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Topic: Social compliance
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Oct 30, 2009 04:15PM)
Seem someone else do as tonyb

but they at least have the courage to state before their shows and on their webpage they are not hypnotizing anybody and that's all social compliance and imitation

http://www.hypnotism.co.uk/about-hypnosis.html

tonyb instead don't believe in hypnosis but I wonder if he openly tell that on his website and to his subjects
Message: Posted by: bobser (Oct 30, 2009 07:56PM)
Psidroid, you're a prick. Plain and simple. You always have been. And you're getting worse. I have no idea in reality who or what Tony B is. However you, by definition of your posts, are not fit to clean his swinging watch. Now go away and leave the hypnotists to talk together, there's a good lad. You're becoming an embarrassment to yourself.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Oct 30, 2009 08:27PM)
Bobser, old dog with fleas: it takes a prick to recognize another prick

obviously then you are one of us [pricks]
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 30, 2009 08:30PM)
You can't teach an old dog new pricks? is that the old adage?
Message: Posted by: Nongard1 (Oct 30, 2009 09:35PM)
PsiDroid this has nothing to do with truth but rather the stupid 1952 hypnosis act. It is a loophole to claim there is no such thing as hypnosis. Take this quite from his webpage:

"It can be performed where trance hypnosis is banned. Many venues have regulations which prevent them putting on hypnosis shows, but thereís nothing to stop them staging Martinís act, presenting it as psychological illusion and magic."

It is about presenting yourself as it must be to get around the stuipid nanny state and survalence state you Brits have developed.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Oct 30, 2009 10:34PM)
Richard beat me to it. Martin Taylor is getting around nonsensical British legislation. I am not based in Britain.
But if a punter genuinely asks for my views on hypnosis I will not lie to them. However I do not go out of my way to advertise my views, any more than I put out a disclaimer before my magic shows admitting its all trickery.
I don't expect my audience to share my views. I don't care - just so long as they enjoy my show. Tony.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Oct 31, 2009 07:15PM)
I was talking to Martin on the phone a couple evenings ago. Strangely enough I never actually asked him what he believes. LOL. However I'm getting together with him very soon. I'll let you all Know.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Nov 3, 2009 02:49PM)
[quote]
On 2009-10-30 22:35, Nongard1 wrote:
PsiDroid this has nothing to do with truth but rather the stupid 1952 hypnosis act. It is a loophole to claim there is no such thing as hypnosis. Take this quite from his webpage:

"It can be performed where trance hypnosis is banned. Many venues have regulations which prevent them putting on hypnosis shows, but thereís nothing to stop them staging Martinís act, presenting it as psychological illusion and magic."

It is about presenting yourself as it must be to get around the stuipid nanny state and survalence state you Brits have developed.
[/quote]

True. And I fully agree with you:

however some people may really believe hypnosis is ONLY social compliance [Tonyb for example is one if I have to bleieve his words]
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 3, 2009 04:54PM)
.... yeah but that's ok isn't it? There are many psychologists, psychiatrists and top hypnotists who argue the case for social compliance. Opinions are like belly buttons, they're all different and we've all got them. What's the problem?
I enjoy hearing the argument for social compliance. Some of them are in fact excellent. I disagree with them but fully respect their belief and the reasons why they fall at that side of the fence.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 3, 2009 08:05PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-03 15:49, PsiDroid wrote:
however some people may really believe hypnosis is ONLY social compliance [Tonyb for example is one if I have to bleieve his words]
[/quote]
A lot of very good hypnotists believe that hypnosis is social compliance. A lot of good hypnotists don't believe it. But it seems that only the ****e hypnotists get hung up on it.
By the way PsyDroid, why do you feel the need to highlight ONLY? That's your hang-up, not mine. Social compliance does not make less of the subject. Its just a different way of looking at what is happening.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 3, 2009 09:57PM)
Let me get this straight ... there ISN'T HYPNOTISM?
This is SO CONFUSING!!!!
Hundreds of hypnotists working on stage and in hypno offices all around the world but it's not real? It would seem just as bad as telling someone that you'd talked to their dead Uncle, when you say you hypnotized them and you really didn't!
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 4, 2009 05:59AM)
If some one doesn't believe hypnosis exists how can they be a hypnotist? Doesn't make any sense Tony. There are NO hypnotists that believe that. They have to be something else.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 4, 2009 11:12AM)
I didn't say that hypnosis is not real. I said that there is no such thing as a distinct trance state, with special psychological properties. In common with a great many hypnotists I believe this. I believe that hypnosis is a psychological process, in which social compliance plays a huge part. Normal suggestivity, which has nothing to do with trance, also plays a huge part. A hypnotic trance, caused by the actions of the hypnotist, is a myth.
That's my belief. It has not hindered my show in any way. It has not hindered the shows of the many hypnotists who genuinely don't believe.
I don't believe in magic. It doesn't stop me doing a *** good magic show. Tony.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 4, 2009 11:23AM)
Of course trance exists that the point you seem to think trance is a mystical experience. While some people may have mystical experiences trance itself is part of the normal functioning of the mind. It not only exists we cannot exist without it.

