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Topic: Daryl's Colour Changing Knives
Message: Posted by: D J Hawkins (Jun 19, 2003 05:15PM)
Although I love Daryl's routine, I find the knives are very difficult to use. They seem far too wide to do the paddle move effectively, and I'm really struggling. Has anyone else had a similar problem, and is there a certain knack to making the handling easier ?
Message: Posted by: xicepik (Jun 19, 2003 05:39PM)
How wide are the knives? I got the "normal" color changing knives, are they wider than that?
Message: Posted by: denver (Jun 19, 2003 06:41PM)
i have the color changing knives and have not got the paddle move to work right. its really difficult for me too, please let us know how to do it w. these standard width knives.

thx

denver
Message: Posted by: purpulhaze (Jun 19, 2003 08:14PM)
I not to long ago had a conversation with a magic dealer I know about this. I guess Daryl though a great magician did not make a good decision on the manifacturing of his color changing knives set. They are quite wide and flat which makes them quite awkard to do the paddle move. There are cheaper sets and more expencive sets that are easier to do the paddle move with. If you are looking for a good set of color changing knives I'd suggest getting a Mogar's Set. Though they are a bit expencive they are well worth it.
Message: Posted by: CardFan (Jun 20, 2003 04:41AM)
I must quite agree with you. The Blade is a bit wide, but if you keep working the move will come easily. These knive need a bit more focus than other ones but it's worth it regarding the final effect wich I think is neat.
Message: Posted by: eddieloughran (Jun 20, 2003 09:56AM)
Hi,
I bought these knifes off Daryl three years ago and found, as has been said that they are very difficult to turn between thumb and forefinger. Several friends have tried to use them but have given up and on other threads I have advised trying a different style.
But
They are flat knifes with transparent plastic over, what seems like coloured paper. This means that they can be viewed from the side without showing two colours. The routine is very good too.
I bought a different, better set four months ago but don`t use them as the curved backs flash.
I didn`t say earlier that I cound not use the Daryl ones. I can. It`s just a question of practice and getting them in the right place on the hand. There are more ways of turning them than between thumb and first finger too.
I don`t think now that these knifes are as bad as I did earlier but try to have a practice before buying.
Eddie
Message: Posted by: Eric Grossman (Jun 20, 2003 10:40AM)
I use Daryl's set, and to great effect. With a few subtle changes, I think I have a great routine.
The knives are more difficult to use, but with practice that can be fixed. The construction of the knives, helps to sell the effect, as eddieloughran stated in his post.
Another thing to note, is that they look more like the type of pocket knife that someone would have in there house. I don't think this is true of most color changing knives.
Of course these are not the only good knives out there, but I really like them.

Eric Grossman
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jun 20, 2003 11:36AM)
I have small hands and it took me some time to master using Daryl’s knives. I was used to handling the old Endaro set and the Scotty York set so Daryl’s felt odd in my hands. However, they can be mastered! I find that if I haven’t performed with the set that I have to warm-up (do the moves with both hands) a bit before actually performing the routine.

Daryl’s routine is a good one and I use it often.
Message: Posted by: CardFan (Jun 20, 2003 05:03PM)
Yes Harry is right, it is definitely a set with wich you need to warm-up before using.
Message: Posted by: marko (Jun 20, 2003 06:09PM)
I've never performed or seen any variation of this effect (not a fan of paddle tricks) so I have to ask - What is the motivation for the knives changing color? Why knives? Just curious.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jun 20, 2003 07:43PM)
Whit Haydns Knives to me are the best, they are slim and there's a smooth side and a rough side it is eazy to tell them apart when the knives are in your pocket.
check out his video( Intricate webb of deception)
he has a very nicd routine/
vinny
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Jun 21, 2003 03:04AM)
Great routine .... I have to say that the knives proper aren't for workers though.

