside information.

People complain about the masked magician but yet right here secrets are exposed on a daily basis.

And as a matter of fact, I’ll bet [b]more[/b] people have been exposed to magic secrets and methods here than by watching the masked magician on TV.

Serious question.

Seriously concerned.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 7, 2009 08:50AM)
Do you mean to say that one can learn SECRETS from the Magic Café?

WHOA!
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 7, 2009 09:00AM)
Yah, where the heck are they? I thought this was a political\religous forum.
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Jan 7, 2009 09:04AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 09:43, Justin Style wrote:
And as a matter of fact, I’ll bet MORE people have been exposed to magic secrets and methods here than by watching the masked magician on TV.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that's actually the case but you make a good point about secrets leaking out of the Café.

I find the idea of a 'Secret Sessions' section kind of amusing considering secrets are openly being discussed elsewhere in the Café frequently enough.

It's ironic that loads of magi here on the Café will moan for days on end about exposure only to turn around and openly discuss sleights methods etc. without thinking twice as if the Café was one big cone of silence.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jan 7, 2009 09:05AM)
This is like a Library. Someone looking for the info is not the same as outright public exposure of that info.

Or, hang around a Magic Shop long enough and befriend some Magicians... Same thing as the Café...

Masked Magician is mass media...

It's there whether you're looking for it or not...

And it has malicious intent... At least I feel it...
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 7, 2009 09:10AM)
I agree with Pakar here. That said, people here should watch exposure and moderation should kill it when done.
Message: Posted by: Eddie Torres (Jan 7, 2009 09:13AM)
Pakar is right, here you have to do some work and seek out what it is you're looking for. I don't think most laymen care enough where they'll fanatically start seeking secrets. On TV you just have to turn it on and it's there, no work involved.

Eddie
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 7, 2009 09:22AM)
Okay, good points.

However...

What about the person who watches the show?

If they watch the show they [i]must[/i] have some level of interest in "how it's done".

Therefore, once they get the motivation, I wonder if they turn to the internet and then sooner or later wind up here?
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 7, 2009 09:27AM)
I doubt highly they end up here once they get curious

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=secrets+of+magic&btnG=Google+Search&aq=0&oq=secrets+of+mag

I think they end up here after they discovered crappy explanations else where and have their interest actually kindled.
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Jan 7, 2009 09:39AM)
I don't think people are coming here because there is "nothing else to watch."

This is only, it take some effort to find this place. You have to get up off your couch, turn off the tv, search on google for magic, and then dig through the results.

If someone is coming here, I think there must be some interest in magic, even if it is just the secrets. I am sure there are people in your local magic club that are just interested in the secrets and ways thing work.

Someone looking for secrets is first going to be bombarded with videos of of a self proclaimed marketing genius with glasses, still living with mom, showing how magic apparatus works. This is one of the last places they are going to find. I was looking for magic on google for quite some time before I found the Café.

Like Pakar said, someone looking for secrets on the internet are not out to try and hurt magicians or make us work harder, they just have an interest in the inner workings of magic.
Message: Posted by: PSYSHADOW (Jan 7, 2009 09:41AM)
I saw only the second half of the Masked Magician's show yesyterday here in the U.K. (from the DeKolta chair onwards). Can anyone who saw the same show tell me what else was exposed before this in the first half ? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 7, 2009 09:45AM)
No man, go somewhere else and talk about that. This is a DIFFERENT subject.

l8r -
Message: Posted by: Dr. Delusion (Jan 7, 2009 09:52AM)
Justin brings up a good point. I'll admit I've yakked about the way a trick works on the Café after being asked by someone needing advice. I just hope that they were Magicians. On the other hand I doubt if any of you really know if I'm a actual magician or not, unless you do some checking. With the Masked Moron exposeing stuff, even though it's never happened, I often think about what I would do if I'm performing an illusion that was exposed, and have a kid or an adult yell out how it's done. That would be pretty embarassing to have happen.
Bob.
Message: Posted by: PSYSHADOW (Jan 7, 2009 10:08AM)
Sorry if I've upset you Justin, the fact is, this is NOT a different subject as it deals with exposure, correct ?

