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Topic: Owning a big illusion, getting a stage show, realizing dreams <????>
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 06:48PM)
I want to find out how does one get to be able to afford all the big illusions that I see many performing out there. It just gets me and makes me wonder how young people that are 14 and up (around that age) can afford them ?

Also I would like someone to tell me and help in giving me information on how does someone goes about in putting a stage show with the lights, music and all that ?
Also tips, and help in advertising/promoting the magic shows.

I have been performing for a few years. I do all types of events and specialize in kids magic shows. Even now things slow trying to find out ways of advertising my magic shows to get more business and all that. U know what I mean ?

I have always dreamed and wanted to one day be able to have a stage show with the lights and all that and at least 1 big illusions. So far that hasn't happen. After all I don't get that lucky.

I have been trying to ask for help different places and so far everyone has refused and critize me. C'mon I just need help. Don't we all ? Also see that many out there get to perform at the end the same routines and all that like many have done on tv and other shows. Just want to know as well how everyone get to learn them and find out all that and such.

If someone understand what I mean and understands my frustration as well and what I want to accomplish please let me know and feel free to contact me. I appreciate any help you can give me and such.

Thanks in advance for reading this posting and any future help !

Take care and hear from you all soon.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Mar 27, 2009 07:03PM)
[quote]It just gets me and makes me wonder how young people that are 14 and up (around that age) can afford them ?
[/quote]

Parents with money.

[quote]Also I would like someone to tell me and help in giving me information on how does someone goes about in putting a stage show with the lights, music and all that ? [/quote]

Well, it doesn't happen overnight. Most of us didn't wake up one morning and decide "I think I'll buy some stage lights and sound equipment today, right after I pick up 4 illusions for the show that I have decided to do".

Doing a larger show requires a financial investment. Most magicians begin with used equipment, purchased from another magician who does not want the trick any longer. Another option is to purchase the building plans to an illusion and have a local carpenter build it for you.

There is no "easy way", short of inheriting the money or winning the lottery. We can all sympathize with your frustration, but there is no shortcut.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 07:11PM)
Thanks for the information. I know it requires $$$$ (money). I am sure we all wish can have easy money - disposable - to afford everything easy but is not like that.

I was just also asking to find out how you see everyone doing the same routines and same patters. How they found them out and such and accomplish that ? besides buying them of course. You can go and buy the stuff but not all the routines out there come written like that but at the end they all do the same thing and get customize stuff and such.

Thanks for the info about the buying used, the illusion plans, etc...
I have heard that before.

Just wanted to know how everyone out there seem to accomplish the same and more. Like what is the "secret" to that and the process for that. Do you need connections and other "ways" ? I know I know... besides money !$$$ LOL
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 07:19PM)
I am building my illusions right now. I am only building ones that are in public domain.

I am slowly putting my illusion show together. I purchased a Lester Lake Guillotine last June and a chair suspension in November.

Most young illusionists started small. I started doing birthday parties and am now doing stage shows, slowly saving money to build and buy bigger things.

You need to take time and start slow. You sound young, are you 14 like your post mentions?

What shows are you doing now? Like Christopher said, it is not overnight. Take your time and build up your show.

There are performers that are copying each other, but the copycats are the ones that go nowhere. You do not want to be one of them. It takes time to come up with your own routines and patter, and that is what takes time, along with practicing.

As far as getting refused information, don't post questions that are searching for secrets, people will not tell you. "Been trying to find out how is that done and also to find out more information about that trick to see if I can add it to my show." is not something you want to say when asking about an effect.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 07:28PM)
Ok - thanks for the info. I know how to start small and go from there. But I am also looking for help and tips and such on how to advertise my business and get gigs... without gigs can't get money to buy the illusions and more tricks in general.

Me 14 ? LOL I wish !
No, I am 32 and I have been doing magic shows for a while. I specialize in children magic shows. I am also a magic dealer.

Thanks again and appreciate your input at any time and help !
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 07:36PM)
There is a ton of marketing advice in the Tricky Business section.

Do you have a website? If so, is it optimized for search engines? Are you listed in any magician directories
Put up business cards on community bulletin boards.

When ever I do a birthday party, I do free closeup for the adults, which I do not advertise, so that they the person who hired thinks they got more for their money, so they are likely to recommend me to friends. Also when doing closeup, I have my business cards in a holder on my table. I also use my business card in one of my closeup routines.

I also donate shows. I was contacted by the local ambulance corps for their family fun day. I said I will do the show for them, all they have to do is put me in the fliers.

Do whatever it takes for people to see your name and contact info.

Also, if you want to get a stage show, start buying effects! You don't have to have a show that takes a truck to carry. You can fill an auditorium with effects that fit in a suitcase. Start building the show.
Message: Posted by: Jack Murray (Mar 27, 2009 07:44PM)
Mrwiz, I am moving my shop to St. Pete Florida in May. Look me up if you get in town!

Jack
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 07:55PM)
I was just on your website, and you seem to have a lot of props.

Just because you use a prop in a kids show, does not mean it can only entertain kids. I have fooled and entertained rooms full of adults with hippity hop rabbits (I say that because I see them on your website)

A great book, if you don't have it already, is Mark Wilson's Encyclopedia of Magic. It has tons of great effects and information.

Remember, magic is not just the props, but the entertainment you provide. Check out this thread for ideas: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=90044&forum=8&55 You can get 15 minutes with rope, scissors and a ring, and to be honest, you can get better reactions from that than a $5000 box (how many of those boxes will it take to fill 15 minutes :P).

You also said that you regret coming here. DON'T regret it. Look at all of the information you are getting in just this thread alone!
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 08:08PM)
I hope I did not offend you when I asked if you were 14. It was not my intention, just a serious question, since you mentioned that number.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 08:09PM)
Yes, I do have a web site and is listed on the search engines.


I have done several free shows for organizations and charities and such. My name has been added in their advertisement and such. Even though still not much really. So I have done and been doing all that as you mentioned already and also been leaving my business cards here and there and on boards too.

I know that can entertain adults with kids routines. Done it many times already and they had no idea they have just seen "a kid routine" and they enjoy it more at times than the kids LOL

I have done also 2 shows that have been on a stage and have had music to them and stuff like that. Simple thing and not all that ya now. But at the end people liked the show and such.