Daryl doesn't often release stuff that is anything less than stellar - he did with these knives though.
Message: Posted by: CardFan (Jun 21, 2003 06:36AM)
Marko, you must get a juan Tamariz video and watch him perform with the knives, then you will know why this is really a cool type of routine. Bye.
Message: Posted by: purpulhaze (Jun 21, 2003 10:25AM)
I just wanted to mention that you can get the same effect with the Mogar Knives. I'm not sure but I think that Mogar is the one who came up with the knife changing colors partially.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jun 21, 2003 10:43AM)
Marco asks for the reason for color changing knives? Well historically, there was a time (in the USA at least) when men carried pocketknives (and wore hats and carried pocket handkerchief’s, and actually had change in their pockets).

That is to say, the pocketknife was fairly commonplace. Since it was so commonplace it came the target for doing a magic trick. Ta-Da! The Color Changing Knives! They have been popular since the late 1930’s (perhaps earlier, I just don’t have an earlier reference than 1933)!

Pocketknives, handkerchiefs, silver dollars and half dollars, fedoras, cigarette cases, and pocket watches are no longer part of everyday attire. Yet magicians still do tricks with some of them.

But then playing cards are no longer the “norm” for homes (None of my friends or acquaintances have a deck of any kind in their homes! I have yet to be able to perform a card trick with a borrowed deck, even a dog-eared deck, in any home I have visited over the past three years!), and who ever saw a little red sponge ball in the wild? If we were limited to commonplace items what would we be doing magic with?

Vinny is right-on about the Whit Hayden routine and the Mogar knives Whit uses. It is a very strong routine and the knives are arguably the best being made right now today.

Joe Mogar will even make the knives needed for the Juan Tamariz routine (the killer routine that CardFan mentions). Check out Joe Mogar’s web site for his great knife products.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Jun 24, 2003 05:50PM)
Not to beat a dead-horse, but I agree with the same comments. Daryl's routine is brilliant and very commercial (add some touches of your own and you've got a real winner),but the knives are less than satisfactory.

Perhaps Whit Haydn can create a similar set with similar attributes that make his knives so pleasant to work with.

- Jared
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jun 24, 2003 05:55PM)
If you know the Daryl routine and have a set of his knives then you know that you can make your own knives.

I have an old set of inexpensive Enadardo knives. I simply bought some white and some black fingernail polish and painted the knives gimmick them. I mixed some white and black together for gray and made the necessary fingerprint at the appropriate place. Viola’! A Daryl set in Black/White with gray kicker. And all for less than $10.00!!!
Message: Posted by: NJJ (Jun 24, 2003 06:02PM)
[quote]
On 2003-06-21 11:43, Harry Murphy wrote:
Marco asks for the reason for color changing knives? Well historically, there was a time (in the USA at least) when men carried pocketknives (and wore hats and carried pocket handkerchief’s, and actually had change in their pockets).

That is to say, the pocketknife was fairly commonplace. Since it was so commonplace it came the target for doing a magic trick. Ta-Da! The Color Changing Knives! They have been popular since the late 1930’s (perhaps earlier, I just don’t have an earlier reference than 1933)!

Pocketknives, handkerchiefs, silver dollars and half dollars, fedoras, cigarette cases, and pocket watches are no longer part of everyday attire. Yet magicians still do tricks with some of them.

But then playing cards are no longer the “norm” for homes (None of my friends or acquaintances have a deck of any kind in their homes! I have yet to be able to perform a card trick with a borrowed deck, even a dog-eared deck, in any home I have visited over the past three years!), and who ever saw a little red sponge ball in the wild? If we were limited to commonplace items what would we be doing magic with?

Vinny is right-on about the Whit Hayden routine and the Mogar knives Whit uses. It is a very strong routine and the knives are arguably the best being made right now today.

Joe Mogar will even make the knives needed for the Juan Tamariz routine (the killer routine that CardFan mentions). Check out Joe Mogar’s web site for his great knife products.

[/quote]

I think that the fact that cards are mostly found in casinos these days makes them all the more mysterious.