Personally, I think a little exposure is good for keeping interest in our art. But, I do feel sorry for any magician who has invested a lot of money into a big illusion, only to find it being exposed on television.
Message: Posted by: Jimeh (Jan 7, 2009 10:39AM)
PSYSHADOW, I think all Justin is trying to do is focus the discussion specifically on lay-people learning secrets from MM versus the Café.
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 7, 2009 10:40AM)
PLUS - Just has bigger cards!
Message: Posted by: acesover (Jan 7, 2009 11:29AM)
Lets see now. Could the difference be that a few million non magicians watched the Masked magician? Whereas there may be a few thousand magicians or at least fans of magic here.

I hope that clears it up.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 7, 2009 11:31AM)
Yea Justin is a good enough guy. He may be too yippy, and seem like a pain, but when you get to know him he is a real pain.

Don't start throwing punches at him. He does NOT deserve it.

This is also kind advice. While Justin is perfectly capable of handling himself and I will not just jump in to jump in, bear in mind he has a history here and people who like him.

Take some time, learn who is who and don't just jump in and attack people. Especially those who don't deserve it.
Message: Posted by: MAKMagic (Jan 7, 2009 11:46AM)
That's right !@#$%. And know that Danny doesn't jump in to jump because he's in the tropics. I'm on da east side and it's freezing here. I'll jump in no problem. Represent.

This was advice. And while I'm usually nice, I've been kind of a ***** all day today.

edit - p.s. you can try to rag on me, I'll win, but you can try, as I, unlike my boy Justin, am not well liked.

Maybe Vandy, but that's it.
Message: Posted by: kkentert (Jan 7, 2009 12:09PM)
Magic secrets are like drugs. If people want to find them, they will...Do most laymen really go to the effort to browse the Café looking for answers?

(ps-never done a drug in my life..just making a point)
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 7, 2009 12:18PM)
Well there you go...


Drinks on me...


For those of you who drink this, here you go :stout:


And for those of you who don't drink that stuff, here you go. :coffee:


Thanks for watching my back. You know I'll always watch yours!

[i]Kum-Baya my lord, kum-baya.[/i]


Okay...back to the topic.


Can you believe this thread is still up?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 7, 2009 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 12:46, MAKMagic wrote:
That's right !@#$%. And know that Danny doesn't jump in to jump because he's in the tropics. I'm on da east side and it's freezing here. I'll jump in no problem. Represent.

This was advice. And while I'm usually nice, I've been kind of a ***** all day today.

edit - p.s. you can try to rag on me, I'll win, but you can try, as I, unlike my boy Justin, am not well liked.

Maybe Vandy, but that's it.
[/quote]
Wait, I like you! Cmaaaaaannnnnn
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Jan 7, 2009 12:37PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 12:46, MAKMagic wrote:
That's right !@#$%. And know that Danny doesn't jump in to jump because he's in the tropics. I'm on da east side and it's freezing here. I'll jump in no problem. Represent.

This was advice. And while I'm usually nice, I've been kind of a ***** all day today.

edit - p.s. you can try to rag on me, I'll win, but you can try, as I, unlike my boy Justin, am not well liked.

Maybe Vandy, but that's it.
[/quote]
[b]Mike!!![/b], how can you forget about me?


[quote]
unlike my boy Justin, am not well liked.

Maybe Vandy, but that's it.
[/quote]
I like you too, Mikey. :)


Well,...maybe a little bit?!
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 7, 2009 12:44PM)
Alright Kev, you got here a little late (west coast time) but thanks and here's one for you too!

:stout: :cheers:
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Jan 7, 2009 01:00PM)
I have alway's believed that it is a very small percentage of folks that have a serious inclinationn to seek out magic secret's.

The ones that spend a lot of time doing so either have no lives or they do actually have an interest in magic...they just are frustrated trying to perform magic...or they are unwilling to put in the time to learn magic properly.IMO in the grand scheme...it's no big deal.

As far as folks who watch MM...unless they have a serious interest in magic...they will quickly forget what they saw,and if they do have an interest in magic and just want to learn secret's...I assure you this will probably not be a lifelong endeavor for them.lol

Happy trails.
Rich

It takes a sincere and genuine interest in ANY subject to maintain a memory of it.
Message: Posted by: kkentert (Jan 7, 2009 01:01PM)
Thanks! Cheers!