All this shows done them in different parts of Florida. I used to live in South Florida and now living in North Florida. Also seems that is Florida and not good. Then again I seen that many of the magicians out there are in many other states and only a few in Florida. Seen that the ones making it are not in FL for sure. LOL Maybe I have been in the wrong State for a long time. LOL


I know can fill a suitcase with a whole show no matter what. Just wanting to see what effects I can learn, add to my show, (collection), and also mainly to get more gigs. Advertise my business and such.
I will look in the Tricky Business section as you mentioned to see what info I can find there that can help me and I can learn from others have posted - discussed about.

You mentioned you saw my web site ? I take you found out my web site without me telling you wich one is it. LOL

Yup I know is not all about the props but the presentation and such. I do that like that in my shows and all that.

In conclusion just gets me and was wondering and wanting to know how people do it and such since there are so many out there doing such and succeding. I don't seem to be able much and not such luck.

Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 08:11PM)
Jack Murray: Where are you now ?
I been to St. Pete once to visit. That's about it.

I am in the North Florida Panhandle area. Just saw your web site and see you sell all the big illusions and very expensive. Need to save lots of money in order to buy any of them. When I have the $ then I will get one.
To bad they don't have "rent to own" ilusions like they do this days for TV's, furniture, and all that. LOL
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 08:13PM)
No you didn't offended me when you said if I was 14. That is why I said I wish. Many of us wish that can be teenagers again but knowing what we know now. LOL
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 08:20PM)
The amount of magicians in any given state on the site does not represent the number of magicians that are performing in the state, just the ones that choose to be listed.

Since I do not know how you perform or your style, it is hard to recommend any tricks, my suggestion is to go on youtube and watch videos of other magicians, not for the routines and patter, but for the effects that they are doing. Write down a description of the effect and if you don't know the name of it, ask! Think about how you would entertain an audience with it.

Mark Wilson's book is a great resource. So is the Jeff McBride stage magic DVD series. Any dvd under the title "Worlds Greatest Magic" is excellent. They are put out by L&L Publishing.

Do you have a routine that you can open with that is strong as well as something strong to close with? can you list some effects that you do already?

I found your website by googling "Mr Wiz magic florida" and confirmed it with the name Javi from the AIM name you listed in your profile.

To get your picture, got to this link: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/bb_profile.php?mode=edit and upload it.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 08:44PM)
Oh, that explains how you found my web site. Well it also shows that I can be found online LOL

Thanks for the info on uploading my picture. Will do.
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 27, 2009 10:03PM)
Back to you Mr. Wiz. I happen to be a great illusionist, or what I prefer to call an 'illuzionist', note the way cool 'z'. Back to the question at hand. If you get plans or can make your own plans check with a local trade school and see if they can help you out. My wifes uncle (or what we cool people call unkle) is retired from a big trade school in Mass. but he would hook me up with talented kids to make all kinds of stuff for next to nothing or nothing. Worth considering.

Yours in leather clad stage prancing,
The Great Santerio (formerly of Jacksonville)
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 27, 2009 10:36PM)
MagicSanta:

Ha ha... you're funny.

What do you mean exactly by local trade school ?
I am bad and have no skills to build things or handyman so not good at that. Wish I was. So when it comes to that I have to look/find other people to do the job that needs to be done when it comes to "handyman work".

Where you located ?
Yes, I noticed the "z" in your illuzionist !
Do you have a web site that you advertise your magic shows ?

Hear from you soon.
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Mar 27, 2009 10:46PM)
If you purchase illusion plans (public domain, or original plans!), you can go to a local carpenter or cabinet maker and they can build it for you, rather than going to an illusion builder. It is likely to bee a quite a bit cheaper.
Message: Posted by: The Mirror Images (Mar 27, 2009 10:59PM)
Other sources to look for lower priced illusions are

http://www.magicauction.com
http://www.illusionsource.com

The best way to start is to start small and grow. This is again not an overnight thing. It will take a lot of small shows to help build up for a new addition.

Look around at what is out there from plans, to what builders are offering. You are at one of the best resourced boards in the magic industry. Use it to your advatage by asking questions. There are several people here that are truly knowlegable. Use it cause the best thing is we all work togeather to build our industry. Even though we are competition to each other, we all work togeather to keep this industry alive. How can you beat that!!

Best,
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Mar 28, 2009 11:09AM)
This post might have more truth than you want to hear, so please forgive me up front if I come across too blunt.

Buying a stage illusion is like buying any other big ticket item in your life.

You could charge it on a credit card, and then work at paying that off (with interest). Not necessarily the best option. Same for getting a loan to buy it. A lot less likely, and not a great option.

OR, the BETTER way to do it, is to save up money every month, and then buy the thing with the money you saved up for the purchase.

If you want it quicker, then book more shows right now, and earn the money quicker.

In other words, make your own luck!

And also, shortcuts usually do you more harm then good, because you don't learn the discipline of how to be successful. This is why poor people who win the lottery frequently burn through their money and end up right back where they started.

- Donald

P.S. Re: the topic of marketing / promotion. Here's a link to one thread to get you started:

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=143623&forum=44]--> Magic Café thread titled... Help: Booking New customers[/url]

As you were told earlier, there is lots of help in the Tricky Business section of the Café, if you take the time to read through all of the posts. Also, there are marketing books and courses out there that will help you to learn about the business aspect of your shows.

I am a firm believer in the idea of investing in your education. You need to spend money, as well as time, to learn how to be better. Life is not handed to you on a silver platter.

P.S. There are really dual paths you will need to follow. (1) You will need to learn to be a better performer. Props are only one tiny part of that. (2) And, you will need to learn to be a better marketer / business person.
Message: Posted by: MagicMichealMan (Mar 28, 2009 12:41PM)
Wow, I find the term "parents with money" offensive.

