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Topic: Instructions for creating your own elastic thread loops
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jun 12, 2003 12:01AM)
Due to the demand I got from an offer in another thread, I am posting these instructions on tying your own thread loops. (I will not get into any uses of thread loops, as this is not about trick exposure.)

Your source of elastic might be a commercially purchased thread (like Ben Harris's excellent ultra elastic thread, as an example. [url]www.wowbound.com[/url]) You can also get the elastic from the source Michael Ammar suggested on his thread videos ([url]www.ammarmagic.com[/url].)

Or, if you also do the Kundalini rising, you can use that thread and strip out smaller threads.

For a great source of elastic thread, Kundalini thread, and reels, check out Craig Dickson's WizardCraft shop: [url]http://www.wizardcraft.com/thread.htm[/url]

Tip: Buy the 1,000 foot spool of Kundalini type elastic and use it as your source for elastic for the rest of your life for only $10!

Okay, so you have the source for your thread. Snap off a piece 12 to 18" long (this is much longer than you need, but makes life easier when you are starting.) Attach some putty or tape to the ends, so you can keep track of the ends.

You should have an idea how big a loop you desire [i]before[/i] you start, so you know what end product will be satisfactory.

Okay, now simply follow this picture, and if you have questions, please ask :)

[img]http://www.stagetwomagic.com/loopknots.jpg[/img]

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: thimblerig (Jun 12, 2003 01:54AM)
Guy,
Clearly a lot of folks were interested in your technique and tips and I was one of them. Thanks for the explanation and clear photographs! I'd be just as interested in knowing how you drew the pics/knots so well digitally and what software you used. Great work!
Cordially,
tr
:cool:
Message: Posted by: Bernard Sim (Jun 12, 2003 02:16AM)
Thanks for the post!
Message: Posted by: schmitty65 (Jun 12, 2003 11:39AM)
Very helpful post, thanks.
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jun 12, 2003 11:45AM)
Thank you for the kind words.

I used an 18" length of 0.25" wide ribbon on a sheet of beige foam (craft foam)for illustration.

I colored one end of the ribbon (about 6" or so) with a silver sharpie, so it would stand out from the other end ever so slightly. It's most visible in step 5.

I then took macro (close-up) shots with my Canon Powershot A60 - and resized, clarified, edited, and captioned in Adobe Photoshop.

In total, it was about 15 minutes of work, but much easier than trying to assemble precise language steps for a wide variety of readers.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: thimblerig (Jun 13, 2003 12:47AM)
Guy,
Very slick. Somehow I thought the images were all digitally drawn. Thanks for the info, and the insight on providing it for a wide variety of readers...5 pictures are worth 5000 words...in assorted languages.
tr
:cool:
Message: Posted by: Jemy (Jun 13, 2003 05:06AM)
Thanks very much, your knoting method is excellent. :righton:
Message: Posted by: Dave Le Fevre (Jun 13, 2003 06:25AM)
Guy, thanks for taking the time to share your skill and experience with us.

I appreciate it.

Dave
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Jun 13, 2003 07:59AM)
I nominate Guy Savoie to write and photo/illustrate
all magic trick instruction sheets !

Thanks for taking the time to share this and doing so with such clarity.
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jun 13, 2003 10:27AM)
Again, thank you all for the kind words.

Jemy - I cannot take credit for the knot - it is a standard for many fishermen who need to tie line that normally slips. My grandfather used to call it a "self-binding knot," although I am sure it has a proper name I do not know.

In the interest of completeness, I should also mention that Craig Dickson also teaches this knot in his lecture for his "Kundalini" type rising card effect (which I prefer over the original namesake, btw.)

Since I'd been using it for a long time before I saw Craig's lecture, it is a standard knot, and it is not a key element in Craig's routine, I am comfortable sharing it.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: Jemy (Jun 15, 2003 06:05AM)
Thanks very much for all this interesting information. I will feel less idiot tonight :)
Message: Posted by: Zap (Jun 15, 2003 08:43AM)
Great post. Wizardcraft is a great resource. You will have to color the elastic thread Craig sells. A Sharpie works good, make sure you stretch the elastic and THEN color with the Sharpie. An easier way than tying the knot is to superglue the connection together.
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jun 15, 2003 10:43AM)
Zap - If you split the elastic thin enough, color is a minimal problem. At least for my uses/performing conditions.

Also, when coloring thread/elastic, I prefer Pantone Tria markers. The color selection is [i]much[/i] better.