BTW-how can we get youngins from posting CRAP performances on youtube that give away secrets to the new tricks they just bought and haven't practiced?! That's WAY worse than the Café.. Was that already discussed? Am I too late on that one as well?
Message: Posted by: RicHeka (Jan 7, 2009 01:14PM)
Same thing.In this internet age there will alway's be You Tube VIDIOT's.

The good news is:Again the people that spend their precious time searching You Tube for magic secret's are a very small %...and many of that small % actually have an interest in magic....they just are unwilling to approach the Art in the standard way.The ones who have little interest will forget what they saw in short order.

Rich
Message: Posted by: kcmagic (Jan 7, 2009 01:16PM)
Hasn't it been shown time and time again that people don't remember what they saw on MM a couple weeks after the see his show? Laymen don't care enough. And those that do...let them. At least they're passionate enough to care. Those same people are likely to be eager to see you perform. They probably just love magic...
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Jan 7, 2009 04:57PM)
As to the op...a contract and a [b]big[/b] check.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 7, 2009 06:23PM)
Some folks watch TV to be entertained.
Some folks get on the internet to find out what tricks to buy as if that would make a difference.

While the TV panders to our lowest common denominator - the specialty BBS can pander to the expensive vanity of a self selected few.

The clothes make the man, right?
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 7, 2009 09:18PM)
While we're being b!tchy...

[quote]
Someone looking for secrets is first going to be bombarded with videos of of a self proclaimed marketing genius with glasses, still living with mom, showing how magic apparatus works.
[/quote]
Does 'still living with mom' indicate something about an adult Matt?

And who do you live with again?

Destiny


Deja Vu

Destiny

P.S.: While I've not referred to this spat previously I must come out in support of Justin and the others now that silly empty threats are being made. Should I watch for black cats crossing my path - or do you send hit men to seek out your detractors, oh Great Silly Threatening Anonymous One?
Message: Posted by: gaddy (Jan 8, 2009 02:06AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 13:38, Justin Style wrote:
[quote]
unlike my boy Justin, am not well liked.

Maybe Vandy, but that's it.
[/quote]



I like you too, Mikey :)


well...maybe a little bit?!
[/quote]


jeez when did this thread turn into such a stroke-fest?
:nana:
Message: Posted by: Tom Bartlett (Jan 8, 2009 02:17AM)
See what happens when you don’t use those smiley faces at the end of every sentence!
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jan 8, 2009 02:22AM)
Silly Me :)

Destiny
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jan 8, 2009 02:50AM)
:jump:
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jan 8, 2009 05:09AM)
:dancing:
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jan 8, 2009 07:38PM)
Just came upon this thread while doing a search for comments about YouTube as that **** thing is really starting to frost my ***. It always irked me to no end but an incident just came up the other day, and my hatred for it was rekindled.

There happens to be a girl who is a bartender at the local pub I frequent, and where I’ve performed quite a few magic tricks for her, and a lot of other patrons there. She just mentioned to me the other evening that she and her son were in West Virginia visiting a relative and stopped at a restaurant where there happened to be a magician who performed a few tricks for her and her son. One of the tricks simply [i]amazed[/i] her and she just could not get over it! When she started to describe it for me I knew instantly that it was simply the “Invisible Deck”. Now when I say she was amazed I mean [i]amazed[/i] and she was telling everyone all about it and I told her that I was surprised I had never done it for her.

In the past, some of the things I did that she saw was “Fraud” and “Extreme Burn” amongst many others including “Multi Dimensional” which [i][b]really[/b][/i] blew her mind. Last night I stopped in for a few beers and she immediately came up to me with a big smile on her face and said; “Guess what…, I know how the Invisible Deck is done, and also that thing you did where you changed one dollar bills into ten’s!" Immediately the hairs on the back of my neck raised up, and my hands gripped in anger although I kept a calm look and simply said in reply; “YouTube”? She simply said yes, and how easy it was! She remembered that the magician in his performance used the term; “This is an invisible deck…..etc.” so, she simply typed “invisible deck” into Google which led her directly to all the YouTube video’s. I said; “ I imagine it was some pimple faced teenager sitting in his bedroom who performed and explained how it was done?” “[i]Teenager[/i]!”, she replied, “ Hell, the kid could not have been more than 8 years old!” She then told me that she then simply typed in “changing bills trick” and came upon other YouTube video’s with another prepubescent bed wetting punk performing “Extreme Burn” and then explaining how it’s [i]done[/i]!