I am 14 going on 15 and everything I buy I do with the money I made from my shows that I booked. in the end it al results in hard work, My parents are probably the most supportave when it comes to my magic. But they would NEVER just buy an illusion for me, I have to earn it and make the magic happen myself.

magic mike
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 28, 2009 12:51PM)
In 35 years, I have been directly or indirectly responsible for a dozen careers in magic. From Rudy Coby, Jeff McBride, Harvey Berg, Jaire Bronnaire, and David haines to name a few. David is probably the biggest success story and when he was young, I responsibly guided him in creating some illusions, buying and building some as well. His parents had some money and he was an only child but with a passion.
Each Case was different, Rudy started out as my assistant on all of my kids shows and after a while he went off on his tangent, I gave out a lot of shows to all my students. Bottom line, you need a mentor: a good shop willing to guide rather than sell you. A location that has venues to perform once you get the act together (you need a place to be bad). Most of all, you need personality and some talent.
Rather than get some illusions, I suggest that you start particpating in some local theater to get your stage presence down. Maybe even take a class in dance.
A illusion act evolves and pays for itself in increments.
Haines has been doing cruise ships , but has(d) two tractor trailers of illusions and has done thousands of shows.
You only need the basics of an act and not a lot of money. Do a scout show or club/organization with a 1/2 hr to 45 minute act and do one bigger illusion.
Build it up to two or three and let the minor stuff decrease as it will eventually be your filler.
I have seen so many performers get the apparatus and wind up with a boring group of generic big illusions. Pick one and try to make it your signature piece.
The cardinal rule is entertainment first.
If you do theater, and dance movement and incorporate that all into the act, then get the big show.
As far as affording big illusions: everyday somewhere in the world, entire illusion shows become available. In this economy bargains prevail. The problem is being selective. Take a shot and buy a collection, use one or two pieces and sell the rest to pay for the ones you keep. Thousands of acts fall out of magic every day. I know one fellow locally, who drank too much and divorced a wife. He started doing other work to show a court that he could make a living (other than magic) in order to prove he could take care of the kids. He dumped all of his illusions cheap. What I am saying, there are different motivations for acts up for grab. Search , search, search the ads.
The local club auctions are a great source for cheap illusions. Some of the conventions have auctions as well. Recently, I saw dollhouses, mismades, and zig-zags for under $200. Its out there.
Message: Posted by: chill (Mar 28, 2009 02:53PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-28 13:51, magicians wrote:
In 35 years, I have been directly or indirectly responsible for a dozen careers in magic. From Rudy Coby, Jeff McBride, Harvey Berg, Jaire Bronnaire, and David haines to name a few. David is probably the biggest success story and when he was young, I responsibly guided him in creating some illusions, buying and building some as well. His parents had some money and he was an only child but with a passion.
Each Case was different, Rudy started out as my assistant on all of my kids shows and after a while he went off on his tangent, I gave out a lot of shows to all my students. Bottom line, you need a mentor: a good shop willing to guide rather than sell you. A location that has venues to perform once you get the act together (you need a place to be bad). Most of all, you need personality and some talent.
Rather than get some illusions, I suggest that you start particpating in some local theater to get your stage presence down. Maybe even take a class in dance.
A illusion act evolves and pays for itself in increments.
Haines has been doing cruise ships , but has(d) two tractor trailers of illusions and has done thousands of shows.
You only need the basics of an act and not a lot of money. Do a scout show or club/organization with a 1/2 hr to 45 minute act and do one bigger illusion.
Build it up to two or three and let the minor stuff decrease as it will eventually be your filler.
I have seen so many performers get the apparatus and wind up with a boring group of generic big illusions. Pick one and try to make it your signature piece.
The cardinal rule is entertainment first.
If you do theater, and dance movement and incorporate that all into the act, then get the big show.
As far as affording big illusions: everyday somewhere in the world, entire illusion shows become available. In this economy bargains prevail. The problem is being selective. Take a shot and buy a collection, use one or two pieces and sell the rest to pay for the ones you keep. Thousands of acts fall out of magic every day. I know one fellow locally, who drank too much and divorced a wife. He started doing other work to show a court that he could make a living (other than magic) in order to prove he could take care of the kids. He dumped all of his illusions cheap. What I am saying, there are different motivations for acts up for grab. Search , search, search the ads.
The local club auctions are a great source for cheap illusions. Some of the conventions have auctions as well. Recently, I saw dollhouses, mismades, and zig-zags for under $200. Its out there.
[/quote]

so good it had to be said twice....
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Mar 28, 2009 03:10PM)
I will point out that being an adult trying to save up for a prop, and being a teen trying to save up for a prop, are completely different things.

As a self-supporting adult, you have to deal with food, shelter, clothing, utility bills, taxes (not just income tax), automotive expenses, etc. first.

As a teen, living at home, your parents cover all (or at least most) of that for you. Any money you earn from shows, is much more discretionary.

Of course, all income from shows must be declared and reported to the government, for them to tax properly. But still as a teen, you don't have a lot of other things in your life that impact your ability to save up money quickly.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: MagicSanta (Mar 28, 2009 07:37PM)
Lil' Magic Michael, there are always exceptions to rules, then there are guys who's mommies pay for everything until, hopefully they make money on their own...coughcoughCrissAngelcoughcough.

Mr. Wiz, a trade school or vocational school trains kids and others how to be cooks, electricians, mechanics, CABNET MAKERS, machinist etc, usually found in metro areas. If you have plans you might be able to get them to build you what you need as a project. Believe me, these kids do a great job and should serve your purpose. My wifes uncle taught machining and he had all the equipment for computer machining to regular hand worked lathes. The cabnet guys could make anything out of wood and the teacher would give 'em extra credit!
Message: Posted by: Mad Jack (Mar 28, 2009 07:46PM)
Well, there really is a lot of good advice on here! After 22 years doing large illusions on big stages all over the U.S. and Asia, I have learned 3 things.

1)Buy a sword basket as your first real illusion. This is advice that Johnathan Pendragon gave me as a kid and I am passing it on. It is the best illusion you can own as a beginning illusionist (more on this later). Other magicians that come to your show may not think so, but it is... Which brings me to number

2)Never care what other magicians think you your sword basket! (they are usually not the people paying your salary)

3) Make your own destiny. Meaning: Don't sit around waiting for the phone to ring. Don't (when you do get some illusions and a good working promo DVD) wait for agents and producers to give you your "big break". You are playing incredible odds and it probably won't happen. We now live in an age where you have to (for the most part) produce yourself if you want to be sure to "realize your dreams".

