(Close Window)
Topic: Sadly, The Masked Moron is Finally in Malaysia...
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 29, 2009 12:12PM)
Yep, the whole new series...

Incredible what is being revealed is not being used against him in Court.

A sad day for Malaysian audiences, they get to lose that child-like wonder...

Just a matter of time I guess...

:(
Message: Posted by: Magicque (May 29, 2009 02:40PM)
Yes, sad day for you. I know it will come here too. And it will be my turn to cry...
Message: Posted by: Chezaday (May 29, 2009 03:30PM)
What gets me is that they are revealing other peoples work. In the last few episodes I saw a few illusions that were exclusively Magic Makers up in Canada. I'm sure Gerry Frenette did not give them permission to expose his creations. Same goes for Sterlini's version of the Disembodied Princess.

The show has no regard for the research and development that went into these illusions, not to mention any respect for the art of magic. We will survive .. it is just another slap in the face.

Steve
Message: Posted by: Magicque (May 29, 2009 03:54PM)
Hello Steve,
But that one was a HUGE slap in the face. I will take many years for people to forget what they saw.
Message: Posted by: Laszlo Csizmadi (May 29, 2009 05:06PM)
[quote]
On 2009-05-29 15:40, Magicque wrote:
Yes, sad day for you. I know it will come here too. And it will be my turn to cry...
[/quote]

Where are you located? If Canada than it was here already on the Rogers Cable.

Best,

Las
Message: Posted by: Magicque (May 29, 2009 06:40PM)
Québec Las!
Message: Posted by: Loyal R (May 30, 2009 05:03AM)
Thanks God! He is not on my Rogers Cable!
Message: Posted by: styck13 (May 30, 2009 08:32AM)
[quote]It will take many years for people to forget what they saw. [/quote]
Luckily there's not many people watching it. sure there are some and you'll run into them from time to time..but at least it's not on a REAL network. MyNetworkTv...come on...WHO?
Message: Posted by: Christopher Lyle (May 30, 2009 08:43AM)
Styck13 has a good point. I have found that between 10%-20% are actually watching the show.

With that said....

I was performing Zombie (an effect that he has exposed on the show) and after the show, I had one or two come up to me and say "I saw the MM on TV show us how that was done...but you do it differently and it confused us!"

PRESENTATION is EVERYTHING!!!!! My presentation fooled them...

Take that MM!
Message: Posted by: Magicque (May 30, 2009 10:38AM)
Christopher, I LOVE that comment!!!! Thanks to you! You make my day! Really!!!
Message: Posted by: TaylorReed (May 30, 2009 03:21PM)
I'm still doing twister and no one has ever commented on the fact that it was performed on that show....
I'm pretty sure that not many people really care about that type of show anymore.

It has no entertainment value.

We are doing around five to six shows a week in Branson and I'm not really feeling the pain like we did when it was on FOX around 10yrs ago...

Taylor
Message: Posted by: Kyle^Ravin (May 31, 2009 08:27AM)
Its in Singapore too...
Message: Posted by: ssucahyo (May 31, 2009 11:25AM)
Woah...it s getting closer to here....
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Jun 1, 2009 12:01PM)
Here in the Philippines, it will be featured on June 4, 8:00pm at the AXN Channel. I just saw the trailer today. An exposure of the De Kolta Chair, the Gamolo Levitation, Modern Buzz Saw, and a few others.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 1, 2009 12:21PM)
Same Channel here in Malaysia.

Funny as they also air Blaine and Mondo Magic... A few years back Keith Barry and Criss Angel.

I guess it's just about ratings.

:(
Message: Posted by: PaxMentis (Jun 1, 2009 03:33PM)
Perhaps we should follow the example of some magicians who got together a year or so ago at the Castle and decided to reveal the home address and telephone number on the web of Jack Abernathy at Fox who was the decision maker giving the "thumbs up" to a lot of the MM's series. From my sources, he was outraged that anyone who do that sort of thing to him. REALLY!
Message: Posted by: Magicque (Jun 1, 2009 06:36PM)
Do it Paxmentis! Do it!!!
Message: Posted by: voodoo (Jun 3, 2009 10:45AM)
If I'm not mistaken the masked magician series are playin too on axn
Message: Posted by: ssucahyo (Jun 7, 2009 03:05AM)
Already here...yes in AXN.
Message: Posted by: Magicque (Jun 7, 2009 08:07AM)
Is it watched by a lot of people on that channel?
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 8, 2009 12:51AM)
Yes, it it watched in 4 or 5 countries at the same time...