Depending on my needs, I often turn to the following pantone colors (digging out the pens): 2726, 4525, and 470.

I've experimented with the superglue method, but I found the glued area distracting, and often more visible than a knot - I guess I'm just used to the "no extra cost, tie a simple knot" method.

Your mileage may vary. :D

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: Zap (Jun 15, 2003 11:54AM)
Guy,
Thanks for the info. You really are giving away a lot of the real work. I've been splitting my elastic to about the same thickness as the Mesiga loops, which is thicker than the Harris Ultra elastic. I'll check into the Pantone markers, thanks for the numbers. Do you stretch them out and then color? With a Sharpie, if you color the unstretched elastic it tends to flake off when the elastic is stretched. I'm certainly not against the knot method, I just have trouble doing it. I guess I need to practice more (and get better eyesight).

Oh, one more thing. Have you guys seen the new Ties product advertised by Penguin Magic? It's called a system for making your own loops, including the elastic, a video, and "the equipment." All for $99.95! Here's the URL: http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=551
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jun 15, 2003 10:15PM)
Zap -

I usually don't color loops unless I know I'm working in an extra bright area, and when I do, I do stretch them a little. I stretch them over the marker tip, and pull the thread over the tip of the marker - so it's not nearly fully extended, but stretched a little.

Actually, the Ties product was what prompted me to post this thread, offering a cheap method (although I've no idea of the contents and procedures of the Ties system, which could well be a better method.)

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: purpulhaze (Jun 19, 2003 12:31PM)
I'm curious to know if this is the type of loop that is used to levitate objects around your body. I've been trying to find material on this but not sure where to get it. I did get Jon Leclaire's Who's Afraid of Invisible Thread but it really wasn't what I was looking for. Can you please tell me the type of effect you get from these loops and if you know the type of effect I'm looking for.
Message: Posted by: Zap (Jun 19, 2003 10:43PM)
Loops aren't really for levitating objects around your body. Check out Steve Fearson's Hook-up.
Message: Posted by: purpulhaze (Jun 20, 2003 08:37AM)
[quote]
On 2003-06-19 23:43, Zap wrote:
Loops aren't really for levitating objects around your body. Check out Steve Fearson's Hook-up.
[/quote]

I have Steve Fearson's Floating Cig and Area 51 but haven't really messed with it because I don't smoke and Area 51 would be done at night or dark situations. Could I possibly float a empty coke can with his set-up? I will definitely take another look at his videos.
Message: Posted by: Zap (Jun 23, 2003 06:33PM)
The most common other thing to float with the Fearson hookup is a candy like a Lifesaver. I think a Coke can is too heavy.
Message: Posted by: Shadow Dancer (Jun 24, 2003 06:54PM)
Awsome! Thanks heaps, I've always had trouble with tying my threads, this has made it way simpler. :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: rezamalek (Jul 4, 2003 03:19PM)
I think I'll use this and save 100 dollars.
Message: Posted by: Doomo (Jul 15, 2003 11:31AM)
Actually the T.I.E.S. setup is WELL worth it IF you use loops a lot. The advantage is that you get mega amounts of proper thread, (already spooled) and that you can knock off loops of just about any size in about...35 seconds from start to finish. I just timed myself. But if you just want an occaissional loop, then do what you are already doing...Just my 2 cents worth.
Message: Posted by: BlakeBlair (Aug 6, 2003 11:09AM)
Wow , what a great post !

Thanks GUY



bb :firedevil:
Message: Posted by: Evan Williams (Aug 6, 2003 11:26AM)
Thank you for a very nice post!
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Aug 8, 2003 02:17AM)
You are all welcome - I'm glad it was useful.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: dynamite (Aug 10, 2003 12:24PM)
Guy, can you mention some great effects using loops? Would appreciate it, I've had very little experience with loops you know.

Thanks a lot.

All the best!

Dynamite
:bikes:
Message: Posted by: danielhunley (Aug 23, 2003 08:42PM)
By the way, Fearson's hookup can float anything from ballpoint pens, to dollar bills. I use it for most of my floating purposes.


THANX for the great post:D
Message: Posted by: brianmayo (Aug 26, 2003 12:20AM)
This is A LOT easier! Thanks much!

Brian
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 16, 2003 12:14PM)
Here's one I'll share with ya...

Sulky "Smoke" invisible, #232, comes in 440 yd spools and is imported from Italy. It's like fishing line, and from a short distance, if you have a busy-patterned shirt, and/or background, it cannot be seen. Take a black Magic Marker and zebra-stripe it before using. Turn your head to the left, and stick out your right elbow. Twice the distance from your chin to elbow, is the right length, and tie a loop.