I still giggle when I read a trick that says "use a borrowed deck"! Only magicians are silly enough to carry around a deck of cards with them all the time.

On an interesting note, I had to get special permission to carry my knives around with me. In Australia (or at least Canberra) it is illegal to carry around a knife that you don't have a special use for.

Maybe a good plot would be using red and white knives and try and remove the bloodstains!
Message: Posted by: Evan Williams (Jun 24, 2003 08:08PM)
Yes, they are way to wide for me and I stick to regular sized ones.
Message: Posted by: ScottSullivan (Jun 25, 2003 01:04PM)
I hadn't done the paddle move for years before I got Daryl's knife set so I had to re-learn it with those props and that may actually have made it easier for me but I think that, with practice, you'll get it too. I use my first and middle fingers instead of just my first finger and I find that better facilitates the move with the wider knives. The fact that the backs don't flash the other color is, I think, worth the trouble.
Message: Posted by: lemagician (Jun 25, 2003 01:37PM)
Buy fooler dooler 1.

He shows it all there.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jun 26, 2003 12:11AM)
Just to add to the threads an english magican Steven Tucker had a very nice color changing knife routine that he had on video in the early to mid 80s. the name of the video escapes me. In my opinion his routine was much stronger than Daryls or Bill Malones routine . don't get me wrong both of there routines are excellent also. I have not seen the Tamariz routine .
vimnny
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jun 26, 2003 12:32PM)
The best way to handle wide knives (and do the turnover moves) is to hold them loosely... a tight grip makes it more difficult.

Hey, I can to the paddle move with a rat trap!
:bigdance:
Message: Posted by: ritty360 (Jun 26, 2003 02:07PM)
Pete,

I agree! The looser grip allows for more comfort and also makes the move look nicer. I don't own Daryl's set but I have played with it. I had no problem with the move. It is a simple matter of remembering that you are jsut turning your hand over. I do it so much that it find myself doing it all the time. I can do it with a steak knife now.
Message: Posted by: jmagic (Jun 26, 2003 07:00PM)
For those of you who like the Daryl Routine,but would like to have top quality knives to work with. Please check out Mogars New Perfect Knife Set. It is a 2 knife set. one is White/Red and the other is White with 1/2 White and 1/2 Red on the other side. These knives are also constructed with clear sides to make the workings much easier when working for people who are sitting at a table. The set is $45.00 and can be seen at http://www.magic-stars.com I will be happy to answer any questions about the knives.
Message: Posted by: dgiancaspro (Jun 29, 2003 11:53AM)
[quote]
Hey, I can to the paddle move with a rat trap!
:bigdance:
[/quote]
I'd love to hear your patter for that trick !
How does it play in resuraunts! :rotf:
Message: Posted by: sleightofhand1 (Jul 1, 2003 11:45PM)
I like Daryl's routine too, but have found the knives just to big, the Mogar knives I believe are the ones I will be buying very soon..
Message: Posted by: ullig (Jul 2, 2003 07:48AM)
If you own the Daryl knives and actually have problems with the paddle move go to http://www.wolfsmagic.com/Tips.htm
and have a look on the video of Chance's alternate handling. It will also work fine with the knives. By the way: Chance's paddle trick "Shattered" is worth every cent!
For those of you who are going to buy a knive set with a visual color change - spend the additional 10 $ to get the Mogar Perfect Knives as stated by Jmagic. The Daryl knives have dyed paper layers underneath the clear plastic handles and I wonder how they would look if they would get wet or sweaty. In addition the blades are not made of stainless steel and tend to corrode.
Ulli
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jul 6, 2003 06:13PM)
Joe Mogar has a new set of knives that are made just like Daryl's, with the clear tops to prevents flashing from the sides. I'll post a review here as soon as I get them.

If you don't know, Joe makes beautiful knives. He makes the Whit Haydn set that is so popular.

Ron Reid
Message: Posted by: D J Hawkins (Jul 7, 2003 04:57PM)
Just recieved a Mogar "perfect" set. They are beatiful and handle like a dream. Anyone want to buy a set of Daryl knives????