:(
Message: Posted by: j.i.s. (Jun 8, 2009 02:24AM)
I am very sure that AXN in yours countryes and other is not an important channel with a high rating ....There are other 5 or 6 channels and AXN is under important ratings...
Message: Posted by: ssucahyo (Jun 9, 2009 07:19AM)
AXN is a pay channel in Indonesia. Not too many peoples watched.
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (Jun 9, 2009 07:50AM)
Many enough watch that they mention it to me.

Non Magicians that is.

:(
Message: Posted by: Magicque (Jun 9, 2009 02:13PM)
The best thing we can do is not pay attention to it...if people talk to you about it, tell them it's not the way we do the trick, that today people are more aware of magic so we use a completly different and more clever way of doing every trick.

They talk to you about it because they know you are a magician...just change the look of your cabinets form the ones used by the &&??%$/$/$ MORON and nobody will ever notice something!!!
And if someone knows who is the MORON, beat the s--- out of him for me. Thanks.
;-)
Message: Posted by: ssucahyo (Jun 13, 2009 10:46PM)
Is still the old pal Valentino behnid the mask?
any ide who is he/she?
Thank you.
CC
Message: Posted by: Aroy (Jul 31, 2009 07:32AM)
So what's with those idiots who then put the same stuff on youtube!!!!

Now it is up on permanent record for all to see.
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Jul 31, 2009 08:31AM)
[quote]
On 2009-06-13 23:46, ssucahyo wrote:
Is still the old pal Valentino behnid the mask?
any ide who is he/she?
Thank you.
CC
[/quote]

I doubt that it is Valentino under the mask. At least Val had some chops. The new guy is terrible, from what I've seen of the show (which ain't much!).
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jul 31, 2009 08:34AM)
I love the idea of publishing the name and address of the Fox dude who approved the show. The same with the name and address of the MM.
One good solid and huge class action suit is needed to stop the madness.
On the other hand, there have been some who decided to get into magic after watching the MM. The transition from spectator to Magician is practiced every day at every shop in the world, and, even though the MM is exposure, I can't differentiate between him and anyone who sells magic.
The desire to watch the MM requires some degree of interest in magic, I mean, who watches the program?
What is the difference in magic for a price, vrs magic for free but watching the sponsors ads as your payment. Walking in the door to the magic shop is perhaps no different than tuning in the MM.
Not to defend the show at all, but I can rationalize it and accept it. It is also a great teaching device. The showmanship sucks, but some of the technique is useful if you want to learn.
I can remember in the 80's on News 4 New york, Chuck Scarborough or one of the other guys showed a silk vanish, and then held out his Th**b tip and said "this is how its done".
That never stopped the use of the tip and that was mainstream TV.
---------
Mohammed Ali used to buy magic at the magic conventions and at select shops. He just wanted to know the secret and then he showed the effects to his entourage and gave the magic away. My point is, we don't qualify the buyers of magic, dealers just sell to anyone who has the price of admission. That's why youtube has exposure, the magic sellers don't qualify the buyers and make them sign the oath in blood.
-----
Whether its one on one or on a TV show, exposure is exposure. Either keep your secrets to yourself or sell the effect at risk that a masked Moron will turn around and show everyone your secret. There is no solution.
Message: Posted by: Maloney (Jul 31, 2009 09:00AM)
Can't we do anything to stop the production of these shows? I mean surely we could nail him on one pattented illusion, couldn't we?
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Jul 31, 2009 02:02PM)
Can the mm expose illusions such as the cutting eddge or oregami ... it occures to me that these illusions are better protected by daniel summers and steinmeyer or I am worong
Message: Posted by: magicians (Jul 31, 2009 04:02PM)
[quote]
On 2009-07-31 15:02, dahih beik wrote:
Can the mm expose illusions such as the cutting eddge or oregami ... it occures to me that these illusions are better protected by daniel summers and steinmeyer or I am worong
[/quote]
If the MM actually bought the effect, he could expose it. And, if you owned it, you could expose it as well. There is no exposure "agreement" when buying most illusions. That would be a contractual thing and I believe enforce-able.
If the MM made his own version of someone elses effect, there could be some sort of theft of design IF the creator has protected himself enough AND has the money required to fight a patent infringement.
Heck, we can't even protect ourselves if someone actually "knocks" off the effect, and basically there is just no protection if MM just exposes it. The same is true if someone does an effect badly and expose a trick unintentionally.
The ONLY recourse we have is a campaign to have the public boycott the products advertised on the show. That would more than likely increase the shows presence and be counterproductive.
Message: Posted by: Magicque (Jul 31, 2009 06:46PM)
It's true and I get frustrated to think about it...
Can you believe that some people in the USA put McDonald's to justice because they get fat and when a moron exposes everyting on magic, nobody can't do anything...Bizarre world, isn't it???!!! ;-)
Message: Posted by: TheRaven (Aug 1, 2009 03:36PM)
Sadly, magic is a very unique situation that doesn't have a real parallel in other arts, disciplines or businesses. The key intellectual property (IP) is a secret shared by many people.