"Normal" suggestability doesn't stick peoples hands together, get them to feel strong sensations or smell or experience complete amnesia for a two hour performance.

Are you saying they just pretend and are lying? Are you saying that's normal suggestion?

Or is it some kind of statement or being trendy to state hypnosis doesn't exist?
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Nov 4, 2009 01:34PM)
The worst thing a person can do is take away another persons belief.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 4, 2009 01:42PM)
Dismantling beliefs that hinder someone is the kindest thing you can do...

Anyway that's an interesting belief you have where did you pick it up?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 4, 2009 03:14PM)
Mindpunisher, of course trance states exist. What else is a coma? But it has nothing to do with what goes on during a stage hypnosis show. People's hands DO stick through suggestion alone. Suggestion is sufficient to produce smells. Hypnotic amnesia is very exaggerated. If you push someone hard enough they will "remember" what happened to them while they were "under".
I know it bothers you, but social compliance does explain what happens quite adequetly. Its not the only theory that fits the facts, but it is the theory I lean towards.
By the way, why is it that all these contentious threads are started by people who reject the social compliance theory? Those of us who accept social compliance are confident enough about our beliefs not to feel the need to preach at others. Just an observation. Tony.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 4, 2009 03:31PM)
Hypnotic amnesia was never exagerated in any shows I've done it was genuine. It doesn't bother me Tony. And as for preaching aren't you the one that goes on about scientific proof for everything. Even although its clear that you are very selective as to what scientific proof you will consider? At least I am consistent in my beliefs unlike your good self. Anyonewho would eat a smelly old sheeps head then complain that they took the brains out can be expected to say crazy stuff.

Hypnosis theory explains what happens adequately. Tell me all those that accept social compliance as THE theory do they all believe everyone sticks their hands together to get off work. Or just to make the hypnotist look good to?

And do they pretend to live by peer based scientific research only if it suits their purposes? And do they crave the good old days when brains were left in a sheeps head along with the eyes and the tongue? And you say you have moved on from the dark ages?

You make ozzy osburne look normal.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 4, 2009 05:49PM)
Hi Mindpunisher. I don't accept evidence that is presented out of context - such as your claim on another thread that modern medicine was the leading cause of death in America. You completely ignored the fact that the people who were using doctors were SICK TO BEGIN WITH. When you ignore the context your argument becomes meaningless.
I do believe that people stick their hands together for you. I believe the man who was stuck to a chair for a day after Derren Brown's stunt was playing along for attention. You are being very naive if you believe there is anything more to it than that.
And sheeps brains are a delicacy in the middle-east. As anyone who has eaten them will tell you, they are delicious. And sheeps heads do not stink if they are cooked correctly.
I am glad to have been able to clear up so many things for you. If you need any further information don't be afraid to ask. Tony.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 4, 2009 07:39PM)
OK ... So HYPNOTISM isn't REAL but the HYPNOTIST IS? (But he just can't really hypnotize anyone..... for real)
Is that it?

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!!!!
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 4, 2009 09:40PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-04 18:49, TonyB2009 wrote:
Hi Mindpunisher. I don't accept evidence that is presented out of context - such as your claim on another thread that modern medicine was the leading cause of death in America. You completely ignored the fact that the people who were using doctors were SICK TO BEGIN WITH. When you ignore the context your argument becomes meaningless.
I do believe that people stick their hands together for you. I believe the man who was stuck to a chair for a day after Derren Brown's stunt was playing along for attention. You are being very naive if you believe there is anything more to it than that.
And sheeps brains are a delicacy in the middle-east. As anyone who has eaten them will tell you, they are delicious. And sheeps heads do not stink if they are cooked correctly.
I am glad to have been able to clear up so many things for you. If you need any further information don't be afraid to ask. Tony.
[/quote]

Tony go back to the original thread and read the bloody research. It was NOT out of context. If someone needs their toe nails cut because its starting to curl and hurt you don't saw off the toe. Which is more or less what some of the research is saying.