Dave
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jul 12, 2003 10:27PM)
I, too, just received my set of Joe Mogar "Perfect" knives and they are terrific! They're red and white with the clear plastic top just like Daryl's, so flashing is reduced. The only real difference is on the half-and-half knive: There's no fingerprint smudge between the two colors. But, man, do they handle nicely!

When I ordered them from Joe, he said he decided to manufacture them because he was receiving so many requests from people to make a set like Daryl's.

I think the cost is about $50.00 or slightly less. Really nice!

Ron Reid
Message: Posted by: Peter Marucci (Jul 13, 2003 04:37AM)
Harry Murphy writes: "Marco asks for the reason for color changing knives?" and then points out that, at one time, people carried pocket knives, along with walking sticks, pocket handkerchiefs, pocket watches, and they worse fedoras, vests, and spats!

But they don't any more.

So why are magicians STILL doing tricks with pocket knives? There may be routines with them that are wonderful; but the fact remains that doing ANYTHING with such a dated piece of material is ludicrous!

Magicians still do the dancing cane! But who carried a walking stick these days? Certainly not the twenty-somethings that you see on stage with them! A pool cue? Okay. A broom? Okay. But a walking stick? I don't think so!

If magic is to ever be anything but a third-rate entertainment, magicians have GOT to get with the times.

That doesn't mean throwing out all the old stuff -- just throwing out all the old, BAD stuff!

And if you don't think the color-changing POCKET KNIVES fall into that category then you are a real magician: You have managed to fool yourself!
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Jul 13, 2003 09:02AM)
Peter:

I've always carried a pocket knife with me. So, does it make sense for me to do this routine?

Ron Reid
Message: Posted by: Futureal (Jul 24, 2003 05:39AM)
People don't carry sponge balls, decks of cards, three different lengths of rope, or paddles with "The End" written on them either Peter, yet I believe you use all three in your table hopping shows.

Something to think about.
Message: Posted by: ixnay66 (Jul 25, 2003 09:06AM)
Good point Futureal. I don't think I've EVER walked around with 3 different lengths of rope in my pocket. What would I ever use those for??? A pocket knife, on the other hand, has come quite in handy in more then a few instances. What was the term you used? "Third-rate entertainment." I'm afraid your logic has just turned around and bit you on your behind Peter.
Message: Posted by: vinsmagic (Jul 25, 2003 09:57PM)
PETA_PETA PETA My impersonation of Betty Davis. Yes, she's passe but she will always be one of the greatest actresses of our time.
Just like the color changing knives, the cups and balls, the linking rings, cutting a woman in half, etc. Yes the time changes but the old great magic lives on.
vinny
Message: Posted by: CardFan (Aug 13, 2003 04:33PM)
Indeed, I always enjoy seeing these routines well performed. And you can earn your life with the cups and balls alone.
Message: Posted by: Alan Wheeler (Aug 14, 2003 10:56AM)
Still, Peter Marucci makes a good point in that we can be concious of how well our props and presentations fit our environment and times. His idea of a dancing pool cue to replace the plastic black cane with white tips is awesome!

Back to the main point of the thread: recently, even after reading all these posts, I took the minority report and decided to purchase the Daryl Color Changing Knives. The Magic Warehouse had stopped carrying them because of so many complaints about the width and difficulty of doing the paddle move. Even in the face of that I ordered a set.
The knives do indeed require special handling and sometimes a warm-up earlier in the day of performance, but they do work, the red and yellow colors are excellent, and the finger print smudge finale is fun.
Having learned the routine from Daryl's video also helped.

alleycat :kitty:

P.S. Does anyone know how to get corrosion off non-stainless steel blades?
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Aug 14, 2003 02:19PM)
Are Daryl's knives not stainless steel?
Message: Posted by: John Clarkson (Aug 14, 2003 03:33PM)
Peter, your general point is well-taken, but I think there is still life in color-changing knives. You just have to provide the context for introducing a knife. I use them all the time, but here's how:

During my ambitious card set, I use "That Old Yarn". I hold the yarn and ask the spectator to trim it (handing them an ungaffed pocket knife). Now the knife has been introduced. It has a reason. It has even been (passively) inspected. After the yarn has been cut, the knife is closed and put to the side of my working surface. Later, as I put the knife away, I fiddle with it and go into a color-changing (transposition) routine a la Johnny Thompson. By the way, I use a custom made set that Joe Mogar put together for me. The man's workmanship is flawless.

I suppose, if I were truly modern, I could do color-changing solar-powered electric clippers, but the knife takes up less room in my pocket, and gets the job done!

:nose:
Message: Posted by: Alan Wheeler (Aug 23, 2003 02:53PM)
Whit Haydn: Yes, I was alluding to the fact that the Daryl knife blades are not stainless steel. And I would REALLY like to know a good way to clean them up.

John Clarkson: Good idea for logically bringing in (not just "ringing in") the prop.

One more note on the color-changing knives as props in general: these are no longer good impromptu props for carrying around airports in the US. They will be taken away from you, even if they are inside carry-on baggage, and you will be out the $10, $27, or $50 (depending on the set) you spent on them. My wife even had a little pair of finger-nail scissors taken away from her at the airport! Just a footnote...

alleycat :kitty:
Message: Posted by: Review King (Aug 28, 2003 03:44PM)
Good point alleycat! Times have changed. I no longer use fire, knives, bang gun, etc. out in public. Private party it's OK.

Chris

:pirate:
Message: Posted by: wcb39 (Sep 2, 2003 06:39PM)
In my experience narrower is better. The classics, like the original Merrills and the Sanders, in my humble opinion can't be beat.

Daryl's routine is wonderful, but man it's like doing a paddle move with a two by four. (;-)
Message: Posted by: pyromagician (Sep 2, 2003 06:43PM)
There is a good routine on one of Bill Malone's [i]On the Loose[/i] videos. It will give you some good ideas
Hope this helps someone out there. :dizzy:
Gary
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 11, 2003 01:35PM)
Wow,

Am I glad I stumbled on this thread! I've been doing the color-changing knife since my 20's (I'm 48 now)!

I have the Mogar Miracle-Plus Four Knife Set. The story goes as follows:

Quite a while back, I received a gift from a fellow magi called, "Mogar's Miracle-Plus Four Knife Routine". It came in a manila envelope, with a vinyl 6-pocket case, four beautiful knives, and a three-pocket holder. In the package was a page to order additional single-color knives, and double color knives.

After seeing their website, I was shocked to see how expensive they are! I had no idea they were that much, as they were a gift, and have been my favorite color-changing knife set to date.

I hoped to get a few single color, 3-inch knives to be able to hand out for inspection, but sadly, I'm on a limited income, and could not afford that kind of luxury.

I guess it's not that important to hand them out, but I always get a negative reaction, "Oh, they're trick knives, ho hum..."

I've seen Daryl's knives, and was not impressed. There's also a set of mini "Swiss Army" knives that are pretty cool, but the Mogar set has me spoiled.

Thanks for mentioning the restrictive times we live in as well, as I've (mistakenly) carried these with me to show at work, and was scolded quite openly about carrying "weapons" to the office. I laughed to tears, but after I thought about it... :verysad: times have changed.

Very good topic, folks!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Jeff Haas (Oct 8, 2003 12:27PM)
There are still some people who carry pocket knives with them, but they're usually people who have a need for them...such as construction workers or repairmen. And these days, it's more likely to be a Leatherman tool instead of just a pocket knife.

Jeff
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Oct 10, 2003 12:58PM)
:idea:

Uhh....hmmmm...

How about a color-changing LEATHERMAN TOOL!!!

Talk about getting with the times!

Silver to Gold to Black Anodized...

