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Topic: Peta vs. Ringling Bros.
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Oct 14, 2009 11:03PM)
I don't know if this has been posted or not......check it out.....JZ how much of this is needed?

http://www.ringlingbeatsanimals.com/?c=ringlingyt0709
Message: Posted by: rossmacrae (Oct 14, 2009 11:10PM)
(Yawn...) Again. Seems to be perpetual.

Excuse me, it's dinner time - I have to go eat an animal.
Message: Posted by: reese (Oct 15, 2009 12:50AM)
I never wanted to submit a reply to this topic; but....

I've seen first-hand elephants severely mistreated by Ringling ( And I really wished I hadn't)

After 50 years of surviving marginally as a human, I am for animal rights.

Just shoot me if you don't agree. And then eat me for the protein.

You schmucks.

Love, Tim
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Oct 15, 2009 03:11AM)
Tim, that's why I was asking Jim.....he's had experience working with elephants.
Message: Posted by: MagiciennesUnlimited (Oct 15, 2009 10:35AM)
Ok.

Animal mistreatment is wrong. I will never argue that.

However, the wrongs of PETA are far worse.

Watch P&T's Bulls@@it episode on PETA. The organization is absolutley disgraceful, with thousands of followers, completely oblivious that they support this evil.

I hate them.
Message: Posted by: thegreatnippulini (Oct 15, 2009 11:35AM)
In their defense, they had every right to outcry the horrible cruel murder of a fly caused by the current POTUS.
Message: Posted by: MagiciennesUnlimited (Oct 15, 2009 01:10PM)
Nips, your posts always make me smile! lol

http://youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dl9ijLulwUTY&v=l9ijLulwUTY

...for anyone looking for a link to the episode.
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Oct 15, 2009 01:29PM)
Todd Ray
That video is a Joke...To Reese and Peta it looks like abuse...To me it is the same thing I see every day at the Grocery store or at Wal-mart...A wife naggin on her Husband....What did he do to the Elephant other than make the Elephant think the same thing a Husband thinks?...Geez what a pain in the @ss!...I am sure that fella learned a lesson from PETA....Quit bein a Pest...cause now everyone knows it!...in fact, if he's smart he will thank PETA for pointin outhow annoying He can Be!....But Did He Hurt or abuse the Elephant?...NO....
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Oct 15, 2009 01:32PM)
On a Further note to Reese...are you educated on what qualifys as abuse...or Perhaps are you assuming what you saw is abuse based on what PETA tells you?...
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Oct 15, 2009 01:45PM)
Todd Ray

I was in my 6-legged steer's pen the other day pickin up processed Hay & grain and ole Sonny stepped on my Foot, I said "God-D@mn Sonny" as I bopped him in the Head to get him to move off my foot...Some Lady knawin on a Cheeseburger told me that was abuse...I told her "In your opinion maybe, Your eatin yours!"...She shut up and moved on to the Chupacabra...sheepishly Imight add...
Message: Posted by: MagiciennesUnlimited (Oct 15, 2009 02:03PM)
Agreed Curator!

My wrestler\boxer dad raised us on a horse farm for a while. Our arabian stallion bucked my then 8 year old brother off onto the paddock fence.

Animals are not stupid. They test boundries like any of us.

Dad right hooked the horse in the kisser. It got off it's knees, gave it's head a shake, and never acted violently to a human again.

Sometimes we all need a shot in the heads, animals and humans.