Stoning women removing hands suicide bombing and public hanging are also specialities of the Middle East. I think that sort of sums up the place "lost in the dark ages". Not the kind of place to be used as a reference for such a forward thinking guy like you I would've thought? But then again you really aren't the guy you think you are or trying to potray on here. That research was not out of context. And it was NOT my assertion it was the assertion of well established researchers and govermant agencies within the medical field.

I can only lead a horse to water but unfortunately I cannot make an A-ss drink.

also an interesting read:

>>>>BL: It has been statistically established that one third of all medical healings (including surgery) are derived from the placebo effect as opposed to intervention.

This means if someone has an illness and takes a sugar pill under the assumption that itís a prescribed drug designed to cure the condition, a healing will occur one third of the time.

This is a scientifically established fact, which is taught in medical school and what it says is that perception and belief can instigate healing that occurs innately by the body. We have all been endowed with an innate healing ability that has been with us since the evolution of our species but from the age of six our brain patterns alter, we start acquiring perceptions about who we are in the world and in the majority of cases our conditioning over-rides this natural ability.<<<<<


If you want to read the whole article http://www.brucelipton.com/biology-of-belief/mind-growth-matter

Now Tony show me the research that proves him wrong? I had heard of the placebo effect being one third and widely accepted within the medical field. Now this Doctor who attended medical achool just confirmed it. Yet you won't listen to reason. You make up your own little world. Or maybe he just wrote that article to please me specifically?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 5, 2009 03:49AM)
Mindpunisher, you are factually incorrect. The placebo effect, while real, does not account for a third of medical successes. The actual figure is far smaller than that. All the research confirms this.
And saying that medical intervention is the biggest cause of death is about as meaningful as saying that marriage is the leading cause of divorce.
I am not rejecting your research, just your flawed interpretation of it.
By the way I am familiar with Bruce Lipton and his thinking, and have read the article you pointed us to. Pure new-age junk. You do realise he is not a medical doctor? He is not held in high regard among peers in his own area of expertise, and once he moves beyond his limited expertise his claims and ideas become increasingly bizarre and unrelated to the real world.
If you can't do better than this, bow out now with your dignity intact.
Quoting Bruce Lipton in a serious debate is clutching at straws. Tony.
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Nov 5, 2009 05:05AM)
Indeed, quoting Lipton in the face of the Cochrane report. LOL. Go meta MP, the guy is another quantum quack.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 5, 2009 05:46AM)
Show me "ALL" of the research Tony. I don't give you my interpretation of any research . All the words were cut and pasted from the researchers. I have read somewhere and saw on a tv documentry many moons ago that around a third of all medicine is placebo based upon medical research.

However I never ever said that research was the truth one way or another. It is a scientific "viewpoint" nothing more. Research results change with the wind depending who is doing it. But the fact that you have been drawn into making a decision or take a side based on research is the downfall of your credibility. In fact in case you haven't noticed your stuck in a double bind. No matter which way you jump you are discredited.


Anthony how can you talk about quacks when your main function in the hypnosis world is to breed untrained hypnotists to "attack" members in the street. The guy has a Phd he is an academic. If this guy is a quack you are a beak short of a duck. You don't have any credibility compared to him. In fact you don't have any credibility at all apart from teenagers and magi's who buy your products and manage to make someone look silly in dangerous situations with inadequate training.

I think I know who I would place my bets with on this one.

Quack quack!
Message: Posted by: Anthony Jacquin (Nov 5, 2009 06:07AM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-05 06:46, mindpunisher wrote:
Anthony how can you talk about quacks when your main function in the hypnosis world is to breed untrained hypnotists to "attack" members in the street.
[/quote]

The vast majority of people who choose to train with me are mature professional performers. There is no army of unethical teens looking to do harm. Not outside of your head anyway. I do not teach people to attack anyone. I am interested in people being trained well and deliver on that.

So what he has a Phd. Everything Lipton published after 1985 is generally regarded as new age crackpot fluff. The guy looked into his petri dish, saw something move and lost it.