Do the one-point method, and it's a killer effect with soda cans, silks, and if you use the Astrosphere, well, you can drop the cloth, and make the ball go from hand to hand before wrapping up the routine.

Glad to not have to share this in the "open" forum... :bg:

Doug
Message: Posted by: 12345 (Sep 20, 2003 07:40PM)
Fearson hook is is awesome. I smoke and use that at the campus bars and our pubs.... I actually got T.V. exposure for Fearson's floating cig....

You gotta try it.... don't even smoke, or like Bill Clinton... don't inhale... it's a shame you havent tried it... tisk tisk
(at least get creative and float a life saver or bubble wand or something)

I bought that a few years ago and always always love performing that trick.. but when I bought it it cost $20. Now he's vitually giving it away for $5. I wish it was more expensive then not a lot of people would know it, hehehe
Message: Posted by: Lou Hilario (Sep 21, 2003 04:02AM)
I have the Losander DVD on The Art of Levitation Vol. 1 & 2. It came with some elastic threads and four black elastic loops. What surprised me was that the elastic loops did not have any knots on them at all. I wonder how these were made?
Message: Posted by: Budihaha (Oct 8, 2003 11:43PM)
Just got the elastic thread source, stripped it, and made several loops. But I just realized that single elastic thread is very fine and break easily. So how much threads do you use for a good loop? And how do you count it?
;)

Regards,

Budi Ha Ha
Message: Posted by: Namzyr (Nov 14, 2003 06:43PM)
I just worked for weeks to work up my 50 posts to get in here, and boy was it worth it!

Thanks for the great tying instructions. Did you know that Loops are $15 a pack at Tannen's?

Of course, that's what mail-order vendors are for!

Now all I need is to decide what the best source for the thread.

Any suggestions?
Message: Posted by: Zap (Nov 26, 2003 08:36PM)
http://www.wizardcraft.com

[quote]
On 2003-11-14 19:43, Namzyr wrote:
I just worked for weeks to work up my 50 posts to get in here, and boy was it worth it!

Thanks for the great tying instructions. Did you know that Loops are $15 a pack at Tannen's?

Of course, that's what mail-order vendors are for!

Now all I need is to decide what the best source for the thread.

Any suggestions?
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: altoni (Nov 26, 2003 09:13PM)
Guy,

Thank you for putting in the time and effort. Very much appreciated.

Al
Message: Posted by: Turk (Dec 3, 2003 02:33AM)
Guy, and all others,

Thanks for an excellent thread and all of the info and willingness to share.

Regarding the T.I.E.S. system, I understand that it originally came with white IT. Is that correct? And, does anyone know if you can now buy the system with the large supply of black IT? And, I assume that since loops are being made, the loops are being made with elastic IT. Is that a correct assumption?

Thanks for the info.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Dr. TORA (Dec 3, 2003 03:00AM)
Turk,
IMHO the information you request is already present in the above posts. Maybe you have missed them. :angel: :angel: :angel:
Message: Posted by: Turk (Dec 4, 2003 03:55AM)
[quote]
On 2003-12-03 04:00, TORA wrote:
Turk,
IMHO the information you request is already present in the above posts. Maybe you have missed them.[/quote]
Tora,

You are partially correct; the prior posts do indicate that the TIES system is elastic IT. Chalk that portion of my question up to the lateness of the hour (3:33 A.M.) and "Brain Fade". Sorry.

Actually, that portion of my question was an afterthought. My main question was trying to ascertain whether or not the TIES system now comes with black IT.

And, as long as I am renewing that portion of my question, I'll also follow up and ask (from any of the people who have purchased the TIES system) for a "strength" evaluation of the TIES elastic IT. Is it comparable to Wizardcraft's elastic IT (both the black and the clear versions)?