Now... About that sword basket. It is reletively small, inexpensive (an Abbott's runs around $400 and can be painted, put in a base and re-themed to look almost as good as an Owen's), and is easy to stage under ANY conditions. It is AMAZING to almost any audience and can't be figured out during set-up, tear-down, etc. Even if people come up after your show and look inside, they are just as amazed because it is just a basket! (Try having someone examine your origami after the show and see where that gets you.) It also will teach you (and your assistant) how to move well and interact well together in front of an audience. I just did my Chalet basket last night (Fri. 3-27-09) and from behind the curtain I heard people talking about it after the show. They had no idea how it was done. It never ceases to amaze me....LOL...

Just my random thoughts...

Mad Jack
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 29, 2009 11:22AM)
Ok, I have a trade school in my area. Will talk to them and see.
Also thanks for all the advice posted here. I am still reading it through and I will be contacting ALL of you privately so you will hear from me soon :)

Thanks and still working to achieve my magic goals....dreams ! I am not a teenager but an adult. Otherwise would be able to have a big illusion quicker like Donald Dunphy said that it is not the same as we adults have more expenses and is not the same.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Mar 29, 2009 11:31AM)
Great advice MadJack! ;)
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Mar 29, 2009 01:04PM)
Do what I am doing. Start with packs small-plays HUGE illusions, and PVC pipe illusions, charge a decent amount of money for a show and work your way up from there. Illusions and magic does not need to be expensive to be big. Check out Andrew Mayne's Razor Wire, Spector Cabinet, and Light Storm for starters. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: Chris Stolz (Mar 29, 2009 01:10PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-28 20:46, Mad Jack wrote:
Well, there really is a lot of good advice on here! After 22 years doing large illusions on big stages all over the U.S. and Asia, I have learned 3 things.

1)Buy a sword basket as your first real illusion. This is advice that Johnathan Pendragon gave me as a kid and I am passing it on. It is the best illusion you can own as a beginning illusionist (more on this later). Other magicians that come to your show may not think so, but it is... Which brings me to number

2)Never care what other magicians think you your sword basket! (they are usually not the people paying your salary)

3) Make your own destiny. Meaning: Don't sit around waiting for the phone to ring. Don't (when you do get some illusions and a good working promo DVD) wait for agents and producers to give you your "big break". You are playing incredible odds and it probably won't happen. We now live in an age where you have to (for the most part) produce yourself if you want to be sure to "realize your dreams".

Now... About that sword basket. It is reletively small, inexpensive (an Abbott's runs around $400 and can be painted, put in a base and re-themed to look almost as good as an Owen's), and is easy to stage under ANY conditions. It is AMAZING to almost any audience and can't be figured out during set-up, tear-down, etc. Even if people come up after your show and look inside, they are just as amazed because it is just a basket! (Try having someone examine your origami after the show and see where that gets you.) It also will teach you (and your assistant) how to move well and interact well together in front of an audience. I just did my Chalet basket last night (Fri. 3-27-09) and from behind the curtain I heard people talking about it after the show. They had no idea how it was done. It never ceases to amaze me....LOL...

Just my random thoughts...

Mad Jack
[/quote]

He's right. My wife and I caught his show in North Carolina on our vacation and his sword basket IS a real pleaser! The little bit with the white flag just killed me...
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 29, 2009 01:24PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-27 19:48, mrwiz wrote:
I want to find out how does one get to be able to afford all the big illusions that I see many performing out there. It just gets me and makes me wonder how young people that are 14 and up (around that age) can afford them ?

Also I would like someone to tell me and help in giving me information on how does someone goes about in putting a stage show with the lights, music and all that ?
Also tips, and help in advertising/promoting the magic shows.

I have been performing for a few years. I do all types of events and specialize in kids magic shows. Even now things slow trying to find out ways of advertising my magic shows to get more business and all that. U know what I mean ?

I have always dreamed and wanted to one day be able to have a stage show with the lights and all that and at least 1 big illusions. So far that hasn't happen. After all I don't get that lucky.

I have been trying to ask for help different places and so far everyone has refused and critize me. C'mon I just need help. Don't we all ? Also see that many out there get to perform at the end the same routines and all that like many have done on tv and other shows. Just want to know as well how everyone get to learn them and find out all that and such.

If someone understand what I mean and understands my frustration as well and what I want to accomplish please let me know and feel free to contact me. I appreciate any help you can give me and such.

Thanks in advance for reading this posting and any future help !

Take care and hear from you all soon.
[/quote]
One last thing, Mr. Wiz...you are in Pennsacola..are you a member of the magic club up there. It is a huge club with quite a few illusionists. That's where you will get the help you want. Maybe even apprentice with one of them to really see what it takes to do and get that type of a show going.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Mar 29, 2009 03:31PM)
I have heard that Jim Snack's [url=http://www.success-in-magic.com/]Success-in-Magic Course[/url] is a great investment, if you want to learn how to build a business in magic.

More info about the course on [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=272705&forum=44]this thread[/url], as well as other threads:

- Donald

P.S. Even though I don't have any of Jim's products or courses, I have met him in person and heard him teach. He shares terrific information. For example, check out [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=140086&forum=44]Jim's posts on this thread[/url] (especially his post second from the bottom of the first page), or find other posts he has written.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 29, 2009 03:36PM)
Magicians: I am not in Pensacola. I am 2 hours away from Pensacola. Actually I belong to a local magic club that meets in Pensacola. Been for a long time. Don't get to go to the meetings often because of the distance and other things. I also do their web site and had for a long time.
This magic club is an independent club but also a combined club for a S.A.M. Assembly and an I.B.M. Ring.
The name of the club is: The Gulf Coast Magicians Guild
and you can check out the web site at: http://www.gulfcoastmagicians.com

I talked to a few members already and so far no one really does big illusions or anything like that. Thanks for the feedback.
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Mar 29, 2009 03:42PM)
Number one, forget about buying illusions and stage equipment until you know, beyond any question, who this guy -- that your audience is going to see -- is. Successful performers in any field have a distinct personality and point of view. They are not just vehicles for their material.

When I was performing, many years ago, I spent probably more time on defining who I was and why I did what I did, and what I wanted to say with it, and why I wanted to say that and not something else, than I did on practicing. And it made a huge difference moneywise.

Study lots of other entertainers -- not just magicians. Last night we were watching the DVD of the latest Indiana Jones movie, and Indy said something that should be carved on every aspiring performer's bedroom ceiling. He and Mutt were on the motorcycle and barged into the library and slid under the tables. Then a student asked Indy a question and he started to answer it. But as they rode off, Indy turned around and said, "If you want to be a good archaeologist, you have to get out of the library."