You pattern of quote something as if it is fact, see it rebuffed then claim you never really believed it anyway and just wanted to make a pointless point is becoming predictable.

Anthony
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 5, 2009 06:46AM)
Mindpunisher I corrected you before when you tried to claim that quantum physics supported some view or other of yours. You had no understanding of quantum physics, and now you are demonstrating a similar expertise in medicine. Cutting and pasting from the internet is not research. Quoting Lipton as an authority is a further demonstration of your lack of understanding.

I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but life is to short to slowly lead you to the right path. I am not a teacher, and in areas you tend to spout on about you have a huge amount to learn. That is why I didn't bother replying in detail to your medical posts, and why I am not going to rise to you on this occasion too.
I would like to say keep taking the tablets, but as you would probably be taking placebos there is no point.

On a final note, you give out about guys like myself doing shows without formal training, then you give out about guys like Anthony providing training. Make up your mind.

By the way, I am working through The Mancurian Approach and am enjoying it thoroughly. I am also learning things. I am sure that news will come as a bit of a disappointment to you, but there you are. So far it is a very good product. Tony.
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Nov 5, 2009 11:47AM)
MP. I learned what I said through experience. I am a nonbeliever of religion but would never try to convince someone that what they believe is false. And if I were religious I wouldn't be trying to save non believers.

I'm shocked this thread is even going on in a forum that is dedicated to Hypnosis. "Shocked" might not be the right word. Disgusted.

Everyone has the right to their own belief. I think dropping this subject would be the best for everyone.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 5, 2009 12:24PM)
It will always be this way. Non-believers have become Evangelicals :)
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 5, 2009 01:07PM)
Tony you didn't correct me you said it was false. But so much of what you say is tripe. If you want to correct me go ahead correct me. Show me the research you are so fond of show me the proof. I will show you research that says different. I have shown you research that opposes some of the misguided views that you have and you refute it without any reason so give me your reason. You have about as much credibility as Rollex made in tiawan. Only you seem to believe you are worth listening to. Most of us have you well figured out now.

So go on correct me.

Anthony doesn't provide safe training for the street. The majority read his although well written but very limited book which encourages "attacks" on members of the public in public places without training. I know Tony you would constitute that as training because it is equal to a phd compared to what you did before starting shows. But none the less it isn't training.

Rotten I have no intention of changing anybody's beliefs - my only intention is to show rediculous and harmful notions for what they are. Readers of these threads can make up their own minds supposing they have one. For some even a half would be a good start.

[quote]
On 2009-11-05 12:47, Rotten wrote:
MP. I learned what I said through experience. I am a nonbeliever of religion but would never try to convince someone that what they believe is false. And if I were religious I wouldn't be trying to save non believers.

I'm shocked this thread is even going on in a forum that is dedicated to Hypnosis. "Shocked" might not be the right word. Disgusted.

Everyone has the right to their own belief. I think dropping this subject would be the best for everyone.
[/quote]

I find your post highly amusing. The ones that go on here most about changing beliefs and talk about scientific credibility have the least credibility of them all.

This IS a forum about hypnosis why would anyone come on here and try and prove it doesn't exist? The only thing Tony should correct is his fixed limited thought patterns that are making him look more and more silly as time passes.

For someone who goes on about science and research he is probably the last one on here I would give much credibility to.
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Nov 5, 2009 02:39PM)
I'm pleased that I could amuse you. That's the reason I post.

Seeing as I am new to this particular forum and I make my living as a variety comic I do not know any of you. (Except for psychic samurai)

I have seen/worked with over 2 dozen hypnosis shows. I enjoyed one. In Feb. I am going to be certified by that "one" as I am suffering physical injuries and wonder how long I'll be able to demonstrate my mad skills with humor. I want to entertain forever, it's all I know. Stage hypnosis I could do till retirement. So I poked my head in here and not the sideshow forum as usual. Social compliance, I read. I wonder what that means? I have seen very little use of social compliance in this topic.

I really hoped to find a bunch of witty and entertaining fellas discussing hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 5, 2009 03:39PM)
I am sorry that this is proving to be a rotten introduction to this forum. Normally we are witty and urbane, but occasionally we get together on this forum, and that goes out the window.
But sometimes we can pleasently swap experiences and help each other. I have learnt a lot here.

