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Topic: Best Childrens levitation in the living room parties?
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 11, 2009 03:18PM)
I know there are two most used but wondering what you think is the best childrens levitation for birthday parties in the living room?

Also which manufactor?
Message: Posted by: Matthew W (Apr 11, 2009 06:19PM)
The Chair Suspension made by Jim Sommers is going to be brought up a lot here, I think.

It is well made and can be done surrounded. Can't beat that.
Message: Posted by: ku7uk3 (Apr 11, 2009 06:21PM)
The Balducci Levitation could step in the ring with the chair suspension. I know which one I'm putting my money on!
Message: Posted by: magicbob116 (Apr 11, 2009 07:14PM)
If you're meaning to levitate (let's expand our definition to include suspend) a child volunteer, then Chair Suspension and Flying Carpet are the two primary choices. More advanced methods are generally not practical to haul into someone's living room and set up for a bithday party.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 11, 2009 07:16PM)
Chair suspension or magic carpet seem to be the only two options usually mentioned... I own the chair suspension. If the weight is NOT balanced right they could fall off... I had a 10 year old girl on the chair suspension in aliving room and thought she was gonna fall over... (if you own it you may understand what I am talking about)

I just wondered if there are better builders than others on the chair suspension and or carpet and was looking for other options than these two effects as well for livingroom birthday parties..
Message: Posted by: magicbob116 (Apr 11, 2009 07:30PM)
Any minute now Kyle Peron will probably chime in. He is one of our resident experts on the chair suspension. You should get his e-book on the chair suspension which goes into great detail on how to perform it safely.

But the bottom line is... you can't perform it safely if you don't have a reliable, high-quality version. At a minimum the MAK version, but the Sommers/Klamm model or the more expensive "European" Chair Suspension are considered by most to be a better choice.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 11, 2009 10:15PM)
Thanks Bob for the kind words about my ebook. I greatly appreciate it.

I own a Sommer's chair suspension and probably perform this illusion more times then any other effect I own. I believe so strongly in it that I use it every chance I get. Let me try and give some honest information and try and answer some questions and concerns people may have.

Benefits:
- You can piratically perform this effect totally surrounded without anyone catching on to the workings.

- You can perform this in any lighting condition and even outdoors.

- It packs down flat and makes for easy carry and travel.

- It weighs less than a lot of the suspensions like a flying carpet.

- It sets up very fast and breaks down in literally seconds - in fact you can even set it up during the show if you had to.

- Floating of the b-day child is an excellent selling point to any parent.

Disadvantages:

- The board is long so you may have to have room in your vehicle to account for this and the chairs when folded up.

- It will take you a trip or two to bring it in from your vehicle to the show.

- You must be careful with getting a child who does not exceed 90lbs. It says it can handle 150 but I do not go over 90 to be always on the safe side.

Other Notes:

- I have never had a child sit up during the effect in the hundreds of times performing this. I think it is because of the way in which I perform and present it. I make the child feel comfortable first through my talking with them in the beginning of the routine.

- I make it easy for them to get on it by using a step stool in front. This allows for them to step up and sit right down on the board.

- I ALWAYS tell the child what I am going to do before I do it. This eases their minds and gets them to know I am going to have to touch them in order to help them up or move them into place. At this day and age I ALWAYS ask if it is OK if I help them up. I get their permission to do so, so I earn their trust. It is also a way for me to tell if the child is scared or is excited about doing the effect. In all the years of doing this, I usually can pick the perfect helper.

- The child has no idea of the workings of the trick and sees nothing at all. That is what is so strong about this. As long as they follow your directions to 1) not move 2) keep their eyes closed throughout the illusion and 3) use their imagination, you will not have a problem at all.

- I also take a digital picture at the exact moment the child is suspended on the chair. This makes for a great souvenir from the show for the child to keep and show around.

- The routine can last anywhere from a minute up to six minutes or more depending upon how you routine it for your show. Personally I use it as the ending for my b-day shows as it is just that strong and it makes the b-day child feel like a star.

- I have never built one as it seems just way too hard to do the welding needed and the modifications to the folding chairs. I think by the time you went out to spend the money on materials, etc., it would be cheaper just to buy it. Besides a few good paying gigs pay for the entire thing.

I once thought people would see the gimmick, but they really do not. The reason for this is because of the way I handle it in several manners:

1) I angle it so the back chair is slightly further back towards me than the audience. This keeps the chair not dead on but allows for a clear view of the suspension when it takes place.

2) If you wrap the cloth properly, the cloth covers the gimmick that connects to the main chair. This cloth covers it completely.

3) The girl or boy that is on there I position properly, so that their shoulder blades are farthest up on the board towards the chair. This is proper placement of the weight, and it also allows for them to simply lay their heads back and close there eyes. This does two things as well: 1) the head itself covers the gimmick and the position prevents them from moving easily or prematurely.

I do this at every single birthday party, and I have never ever had anyone even notice anything at all. It really is that deceptive even up close. I think pratically because of the above reasons in my presentation of it.

With mine, I can remove the first chair and the board will remain attached to the bottom of the child. I then remove the final board and the loose wrapping of the cloth really indeed looks as if the child is totally floating. The effect is so great that it always gets the adults and kids alike going.. oh wow woah.. look at that.

It takes time to really understand this illusion, so I really say to PLEASE practice and rehearse this a lot before ever doing it to a volunteer. There are ways in my routine, and the way it is structured that ensures the child feels comfortable and safe and wants to perform it. This is critical for me, and I only learned this from constant practice and revamping the routine I now use.

My 2 cents worth.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (Apr 11, 2009 10:45PM)
Kyle and kelly have hit the nail on the head. I cnat say enough about the power fo this effect. This is name amker for you if you choose to use it.
Mike
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 11, 2009 10:48PM)
Thanks so much Mike. Kelly andI love doing this illusion and we probably perform more then any other we own. It is often overlooked, but it plays so well in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: BudTCB (Apr 12, 2009 12:10PM)
Kyle, Thank you so much! I just bought a chair suspension 2 weeks ago. I am excited about doing it, I'm working on a routine for it now,... but am kind of drawing a blank. I think I would like to play music while doing the illusion.. (not sure what song to use).. but that's not a big issue,.. most anything would work... I'm more concerned about a nice routine for it. I Think I would always want to use a little girl for this and make her into a princess and then have her levitate.. but again,.. I'm not really sure... any ideas?? Thank you.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 12, 2009 01:08PM)
You are most welcome. I play music during my routine as background music. It is important for me to talk through the routine at various parts so that the helper remains calm hearing my voice and trust is built between them and I.

I try and use a girl and the main reason is that their hair and head will cover the hook up even better. This allows me to perform the illusion surrounded if I need to.

I have many ideas but I do not like giving routines out to folks. Nothing personal. It is just I am a strong believer in having magicians use the illusion and start to develop a routine that works for them the best and that fits their own style. I can certainly help you with that if you would like. my pleasure to.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 12, 2009 03:24PM)
Hi Kyle,

I own an older used MAK version.. Two black folding chairs... Anyways.. What comes in you Chair Suspension Ebook?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 12, 2009 04:50PM)
Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the question and congrats on your MAK model chair suspension. Let me try and answer your question for you best I can. My pleasure to do so.

This 15 page e-book is jammed full of information, tips on presentation, safety, routine ideas as well as step by step coverage of the best way to perform this illusion. This is one of the only books in the history of magic devoted solely to helpful information on the performance of this classic illusion.

Find out how to add this illusion to any show and to add value to your client in the process. This illusion has been a classic of magic and can add tremendous value to your show at a fraction of the cost of some of the larger illusions out on the market today. It can be set up quickly and transported with ease but always amazes audiences of all ages.

What You Get

After countless efforts to try and locate information on this illusion, I realized that the information just did not exist or was very scarce at best. For this reason I spent countless hours compiling information covered in this e-book.

Find out topics such as:

• - Why Perform the chair suspension
• - The basic effect of the illusion
• - What to look for when you are purchasing
• - Chair Suspension vs. Flying carpet
• - Understanding the dangers of the illusion
• - The routine and psychology of performance
• - Safety tips and check list
• - Items to discuss with a client
• - Proper positioning
• - Child vs adult helper
• - How to perform completely surrounded
• - Plus a golden secret on how you can add immediate increased value to your show that will make any child the star of the show and you a hit with the client.

I hope this answers some questions for you. Please let me know if I can be of further help. my pleasure.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: B Hackler (Apr 12, 2009 05:56PM)
I have kyle e-book on the chair suspension and learned a lot of things from it. I highly recommend it.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 12, 2009 05:59PM)
Thanks so much for the kind words. Much appreicate it. I have a brand new book coming out I am very excited about. It should be of great value to any children's or family style performer. I just got done editing it today and having it proofread now. Hope to be able to fully release it by next week.

Thanks again and if anyone has any questions, simply let me know. Always willing to help.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Bradley Roberts (Apr 12, 2009 10:34PM)
I just got the chair suspension from Aye Jay. The next thing I got was Kyle's ebook. Kyle great job and tips on how to handle it. I have done it in 4 of my shows now and it went great. Thanks Kyle for the spot on information!

Cheers,
B-Rad
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 13, 2009 06:23AM)
Thanks Brad. I am glad my notes and information were of help to you in setting up and presenting the illusion. My pleasure. =)

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 22, 2009 12:04PM)
Ok Kyle,

I just bought your E-book this may be my close for all my kids routines now... I will have to read your book and shake the dust off my Mak Chair Suspension in my garage. Does anyone own Yogana Chair Levitation?
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Apr 22, 2009 02:33PM)
My favourite levitation for kid's partys is Snowstorm in China.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 22, 2009 03:17PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-22 15:33, magicgeorge wrote:
My favourite levitation for kid's partys is Snowstorm in China.
[/quote]

You kidding right? I don't think this qualifies for a "levitation" I am also not sure how that would play out in a small living room..
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Apr 22, 2009 03:19PM)
[quote]
I don't think this qualifies for a "levitation" I am also not sure how that would play out in a small living room..
[/quote]

I think you'll find it is a levitation. Perform it in any small living room and watch the booker hit the roof.

Thank you very much. I'm here all week.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Apr 22, 2009 05:29PM)
LOL!

- Donald
Message: Posted by: magicbob116 (Apr 22, 2009 06:27PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-22 16:19, magicgeorge wrote:
[quote]
I don't think this qualifies for a "levitation" I am also not sure how that would play out in a small living room..
[/quote]

I think you'll find it is a levitation. Perform it in any small living room and watch the booker hit the roof.