Thanks for the info.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Aperazor (Dec 28, 2003 07:39AM)
I know this link has been referred to before but just in case someone reading this thread has not visited the site, Ron Jaxon has a forum with some good info on all the above items:

[url]http://www.jaxonmagic.com/product.html[/url]

Sorry if everybody already knew that.
Happy New Year
Nick Zender
Message: Posted by: Chout (Dec 28, 2003 05:03PM)
Awesome post. I will definitely use this knot. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Jerry the Great (Jan 1, 2004 01:28PM)
It's so nice to have someone share a clever method without wanting to paid an arm and a leg for it. I applaud your effort.
Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan P. (Jan 11, 2004 11:25AM)
An easy method (that I use) for the first knot is to (excuse my English) thread the two ends of the IT-loop into a needle. (for doing this, you need to thread a buckle of knitting thread in the needle, then thread your IT into the buckle and make it go trhough the eye of the needle. Hope it's clear)
Then, holding the loop in your left hand, turn around your left first finger with the needle (and the two IT ends), and then pass the needle between the thread and your finger. Remove the finger, and you have your loop with a knot tying it (first knot of the first post of this topic.)
Quite difficult when not native-speaker...
Jonathan.
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Mar 24, 2004 04:05PM)
Threading it through the knot (in figure 2) one more time is easier and faster than trying to tie the ends together.
Message: Posted by: pepijn (Apr 17, 2004 04:43PM)
I've tried the method explained in the first post in this topic and, as with my traditional method I find it so frustrating when you break it at the last second, or when you shorten the ends....grr.

but who cares, It's for fun isn't it!!!

thanks for sharing!
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Apr 18, 2004 09:10PM)
Wow -

I'm stunned this topic continues to stay active. Thanks again for all the kind words.

Just a few brief comments, if I may.

pepijn - You might try practicing with regular thread a few dozen times to get the feel for it. It might help a little. I only break 1 out of 10 or so when working on 'em, and it only takes me about 15 seconds to tie one, so it's not too frustrating with a little practice.

KingStarDog - while using a single knot where you go through the hole twice is a good knot, if you are using it for the kundalini style card rise, where the elastic is thicker and under some serious tension, that knot can slip, and you'll lose your loop. A self binding knot is safer.

Enjoy all!

--- Guy

UPDATE: May 7, 2004

I received a used T.I.E.S. system, and I've had a few days to experiment with it.

In my opinion, it is a good approach, [i]especially[/i] if you have a hard time working with IT by feel.

It's a straightforward system, and I had played with developing a similar mechanism in the past, although this is clearly more evolved than my experiments.

Since this was a loaner, I will be returning it, and I won't likely buy my own. I don't think it gives me more than the knot I described here. Additionally, I can tie these without looking, while watching TV, etc.

However, do I recommend it? A qualified yes.

If you use loops quite a bit and want to save money in the long run, [i]and[/i] you can't get the knack of the approach in this thread, then T.I.E.S. should be a good investment for you.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: C.J. (Aug 7, 2004 01:29AM)
[quote]On 2003-06-15 11:43, GuySavoie wrote:
...I've experimented with the superglue method, but I found the glued area distracting, and often more visible than a knot ...[/quote]

As have I! :) Thanks for this knotting tip (shame it took me over a year to find it!!).
Message: Posted by: joef90 (Aug 11, 2004 05:43AM)
I lost interest in loops after hamfistidley going through my first pack (to expensive).But now I am inspired to try again with this cheap homemade source!If you are still use the Café Guy ,thanks that was a real gem!
Message: Posted by: Jonathan P. (Aug 11, 2004 06:15AM)
I mentionned (in the secret sessions forum devoted to thread work) a nice elastic thread source. Yhe post is entitled "elastic thread source" (I think.)
Jonathan.
Message: Posted by: rmoraleta (Oct 8, 2004 02:18PM)
Tied my first loops but with a different method. The method I use is the one Tony Clark teaches on his Behind The Seams video.

Aside from this, I used a styropor, wax and some push pins.

It works!
Message: Posted by: jmsilhy (Oct 29, 2004 02:55PM)
I know this thread is kind of old, but I have an additional tip that some of you might use. After you tie the loop (or loops) put them around a paper cup. Once there, it's much easier to run the tip of a sharpie over it and without painting yourself. Then just put your hand in the opening of the cup and just slide the loop into position and you're ready to perform. BTW, thanks a lot for this amazing thread GUY!!! Now I can practice some routines without it hurting so much when I break one loop... ;)
Message: Posted by: Allan Olive (Jan 19, 2005 11:47AM)
I just attended the SCAM convention in Columbia SC and needless to say it was great. Losander gave a lecture that just blew me away. Watching what he was able to do with loops has really piqued my curiosity. This post will save me a ton of money with all of the loops I am sure to break along the way. Just wanted to say thanks.
Message: Posted by: wthierry (Jan 28, 2005 10:12PM)
I purchased the elastic from WIZARDCRAFT, but I can't seem to split it. Can someone give me some tips on how to best split it?
Message: Posted by: Carron (Jan 29, 2005 09:53AM)
Wthierry, the thread from Craig is really good quality stuff and extremely reasonably priced.