So much for the veneer of urbanity. Now I must address Mindpunisher.
You have lectured us on quantum physics. You knew nothing about the subject.
Then you lectured us on medicine. You knew nothing about the subject.
Now you are quoting a hippy cell biologist. Again you know nothing about the subject.
Three strikes and you're out. Go home and read a book or two, and this time try to understand them.

You asked: This IS a forum about hypnosis why would anyone come on here and try and prove it doesn't exist?

I have no answer for this question. I have never come on this forum to prove anything. All the posts questioning hypnosis originated from others. I merely, like everyone else, give my views. When I know nothing (often the case) I keep my mouth shut. There's a lesson there.

Finally, Rotten, welcome to the battle zone. There are several useful threads here. From the tone of your post you are soon facing physical challenges (I would love if I am picking up that wrong). You will find hypnosis a great show to do. If you are a good entertainer and have confidence in yourself, you will have no problem pulling it off. I hope it is a great success for you.
Tony.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 6, 2009 12:21AM)
So let me get this straight ... IS HYPNOTISM REAL IF THE HYPNOTIST ISN'T?
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Nov 6, 2009 01:10AM)
Psychic Sam,

What I gather is there is several pools of thought on this subject. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and if it works for them then that's swell. I know chiropractors who think they can cure cancer and other's that just believe in the alignment of the spine. Humans, no two are alike. I love that about us.
Message: Posted by: Hostile18 (Nov 6, 2009 06:25PM)
If anyone's interested in a good introductory outline of different theories of hypnosis then I would recommend 'Trancework' by Michael Yapko.

For those who are knew to all this, beware of those who have the 'right answer'. There are some complex issues here, and whilst you can be successful with a narrow viewpoint, it does mean you'll miss out. Explore at your leisure.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 7, 2009 12:17PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-05 16:39, TonyB2009 wrote:
I am sorry that this is proving to be a rotten introduction to this forum. Normally we are witty and urbane, but occasionally we get together on this forum, and that goes out the window.
But sometimes we can pleasently swap experiences and help each other. I have learnt a lot here.

So much for the veneer of urbanity. Now I must address Mindpunisher.
You have lectured us on quantum physics. You knew nothing about the subject.
Then you lectured us on medicine. You knew nothing about the subject.
Now you are quoting a hippy cell biologist. Again you know nothing about the subject.
Three strikes and you're out. Go home and read a book or two, and this time try to understand them.

You asked: This IS a forum about hypnosis why would anyone come on here and try and prove it doesn't exist?

I have no answer for this question. I have never come on this forum to prove anything. All the posts questioning hypnosis originated from others. I merely, like everyone else, give my views. When I know nothing (often the case) I keep my mouth shut. There's a lesson there.

Finally, Rotten, welcome to the battle zone. There are several useful threads here. From the tone of your post you are soon facing physical challenges (I would love if I am picking up that wrong). You will find hypnosis a great show to do. If you are a good entertainer and have confidence in yourself, you will have no problem pulling it off. I hope it is a great success for you.
Tony.
[/quote]

Tony the only person on this forum who has lectured anybody is you. I provided information from expert sources on these subjects. I have also stated that I believe all of these experts are just "a view point". I have always said the "reality" is always bigger than one view point.

You on the otherhand have consistently claimed your piont of view IS THE ONLY ONE.
And even when provided with information from experts (NOT ME) you still say you are right. You also say regularly on here everyone else is deluded or stuck in the dark ages.

Yet you offer NO information, NO proof NO research. In fact you haven't offered anything apart from opportunities to make you look silly which of course we all have enjoyed and thank you for.

But the funniest of all is you can't even see how many times you've been discredited.

Anything I have put forward was not my information. It came from expert sources. I have not lectured anyone. Anyone can believe what they want. Its you who thinks your cockeyed veiw of reality is the only one. Even when its obviously not shared by the highly esteemed research you go on about.
Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Nov 7, 2009 03:10PM)
Sorry mindpunisher but did you expect any better coming from tonyb ??

don't you know yet that he is the almighty omniscient tony ?? the man who teaches gods how to think and behave ??


lol
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 7, 2009 03:38PM)
If two more people agree I will read Trancework ... OK (I hate to read) :)
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 7, 2009 04:48PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-04 20:39, Psychic Samurai wrote:
OK ... So HYPNOTISM isn't REAL but the HYPNOTIST IS? (But he just can't really hypnotize anyone..... for real)
Is that it?

HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!!!!
[/quote]
This sucks. You ask an honest question and you get stuck in the middle of a virtual measuring contest.

Some facts to ponder. Well nobody knows for certain what anyone is proposing to be FACTS. They are inturpretations of opinions.

The thing is this though, and it is why I stay out of these "semantic debates". And trust me this is what they are. If it is real or if it is not real missed the point. It will not change the way a show is done one way or the other. If it is real or fake or whatever, it does not matter.

Mostly it is just guys trying to be the smartest guys in the room and it is pointless. So I simply encourage you to read as much as possible on each side of the debate and come to the conclusion which best suits your needs. I mean absolutes are tough to deal in. I mean if it is "fake" for lack of a better term, then every participant is simply playing along. If they are experiencing "something" then there ya go, SOMETHING is happening.

To me it is like going to see a wrestling match from the WWE. If you are sitting there asking if it is real or not, you are missing the point of why they are putting on the show in the first place.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 7, 2009 05:20PM)
First of all we aren't sitting watching a hypnosis show as a punter. We are in the business should at least have a certain level of knowledge and experience Secondly I think that is a very poor comparison. Hypnosis has a lot of research that "proves" it exists as well as research that "proves" it doesn't. And by exist we mean that hypnotic trance does exist. Some thoughts around hypnosis state that we are continuously in trance and swap one trance for another.

Some of the theories around social compliance state that in certain situations the brain doesn't process information and responds automatically with little conscious control.

Neither say that people just go along with things. I think both are valid and belong together rather than apart. They are both explanations and theories that give some insight into what is happening. And again I believe that reality is always bigger than one viewpoint or even all viewpoints collectively.

And the "argument" was not one of semantics. It was more to do with pulling apart a viewpoint that believes the are right while everybody else was wrong.

But you've missed a lot since you haven't been around for a while...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 7, 2009 05:46PM)
Actually, not really. It seems the same idiotic arguements as ever LOL.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 7, 2009 06:02PM)
Welcome back to the green asylum. You back for more therapy?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 7, 2009 06:26PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-07 13:17, mindpunisher wrote:
I provided information from expert sources on these subjects. Anything I have put forward was not my information. It came from expert sources. [/quote]

Prize for the best laugh of the weekend has to go to Mindpunisher. He mentions experts, then he quotes Bruce Lipton. Time to check up the meaning of the word expert - and this time I suggest you don't rely on google.

Prize for the most sensible input of the weekend must go to Danny, who wrote: "If it is real or if it is not real missed the point. It will not change the way a show is done one way or the other. If it is real or fake or whatever, it does not matter."

I have said that before - whatever your view of hypnosis, what matters is that it does not hinder your ability to put on a good show.

Good to see you back, Danny. Its fun to argue with someone who will defend his position without becoming a dogmatic bore.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 7, 2009 06:31PM)
>>>Good to see you back, Danny. Its fun to argue with someone who will defend his position without becoming a dogmatic bore<<<


Tony I think you easily win the best laugh vote. If anyone is a dogmatic bore it has to be you. Read your last few posts. Its you you describe. I guess there is something in perception is projection.

You look more like an idiot with each post. Which part of Liptons quote are you refuting? And where is your proof?

that's really about as deep as you get. I hope your shows are better than your logic.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 7, 2009 06:44PM)
Mindpunisher, I am not refuting anything Lipton said. I am merely pointing out to every reader of these forums something which you did not point out: he is not a doctor, and is about as qualified to make his medical pronouncements as the Dali Lama, the Beatles Maharishi, or any other new-ager.He's your expert; it is up to you to defend his position, which is at odds with all accepted medical thinking.

Attacking me is the easy option; mouthy people like me are big targets. A more interesting approach would be to back up your arguements by quoting actual experts, people who work in the field they are talking about. Its an interesting thougth, but I won't hold my breath waiting for you to try it.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 7, 2009 07:12PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-07 19:31, mindpunisher wrote:
>>>Good to see you back, Danny. Its fun to argue with someone who will defend his position without becoming a dogmatic bore<<<


Tony I think you easily win the best laugh vote. If anyone is a dogmatic bore it has to be you. Read your last few posts. [/quote]

Technically if this were true, (and mind you I am not saying it is true) it would be something like "best in irony". But why quibble?