Thank you very much. I'm here all week.
[/quote]

You set the hook and reeled 'em in! :lol:
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Apr 22, 2009 06:54PM)
Heh, yeah, I'm so glad Kevin replied to that or I would've just been left there looking like an eejit. :)
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Apr 22, 2009 08:26PM)
No one has mentioned Nicholas Einhorn's In Flight, a great levitation for parties. Price-wise it is not much more expensive than a good chair levitation. The chair levitation beats the flying carpet hands down - and is very portable.
Loved magicgeorge's contribution.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 24, 2009 10:15PM)
Kevinr: Thanks for the ebook purchase. I am sure you will find it of big help to you. As you work with the illusion, let me know. I would behappy to assist with any questions.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Apr 26, 2009 09:26PM)
As far as chair suspensions go, I'm really happy with the European Suspension from Hocus-Pocus. It's darn sturdy. Having a child fall off shouldn't be an issue if you have an assistant (or parent, but probably better to have a trained assistant) up at their shoulders. I use the chairs earlier in the show to seat two volunteers during at least one trick, just to get the audience used to seeing them as normal chairs.

Oh, and another vote for Kyle's e-book. It's a very worthwhile resource from a magician who has performed the effect countless times in different settings. He has some valuable safety tips, among other nuggets.
Message: Posted by: John Long (Apr 27, 2009 11:27AM)
Not in the same category, but has anyone tried Jolly Roger's Cloth of invisibility?
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 28, 2009 03:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-22 21:26, TonyB2009 wrote:
No one has mentioned Nicholas Einhorn's In Flight, a great levitation for parties. Price-wise it is not much more expensive than a good chair levitation. The chair levitation beats the flying carpet hands down - and is very portable.
Loved magicgeorge's contribution.
[/quote]

Not familar with this one do you have a link?

Posted: Apr 28, 2009 4:06pm
Chair Suspension and Flying Carpet...

man if someone could think outside the box and come up with something new to compete with these two..

Maybe Wolf Magic will.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 28, 2009 03:11PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-28 16:05, Kevinr wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-04-22 21:26, TonyB2009 wrote:
No one has mentioned Nicholas Einhorn's In Flight, a great levitation for parties. Price-wise it is not much more expensive than a good chair levitation. The chair levitation beats the flying carpet hands down - and is very portable.
Loved magicgeorge's contribution.
[/quote]

Not familar with this one do you have a link?
[/quote]


I guess its mentioned here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=6977&forum=6&7
Message: Posted by: magicgeorge (Apr 28, 2009 09:56PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-27 12:27, John Long wrote:
Not in the same category, but has anyone tried Jolly Roger's Cloth of invisibility?
[/quote]
It's a nice trick and can be sold as a levitation but in Roger's presentation is a vanish.
Message: Posted by: BrianJ (Apr 28, 2009 10:23PM)
This is an interesting and timely thread. I was researching this exact topic recently for a birthday party for the little darlings I performed at.
I wanted to find a parlor levitation because it's asked for sometimes, but I didn't find anything that I liked.
So I considered the chair suspension instead. There was a Sommers on ebay that I almost bought. At about the same time, I saw a youtube video of some guy who had the participant fall right off - it was ugly. It had an impression on me, and I decided to pass. Kyle's ebook sounds like a solid investment if I decide to commit.

I'm going to revisit this though. I would prefer a levitation over a suspension. I acknowledge that what I think the kids like and what they really like are two different things. I love this aspect of performing for kids. So I want to first ask - for those of you doing the suspension - how well is it going over? How about for a levitation? anyone doing both that can shed light on which plays better?

Unfortunately, the Sommers suspension sold on Ebay. So that is gone. And the European Chair Suspension is expensive...

Thanks for any insights,
Brian
Message: Posted by: ya4davecox (Apr 29, 2009 03:19AM)
I've got to go counter to the flow, here, and say, if you're choosing a suspension, I think the Flying Carpet beats the Chair Suspension.

I should start by saying that I don't DO the regular chair suspension. I have, however, been a very supportive audience member in many, many shows where it is performed. I have heard, many, many times, "It was pretty cool the way he got that board to attach to the chair, huh? Some kind of hook, I guess." And that's on the BEST side. Those of a less mechanical bent often say, "Why didn't he pull out the other chair?"

The Flying Carpet, however, I HAVE done, hundreds of times as a youth, and it went over very well. If you attach the gimmick slant wise, you get to see clear under the carpet. If you modify the screen, it can be done surrounded. If you don't use the cheap, flimsy sword-like things, it doesn't look cheap and flimsy.

Of course, I don't know what the appreciative audiences members were saying after my youthful shows...
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 29, 2009 10:53AM)
To each their own on levitations!

I have personally used both the chair suspension and the flying carpet numerous times and I will confess that the flying carpet actually gets a better response than the chairs IF DONE PROPERLY. It took me years to come to this conclusion!

I know that Kyle and many others love the chair suspension and that is great for them. For me however, the chairs just go over my comfort zone. I am well aware of the safety issues, etc. etc. etc. that come with the performing this illusion. However, I've always had that "but what if" feeling about it. What if the kid did fall off for some reason? What if they decided to freak out during the trick? What if???? You get the idea!

Years ago I started off with a flying carpet and hated it at first. In my opinion it was a really bad trick that was easily figured out. I then went to a chair suspension and got a much better response. However, that WHAT IF feeling came back. I have heard of 2 performers that have had kids fall off of the chair suspension. Don't know what happened to make the child fall but the fact is they fell during the show. LAWSUIT! Think about that for a minute.....

Kids will be kids! You can go through all of the safety stuff you want BUT if the kid freaks out, won't cooperate, etc. you've got a problem!

Kyle loves the chair suspension but he also has his wife there which is SUPER SMART. The chances of a child falling during his show are almost non-exsistant.

Recently, I even purchased another chair suspension that was suppose to made even better with more safety features in place. I bought it with the understanding that if I did not like it, I had someone else who was willing to but it from me. I performed it about 20 times and got a good response each time. However, I had a boy at a birthday party on it and he freaked out on me. At this point he is already covered up with the blanked (whatever it is called) and he decided to grab the sides of the board. Needless to say, it feaked me out as well and I pulled it out of the show right away and promised myself that I would NEVER EVER perform a chair suspension ever again.

Now, I know and expect that many people will most likely come on here and give me their comments about how I did something wrong. Please don't bother! The fact is that I have tried the chair suspension and just don't feel comfortable doing it. I've got a dear friend of mine that has used it for years and years and swears by it. I think that is great! I am just saying that it is not meant for me.

I perform the flying carpet and have perfected a hilarious routine with a tear-jerking story that makes moms cry complete with music and all. I don't use swords and don't spin the child either. The gimmick is off to the side and truly looks like the child is floating. The flying carpet actually gets a great response if performed slowly and correctly. It relies on a VERY STRONG presentation to really make it go over great. It took me some time to perfect this routine but it had know become such a strong part of my shows that I just can't see me not ever doing it.

FYI- I had a fellow performed come watch one of my school shows a couple of days ago and his words were, "I kept wondering how the flying carpet was going to play to the audience but it was really great. In fact is was powerful and my favorite part of the show!" This came from a well know kid show performer!

So....do whichever levitation you are comfortable with. Just remember that presentation and the safety of the child is the most important part.

Last, I don't like the idea of a child having to lay down on a long board. With the carpet, they sit indian style and don't feel anything.
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Apr 29, 2009 11:19AM)
I am planning to use my barstool levitation to levitate a child sitting indian style. I will use a "magic cloth / carpet" to cover his/her knees to hide the gimmick. I'm not yet sure if this will work well. Just planning.
On the other hand, maybe, I could use the mother instead just to play safe. She could just cross her legs and I put a small cloth on them.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Apr 29, 2009 12:31PM)
Todd, I absolutely agee with you about the Flying Carpet v Chair Suspension. For years I've favoured the Flying Carpet, even though it's a pig to transport and set up. The Carpet illusion is MUCH stronger, when presented properly - why? Because the kid is seen to FLOAT, SPIN AND MOVE THROUGH THE AIR, whereas the Chair Suspension is more of a "mental" illusion, as the "floatee" is always supported by a chair at one end.
Of course, there is the fancy version where both chairs can be removed, but I'm not aware of such a version that could be performed surrounded. One such version allows the floatee to float all the way around the performer, a full 360 degrees. I wonder if it would be possible to routine that version, so that you could be surrounded? I'm thinking a prop/accessory of some kind to cover the workings initially, and then ones own costume to take over the "cover up". Any thoughts?
Potty
Message: Posted by: mr shiney (Apr 29, 2009 01:45PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-29 12:19, Lou Hilario wrote:
I am planning to use my barstool levitation to levitate a child sitting indian style. I will use a "magic cloth / carpet" to cover his/her knees to hide the gimmick. I'm not yet sure if this will work well. Just planning.
On the other hand, maybe, I could use the mother instead just to play safe. She could just cross her legs and I put a small cloth on them.
[/quote]
my I ask were did you get your barstool from?
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 29, 2009 02:03PM)
PP: I once thought that the chair suspension was the best overall illusion for floating someone. There is no doubt that it does get a huge reaction but I have had kids and adults say, "take out the other chair!" And then there is the WHAT IF factor that I mentioned earler.

If a kid were to fall and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, your complete career could come falling down as well. Just think of what people would say about your show, even if it was not your fault.

I had a little girl who was 5 years old on the carpet last weekend. She cried toward the end and nothing even happened to make her cry. She was simply overwhelmed. I can only imagine what would have happended if she would have been on the chair suspension!

As I mentioned before, I have used both. It took me awhile to perfect a great routine for the carpet which is why I went back and forth between the carpet and the chairs. In the end, I chose the flying carpet to be the best illusion for me. It can be made / modified to break down and simply snap together which is what I am currently using. Mine fits into a suitcase on wheels. Transporting it is now super easy! I use music and a very funny routine / story during my presentation. I get a great reaction everytime I do it- no joke.

Most people (myself included at one time) think that the flying carpet is a stupid trick. It is if you buy one and don't change the gimmick, the overall look, etc. The carpet takes a VERY strong presentation to pull it off the right way and make the audience beleive that the child is floating. I for one have NEVER had anyone tell me that they were able to figure out how it works. They might but they don't say so to me.

I also think that the carpet is much more user friendly. The chair suspension is long and takes up a lot of room in someones house. The carpet is much smaller! You can any age child on the carpet without havng to worry about a thing.

Again, it all comes down to preference.
Message: Posted by: BrianJ (Apr 29, 2009 02:53PM)
Todd75,
Very helpful insights, which for me ring true as well.

Which manufacturer is recommended for the flying carpet? also, you say you had to change the gimmick - was it difficult to do? can you pm me with the details?

Thanks,
Brian
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 29, 2009 03:09PM)
Brian: thanks!

As far as changing the gimmick, I guess I should have said "making it to break down!"

I took the gimmick to a machine shop and had them make me an all new gimmick which is 3 times as strong as the original one that came with the illusion. The while thing can be put together in literally seconds with no bolts to screw into place, etc. It simply snaps together!

I have plans to start having these made from scratch with much better materials than what is currently being offered by magic dealers. Currently you can get a MAK magic one for about $399.00 or so and the Daytona magic one goes for around $599.00 or so I think.