Existing US IP protection laws simply are not designed for this. Since it is a problem unique to magic (a tiny market segement), they probably never will be.

Short of having every purchaser of a magic trick sign a non-disclosure agreement (not practical for mass marketed items) there isn't a good legal tool to protect the secret. If there was, we wouldn't need the magician's code.
Message: Posted by: TheRaven (Aug 1, 2009 03:37PM)
Sadly, magic is a very unique situation that doesn't have a real parallel in other arts, disciplines or businesses. The key intellectual property (IP) is a secret shared by many people.

Existing US IP protection laws simply are not designed for this. Since it is a problem unique to magic (a tiny market segement), they probably never will be.

Short of having every purchaser of a magic trick sign a non-disclosure agreement (not practical for mass marketed items) there isn't a good legal tool to protect the secret. If there was, we wouldn't need the magician's code.
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Aug 1, 2009 04:25PM)
I would like to hear an ansewr from daniel s steinmeyer and bill smith from were I am planing to buy my next illusion wich will coast a fortion
Message: Posted by: dahih beik (Aug 1, 2009 04:29PM)
You have to pay a fee , and danniel s claims that his illusions are protected - I wicsh it is true - does it mean if somebody expose them hell be borought to court please tell me yes
Message: Posted by: LeeAlex2002 (Aug 5, 2009 03:58PM)
Unfortunately the first program that was on when we arrived in our hotel room in Beijing for the FISM convention was... Masked Magician! It seemed rather ironic, and the channel (AXN) really pumps it with adverts...
Message: Posted by: JVHarrison (Aug 5, 2009 07:45PM)
There is no effective way under US law to protect a magician's secrets. Certainly. with a patent, one can protect a knock-off of a prop for a limited period of time, but not the secret behind that prop (think about it, Apple could sue you if you manufactured a knock-off of the I-pod, but they would have no cause of action if you took one apart on national television and explained its inner workings).

The problem with an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) is that it always contains carveouts for information that is otherwise available to the general public. I can't think of an illusion that is so unique that the basic premise of its secret is not available to the public in one form or another.

One way to protect these things is to use the expense of a lawsuit to dissuade someone like the MM. Don't get me wrong, Steinmeyer, et. al. are unlikely to succeed in such an action (all the defense would have to do is indicate that anyone can ascertain the secret by examining the patent, or purchasing a particular book or set of plans, and the case would be dismissed), but the cost of defending it could be so enormous as to act as a real deterrent to exposure. I am a lawyer at a very large firm, and a legal bill of $50-100k for just a preliminary defense in a matter like this (assuming the person bringing the action has aggressive counsel) would not be uncommon.

The problem is that the cost of bringing such an action against the MM could well exceed all the profit that could be generated from licensing and/or building the illusion for years, so the idea of suing the MM doesn't hold up after an honest cost-risk analysis. I will say, however, that it is telling that the MM has not exposed origami. I suspect that fear of a lawsuit, and the related expense, may have prevented such an exposure (even though the MM probably would have prevailed in such a suit).

The other issue is that in any lawsuit the plaintiff has to prove damages; without damages, there is no cause of action. So what are a magician's damages from an exposure? One would have to prove that, due to a particular exposure, he or she gets less work as a magician. That's difficult, if not impossible to prove, and even if you could prove it, how do you quantify it? A builder might have a better argument, in that there might be less of a market for illusions that have been exposed on national television, but as I mentioned before, if a patent exists, that argument is a loser.