This isn't evil. It's nature.
Message: Posted by: T-RAY (Oct 15, 2009 03:45PM)
Jim, that's what I was wondering. Elephants are big animals with thick skin......I don't want peta to try to destroy the Circus. Everyone needs to understand that many people, in politically powerful positions, do not know what they speak of.......however, they can alter our world with their ignorance. Someone on the circus side should be combatting this image instead of paying off settlements. I had a woman tell me that my Two Headed Turtles were going to drown in 2 inches of water.....I had to remind her that they are water turtles and their shell was sticking out of the water (they could just lift their heads right out of the water)! She saw a moment when one head wanted to go one way...and the other head wanted to go another way.......the struggle to her looked like drowning. Later, I got a visit from an animal control officer who said they had received a report of animal cruelty! When the officer saw the turtles, she laughed and said she knew it had to be a joke. It was aggravating though to have to deal with the headache and nervousness......I just stood my ground and demonstrated the way I treat our animals and refused to hear the lies. Ringling had better work on their animal rights image....or they will just have to keep paying out or shutting down the old circus.
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Oct 15, 2009 04:21PM)
Ringling is Holding thier ground, they are in a Industry changing Lawsuit right now...the problem is AR groups have a Load of money...and different Factions can file suits in different parts of the country, it takes Deep pockets to defend oneself...Imagine if 10 people filed 10 different suits against you and your turtles...Think what the Lawyers fees would be to prove your innocent...even if you won...the suits would keep coming till your pockets ran dry....sad isn't it...
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Oct 16, 2009 04:12AM)
We lost out years back with the underground investigation into the Chipperfield scenario.

The US has a much more liberal attitude to Circus which will backfire if the anti`s get fodder to use against it. This has finished the animal acts over here for good.

I had a massive run in with the RSPCA when an officer from Brighton tried to charge me with abuse to a Python (His claim that backing track music was causing anxiety to the snake was upheld by the Brighton area Council) I let them hang themselves up to the last minet before explaining that Monty couldn't hear, only pick up on vibration.

They checked it out,,,claim got dismissed,,,no charges made.

No apology,,,the Brighton Inspector (Mr Mead) Remains in his well paid job,,,all the paperwork to the case vanished overnight !

Three months later we had a 10pm house call by the RSPCA, they claimed it was a random check !!! (At 10pm) To see our vavarium set ups for the reptiles.
An hour later we were given a clean bill of health and commended on our care.

I followed up with a request for their findings to be put into print as an acolade for us. They refused !

Complaints to them by us followed,,,no replies, no returned calls, just a big silence.

We dropped all animal involvement during the following season as the first three gigs were stalked by the RSPCA.

Chipperfields lost all due to the antis,,,the problem is if anything is given as amunition to these idiots, they will be believed rightly or wrongly.....The nanny state culture is with us and its here to stay. Only a matter of time before the US shows will be as in the UK and my definition of Circus (With Animals) Will vanish forever.

Ken.
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 16, 2009 05:29AM)
I love the video.

"Even bees are persecuted by the man!"

BEES!!! Brilliant!
Message: Posted by: Fitz (Oct 16, 2009 12:37PM)
T-Ray if you are worried about being harassed in the future you should install a cctv system. My solutions to a lot of problems is security cameras. I have not seen your place yet but I assume you could install cameras on any living exhibits you have. Most DVRs will record and save the video for around 2 weeks. If someone complains about you and the officials come in you can show them the "tape". If you need an installer let me know it was what I did for a living before I got this dream job.

Fitz
Message: Posted by: KBLV (Oct 18, 2009 02:49AM)
As a Ringling Clown in '86, I rode one of Gunther Gebel Williams' elephants for 10 minutes during every show. I never witnessed one single act of cruelty toward ANY of the animals on the show.
Message: Posted by: reese (Oct 18, 2009 06:06PM)
I'm not educated. What I saw with my eyes is translated by my brain. I could very well be mistaken. And... I swat flies & gnats & skeeters. And... I support the rights of animals. I've seen too much suffering in my old age not to have an opinion.

Best to y'all,
Tim
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Oct 18, 2009 08:07PM)
I think this whole thing is sensationalized beyond belief. Are there bad trainers.sure very few. But unless you have trained animals or elephants you have no idea what they are doing when they correct and animal. If you let the animal continue to do as he pleases, you will have no end of trouble. Like a child if you correct and love it, the animal will respond.

Peta very carefully chosen their web name to make it like like Ringing Bros. was involved with the site. They lost that suit in court. But quickly came up with another close name that confuses people.

Here in Ohio, we have a state issue on the ballot next month that will create basically an animal welfare board. Basically, it is an effort to out maneuver PETA before they drive the the family farms out of business. The board will consist of family farmers, vets, Ohio State Ag. professors, humane society people and a good cross section of people who understand animals. I certainly hope this passes. It does not seem to be a heavily regulated goverment agency thing but more of a common sense approach.