The materials are not expensive at all. The time it takes to machine it is not all that labor intensive either. I am hoping to be able to sell these complete with my routine, performance rights and music for around $450.00 or so!
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 29, 2009 03:50PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-29 13:31, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Of course, there is the fancy version where both chairs can be removed, but I'm not aware of such a version that could be performed surrounded. One such version allows the floatee to float all the way around the performer, a full 360 degrees. I wonder if it would be possible to routine that version, so that you could be surrounded? I'm thinking a prop/accessory of some kind to cover the workings initially, and then ones own costume to take over the "cover up". Any thoughts?
Potty
[/quote]

This post starting to get some good ideas Potty!!!

Which one are you talking about in the above quote?

[quote]
On 2009-04-29 16:09, todd75 wrote:
Brian: thanks!

As far as changing the gimmick, I guess I should have said "making it to break down!"

I took the gimmick to a machine shop and had them make me an all new gimmick which is 3 times as strong as the original one that came with the illusion. The while thing can be put together in literally seconds with no bolts to screw into place, etc. It simply snaps together!

I have plans to start having these made from scratch with much better materials than what is currently being offered by magic dealers. Currently you can get a MAK magic one for about $399.00 or so and the Daytona magic one goes for around $599.00 or so I think.

The materials are not expensive at all. The time it takes to machine it is not all that labor intensive either. I am hoping to be able to sell these complete with my routine, performance rights and music for around $450.00 or so!
[/quote]

Interesting.. Let us know... hey team up with Wolf Magic and come up with an insane look to it!
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 29, 2009 05:55PM)
I'll post some pictures of the newest flying carpet that I just got finished making. It's a thing of beauty!
Message: Posted by: bhappie (Apr 29, 2009 09:23PM)
For the life of me I can not remember who gave me this idea, but a NJ magician uses the flying carpet and they have a tux jacket sitting on the table and the kid puts it on as they sit on the table. This makes a nice picture. The tails are sewn around the gimmick and hang down so the screen can be completely removed. Makes a great pic and looks very cool. You can not spin it if you do this though.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 10:33AM)
My version kills.....very funny and even a tear kerking moment for some.

I am in the planning stages of having some flying carpets made which will break down and fit into a suitcase on wheels. Will come complete with my audience tested routine and music.

PM if you are interested. I've got a waiting list going!
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 30, 2009 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-29 22:23, bhappie wrote:
For the life of me I can not remember who gave me this idea, but a NJ magician uses the flying carpet and they have a tux jacket sitting on the table and the kid puts it on as they sit on the table. This makes a nice picture. The tails are sewn around the gimmick and hang down so the screen can be completely removed. Makes a great pic and looks very cool. You can not spin it if you do this though.
[/quote]

I like the idea of getting rid of the screen.. Nice way to make it seem logical to do that!
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Apr 30, 2009 02:12PM)
You can also use a backdrop to hide the gimmick, again removing the need for the screen. I simply remove the screen a few minutes BEFORE the illusion is presented, and remove my puppet from the screen. To the audience, the screen is the "box" that my puppet lives in, and they don't associate the screen with the table illusion.
I can't remember where I saw the Chair Suspension where both chairs are removed, but I think it was sold by Douglas Tilford, who has recently retired, so this particular model may no longer be available. However, it's evidently a modified version of the flying carpet - the gimmick is much larger and a different shape, but essentially the same.
If I can find a link to this version, I'll put it up on this thread.
Potty :)
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 02:14PM)
I orginially tried to make the appearance that the screen was removed all the way by adding another 6 inches to the back of the gimmick. This created a huge "sag" when a child sit on it.

Again, the flying carpet has the possibilities to be a huge deal in any show IF it is performed correctly and has a STRONG presentation to it. I've seen many performers do the trick with very little or no reaction at all from the audience. There are MANY things wrong with the flying carpet if you get one "as is" and stick it in your show.

I am trying to address all of these issues and come up with a great look. Combined with a killer presentation that is both funny and moving at the same time, I think I've got a real winner. The music that I use in my show also makes it go over great. This is a solid 5-6 minutes in my show and gets a awesome review everytime I do it.....even for older kids.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 30, 2009 03:15PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-30 15:14, todd75 wrote:
I orginially tried to make the appearance that the screen was removed all the way by adding another 6 inches to the back of the gimmick. This created a huge "sag" when a child sit on it.

Again, the flying carpet has the possibilities to be a huge deal in any show IF it is performed correctly and has a STRONG presentation to it. I've seen many performers do the trick with very little or no reaction at all from the audience. There are MANY things wrong with the flying carpet if you get one "as is" and stick it in your show.

I am trying to address all of these issues and come up with a great look. Combined with a killer presentation that is both funny and moving at the same time, I think I've got a real winner. The music that I use in my show also makes it go over great. This is a solid 5-6 minutes in my show and gets a awesome review everytime I do it.....even for older kids.
[/quote]

any pictures?
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 03:53PM)
I am working on getting some pictures in the next day or so.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 30, 2009 04:07PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-30 15:12, Potty the Pirate wrote:
saw the Chair Suspension where both chairs are removed, but I think it was sold by Douglas Tilford, who has recently retired, so this particular model may no longer be available. However, it's evidently a modified version of the flying carpet - the gimmick is much larger and a different shape, but essentially the same.
If I can find a link to this version, I'll put it up on this thread.
Potty :)
[/quote]

Would love to see this! Would take away where kids say take the other chair away too!
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Apr 30, 2009 04:28PM)
Here is a link to Nicholas Einhorn's In Flight, which beats the hell out of the chair suspension and the flying carpet in my opinion. http://www.einhorn.co.uk/?q=node/32
The first time I saw it I was stunned. Paul Daniels uses this, as does top children's entertainer Dave Allen.
I don't have it myself. I use the chair suspension.
Message: Posted by: shpf100 (Apr 30, 2009 05:00PM)
I do not use In Flight but have seen a demo video and it looks nice, but I think the chair suspension and flying carpet beat it for children's shows for a couple reasons-photo op and the audience participation. How cool is it to be able to say I can cause your child to float at their b-day party-that also makes them great up-sells
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 30, 2009 05:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-30 17:28, TonyB2009 wrote:
Here is a link to Nicholas Einhorn's In Flight, which beats the hell out of the chair suspension and the flying carpet in my opinion. http://www.einhorn.co.uk/?q=node/32
The first time I saw it I was stunned. Paul Daniels uses this, as does top children's entertainer Dave Allen.
I don't have it myself. I use the chair suspension.
[/quote]

I have not heard good reviews on this one...

Would love to see the chair suspension with both chairs being moved..
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 05:17PM)
The problem I see with IN FLIGHT is that it is a self-levitation....not a child / audience member levitation.
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Apr 30, 2009 05:20PM)
This is a GREAT link full of FREE information on the chair suspension WOW check it out!!

http://magicmystery.co.uk/Scripts/Chair.Suspension.Presentation.Ideas.pdf

This one looks liek the best one on the market!

http://illusionartistry.com/chair.html
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 05:39PM)
I've seen this vidoe many times before and Al did it as a joke! You have to know his personality.....he is super funny!

I have nothing against other levitations like Jolly Roger's COI, In Flight, etc. I just like being able to include a child in my presentation...that's all.

The Chair Suspension is used by 100's maybe even 1000's of magicians worldwide. Very few people use a flying carpet which means your chances of hearing someone say, "I've seen this one before" are pretty limited. I've never had anyone say that to me. I did however have several people tell me they knew what was going to happen with the chair suspension. And then there is the "remove the other chair" saying that seems to becoming pretty popular.

I had a discussion today with a dear friend of mine who has been in magic for longer than I've been alive. He told me that he could never understand why anyone would take the chance of performing a chair suspension. He was always afraid that a child will fall and he would be sued. I explained that I performed a c.s. many times and always wondered "what if"
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 30, 2009 06:15PM)
Hi all,

Great discussion here and I thank everyone for their thoughts. there is great information and thought being shared and that is what makes the Café a great place indeed.

Todd is right in that we must all remember that one over the other is simply a matter of personal preference. One is not always better then the other. It simply is more of which illusion works better for you, the way you work and the venues you perform in.

Each illusion has its strengths and weaknesses and you must decide from these which will work for the show you perform and designed. However there are a few items I want to mention just for people to be clear about and to think about as we go on with this discussion.

- Please keep in mind that the flying carpet is more thought of as a levitation. That being nothing supporting someone in thin air. The Chair Suspension is not a levitation but a suspension. Both are vastly different concepts and should be remebered as so. One is a levitation and the other a suspension.

- Either illusion you must consider safety at all times. You can not just assume that if you are doing the flying carpet that you can forget safety issues. Safety must be thought of at all times ANY TIME you are using a child on any prop or illusion. That is just a given.

- Any child at any time can get scared. A child getting scared can happen on the Flying carpet just as easily as on the chairs or any illusion you may do with a child. The key is to learn to see the warning signs of a child. if you take either illusion slowly and build trust in the child and yourself, you can usually see and feel how a child will react long before you place them. If at any time you feel or sense a child may not work, DO NOT MOVE FORWARD. You thank the child for being brave and helping you and you get another older child to help you. You can then use the child who was afraid and empower them by having them become the magician that makes the other child float or suspend.

- If you do the Chair suspension and routine it correctly you should never have a child shouting out "remove the other chair." in over hundreds and hundreds of performances of the illusion I have mnever had even one child say that. This is simply due to both how I perform it and my routining of it. Just something to keep in mind.

Just some things to think about. in all, both are great illusions. Both can and will serve you very well and both need YOU to study them and do your homework before venturing out performing them. The choice of which to get is up to you the performer.

Hope this helps.

kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Apr 30, 2009 06:52PM)
Right on Kyle!

Each are great effects....it just depends upon what the performer is comfortable with. I've tried both and the flying carpet is what works for me. As you mentioned, no-one will ever ask any questions or make comments IF YOU PERFORM IT THE RIGHT WAY.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 30, 2009 07:02PM)
Thanks Todd. =) Exacttly correct. Both illusions are wonderful and if you do them the right way, and you work with them, either can be a wonderful addition to your show. =)

Kyle
Message: Posted by: feivel (Apr 30, 2009 07:39PM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-11 19:19, Matthew W wrote:
The Chair Suspension made by Jim Sommers is going to be brought up a lot here, I think.

It is well made and can be done surrounded. Can't beat that.
[/quote]

I am the proud new owner of a Sommers chair set. What a great effect! I've read the instructions and watched numerous videos online, but I can't figure out what holds the dummy board (the wooden board that you remove) up. As soon as I remove the chair, the board falls out from beneath the cloth. Is there some place to attach it, or some groove to catch, so it stays up until you pull on it?

Please help!
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Apr 30, 2009 08:09PM)
Feivel: PM me as I would be happy to assist you with it.I own a Sommer'smodel as well as seen many differnt modelsover the years. I would be happy to assist you on it. I also wrote an ebook all about this illusion and it's proper handling. That may also come in handy for you as well.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Powermagic (May 1, 2009 01:01AM)
Anyone have a link to the in-flight?
Message: Posted by: ya4davecox (May 1, 2009 01:24AM)
Removing both chairs -

Walter Zaney Blaney's "Ladder Suspension" and his "Suspension 3001" both allow the removal of both supports, as does the very, very rare Owen's Chair Suspension.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 06:27AM)
Right but keep in mind that by definition these are not in the realm of what we call and refer to as a chair suspension illusion. These are also way more pricey in cost. Th beauty of the chair suspension (and similarly the flying carpet) is that these are illusions that a family-style entertaioner can purchase on a limited budget. It is a great illusion that can be performed at a birthday party event, be done solo and not break your bank doing so.