Go for it. Just don't repeat the same mistakes many others have made.
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 29, 2009 07:52PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-29 16:36, mrwiz wrote:
Magicians: I am not in Pensacola. I am 2 hours away from Pensacola. Actually I belong to a local magic club that meets in Pensacola. Been for a long time. Don't get to go to the meetings often because of the distance and other things. I also do their web site and had for a long time.
This magic club is an independent club but also a combined club for a S.A.M. Assembly and an I.B.M. Ring.
The name of the club is: The Gulf Coast Magicians Guild
and you can check out the web site at: http://www.gulfcoastmagicians.com

I talked to a few members already and so far no one really does big illusions or anything like that. Thanks for the feedback.
[/quote]
I know the club well, I lectured at the other club in Ft. Walton beach last year, I just bought a used walkaway super-x from an illusionist in Destin. http://thefunconnection.com/Magic.htm . I am looking to resell it, I only needed it for one show. I know Bruce for several years now.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 29, 2009 08:59PM)
So you know Bruce too ! hehehe
That means you lectured at Brian's club. I never been to any of their meetings in Ft. Walton but many of the members there are members of the club in Pensacola as well.

Where in Florida do you live ?
Message: Posted by: magicians (Mar 30, 2009 08:04AM)
Central Florida, near Wildwood (on the Turnpike). 45 minutes from orlando/1 hr from Tampa.
My next lecture is on April 16th in Winter Haven, Florida. Our club is having John Calvert lecture on the 13th, and a huge show on the 14th. Our annual IBM fundraiser.
Featuring: Bev Bergeron, myself, Calvert, and some club members. I only know Bruce Walstad casually. OOps, I am in promotional mode. I am producing the show.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Mar 30, 2009 09:53AM)
We just had John Calvert lecture at the Pensacola club. I couldn't attend though.
I think I receive your e-mails about upcoming events and stuff from your club in my e-mail. Also I think I replied back to you to find out who you were but I am not sure. Very bad memory here ! hahaha
My e-mail address is: magicjavi@aol.com

Bruce is a nice guy and funny ! :)

I talked to Bev Bergeron once or twice before on Facebook. Never meet him in person, yet.

I live in North Florida as said before but used to live in South Florida.
So you are in Central Florida. Wow.... close to Disney !!!! ha ha
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Mar 30, 2009 01:02PM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-29 16:42, George Ledo wrote:
Number one, forget about buying illusions and stage equipment until you know, beyond any question, who this guy -- that your audience is going to see -- is. [/quote]

Wow... there have been some really good comments on this thread!

I've always said that at the edge of every performance area is a set of balance scales. In order to succeed we just have to tip the scales a little bit in our favor. If you're doing an effect for a friend, by virtue of the fact that you know what's going to happen and they don't, you've got a good chance of success! On the other hand, as your audience grows, so must your ability to control and sustain the energy for the size of your audience. Many do well in a group of 30 - 50 people but for 2000 people in a large theater, can't sustain that load.

These skills are equally as important as anything else in your arsenal. It is the MAIN reason that people who simply purchase a lot of illusions and try doing a full evening show usually fall flat. I've seen it with so called "award-winning" magicians with a VERY strong 15 minute act fall apart when shifting up to a 1 hour + show in a full size venue.

I worked doing a small 15 minute act for years, then got one feature illusion to close with for the larger shows. The eventually added a second illusion as an opener when I could use it. That was for about 5 years including playing Vegas, Reno, Tahoe, etc. all the while just trying to develop my skill set for those 15 minutes.

Eventually I got a shot to do a 25 minute set. I expanded my base set to add in a personality piece in the second spot, and a ballad in the center. That was another few years getting the 25 - 30 minute set to stand strong. Then came the 45 minute "full" set which is normal for private events where they need a full show for after dinner, banquets, the second act of "Multi Magician" Magic or Variety Shows, etc. That was about 3 - 4 years.

Eventually I got enough material and more importantly the tool set to "support" not just the time but the "weight" of 2000 - 3000 seat houses. With larger shows, I feel like you are literally carrying the weight of that audience on your shoulders. You are their guide, and you alone are responsible for their journey.

Additionally, when your price goes up, so do the expectations. Buyers don't pay for what you own, they pay for results. A professional is judged on consistency, but I feel that it is consistence of result, not consistence of execution. A real pro isn't just someone who does the exact same act every time, it's someone who consistently kill the audience every time. It might take changing your timing depending on the size and shape of the audience, or maybe it's after dinner and their reaction timing is slower, or their demographic will affect it.

These aren't things that come with the instructions for a Zig Zag. They come from years of trial and error, making mistakes when it isn't critical and learning your performance technique to balance out your technical magic and showmanship.

Ok, enough of my rambling!
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Mar 31, 2009 05:45PM)
Not rambling at all, WDI, you've added some great thoughts to a thread that has lots of them, but could always use more.

Regards,

Jim
Message: Posted by: Senor Rai (Mar 31, 2009 06:56PM)
Javier, I have just PM'D you !
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Apr 2, 2009 11:17AM)
MwWiz-

Some thoughts- please forgive if they have been made as I have not read every post:

1. If you are doing kids shows and want to move to stage, you need to appeal to the adults that are there. Have one or two stage-type effects and do everythig you can to have adults attend the show so they can see some of your more adult stuff. Word of mouth is great advertising- but not by kids so much.

2. Have a "Program" at every show- kids or otherwise. The program serves to advertise your act- it can be more adult, and certainly should include some blatant ad clips, phone number, web address, etc.

3. One of the best ways to get good free advertising is to do good free shows for popular local charities, especially those supported by the media.

4. Great stage shows do not necessarily need big, expensive illusions. A long piece of fat, white rope can be seen from the back row and is about as magical as anything else. 12" rings the same. They do not need to be the expensive kind- you can get those later. Cheap ones work great! Flash cotton and a cheap finger lighter really look great in a routine. Doves are cheap and really neat to work with... etc.

As I said, just some thoughts...

Jim
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 2, 2009 06:47PM)
Thanks for your thoughts and feed back. I appreciate it and you are right... will take all that into mind and into action when work into all this when it comes to my show and such.