Now here I sit finding posts about member’s respective concerns about the possibility of some effects being exposed, or talked about too much on the Café! Jeez…..give me a freaking break and let’s start getting our priorities in order here! If one is going to get upset about something for heaven’s sake, get upset with [i][b]BoobTube[/b][/i]! Granted, there is probably nothing we can do about it but there is the [i]real[/i] enemy. Of course then again, you could track it right down to Google, and every other search engine for that matter and then right down to the very computer you happen to be on now while reading this! That’s what the Web is all about…..gleaning information with a few strokes on the keyboard. As for the Café it’s a forum site and forum site’s are around for several purposes. To have a gathering of people with a common interest, and to share their collective thoughts, ideas, questions, to disseminate information etc., and the list goes on.

I’ll freely admit that at times reviews of certain tricks seem to lend themselves, well, to getting a tad bit in depth at times, but usually it’s brought under control by someone or another. What with over 38,000 members more often than not someone will step in. Another thought on my part is that if someone wishes to research a trick or, simply find out how it’s done, will usually stop at BoobTube and be satisfied. If one wishes to research it more due to SEO, (which is of course needed with a forum site as I own and run two forum sites myself), they might very well be interested in magic and wish to pursue it.

As for someone simply coming to the Café who is not a member, and looking more deeply into information, this can easily be taken care of by the administrator by simply not allowing anyone who is not a member to access [i]anything[/i] on the site. But that involves a two edged sword my friends. If someone is looking for a good informative forum site and cannot peruse and read over what is contained here, they will simply move on to another forum site. I know I certainly would have if I were not able to see most of the content here. It’s something we [i]all[/i] have to watch ourselves as the moderators cannot be everywhere. If you find what you consider to be a problem simply notify one of them. I have moderators and that is what they are there for. I mean really……how do you moderate information and then draw a line? It’s quite difficult and just something we all have to be cognoscente of when either posting or, noticing someone else’s post if you feel it is going over the line.

The problem lies not within this site, but within the computer age, and the ever so easy access to information everyone now has at their fingertips. If anything, and you wish to direct any conceived anger, or concern that a magician may have [i]please[/i] direct it towards BoobTube. That is the [i][b]first[/b][/i] and [i][b]foremost[/b][/i] problem that I feel magicians now face as to magic being exposed. The Magic Café is not the problem here, or the [i]least[/i] of our worries. If you’re a concerned member, and you feel there is a problem with some post, then either simply point it out or bring it to a moderators attention, as that is what they are here for, and not just sit back and bit*h about it on some thread. Just my quarter's worth (inflation ya know).

~gaffed~ ;)
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (Jan 9, 2009 01:13AM)
Well said
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jan 9, 2009 01:53AM)
Wow gaffed...

That's the truth right there... Well said!

:applause:
Message: Posted by: Justin Style (Jan 9, 2009 05:11AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-08 20:38, gaffed wrote:
Just came upon this thread while doing a search for comments about YouTube as that **** thing is really starting to frost my ***. It always irked me to no end but an incident just came up the other day, and my hatred for it was rekindled.

There happens to be a girl who is a bartender at the local pub I frequent, and where I’ve performed quite a few magic tricks for her, and a lot of other patrons there. She just mentioned to me the other evening that she and her son were in West Virginia visiting a relative and stopped at a restaurant where there happened to be a magician who performed a few tricks for her and her son. One of the tricks simply [i]amazed[/i] her and she just could not get over it! When she started to describe it for me I knew instantly that it was simply the “Invisible Deck”. Now when I say she was amazed I mean [i]amazed[/i] and she was telling everyone all about it and I told her that I was surprised I had never done it for her.