Also, if performed correctly and performed with a proper routine, there should never be a time where the audience would want you ro remnove the other chair. The problem and reaosn this happens to some folks is simply the misunderstanding of how to do the illusion porperly and the fact that the routine lacks in many ways.

Too many magicians get the chair suspension illusion (or flying carpet) and put it into the show the very next day. no routining, no practice and certainly no full understanding of how it works and safety tips of handling. They also rush it so much that the kid gets nervous simply because the magician tends to "forget" who they are.

if you are doing these illusuions, or any illusion with kids, take the time to step back, read, learn and really study the illusion before you use it. Really make sure you understand how to properly place a child on it and develop a routine that builds trust and has entertainment value.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 1, 2009 09:12AM)
You tell em' Kyle!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 09:20AM)
Lol Thanks Todd. I try to. Between you and I we can tag team and lecture on both illusions. hmmmmm lol

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (May 1, 2009 10:45AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-01 02:24, ya4davecox wrote:
Removing both chairs -

Walter Zaney Blaney's "Ladder Suspension" and his "Suspension 3001" both allow the removal of both supports, as does the very, very rare Owen's Chair Suspension.
[/quote]

Yes but doing this in a living room with kids? Not sure how that would work at a birthday party..
Message: Posted by: akolodner (May 1, 2009 11:22AM)
[quote

Also, if performed correctly and performed with a proper routine, there should never be a time where the audience would want you ro remnove the other chair. The problem


Kyle,
Could you share what specifically in your routine keeps the children from shouting take out the other chair?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 12:00PM)
Hi Arnie,

I w3ould love to go into detail on this. The problem is that there is just so much I do that allows for the maximum entertainment value of the illusion and makes sure the audience and kids react the way I want them to react. This question alone was one of the main reasons I wrote my ebook. I kept getting asked how I do it and what steps I go through to ensure that I get the reactions I seek. What started as an answer to a friend asking he same question, ended up in a 16 page ebook that covers this exact topic in detail.

Everything in the book is centered around answering your question but also going into the psychology of the illusion, safety tips and techniques, proper placement, pacing of the illusion and more. All of these factor in on presenting it correctly and by doing so, creating a routine that engages.

I do not mean to shrug off answering your question. I can go into some of it if you would like. It just literally would take me a few very long posts to answer in in full. However, one important lesson to realize is that the illusion is not a levitation. Many folks get this mixed up and try and sell it as so. The illusion is a suspension. A person is suspended in the air defying gravity but being supported by a possible single source. A broom suspension illusion is a suspension style effect and likewise, so is the chair suspension illusion. It is not a levitation and should not be routined that way.

Kids are smart and if your routine is based around the concept of levitation and the patter is geared that way, then the children are basically being directed down a path you do not want them going down. In my routine and the way I present and perform this illusion, I choose to lead them down a different path. It is like controlling a band. The director can (based on what he or she does or says) direct the audience to think and feel and react the way they want them to. This is what I refer to in another article I wrote called Audience manipulation.

I will try and find time later on to add to this as I would like to help you (and others out) with this illusion and your questions as much as I can. This illusion, along with the Flying Carpet) are great illusions. So many magicians just trash them because they think they do not and can not play. This can not be further from the truth. Both illusions are fantastic in the hands of someone who learns how to perform and present them correctly.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 1, 2009 12:39PM)
Hmmmmm!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 12:41PM)
Yes!!??? You're thinking, Todd? lol
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (May 1, 2009 12:58PM)
No doubt, Kyle's e-book would be a must if you do go for the Chair Suspension. Perhaps one day I'll decide to add that illusion, and if I do, I know for sure that's the resource I'd get for study.
My opinion of "In Flight" is rather unfavourable I'm afraid, but I've never seen it performed well. The obvious addition to this illusion is "Neo-Rise", which would STUN the audience, but would also require a lot of practice, to attain the balance required. Needless to say, I've never seen the two effects combined. As it is, In-Flight leaves everyone who sees it under the impression that the performer stood on the box......a rather obvious assumption. How, other than a method like Neo-Rise, could you convince anyone that you're NOT standing on the box?
Perhaps the real answer would be a "Zombie" device used with a pair of shoes at the bottom. Using Bill Abbott's method for "The Thing" to hide the gimmick. Sell that gimmick with "In Flight", and you have possibly the funniest portable illusion available, performable surrounded, next to "Passing Water".
;
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 01:29PM)
Thanks Doug for the kind words. Much appreciated my friend. =)

Kyle
Message: Posted by: akolodner (May 1, 2009 01:58PM)
Hi Kyle,
I just read your book and it is excellent as far as safety and positioning. But there is nothing to answer my question. You even tell the child they are going to "float" so how does that separate it from a perceived levitation? The superman image seems to point to the idea of levitation rather then suspension. Do you say that they are going to float by their neck only? How do you take the heat off of the other chair?
Thanks,
Arnie
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 1, 2009 03:06PM)
Still thinking Kyle. We need to get together and do a lecture at Kidabra. You going this year?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 03:11PM)
Hi Arnie,

Thanks for the kind words about the ebook. In the ebook I did not put in my full routine for obvious reasons. What is in there is a basic idea for my routine only. I did not want folks utilizing my full illusion routine as it has taken me so long to create it. Hope you understand. But let me try and answer your questions as best as I can.

When I perform the illusion I bring a child up on stage. The very first step is to get the child relaxed and trusting me. Throwing the kid right up on the chairs and doing the illusion is asking for trouble. So what I do is to make sure the child trusts me and I do that through laughter. I want them to laugh cause when they do they relax. Also, doing this takes the heat off of the prop and onto me and the child. It becomes changing the focus.

if I came out and immediately showed the illusion and took a child and placed them on it, then the heat and focus becomes to centered on the prop itself. I like to change the focus right from the start. I first get down on the child's level. Towering over them scares the kids. The story line I use is one kids can relate to. It is talking about super heros as all kids can relate to them.

I get the kids saying what their favorite might be. I tell them that I will tell them my favorite but it is silly and they all must promise not to laugh. Of course doing so always gets them laughing... which is what I want them to do. I tell them mine was Superman because he could fly through the air. (the patter goes on but I do not want to reveal too much here). You can see by doing this the focus is no where near the chairs at all. the focus is on the child and myself and what we are going to do.

But I state clearly in the patter that I never got to learn how to make people fly and I never became Superman. However I did become a magician and as a magician I have learned to do something that sort of looks like flying. I can make a person float on the edge of these chairs. In order to do this I need 2 things. I need magic and I need imagination. The imagination is where the child comes in. It is his or her imagination that helps me make this work.

Now notice that this is all done before ever placing the child on the chairs. You may also be wondering how this has anything to do with them not wanting the other chair removed. Well to answer your question, I am entertaining them and engaging them from the start. I am taking heat off of the prop simply by not drawing attention immediately to it. The focus becomes on the child and on me. The audience becomes so entertained by the experience I am creating that there is no reason at all to even ask for them to remove the chair.

The build up is all leading to the point of removing the final board. I even state in the routine (prior to removing the board) "They often say imagination is called magic and magic is often called the impossible and the impossible looks a lot like this...(pause)' That is when the last board is removed.

In this fashion my routine and patter is directing them to realize this is the ending of the illusion. This is the last part of it and the great "reveal". They are directly lead to understand that this is the ending. Because I am directing them in this fashion, no one has any reason to want the other chair removed. The routine is also structured in such a way that I am engaging them at all times through patter, movement and music.

If I stand there and just do the illusion and pause for a long time (after board is removed), I am not dictating the end of the illusion. The audience has no clue what is supposed to happen cause I have not told them. If this is the case, then the logical reaction becomes wanting the last chair removed because they think that is the ending and the next logical step. See my point? My routine leads them down a certain course and through my patter and actions they KNOW ahead of time what the end of the trick is. Because they know, they have no reason to go any further.

What I am not doing is standing up there and going WATCH THIS!!! This is what too many folks do. This puts heat totally on the prop and the audience has no clue what is going to happen. You are not directing their focus at all. If you do it this way (and many do) then the audience is left with wanting to comment simply because you are allowing them to. My routine focuses them and points them all in a direction I want them to go in. It is in essence "audience manipulation". I am manipulating them without them knowing it.

It is a very hard concept to fully explain and I apologize if I am not doing a good job here with it. I will do my best (as always) to answer anyone's questions about this illusion. To fully explain it one would really have to see me perform it or work with me.

So for me, I take the heat off the chair simply by directing them the way I want to direct them. This is through my patter and routining. At no time do I say the child will be floating in mid-air. I also do not say levitate. The words I use are chosen carefully but are used for a purpose.

I also find that if you engage the audience through an effective routine of this illusion, they become so engaged with you and with the child, that there is no time or no reason to shout out anything but to applaud you for what you are doing.

I hope this begins to help if even a little bit. If you or ANYONE has any questions at all, PLEASE let me know. I am here to answer them for you and to assist anyone that asks it of me. My pleasure. =)

Kyle

Posted: May 1, 2009 4:13pm
Todd: I want to but do not know if I could get the time off. If I was doing a lecture or something, then I would and could make it work for sure. I would just need to know in advance. I would LOVE to work with you on a lecture like this and team up if we could. I think you and I could give a very detailed and powerful lecture that could really make a difference and educate. Let me know your thoughts my friend.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: akolodner (May 1, 2009 03:55PM)
Thank you so much Kyle. I am in the midst of re-working my chair routine and you have helped me get the creative juices flowing,

Arnie
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 1, 2009 04:00PM)
Arnie,

You are most welcome. My pleasure. Let me know how it is going for you. In fact, let me post my personal email address for you here. if you need or want any feedback or suggestions, simply email me anytime. My pleasure to assist you.

magic4u02@aol.com

Hope the ebook and these posts are of help to you to achieve the routine you want to create.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: The Awesome One (May 2, 2009 07:56AM)
Kyle,

I recently purchased your ebook, and I must say that I really enjoyed it, a lot of excellent information and discussion on subjects I had not considered. I have not purchased a chair suspension yet, but I will be shortly, so I wanted to read your book so that I could make an informed decision when choosing which to buy.

Your post above regarding the psychology of your routine is excellent and has already got me writing ideas down about my routine (before I have even bought a chair). I think this is the missing chapter of your ebook. So I hope you don't mind, but I have copied that post and added it to my copy of your ebook.

thanks.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 2, 2009 08:34AM)
Thanks so much for your kind words. it is most appreciated. The ebook was one of the very first ones I ever wrote. It was never intended to actually be an ebook. I wrote it as a help to a friend who wanted information. lol I got so many people then emailing me and asking me abiout this book I sent to my firned, that this came to be the ebook that is now out on the market and doing very well.