Speaking about all this I am trying also to find out what to send out in the mail like to businesses and other prospective clients to advertise letting them know about what I have to offer. Like what type of letter to put together, and/or brochure and stuff. No one so far that I have asked would tell me. Like I have asked other magicians for maybe send me out what they are sending out so I can have an idea/guide so I can make my own but nothing.

So then wondering how I can get that info and what to put together to send out and such.

Thanks again for your help and hear from you all soon.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Apr 2, 2009 06:50PM)
I think you may want to read Hustle Hustle and watch the Hustle Intensive 2 videos by Joel Bauer. If you can't book shows after reading and watching those materials you never will. Both are available from Brad Burt. http://www.magicshop.com

:devilish:
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 2, 2009 07:08PM)
Is this the Hustle Intensive videos you talking about ?
http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=bburt&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=151851832&Count2=68992257

Ouch... they are expensive - $159.95
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Apr 2, 2009 07:18PM)
Yes, that would be it. It is worth sooooooooooooooooooo much more than the $160. They will more than pay for themselves after the 1st show. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 2, 2009 07:21PM)
Ok.. .I will try to see if I can get them at wholesale price.
Message: Posted by: dpe666 (Apr 2, 2009 10:38PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 20:21, mrwiz wrote:
Ok.. .I will try to see if I can get them at wholesale price.
[/quote]

It is a Brad Burt exclusive, so don't bet on it. I get the impression that you are one of the cheapest people on the planet. :devilish:
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 3, 2009 09:13AM)
I will look into it, thanks.

The cheapest people on the planet ? LOL
Don't make me laugh. I am sure I am not the only one always looking for the best deals and lowest prices. Also not only in magic items but also things in general. Specially this days how things are and how the economy is.

Am I wrong ? Anyone wants to speak up/comment ? Go ahead. *cough, cough*
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Apr 3, 2009 09:23AM)
[quote]
Ok.. .I will try to see if I can get them at wholesale price.
[/quote]
That is not trying to get the best price. Things are at the prices they are for reasons.

It is information that is not for everyone. Those dvds are a collection of what took Joel Bauer a lifetime to learn. Real world experience and advice.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 3, 2009 09:40AM)
I can see that you don't have bills to pay and other important responsabilities like an adult. When you live with your parents it is much easier to afford the magic tricks and stuff you want since that is the only expenses you have and not necesities to pay. When someone have other main expenses (necesities to live) then have to manage money wisely, and watch every penny (specially in this day's economy)

I am sure many of the adults magicians out there with this responsabilities will agree with me and more reason to look for the best prices and deals !

When you don't have those expenses like you do then you can afford easily all those tricks and whatever you want and such. Momy and daddy will pay for the rest.

This subject was already commented previously at another forum here that someone talked about. I think you posted there too. Then again you post an all the forums seems like. LOL
That was a topic I started and as just said someone commented about it and said that. The same way they said "parents with money".
U can read about it if you forgot at to the topic I posted under Grand Illusion and tittled it:» Owning a big illusion, getting a stage show, realizing dreams <????>
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Apr 3, 2009 09:51AM)
I do have bills to pay. I do manage money. I find what you say offensive.

I can see that you want everything served to you. You want information, you need to help yourself. You are not always going to get the help you want and you need to realize that. You come on here phishing for secrets, saying you want to buy stuff cheaper than everyone else and insulting people.

I offered you help, like everyone else. You are upset that you are not getting what you want. You can not always have it your way.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 3, 2009 11:35AM)
A quote I love, from a wise teacher:

"I used to say, 'Things cost too much.' Then my teacher straightened me out on that by saying, 'The problem isn't that things cost too much. The problem is that you can't afford it.' That's when I finally understood that the problem wasn't 'it' - the problem was 'me.'" -- [url=http://www.jimrohn.com/]Jim Rohn[/url]
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 3, 2009 01:39PM)
Ha ha - nice quote. But still reality. Even if can't afford it is always the case that it costs too much since yeah can't afford it because don't have enough money for that and such but we all now in reality and specially this days hard to afford things and everything keeps going up and up in price except the pay (salaries).
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 3, 2009 01:59PM)
When you admit that can't afford it, it is about taking 100% responsibility for the situation. Instead of blaming others / your situation. It's 100% up to you, to find a way to get more money flowing into your life. Others do it, so can you. The key difference in implimentation is all about desire, and getting motivated to take action... that can make the difference between a "wish" and a "goal".

It's also about seeing value in other things. When you learn to see value in other products and services, it becomes easier for you to see value in your own services.

---------------------------------

Tough question, but to the point:

Since starting this thread, how many possible people have you contacted directly about your show (either in person, by phone, by email, or by mail)? What action have you taken to get more shows?

---------------------------------

More relevant quotes from Jim Rohn:

"If you don't like how things are, change it! You're not a tree." -- Jim Rohn

"The key factor that will determine your financial future is not the economy; the key factor is your philosophy." -- Jim Rohn

"Don’t wish it was easier; wish you were better. Don’t wish for less problems; wish for more skills. Don’t wish for less challenges; wish for more wisdom." -- Jim Rohn

"When you know what you want, and you want it bad enough, you will find a way to get it." -- Jim Rohn

"I remember saying to my mentor, 'If I had more money, I would have a better plan.' He quickly responded, 'I would suggest that if you had a better plan, you would have more money.' You see, it's not the amount that counts; it's the plan that counts." -- Jim Rohn

"Don't mistake movement for achievement. It's easy to get faked out by being busy. The question is: Busy doing what?" -- Jim Rohn
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 3, 2009 02:25PM)
Thanks for the other quotes. I sent you a PM.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 3, 2009 02:50PM)
Helpful thread:

[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=279518&forum=17]--> Magic Café thread titled... The "R" word: recession[/url]

(From The Little Darlings area.)

Some performers are doing fine, and some are struggling. And they live in the same areas. So, there must be something different between the two performers.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Apr 5, 2009 08:34AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-02 19:47, mrwiz wrote:

Speaking about all this I am trying also to find out what to send out in the mail like to businesses and other prospective clients to advertise letting them know about what I have to offer. Like what type of letter to put together, and/or brochure and stuff. No one so far that I have asked would tell me. Like I have asked other magicians for maybe send me out what they are sending out so I can have an idea/guide so I can make my own but nothing.

So then wondering how I can get that info and what to put together to send out and such.