In the past, some of the things I did that she saw was “Fraud” and “Extreme Burn” amongst many others including “Multi Dimensional” which [i][b]really[/b][/i] blew her mind. Last night I stopped in for a few beers and she immediately came up to me with a big smile on her face and said; “Guess what…, I know how the Invisible Deck is done, and also that thing you did where you changed one dollar bills into ten’s!" Immediately the hairs on the back of my neck raised up, and my hands gripped in anger although I kept a calm look and simply said in reply; “YouTube”? She simply said yes, and how easy it was! She remembered that the magician in his performance used the term; “This is an invisible deck…..etc.” so, she simply typed “invisible deck” into Google which led her directly to all the YouTube video’s. I said; “ I imagine it was some pimple faced teenager sitting in his bedroom who performed and explained how it was done?” “[i]Teenager[/i]!”, she replied, “ Hell, the kid could not have been more than 8 years old!” She then told me that she then simply typed in “changing bills trick” and came upon other YouTube video’s with another prepubescent bed wetting punk performing “Extreme Burn” and then explaining how it’s [i]done[/i]!

Now here I sit finding posts about member’s respective concerns about the possibility of some effects being exposed, or talked about too much on the Café! Jeez…..give me a freaking break and let’s start getting our priorities in order here! If one is going to get upset about something for heaven’s sake, get upset with [i][b]BoobTube[/b][/i]! Granted, there is probably nothing we can do about it but there is the [i]real[/i] enemy. Of course then again, you could track it right down to Google, and every other search engine for that matter and then right down to the very computer you happen to be on now while reading this! That’s what the Web is all about…..gleaning information with a few strokes on the keyboard. As for the Café it’s a forum site and forum site’s are around for several purposes. To have a gathering of people with a common interest, and to share their collective thoughts, ideas, questions, to disseminate information etc., and the list goes on.

I’ll freely admit that at times reviews of certain tricks seem to lend themselves, well, to getting a tad bit in depth at times, but usually it’s brought under control by someone or another. What with over 38,000 members more often than not someone will step in. Another thought on my part is that if someone wishes to research a trick or, simply find out how it’s done, will usually stop at BoobTube and be satisfied. If one wishes to research it more due to SEO, (which is of course needed with a forum site as I own and run two forum sites myself), they might very well be interested in magic and wish to pursue it.

As for someone simply coming to the Café who is not a member, and looking more deeply into information, this can easily be taken care of by the administrator by simply not allowing anyone who is not a member to access [i]anything[/i] on the site. But that involves a two edged sword my friends. If someone is looking for a good informative forum site and cannot peruse and read over what is contained here, they will simply move on to another forum site. I know I certainly would have if I were not able to see most of the content here. It’s something we [i]all[/i] have to watch ourselves as the moderators cannot be everywhere. If you find what you consider to be a problem simply notify one of them. I have moderators and that is what they are there for. I mean really……how do you moderate information and then draw a line? It’s quite difficult and just something we all have to be cognoscente of when either posting or, noticing someone else’s post if you feel it is going over the line.

The problem lies not within this site, but within the computer age, and the ever so easy access to information everyone now has at their fingertips. If anything, and you wish to direct any conceived anger, or concern that a magician may have [i]please[/i] direct it towards BoobTube. That is the [i][b]first[/b][/i] and [i][b]foremost[/b][/i] problem that I feel magicians now face as to magic being exposed. The Magic Café is not the problem here, or the [i]least[/i] of our worries. If you’re a concerned member, and you feel there is a problem with some post, then either simply point it out or bring it to a moderators attention, as that is what they are here for, and not just sit back and bit*h about it on some thread. Just my quarter's worth (inflation ya know).

~gaffed~ ;)
[/quote]


I don't know if I understand what you're saying?

What I get is this.

1) you think because someone asks a question they are "angry" or "upset" about it?

Not true. Simply asking a question.

2) You don't like youtube.

or 8 year old kids...lol


Are you upset because you had to learn the old fashioned way? Don't you think that the masters before you might have had an opinion about what [i]you[/i] were learning and performing?

If a trick has a name...NEVER perform it. Because if you do, some schmuck will too. Do stuff that has no name, then people can't go on "boobtube" and look it up...
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jan 9, 2009 06:46PM)
Sorry Justin. I was just in a really pi**ed off mood when I wrote what I did as I was still seething about the YouTube incident. No, nothing really wrong at all with bringing up the subject but I suppose I felt it misdirected. People are bound to step over the line at times a on [i]any[/i] given forum site from time to time. It happens on occasion on my forum sites and my moderators usually take care of it if they happen to notice it or if it’s brought to their attention by another member. If you or anyone should notice such an issue it’s up to you or anyone else as a member to either point it out to the offender or bring the issue up to a moderator. After all, that is what they are here for and it’s their job.