I have a lot of additional information and am thinking about releasing a much broader and expanded version of the ebook as a physical book in the future. This would be the information in the ebook as well as a vastly expanded section on physchology, pictures of different types and brands, step by step photos of hook ups etc. etc. It is on my list of projects to work on. =)

This is why for now, I tell every person that if they have any questions at all about this illusion or the ebook, to simply email me anytime and I will go over anything with them. it is my pleasure to assist anyone with this great illusion.

So yes, please copy and add that to the ebook as you would like. That is not a problem at all and glad it was of help to you.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Michael Messing (May 2, 2009 11:01AM)
[quote]
On 2009-04-30 18:20, Kevinr wrote:

This one looks liek the best one on the market!

http://illusionartistry.com/chair.html
[/quote]

That is the European Chair Suspension. I own one and am very satisfied with it. I know the Sommers & Mak Chair Suspensions are very popular. The price is right, the weight is minimal, etc. but I definitely wasn't comfortable with it when I purchased one. I rehearsed with it one time and immediately sent it back for a refund. I have Kyle's e-book and it is excellent and he really has taken the safety issue head on but there is still a pretty low weight limit for doing those versions.

I stayed away from the Chair Suspension for a lot of years. Then, I saw Gunther Puchinger's version that was being sold by Chalet Magic at the time. It was fantastic but the price was too high for me. Later, I bought a chair suspension from Sandy Rhoades. It was built directly from the Harbin plans and would easily hold 175 lbs. I loved using it but it was too heavy and large to use in a person's house or for a smaller show.

I used it in my illusion show for 11 years and then sold it last year. I had read several posts about the European Chair Suspension but there isn't a lot out there on it. I found one on eBay that had been lightly used and was selling for a good price. I bought it and I love it.

It's much lighter weight than the one I used before and it's rock solid when a person is properly positioned on it. I tried it out with my assistant (she's a 5'4" tall and weighs about 115 lbs.) and she said it was much more comfortable than the one I used for 11 years.

I know the price is considerably higher than a Sommers or Mak version but it's really worth it. Even with all the ways to make it safe that Kyle explains in his e-book, I still prefer a more solid version than the inexpensive ones. To me, it's not worth the risk. By the way, the price on the European Chair Suspension in the link above is pretty good.

I also own a Flying Carpet illusion and I think each has their place.

Michael
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 2, 2009 11:07AM)
Kyle-

Maybe someday we can pull this off. I agree that between the two of us, we could create something pretty powerful and unique.

I did my flying carpet routine last night and had the mom that booked me chase me to the car. She kept wanting to know how I made her 10 year old daughter float in the air. Too funny!

PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING!
Message: Posted by: BrianJ (May 9, 2009 11:40AM)
When do we get to see it? sounds really nice.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 9, 2009 01:05PM)
I am working on the video which will come with full performance rights. It will be something you'll have to buy but the price will be very affordable. As far as producing the actual illusion itself that breaks down, that is all going to depend upon how time consuming it is for the machine shop to get them out and of course, cist is an issue as well.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 10:37AM)
Sounds great Todd. if you need any help or suggestions or simply someone to bounce ideas off of, just let me know.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (May 10, 2009 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-09 14:05, todd75 wrote:
I am working on the video which will come with full performance rights. It will be something you'll have to buy but the price will be very affordable. As far as producing the actual illusion itself that breaks down, that is all going to depend upon how time consuming it is for the machine shop to get them out and of course, cist is an issue as well.
[/quote]

cant wait please let us know..
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 01:47PM)
I have plans to start the video taping this week but we'll see. My schedule is jammed packed this month so I have my fingers crossed.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 02:19PM)
I hear ya there Todd. Let me know when you create more hours in the day or can clone myself. lol
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (May 10, 2009 07:13PM)
This could be of great benefit to the magical community to have a generous offer of an "audience tested" routine offered for consumption, especially one that has been auidence tested for all of about a month and a half. I realize this doesn't really compare with Kyle's experience with the chair suspension--Kyle has been doing his routine for 5 years or so I believe--but aren't we all so lucky.

Jim
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 07:43PM)
What?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 08:28PM)
I am with Todd on this one. What?

Jim: I know you and I know Todd very well. I am not quite sure what you are referring to. If you are saying Todd doesn;t have experience, you are wrong there as Todd has a ton of it. We have talked many times in regards to both illusions.

If you are saying he does not have experience with the chair suspension, he does indeed. BUt I think he is referring to the Flying Carpet illusion of which he not only knows a ton about, he has developed routines and functionality that I personally think is top notch all the way.

PS: I have been doing the chairs a lot longer then 5 years lol. But I alsoknow Todd has been doing his flying carpet illusion and research and knows what he is talking about. I totally would back up any project he works on.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 08:44PM)
Thanks Kyle!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 09:04PM)
No problem. I think it was just a bit of misunderstanding or reading into soemthing that really is not there. Happens a lot on the Café. lol

Kyle
Message: Posted by: revmike (May 10, 2009 09:09PM)
Thanks Kyle & Kelly for everything yesterday and hope someday I see you and Kelly perform the Chair Suspension.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 09:10PM)
Me and James talked on the phone once regarding the flying carpet. I believe he modified one to break down as well if I remember correctly. Can't imagine what he is talking about!
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (May 10, 2009 09:17PM)
Sorry, guys, but I disagree. I also think this is an important discussion to have, not because of the specifics of this particular situation, which are material, but because of the issue in general.

I remember Todd a few years ago saying the chairs suck and the carpet is the only way to go. Then months or a year later it was, the carpet sucks and the chairs are the only way to go. Todd even confirms this on this very thread where he talks about how he found the carpet to be lousy because he couldn’t create a good routine for it. And now he’s back to, the chairs suck and the carpet is the only way to go because NOW I’ve got a great routine that is so good I’m going to offer it for sale including “the song” that goes with it. (Search the Café’s past threads to prove this history.)

I remember Billy Macomb in an interview complaining about people prematurely publishing routines after they had used them for “only a few years.” Here we have a routine that is less than a few months old.

I’m with Billy Macomb. I know from personal experience as a street performer, performing the same routines over and over for thousands of people over many many years that a routine evolves in ways you could not imagine without that exhaustive experience in front of real audiences. I would not call a routine “audience tested” after a month.

I have been doing my carpet routine for five years. I don’t use “a song,” I have a complex sound track with voice over, sound effects, and four musical cuts all blended together. Kyle has been doing his chair routine for MORE than five years.

I’ve known my carpet routine was extremely effective for five years. I haven’t had to change my mind over and over about it.

Kyle, you say Todd knows a lot about the carpet and its functionality. What makes you think those are his ideas? He called and picked my brain about my carpet a little while back, he even tried to buy my carpet right before this latest sudden conversion of his. I’m not saying whatever he’s pitching is mine. I assume he got more stuff from other people too. All I’m saying is that, from Todd’s own admission, he didn’t have a workable routine until a short while ago, and that before that, his carpet routine was so mediocre that he stopped performing the carpet and mistakenly blamed the illusion itself.

I believe Kyle’s experience and his book speaks for itself. For him to compare himself with you just doesn’t work for me.

I wonder how Todd’s opinion is going to change a few months from now?

Jim
Message: Posted by: g0thike (May 10, 2009 09:29PM)
The best childrens levitation in living room parties is a broom suspension.

I usually pick the bday boy/girl to help me perform an illusion.

G0THIKE
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 09:38PM)
Jim....wow what a surprise!

As mentioned in this very thread, I have used both. I would not say that either of the illusions suck in general. The reason I tested each of them over a period of time was to see which one worked better for my style and comfort level. For me it took some time but the carpet is the winner for me and I don't have any plans for that to change.

When we talked and I offered to buy yours, it was because I was interested in the fact that it broke down. I found someone to make them so they can break down and fit into a suitcase on wheels which is great. I can assure you that I did not steal your idea! I have never even seen your carpet!

Posted: May 10, 2009 10:48pm
FYI- my flying carpet routine is more than a month and a half old. it has taken me years of trial and error to get it to where it is today. I would never release something I just started doing a few weeks ago. It has recently been finished being put together so that it gets a great reaction.

I am sure that any entertainer will tell you they have had routines they have thought were great but ended up not turning out as they thought it would. We all learn from trial and error!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 10:01PM)
Ok I have to admit I am in total shock right now. I know both of you very well and I am stunned to see you Jim go off like this. It is not like you to do so regardless of what you feel or think may have happened. This obviosuly looks like someone is upset over someone else "stealing" ideas, tips or concepts from soneone else. I obviously know nothing about this at all.

All I know is that Todd knows what he is talking about and I have had the pleasure to talk with him a lot regrading both illusions. I can only judge a person based on what I personally have seen or heard them say or do to me.

Now if this is indeed a personal issue of someone being upset over something being "stolen", then please refrain from conducting the aregument here in a public forum. It would make better sense to email or pick up the phone and talk it out. Obviosuly you both are man enough and gentlemen enough to be able to discuss your differences like adults.

Only my opinion.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 10:26PM)
Thanks again Kyle!

Jim: I can understand where it would "look" like I can't make up my mind which illusion I am going to use in my show. For awhile I was stuck between which one whuch is why I tested both over and over. I am VERY picky about what I will and what I won't put in my shows- period. I admit in the thread that I originally thought the flying carpet was a bad illusion. I say that for many reasons. The way the gimmick is positioned, the fringe used, etc. etc. is all a bad idea in my opinion if you get one from a dealer and perform it as is. What I did was modify the gimmick, get rid of the fringe, get rid of the swords and move the magnets. I have no idea if you did any of this on yours or not. Like I said, I have never even seen your carpet. I would never want to steal your ideas. The fact that I offered to buy yours should tell you that I never had any intentions of stealing or ripping you off. I just remember us talking about the illusion over the phone. I did not steal anything from you and would hope that you are not suggesting that I did as I would take offense to that. I'll even be happy to send you pictures of mine which I am sure looks nothing at close to yours as I designed mine personally. I'd even be willing to help you with ideas on yours if you ever needed any.

The rountine I am using has been a work in progress which has taken quite a long time to develope. It has been recently that I got the routine finished with all of the comedy lines, music. etc. but again- a work in progress.

I've used the chair suspension numerous times as well as the carpet. I've even modified some other carpets for other performers and sold them. So far everyone has been very happy with theirs.

Next subject please....
Message: Posted by: kazam65 (May 10, 2009 11:00PM)
I personally use Abbott's "Super X" Illusion for the birthday parties I do. I think is has a much more "WOW" effect than the other 2 floating illusions. The pictures that moms take of their child floating look fabulous.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 11:05PM)
The Super x is a great illusion but also has bulk and a heavy factor for transporting to and from a gig. It also has obvious angle issues which one must be aware of prior to any performance. However, it really does come down to personal preference. It means what illusion works best for YOU and the show YOU put on for your clients and audiences. If they are being entertained and you exceed expectations, then that is what really counts.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (May 10, 2009 11:14PM)
Dear Guys,
It seems I have struck a deep chord here with both of you, however, please don’t try to misinterpret what I wrote. This is an important topic for the magical community so don’t try to change the subject.