Thanks again for your help and hear from you all soon.
[/quote]

Probably just from my own life experiences, but in my opinion asking for actual advertising material for "an idea/guide" crosses the line of propriety.

However, books abound (free in the library) to teach the serious student about the subject. Magazines abound (including magic ones) that display the creative thoughts of well-paid ad execs. TV discloses what a million dollars a minute buys. All good ideas.

As one who receives about 25 unsolicited mailings or phone calls a day (and 50 more by email) I can tell you that just sending out something is fairly worthless. The receiver has to have a reason to care, to read what you are trying to say. Permit me to give you an example:

In my business, we do mailings advertising our service. We only mail to people who have previously expressed an interest to us. These mailings are professionally done, including the important "call to action". Our average expected response to these mailings is 3%!

In my experience, the successful magicians I know of have at lease one common attribute- they are creative. "Creative" can make things out of nothing, like magic! Creative can outrun smarts, bypass the old and bring in the new, make do with what is, and more.

The good news is, most of us have creative lurking somewhere deep inside. Was it Edison who said it was 90% perspiration? That's the rub - it's not easy, not at all. But if Edison had not been creative, he would only have invented a larger candle.

I certainly hope some of this makes sense...

Jim
Message: Posted by: Poveglia (Apr 6, 2009 06:51PM)
[quote]

The local club auctions are a great source for cheap illusions. Some of the conventions have auctions as well. Recently, I saw dollhouses, mismades, and zig-zags for under $200. Its out there.
[/quote]

Wow! I wish I could find those deals!!!! I'd be on them like flies on....nm

Hey, um I know its presumptious and you probably don't know me well, but if you ever see a zig zag, mismade etc for $200 please for the love of God buy it and I will so pay you for it asap.

Scouts honor on that! I'll even sign a legally binding contract on that!

I've been so desperate, I was actually considering buying from Snap Illusions.....*sigh
Message: Posted by: M Sini (Apr 7, 2009 06:48AM)
[quote]
On 2009-03-28 20:46, Mad Jack wrote:
Well, there really is a lot of good advice on here! After 22 years doing large illusions on big stages all over the U.S. and Asia, I have learned 3 things.

1)Buy a sword basket as your first real illusion. This is advice that Johnathan Pendragon gave me as a kid and I am passing it on. It is the best illusion you can own as a beginning illusionist (more on this later). Other magicians that come to your show may not think so, but it is... Which brings me to number

2)Never care what other magicians think you your sword basket! (they are usually not the people paying your salary)

3) Make your own destiny. Meaning: Don't sit around waiting for the phone to ring. Don't (when you do get some illusions and a good working promo DVD) wait for agents and producers to give you your "big break". You are playing incredible odds and it probably won't happen. We now live in an age where you have to (for the most part) produce yourself if you want to be sure to "realize your dreams".

Now... About that sword basket. It is reletively small, inexpensive (an Abbott's runs around $400 and can be painted, put in a base and re-themed to look almost as good as an Owen's), and is easy to stage under ANY conditions. It is AMAZING to almost any audience and can't be figured out during set-up, tear-down, etc. Even if people come up after your show and look inside, they are just as amazed because it is just a basket! (Try having someone examine your origami after the show and see where that gets you.) It also will teach you (and your assistant) how to move well and interact well together in front of an audience. I just did my Chalet basket last night (Fri. 3-27-09) and from behind the curtain I heard people talking about it after the show. They had no idea how it was done. It never ceases to amaze me....LOL...

Just my random thoughts...

Mad Jack
[/quote]

Great advice from Mad Jack. I caught his show in NC and it was excellent.
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 7, 2009 11:12AM)
Poveglia:

If I come accross those illlusions for that price I will let you know.
Message: Posted by: Bradacal (Apr 11, 2009 11:51AM)
Honestly, there is some GREAT advice here, advice I wish I saw when I was 14/15 years old.

I guess my input would be not to be fooled by other young magicians who are your age or even slightly older, who have 'big' shows and say they are out touring etc etc; chances are they aren't and chances are that most of there props are either borrowed, rented or home built for when they actually do get to perform on the big stage. I remember when I was 15/16 yrs old, I thought for sure I was going to be 'the next big star' and that I was already a superstar in magic. I put together a show that played in 2 theatres, but truth be told, it wasn't very good at all. From there I decided to start from the bottom and work my way up; I never was given $$ by parents or a 'big break', all the props and illusions I have now, I earned myself and I wouldn't have it any other way. I did birthdays, private events and schools for the longest time. Then I was 20 and invested in my first illusion, and gradually bought more and built up a solid show all the while I was building presentation skills; now Im 26 and perform full-time since high school, a lot of which is in theatres and auditoriums but honestly the bulk is CORPORATE and even the occasional private party because I really enjoy it - I built up a good name in my area and went with it......you can have all the fancy illusions you want, but you need to have presence on stage and that will be something that doesn't come overnight, it develops in time, just like a good show.

With that said, do what you are good at - don't be influenced by other young magicians who come on here saying that they are 'this' or 'that', very few (if any) are actually doing what they are saying.

Good luck with everything. There is some GREAT advice in this thread, take it and use it wisely.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Apr 11, 2009 10:08PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-11 12:25, Athena Johnson wrote:
... that will teach you how to produce your own theater show with lights, music, staging, etc and how to do it on a shoestring budget.[/quote]

I think it's fine to sink your money (or in some cases your parent's money) into doing a one-off show, but let's be realistic about it. It's not really working professionally. It happens all the time here in LA. The venues for that are called "Ego Rooms" by the insiders as it's just a chance to invite your friends, have them pay for your show and video tape it to act like you're working. It doesn't prove anything except that you're willing to spend your own money to do a show. It might be a better option to try and develop a better act so that people will actually pay you to perform and earn the right to do a full show. We see shows every week here in town where someone is doing yet another "One Man (or Woman) Show" or assembling a "concert of dance" that ends up being amateurish and indulgent. Does it actually "run"? No, it's one show or maybe a few days depending on how much they can afford. If you're actually four-walling you're not doing it for ego but to make money. Many rooms are done like that in Vegas. You pay for the venue, promote it and make money if it's a good show. If it's not, you typically close owing a lot.

Lest you think I'm bagging on self-produced shows, I'm not. There have some amazing magicians that have done this that are exceptional. It just seems that many others are done more for ego than money. I've seen this type by some VERY well known names in magic that were dreadful and they lost a lot of money on it.