I wonder what Mogar would think of THAT idea? :goof:

Doug
Message: Posted by: bunkyhenry (Nov 8, 2003 01:19PM)
John Clarkson wrote...

[quote]...your general point is well-taken, but I think there is still life in color-changing knives. You just have to provide the context for introducing a knife. I use them all the time...here's how:...[/quote]

How true!

A while back I posted a request for an effect using a pocketknife. I close with a bill to lemon and the knife is NEEDED to cut the lemon. I wanted an effect before the bill to lemon to introduce the knife. Folks on the board introduced me to color changing knives and I must say, saved me loads of time in shopping. I went straight to Joe Moger and was hooked up big time. The routine is great and I use it. But it is SO good that people insist that the knife is gimmicked, even though they can inspect it freely. So now I need an effect before the CCK's to introduce the knife earlier. Can't use cards as they have been put away at this point in the performance. Any ideas for routines which use a knife? If the knife is just used to cut something that is ok. Tricks that use a knife to cut something, anyone?
Message: Posted by: mecki (Nov 9, 2003 12:31PM)
I first hand out a regular knife and let the spectator stab into the deck for a free (?) selection of a card. I then switch it out for the gimmicked knife (simply by putting it into my pocket, taking it out again and placing it on the table). I go on with some card tricks and then into Daryl´s Routine (which I changed a lot to accustom it to my style).

So, a member of the audience has had the knife in his/her hand, they are "examined" without any direct mention of the fact, which would be suspicious.

I have used the Daryl-set a lot and keep stumbling over one problem: People (in Austria, at least) very often think, that the knives are gimmicked like these cheap novelty - colour changing lighters which change colour when you rub them. It is easy, to let people rub for five minutes, to cancel this possibility out. But it destroys my tight time-schedule, when I do table hopping for large audiences.
Message: Posted by: Johnnymysto (Nov 12, 2003 10:01AM)
I don't see any problem at all with using pocketknives for magic. Everyone knows what a pocketknife is, and there are still a lot of people who carry one.

My question is, does the paddle move fool people with a pocketknife? The blade switches sides during the move, which would seem to tip the spectator off to something going on. I guess it's nothing to worry about since the effect has been around for so long, but still....
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Nov 14, 2003 03:49AM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-12 11:01, Johnnymysto wrote:
My question is, does the paddle move fool people with a pocketknife? The blade switches sides during the move, which would seem to tip the spectator off to something going on. [/quote]

I mentioned the same thing to Daryl. He told me he never had a problem with it.

I saw him perform it with ease. I know he practiced it a long time. If we practice a lot too, I'm sure we will be able to master his knives like he does. We won't be complaining his knives are too wide.

Always make sure your hands are dry. It makes the grip better.

Daryl's knives aren't supposed to be easy for us anyway. Remember, "He is the magician's magician." :)
Message: Posted by: mecki (Nov 15, 2003 03:20PM)
So the knives are supposed to be difficult to use? I don't believe this.
Daryl is one of my idols and I use the routine very often. For me it works better than the classic versions and it makes more sense with the "misdirection" approach.
But still; the knives are not very practical because they are too flat.
That is why I do not use the normal way of turning them around just by rolling them between my finger and my thumb. Instead, I use a move--which is more like the secret turnover of a business card--to show it blank on both sides. This move is more natural when done with two knives at the same time (at least for me).
If anybody is interested, I will explain it in detail.
Mecki
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Nov 16, 2003 11:35AM)
The knives are a bit harder to use because of the width. I don't think this is a reason to give up doing the routine though. I liked Daryl's routine a lot and if he can do it with some practice then obviously everyone else can. Yet there are some who just gave up but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get it.
Message: Posted by: Marien Hopman (Nov 16, 2003 03:55PM)
O.K....O.K...I don't have a set of Daryl's knives to comment on. However about 30 years ago while attending Abbott's Getogether, a small-time dealer/manufacturer fooled me badly with "Dropout" (a little steel bar with a knob on one end that contains a ball bearing).
I don't remember his name...but boy could he do the paddle move. For those of you who know what "Dropout" is...you know the paddle move is very difficult. This same guy did a colour changing knife routine with knives that were about 6 to 7 inches long. Boy could he handle those knives and do the paddle move. He just told us all to hold them loose and practice, pratice, practice. I never forgot his closing line to this very day. "I CAN DO THE MOVE WITH A CANOE PADDLE!"
No one ever challenged him on it. (Posted this for your interest's sake.)
Marien Hopman
Message: Posted by: DAK (Jan 8, 2004 01:06PM)
In his Fooler Dooler DVD Daryl recommends you do the paddle move at least 100 times in a row to "get it" I have and did, I find no probs with his knives.

