(Close Window)
Topic: Question about lapping......
Message: Posted by: Catbacker (May 3, 2003 09:33AM)
I just got David Roth's "ECMME" Vol. 1, and watched it last night. The guy is spooky! Does he have really small hands? Either that, or he must use "Stickum" on his hands. I just don't see how he can classic palm a coin, and lay his palm flat on a table.

Sorry about the tangent. I was watching the video, and had a question about lapping. He gives some good tips, but what do you do with a coin that has been lapped? At some point, you have got to get up from the table. I have a couple ideas, but was curious what you guys do.


Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 3, 2003 09:57AM)
Regarding putting your hand flat on the table, this is not too hard; once you have a real good classic palm. When you press your hand against the table, your palm muscles will "sqoosh" out and hold the coin in classic palm, without you even holding tension. When you lift off the table, you have re-contract the palm muscles. This is how it works for me, anyway.

Regarding retrieving lapped coins - you simply pick it up when people aren't looking. David does this right within routines, if you misdirect properly. You relax, sit back, and your hand goes south.

Or you can simply retrieve it when you put a bunch of coins away into a pocket, or something. You just pick it back up. :coffee:
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (May 3, 2003 11:01AM)
Two items.

First, the hand flat on the table thing... well, if that is a natural or congruent position for you in routine, a bit of practice and placing your hand down heel first should get you going.

re: lapped things...

Routining and 'traffic management' are significant topics. One coin is just the tip of the iceberg. David Roth has been known to vanish all the props on the table at the end of a session, then stand up and straighten out his pant creases. It's a secret of his. The basic problem has many solutions in print. Probably none on video or DVD yet. John Cornelius used to show something in his lecture that helps.

The closest analog may be what goes on in the theater, with sets and curtains and actors getting on and off stage at the right times to make the show flow for the audience. There are some really good ideas in some older books about the magic of Don Alan and Al Baker. Wouud you believe someone invented a vanishing servante? They could do their lapping, and then just stand up from the table. It's in one of 'those' books.

By the way, for just one coin... the Slydini "Imp Pass" works quite well.

Message: Posted by: Andrew E. Miller (May 3, 2003 11:11AM)
This is what I would do if I ever lapped. I would take the coin off of my lap, put it in my coat pocket, and stand-up. Or if it was needed when I stood up, I would just pick it up, and put it in finger palm position.

Message: Posted by: Jeffrey Cowan (May 3, 2003 02:05PM)
(1) practice, and you too will be able to lay a flat palm on the table. Just start keeping coins in classic palm while you're watching tv, driving to work, etc.

(2) The Slydini books (either the Ganson one or the first set of Fulves books) will more than answer how to retrieve items from the lap.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 3, 2003 05:49PM)
Ron Wilson had a servante that, when you stood up... vanished from view. It may be in his book "Uncanny Scot." :kitty:
Message: Posted by: deuces (May 3, 2003 08:55PM)
Sorry if this sounds really absurd... but I've sometimes had problems with the coin just bouncing off my leg, and sliding off the lap. Is it just me?? :bg:

Do I have to be wearing baggier pants? Putting down a dinner napkin on my lap? Just curious. (I guess that's why I don't do any lapping tricks, but would be interested.)
Message: Posted by: Andrew E. Miller (May 3, 2003 09:05PM)
I love servantes, I think that is the better solution to lapping. Everything you could do when lapping you can do standing up. Much better.

Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (May 3, 2003 09:14PM)
When you lap, learn to aim for the space between your legs (just keep your legs closed!). If you lap more than one coin, drop the first away from the table, and the second right at the edge. In Apocalypse, I published a technique for two coin lapping that is quite effective. In my first book, I illustrate how, with a cloth, you can lap 4 coins without having to go to your lap to retrieve or move them. Remember: recovery is always done on the off beat, when you lean back in a pause; or after an effect when the heat is off. Good luck, Mike
Message: Posted by: Catbacker (May 3, 2003 11:59PM)
Great ideas guys!

As far as servantes go... how would a Spanish artist help me ditch a coin?


I'm not sure what a servante is. Where would I find information on them? How much do they cost?


Message: Posted by: redstreak (May 4, 2003 01:05AM)
I'm working on my classic palm too. I can put my hand flat in the air, but if I try to put it flat on the table: it comes out. A servante is a bag that goes on the edge of the table. The lapped object goes into the bag, instead of onto your lap.
Message: Posted by: Bradley Morgan (May 4, 2003 01:05AM)
You can get one at


Message: Posted by: Mago Mai (May 4, 2003 01:32AM)
As I start to put away things to place in my pockets, I get the coins too.