Back to the issue of elephants, I suggest that you read some of the articles written by Circus people in the know. Buckles Blog by Bill "Buckles" Woodcock is one of the best on elephant. Bill has forgotten more about elephants that most people could ever know. Check it out and see what elephant training is really about.

Richard
Message: Posted by: The Curator of the Unusual (Oct 19, 2009 01:09AM)
Bravo..Richard!...Buckles Blog is a must veiw...
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 19, 2009 05:10AM)
I've just had a look at the Peta website (link in first post) and the whole thing just seems to stink of elephant s4!t.

The first line on the About Ringling Bros. page says: "Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus is known for its long history of abusing animals. In 1929, John Ringling ordered the execution of a majestic bull elephant named Black Diamond after the elephant killed a woman who had been in the crowd as he was paraded through a Texas city."

HELLO!!!

The elephant KILLED a woman!

What was John Ringling meant to do? "Oh sorry sir for trampling your wife, the mother of your children, to death with my huge f*****g elephant. But just look how majestic he is. Isn't he just a darling? Here, have some free tickets for the show tonight. You'll probably pick up a single Mom while your there and you'll soon forget about her... By-the-way, did you notice how majestic my elephant is?"

B******s!!!!!

He only did the same to the elephant as happens now if a dog attacks someone.

I can't believe that Peta are allowed to write this stuff.

In another article they refer to the Ringling employees as "goons". Are these people for real?

On a seperate note, does anyone know if the trial that is much talked about on the site actually come to a conclusion yet? Peta said that a verdict was expected some time during the summer. Has this happened? I can't find anything online about it, only that Ringling were in court. And I imagine that if the case was found against Ringling that Peta would have jumped all over it by now.

I did find an article from CNN written March 18 2009 that says the closing arguments had been made.

So just wondering if the case was now closed.
Message: Posted by: actorscotty (Oct 19, 2009 12:03PM)
Gotta weigh in about PETA, I of course don't like the abuse of anyone or anything, but as a radio and tv newsman for a lot of years as a day job (45 in all), I saw the following type stats often
.Authorities in Ahoskie, North Carolina dropped a disturbing bombshell yesterday with the news that they had charged two employees of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty. PETA's Andrew Cook and Adria Hinkle were arrested late Wednesday night after police saw them dump bags containing seven dead puppies and 11 other dead animals in a grocery store's dumpster. Their PETA-owned van, seized by police, contained another 13 animal bodies.
there are many more similar news stories. Heres a headline:, PETA has killed over 21000 dogs, cats, and other siezed companion animals....
her is a link to the chart;
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petasdirtysecret.cfm
Message: Posted by: willhunter (Oct 19, 2009 12:45PM)
That website makes me wonder who is it's sponsor. Seems like a corp. backed shill site to me. Not, that the info is false or untrue. PETA has run off the rails into nut-dom often. I especially found their "sea kitten" campaign nutty.

However, I love Elephants, but personally don't believe that Elephants and Big Cats belong on traveling displays. They are wild large animals that need the room and specialized care that many Zoos and Reserves provide. I am not trying to make animal circuses illegal. I love the circus arts, I only question if the road is the best place for these animals. It is just my "layman's" opinion - I am just a Magish anyways.



[quote]
On 2009-10-19 13:03, actorscotty wrote:
Gotta weigh in about PETA, I of course don't like the abuse of anyone or anything, but as a radio and tv newsman for a lot of years as a day job (45 in all), I saw the following type stats often
.Authorities in Ahoskie, North Carolina dropped a disturbing bombshell yesterday with the news that they had charged two employees of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty. PETA's Andrew Cook and Adria Hinkle were arrested late Wednesday night after police saw them dump bags containing seven dead puppies and 11 other dead animals in a grocery store's dumpster. Their PETA-owned van, seized by police, contained another 13 animal bodies.
there are many more similar news stories. Heres a headline:, PETA has killed over 21000 dogs, cats, and other siezed companion animals....
her is a link to the chart;
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petasdirtysecret.cfm
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Rick West (Oct 19, 2009 01:53PM)
Photo of Tusko and Black Diamond taken in 1920s...
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Oct 19, 2009 02:01PM)
Its like doggy poo,,its everywhere !!

