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Topic: Info help for Wiki sources for Kellar and Herrmann bios
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 5, 2009 04:39PM)
I am updating the profiles of the magicians like Kellar and Alexander Herrmann on Wikipedia. The problem is that for pictures that I am downloading, they want copyrights. I submitted the http addresses from the websites where I got it from, but it does not suffice. They want actual copyrights.

These pictures have been in so many books, itís difficult to know who owns the rights. If anyone can help to make the magic section better, please contact me or update them with Wikipedia.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 5, 2009 05:08PM)
I just noticed that took out my article on Kellar. I hope they approve it because they have been giving me trouble.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 6, 2009 03:31PM)
I've made more changes on Kellar and it seems like they haven't deleted it yet. So, I hope it stays on as is.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 10, 2009 10:54PM)
Unfortunately, you are dealing with a group of people who know very little about this subject. For information on copyrights on the photos you have uploaded, check Milbourne Christopher's book. The same photos may be in there.

I stay away from there, because I will not support any web site that exposes magic.
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 11, 2009 01:25AM)
I'm beginning to find out how frustrating they are. I wanted a nice bio on Kellar. What was offered before was stingy and someone of Kellar's fame deserves something more. So, I did some research and wrote a nice bio. I guess they thought it was too long because they edited it down.

Now if you see bios of other artists like Mozart, they are long and informative. They reduced Kellar to just a reference and nothing more. I tried to reinsert my original piece, but they edited it back out. The guy said that he work long and hard on it. Hey, so did I.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 11, 2009 11:27AM)
Now you know one reason that I don't consider Wikipedia a significant reference.
Message: Posted by: mrmagician (Mar 13, 2009 03:03AM)
Has anyone tried to enter anything under the name of Kellar The Magician, or Henry Kellar? Years ago a friend of mine had a deck of cards from the late 1800's or very early 1900's. The deck is of famous actors of the day. There was a famous actor's photo on the face of every card. Thumbing through the cards, I spotted Harry Kellar. Under his photo, the name listed is Henry Kellar, not Harry Kellar. I thought this to be very odd. Now, this was after Kellar was along in his performing years, for he had an aged look to his face and was compeltely bald. I can not remember the name of the card company that put this deck out. They also put out other decks that would show a different topic photo on each card. If anyone has a deck of these, I would be interested in hearing from you.

I noticed the current Wikipedia listing does show that he is sometimes referred to as Henry Kellar. Try entering a biography under the name of Kellar the Magician and blow the other one away.

It is arrogant for one to think they have written the definitive summary description on anything.

Garry Hayes
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 13, 2009 09:50AM)
Too bad you don't know that friend now. Kellar would have been completely bald during the time frame you mentioned. By looking at the pictures of him, does he look like the gentleman on the cards you saw? What was the spelling of his name? As far as I can tell, there was only one person that used his name with that spelling. All o f the other Kellerís use the e instead of the a.

It was frustrating to do the article. I felt good about what I have contributed, then to get it edited down was disappointing. They are being accurate with their edits, they are not adding anything that is not true. Itís just that they are trimming too much. I wanted someone who is not familiar with our great history to understand the complexity of the character of Kellar as well as enjoy his story. I also listed a section that briefly described what his tricks would look like to the audience, but that was trimmed down too.

As far as I can tell, the section I did on Alexander Herrmann seems untouched.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 13, 2009 03:59PM)
The reason that all of the other Kellers user the er spelling is that Keller is a German name. The word means "cellar" or "basement." Kellar would basically be a misspelling. He probably adopted that spelling so he could make a legal claim on it.
Message: Posted by: mrmagician (Mar 14, 2009 08:19AM)
I am going from memory. I am fairly certain the name captioned under his photo was Henry Kellar, not Henry Keller. Now, anyone buying this deck of cards would have not recognized him as a magician, unless the person was a magician and had seen Kellar in person. The card box clearly stated "American Actors and Actresses". Any Joe thumbing through would have thought he was just an actor. Who knows, maybe Kellar did some acting. I have some 8x10 photos of Howard Thurston, which are not in a magic stage setting. They are stage sets that appear to be theater acting venues. I beleive Ken Klosterman has a deck of these cards. If you are interested in it any further, you might contact him.
Garry Hayes
Message: Posted by: mtpascoe (Mar 14, 2009 04:05PM)
In those days I noticed they called stage performers actors. Also, back at the turn of the last century, no one would have confused Kellar with a regular stage actor in or out of the magic community. He was just as popular then as David Copperfield is now.

And thanks Bill about the meaning of his name. I didn't know that. The reason I can gather from the magic bios why Kellar changed his name was not to be confused with Robert Heller. But, he changed it long before he had the controversy over the name. After Heller died, Kellar had come back to his home country and found the American press to be cold to him thinking he was capitalizing on the dead magicians fame.