To split it, hold the end of the thread between your finger and thumb with around 15mm protruding. Then, with your other hand, grab the end of this small protrusion, stretch it out, and let it snap back. Doing this a nuber of times will fray the end for you and from there you can separate the fine individual threads.
Hope this helps.

Tom
Message: Posted by: wthierry (Jan 29, 2005 09:04PM)
Got it ! Thanks. Just as an FYI, I also found the same thread I bought from craig at a lure shop here in san francisco. So its out there and available.
Message: Posted by: magician_hindoo (Jan 31, 2005 04:46AM)
Friends,

Spend some money with Losander and buy the loops sold on his website.

"He is a good guy, spend some money with him" - as per Tony Hassini on the International Magician's Society DVD "Best of the Best".

He is the master of levitation - for his creativity he deserves a bit of our support. Spend a few dollars and buy his DVD and loops asap - if you are interested in levitation effects!!!!

:righton:
Message: Posted by: AndrewMann (Jan 31, 2005 09:23AM)
IT loops certainly are a great invention but can be expensive as they don't last very long. Making your own is probably better but can be fiddly which is why I was pleased to see a device released on the UK market which makes it far easier to make your own. If you check out 'ST.El.Th. Jig' on the hotlist page on Alakazam - http://www.alakazam.co.uk/acatalog/Hot_List_1.html#a1311 - you'll get the idea. I don't have one of these yet - it was only released this weekend - but I hope to get one very soon.

Andy.
Message: Posted by: David Eichler (Feb 5, 2005 08:21PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-31 10:23, AndrewMann wrote:
IT loops certainly are a great invention but can be expensive as they don't last very long. Making your own is probably better but can be fiddly which is why I was pleased to see a device released on the UK market which makes it far easier to make your own. If you check out 'ST.El.Th. Jig' on the hotlist page on Alakazam - http://www.alakazam.co.uk/acatalog/Hot_List_1.html#a1311 - you'll get the idea. I don't have one of these yet - it was only released this weekend - but I hope to get one very soon.

Andy.

[/quote]

Anyone have experience with this (or a similar) jig? I'd love to hear about it, if so. Thanks!

David
Message: Posted by: AndrewMann (Feb 14, 2005 09:42AM)
I finally managed to get to grips with ST.El.Th. Jig over the weekend and I can confirm that it's good - very good indeed. My initial fear was that, as a speccy wearer, the IET may be visible to others even if I can't see it and that there would be problems keeping track as the loops were being made. I needn't have worried as I just used a daylight bulb in an anglepoise lamp to illuminate the working area and I could keep track with no problems at all. Obviously doing the same thing outside in broad daylight would be easier and cheaper!

The method of creating the loops is logical and straightforward and you just need to take things a step at a time until you gain confidence - I practiced with white sewing thread to get the hang of it. The jig itself makes the whole process so easy - the pins are exactly the right size and shape, they're in the precise locations to help fumble fingers like me to do the biz and the whole thing has a nice smooth finish ensuring the IET won't snag anywhere. I'm going to 'enhance' mine with some of that nice sticky-back felt and some of those adhesive rubber pads on the bottom so it will stay steady on even the most slippery plastic topped tables etc.

If you use loops, or are considering using them, try this jig first and you'll not only save a fortune, you'll always be able to make a few loops for practice and impromptu performances rather than having to reserve them for only the paying gigs due to the cost of buying ready-made loops.
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Feb 14, 2005 09:45AM)
JM:

What a useful tip -- thanks!

Leland
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Feb 14, 2005 06:47PM)
Andrew -

Can the jig be used to make larger size loops, or is it a "one size" jig?

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: AndrewMann (Feb 15, 2005 02:44PM)
The jig is designed to make loops of about 5" long when fully 'flattened' but you could easily make larger loops if required - you just leave more of the IET slack and you can pin all that in place with wax which you need to use with the jig anyway. The main point of the jig is to make the tying off process much easier than doing it freehand. I havn't tried making larger ones yet as the 'normal' size suits things like PK effects, Eric James' MELT and so on.

Andy
Message: Posted by: Hamilton (Mar 23, 2005 12:00AM)
I was wondering why the picture is gone from the initial post on this thread? Is it an edit or accident?

Hamilton
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Mar 23, 2005 02:26PM)
Temporary domain name snaggles. Should be back within a couple of days.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: LR2 (Mar 31, 2005 06:04PM)
Can anyone send me the picture, it has been quite a while since it has worked.