BBC News 5pm today <>>>>> Investigation into the activities of a South UK Zoo,,, Believed to be supplying tigers to the Circus industry (No prizes for guessing who brought this to the attention of the RSPCA !).
Message: Posted by: ReggieB (Oct 19, 2009 08:34PM)
I think every cause needs its sensationalists to an extent. brings attention to their cause, Michael moore, rush limbaugh...they prompt people to become informed themselves (in the best case scenerios), in the worst they are taken as truth spouters, which they aren't. while I respect anyone who fully devotes themselves to the cause its everyones responsibility to find the truth in the sensationalism.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Oct 19, 2009 08:42PM)
I just read my White Tops (Circus Fans of America) which had an interesting article on this whole PETA thing. There are couple of points that are interesting.

CNN aired part of the PETA tape with a Peta professional spokesman talking. These people are constantly arguing this scripted arguments. CNN suspected the tape had been severely edited as an amateur circus fan to respond to the allegations.

This person, Gary Payne, pointed out that if these actions were so terrible why did they sit on the tapes for months. If someone saw a crime committee, would they wait months to tell the police. If the animals are routinely beaten as suggested by PETA, why had Mr. Payne, who visits many circuses before, during and after performances, never seen any such abuse. This video was allegedly shot in May and held until August. It seems the main purpose of PETA is propaganda to raise money.

Ringling's elephants have been inspected over 60 times in the past six months. All animals were found to be in good health.

I suggest that some people start looking at this realstically. FISM has had suggestions made to it that it eliminate the use of live animals in contests. That means no doves, rabbits or anything else.

This threat is real by a bunch of extremists who want to eliminate the use of animals in all public performances.

If the chance arises to see a circus or other public performance of animals, I suggest you look into how you can help support these performers. it is in all of our best interests, whether you use animals or not.

Richard
Message: Posted by: just_larry (Oct 28, 2009 03:07AM)
Thanks everybody for weighing in on this issue!

Though I wish they would go away!

I was with Families and Circus Fans on the Monday night after the show in Cleveland, we watched the animals leave the building to go to their train cars right after the last show!
The Circus Fan members, were cussed out, yelled at, and much much more!
They were older folks, the fans, and had not, and did not, even say a word!
Completely unprovoked the activists saw their circus jackets and chose them as targets!
it was completely unbelievable......
....and all of this mer feet and inches of dozens of children!!!
they continued yelled profanity as we, and the random families walked away!

As for the "tape" realize this
They claim was 6 months of hidden footage!
If they had more than the less than 3 minutes of actual footage, then they would show it!
But they didn't, and they don't!
(also they admit to having edited it and added sound effects to enhance the video, so nice of them to do that!)
6 months of hidden footage edited down to 3 minutes, huh?
I bet if I secretly videod anybody on this board, remember secretly for 6 months night and day everywhere you went, at home, grocery, playing online, on the phone etc...
and edited it down to 3 minutes , I could make you look like the worlds worst person!
Tell me I am wrong!

Last but not least, the best thing I can ever say to combat this nonsense is...
in almost EVERY market, we have the Animal Open House!
and hour and a half before show time, you can come and view our animals right where they stay, and play all day on the lot!
it is free with your ticket to the show (which can be as cheap as $12!)
come and see for your self how we take care of our animals!

My 2 cents!
Larry
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Oct 28, 2009 06:57AM)
Bravo Larry.

Write this up and send it to Circus Report or the White Tops.

You are right about the age. Most of the Circus Fans are retirees in their late 70's or 80's. I can just imagine the yuppie activists attacking and taunting this people. Kind of like abusing your grandparents.

Richard
Message: Posted by: Harley Newman (Oct 28, 2009 08:32AM)
It doesn't seem like "respect for all living beings".

Now we know their agenda is secretly ageist.
Message: Posted by: critter (Nov 9, 2009 10:23AM)
The same PETA with the highest euthenasia percentage of animal shelter in the country? One that exceeds the national average by 80%? The same PETA whose president said that she wished every US cow would contract hoof and mouth disease so they wouldn't have to live in captivity?
Yup, they're rational.