Kindest Regards

DAK
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 8, 2004 03:25PM)
[quote]
On 2003-11-08 14:19, bunkyhenry wrote:
John Clarkson wrote...

[quote]...your general point is well-taken, but I think there is still life in color-changing knives. You just have to provide the context for introducing a knife. I use them all the time...here's how:...[/quote]

How true!

A while back I posted a request for an effect using a pocketknife. I close with a bill to lemon and the knife is NEEDED to cut the lemon. I wanted an effect before the bill to lemon to introduce the knife. Folks on the board introduced me to color changing knives and I must say, saved me loads of time in shopping. I went straight to Joe Moger and was hooked up big time. The routine is great and I use it. But it is SO good that people insist that the knife is gimmicked, even though they can inspect it freely. So now I need an effect before the CCK's to introduce the knife earlier. Can't use cards as they have been put away at this point in the performance. Any ideas for routines which use a knife? If the knife is just used to cut something that is ok. Tricks that use a knife to cut something, anyone?

[/quote]

Check out the ending for Three-Card Monte in our book and video, School for Scoundrels Notes on Three-Card Monte called "Knifed!" It is a great ending by Bob Kohler, and it uses a little pocket knife. I use a Mogar knife in the photos and in the video.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 8, 2004 05:14PM)
[quote]
On 2003-07-13 05:37, Peter Marucci wrote:
Harry Murphy writes: "Marco asks for the reason for color changing knives?" and then points out that, at one time, people carried pocket knives, along with walking sticks, pocket handkerchiefs, pocket watches, and they worse fedoras, vests, and spats!

But they don't any more.
[/quote]

That's very interesting. Maybe you need to get out more. I open the routine I do with "May I borrow your knife, please?" About 30% of the time, someone in the small group I am addressing will have one. Another 30% of the time, they will say, "I don't have mine with me."

Some well-dressed executives still wear vests. You can still buy a really nice assortment of them at formal wear shops.

And if you are working in theme parks or for groups that work in costume, such as Victorian groups and cowboy action shootists, you will find all of the above.

So, it's not a hard and fast rule.

Walking sticks are not a general part of formal wear any more, but they are part of dancer's gear. So if you are a dancer, a stick is perfectly acceptable.

Now pardon me, while I get back to my Victrola.
Message: Posted by: Harry Murphy (Jan 8, 2004 06:14PM)
When I was a kid in Texas most of my Dad’s generation carried a pocketknife. I inherited several of his pocketknives when he died. I have never carried a pocketknife even when I lived in Texas and Oklahoma.

I work fairly regularly in bar venues (what would be considered working class or red-neck bars). A couple of years ago I asked the guy’s there to empty their pockets just for a little experiment. Suffice to say none of them carried a pocketknife (although one did have a bullet in his pocket). The only change the guy’s had was the stuff that was left on the table or bar from paying for drinks. It would be left behind when they left (the practice here is to not carry a jumble of lose change in the pocket or a big wad of keys!

I have tried the experiment several times over the past number of months. And even done it at my daytime job (several hundred people in the staff dining room). No one carries a pocketknife. Very few carry change.

If I asked to borrow someone’s knife I would be looked at as if I was from another planet!