Which brings us to the crux of the matter. Other than bothering us, do exposures really hurt us? Can anyone honestly say that their pocketbook has been injured by the activities of the MM? The truth of the matter is that the general public is generally bored with magic secrets--only magicians truly care about secrets. Try this experiment: Find a layperson who has seen a recent episode of the MM, wait a month and then show that person clips of a real magician doing illusions that incorporate the principles exposed by the MM. My guess is that person would have little success in recalling and identifying the methods.

David Copperfield sells out just about everywhere he goes; Nathan Burton plays to capacity crowds every afternoon; Lance Burton extended his contract for six years, and yet the majority of the methods these illusionists use have been exposed by the MM. Writing about magician's secrets, Jim Steinmeyer once wrote that "Magicians guard an empty safe. . . . There are no real principles worthy of being cherished, only crude expediences." He goes on to make the point that what is most important about an illusion is not the secret, but in what the magician does to take such simple contrivances and turn them into miracles.

Lest I get skewered for this point of view, let me say that I understand people's emotional reaction to the MM's exposures and the sleazy manner in which he exploits things that aredear to us -- but aren't we wasting a lot of time and energy protecting an empty safe?
Message: Posted by: AttnPls (Aug 8, 2009 05:40PM)
Stop supporting FOX.
Message: Posted by: MagicErik (Aug 9, 2009 02:18AM)
What if whenever you buy something you have to agree with the magician's oath?

"As a magician I promise never to reveal the secret of any illusion to a non-magician, unless that one swears to uphold the Magician's Oath in turn. I promise never to perform any illusion for any non-magician without first practicing the effect until I can perform it well enough to maintain the illusion of magic."

Some sort of standard sentence that you have to agree with. And if you don't....

The last series of MM was some of the worst series ever, in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: 1bigbuddha (Oct 11, 2009 08:42PM)
Does anyone know if this show is being aired in Thailand? I haven't seen any comercials for it on English TV. I did see DVD's of the series for sale on one of the magic vendors carts on Sukhumvit road in BKK though.
Message: Posted by: Failed Magician (Nov 27, 2009 10:27PM)
From what I understand is that we have two kinds of magic shows: on stage and street magic or close-up. MM mostly revealed what magicians do on stage. This is really a kill as it will impact the business, carrier, and money from pro magicians. People will no longer go "Whoaaa!!", instead, they will go "Pffftt, saw it already on TV and I know how he did that".

This is a point I really don't get it. Does MM have a grudge against magicians? I mean, if he only reveal some tricks done in street magic, it would be less damaging as the people who watch the show will have small-or-close-to-zero chance to meet a magician that will do the same trick for them. Then heaps of magic tricks secrets would be still be kept away from being exposed to the public.

Even the kids here in Indonesia, some of them, go like "I watched the masked magician last night, now I know how he can cut a person into halves". For me, even I would never be able to perform it as I'm only a hobbyist, this kind of reaction really kills me in the heart :(

As for suing, I don't think it will work. Buying tricks is like buying a cooking recipe. Once you buy it, it's yours so you can basically do anything you want. You can make the food and give them for free, or teaching someone else how to make it, etc.

NDA sounds good but I don't think it will work with magic tricks, unless they will put a piece of NDA in every magic tricks out there in the market. And also, sometimes it depends on the attitude of our audience themselves. I mean, heck, I've watched some episodes of the MM, and if someone do the same tricks in front of me I won't go "I know your secret, I've watched MM".

I will keep appreciate it and giving out positive response. It takes a lot of practices and time to perform a trick. Most people are intrigued to know the secrets because for them, magicians are smarter that's why they can always fool their audience.

Some even already realize that some tricks rely on sleights, gimmicks or tools, but they can't figure it out. So by knowing the secret, the sleights, somehow it gives them a satisfaction that they're smart so at least there is one trick won't make a fool of them again next time. MM won't do any damage to me, I am only a teacher who performs magic tricks occasionally for students in class. Mainly are card and coin tricks.

But it cant be denied that MM already and will keep damaging a lot of pro-magician's carrier and business. There is nothing we can do to stop MM, unless they decide to stop airing it. Just my 2 cents.
Message: Posted by: eb02 (Nov 28, 2009 04:24AM)
It is running in Israel as well...every Friday 21:00 and rerun on Saturday.

Does anyone know how many episodes are there?
We spoke with the TV channel and they said it will be 10 chapters but they already show 13 chapters and we do not see the end.