Thanks in advance!
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Apr 4, 2005 03:19PM)
Pics should be available now. If you can't see 'em, PM me and I'll send 'em.

As a side note, it's interesting how some domain name registrars don't have any customer support. I've tried for 3 months leading up to expiration to simply pay them to renew the domain; it took almost a month after it expired for them to finally make it happen.

I definitely do not recommend actnowdomains (aka Wild West Domains)

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: Hamilton (Apr 5, 2005 01:34AM)
Thanks, for fixing the link and getting the Pics up again.
Message: Posted by: Salazar Magic (Aug 21, 2005 03:39AM)
So, which ones are the closest to Yigal Mesika's?
Message: Posted by: Magic Tad (Aug 22, 2005 09:28AM)
Wow, great advice! This works much better than my regular knots.
Thanks again,
Magic Tad
Message: Posted by: kid (Jan 1, 2006 05:45PM)
Guy-Could you email me the instructions to how to make a loop and maybe write it? My computer won't let me see the picture!
Thank you.

email-magicfamily@optonline.net
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jan 1, 2006 08:40PM)
I just put up a simpler version. It should be visible on the first page now.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: kid (Jan 3, 2006 09:05AM)
Guy could you explain how to hook it on the object you're floating?
Message: Posted by: GuySavoie (Jan 4, 2006 10:52PM)
That's really beyond the scope of this thread, and not really a topic for an open forum.

Loops can be useful as replacements for the Kundalini Rising card rise by Jeff McBride, or for tying replacement loops from Yigal Mesika's appropriately titled "Loops." He also has a booklet titled "Animated Miracles" which explores the use of loops.

--- Guy
Message: Posted by: Eirik (Jan 5, 2006 08:09AM)
I'm not sure which types of elastic you use Guy, but the Loops I use are not strong enough for Kundalini.

If the elastic you are using is as invisible as the original Mesika/Finn Jon loops and that much stronger I'd love to hear more about them.:)

I'v been fortunate to learn about Loops directly from Finn Jon himself. He taught me everything from stripping thread, tying knots, routines etc.

I feel there are both pros and cons about Finn selling the original Loops idea including routines to Mesika. A good thing is that Mesika has been very productive in promotion. He's made loops more common to the general magic community and this work has assured that more magicians play around with it, which eventually results in more new and creative uses and routines.

The biggest con is that Finn has developed about 30 more uses and routines using loops. These are routines that you will not find in the Animated Miracles book, nor anywhere else. Most of these routines are extremely hard to find, some are hidden in old 80s lecture notes, some on Finn Jon's old videos and some of the best he keeps to himself..

Effects using Loops are strong, but I don't believe they are strong enough to "carry" an act. As mentioned they are great as a backup if your IT suddenly breaks, or as an impromptu prop for those "show me a trick" moments.

-e-
Message: Posted by: fengenroll (Jan 10, 2006 08:53AM)
I just started experimenting with Loops. I was wondering, is the elastic thread used by Yigal Mesika stronger than the elastic you get off of a spool?

F.
Message: Posted by: gman (Feb 4, 2006 07:03PM)
Guy thanks for the info. Hard to believe that I use that knot for fishing and never thought of using it for loop making. Talk about having a Homer Simpson moment.

Thanks again.
George
Message: Posted by: C.J. (Jun 27, 2006 03:55AM)
3 years on, and this thread is still valuable! Thanks Guy! I saw this one a long time ago, and only NOW am I ready to start trying (and tying!) loops. Took me a bit of searching through the forums to find this one again, but it's exactly what I was after. Thanks again!
Message: Posted by: B.K.Pal (Oct 14, 2006 06:11AM)
Mesica Loops are really stronger. Must be special material. I had purchased iet spools from a reputed dealer . This is not so strong as Mesica's.
Special Thanks to Guy.
Message: Posted by: NMaggio (Oct 17, 2006 06:23AM)
Guy-

There is one area of tying loops I would appreciate additional insight: using a jig to make the process easier. The thread I tried came on a "200 yard" spool. It is very thin and extremely difficult to remove from the spool. Then there is the matter of securing the loop so that the knots are easy to tye.

The closet "jig" I came up with is the cardboard used to store the commercially made loops. By weighing down the cardboard and applying tape to the ends of the thread, I am able to get two overhad knots in the correct place. However, I destroy two out of three in the process. What "jig" do you use?