Mago Mai
Message: Posted by: deuces (May 4, 2003 03:19AM)
Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully now I won't get the *klank* sound of coins hitting tile floors anymore. :eek:

Message: Posted by: Air56 (May 4, 2003 07:55AM)
Two other possible aids might be Howard Hale's "LAPIT" or Ross Bertram's "WELCOME MAT". Both of these items help to effect "going south' and clean-up.

Message: Posted by: Jem (May 4, 2003 08:47AM)
On 2003-05-03 10:57, Dan Watkins wrote:
Regarding putting your hand flat on the table, this is not too hard once you have a real good classic palm. When you press your hand against the table your palm muscles will "sqoosh" out and hold the coin in classic palm without you even holding tension.

Yup, that's a great tip. I just tried it today, and to my surprise, it works! Dan's right about the "sqooshing out" part. You gotta feel your muscles "sqoosh" out.
Message: Posted by: Mago Mai (May 4, 2003 10:32AM)
I tried it too.Thanks.
Mago Mai
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (May 4, 2003 12:21PM)
Now doing it (hand flat on table w/ classic palm) and having a reason to do it is another thing. Its not really a natural hand position unless you were leaning over a table to look at something on the other side.

It's more of a "Hey look what I can do" thing for magician buddies.

Message: Posted by: Catbacker (May 4, 2003 10:40PM)
Thanks for the info on servantes guys!

How about instead of a bag, a drawer like a computer keyboard tray lined with something soft. Then after a ditch, you could simply lean on it to push it back under the table. Somebody probably has something like this out already, but it would be easy to build on a regular table.

Message: Posted by: highmagic (May 22, 2003 05:28AM)
You may want to check out Chuck Faynes's "Idiot Servante". It's the real name, I'm not joking. You can lap any small object, and then stand up clean. The item was available at Pete Best's (even though I suggest you do not buy from this website)
Message: Posted by: nyborn (Mar 6, 2020 06:43AM)
Hey Folks,

Reopening this topic to learn if there are any.links to the mentioned referrals and what has come available since this original post.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Mar 6, 2020 07:49AM)
There's now a whole DVD set on lapping. I'm sure it's been discussed there. Proves, that what is old is new.
Message: Posted by: Gerald Deutsch (Mar 6, 2020 09:07AM)
I use Lapping to vanish a coin while seated:

1 Coin is in my right hand and I pretend to put it in my left. (There are many ways to do this.)

2 My right hand reaches for a salt shaker on the table to my right. In doing so my right hand travels in a "U" from my left hand to the shaker.

3 At the "bottom" of the "U" my left hand is over my lap and the coin is let go.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (May 21, 2020 10:05AM)
Strolling through old posts and found this thread. Ever since people began to perform mostly stand up coin magic, lapping has become more of an "old fashioned" approach to magic. Everyone thinks that magic should be done stand up, no table. Well, I feel that there is a time and place for everything. Sure, standing up without a table is versitile. Standing up in front of a table lends itself to formal shows or table hopping. But how many of us just like to show something to family and friends? And the best time to do that (not talking about the world's current situation) is after dinner when everyone is sitting at the table. And if you perform magic when sitting at a table, lapping is a very useful weapon. One thing that I learned years afo. When you stand up at the table you are now performing FOR them. When you are performing while sitting, you are performing WITH them. Also, when sitting, the audience can see you and the coins at the same time. When you stand, the audience has to look up, then down, then up, then down. These are the advantages of sit down magic, and as I said, if you are going to sit, you can use lapping when needed.
Message: Posted by: Bob G (May 21, 2020 07:14PM)
Very happy to hear this, Michael. I perform seated because of its friendliness and informality. (I like the way you put it: with vs. for.) It's nice to have this counter-pressure to all the people who have told me on the Café that standing is the "right" way to go.

Tom G., Do you know the name of the DVD on lapping? If you own it, would you recommend it?

Thanks, folks,

Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (May 21, 2020 11:27PM)
There's the five-DVD set "LAP" by Juan Tamariz, Yann Frisch and Dani DaOrtiz.
Message: Posted by: Bob G (May 21, 2020 11:29PM)
Thanks, Ray.