YouTube in and of [i]itself[/i] is not an evil thing but how it’s being used by children in either exposing tricks by them by being poorly performed and or, also going out of their way to [i]purposely[/i] expose them is indeed a [i]VERY[/i] touchy issue with me and [i]always[/i] will hit a nerve with me.

As for children there are times when I can understand why Lions sometimes eat their young! I have a daughter who is 37 years old and a 5 year old granddaughter but they all reside in Boston and I hardly ever see them. I’ll freely admit I’m definitely not a [i]kid[/i] person but hey….that’s just me and I make no apologies for it.

[quote] Are you upset because you had to learn the old fashioned way? Don't you think that the masters before you might have had an opinion about what you were learning and performing?[/quote]

I’m not at all sure that I really understand the question?
Why would the so called masters be upset with me? I never went around and publicly exposed their secrets but, then again I’m not at all too clear on your question. I learned mostly from reading, going to lectures and talking to guys from Magic Inc. like Bruce Krenz, Jim Bernstein and of course Jay Marshall and of course from all of my experiences in making gaffed cards professionally for many magicians. (which I no longer do)

[quote] If a trick has a name...NEVER perform it. Because if you do, some schmuck will too. Do stuff that has no name, then people can't go on "boobtube" and look it up...[/quote]

As far as I know [i]all[/i] tricks/gimmicks have some name of some sort, i.e., “WOW”, “Fraud”, “Paper Clipped”, “Extreme Burn”, etc., etc. Giving the “name” of a trick however when it’s being performed is beyond stupidity! When I use “Multi Dimensional” I don’t start out by saying; “I’m now going to perform “Multi Dimensional” or, “My next trick will be “Extreme Burn”.” Any magician who uses the “name” of a trick should not be a magician and more than likely has the I.Q. of an egg timer. As I pointed out in my post that the girl I know simply typed in “bill changing trick” on Google and came upon “Extreme Burn” on BoobTube with some bed wetting punk doing it and exposing it.

Again, to reiterate my feelings it seems to me that any anger as to tricks being exposed should be directed towards BoobTube and not worry too much about what may or may not be talked about too much on the Café albeit if it happens as I said before….report it!

Most kids will not go beyond BoobTube and come here as most are hooked on videos and the quick fix. From what I can see is that most have the intelligence of an ameba and don’t know how to spell much less let alone know how to read. Before I came here I was on another magic site and it took me about four days before I realized that it was oriented towards the younger people. All the posts were like reading a text message with grammar and spelling that was abhorrent beyond reasoning. I was actually told by one of the moderators (who I imagine was somewhat older) to shorten up my posts and responses as most of the membership will get bored beyond three sentences and will not go beyond that! Sorry….seems as though I’m going off on a bit of a tangent here but I’m sure you get my point.

~gaffed~ ;)
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jan 9, 2009 10:19PM)
___________________________________________________________________________________

gaffed wrote

I was actually told by one of the moderators (who I imagine was somewhat older) to shorten up my posts and responses as most of the membership will get bored beyond three sentences and will not go beyond that!

___________________________________________________________________________________


ROTFLMAO!!!! :lol:
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jan 9, 2009 11:01PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-09 23:19, Pakar Ilusi wrote:
___________________________________________________________________________________

gaffed wrote

I was actually told by one of the moderators (who I imagine was somewhat older) to shorten up my posts and responses as most of the membership will get bored beyond three sentences and will not go beyond that!

___________________________________________________________________________________


ROTFLMAO!!!! :lol:
[/quote]

That's the God's [i]honest[/i] truth Pakar!

Anyway, I had forgotten to mention one other very relevant point as to BoobTube and magic being exposed as to children. Ponder upon this if you will. How many times have you seen posts as to new effects and there prices being raised up [and praised by it being done so by many members/magicains] [i]simply[/i] to keep it out of the hands of children?

Would this price increase have happened 10 or so years ago simply because of these imbeciles buying them and then exposing them? I think not. Magicians are now raising their effects/gimmicks to [i]very[/i] high prices to [i]simply[/i] keep them out of reach of children and then performing/exposing them on the Internet!