Nick Maggio
Message: Posted by: Sammy the Kid (Oct 30, 2006 12:43PM)
I use the "200 feet Invisible Elastic Thread" on a spool from the magic shop myself, and honestly I've never had problems with it. I start by putting a little ball of beeswax on the loose end of the elastic and tacking it to a white sheet of 8 1/2" X 11" paper. I then color it with a black Sharpie marker. Then, I use the clip of the Sharpie lid to hold the elastic in place where I want the middle to be, about 4" along the unstretched elastic. I then place another ball of beeswax about 8" along the unstretched elastic and snip the elastic just past the wax. The two balls of wax are easy reference points for the ends of the elastic and the weight of the sharpie keeps your middle in place so your loop doesn't ball up. For tying the knots I DO use the instructions provided at the start of this thread, so a big thanks Guy Savoie for providing this info for all us DIYers.
Message: Posted by: JamesChen (Feb 25, 2007 02:19PM)
Thank you for the info and picture.
Message: Posted by: Stuart Coyle (Feb 26, 2007 04:02PM)
For those who know their knots (i.e. the climbers and riggers amongst us) and have trouble deciphering pictures and remembering. :P

It's the two ends tied in a tape knot locked down with a single overhand knot. Then snip, snip. (That's technical speak for cut the *** fiddly stuff!)

Thanks for the info, I had wondered why my bowlines and clove hitches were not working...
Message: Posted by: phillys (Mar 12, 2007 09:33PM)
Thanks for the method on tying. They sure are handy!
Message: Posted by: Justin N. Miller (May 1, 2007 02:29PM)
I al so glad people are getting some good uses out of LOOPS. If you want to taqke it further please try and attend my lOOPS workshop. I will be giving another one in June at The Twin City Magic Convnetion In Tennesse. Also, Myself, Garcia, and Kranzo have a LOOPS dvd coming ot with E-llusionist.com in may (I just saw the art work). And for you elastic lovers I have a new hook-up coming out in June called The Cloak you can see a pic on my site http://www.closeupjm.com

All things LOOPY,
Justin N. iller
Message: Posted by: BRodgers (May 1, 2007 06:00PM)
Justin -

I myself can't wait for the Loobs DVD to come out. At a lecture by Nathen Kranzo, he touched on a few points with loops, and said everything you ever wanted to know about loops will be on that dvd. I look forward to it.

Brian Rodgers
Message: Posted by: solareflipz (Jun 8, 2007 05:51AM)
I just wanted to say thanks for posting this tutorial. I can tie my loops in no time now! :D
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Jun 13, 2007 09:54PM)
GuySavoie, Thank you for the tutorial - for the DIYers.

I would like to add: Once the IET has been knotted apply a little superglue on the knotted portion and then (after 10 seconds or so) cut off the extra ends of the IET. This will help bond the knot properly.

Use pointed end of a wooden toothpick to apply superglue.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: AaronTheMagician (Jun 14, 2007 12:32AM)
I actually want to thank Eiric for being the first person on this thread to even mention Finn Jon.
And as nice as Guy's method is, you should really invest in Finn Jon's "The Million Dollar Knot".

And to the person who said Losander's loops have no knot:
yes they do.
A good one, trimmed to perfection.
Attend a lecture and he'll prove it, lol. ;)
Message: Posted by: blackartman (Jun 27, 2007 11:23AM)
Thanks man!! works quite well.
Message: Posted by: Dmann (Jun 29, 2007 09:48AM)
Thanks for this terrific Topic. I realy enjoyed all the posts. I did noticed... and say this only in passing, that some of the Finest IET of its kind was left out...Silk Worm
Message: Posted by: Xemm (Aug 23, 2007 05:28PM)
Thanks Guy, your post really help me out here.
Message: Posted by: Leland Stone (Apr 16, 2008 02:42PM)
Guy's instructions are very helpful to my developing loop work, and I thought a tweak of my own might be useful in turn.

I use a tying "jig" which is just a short length of 2" ABS plastic pipe from Lowe's (about 2 bucks); the end is deburred with fine sandpaper to prevent snagging. I run a strip of double-sided tape on top of the pipe, 3 inches from the end. The pipe is then jammed into an open drawer, tape end jutting toward me. IT is wrapped around the pipe, stuck on the tape (which holds the IT as I wrap tape on the free ends), and then I tie the knot Guy describes. The double stick tape acts like a "third hand" and both speeds the process and keeps it from tangling.
Message: Posted by: Giacomo Moretti (Oct 7, 2008 06:05PM)
This is still an excellent thread. Should lower my cost of procuring loops.