My post was about the issue of material being brought to market before it is really audience tested. Billy Mcomb did not believe in that and neither do I.

Regardless of how long Todd has worked on his routine, the fact remains that it is not “audience tested” as he claims. Performing something for a month or a few months is not audience tested. That is what my post was about and it is an important issue for the magical community to discuss, which is why I brought this up.

In this last post by Todd, even clearly admits that his carpet routine, the one he is selling, is still “a work in progress.” His words. That speaks for itself in terms of whether or not it is ready to bring to market.

How many years of experience did Kyle have before he wrote his book on the chairs?

It is apparent that Todd is trying to change the subject and make my post about something else in order to skirt the subject.

Okay, now the following is off topic, but just the sake of accuracy:

Todd says he doesn’t know anything about what I did to my carpet or how it looks. He says he has never seen my carpet.

For the record though, Todd did see my carpet on my website, which is why he called me immediately after he saw it and asked me many questions about how my illusion broke down, how it was transported, where the gimmick was positioned, how I designed it to break apart, and other specific aspects that are original to my design. Again, this is off topic but just for the sake of accuracy.

Further, if he never saw it or knew anything about my carpet they why would he have even called me to ask me about it or want to buy it?

I also know other magicians who Todd has contacted and picked their brain about their illusions. Nothing wrong with that. I just don’t like him saying he is “the expert” when he isn’t. I pointed Todd in the direction of the person he should contact to learn more. This person was giving his concepts for free, as Kyle often does.

I don’t understand why Todd feels the need to be, how shall I put this, less than forthcoming with the facts about this. But perhaps this defensiveness is a further indication of the validity of what I am trying to point out.

Jim
Message: Posted by: kazam65 (May 10, 2009 11:16PM)
Kyle you're absolutely correct. It IS bulky and heavy, there ARE angle issues. BUT... I am always very careful to guard the secret by controlling where everyone sits and how they all scatter from the area after my performance, allowing me to break down in private. I've seen all 3 of the floating illusions and I personally wouldn't change from the Super X to any of the others mentioned.

I offer 3 Birthday Party packages, with the levitation being the most expensive. And about 75 percent of my parties book the package with the levitation!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 10, 2009 11:26PM)
Kazam: That is wonderful if it is working for you and working for yourclients and audiences. That is the only thing you could ask for. Congrats on finding something that fits who you are as a performer. =)

Jim: I read everything in full and I am not going to get into the middle of this. I know you well and I also know Todd very well. This is obviously something between the both of you. I only ask and BEG you both to conduct this discussion as an e-mail or PM or over the phone. I see no benefit at all in this form of discussion continuing in this thread (in this fashion). The only thing that will come of it, is to get the thread locked. That happens and we lose a lot of great information and discussion. I wish you and Todd the very best as I do for any magician.

So with that said, let us try and get back to the topic at hand and discuss the best children's levitation that we each feel works the best for us and why we feel that way. What are the pros and cons of each illusion and what can we learn from each?

Kyle

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 10, 2009 11:38PM)
Jim- I am not trying to "change the subject" at all! I just wanted to clarify that I did not steal anything from you or anyone else for that matter. That is not my style or intentions at all. Magicians helping magicians is our theme her at the Café. Yes, I've talked with several member from the Café through the years about various things. I've also had numerous people contact me with questions about things. As you said, nothing wrong with that!

As far as me not "seeing your carpet," I mean that it terms of seeing it in person. I do recall seeing it in an action shot on your website which is why I brought it up over the phone and we talked about it. I was and still am thankful for the information you shared.

I am not by any means claiming to be an expert when it comes to building / designing illusions at all. What I am calling a "work in progress" was just that- a work in progress that is now finished and fine tuned. Yes, the finished rountine is not that old but what I am getting at is that it took years to get it to where it is today. I am very happy with the result and judging from the reaction of my audiences, they love it as well. I am with you and totally agree that things should not be done for a short period of time and then released to the magic community. I think you are missing my point here James. It's not like a bought a flying carpet a month ago and started performing it last week. I honestly beleive that what I have done now in terms of performing the illusion (the story and routine) are perfect. Yes, it took my a while of going back and forth between the flying carpet and chair suspension to finally figure out what worked best for me. I am sure it has taken Kyle quite a long time to get his routine as strong as it is today.

I hope you are not frustrated that I have a flying carpet that breaks down. I am sure mine is quite different than yours. The offer alwats stands if you want to see pictures of what I've done.

Posted: May 11, 2009 12:49am
You are right Kyle- let's get back to topic! I would hate to see the thread get locked and taken away. No hard feelings toward James on my end- just a difference of opinion!

One thing that I had happen to me on several occassions with the chair suspension was that the living room at a birthday party was very very small and sitting up the illusion took up most of the area. I would always let the client that I need a space with an area of at least 10 feet from side to side. However, I would show up and the room was more like 5 feet wide. I would have to position the chairs kinda' sideways if you will. With the carpet, I never have a problem in terms of space. This is another reason I am a big fan.

What would be really cool would be (and I am pondering doing this) is to add a motor under the top board that the child sits on with a few seconds delay. After 10 seconds or so the board would start moving. I wonder if anyone has attempted that? The only problem I see with this is that it might mentally tell the audience the board is attached to something. Any thoughts anyone?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 05:58AM)
You are correct. The chairs do take up more room width wise for sure. I also ask for a 10' by 10' space to perform in. This is part of my agreement. Now I do not always get that space. When I do not, a simple solution is to learn how to move my roll on table off to the side and set up the chairs in front of them. This can certainly be done, but you need to rehearse and practice it so it is smooth and you are covering the right areas. You mist also still be sure your connections are right. This works out very well in the times of tight spaces.

The motor idea on the flying carpet is a good one. I would not forsee any issue in regards to it killing the illusionary effect. In reality I think it would make it stronger. I think it would be important that the audienc efeel as if the magician is causing the the rotation to happen. In fact, having it controlled by a remote in your pocket is another option. This way you could control and stop the spin part way and then finish it. The importance would be that the audience perceive that YOU are causing the spin to take place through magical means. In other words your hand gestures would be needed to look as if you are causing it to spin. Nice idea though and one worth exploring. It would also need to be quiet.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (May 11, 2009 07:34AM)
I took a different approach to the Carpet as suggested by Walt Disney's Aladdin film in which the carpet takes on a life of its own. Rather than under control of the magician, my carpet was possessed and a bit mischevious. It bounced around on top of the book, knocked off objects that were set down on top of it, and seemed to get more and more excited as it approached the time for it to perform. It made chirping noises that I could understand and which I interpreted for the audience. The little tassels on the four corners (again, getting my cue from Disney) were under "zombie" control to make them expressive, and magnetic to make them able to hold small objects and even openly steal them from my person, to the amusement of the audience.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 07:59AM)
Great ideas here spellbinder. I really love the notion here of creativity. Of making sure that whatever illusion you are performing, you make it fit who you are, your style and add creativity to it. Make it fun for an audience. Great stuff.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 09:49AM)
I am still playing with the idea of the motor. I agree that the hand gestures would be very important to give the illusion that the magician is causing the board to move.

I use a small step stool with 2 steps during my routine. This is used as part of the story and also to allow the kid to use it so getting onto the carpet is super easy. This way I never have to touch a child.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 09:57AM)
Todd: I think the motor idea is one worth exploring for sure. It allows the hands to be free and the performer to be no where near the illusion when the spinning magical moment takes place. It could really add to the illusion if it could be rigged up easily, remains quiet and is in full control.

I also use a step stool for the same reason when I am doing the chair suspension illusion. It also serves a purpose of positioning the child perfectly once they are on the board. I place the stool in a certain location so when they step up and sit on the board, the position is almost always where I need it to be. It also adds as a great pedestal for the child at the end of the routine to get a great round of applause.

I think the stool also helps me to develop that trust in me and the helper long before they go on the illusion. It is important that they have no diffculty doing so. Getting on and off should be simple and easy.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 10:39AM)
I use the stool for the same reason but also as part of the story. The story is about me climbing a tree when I was a young boy. I use the steps to illustrate!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 10:44AM)
Great tie in and allows the stool to also have purpose. I do the same thing. In my routine I talk about growing up and what I wanted to be when I was a kid. I tell the helper that I sat on a stool (sit down) and told my mom exactly what I wanted to be. So in this way it makes sense to my storyline but also serves a purpose of me being on THEIR level when the child comes up.

I like doing this because they see into my eyes and the fear is not there at all (if there even was any). They build that trust with me cause I am not towering over them and it helps me to get them to laugh. Also, because they have seen me on the stool and using he stool, they also are more apt to want to use it as well. I set the example for them.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 11:02AM)
Love it!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 11:13AM)
Thanks. I think one problem too many magicians do with both illusions is to rush it. They get a child helper up on stage and slap them down on this thing and start performing the illusion. You simply can't do that. You routine and presentation has to be structured in such a way that you build trust in the helper first and then take them through the steps in a calm and steady pace. There is no need to rush into it. I realize that I can get them to relax by 1) being on their level 2) telling a story of when I was their age and 3) getting them to laugh. This is all done before they even get close to the illusion itself.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 11:27AM)
You are right....years ago when I had my first flying carpet I rushed it and it did not play well at all. Over the years of performing both the carpet and chairs, I had to get the routine to where I wanted it. Trust with the child is a HUGE factor.

I had a young girl cry on the carpet recently before anything even happened. It later turned out that everytime she came up to do anything she would cry no matter what.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 12:22PM)
That brings up another important reason why I do a routine the way I do. It is also why I have a story line with the helper prior to them going over to the illusion.

When I am talking with them and telling them the story, I am really reading them. I am seeing how they react to me. I can tell right there if the child will be a problem or scared or not a good candidate for the illusion. I can figure this out ahead of time which allows me to take different courses of action as is needed.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 12:50PM)
I also talk to the birthday child before the show even starts. I do this for several reasons: I want to learn their personality and I want them to learn mine. If I feel for any reason that the child will not cooperate I let the parent know right away. I have had a few parents get upset but I explain to them that it is far better for their child to sit and watch than it is to force them. I simply won't force a child to do anything- period! I also will not put their safety at risk- end of story.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 01:04PM)
Absolutely correct. I also talk with the child prior to the show. I also make sure the parents know in advance that I can not perform it for children over 85lbs in weight and that I have an alternate ending if that should be the case. I also state that I can not force any child (including theirs) to perform the illusion. In the event that the child does not want to do it, I have the child help me and become the magician who then makes a friend ssuspend in the air. Either way they are made to be te star of the show.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 01:13PM)
I know of a certain magician that several years ago forced a child to do the chair suspension. The child was crying and begging to go back to their seat. The magician said and I quote, "you volunteered for this so let's do it!" All I could do was watch in horror. Needless to say, I have not seen or heard of this guy performing anymore. Talk about unprofessional!
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 11, 2009 08:23PM)
Are you kidding me!!!??? I would have gone cxrazy. That is when I would have personally had a talk with the person after the show and pulled them aside. That simply can NOT happen or be tolerated. That is just flat out wrong.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 11, 2009 08:56PM)
This was a show at an elementary school carnival. Needless to say the place was packed and I was sitting In the very back of the room. Trust me when say I could hardly believe what I saw and heard. I did not talk with the performer but I am sure that he hung himself with what happened. I don't know the guy personally and had never even heard of him. Like I said, I've never seen him again and doubt that he could last in the business with the way he treated his audience members.