Although you do prove my point that if more hypnotists studied comedy, timing, stage pictures and things like that and quit arguing about nonsense, it would help the art far more.
Message: Posted by: Rotten (Nov 7, 2009 10:29PM)
PS. Read Trancework. ;-0
Message: Posted by: dmkraig (Nov 9, 2009 10:36AM)
Rotten, (which I don't think you are at all) I think the problem is one of definition more than reality. What is and what is not hypnosis? What is and what is not a trance state? Either can be defined in such a way as to prove that they don't exist or do exist.

Of course, the next problem would be getting people to agree with the definition. Put ten hypnotists in a room and you'll get 15 definitions of hypnosis...maybe more!

There was a mystic who 105 years ago wrote, "Let success be your proof." If you give a hypnosis show that entertains, the definition of hypnosis doesn't matter. If you help someone with hypnotherapy, the definition of trance doesn't matter.

Finally remember that anyone here can claim or imply that they are experts. Forget grains, take everything you read here (including my posts) with a MINE of salt. Instead, use them as a place to start your investigations, not end them.

And yes, Trancework is a book deserving of being read and studied.
Message: Posted by: bobser (Nov 9, 2009 01:14PM)
Danny, you were sending me something. If you did it didn't arrive.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 9, 2009 03:39PM)
Wow that was cryptic. Send me your address and tell me what I should send. Actually I was supposed to just upload it to You Tube right?

I do know it was something, show related. I have to remember to read the Memory Book by...I forgot who.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Nov 19, 2009 04:24PM)
[quote]
On 2009-11-07 19:44, TonyB2009 wrote:

Attacking me is the easy option; mouthy people like me are big targets. A more interesting approach would be to back up your arguements by quoting actual experts, people who work in the field they are talking about. Its an interesting thougth, but I won't hold my breath waiting for you to try it.
[/quote]

No Tony you are a bit confused again. Being attacked is a product of being a mouthy and talking through backside...

You have not quoted one bit of evidence to support any of your ramblings. And that's all they are. You open your mouth and talk sh - ite 80% of the time. You are also the one who attacks others on here...

You attract that kind of attention. But no point telling you will never see it. I don't attack you I play with you for fun. And you don't even see it.

[quote]
On 2009-11-07 20:12, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-11-07 19:31, mindpunisher wrote:
>>>Good to see you back, Danny. Its fun to argue with someone who will defend his position without becoming a dogmatic bore<<<


Tony I think you easily win the best laugh vote. If anyone is a dogmatic bore it has to be you. Read your last few posts. [/quote]

Technically if this were true, (and mind you I am not saying it is true) it would be something like "best in irony". But why quibble?

Although you do prove my point that if more hypnotists studied comedy, timing, stage pictures and things like that and quit arguing about nonsense, it would help the art far more.
[/quote]

Why would it help the art? What makes you think I am here to help the art? The art is beyond help it will go in whatever direction of the fast buck and the internet takes it. I have no power to help the art. I can only voice my opinion which has no effect.

you are here arguing as much as anybody/ We are here for our amusement not to help the art. Please put that grandiose notion away you make me snigger.

If when I perform or any of the other hypnosis related activities I currently run - that no one else is doing, I run for me not the art. I do have integrity though and look after my clients unlike some half book wonders on here.

We are all here for amusement or to sell products. This forum disintegrated ages ago and can longer be taken seriously. At the same time it has a strange value and worthwhile place.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 19, 2009 05:44PM)
Since you are not bright enough to do the search, (and since it was quite a few years ago) here is some help.

Look at July 17th. http://www.genewilliamscountry.com/full-press-releases.html#July 17

Nice try though. Neither you or your friends seem to good at the internet Mark.

Posted: Nov 19, 2009 6:57pm
Punisher I think you are wrong. I do think there are those here who do want to learn.

Matter of fact that is why it bothers me so much when people like Mark want to do nothing but wind people up. It sort of grates on me when you do it as well. I do think some people come here for help and find out that it is tough to weed through the nonsense. Mark is here acting like a child even though he has been banned many many times. He acts all nice then turns into what he actually is.

I do think people want help and I think there are many ways to get it. I think that the internet and forums like this are going to be a new place people turn to in order to get that help. Only being here for amusement or just to wind people up or to cause problems like Mark does nothing for anyone. I think a high tide raises all boats and if everyone learned better, then everyone would benefit.