Best,
G.
Message: Posted by: magiquemaker (Oct 9, 2008 09:15AM)
This is GREAT INFO!

Can someone post some cheap places to get the elastic thread. Where can I get it already seperated?

John
Message: Posted by: Evilstalkerhorne (Oct 30, 2008 03:11AM)
Are the Mesika loops really that much better than any other brand? I have made mine and also bought on Ebay when I was lazy. The Mesika loops are way expensive. Just want to know why and if they are really worth it.

I also would like to ad that I double up my thread when I make my own loops. This makes them stronger but when one string snaps you have to trim it to not get caught since it will tangle and bulk up.

Another thing that I do is use Sharpie permanent markers on the clear type of threading. This allows me to blend more than just a black string. ie. I have found that blue is a lot less noticible on fair skinned people and also in the daylight or against a blue or lighter colored shirt (NOT WHITE)
Try this and you will like it!
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jul 1, 2009 09:37PM)
Is the knot visible?
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jul 4, 2009 04:59AM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-13 22:54, Ustaad wrote:
GuySavoie, Thank you for the tutorial - for the DIYers.

I would like to add: Once the IET has been knotted apply a little superglue on the knotted portion and then (after 10 seconds or so) cut off the extra ends of the IET. This will help bond the knot properly.

Use pointed end of a wooden toothpick to apply superglue.

:xmas:
[/quote]

Thanks bro. Does the superglue leave a bigger size visible knot Ustaad?
Message: Posted by: magicmonk (Sep 16, 2009 03:01PM)
A question for Guy . . . In an earlier post you mentioned some Pantone pens that you use to assist in the threads invisibillity,- namely No's 2726 / 4525 / 470 Tria markers.
It seems that these are now no longer made (I think it was a Lettraset Product who are now defunct), or at least not available here in the UK.
Could you enlighten me as to what the actual colours were and if you, or anyone else can point me in the right direction ?

Am I the only one that thinks it's weird that such a long 'thread' is about 'elastic thread' ?!

Donald
Message: Posted by: ttorres (Sep 29, 2009 06:31PM)
Guy,

In your original post you said “Tip: Buy the 1,000 foot spool of Kundalini type elastic and use it as your source for elastic for the rest of your life for only $10!”. Can you please tell me your source for this product?

Thanks in advance,

Tony
Message: Posted by: Angel_7 (Mar 19, 2010 09:19AM)
Just wanted to add my thanks!

-Anthony
Message: Posted by: MuleePete (Oct 20, 2010 01:14AM)
"A thing of beauty is a joy forever", and I believe Guy has created a thing of beauty with this thread.

Thank you for starting me in the right loop direction.

MuleePete
Message: Posted by: leantransform (Nov 25, 2010 01:00PM)
This helped me a lot, trying to "just tie" an overhand loop leaves a lot to imagination, I was using too short a piece and it kept slipping. I am very Thankful to Guy on this Thanksgiving Day, maybe I can perform Kundalini tonight. Kundalini thread is the yellow tint "spandex" thread.
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Apr 1, 2011 05:50PM)
I also wanted to add that this is a great thread. The initial handling that guy showed is by far the best method I've seen to have a strong knot. It seemed like all of the other methods seemed to slip real easy. I prefer to use tape while making this as the wax I have clings very easy to other parts of the loop.
Message: Posted by: Ch. Ahsan (Sep 23, 2014 08:46AM)
Hi every1, I want to buy IET for making loops and I am looking for cheap thread which is quit "invisible" and allow to move pen, perform haunted deck 1.6/4 and simple stuff. Please help me. what do you think about it? http://www.ellusionist.com/invisible-elastic-thread-400ft.html
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Nov 14, 2015 12:18PM)
The image for tying a loop in the original post no longer loads and appears to have been lost.

Is that just me? Does any else have the picture from the original post?
Message: Posted by: lebb (Nov 18, 2015 11:22AM)
I do not see the image as well
Message: Posted by: GS121002 (Nov 20, 2015 12:18PM)
It appears that the problem is that the image hosting web site, Stage Two Magic, is no longer up.

http://www.stagetwomagic.com/loopknots.jpg
Message: Posted by: jmsilhy (Apr 3, 2020 11:47AM)
Hi guys, I'm reviving this post because I'm in need of some loops to keep my children entertained during this crazy pandemic. Anybody has the original drawings for this? Or another source to remind me of the method? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: mindfreak2.0 (May 30, 2020 03:32PM)
I too am looking for the original picture from this thread. If some one could post it or private message me, it would be greatly appreciated!