But then you don't see rifle racks in the rear of windows of the pick-up here either!

It must be a regional thing.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 8, 2004 07:09PM)
Amazingly enough, most of the people I get the pocketknives from are CEO's of various companies and women!

When you think about it, a pocketknife is a far more common object than a "hot rod" or a paddle. At least people know what they are.

When I go into the routine I do with the knives, I start off with: "May I borrow your pocketknife, please? -- you do have one, don't you? Now I know that some people say 'I don't carry a weapon.' But a knife is not necessarily a weapon. It can be a tool. Think about it.

This one here is the one I use around the office. See this blade? It's perfect for opening those Jet-Packs that computer software comes in. So this is a tool, not a weapon. I have a weapon, though. Want to see it? I knew you would say 'yes'-- we're in Texas!

Now I can see that you don't understand the difference between these two knives. This bone handled one is the one that I carry around the office. The pearl handled one is the one I take to church with me. It's the weapon. I'm getting a blank look from you. You still don't understand, do you?

I took a course in comparative religion when I was in college. They told me that at least 50% of the saints used to be Pagan deities. If one of them switches sides during a sermon and comes barreling down the aisle with a pitchfork, I'm prepared. This blade has been treated with garlic AND holy water, so it can handle anything up to AND including a vampire.

I can see you understand now. You must watch Buffy." This little intro gets some nice laughs and the onlookers get to look at the knives. Then I finish the routine, which is a transposition of the tool and the weapon in the spectator's hand. It gets a very good response.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 9, 2004 12:33AM)
Scotty York and Fred Kaps put out about as good a cc knife routine as one could imagine with the knives turning into a roll of candy almost in the spectator's hands... thanks to the "Gypsy Switch."
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 9, 2004 12:48AM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-08 23:54, Bill Palmer wrote:
They told me that at least 50% of the saints used to be Pagan deities. If one of them switches sides during a sermon and comes barreling down the aisle during with a pitchfork, I'm prepared. This blade has been treated with garlic AND holy water, so it can handle anything up to AND including a vampire.
[/quote]

Bill, sometimes I think you are a little strange... ;)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 9, 2004 04:52AM)
[quote]
On 2004-01-09 01:48, whithaydn wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-01-08 23:54, Bill Palmer wrote:
They told me that at least 50% of the saints used to be Pagan deities. If one of them switches sides during a sermon and comes barreling down the aisle during with a pitchfork, I'm prepared. This blade has been treated with garlic AND holy water, so it can handle anything up to AND including a vampire.
[/quote]

Bill, sometimes I think you are a little strange... ;)
[/quote]

No, Whit. I am a LOT strange.

Who will pay to see "normal?" :firedevil:
Message: Posted by: cat26 (Jan 9, 2004 08:07AM)
Daryl's knives are a bit more difficult to "manipulate". However, if you hold them deeper in your hand, at the base of your fingers, the turn over can be accomplished with ease, with the help of your thumb. It's just a matter of adjusting the turn over to suit the props. Cheers... :dance:
Message: Posted by: cigar808 (Feb 22, 2004 12:16PM)
I love the Mogar knives.
Balanced, easy to manipulate, extremely well made,
and they look like a regular knife.
I live in Colorado. A pocketknife is still common around here. No raised eyebrows when it's brought out.

Thank you Whit, I just received "Intricate Web of Distraction". It is the best. Hope I can do it justice.
(When will DVD's be available?)
Message: Posted by: ursusminor (Feb 22, 2004 03:08PM)
I too love Mogar's knives I recently got one of the jigged bone sets, now here's a set of CC-knives that really looks like something from a sports store!
I have read about the Sanders and Merrill knives, but never seen them.
As for Daryl's knives and Routine I like the routine very much, but I had trouble with the knives. Until I read "Ascanio's World of Knives". There, on page 24 was a move, "Passing the knife from hand to hand". My problem was at an end. I found that it was even possible to do it with two knives simultaneously!
Bjørn