I've always thought that if you work and become good enough, people will hire you to do what you're good at. If it's a 7 minute act or a full evening show, they will hire you.

Better to spend the money on getting better, improving your product and creating a better package. It seems now that people just want to get themselves a video of their "big show", make posters, create a glossy promo package, then learn how to walk on stage.
Message: Posted by: Bradacal (Apr 11, 2009 11:00PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-11 23:08, WDI Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-11 12:25, Athena Johnson wrote:
... that will teach you how to produce your own theater show with lights, music, staging, etc and how to do it on a shoestring budget.[/quote]

I think it's fine to sink your money (or in some cases your parent's money) into doing a one-off show, but let's be realistic about it. It's not really working professionally. It happens all the time here in LA. The venues for that are called "Ego Rooms" by the insiders as it's just a chance to invite your friends, have them pay for your show and video tape it to act like you're working. It doesn't prove anything except that you're willing to spend your own money to do a show. It might be a better option to try and develop a better act so that people will actually pay you to perform and earn the right to do a full show. We see shows every week here in town where someone is doing yet another "One Man (or Woman) Show" or assembling a "concert of dance" that ends up being amateurish and indulgent. Does it actually "run"? No, it's one show or maybe a few days depending on how much they can afford. If you're actually four-walling you're not doing it for ego but to make money. Many rooms are done like that in Vegas. You pay for the venue, promote it and make money if it's a good show. If it's not, you typically close owing a lot.

Lest you think I'm bagging on self-produced shows, I'm not. There have some amazing magicians that have done this that are exceptional. It just seems that many others are done more for ego than money. I've seen this type by some VERY well known names in magic that were dreadful and they lost a lot of money on it.

I've always thought that if you work and become good enough, people will hire you to do what you're good at. If it's a 7 minute act or a full evening show, they will hire you.

Better to spend the money on getting better, improving your product and creating a better package. It seems now that people just want to get themselves a video of their "big show", make posters, create a glossy promo package, then learn how to walk on stage.
[/quote]

WOW! Well said WDI. So many people try to create the 'illusion' that they are working and have 'big show' by doing exactly what you said - 4 walling one show and then editing a promo to the extreme to make themselves look bigger and better than they are. The best way to actually getting work is - work at getting better. I know some people who are trying to do the exact same thing - start at the top, when it just doesn't work like that....and they truly believe it will, but 98% of the time it wont.


Just my .02c.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Apr 11, 2009 11:23PM)
Thanks MB... Actualy, I posted this before I read your message... (lol... I know, Once I get going it's hard to stop!) but I felt redundant as you had so many great points as well. I was VERY lucky to be around amazing professionals growing up so I saw the path to the top as one long road paved with years of hard work and discipline. It seems that the current trend is just trying to get to 10,000 hits on YouTube and hoping for a TV special.

Thanks again!

Ray
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 14, 2009 09:18AM)
_MB_: Thanks for the advice/input. Very true and good one. Appreciate it.
Feel free to contact me privately if you want to talk more.

Do you have a web site ? Where you located ?
Message: Posted by: mrwiz (Apr 14, 2009 09:21AM)
WDI Magic: Thanks for your feedback as well. Very true about many just performing and putting a show together just for the ego and not for the money and to brag and think they are all that. Have seen a few like that and such.
Thanks !
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Apr 14, 2009 09:33AM)
I wouldn't even say for the money or ego, but that you WANT to do a big show.
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Apr 15, 2009 09:34PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-14 10:33, Matthew W wrote:
I wouldn't even say for the money or ego, but that you WANT to do a big show.
[/quote]

That's a great point Matt... you have to seriously WANT to go through all of this aggravation to do Illusions... but wanting something is just not enough. I want to fly to the moon tomorrow, but it's probably not going to happen.

I think it's great to tell kids that you can do anything you want and be anyone you want if you try hard enough and believe in your dreams. lol... Ok... I'm an adult now. It's just not true. It's great to dream and want things but the reality is that we don't deserve everything we wish for. We have to earn things... earn them by work, experience, talent, dedication... etc. I know you've done this and we all earn what we eventually get (unless it's stolen which is another discussion!). I think we should put our attention on learning and doing more than just "wanting" something. I know that's how you got what you have.
Message: Posted by: CCPCris (Apr 15, 2009 09:44PM)
One key quesiton you must ask yourself is this. Do you want to do illusions for the ego side, and the attention it gets you, or for the love of the art, and what it gives your audince? A lot of illusions are very painstaingly difficult on the body to mantian and perform.

You have to do it for the love of the art, if not, your intrest in large illusions could fade in time.

If you are in it for the art, here is my advice. Start off building your own props. Some are really simple and very deceptive. Also as you grow in your intrest and in your abilities, you may find you enjoy building many of your own props and ideas. Granted some might have to be built by those with certian areas of expertise that you don't posses, but if you can work with wood, you can build many great props.

don't discount old illusions in Woodbury or Osborne plans. With a creative mind, and theatrical mentality, you can revamp and re routine many illssions, to become your own.
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Apr 15, 2009 11:41PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-15 22:34, WDI Magic wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-14 10:33, Matthew W wrote:
I wouldn't even say for the money or ego, but that you WANT to do a big show.
[/quote]

That's a great point Matt... you have to seriously WANT to go through all of this aggravation to do Illusions... but wanting something is just not enough. I want to fly to the moon tomorrow, but it's probably not going to happen.

I think it's great to tell kids that you can do anything you want and be anyone you want if you try hard enough and believe in your dreams. lol... Ok... I'm an adult now. It's just not true. It's great to dream and want things but the reality is that we don't deserve everything we wish for. We have to earn things... earn them by work, experience, talent, dedication... etc. I know you've done this and we all earn what we eventually get (unless it's stolen which is another discussion!). I think we should put our attention on learning and doing more than just "wanting" something. I know that's how you got what you have.
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I could not agree with you more.

You can not simply wait for something to happen. You will be extremely disappointed.

Realizing dreams, as in the threads title, is just that. You love dreams and what happens in them, but when you wake up, you never have what you were dreaming about. Unless you were dreaming about something that already happened, it just never happens like that.

The best thing anyone can do is to work towards what they want and where they want to be.