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Topic: Trabucco holdout
Message: Posted by: jd999 (Dec 19, 2009 04:01AM)
Hi
I hope I have posted this in the correct section, if not please feel free to move.

I have a black widow but really don't like it, too bulky and I don't like the restrictions of not being able to take my jacket off and just hate the feel of it.

I have heard good things about the trabucco and wondered (without tipping methods) how they differ. If you have both, how do you feel about them. I can't seem to find too much info on the setup of the trabucco.

I am looking for something to assist in the vanish of a coin or stack of coins held together with a clip, and maybe reappearance too. Or would a topit be better ? I've never used one so not really sure how they differ.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, except the usual reply of "buy a book and learn sleights". I do that too, but I am specifically asking about this please.

Thanks for your help
JD
Message: Posted by: doug brewer (Dec 19, 2009 01:44PM)
Hi JD: While I'm not a complete expert with the topit and holdout (I use the Invisible Hand), I have experienc with both. For a single coin - a topit. For a stack, a topit works, and perhaps a holdout. A topit you can remove your coat relatively quickly. A holdout, you may need to "disengage" part of it, without giving away any secrets, and then take your coat off. Holdouts are amazing devices, take a lot of practice, but can be miracle makers in the right place (same with a topit, really). As with all these devices, you can get a little topit- or holdout-crazy. Moderation, moderation, moderation. Hope this helps.

Doug
Message: Posted by: jerdunn (Dec 19, 2009 07:33PM)
JD,

The Trabucco Holdout isn't a gravity holdout but works another way.

I'm quite sure it could NOT hold a stack of coins in a clip, but is great for single coins and many other small items.

Cheers,
Jerry
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Dec 19, 2009 10:04PM)
There are different kinds of holdouts--those that are "action" holdouts, like the Black Widow, Kohler, Miller, etc, that have moving parts. Then there are "static" holdouts that do not have moving parts and work in an entirely different way. The Tabucco Holdout falls into the latter category. You really can't compare the two categories, they are entirely different animals, used in entirely different ways.

One way you CAN compare them, however, is that to USE THEM, they both require you to keep your jacket on--so if that is the big issue for you, neither type will suffice--nor will a topit, for that matter, as that, too installs in your coat... Perhaps you would be better served by a Raven, or something similar.

However, you CAN take your coat off without exposing the Trabucco Holdout--you just won't have the use of it anymore.With an "action" holdout, of course, removing your coat would expose the apparatus.

Hope that helps!
Message: Posted by: jd999 (Dec 20, 2009 03:00AM)
Thank you very much for your responses they are very helpful.

Scott, I am happy to perform with the jacket on, I just don't want to expose once I remove the jacket like I would with the BW. I also don't like the body movements you have to make with the BW type of holdout as no matter how much I practice I just can't get it natural. It may not look to bad but feels horrible to me if that makes sense.

I want something that I can setup and more or less forget I am wearing if that is possible with a holdout or topit, and be able to remove the jacket without exposing, then replace jacket and perform (with minimal setup again).

Will a topit allow me to reproduce or only vanish ? I've never had one so don't know how they work. Is a topit like a raven ? I've also had a raven but found it was not for me as a certain something was uncomfortable on the end of my finger (don't want to expose). I would also prefer something that I can show my hands clean, do the dirty and re-show hands clean which is not possible beforehand with the raven.

Thanks again for all your input and any more is really appeciated.
JD
Message: Posted by: jd999 (Dec 20, 2009 03:07AM)
I forgot to add,

Does anyone have any videos of any routines utilising the trabucco ? It would be good to see how the vanishes or reproductions look using the trabucco. I can't seem to find any

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Dec 20, 2009 11:09AM)
Actually the Fitch Kohler Holdout is attached to your coat so that you can both remove or put on your jacket and activate the holdout system right in front of your audience.

The bad news...

They are no longer available.
Message: Posted by: dsalley13 (Dec 20, 2009 02:32PM)
Jd999,

The Trabucco system works just fine with a vest (Winter down vests come to mind for this time of year), or an untucked-in Hawai'ian shirt. After you get a pair of Trabuccos, you'll be making your own or transferring what you receive to gaff every jacket, vest (vests do have to be a bit substantially made or will show movement too easily), and gaff-proper shirt you have. They work that good. I've heard it said you can use them with an un-tucked t-shirt, but I've never tried that. I don't wear t-shirts much. :o)

You can easily transfer a Trabucco or 2, but for performance wear, I prefer a set in each jacket/vest I use.