One of the most important things we as performer must do is treat our audiences with respect at all times. I can only imagine that the poor child who was forced to help out most likely hates magic shows now and always will.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 12, 2009 05:59AM)
You are so right. Some magicians fall into the category of what I referto in my "creativity" lecture as "Falling in love with ourselves." We love an effect or illusion so much that we end up doing it for US and not for THEM. We forget the audience and by doing so start putting undo pressure on them.

You must always realize that your audience is everything. Without them you are a lonely guy on a stage by yourself. You simply can NOT pressure a child into doing any of these style illusions. You must always be willing to not do the illusion if you know you can not find a child that will work and meet the needs of the illusion. Never force it to happen.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 12, 2009 07:50AM)
Right on!

I don't force any child to do anything- levitation or anything else for that matter.
Message: Posted by: TCsteinberg (May 12, 2009 08:54AM)
Hi,
Anybody want to purchase my Jim Sommers Chair Suspension?
Practically new (used it about 5x), have a real nice soft case for it (made for keyboards, everything fits perfectly).
Love to get rid of it, will give you a great deal.
Call or e-mail if interested, thanks,
Todd

*see profile for contact info
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 12, 2009 09:20AM)
TCsteinberg:

you need to post this in the let's make a deal section. You need 50 posts to do so!
Message: Posted by: Michael Taggert (May 14, 2009 07:22PM)
I have been following this discussion hoping to get something out of it or to contribute more to iit. so here I go. after performing the carpet for the past 25 years and finally retiring my p;d wooden chairs for a new set this past year. I think I have them down to ok routines. What I know to be true about putting a kid on the illusions is this. the kids have to work up to it to be dynamite.I therefore use the selected kid in two other routines that build up that level of confidence in the kid. By using the kid in a positive way they are then given the reinforcement that will get them comfortable enough to relax and have a great time. I use this in all my shows. I have worn out Two carpets and am on my second set of chairs it works,
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 15, 2009 06:22AM)
Absolutely correct. You can certainly build the trust, as Michael does. That is a god idea. Or, you can also build it up by creating a routine that gives time devoted in the ebginning of the routine to lughter and smiles before the child is ever placed on the illusion. This is what I do. My rotuine is strutcured in such a way that I always have the illusion at the end of the show and I always get the child relaxed and trusting me long before the illusion ever starts. It really does work.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (May 15, 2009 12:48PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-11 08:34, Spellbinder wrote:
I took a different approach to the Carpet as suggested by Walt Disney's Aladdin film in which the carpet takes on a life of its own. Rather than under control of the magician, my carpet was possessed and a bit mischevious. It bounced around on top of the book, knocked off objects that were set down on top of it, and seemed to get more and more excited as it approached the time for it to perform. It made chirping noises that I could understand and which I interpreted for the audience. The little tassels on the four corners (again, getting my cue from Disney) were under "zombie" control to make them expressive, and magnetic to make them able to hold small objects and even openly steal them from my person, to the amusement of the audience.
[/quote]
...a very creative post, Spellbinder. You're one of the most creative people here in Little Darlings, here are some awesome ideas!
Potty ;)
Message: Posted by: Ed_Millis (May 15, 2009 03:21PM)
I have all but abandoned the very idea of ever again performing in someone else's home. I've have very little so far in the way of carry-in and set-up, but I still get the willies when I think about some of the expensive carpets and furniture I've seen getting nicked or damaged.

The thought of bringing a (relatively) large and heavy illusion into such a room through a maze of furniture and set up on expensive tile or shag and causing even a small bit of damage is enough to make me stay far away from these, no matter what their added value is!

Obviously, though, many expert performers do this all the time with no problems at all. Do you take extra precautions for certain situations? Or is there just absolutely nothing to worry about (other than being clumsy)?

Ed
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (May 17, 2009 10:54PM)
Someone with Michael's experience I am ready to listen to.

Jim
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 18, 2009 06:54PM)
Jolly Roger tells me that there is an old illusion out there called FLOAT ME ALONE which is a suitcase levitation. It seems as though the illusion can be assembled in front of everyone. You open a suitcase and take out 2 other suitcases. The child sits on top and you pull out the middle suitcase. Sounds very interesting! I know nothing of this illusion but he tells me that it is by far the best illusion of a child.
Message: Posted by: Magicalpro (May 18, 2009 07:20PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-18 19:54, todd75 wrote:
Jolly Roger tells me that there is an old illusion out there called FLOAT ME ALONE which is a suitcase levitation. [/quote]

Hank Lee was putting this out, a few years ago... I am not saying it originated with him, but you might give them a call if you are really curious.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 18, 2009 07:30PM)
Roger just told me about it...that's all. I would like to see what it looks like as it does sound interesting. I think Roger told he that he got his from Hank Lee's
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 19, 2009 06:21AM)
That is interesting as I have not seen or heard about that one as well. I would love to see it and get a feel for it. I have an idea of what principle it utilizes. if I am correct, then what would be great is to change up the suitcases and change them into books. Then use it in a library show to show the magic in reading. Just an idea.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: todd75 (May 19, 2009 08:22AM)
Wow Kyle...great minds think alike! I do a ton of school shows that promote reading and that is the same thing I was thinking of. I currently do this with my flying carpet, the screen looks like a giant book.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (May 20, 2009 06:17PM)
Yep. Works really great and a nice way to end your library show by showing that reading is magic. =)

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (May 21, 2009 10:31PM)
I just released my Vampire Levitation in time to enter the competition for "best" children's levitation in the living room. Originally, this was designed for a 1975 theatrical production of Dracula on a huge stage, but over the years I whittled away at it until it is now one of the lightest weight, easy-to-set-up-in full-view-of-the-audience self-levitations (NOT a suspension) that you can make yourself for under $50.00. It's on my site in The Wizards' Journal #17.
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jun 6, 2009 07:00PM)
Spellbinder,

Does this look as good as say Super X and is it more practical? How long on average to build it? I'm really looking for something light and practical (as I'm sure everyone is). I only want to have one levitation as well.

On that topic, I didn't notice much mention of the Super X for living rooms. A friend of mine uses his religiously to float the birthday girl/boy with much success, although I've never seen him perform it he seems to love it. Are not many performers using this much anymore?

Thanks,

CPH
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jun 6, 2009 10:06PM)
I also preferred using the Super-X as a suspension, making it SEEM as if I was going to do a chair suspension by using two chairs on the ends of the board, then turning them around so the seats pointed out away from one another, removing first one chair, and then the other.

However, the Vampire Levitation is NOT a suspension and it is done with yourself as the levitee, rather than someone from the audience. However, it is probably the lightest weighing levitation you have ever lugged around, even considering that you need to carry a backdrop to perform it. Once you assemble the inexpensive parts you need, there's not much to build. You could make a mock-up in one evening and try it out in front of a mirror to begin learning how to levitate and disappear.
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jun 24, 2009 10:57PM)
How much in all to build a working quality version that will last?

Also, does anyone have the Super X version that you can walk away from? Is there a huge difference in the price and weight as well? Again, I'm looking for the best looking, most practical living room package. If anyone knows of plans for sale to build too, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Posted: Jun 27, 2009 2:28am
Anyone???

Also, does anyone know what levitation Patrick Harris is currently doing?
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Jun 28, 2009 10:50PM)
I think this really is a hot topic for debate.. Everyone would love to have a true levitation to do in living room partis but seem limited to "magic carpet" and "Chair Levitation"

A good developer really could open the door to something better someday...
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jun 29, 2009 10:44PM)
You're very correct! In fact, I'd have busted out my card already!!!

Spellbinder, if nothing else can you say that you had good success with Super X in the B-day party arena? I know there's angle issues BUT, it is undoubtedly more deceptive than the "other two". I love your idea with the chairs! Would this work with the walk away version? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Michael Messing (Jun 29, 2009 11:18PM)
[quote]
On 2009-06-28 23:50, Kevinr wrote:
I think this really is a hot topic for debate.. Everyone would love to have a true levitation to do in living room partis but seem limited to "magic carpet" and "Chair Levitation"

A good developer really could open the door to something better someday...
[/quote]

It's a worthy aspiration but the truth is people have been clamoring for something like that for a long time and it hasn't happened yet. That doesn't mean it won't but there are severe limitations for performing a true levitation in a living room.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jun 30, 2009 12:22AM)
Well, there's always "Neo-Rise" - using m*****s, which weighs about 6 oz, and is a superb, funny levitation. Also, Jolly Roger's floating magician routine - something like "Cloth of Invisibility"...
And of course, many performers are now using "In-Flight" since Magic Dave included it on his first DVD. His presentation worked because it was comical, but it's really a non-illusion, as it's obvious that the performer stands on the box. Possibly one of the lamest levitations on the market...
Potty ;)
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 1, 2009 12:54AM)
Doug,

Are you pro-Flying Carpet all the way then? Do you use it with much success?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 1, 2009 01:48AM)
Pro Flying Carpet - yes. Though if I didn't wear enormous shoes, I'd probably use Neo-Rise a LOT. I may start using Roger's Cloth of Invisibility, as it's funny and neat, plays better by far than In-flight, in my opinion.
The Flying Carpet is a big old thing to lug around, and beware - there are many cheap imitations out there. the low quality Flying Carpets are a joke, my friend recently acquired one, and you can actually SEE the gimmick as the table top rotates!
See my flying Carpet in action about half way through this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw933NoTy0o
Notice the kid in the foreground saying "It's magic - I didn't think magic was real". That's the reaction the Flying carpet gets.
I highly respect Kyle's love of the Chair Suspension though, and I'm sure if you get his ebooklet, he has suggestions to make this illusion play well too. If I ever offer a chair suspension, it will be the one where both chairs are removed.
Potty ;)
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Jul 1, 2009 11:45AM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-01 02:48, Potty the Pirate wrote:
If I ever offer a chair suspension, it will be the one where both chairs are removed.
Potty ;)
[/quote]

But which one can you remove both chairs with and STILL drag it in the living room with no angles and easy set up like a chair suspension Potty..

That would be HARD to pull off.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 1, 2009 07:11PM)
I think folks need to make sure they realize that the chair suspension is just that, it is a suspension. If both chairs are removed, you change the nature of the illusion entirely. You then will have a levitation style effect.