It's a two edged sword now. We now have the computer age, videos, powerful search engines and easy access to just about everything. No more need to do work and go to the library and or buy books. Yes, by all means it's quite nice to look up a new trick and see a short demo video on it but then again, it is [i]killing[/i] magic with the very same stroke and prices are being raised for that very same reason! Sorry, but I don't have the answer but as time goes on you, I, and every other performing magician will, and are, going to pay the price.

~gaffed~
Message: Posted by: Jeremy L. (Jan 9, 2009 11:51PM)
I do not believe the Café is a threat to the art of magic. I think that measures such as the Secret Sessions and simply refraining from getting in depth into method in the public forums are sufficient. As far as forum posts, I think sometimes we become a little paranoid about how much we say, and we worry that it will lead to someone discovering the method of a trick. It takes less information in a post for us as magicians to deduce the method than it does a non-magician. What we perceive as a detailed explanation of how to do an effect, a non-magician may think is gibberish.

I firmly believe that in our presentation of an effect we should generally stay away from the name of the trick. There are of course some effects that, regardless of whether the magician mentions the name of the trick in the patter or not, are pretty simple to search for (think of all the tricks we do, whose names are a description of the effect).

I remember when I saw there was a video teaching the Elmsley count on You Tube. I later realized that this and a number of other video tutorials are not major threats to us because in the videos they use the name of the sleight to trick. I doubt that after seeing a trick, a non-magician is going to search for "Elmsley Count." There are definitely some videos that pose a larger threat, but perhaps not as big of a threat of exposure as we think.

I think that another problem that we don't pay enough attention to is that these exposure videos are ripping off the creators in magic. No matter who watches and learns a trick or move, the maker of the video should not teach or expose material that they did not create (regardless of patent, copyright etc.) unless they got consent from the creator.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jan 10, 2009 10:49AM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-07 09:43, Justin Style wrote:
What's the difference between the magic Caf� and the masked magician?

Anybody can "lurk" around and have access to anything about magic, methods and workings. You need not be pre-qualified to enter. You don't need any identity and can get an answer to anything about magic. Even if you don't ask a question, this place is littered with exposed methods, language and inside information.

People complain about the masked magician but yet right here secrets are exposed on a daily basis.

And as a matter of fact, I�ll bet [b]more[/b] people have been exposed to magic secrets and methods here than by watching the masked magician on TV.

Serious question.

Seriously concerned.
[/quote]

Even if you can find stuff on the Café without being a dedicated member, it still takes effort and study. The masked magician, THREW everything at anyone who turned in and made them feel foolish for being taken in by it.
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jan 10, 2009 01:57PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-10 00:51, Jeremy L. wrote:


I think that another problem that we don't pay enough attention to is that these exposure videos are ripping off the creators in magic. No matter who watches and learns a trick or move, the maker of the video should not teach or expose material that they did not create (regardless of patent, copyright etc.) unless they got consent from the creator.
[/quote]

Of course in an ideal world that would be true. But, do you actually think an eight year old is going to do such a thing? From what I can ascertain is that those who are even of high school age on BoobTube are lucky if they can spell their name let alone knowing what a patent is or a copyright!

Then again as far as I know they are only doing something that other magicians would consider as [i]ethically[/i] wrong. I don’t believe a copyright and or a patent on a trick/gimmick prohibits someone from exposing it to their hearts content as long as they make no claim to it being [i]their[/i] trick, gimmick or idea. I fear it’s a losing battle.

~gaffed~
Message: Posted by: gaffed (Jan 23, 2009 11:09PM)
Hey Justin,

I have owned and run two forum sites for some years now and I can honestly say I've [i]never[/i] seen anyone change their avatar so [i]frequently[/i]!
Sorry....a bit off topic but it just finally hit me! lol

~gaffed~ ;)
Message: Posted by: MattMagician (May 27, 2009 02:33PM)
I totally agree... youtube ruins a lot of magic.
Message: Posted by: kcg5 (May 28, 2009 12:29AM)
I was just thinking about this subject. I remember when such words as the one in this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=55869&forum=2&47

were spelled B******r.....

as far as youtube, check this thread (The op posted it on numerous magic forums):

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=310190&forum=2&73
Message: Posted by: MattMagician (May 28, 2009 06:27PM)
I just read that thread. Wow, what a different perspective. It hasn't changed my opinion, but it has made me more open-minded.

Matt