This is well worth learning and Vic is the absolute master. $$$Money very well spent, by my standards. The gimmicks will fool you (no high-tech going on here), until you use them properly. Then you get that special full-body grin that says you are learning something very, very special. Then go out and fool the he!! out of people! :o)

http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/?nd=full&key=2062


dsalley13
Message: Posted by: tophead (Dec 20, 2009 03:28PM)
Trabucco's idea is sharp but as already stated it doesn't do anything, it's just a very quick way to ditch or retrieve something under cover of misdirection or during an off beat. Although it wouldn't be exposed by removing your jacket, what you are holding out might be. But you can forget you're wearing it when you don't need it because it doesn't restrict your mobility, and you never feel you have anything you need to hide.

hope that helps
Message: Posted by: dsalley13 (Dec 20, 2009 04:06PM)
We agree. The topic here was "Trabucco..", so I was just addressing that for the jd999. It's one of many hold-outs and style of holdouts that we can vary using. That never gives a spec. a chance at all. All these things need to be used judiciously and must be rotated in performance use. I'm learning that from listening reading here at the Café and applying it. Trabucco's devices are just one of many available and possible hold outs, but they are ingenious.


dsalley13
Message: Posted by: jd999 (Dec 21, 2009 04:44PM)
Thanks Guys that is all VERY helpful.

What hand positions can you use to vanish/ditch ? Does it have to be palm down like the raven ?

I can't understand why there is no demo video with the trabucco, makes it really difficult to know if it will be the right thing for me.

Thanks again for all your help though. If anyone has a link to a vid where one is used, it would really help.
Message: Posted by: jolyonjenkins (Dec 21, 2009 05:20PM)
If you want the Trabucco to do anything like the Black Widow or Raven, then you will be disappointed. It's more for ditching than vanishing.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Dec 23, 2009 11:34PM)
[quote]
On 2009-12-21 18:20, rjenkins wrote:
If you want the Trabucco to do anything like the Black Widow or Raven, then you will be disappointed. It's more for ditching than vanishing.
[/quote]

I don't quite agree with that. A Raven is good only for ditching, while the Trabucco holdout can definitely be used for producing, vanishing, and subsequent reproducing of items.

Jim
Message: Posted by: nonvpro (Dec 24, 2009 11:22AM)
I've use a Trabucco Holdout in coats, vests and shirts. For producing, vanishing and exchanging items.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Dec 24, 2009 11:31PM)
[quote]
On 2009-12-21 17:44, jd999 wrote:
Thanks Guys that is all VERY helpful.

What hand positions can you use to vanish/ditch ? Does it have to be palm down like the raven ?

I can't understand why there is no demo video with the trabucco, makes it really difficult to know if it will be the right thing for me.

Thanks again for all your help though. If anyone has a link to a vid where one is used, it would really help.
[/quote]

Again, you are misunderstanding what the Trabucco Holdout is. It is a totally different animal than the raven or the other holdouts mentioned. It may have been better not to call it a holdout at all, because that is not how it works or what it does. Hand position is largely immaterial. It has no moving parts. Think of it as a kind of servante, and you will be much closer to understanding the difference. But based on what you are talking about and how you want to use it, the Trabucco may not be for you. Think very low tech, servante-type item, used for ditching and stealing.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mystoffelees (Dec 25, 2009 09:39PM)
Is this a "no fishing" zone???
Message: Posted by: Mad_Lewis (Dec 26, 2009 11:10AM)
[quote]
On 2009-12-20 12:09, Bob Kohler wrote:
Actually the Fitch Kohler Holdout is attached to your coat so that you can both remove or put on your jacket and activate the holdout system right in front of your audience.

The bad news...

They are no longer available.
[/quote]

will they be in the future ?
Message: Posted by: daav0 (Dec 28, 2009 07:14AM)
I just had a topit sewn into one of my coats, and I am wondering if anyone wears such a coat when not intending to topit anything? Can you safely fold the hangy outy part inside the topit and just wear the jacket? any suggestions??
Message: Posted by: Stanyon (Dec 28, 2009 07:52AM)
Yes and yes to the first two questions.