Now with any illusion, it comes down to your style and presentation that makes it entertaining. You can not just place the prop out there for olks to look at and go "tada". lol It is what you do and your routine that makes the illusion play well.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 1, 2009 08:16PM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-01 12:45, Kevinr wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-07-01 02:48, Potty the Pirate wrote:
If I ever offer a chair suspension, it will be the one where both chairs are removed.
Potty ;)
[/quote]

But which one can you remove both chairs with and STILL drag it in the living room with no angles and easy set up like a chair suspension Potty..

That would be HARD to pull off.
[/quote]
Actually, it's already out there.....but perhaps, no one is making it right now?
;)
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 1, 2009 09:52PM)
Good stuff Potty! Looks like a high energy show, and I like the song!

Well so far for me it's neither of the status quo yet. I picked up Float Me Alone because it just seems too practical at 30 lbs with a 175 lb capacity AND the case is 1/3 the prop! Being able to float myself would just be an added bonus!!! Plus, I'm a huge fan of the "ordinary" doing the unbelievable! Much of the reason the chairs interest me, but who knows where I'll go from here???

Your carpet did look great! What make if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 2, 2009 01:45AM)
Thanks for your kind words, Zaprig. I bought my Flying Carpet from Tommy Cooper Magic in Blackpool. I don't actually know the manufacturer, but it's a "home-made" affair, nonetheless, one of the best FC's out there, in my opinion.
Doug ;)
Message: Posted by: Kevinr (Jul 2, 2009 03:17PM)
Hey Potty,

Yes I am well aware of the two chairs being moved illusion...

The issue with it thougis to drag all that in a living room WITHOUT getting caught and NO ANGLES.. (like the simple chair suspension)


If you know of two chairs that can be removed and is a set up time of a chair suspension with similar angles.

I AM ALL EARS!! DO TELL US.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 3, 2009 12:54PM)
I don't know of such an illusion with a quick set-up, at least not as fast as the chair suspension. What set-up? I wouldn't perform such an illusion in a living room. But most of my kid's parties are held in halls, and I also work a lot of public events....so for such an effect, I'd ensure plenty of space. The illusion I'm referring to is "The Amazing Floating Lady" (I think). I honestly can't be certain it's that one, but the one I'm thinking of can have 360 degree audiences, IF the gimmick (which is shaped like a certain letter of the alphabet) is hidden by correct routining - mostly simply by the performer's costume, if possible.
Doug :)
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 4, 2009 03:19AM)
Potty,

You speak of the Super X. Just my opinion, but the most convincing suspension of all. No visible means of support, and a totally convincing hoop pass to boot.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 4, 2009 08:11AM)
The only thing is the Super x is not considered a suspension. It is considered a levitation. A suspension is one in which the audience can see something apprently holding up part of the assistant. A perfect example of this would be the broom suspension or the chair suspension. The audience sees the object (such as the broom or chair) suspending part of the body. in regards to the super x, the audience sees nothing holding the assistant up, hence this would be a levitation style illusion.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jul 4, 2009 11:23AM)
Kyle -

I thought a levitation had to rise and descend, for it to be a levitation. I thought a suspension had no movement to the person floating.

It's been a while since I looked at a copy of the Encyclopedia of Suspensions and Levitations.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 4, 2009 11:39AM)
Not at all. In my frame of reference (at least in regards to magic) a levitation means simply that something is levitated or not suspended or held up by something else. A levitation does not have to move to be a levitation. It simply must look like nothing is holding it up. To me, levitation is to float in the apparent difiance of gravity without the means of support. Just my personal take on it.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jul 4, 2009 11:49AM)
In the "Encyclopedia of Suspensions and Levitations", it defines the differences between the two.

I'd like to hear an external commentary from an "authorized source" (such as that book)... not our personal feelings.

Unfortunately, I don't own a copy of that book, so I can't pull it out and reference it.

Here is one previous thread: [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=175321&forum=7]Suspension vs. levitation[/url] (Dennis Michael seems to define it the same way as I do. But Bill Palmer shares Walter Blaney's definition a bit later, and it seems to agree with yours.)

- Donald

P.S. Don't get me wrong, Kyle. I'm saying that you might have a misunderstanding in your definitions. But I am not saying that you aren't knowledgable on the topic of the chair suspension, etc.
Message: Posted by: gmindmagic (Jul 4, 2009 12:18PM)
Just a quick heads up, there is a great levitation coming out you can use practically anywhere. Jeff Jones of Magic Backdrop fame is going to be releasing it in the near future. If you know Jeff and his work it is really great.

You can actually see a short video of Jeff performing this at a library at http://www.librarymagician.com

I think it looks great! And from what Jeff has said he performs it almost everywhere and is truly portable. Oh and you don't need a backdrop even thou he makes the coolest.
Message: Posted by: todd75 (Jul 4, 2009 01:06PM)
I've talked with Jeff about his illusion as well and the price is $2000.00 which is o.k. if the illusion is as great as it looks.
Message: Posted by: Bigboymagic (Jul 4, 2009 10:04PM)
With all this talk about the chair suspension and the flying carpet I am going to have to break down and buy one is the Chair Suspension by Mak Magic a good way to start or does anyone have a better suggestion?
Thanks,
Message: Posted by: magicbob116 (Jul 4, 2009 11:11PM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-04 23:04, Bigboymagic wrote:
With all this talk about the chair suspension and the flying carpet I am going to have to break down and buy one is the Chair Suspension by Mak Magic a good way to start or does anyone have a better suggestion?
Thanks,
[/quote]

As long as your intent is to use a child as your assistant, the MAK should serve you well. If you want to use an adult, you'll need to purchase one of the models that's rated for more weight.
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 5, 2009 10:30AM)
Donald: not a problem at all. I know for a fact that this has been an area for disagreement for years. many magicians have different opinions on it. what I stated is my own personal opinion only. This is just based upon my own observation, research and talking with folks. Certainly there are other theories and mine is not to be taken as the ONLY one. =)

bigBoy: Before you decide on whioch is rigth for you, you have to ask yourself if you are using it for kid helpers only or are you wanting to use an adult helper. This makes a big difference in which model will work best for you.

for kid helpers, the MAK or Sommer's models are very good and will run you about 450 US dollars. If you want to use an adult helper, then the European and bill Smith models would be the way to go.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jul 5, 2009 10:49AM)
What? Kyle and Donald don't agree? Controversy! Controversy!

:)

- Donald
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 5, 2009 05:38PM)
Donald: lol I laughed so hard at that I spit soda all over the screen. hehehe Stop the presses folks. lol

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 6, 2009 01:27PM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-04 09:11, magic4u02 wrote:
The only thing is the Super x is not considered a suspension. It is considered a levitation. [/quote]
....but the thread does ask for the best levitation....though I admit that these bigger illusions aren't ideal for kids' parties.
Potty :)
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 6, 2009 11:22PM)
I have always had the school of thought that Donald has, but that's because the Super X has always been referred to as a suspension at, around, or near Abbott's which is very close to home for me.

I would really like to hear from this source that Donald names, "Encyclopedia of Suspensions and Levitations", if anyone owns or has access to one.

Additionally, most of the guys I've spoken with that make illusions refer to them as suspensions and are pretty firm on a levitation having to rise and decend to be called just that.
Message: Posted by: Potty the Pirate (Jul 6, 2009 11:57PM)
If there's nothing apparently holding up the floatee, it wouldn't be called a "suspension", surely?
Message: Posted by: magic4u02 (Jul 7, 2009 06:27AM)
I agree with doug. I think the problem lies in what we as magicians see versus what the audience sees. when you look at it and know how it is done, then it is clearly a suspension. However, if the audience sees nothing "suspending" the helper then it really shopuld not be seen as a suspension. Just my thoughts is all. I am sure we could go on and on over this. lol Regardless of definition, there are some great levitations and suspensions out there. You have to determine which work bets for you in the venues you work.

Kyle
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 8, 2009 06:14PM)
Rock out with your chair out Kyle! ;)
Message: Posted by: Michael Messing (Jul 8, 2009 06:44PM)
Okay, I'll throw out my thoughts here. I always considered anything in which the person floats up or down a levitation while anything where a person remains in the air in one place would be a suspension. My logic is that a person that doesn't float up or down is suspended in air, where as a person who is floating up and down is levitating.

Just my two cents.

Michael
Message: Posted by: spangles (Jul 9, 2009 01:48AM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-01 02:48, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I may start using Roger's Cloth of Invisibility, as it's funny and neat, plays better by far than In-flight, in my opinion.

[/quote]

You are a smart man Doug. This is simply the best IMHO.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 9, 2009 01:59AM)
My understanding is that what sets a levitation apart from a suspension is that a levitation is the moving up and down (or in other directions!) of a body. A suspension is someone being suspended in midair without movement. This is usually done by removing supports--as in the case of the super X or the flying carpet, which is really the same illusion--or the suspended object could be positioned by the magician into the suspended position, a la the broom suspension. (Hey, Kyle, you got your broom suspension? Have you been using it much?)

I guess you could then break down suspesions to be two types: one with no visible means of support--super X/carpet--and those with a visible means of support: chair suspension, and the Idian faker suspension.

Anyway, that's what I was taught. I got that levitation / suspension book Donald talked about. It's got great ideas some of which I don't undetstand how they could work.

BTW, zombie would be a levitation under these definitions.

Jim

Jim

Jim
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jul 9, 2009 05:09AM)
On page "v" all by its self, in the Encyclopedia of Suspensions & Levitations is the following quote:

[quote]
DEFINITION
"... A LEVITATION involves the raising into the air of a human being...while a SUSPENSION means the placing of a person in an impossible state if disequilibrium, and maintaining him there, sometimes without any visible means of support."

WILL DEXTER from "This is Magic"
[/quote]

Based on this definition, if a persons moves, "floating up and down", it is a levitation. Like the chair suspension, the Super X, and many variations of it are suspensions.

Posted: Jul 9, 2009 6:22am
The original post:
"Best Children's levitation in the living room parties?"

Strictly speaking there is no BEST "living room" levitation. (Floating up and down)

Setting aside the weight of the illusion, the extra trip to the car, speaking of suspensions, not levitations, the uniqueness of different home made suspensions, the chair suspension, in my opinion, is the best suspension for a birthday party.

Now, I like but haven't built the See-saw Suspension where the center fulcrum is pulled away. (Similar to a super-x but two children see-saw, then stand on the ends and the center is pulled back)

BTW, Potty the Pirates method of the Flying Carpet suspension is very good! I suspect it is an altered version of the original concept adding depth to the illusion, giving it a "floating" sensation.

Dennis

Posted: Jul 9, 2009 6:41am
Quote:

If I ever offer a chair suspension, it will be the one where both chairs are removed.



This is possible with the See-Saw suspension where the chairs "appear" to hold the ends. The center fulcrum is pulled back first, then one chair, than the other chair.

This can be found in "Do the Stuff That is You" Vol I, by Chris Caray
Message: Posted by: Zaprig1 (Jul 14, 2009 09:55AM)
Thanks for bringing "closure" so to speak to the great debate Dennis! The laws of Dexter have spoken! ;)